What Now For Trump's Court Cases?

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: What Now For Trump's Court Cases?

Release Date: November 27, 2024
Host: NPR
Title: What Now For Trump's Court Cases?

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Introduction

In the November 27, 2024 episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, NPR's seasoned political reporters delve into the current status of former President Donald Trump's myriad legal challenges. The discussion centers on the recent closures and indefinite postponements of several high-profile cases against Trump, exploring the legal rationale behind these decisions, their political ramifications, and the broader implications for presidential power in the United States.

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Overview of Dismissed Federal Cases

The episode begins with a comprehensive overview of the federal cases against Donald Trump that have recently been shelved or postponed:

• January 6th Insurrection Case: The federal case addressing Trump's involvement in the events of January 6th has been closed.
• Mar-a-Lago Classified Documents Case: Charges concerning Trump's improper retention of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago are no longer proceeding.
• New York Business Fraud Case: Sentencing in this case, where Trump was found guilty of business fraud, has been indefinitely delayed.

Susan Davis [00:55]:
"Today on the show, Donald Trump's legal troubles are going, going, gone. The case related to Trump's actions on January 6, as well as the case into improperly keeping classified documents at Mar a Lago are closed."
(00:55)

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Reasons Behind the Dismissals

Kerry Johnson [01:35]:
Kerry Johnson, covering the Justice Department, explains that the dismissal stems from a long-standing Justice Department interpretation that a sitting president cannot be criminally charged. This view is rooted in decades-old legal precedent aimed at preventing political distractions during a presidential transition.

"Because Donald Trump is now the president elect and he needs to get ready for the transition and to assume power early next year, the thinking is it places too much of a burden on him constitutionally to have to deal with these cases."
(01:35)

Special Counsel Jack Smith, who had previously indicted Trump in Florida and D.C., cited this constitutional interpretation as the primary reason for dismissing the January 6th and Mar-a-Lago cases, despite affirming the government's confidence in the strength of the prosecutions.

Jack Smith [01:35]:
"It doesn't matter the gravity of these crimes or the strength of the government's case. And he said the government stands fully behind this prosecution."

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Political Implications and Legal Victories

The dismissal of these cases is portrayed as a significant political victory for Trump. Domenico Montanaro [03:25] highlights how Trump's legal team has adeptly delayed proceedings, aligning case conclusions with his political timeline to minimize impact as he approaches a potential second term.

"They did a good job in being able to do that, and being able to win reelection has essentially made these cases go away."
(03:25)

Moreover, the episode discusses how Trump's legal battles and their outcomes bolster his narrative of being targeted by political adversaries—a claim that resonates deeply with his supporter base. Domenico Montanaro [04:25] notes:

"Trump himself insulated himself really well by being able to claim that these were witch hunts, politically motivated."
(04:25)

This sentiment reinforces Trump’s image among supporters as a figure battling against a biased establishment, irrespective of the legal merits of the cases.

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Future of Related Defendants and Cases

Turning to other defendants involved in the Mar-a-Lago case, Kerry Johnson [05:27] explains that while Trump's cases have been dismissed, individuals like Walt Nauta and Carlos de Oliveira might still face charges. However, with Trump’s impending inauguration, there is a possibility of pardoning these individuals or instructing the new DOJ leadership to drop the cases.

"The catch is this. When Trump is inaugurated next year, he could decide to pardon those guys or he could tell his new DOJ leaders to just drop that case."
(05:27)

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Special Counsel Jack Smith’s Report and Its Implications

The episode delves into the anticipated report from Special Counsel Jack Smith, despite the closure of the cases. Kerry Johnson [09:21] anticipates that the report will likely be made public, following precedent from previous special counsel investigations. However, the content's impact remains uncertain, especially given Trump's narrative control over his supporters.

"The big question for me is how much new information is there going to be in that report about what Jack Smith found against Trump and any other details about anybody else?"
(09:21)

Domenico Montanaro [10:14] adds skepticism about the report's potential to alter public perception, asserting that Trump and his base will likely dismiss any findings as politically motivated, similar to reactions to the Mueller report.

---

Supreme Court Rulings and Broader Implications for Presidential Power

A significant portion of the discussion centers on recent Supreme Court decisions that have expanded presidential immunity. Kerry Johnson [12:53]:

"This Trump immunity ruling has really erased the guardrails that people operated under since Watergate at the Justice Department and in the White House."
(12:53)

This ruling signifies a shift in the balance of power, granting presidents greater protection from legal scrutiny during their tenure. The podcast underscores concerns that such precedents could enable future presidents to evade accountability, as the current conservative majority on the Supreme Court may uphold and expand these interpretations of executive immunity.

