Western Allies Formally Recognize A Palestinian State. The U.S. Won't.

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Western Allies Formally Recognize A Palestinian State. The U.S. Won't.
Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts/Guests: Danielle Kurtzleben, Frank Ordonez, Greg Myhre

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Main Theme

This episode examines the diplomatic split between the United States and several of its traditional Western allies, including the UK, Canada, France, and Australia, over the formal recognition of a Palestinian state. The hosts discuss what such recognition means, the practical and symbolic impacts, the US administration's stance, the reactions from Israel and Palestinian groups, and what these moves signal about shifting dynamics in global foreign policy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Recognition Means – and Why Now? (01:05)

• Greg Myhre explains that the US and Israel historically insisted on negotiations to precede recognition of a Palestinian state. These negotiations would decide crucial details—borders, security, the status of Jerusalem.

  "Israel and the US have always said that negotiations must come first... Once you get an agreement and want this grand deal, then the Palestinians would get a state and Israel would have security." — Greg Myhre (01:36)

• Recently, some Western countries are taking the opposite approach: first recognizing a Palestinian state, hoping this symbolic move pushes forward a real solution, even if practical aspects remain unresolved.

• Historical Context: The Oslo Accords in the 1990s attempted to move toward statehood through incremental negotiation—a process that broke down in 2000 and has not recovered since.

2. Symbolism vs. Reality (03:06)

• Although recognition is pointedly symbolic (as a Palestinian state lacks clear borders or a functioning unified government), more than 150 countries now support recognition at least "in principle." Greg notes this paradox:

  “Symbolically, we seem to be getting closer to a Palestinian state than we’ve ever been before... But in practical terms, we seem to be moving further and further away from it.” — Greg Myhre (04:43)

3. US Policy and Presidential Position (03:32, 03:55)

• The Trump administration rejects the European approach, arguing recognition rewards Hamas after the October 7 attacks on Israel, reiterating demand for hostages' release prior to any political process.

  "This is kind of a gift, kind of rewards them for taking hostages... Trump wants the hostages released first, and that is something that this morning he pressed allies to focus on together." — Frank Ordonez (03:55)

• The US maintains its strong, historical alliance with Israel—a position seen under both Trump and previous (Democratic) administrations.

• Trump’s rhetorical stance: despite disagreements with allies, he avoids public confrontations with leaders like the British Prime Minister, suggesting a more diplomatic approach than in his first term.

  "Trump did say that he disagreed with the UK’s decision to recognize a Palestinian state, but he was very clear and very forceful to say that this is one of the very few things that they disagreed on." — Frank Ordonez (07:25)

4. Israel's Response (10:07)

• Israel’s government, led by Benjamin Netanyahu, is adamantly opposed to a Palestinian state under current conditions.
  • They insist negotiations come before recognition—an approach allowing them to “hold all the cards” due to their greater power and on-the-ground control.
  • Netanyahu is now threatening responses, including potentially annexing parts of the West Bank, a step Israel has so far avoided.

  "They always find a reason not to negotiate. This has been, I think, particularly true during the Netanyahu administration... He says flat out now that he won’t allow the creation of a Palestinian state." — Greg Myhre (11:19)

5. Palestinian Perspectives and Challenges (06:35)

• While ordinary Palestinians might welcome international recognition, the Hamas leadership has never accepted Israel's right to exist and is unlikely to embrace recognition deals that include this condition.

  “The underlying assumption is a Palestinian state would be recognized, but it would also recognize the legitimacy of Israel. And that’s something that Hamas has never done.” — Greg Myhre (06:35)

6. US Leverage—and Limits—on Israel (12:14)

• Despite its global influence and historic leverage with Israel, the Trump administration is unlikely to use its power to force a change in Israel’s conduct regarding the war in Gaza.

  • Recent incidents, like an Israeli operation in Qatar, drew only muted admonishments.

  "Trump is only willing to go so far... He was soon defending Israel on opposing Palestinian statehood." — Frank Ordonez (12:44)

  • Netanyahu’s upcoming visit to Washington isn’t expected to be tense; a united front is anticipated.

  "I don’t expect it to be a difficult meeting. I think you’re going to see a lot of camaraderie... particularly on this issue of opposing, you know, statehood of the Palestinians." — Frank Ordonez (13:34)

• Trump administration isn’t focused on postwar resolutions or a two-state solution, as prior US governments had been.

  "Trump and his administration really hasn't been talking about that at all." — Greg Myhre (13:48)

7. A Changing Global Order (15:11)

• The US’s reluctance to lead on issues like Ukraine and Gaza, paired with divergent stances among Western allies, signals a shift in international order.

