Trump's Controversial Attorney General Pick Withdraws

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast
Episode: Trump's Controversial Attorney General Pick Withdraws
Release Date: November 21, 2024
Hosts: Tamara Keith, Susan Davis, Mara Liasson

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Introduction

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, host Tamara Keith, alongside Susan Davis and Mara Liasson, delves into the withdrawal of former Congressman Matt Gaetz from consideration for the position of Attorney General in the Trump administration. The discussion provides an in-depth analysis of the factors leading to Gaetz's withdrawal, the implications for the Trump transition, and the broader context of upcoming cabinet nominations.

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Matt Gaetz Withdraws His Nomination

[01:18] Tamara Keith:
“President elect Donald Trump's pick to be attorney general has withdrawn from consideration. Matt Gaetz, the former congressman from Florida, made the announcement in a statement this afternoon.”

Matt Gaetz announced his withdrawal via X (formerly Twitter), citing that his confirmation process had become a distraction to the critical work of the Trump-Vance transition team.

[01:20] Susan Davis:
“There is no time to waste on a needlessly protracted Washington scuffle.”

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Reasons Behind Gaetz’s Withdrawal

Susan Davis outlines several key reasons for Gaetz's withdrawal:

1. Lack of Legal Experience:
   Gaetz did not possess significant legal credentials necessary for the role of Attorney General, raising concerns about his qualifications.

2. Controversial Reputation:
   Known for his provocative persona on Capitol Hill, Gaetz was not well-regarded among his peers. His role in ousting former Speaker Kevin McCarthy further alienated him from colleagues.

3. Ethics and Legal Investigations:
   Gaetz was under investigation for alleged sex trafficking of a 17-year-old girl. Although the Justice Department did not press charges, the House Ethics Committee continued its probe. Gaetz’s confrontational stance towards the Ethics Committee and his refusal to cooperate exacerbated the situation.

[02:59] Susan Davis:
“Gates had a very confrontational relationship with the Ethics Committee and was refusing to participate in that investigation.”

4. Political Landscape:
   From the moment Trump announced Gaetz as his nominee, it was evident that securing Senate confirmation would be challenging due to the aforementioned issues.

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House Ethics Report and Its Implications

The House Ethics Committee was deadlocked on releasing the report into Gaetz's conduct. While both Republicans and Democrats called for its release, disagreements within the committee prevented consensus.

[03:12] Susan Davis:
“Gates, it seemed to be the clear that he was resigning from Congress to try to stop this report from ever coming out.”

With Gaetz’s resignation, the impetus to release the unfinished Ethics report diminished, as the Senate's need to scrutinize the nominee waned alongside his withdrawal.

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Senate Confirmation Process for Other Nominees

Following Gaetz's withdrawal, attention turned to other controversial cabinet nominees:

1. Pete Hegseth for the Department of Defense
2. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for the Department of Health and Human Services
3. Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence

[07:59] Mara Liasson:
“I think it probably does make it easier. This is a Senate that didn't want to go up against its brand new president of their own party.”

Mara Liasson suggests that Gaetz’s exit may streamline the confirmation process for the remaining nominees, as the Senate may seek to avoid further confrontations with the Trump administration.

[08:36] Susan Davis:
“Some combination of these folks are going to get confirmed. I think each of them presents different comfort levels for different Republican senators.”

Susan Davis emphasizes that while each nominee has varying degrees of support among Republican senators, the overarching trend indicates a probable confirmation to maintain party cohesion.

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Potential Impact on Trump's Transition

The withdrawal of Gaetz reflects the broader dynamics within the Republican Party and the Trump administration's influence over the nomination process.

[05:05] Susan Davis:
“The potential for confrontation here is still very, very real.”

Despite Gaetz’s withdrawal, tensions remain high as Trump continues to push for nominees aligned with his vision, potentially leading to future conflicts within the party.

[09:58] Mara Liasson:
“If he wants to use the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies, which he has said many times he does, I expect that he will get somebody who can pass the Senate that will do that.”

Mara Liasson predicts that the next Attorney General will likely align closely with Trump’s objectives, particularly regarding the use of the Department of Justice in political matters.

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Future of Matt Gaetz

Discussions also touched upon Matt Gaetz's future post-withdrawal:

[11:11] Mara Liasson:
“What is next for Matt Gates?”

Susan Davis responds by outlining the improbability of Gaetz rejoining Congress, given his efforts to suppress the Ethics report and the potential reignition of investigations.

[11:21] Susan Davis:
“Considering how hard he's worked to keep that report out of the public eye, that seems unlikely at this moment.”

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with an analysis of the ongoing challenges within the Trump transition, highlighting the delicate balance the Senate must maintain in confirming nominees while navigating internal party dynamics and ethical considerations.