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Jack Smith’s Future and Potential Challenges

Addressing the future of Special Counsel Jack Smith, Kerry Johnson [11:31] anticipates ongoing conflicts between Trump and Smith despite the case closures. Trump has expressed intentions to fire Smith, yet it is expected Smith will depart the DOJ before any such action can occur. Johnson highlights Smith’s extensive career and the likelihood that Trump and his administration may continue to challenge legal officials who have investigated him.

"Trump has promised to fire Jack Smith, but what I'm hearing is that Smith is going to leave the Justice Department before the inauguration, so Trump won't get a chance to fire him."
(11:31)

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Conclusion: The Future of Trump’s Legal Landscape

The episode concludes by reflecting on the entrenched positions and legal safeguards that currently shield Donald Trump from prosecution as he potentially enters a second term. Susan Davis [14:09]:

"Donald Trump who's unshackled, really being able to do kind of whatever he wants in office, because essentially what the Supreme Court has essentially said is that a president is above the law."
(14:09)

This newfound immunity sets a precarious precedent, raising questions about the future interaction between the presidency and the judicial system. The podcast emphasizes the critical nature of this juncture in American politics, where legal interpretations may significantly influence the executive branch's accountability.

Susan Davis [14:09]:
"Donald Trump who's unshackled, really being able to do kind of whatever he wants in office, because essentially what the Supreme Court has essentially said is that a president is above the law."
(14:09)

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Final Remarks

In wrapping up, the hosts extend Thanksgiving wishes to listeners, acknowledging the tumultuous political landscape of the year and expressing hope for a period of peace and reflection during the holidays.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Susan Davis [00:55]:
  "Today on the show, Donald Trump's legal troubles are going, going, gone."

• Kerry Johnson [01:35]:
  "Because Donald Trump is now the president elect and he needs to get ready for the transition and to assume power early next year, the thinking is it places too much of a burden on him constitutionally to have to deal with these cases."

• Domenico Montanaro [03:25]:
  "They did a good job in being able to do that, and being able to win reelection has essentially made these cases go away."

• Domenico Montanaro [04:25]:
  "Trump himself insulated himself really well by being able to claim that these were witch hunts, politically motivated."

• Kerry Johnson [05:27]:
  "When Trump is inaugurated next year, he could decide to pardon those guys or he could tell his new DOJ leaders to just drop that case."

• Domenico Montanaro [10:14]:
  "Trump and his supporters will look for any little piece in this report to, you know, show that he didn't do as much as the government saying that he did."

• Kerry Johnson [12:53]:
  "This Trump immunity ruling has really erased the guardrails that people operated under since Watergate at the Justice Department and in the White House."

• Susan Davis [14:09]:
  "Donald Trump who's unshackled, really being able to do kind of whatever he wants in office, because essentially what the Supreme Court has essentially said is that a president is above the law."

---

This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions from The NPR Politics Podcast episode on Trump's court cases, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and readers alike.

Transcript

[Carvana]

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[Maddie]

Hi, this is Maddie from Providence, Rhode island, the Calamari Comeback State. I just landed back in New England after a whirlwind day in Washington, D.C. where I got to see President Biden pardon the turkeys.

[Susan Davis]

This podcast was recorded at 12:23pm on Wednesday, November 27.

[Maddie]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but hopefully Peach and Blossom are gobbling their lives away back in Minnesota. Okay, here's the show.

[Susan Davis]

Oh, Domenico, this was clearly a timestamp for you.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Terrible fact about me, I'm allergic to shellfish, so I don't eat calamari.

[Susan Davis]

I'm thinking more to the point of turkey partings, which I think you have written more about than anyone in NPR history.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I was trying to avoid that. But yes, you can read my last 15 years worth of Turkey Parton stories if you'd like.

[Susan Davis]

You can Google it.

[Maddie]

Hey there.

[Susan Davis]

It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Kerry Johnson]

I'm Kerry Johnson. I cover the Justice Department.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Susan Davis]

And today on the show, Donald Trump's legal troubles are going, going, gone. The case related to Trump's actions on January 6, as well as the case into improperly keeping classified documents at Mar a Lago are closed. And sentencing in his New York business fraud case where Trump was found guilty, is on hold indefinitely. Kerry, just walk us through these federal cases. Why exactly are they dead in the water?

