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- [00:00]
Tony
Hello, this is Tony recording from Jakarta, Indonesia, where I moved a couple months ago to be with my future wife and her family.
- [00:09]
Asma Khalid
This podcast was recorded at 12:09pm Eastern Time on Friday, February 14, Valentine's Day of 2025.
- [00:20]
Tony
Some things may have changed by the time you listen to this podcast, but hopefully by then I will be a married man and I will still be keeping up with American politics by listening to npr.
- [00:35]
Tamara Keith
Well, congratulations. Congratulations, and thank you for listening.
- [00:39]
Asma Khalid
Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
- [00:43]
Tamara Keith
I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.
- [00:46]
Carrie Johnson
And I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department.
- [00:49]
Asma Khalid
And since it is Friday and since we have a lot of news to cover, we are bringing you our classic Friday political roundup when we're going to start with news out of New York. The city's embattled Democratic mayor, Eric Adams, got a lifeline from the Trump administration. Adams was facing these federal corruption charges, but this week the Justice Department told federal prosecutors to drop the charges. The lead prosecutor on the case resigned rather than obey that order. And last night, a number of other officials at the Justice Department also resigned out of protest. Carrie, there is so much to talk about there in those resignations. But before we dive into the legal ramifications here, can we rewind and have you just remind us what Eric Adams was accused of doing?
- [01:36]
Carrie Johnson
Yeah. Adams faces a number of very serious federal criminal charges like conspiracy, wire fraud, bribery, allegedly soliciting campaign money from foreign nationals. He's, of course, pleaded not guilty to all those charges and remained on the job where he is to this day.
- [01:53]
Asma Khalid
And given the severity of these charges, why did the Justice Department want the charges to go away?
- [02:00]
Carrie Johnson
What we know about this comes out as a result of letters back and forth between the number two in charge at the Justice Department right now, a guy named Emil Bovey. You may remember him because he was one of Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyers not all that long ago. And prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, those prosecutors in Manhattan had been leading the case against Adams. Bovey basically said the case against Adams was problematic because the charges were brought too close to the election. The idea that Adams had been charged with these very serious offenses meant that he lost a security clearance. So he could not really be in charge in the same way in New York City that he used to be. He couldn't have the kind of sensitive conversations about public safety with people in his own city. And that kept New Yorkers less safe. And he raised some questions about the outgoing U.S. attorney from the Biden administration in some public statements that man had made about Adams and public corruption in the city generally. However, the new U.S. attorney in Manhattan, the woman who has been in charge for three weeks since Donald Trump has been in office, is an exceptionally conservative person. She was a member of the Federalist Society. She clerked for a conservative icon and late Supreme Court Justice, Antonin Scalia. And she suggested in her own blistering letter back to the Justice Department headquarters that there was no good reason to drop this case, that Eric Adams was guilty. In fact, they were considering adding new charges against Eric Adams at the time. They got the directive to drop this case, and she basically refused to do it. She also dropped, in a footnote, one of the most extraordinary bombshells I have ever read in court papers. She said that on January 31, she had a meeting with Eric Adams lawyers and Amel Bovey, the person who's number two in charge of the Justice Department and Eric Adams lawyers, suggested that Adams would cooperate with the Trump administration on get tough immigration enforcement strategies if these charges were dropped. She said that sounded an awful lot like an illegal quid pro quo. And she also said she had one of her staff members take notes at this meeting, which lawyers like to do. And Bovey, the number two at justice, did not want those notes to be taken and then wanted to confiscate those notes at the end of the meeting.
- [04:20]
Asma Khalid
Wow. Tam, I want to bring you into this conversation. What are you hearing from the White House about these allegations?
- [04:27]
Tamara Keith
President Trump was asked about it yesterday.
- [04:29]
Asma Khalid
The U.S. attorney has resigned over the DOJ's request to drop the case into Eric Adams. Did you personally request the Justice Department to drop that case?
- [04:39]
Carrie Johnson
No, I didn't.
- [04:40]
Asma Khalid
I know nothing about it.
- [04:41]
Carrie Johnson
I did not.
