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Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover politics.
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I'm Sam Greenglass. I cover Congress.
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And I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.
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Today on the pod, tensions between President Trump and Senate Republicans are reaching a breaking point. And, Sam, it seems that, in short, the president wants something that the Senate can't give him, and it's creating all kinds of drama.
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Yeah, drama might be even a bit of an understatement here. President Trump really wants Congress to pass this legislation called the Save America Act. It's the this strict voter ID law. It also includes a whole bunch of other controversial voting provisions. But the thing you need to know about it is that it does not have 60 votes to pass the Senate to get around the Senate filibuster. So Trump has been trying to push the Senate to get rid of the filibuster and to also fire the Senate parliamentarian who has ruled that this could not be included as part of a party line vote that would only need 50, 50 senators. Trump also keeps trying to attach it to other pieces of legislation, including agenda items that he really wants. You know, just the other week, a last minute threat from Trump ended up holding up a vote on this party line bill to fund ICE and Border Patrol that is crucial to Trump's own agenda. So this continued push keeps getting in the way of other stuff.
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For someone who likes to look powerful as President Trump does, why is he pushing for something that Senate leaders say doesn't have the votes?
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This is how President Trump works. I mean, he is always, you know, pushing and pushing. I mean, whether it's a loyalty test, these are the things that he wants, these are the things that he's doing. And he's, you know, has always kind of bullied and bullied to get his way. And Congress, like so often has been unable to accomplish many of the things that he wants. And he either doesn't realize what needs to do or what can do, or he just doesn't care because he simply continues to push and make these expectations even when they can't, whether the votes are not there. And that's why you always see him, you know, calling for, like, the filibuster to be pushed out.
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Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana last week said Trump has two modes. He says he's a friend of the President. And he basically is either unengaged on a particular policy issue, or he wants to move at the speed of. Of light. And clearly on this issue, the Save America Act, Trump wants the Senate to move at the speed of light, and they have not done that.
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This all brings us to last week and the nomination of Jay Clayton for the Director of National Intelligence. And there was this Trump post gleefully throwing a wrench in the works to, quote, add a slight bit of intrigue, as he put it. Franco, can we just back up a bit and explain why this was such a big deal to Republican senators? Like, how did we get to this Jay Clayton thing?
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Yeah, I mean, it goes back to who Trump initially picked to replace Tulsi Gabbard in this role. Trump picked Bill Pulte, who is right now still the Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Very controversial character, very big Trump supporter, but he had no intelligence experience. None. And so many of the Republicans, obviously Democrats as well, but really did not feel like he was the right person for this job. It raised all sorts of concern considering how much important work this role is. And like you said, I mean, Trump, I think this is just kind of another example of how this president just puts people who are loyal to him, put his own people into roles that don't have the requisite experience that is needed for these roles. Certainly not the requisite experience that these members of Congress, including the Senators, felt was necessary.
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So Trump, to appease Republican Senators, announces that he is nominating Jay Clayton to be the long term Director of National Intelligence. The Senate then rushes to get him a confirmation hearing to basically get him confirmed before Pulte can do too much damage. As they see it.
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Yeah. Senate Majority Leader John Thune thought they had a plan here to confirm Clayton and then in turn extend section 702 of FISA, which had just expired. Democrats had been threatening to withhold their votes from this reauthorization unless Bill Pulte got pulled as the Acting Director of National Intelligence. So they had this plan coming together, and then it gets blown up by Trump literally in the middle of the night.
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Yeah, Trump posted that Truth Social post saying that Republicans fell into the trap. And as you kind of pointed out, Tam, he did kind of do it in this gleeful way, saying this, add a slight bit of intrigue. I mean, this is what does. He really leans into the drama and kind of leans into the entertainment value when doing this. I mean, it was just kind of fascinating that blowing up this deal that John Thune had Reached was kind of fun to him.
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And then, as if this wasn't complicated enough, he says he's not going to sign this FISA Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act renewal that Republicans in the Senate want. He's not gonna sign it until they pass the Save America act, which gets us back to where we started.
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Yep, the Save America act is back. Part of this latest dust up, too. And, you know, the reaction was really swift from Senate Republicans. Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska compared the situation to startled sled dogs.
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If some big distraction like a moose comes through and you got half the team going over here and half the team going over here, it is chaos. And then what that musher has to do is he's got to stop and spend all of his time untangling this mess.
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So if you didn't pick up on the analogy here, the moose would be President Trump in this situation, and the musher is Senate Majority Leader John Boone.
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Thank you for explaining the analogy.
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Yeah, I definitely needed that coming from the South.
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And then, you know, even after all of this blowback, though, from Senate Republicans, Trump doubled down again on social media, saying that the Republican Party will never win another election. I will sadly be the last Republican president. Senate Majority Leader John Thune and the Republican Senate must not let this carnage happen.