[12:00] Tamara Keith:
“And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.”

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Notable Quotes

• Susan Davis [02:59]:
  “Gates had a very confrontational relationship with the Ethics Committee and was refusing to participate in that investigation.”

• Mara Liasson [07:59]:
  “I think it probably does make it easier. This is a Senate that didn't want to go up against its brand new president of their own party.”

• Mara Liasson [09:58]:
  “If he wants to use the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies, which he has said many times he does, I expect that he will get somebody who can pass the Senate that will do that.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the complexities surrounding Matt Gaetz’s withdrawal as Attorney General nominee, the implications for the Trump administration’s cabinet selections, and the broader political landscape within the Senate and the Republican Party.

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Transcript

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[Wes and Lex]

Hi, this is Wes and Lex in New York. And we're here with our three week old daughter, Mara, whose name was inspired by Mara Liasson. We hope our daughter grows up to be smart, hardworking, independent and with a great voice for radio, just like her namesake, Mara Liasson and all the great journalists at NPR.

[Tamara Keith]

This podcast was recorded at 1:47pm on Thursday, November 21st.

[Wes and Lex]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but we'll still be here with little Mara listening to grown up Mara on the NPR Politics podcast. Okay, here's the show.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, I have chills.

[Mara Liasson]

Mara, that's so nice.

[Susan Davis]

I'm kveling a finer compliment. I have never heard that was so lovely.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh my gosh, let's just stop here.

[Mara Liasson]

And now I can retire.

[Tamara Keith]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Susan Davis]

I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Mara Liasson]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[Tamara Keith]

And President elect Donald Trump's pick to be attorney general has withdrawn from consideration. Matt Gaetz, the former congressman from Florida, made the announcement in a statement this afternoon. He posted on X, formerly Twitter, that quote, it is clear that my confirmation was unfairly becoming a distraction to the critical work of the Trump Vance transition. There is no time to waste on a needlessly protracted Washington scuffle. Sue, let's start here. Why was Gaetz's nomination, in his words, a distract.

[Susan Davis]

Okay, there's a lot. So I think we should start from the minimally controversial and we'll move up, I think one, there was questions about his qualifications and his legal resume. He didn't have much legal experience to be the chief law enforcement officer of the country. Two, you know, he's been this sort of outlandish, provocative personality on Capitol Hill, not particularly popular among his colleagues. He was a bleeding figure who helped oust former Speaker Kevin McCarthy. And then to the more controversial, he was once the subject of a federal investigation into alleged sex trafficking of a 17 year old girl. The Justice Department ended that probe last year. They ultimately decided not to bring charges against him. But that didn't take away from a House ethics committee that had had an ongoing investigation into Gates for those very allegations because sometimes things can be unethical. Even if they weren't Illegal. And Gates had had a very confrontational relationship with the Ethics Committee and was refusing to participate in that investigation. So there was a lot there. I think from the minute that Donald Trump announced that Gates was his nominee, it was very clear that at a minimum, this was gonna be an uphill battle for confirmation in the Senate.

[Tamara Keith]

And that House Ethics report, both Republicans and Democrats alike were calling for it to be released. However, there was pretty strong disagreement on the Ethics Committee itself about what should happen.

[Susan Davis]

Look, there was a deadlock on this. Historically, when a member of Congress resigns from the House or Senate, the Ethics committees no longer have jurisdiction over them. Again, they're not legal body. It's just sort of an internal HR in a sort of ways for Congress. And Gates, it seemed to be the clear that he was resigning from Congress to try to stop this report from ever coming out. Could they still release it? There's probably arguably a way, but probably not. I mean, once you're out of the running here, I think that the pressure for the public right to know, or for the Senate's right to know what was in this unfinished report sort of fades away. Much like Gates himself, if he's no longer up for nomination, then I think the House would feel less compelled to force a vote to release an unfinished report that would probably break with precedent in the House prior to this. Yeah.

[Tamara Keith]

Mara, just yesterday, Gaetz met with Republican members of the Senate. He was going around with JD Vance, the incoming vice president, to lobby them to confirm him early next year. Did those meetings go less well yesterday than they let on?

[Mara Liasson]

Well, usually when a nominee drops out, it's because he's not making any headway, he's not getting more votes. And it sounds like the Vanson Gates show wasn't getting a lot of supporters. But I think that what this means politically is that Donald Trump had a real take it or leave it approach to sending nominees to the Senate. He said, you either vote for them or I'm going to push them through in recess appointments. And he had almost total control over the Republican Party. And I'm actually surprised about this because I thought this was almost like a test for Republican senators to see if they were willing to defy him. And instead, this is almost a normal situation. When there's a nominee that's as unpopular as Gates, they often don't make it.