- [04:42]
Tamara Keith
And I will note that there was simultaneous translation happening there because he was sitting next to the prime minister of India. Later he comes back and says that U.S. attorney didn't resign. He or she was fired. I guess we should always be cautious in trying to fully understand what the president of the United States is saying. But he certainly seems to be saying, you know, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
- [05:08]
Asma Khalid
Kerry, can you tell us more about the specific people who resigned and why they resigned? Because it wasn't just that one U.S. attorney.
- [05:18]
Carrie Johnson
No. In fact, there are seven resignations now, including one this morning. So Danielle Sassoon, the acting US Attorney in Manhattan, has resigned as of today. A gentleman named Hagan Scotten, a line prosecutor on the Eric Adams case has resigned. He's notable because he earned two Bronze Stars in his military service. He also clerked for Chief Justice John Roberts on the Supreme Court. And his resignation letter is something like I have never seen before. He said, basically, I'm a conservative. I don't have a lot of complaints about this administration. And he can even understand how a president whose background is in business would want to engage in deal making. But he said any assistant U.S. attorney would know that our laws and traditions don't allow using prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials. He said if no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion. But it was never going to be me.
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Deirdre Walsh
Oh, wow.
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Carrie Johnson
That is a throwdown. Moreover, this mess has now migrated from New York, where it started here in Washington. And yesterday, a bunch of lawyers in the Public Integrity Unit in Washington resigned after they were asked to file a motion to dismiss this case. Every single person yesterday who was asked to dismiss this case refused and quit. That's the loudest signal you can find in the law. This is many. Many of my sources, including Republicans and Democrats alike, have been telling me the most serious crisis at the Justice Department since Watergate, and it's not over yet.
- [07:05]
Tamara Keith
The way in which Beauvais wants this dropped is without prejudice, and that's sort of a technical term, but it means that those charges could be brought back later. And on Fox and Friends, you have Mayor Eric Adams sitting next to White House immigration czar Tom Homan. And Steve Doocy, asks one of the hosts. One of the hosts asks Adams. Well, and you kind of have to cooperate because they could always bring the charges back.
- [07:36]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What we need to be clear on, if the mayor of the city of New York is unable to collaborate, deal with intelligence information, sit down with my state and federal agencies and sit down to coordinate for public safety. We're still under the terrorist threat. We still have an illegal gangs in our community that's bringing about destruction that ICE is attempting to weed out. If I can't coordinate that, that's a public safety issue, and we should put public safety first.
- [07:59]
Tamara Keith
This was a very long interview in which they talked about ways in which Eric Adams was cooperating with ice, setting it up so that they could let ICE into Rikers island and talking openly about, well, we've got some other ways we want to cooperate, but we've got to keep it quiet because we have to go around the City Council because the city council wouldn't allow it.
- [08:20]
Carrie Johnson
All these prosecutors are quitting because they say it looks like an illegal deal between the Trump administration and the mayor of New York City, who's under indictment. If the mayor does something the administration wants, they'll back away from this case. And today on the program Fox and Friends, Tom Homan, the immigration czar, basically said, the agreement that we came to was this. And if you don't live up to it, Eric Adams, you're going to have a legal problem on your hands that is not done in the law. That is a very bad look. And it comes after seven people have already resigned over this matter.
- [08:54]
Asma Khalid
Kerry, I hear what you're saying about this potentially not being legal, but is there anyone or anything that can stop this? I mean, it seems like there are really. At least at this point, we've seen no consequences for any of these actions.
- [09:09]
Carrie Johnson
So here's the state of affairs at this moment. Eric Adams is still under indictment. They have not found a human being to move to dismiss this case. And so if Trump administration officials at the Justice Department want this case dismissed, they are either going to have to find somebody to do it or they're going to have to move themselves. And to dismiss the case would require the approval of a judge, Judge Dale Ho, a noted voting rights and civil rights expert on the bench in New York. And Judge Ho may have a lot of questions for the Justice Department about how they are entering into this deal and the reasons why.
- [09:44]
Asma Khalid
All right. Well, a lot to digest there. Carrie, thank you so much for bringing your reporting on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
- [09:50]
Carrie Johnson
Thanks for having me.