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Something he has said many, many times before.
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Let's just note, just to be clear. So, Franco, it almost sounds like the president doesn't fully understand how the Senate works or how many votes are needed or that maybe not all Republicans actually support the Save America Act.
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Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if he understands how it works or if he just doesn't care. I mean, he has been railing on the Senate since returning to office. He did it in his first term. He's always, as Sam was talking about, feels like it's moving too slow and not taking the actions that he wants to take. This is why you see so many executive orders by this president ever since the beginning, because he wants to take as much power as he can. He has shown that with the executive orders that give him more and more power. At the same time, the House has kind of handed over a lot more power to him, and he wants that same kind of power by the Senate.
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Yeah. And I think part of this goes into the relationship that Senate Majority Leader John Thune has with the president versus the relationship that House Speaker Mike Johnson has. Johnson is pretty much willing to go along with what President Trump wants, whereas Senate Majority Leader John Thune, who has this really narrow majority in a chamber where you gotta get 60 votes to accomplish most pieces of legislation. Thune is often in the position of having to tell the President no.
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And there aren't a lot of Republicans in Washington or anywhere who tell President Trump no. So, Sam, how would you describe the relationship between Thune and President Trump?
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Yeah, I mean, they don't have this long standing relationship. Thune doesn't come from the MAGA wing of the party. He is very focused on preserving the institution of the U.S. senate. But, you know, Senator John Kennedy this week described Thune as a golden retriever. No one really dislikes them. Dogs. Yes. This is a canine heavy episode, which I am all about. But, you know, I don't think this is about Thune and Trump having personal beef necessarily. It is simply that Thune has to be in this position of telling Trump no. And he's been really clear repeatedly that the votes just aren't there to pass the Save America Act. Just take a listen to this recent appearance on Fox News.
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It's a function of math and obviously the President wants things done and you have to go through regular order. It's a 60 vote threshold in the Senate and as I said, there aren't anywhere close to the requisite number of votes to change that. It's just not going to happen. So we've got to deal in. Right.
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The real world, though, this is complicated by the fact that there are a handful of Senate Republicans, notably Senator Mike Lee of Utah, who keep saying, no, this is possible.
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You know, I mean, I think one of the things is that Trump is just so adamant about getting this through and, you know, it dates back to. I mean, certainly it's one of his biggest domestic priorities, this legislation, and dates back, you know, all the way back to 2020 in him saying that that election was rigged, which obviously it. So in a bigger kind of political picture, this act which does voter ID and requires people to bring identification, he
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sees this birth certificates or proof of citizenship, not just identification.
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Absolutely. And this kind of speaks to his kind of message that he's had forever and ever and ever, that Republicans are vulnerable, that elections are vulnerable and that Republicans are being taken advantage of. And I think this is an issue that also energizes his base and they want this as well. So it is part of his political message that he has been, you know, preaching since 2020 and continues to do so.
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All right, we are going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
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and we're back and we've been talking about the Save America act, which is a very big priority for President Trump. Sam, is it as big a priority for Republicans on the Hill?
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For a few of them it is, but for most of the Senate Republican caucus, I would say no. Even though most of that caucus does say that they would vote for it, it's not something that is driving their everyday moves on the Hill. I asked Senate Majority Leader John Thune whether Trump's focus on 2020 is coming at the expense of an agenda that will help Republicans keep the majority not in that previous election, but in this upcoming one in 2026. And here's what he said, at least
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as far as I'm concerned. I think our path to keeping the majority in the Senate is going to be focused on the issues that the American people are most concerned about, and those tend to be kitchen table pocketbook issues. Is my community safe? Is my country safe? I think those are going to be paramount.
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And I followed up as Thune was disappearing into his office to ask is it hard to stay focused on those issues in this particular moment when the president keeps blowing up your best laid plans? And he turned and said I'm trying to stay focused.
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Yeah. On the matter of pocketbook issues, President Trump has said several things that would sort of fly in the face of that messaging that Thune wants. He has said I love inflation, though he meant that he loves that it wasn't higher because of the war. He has said that he isn't thinking about Americans finances when negotiating with Iran. I mean, there's definitely a mismatch there between what the President is saying and what Thune says he wants Republicans to
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run on Yeah, I mean, Senate Republicans would prefer to be talking about the one year anniversary of the one big beautiful bill, that sweeping tax and spending bill that Republicans passed last year. They'd prefer to be talking about the bipartisan housing bill that Congress is on track to pass this week. Instead. So much of the focus has been on Bill Pulte, has been on Iran, has been on this anti weaponization fund that the administration had previously proposed that could have resulted in payouts to January 6th rioters. So the attention keeps getting pulled back into these other issues, many of which are premised on relitigating 2020. Not a forward looking vision for what Republicans would do if they hold the majority in 2026.