  • The traditional “post-WWII order led by the United States is breaking down”—more countries are acting independently.
  • Trump's approach to foreign affairs is “very involved, but on his terms... not on multilateral terms, not on European terms.” — Frank Ordonez (16:33)

  "The Trump administration, like other US administrations, Republican and Democratic, has been very strongly supportive of Israel. So that’s not new... But previous administrations have spoken openly about the desire for a two state solution... That’s just not what we’re hearing for the Trump administration." — Greg Myhre (15:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Recognition and Negotiation:

  "First you recognize a Palestinian state, and then you can work out the details later." — Greg Myhre (01:36)

• On International Pressure vs. Reality:

  “We can’t want peace more than the parties themselves. You can’t force-feed it on them.” (Paraphrasing former Secretary of State Jim Baker) — Greg Myhre (05:40)

• On Trump’s Relationship with Allies:

  "...European leaders have learned how to get on Trump’s good side through the use of flattery and gifts, especially very flashy ones like Royal Carriage Rides." — Frank Ordonez (07:55)

• US Global Role Evolves:

  “He wants to be very involved in international affairs... What is very different, though, is that he wants to do it on his terms and not on multilateral terms, not on European terms.” — Frank Ordonez (16:33)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• History and meaning of recognizing a Palestinian state: (01:05–03:23)
• Trump’s position at the UN, criticism of European allies: (03:32–03:55)
• Practical vs. symbolic value of recognition: (04:43–05:47)
• Reasons behind US support for Israel, Trump’s approach: (05:55–07:25)
• Trump’s careful disagreement with European leaders: (07:25–08:28)
• Israel’s response and possible annexation moves: (10:07–12:14)
• Humanitarian crisis in Gaza and US leverage: (12:14–14:34)
• Bigger picture: US’s shifting global leadership role: (15:11–17:32)

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Conclusion

This episode highlights a widening gap between the US and its closest allies on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. While Western partners move to recognize Palestinian statehood, the Trump administration remains firmly aligned with Israel and deeply skeptical that recognition leads to peace, viewing it as rewarding Hamas. The discussion underscores increasingly fractured Western consensus on major foreign policy issues and a US role that is assertive, but less multilateral and more transactional under Trump. The practical value of recognition remains limited amidst ongoing violence and intransigence from both Israeli and Palestinian leaders.

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For listeners seeking a compact but thorough primer on the recognition debate, the US political context, and evolving Western diplomacy, this episode offers succinct explanations and candid analysis from NPR’s top politics and security reporters.

Transcript

[Frank Ordonez]

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[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hi, I'm Caleb. And I'm Ana. And today we're moving from Des Moines, Iowa, to Washington, D.C. so that I can pursue my master's of Arts and security studies. This podcast was recorded at 1:19pm Eastern on September 23. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but we'll still be driving across the country listening to NPR along the way. Enjoy the show.

[Greg Myhre]

Iowans. Do they know what's awaiting them here? I mean, is this a good move? Should we consult with them before they arrive?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hey, you know, listen, I've stuck around here for what, 17 years, so it can't be that bad. Or maybe it's inertia. I don't know. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover the White House.

[Frank Ordonez]

I am Frank Gordonez. I also cover the White House.

[Greg Myhre]

And I'm Greg Myhre. I cover national security.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

And today on the show, the US And a number of its allies are finding themselves increasingly at odds over Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza. In the last several days, some of the U.S. s most traditional allies, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, and Australia, they've all officially recognized a Palestinian state. The US has not. So, Greg, I want to start with you. What does recognizing Palestine as a sovereign state actually mean, practically? Like, what does that entail for the country doing the recognizing and what does it change for Palestinians?

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah. So broadly speaking, Israel and the US have always said that negotiations must come first, that you work out these millions of details. You have to agree on the borders, on security arrangements, on the status of Jerusalem, for example. It's a city that both the Israelis and the Palestinians claim as a capital. And once you get an agreement and want this grand deal, then the Palestinians would get a state and Israel would have security. But since negotiations are just so implausible right now, the notion has kind of been flipped. And we're hearing this from much of the international community, including several additional countries this week. First you recognize a Palestinian state, and then you can work out the details later. Now, Danielle, it's important to remember what happened back in the 1990s, some version of this. With the 1993 Oslo Agreement, President Clinton brought the leaders of Israel and the Palestinians to sign an agreement, and they started to build a Palestinian state The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat had big offices in Ramallah and Gaza. Palestinian security forces were created. A building for a future of Palestinian parliament went up on the edge of East Jerusalem. So they were in the process of building a state, but it still had to be negotiated. Now, of course, that all famously broke down in 2000. We really haven't been very close since then.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

I see. So these countries are theoretically just trying to redo that to make that happen again.