- [09:51]
Asma Khalid
All right. Take care. We'll talk to you again soon. And let's take a break. We'll have more in a moment. And we're back. And we're joined now by NPR congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh. Hi there, Deirdre.
- [10:04]
Tamara Keith
Hi, guys.
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Asma Khalid
And thanks for joining us because this week, two of President Trump's, I would say, more controversial nominees for his Cabinet got confirmed. Tulsi Gabbard is now the director of National Intelligence, and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Is now the secretary of Health and Human Services. Deirdre, both of these nominees received, I would say, a fair bit of skepticism from certain Republicans, but ultimately most Republicans fell in line and voted for them. And I want to understand how that happened. And the cynical part of me wonders, like, was the skepticism ever real? So let's start with Gabbard.
- [10:43]
Deirdre Walsh
I mean, I think the skepticism was real for both nominees, but I Also want to make a note that both of these nominees were extremely popular with the MAGA base. Both very well known, both campaigned with Trump, and there was an enormous public pressure campaign to get them through. They had folks at these hearings that were vocal supporters that were there, you know, walking around the halls of Congress. So there was a real sort of lobbying effort directed at 53 Senate Republicans. Obviously, nominees just need a simple majority, but I think part of the campaign was directed at Republicans because they knew they weren't gonna get Democratic votes. But also in both cases, walking away from some of their former public statements and public positions on issues that caused the skepticism among a few Senate Republicans in both cases.
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Asma Khalid
Okay, so as it relates to Gabbard, was there some sort of affirmation she gave that made some of these, let's say, more lukewarm Republicans come on board with her?
- [11:54]
Deirdre Walsh
So there were more than a couple, probably Senate Republicans on the panel that oversaw her nomination, the Intelligence Committee, people like Susan Collins of Maine, Todd Young from Indiana, Senator Moran from Kansas. And some of them centered around Gabbard's previous criticism of a government surveillance program that she, as a former member of Congress, a Democrat, opposed as a presidential candidate, and in, like, conservative podcasts, had criticized and said she wanted it rolled back. This is a program that people on the Intelligence Committee feel is a valuable tool of intelligence agencies. So she changed her position, and she came to the hearing and basically said, now, I do support this 702 authority that's part of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act program. So that was a way that helped her sort of turn the corner on that issue.
- [12:48]
Tamara Keith
And I think that one thing that you mentioned is a theme that we have been coming back to with almost all of the President's more controversial nominees, which is they have changed their positions to get the votes they need to be confirmed. They have said controversial things in public in the past, and they have assured Senators, either in hearings or in private, that that won't be a problem.
- [13:14]
Deirdre Walsh
Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing, just stepping back in terms of the overall debate over the President's nominees for these Cabinet positions, a lot of Senate Republicans sort of have said publicly in hallway interviews, look, I start out as a yes, the President won. The President deserves to install his nominees to run these agencies. That's the bottom line for a lot of Senate Republicans is, you know, he won. We're going to back his people. It does not happen very often that a president's nominee for a Cabinet position gets voted down on the Senate floor. It's been decades. The last time that happened was with Texas Republican Senator John Tower, who was nominated by George H.W. bush to be his defense secretary, 1989. So I think that's what a lot of Senate Republicans go back to.
- [14:05]
Asma Khalid
I also wanna drill down more on the other somewhat controversial pick, I would say, who did get confirmed this week, and that is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. He is now the Health and Human Services head and there was again, some skepticism about him. How did he ultimately get through with broad, I would say, Republican support?
- [14:28]
Deirdre Walsh
I think the big issue that caused skepticism across both Democratic and Republican senators was his previous comments about vaccines. A lot of Republicans straight up said, I don't agree with him. The person who's heading the Health and Human Services Agency, who's not a physician, should be following the science. So when RFK started his rounds in the Senate, he was shouted questions like, do you support the polio vaccine? Sort of an unusual thing to ask a nominee about who's heading the HHS Department. But he made news because he said, yes, I support the polio vaccine, which.
- [15:06]
Asma Khalid
Is important, we should say.
- [15:07]
Tamara Keith
Right.