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You know, in terms of some of those comments that Trump has made that really have not gone over well. Like I love the inflation type thing, I do think that certainly does not serv. I also think it's kind of a little bit more of a distraction. I mean, I really feel like most Americans are more focused on whether their inflation is actually going up, whether gas prices continue to go up, whether food prices can be get controlled. Of that said, I mean, you can imagine how gleeful those ad writers are in Democratic political offices are as they're cutting ads for their campaigns for the upcoming midterms because they certainly love those lines because what they want to do over and over again is paint Republicans, the president and Republicans of being so out of touch with everyday Americans who are focused, as Thune said, on those kitchen table issues.
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Another issue that is straining the relationship between Trump and senators from his own party is the war with Iran. And most recently this memorandum of understanding that Trump signed with Iran to end hostilities for the next 60 days at least. Sam, how are Republican senators reacting to it?
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Well, for a lot of last week, senators had not been able to see the draft of the memorandum of understanding. Even those in the Gang of Eight, these top Senate leaders who normally would be given a preview of this kind of document once it did come out, what exactly was in it? We did start to hear a lot of pushback even from within the Republican Party. You know, Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, one of the senators who lost his his primary bid, posted on social media that Reagan is rolling over in his grave. This is the worst foreign policy blunder in decades. Others like Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said it doesn't look like the US really came out ahead in any of this after a month long conflict. There are others who are saying, well, we'll wait and see. But there was Certainly some frustration among Senate Republicans on the Hill last week.
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Yeah, I'm very kind of curious to see if this kind of ends up being a little bit of a crack that kind of shows or kind of reveals the senators being a little bit more independent of Trump's agenda. I do have my doubts because we've kind of went down that narrative a few times. But clearly, as Sam's kind of pointing out, many Republicans have raised concerns about what they're seeing so far. There are so many comparisons that this is just the Obama deal 2.0. So there's big questions about that. But I think the real question is will they actually do something about it? And there's one thing to kind of complain about it behind closed doors, but will they take action such as kind of requiring Trump to seek approval from Congress, which they've not done really so far.
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Yeah. And just today, the Trump administration lifted sanctions on Iran as part of this memorandum of understanding. But like, you know, there are a lot of Republican senators who are in favor of applying as much pressure to Iran as possible and see lifting sanctions, among other things, as something of capitulation. But, Sam, you have been following this so called YOLO caucus. You only lose once, or in some cases, like they never needed Trump anyway. Do you have a sense of whether this YOLO caucus is actually going to end up causing him trouble beyond rhetoric?
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Yeah. So there's this small group of Senate Republicans who have either been lost primaries to challengers backed by President Trump or have decided to retire after facing Trump's wrath for acting in a way that was in opposition to his agenda. You know, the people we're usually talking about in this group is North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, who opted to retire after voting against the one big beautiful Bill act last year. And then there's also Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and John Cornyn of Texas, who lost to Trump back primary challengers within the last couple of weeks. And, you know, these figures so far have made threats, for example, to hold up nominations or take other actions to push back more tangibly. But, Tam, it's been a lot of talk, I would say so far, being really vocal in their criticism, which, you know, is a departure from how most Senate Republicans have operated in recent months. But for the most part, there isn't a lot of action to back up that talk. You know, I spent time on the campaign trail with Senator Cassidy in Louisiana before he lost his bid. And catching up again later, a lot of them see themselves as being liberated now to speak out, and that is significant. For the Senate, though I should say that this latest conflict between Senate Republicans and Trump that we've been talking about, it's not just this small group that is unhappy. We're hearing frustration from a much broader swath of the Republican caucus.
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Though listening to both you and Franco, it sounds like we are not yet predicting that this is the moment that the Senate really, really breaks with Trump. It's just not clear yet.
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I don't think so. I mean, I think you will. I mean, look, the midterms are coming up. It's much different than the primaries. Some of these Republicans that we have talking about are going to be, you know, kind of appeal to more moderate independent Democratic voters as so it suits them to kind of speak out against Trump or put a little distance between them and Trump. But in terms of action, I guess let's see if that actually happens because so far, they've almost always stopped short.
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All right. Well, we are going to leave it there for today, but should this situation change, we will rush back into the studio. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover politics.
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I'm Sam Greenglass. I cover Congress.
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And I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White.
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And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.
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Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise, from Charles Schwab, is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. Listen @schwab.com washingtonwise. This message comes from Indeed Hiring do it the Right Way with Indeed Sponsored jobs claim a $75 sponsored job credit to get matched with quality candidates at indeed. Com Podcast terms and conditions apply.