[Greg Myhre]

I would say they're actually taking this sort of opposite approach. Declare a Palestinian state, recognize its existence before it actually exists. In reality, it doesn't yet have borders or many of the other attributes that a typical state would have.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Now, this thing that you're talking about, recognizing a Palestinian state before negotiations, President Trump spoke about this today at the U.N. here's what he said.

[Greg Myhre]

Now, as if to encourage continued conflict, some of this body is seeking to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state. The rewards would be too great for.

[Frank Ordonez]

Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. This would be a reward for these horrible atrocities.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

I want to ask both of you, what do you make of that? Let me start with you, Franco.

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah. I mean, you kind of just heard there that the president is arguing that this is kind of a gift, kind of rewards them for taking hostages. It rewards them for the horrific attack on Israel on October 7th. I mean, Trump wants the hostages released first, and that is something that this morning he pressed allies to focus on together. But Trump's also. Let's remember his allegiance with Netanyahu and Israel. Their bond is very close, even under the most difficult circumstances. I think US Is going to stick with Israel on this issue. And I will say it's not just Trump. I mean, this is something that the Biden administration faced as well. So I do not expect a change in that regard anytime soon.

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah. I would just add that symbolically, we seem to be getting closer to a Palestinian state than we've ever been before. More and more countries now, more than 150 countries, say they support or announce that they would recognize a Palestinian state, at least in principle. But in practical terms, we seem to be moving further and further away from it. This terrible war we're witnessing in Gaza. Israel has a government led by Benjamin Netanyahu that says a Palestinian state is not going to be established. And the strongest Palestinian group is Hamas, which has never said that it would accept an Israeli state permanently in peace next to it. So these groups don't even talk to each other. So the idea that they could sit down, negotiate all of the Very difficult details of statehood is just not even realistic right now. And I'm reminded of former Secretary of State Jim Baker, who served under George H.W. bush, who said, famously, talking about Middle east peace, we can't want peace more than the parties themselves. You can't force feed it on them.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Right. Franco, you've gotten at this a little bit, but I want to ask you point blank, why doesn't the Trump administration join its European allies here?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, like I said, I mean, this is something that the president has made clear that he feels that this would be a gift to Hamas. And also, also, again, I mean, the fact is that Israel and the United States have always been in alliance. And Trump, probably more than any recent president, has been even closer to the Israeli government. Ever since the beginning of the administration, Trump has been very clear on his support for Netanyahu, Netanyahu's government, I mean, this is a position that Republicans in large part as well, are very much aligned with Israel and use that as a political wedge issue as well.

[Greg Myhre]

It's not clear how Palestinians in general would certainly welcome the recognition of a Palestinian state, but the underlying assumption is a Palestinian state would be recognized, but it would also recognize the legitimacy of Israel. And that's something that Hamas has never done. So it's not clear that Hamas would fully embrace this. Yes, they would like a Palestinian state recognized, but it wouldn't mean that Hamas accepts Israel permanently as a peaceful state living next to it.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Right. While Trump is on Israel's side here, he is also not sharply admonishing his allies who are recognizing a Palestinian state. On this move. Last week in the uk, with Prime Minister Starmer, Trump almost seemed to take an agree to disagree stance. And I'm wondering, Franco, what do you make of that? Trump is not shy about lashing out at people he disagrees with.

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, I. I would agree. I do feel that President Trump has been very careful, particularly in this administration, not to disagree as much with European leaders. You pointed out the meeting with the British prime minister. Trump did say that he disagreed with the UK's decision to recognize a Palestinian state, but he was very clear and very forceful to say that this is one of the very few things that they disagreed on. And I think that's kind of an example of how this administration is kind of different than his first administration, how Trump has worked hard not to necessarily contradict leaders. It is also, and probably more so, you know, an example of how European leaders have learned how to get on Trump's good side through the use of flattery and gifts, especially very flashy ones like Royal Carriage Rides Historic second state visit in the uk.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Right. Okay, it is time for a break. More in a moment.

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[Danielle Kurtzleben]

And Greg, I want to talk about Israel's response to all of this because it's worth noting that they've been steadfastly opposed to these decisions to recognize Palestinian statehood. What is their reasoning here?