- [15:08]
Deirdre Walsh
And that was very, very early on. So, like as TAM was talking about, he changed his public position on potential liability, you're saying. Right. But it was in two different forms. Right. In public hearings, he wasn't as cut and dry. In private meetings, Senators said, he assured me he would. So I think that we'll have to see what kinds of actions RFK Jr takes as he's now started this role. But I do think he was wildly popular with the MAGA base. There was a lot of pressure on senators and a lot of the ones who put out statements right before the votes said, I still have reservations, but I believe he will follow his word.
- [15:55]
Asma Khalid
I want to ask you both about a key Republican who did not vote for rfk, nor did he vote for Tulsi Gabbard, and that is the former leader, Mitch McConnell. Explain that to us. Why did he break with his party?
- [16:12]
Deirdre Walsh
I feel like Mitch McConnell is in kind of a YOLO moment in his career. He's no longer the top Senate Republican leader. It is not news that he and President Trump do not get along and have had many famous disagreements over the years. McConnell has made it clear that his legacy going forward is that he is going to continue to push for national security issues that he feels really strongly about. He did not think Tulsi Gabbard was qualified to be the Director of national intelligence on RFK. The reason that McConnell voted no was he noted that he's a polio survivor. And he thought that RFK Jr. Trafficked in conspiracy theories. His statement said something along the lines is he has this record of trafficking in dangerous conspiracy theories and eroding the public's trust. So he couldn't back RFK Jr. To lead. But it's also worth noting that McConnell, he is up for reelection in two years, but he is probably not expected to run for reelection. So he doesn't really have the same political pressure on him because he's kind of free to vote his conscience.
- [17:20]
Tamara Keith
And you know what? He doesn't have the clout he had a year ago or two years ago when he was the leader. This is not the same Mitch McConnell who ultimately voted not to convict President Trump after January 6, despite his extreme concerns about what had happened that day. And so now he's free. But it's, it's a very different time. And he is a much smaller figure in the party because Trump won again, because the Senate is populated with a lot more Senate Republican senators who are in lockstep with President Trump. Caroline Levitt, the press secretary, was asked about McConnell voting against Gabbard. And I just want to read you a quote. She says, I think we're greatly disappointed in any Republican who chooses willfully to vote against the President's exceptionally qualified cabinet nominees and picks to lead his America first administration. The white has been demanding that Republicans stay tough and strong and in lockstep.
- [18:22]
Deirdre Walsh
With the president, Republicans have a bit of a cushion. Right. They have a 53 seat majority. They could lose three votes and have the vice president, J.D. vance, break the tie, which is what happened with Pete Hegseth. So, you know, it wasn't a big surprise that McConnell was a no on some of these people. He's been pretty clearly outspoken. He has voted for the rest of the President's nominees, Right. Like Treasury Secretary, Agriculture Secretary. And he puts out statements praising these nominees. So he's clearly targeting his dissent for the national security sphere and clearly on public health.
- [18:58]
Asma Khalid
All right, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, it is time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And it is time now for our favorite part of the show, Can't Let It Go. That is the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just cannot stop thinking about politics or otherwise. And Tam, why don't you kick it off for us?
- [19:20]
Tamara Keith
Yeah. So what I cannot let go of is Elon Musk's children, primarily his son X, who I think is probably about 4 years old. And he was there in the Oval Office when President Trump and Elon Musk were holding court for more than a half an hour, talking about the work of Doge that is Musk's project, the Department of Government Efficiency. President Trump welcomed the young man and, gosh, like, as a grown adult, sitting still while people talk for 32 minutes would be tough for me.
- [19:54]
Asma Khalid
That's tough.
- [19:55]
Tamara Keith
But so this kid, he yawns, he looks at the ceiling, he sits on the floor. Eventually, Musk lifts the kid up on his shoulders. Then someone asks about a comment President Trump had made about treasuries. And this is a very serious topic. But at this very point, the small child is putting his fingers in Elon Musk's ears.
- [20:20]
Asma Khalid
I will say, Tam, if anyone is going to normalize the idea of having children in public space in this country, it's gonna be men. I mean, look, you know this. Tam knows this. I have, because I perpetually feel guilty about leaving my kids for work, travel. I do bring them along on different things. They have been in green rooms for different television programs. I think that the ide of having kids in public space, to me, maybe this is not the common opinion, but I think it is lovely. I just think it is not normal. And therefore, every time it happens, people are shocked. And it will only become normal once men start doing it, is what I think.