[Kerry Johnson]

Well, this was clear, really the morning after the presidential election. But because it's the legal system, it takes a little bit of time to work through the process. And the reason why the Justice Department has abandoned both of these federal cases against President elect Donald Trump is because there's a long standing, like decades old view within the Justice Department that is sitting President Kennedy cannot be charged with a crime or on trial for criminal charges. And because Donald Trump is now the president elect and he needs to get ready for the transition and to assume power early next year, the thinking is it places too much of a burden on him constitutionally to have to deal with these cases. And so Jack Smith, the special counsel who's been investigating Trump and indicted him two times in Florida and in D.C. moved to dismiss the case in D.C. without prejudice. Jack Smith, importantly said that it doesn't matter the gravity of these crimes or the strength of the government's case. And he said the government stands fully behind this prosecution. But because of this longstanding interpretation of the Constitution by the Justice Department, this case just cannot proceed.

[Susan Davis]

And even in the New York case, where I think opponents of Donald Trump get excited by the thought of it being delayed, but practically speaking, this case also seems dead in the water.

[Kerry Johnson]

You know, the New York case is bogged down in immunity questions, just like the other cases against Trump were. The issue is whether the judge wants to kind of hold that case hanging over Trump's head until four years from now when he's out of the White House. But practically speaking, it's hard to imagine that that case will amount to anything. And then the final case against Trump in Georgia is also bogged down amid questions about conflicts of interest by the prosecutor there, DA Fani Willis.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, it's quite remarkable what the Trump legal team has been able to do. I mean, being able to sort of delay, delay, delay throughout this entire process. I mean, this is not like they brought these charges in the middle of the presidential election. You know, these charges were brought some time ago, but the Trump team was able to get these charges pushed off, pushed off, pushed off. The trials, pushed off, the sentencing really delayed, and then through the campaign. So they did a good job in being able to do that, and being able to win reelection has essentially made these cases go away.

[Kerry Johnson]

They did such a good job that a lot of the lawyers who helped defend Trump in these cases are getting prime jobs in the Justice Department if the Senate confirms them. You know, Todd Blanch, his top defense lawyer, is in line to become the number two in the Trump Justice Department. And other lawyers, like John Sauer is in line to become the Solicitor General. So this really paid off for them.

[Susan Davis]

Domenico, in terms of political victories and I guess, frankly, legal victories, these are unambiguous, big wins for Donald Trump as he approaches his second term in office.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I mean, no doubt about it. I mean, his supporters are definitely going to say that this is a victory. It's vindication. You know, Trump himself, you know, insulated himself really well by being able to claim that these were witch hunts, politically motivated. Even though there was, it wasn't the case. It was totally baseless that the. That Biden himself was directing prosecutions of him in all these different places. You know, you could argue, obviously, if Donald Trump hadn't put documents in, you know, Mar A Lago or hadn't inspired an insurrection on January 6, he wouldn't be in any of these different problems. He, you know, is responsible for this stuff getting to where it was. But he was able to convince his base that these were just politically motivated witch hunts. And they'll continue to say that no matter what the outcome is now or four years or five years or six years from now.

[Susan Davis]

Yeah, history is written by the winners, Kerry. In some of these cases, I'm thinking specifically Mar a Lago, it wasn't just Donald Trump who was facing charges. I wonder if those folks are also off the hook or if those cases go forward.

[Kerry Johnson]

You know, there's a question about whether that case goes forward. Remember, Judge Eileen Cannon dismissed the case on the ground that Jack Smith was appointed in an unconstitutional way. But DOJ has been appealing. It dropped the appeal this week as to Trump. But the case against the two others defendants, this is Walt Nauta, Trump's valet, and Carlos de Oliveira, who had been the property manager at Mar A Lago. They're still on the hook, potentially. The catch is this. When Trump is inaugurated next year, year, he could decide to pardon those guys or he could tell his new DOJ leaders to just drop that case. So for now, the case continues. As to those two, it doesn't look good going forward for the Justice Department in terms of bringing that case forward against those two other defendants.

[Scott Simon]

All right.

[Susan Davis]

Let's take a quick break and more on this in a moment.

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[Susan Davis]

And we're back. And Carrie, I understand that the case against Donald Trump in the January 6th case is essentially closed. But the special counsel in that investigation, Jack Smith, as is typical with special counsel investigations, will work on a report that sort of includes all the details of the case. Is it possible that that is ever something that's released to the public, or is that gone now, too?