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah, their position, which has been strongly backed by the US is that you do negotiate first and you go all the way back to the 90s. And this is the way it's been done. Several attempted negotiations, none of which have fully succeeded. Now this works to Israel's advantage in a number of ways because it holds all the cards. It's obviously much more powerful than the Palestinians. Israeli troops are in Gaza and the West Bank. The Palestinians have very little leverage. No real cards to play here The Palestinians also argue that when it's relatively quiet, the Israelis don't feel any need to negotiate. Everything is okay from their perspective. And then when there's violence or some sort of political turmoil, the Israelis say, well, we can't negotiate during a time of turmoil. Therefore, the status quo works well for Israel. They want to keep it, and they always find a reason not to negotiate. This has been, I think, particularly true during the Netanyahu administration. He has been prime minister Almost continuously from 2009 till today, 16 years with a short break in there. And he says flat out now that he won't allow the creation of a Palestinian state. Now many Palestinians will also say, look, we've tried negotiations, they didn't work. Now, as we see these moves towards recognizing a Palestinian state, Netanyahu is threatening to respond and he may take an action that could include annexing parts of the West Bank. Israel has a lot of Jewish settlers, hundreds of thousands of settlers in the west bank, but it has never annexed the west bank and made it, in their view, sovereign Israeli territory. It's still disputed territory at this point, but there are members of Netanyahu's right wing government saying that Israel should now respond to this international call by pushing back and annexing parts of the West Bank.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Right. And we should also say here that this isn't just about borders and about statehood. There has been a terrible humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We've seen photos of starving children, some really horrific images coming out of there. So, Franco, I want to ask you, given the U.S. s power, given the fact that the U.S. is Israel's strongest defender, is there any way that this administration can use its influence to change the Israeli government's conduct in the war against Hamas in Gaza?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, I think if anyone can, it would be the Trump administration. But also his track record is just not very good. I mean, Trump is only willing to go so far. I mean, let's just take a few weeks ago when Israel launched an attack on Hamas leaders inside Qatar, an important ally of the U.S. also, an attack that was not that far from a US Military base. Now, Trump expressed some disappointment, but there was no action taken. And he was soon defending Israel on opposing Palestinian statehood. Now, he says it won't happen again, but I think what you are seeing is the US Continuing to support Israel's military actions. And I don't think you're going to see that change. I mean, Netanyahu is even coming to Washington next week. I don't expect it to be a difficult meeting. I think you're going to see a lot of camaraderie. And I think you're going to see a united front, particularly on this issue of opposing, you know, statehood of the Palestinians.

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah. And just a quick reminder, the Israelis and Palestinians reached a ceasefire on January 19, the day before Trump took office. On January 20, it did hold for about six weeks or so. It then fell apart with an Israeli military operation in Gaza. It's essentially been broken down since then. And the Trump administration, yes, they want the hostages released, yes, they want a ceasefire. But Trump hasn't put that much pressure on the Israelis, as Franco noted. And even to the larger question about getting beyond this war and trying to work out some larger, more comprehensive political solution, Trump and his administration really hasn't been talking about that at all.

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, let's remember what Trump has talked about. He's talked about removing Palestinians from the region. He's talked about redeveloping the area. He's talked about resort, like beachfront property. I mean, this is, you know, Trump definitely has some ideas for that area, and statehood is probably not one of them.

[Greg Myhre]

Right.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, I want to take a really big step back here and ask about how both here and in the war in Ukraine, we've seen the US's European allies stand apart from the US. I'm wondering if you guys can address what does this moment say about the U.S. s role in foreign affairs and how has that changed under Trump? Greg, let's start with you.

[Greg Myhre]

Sure. I mean, we've all heard lots of talk, particularly among think tanks or panel discussions, about the way the world is changing. The world post World War II order led by the United States is breaking down here. I think with the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, you see two concrete examples and you really see where that's happening in Ukraine. Trump says, this is not our war. We're not the ones to sort this out. The Europeans need to do more. The US is doing some very limited things. Trump says, I will sell weapons to NATO countries which they can give to Ukraine. He thought his relationship with Putin would sort this out. That hasn't happened. The US is not leading in this major conflict in Europe, something unthinkable for decades. And in Gaza, the Trump administration, like other U.S. administrations, Republican and Democratic, has been very strongly supportive of Israel. So that's not new. The Palestinians often describe the US as Israel's lawyer in this conflict. But previous administrations have spoken openly about the desire for a two state solution that would give the Palestinians a state and would bring security to Israel. That's just not what we're hearing for the Trump administration. And again, and he says very, very little about the humanitarian suffering in Gaza, right?

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah. I mean, I'd say like when Trump came into office, a lot of people looked to his America first policies and expected kind of a pulling back from international affairs. And I think you do not see that. And I think his record shows that he wants to be very involved in international affairs. I think what is very different, though, that he wants to do it on his terms and not on multilateral terms, not on European terms. I don't think that means that Europe is totally on its own here, but they can only do so much. And Trump is clearly going to be a reluctant player on some of these big conflicts, as kind of Greg was describing. And Europe is going to have to use all the powers of persuasion to convince this administration to take certain steps if they want the US to increase pressure on Israel and Russia. And they've only, you know, been so successful so far.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

All right. We're going to have to leave it there for today, until tomorrow. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover the White House.

[Frank Ordonez]

I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House.

[Greg Myhre]

I'm Greg Myrey and I cover national security.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Greg Myhre]

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