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Deirdre Walsh
I think you're dead on. I mean, I think that had this been, you know, in the female speaker of the House's office, in, you know, the female vice president's office, like, would people have asked questions about, like, where's your babysitter? Why weren't they at childcare? You know, maybe this is the new thing. There aren't that many members on Capitol Hill that I see that bring their kids to meetings, but I see a lot of them bring them to votes during spring break. Their kids are there or on a long weekend when their parents have to work. So, you know, maybe this is opening the door to making it more acceptable.
- [21:40]
Tamara Keith
Asma, what can't you let go of?
- [21:43]
Asma Khalid
So I'm gonna make a total left turn away from politics. And I bring to you all this story I saw this week, which is wild. A man who was apparently swallowed by a humpback whale.
- [21:58]
Tamara Keith
What?
- [21:59]
Asma Khalid
And spit out, like, he survived this process, and his dad actually filmed this. I was also like, whoa, why is.
- [22:07]
Deirdre Walsh
Video evidence for this?
- [22:09]
Asma Khalid
But he got swallowed. And in my, like, research of this, I guess it sort of makes sense, right? Because whales apparently humpback whales, right? They swallow in a lot of water, a lot of food. I like, vaguely remember this from science class. And then they, like spit out a lot of the stuff they don't want. And so in an interview that he gave later with CNN and Espanol, he said that he felt on his face this, like, slimy texture. He saw colors like dark blue and white. Something approaching him from behind and sank me. And he thought he was gonna die? Well, yeah, but then he got out. It all happened around the Strait of Magellan. So apparently be very careful if you take a kayak to the Strait of Magellan.
- [22:51]
Tamara Keith
Oh, my God.
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Deirdre Walsh
I also feel like this is a scene from like Finding Nemo. Wasn't he still?
- [22:56]
Tamara Keith
I'm not going to recover from this. Can't let it go. I'm having trouble over here.
- [23:01]
Asma Khalid
All right, Deirdre, what about you?
- [23:02]
Deirdre Walsh
So the thing I can't let go of is a party that's happening tomorrow. I kind of wish I got invited, but there's this story in the Washington post about this 87 year old man who lives in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. And he went viral because he was hand delivering invitations to his annual winter party to his neighbors. And he went up and there was a ring doorbell video of this new neighbor. And he rings the doorbell and he says, hi, I'm Doug Turner. I live in that house across the street. I'm having a party. So this new neighbor thought this was so cool. Like how many neighbors hand deliver invitations? We live in the age of Texan Evite. So she put the video on TikTok and people went crazy. They're like, this guy is so cool. This is so cute. I want to come to the party. The best part is the invitation. It says, a celebration of winter. 4:00 until the cops arrive.
- [23:58]
Tamara Keith
Oh, my God.
- [23:59]
Deirdre Walsh
And it just says, bring only a smile. And it was such an adorable handwritten invitation. And this woman's TikTok went viral. And all these people wanted to come to Doug's party and they wanted to send things for the party. And so this woman went back to talk to her neighbor Doug to let him know he went viral. And he was like, wow, that's really cool. So now people are sending letters to this P.O. box to talk to Doug. And he said he is a widower. And he started having this annual winter party after his wife died in 2022.
- [24:32]
Asma Khalid
So many.
- [24:33]
Deirdre Walsh
So now he's hoping, he's actually hoping that this starts a trend that people start to have neighborhood parties to get to know their neighbors.
- [24:40]
Carrie Johnson
Better.
- [24:40]
Deirdre Walsh
And handwritten invitations are kind of a cool thing to bring back.
- [24:44]
Asma Khalid
Well, that is a wrap from us for today. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Casey Morell edits this podcast. Our producers are Bria Suggs and Kelly Wessinger. Special thanks to Roberta Rampden. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
- [24:59]
Tamara Keith
I'm Tara Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.
- [25:01]
Deirdre Walsh
I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress.
- [25:03]
Asma Khalid
And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.