[Kerry Johnson]

No, I think it's more than likely that that will be done. We know that Jack Smith knows how to meet a deadline. In fact, he's usually early in his filings. And we know that it's a requirement of special counsels that they file a report with the attorney general. In fact, AG Merrick Garland has made other reports public. The rob her report on Biden in his classified documents, the John Durham report on investigating the investigators in 2016. All of those materials made their to the public. And Jack Smith's report is likely to become public, too. The big question for me is how much new information is there going to be in that report about what Jack Smith found against Trump and any other details about anybody else?

[Susan Davis]

Domenico, I can't think of a single as ludicrous of scenario that you could come up with of something that Donald Trump did that could ever possibly change the way that people look at him or these cases.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Certainly not something that's not going to actually be prosecuted in a court of law with a jury who, you know, Trump's campaign and Trump's base believes is unbiased, but probably not a, you know, a report from someone who Trump has called deranged. You know, and you'll remember with the Mueller investigation and that report on Russian interference that came out, it certainly did not exonerate Trump, but he and his supporters certainly claimed vindication anyway. And they'll look for any little piece in this report to, you know, show that he didn't do as much as the government saying that he did. And, you know, at the end of the day, sue, he's not running again. So if he's not running again, then the politics kind of don't matter. And this means you have Donald Trump who's unshackled, really being able to do kind of whatever he wants in office, because essentially what the Supreme Court has essentially said is that a president is above the law. They have absolute or presumed immunity when it comes to their official duty. So that's going to mean that you have a Donald Trump who doesn't really care about the politics.

[Susan Davis]

Kerry, do you have a sense of what's next for Jack Smith? And I wonder this in part because Donald Trump doesn't easily let go his vengeances against people he thinks has wronged him. So I imagine it's not the last we hear his name.

[Kerry Johnson]

Yeah, Trump has promised to fire Jack Smith, but what I'm hearing is that Smith is going to leave the Justice Department before the inauguration, so Trump won't get a chance to fire him. You know, Smith has had a lot of jobs inside the doj. I first ran into him when he joined the DOJ in Washington after the institution was reeling from the botched prosecution of the late Senator Ted Stevens in Alaska. And Smith then went on to the U.S. attorney's office in Tennessee. He had a job in the private sector. He wound up as a war crimes prosecutor in the Hague. And then Attorney General Merrick Garland basically asked him to come back home to the US and investigate Donald Trump, which he's been doing for a couple of years. I think Smith has a lot of career options, but it's certain that the Trump and the Trump administration is not done with him. We know that Trump's picked to be the Attorney general. Pam Bondi has talked on Fox News about wanting to prosecute the prosecutors. And Trump may be wanting to put some pressure next year on his new DOJ leadership to do investigations of some of these men and women who investigated him.

[Susan Davis]

Kerry, I'm curious for your take on something that Domenico just referenced about how Trump is entering power at a unique time is when you consider the Supreme Court rulings that really expanded our understanding of presidential power. It seems like there is a new chapter in how we should look at this and how we should look at the power of the presidency.

[Kerry Johnson]

There's been a lot of talk as the Supreme Court turned turned rightward to this six justice kind of conservative super majority, a lot of talk in the civil rights community and some other communities in particular about needing to play defense, in other words, trying to prevent important cases from getting to the Supreme Court at all for fear that the court would issue some kind of precedent in that particular case, but one that would apply even more broadly and be damaging to civil rights advocates and others. And I think, you know, this Trump immunity ruling has really erased the guardrails that people operated under since Watergate at the Justice Department and in the White House. And so that precedent is going to be on the books for heaven knows how long. And it's hard to imagine another case involving presidential misconduct making its way to the court again quickly because the Supreme Court has now said that a president can talk to the Justice Department about ongoing criminal investigations, about starting investigations, and a president has immunity for those kinds of actions. The pressure is really going to be on people inside the Justice Department to resist what they consider illegal or improper pressure.

[Susan Davis]

All right. We're going to leave it there for today. But before we go, I want to say Happy Thanksgiving to you both and also Happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners who have ridden this wild and unforgettable political year with us. Hope you enjoy all your turkey and extra pie. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Kerry Johnson]

I'm Kerry Johnson. I cover the Justice Department.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Susan Davis]

And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Tamara Keith]

Hey there. It's Tamara Keith from the NPR Politics Podcast. And I will keep this quick Giving Tuesday is almost here, the perfect time to support the independent news source you rely on to stay informed. Please give [e-mail] and thank you. Holiday travel is stressful, especially if you're dealing with family baggage on top of your actual baggage.

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[Maddie]

But don't worry. We're here to bring you some relief.

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Listen to the Life Kit podcast. We'll help you out this holiday season.