[Susan Davis]

And look, Gates is not the only nominee who is facing a difficult path in the Senate. Susan Collins, the Republican Senator from Maine, told our colleague Claudia Griselles today that Gates was the worst of Trump's nominees, he was the most problematic, but he's not the only one. And so this pressure test between Trump and the Senate, I think is still very much real. And I think the question is if Trump is like, okay, you got Gates, I'm not going to push with him, but the rest of them, you really better do it. And so I think the potential for confrontation here is still very, very real.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. So Trump did put out a message on Truth Social. He said, I greatly appreciate the recent efforts of Matt Gaetz in seeking approval to be attorney general. He was doing very well, but at the same time did not want to be a distraction for the administration for which he has much respect. Matt has a wonderful future, and I look forward to watching all of the great things he will do. Exclamation point. Okay, let's take a break. More in a moment.

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[Tamara Keith]

And we're back. And I wanna talk about whether what happened with Matt Gaetz may be an indication of larger issues facing the Trump transition. Mara, there have been four cabinet picks announced by Trump already who are widely seen as controversial or tough to confirm. There was Gaetz, and now he's out of the picture. But does that make it potentially easier for the Senate to confirm the other three. That's Pete Hegseth at the Department of DEF, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. At the Department of Health and Human Services, and Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence.

[Mara Liasson]

I think it probably does make it easier. This is a Senate that didn't want to go up against its brand new president of their own party. And I think that it's going to be very hard to have another defeat for these important nominations. I really do. Now, there is a lot of concern about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. At Health and Human Services, certainly Tulsi Gabbard, who has said nice things about Vladimir Putin for her to be the Director of National Intelligence. And I don't know. I want to know what sue thinks here. Does the Senate have an appetite to do this again to Donald Trump?

[Susan Davis]

That's a great question. I think that those three nominees are likely the ones that the focus is going to go to next. I would make this note that John Barrasso, who's the incoming number two Senate Republican, he's going to be a whip in the new Congress, put out a statement this morning saying Hegseth has his support and he expects a quick and early vote in January for him, which is very typical for national security nominees. So you do sort of see the leadership of the party moving in favor of confirming someone like Hegseth. But yeah, the bigger point is that like some combination of these folks are going to get confirmed. I think each of them presents different comfort levels for different Republican senators. But I don't think there is broad appetite to just be seen as dismissing out of hand a lot of Donald Trump's nomination, especially because, look, Donald Trump ran a campaign in which he was going to run a different kind of government with a different kind of people. And while they may shake the sensibilities of the quote, unquote, Washington elite, I think that a lot of Donald Trump supporters look at folks like this and think exactly like this is what we want, like change up the people and the players who run government because we want change. And I think senators, even if they don't particularly love these individual nominees, are recognizing that the politics certainly within the party may not play to their favor to be seen as going against Donald Trump in building out the cabinet that he wants to have.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mara Liasson]

And don't forget the agenda hasn't changed. He's going to get somebody else to run the Department of Justice and perhaps do exactly what Matt Gaetz would have done in a maybe in a more sober, less flashy way. But if he wants to use the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies, which he has said many times he does, I expect that he will get somebody who can pass the Senate that will do that.

[Tamara Keith]

Do we have any sense of who that could be?

[Susan Davis]

There's been some speculation in the Senate today. Our colleagues who are up there, a couple of them heard from senators, the name Ken Paxton, who's the attorney general of the state of Texas, that's somebody who could probably get through. But I think it's pretty clear that Donald Trump hasn't been asking senators for their input on a lot of these. The thing we do know is that Donald Trump cares deeply about the Justice Department and thinks that there is corruption at its core. And he wants a change agent, and he wants someone who agrees with him on that thesis, and he wants someone who's going to sort of uproot the, the place and fix it up in his mind. So I think it's going to continue to potentially be someone who's either seen as an outsider, seen as a Trump loyalist, seen as someone who is willing to sort of go up against the government, or some combination of those three things. I don't think it's going to be an easy, obvious, you know, lifelong government veteran type of pick.

[Mara Liasson]

What is next for Matt Gates? Sue? I mean, maybe he could get a job that doesn't need confirmation, like work in the White House. Or would he unresign his House seat? Is that possible?

[Susan Davis]

Technically, it's possible he could not unresign and rejoin this Congress, which runs until January 3rd. But in his resignation letter, he said it was not his intention to take the oath of office on January 3rd. Remember, he still won that election in November. He could technically still join the next Congress as a member. But think about this. It would reignite that Ethics Committee investigation and that Ethics Committee report would be back on the table. So I think considering how hard he's worked to keep that report out of the public eye, that that seems unlikely at this moment.

[Mara Liasson]

All right.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, that is all for today. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Susan Davis]

I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Mara Liasson]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[Tamara Keith]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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These metals that are going to be dig out of our ocean will not benefit anyone from it.

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