Elena Moore (1:23)

I know we didn't get that.

Claudia Grisales (1:24)

Yeah.

Sarah McCammon (1:25)

Yeah. So, Claudia, House Speaker Mike Johnson, I actually sent the House home a day early back in July, as you'll remember, in an effort to tamp down the controversy around the disgraced financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. But the issue isn't really going away, is it?

Claudia Grisales (1:40)

No. Republicans are coming back basically to face the music. It went right before they left. As you mentioned, Speaker Johnson sent them home early because Democrats kept bringing up the Epstein case in the House Rules Committee to vote on it. They didn't want to vote on it anymore. So Republicans are basically trying, trying a new strategy here because they're hearing all these complaints from their base that they're not being transparent enough with the Epstein files and releasing them to the public. So the House Oversight Committee had a very busy August issuing subpoenas for documents for witnesses. I heard today from sources that survivors connected to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein will be meeting behind closed doors with the House Oversight Committee. And Democrats will speak to the press we expect the chairman, James Comer of Kentucky, to speak to the press afterwards. We will see how much they share publicly. But this is highly anticipated.

Sarah McCammon (2:40)

So I guess the hope was that this would sort of blow over or calm down by the time everybody came back. It doesn't really look that way. I mean, Elena, this controversy has been sort of out of the spotlight for several weeks now, but have the politics around it changed?

Elena Moore (2:54)

Yeah, I think Mike Johnson sending the House home early almost ignited from further this firestorm that we really saw online over the Epstein files, the way that the administration handled it. You know, this summer we have seen prominent voices on the right, like we said, in Trump's base, but also folks in that more middle section, that disaffected voter group kind of latch onto this issue. And ideas have kind of festered in the, you know, recess time that members have been away. We've seen prominent podcasters like Joe Rogan talk about it on his show. We've seen polling that, you know, it's an issue that's really resonated, especially with younger folks, especially young men. And so, you know, we can't overstate how this is going to affect it. But people are definitely watching to see what lawmakers do now that they're back.

Claudia Grisales (3:43)

And it's interesting how Democrats jumped on this issue. They knew that the Republican base was upset about this. They inflamed it. It's part of a political calculation here. And this week they could see a House floor vote for a full record release of the Epstein files. This is being also by Republican from Kentucky, Thomas Massie. That Congressman has teamed up with Ro Khanna of California and they've done what's referred to as a discharge petition so you can force a vote on the House floor. Meanwhile, Speaker Johnson and other Republicans are going to have another vote supporting the House Oversight Committee's work. So it's going to be a battle of the votes and who's being more transparent than who.

Sarah McCammon (4:28)

Yeah, and I think that's an important point. This isn't just a Democrat Republican fight. I mean, there are divisions within the GOP on how to handle this. You know, lawmakers also have other work to do as they return. Also on the agenda is an effort to avoid a government shutdown when funding runs out at the end of September. Claudia, remind us how we got here.

Claudia Grisales (4:47)

Right. So earlier this year, the members of the Republican Party in Congress decided just to go it alone on funding the government. They went with a basically another one of these so called continuing resolutions as a stopgap. Measure that keeps funding levels traditionally static. But they needed Democrats help in the Senate to get this done. So Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer allowed this legislation to get us to this point of September 30th of funding for the government to go through. He needed several Democrats to join him, and he got a lot of backlash for that and even calls for his resignation. So we don't know how Democrats are going to handle it other than they say they're going to fight harder and listen to their base. And Republicans just want to keep funding levels static. And that's a no go for Democrats.

Sarah McCammon (5:40)

Elena, what does the Democratic base want at this point? What's your sense from your reporting? They faced a similar fight, as Claudia just mentioned earlier this year. But I mean, is there an appetite among the Democratic base for a fight and potentially a shutdown?

Elena Moore (5:53)

It feels like Groundhog Day because the same things we were talking about before they left are kind of the same things that folks are feeling now. Democrats want to see their party not roll over and just let Trump, you know, do what he's going to do. And I think that's what a lot of people thought by, you know, Leader Schumer's response several months back. So I think the conversation still is this demand to see some sort of fight, some sort of pushback. But again, that's when we get Democrats, like, kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Right. Because it's either they shut down the government and are at fault for, you know, the things that follow from that, or they again, let Republicans proceed and continue this message of we're powerless, we can't do anything. And so I think it's going to be a really hard place and it's going to come down to just Democratic messages and how strong the party can message and explain the position they're in. And up till this point, we really haven't seen that resonate.

Sarah McCammon (6:47)

I mean, big picture question for both of you. What has changed, if anything, since March, the last time the government almost ran out of money?

Claudia Grisales (6:54)

Well, for Democrats, we saw them take quite the beating from their constituents that they are not stopping enough of what they see as damage to government funding and to programs and services. And we've seen these, these rescission packages go through. For example, one was approved earlier this year that cut funding for foreign aid. And now, more recently, President Trump did a pocket rescission. This cuts Congress out completely. They should have 45 days to deliberate. But because less than that in terms of those 45 days is left, he was able to proceed with this to claw back another $5 billion. So there are tensions on both sides. Republicans are trying to thread the needle with president and his demands. He weighs in a lot on these processes. And Democrats are trying to listen to their base.

Elena Moore (7:48)

Yeah, I was gonna say on the Republican side, navigating the politics has been really tricky. Right. Because they're doing things like trying to sell the so called big beautiful bill despite some of the pushback we've seen around these social programs. And then at the same time with the Epstein conversation, balancing all of these levels while still kind of keeping up that push of being transparent and talking to voters. Cause we haven't seen as many Republican held town halls. Right. During the recess.

Claudia Grisales (8:13)

Exactly. That was really interesting over the break. And we saw many really have a tough time with constituents that showed up just visibly angry about cuts to Medicaid that were passed as part of President Trump's signature bill this summer. So it is difficult. Republicans are facing a lot of accusations that they're ceding their power to Trump.

Sarah McCammon (8:35)

Yeah, I mean, it seems like so much of the Republican message is anti government, cutting government, reducing the size of government. And it seems to me like Democrats really don't have a lot of levers they can pull here. It seems like their options are either go along with that or shut down the government, which as you both said, could have political fallout and in some ways could play into Republicans hands. But, you know, we'll see which way they go, I guess, in the next few weeks. All right, it's time for a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment.

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Sarah McCammon (10:32)

And we're back. Alaina, you've been reporting that although there is a growing number of democrats under age 40 who want to run for Congress, there are not as many Republicans in that same age group doing the same thing. What are you seeing?

Elena Moore (10:44)

Yeah, so far. I mean, and it's changing. You know, this could look different as we get closer to the midterms, but by my count, I've seen roughly 20 or so Democrats in their 20s and 30s announce bids for either special elections this year or midterm races next year. On the Republican side, I have been able to find one so far. Uh, you know, and that is Mason foley. He's a 28 year old running in a special election in Tennessee's 9th district. That's a seat held by former Republican Congressman Mark Green, who resigned earlier this year. He's definitely a long shot candidate, fully as many young first time candidates are. It's a crowded field. But, you know, watching his campaign and seeing his announcement video, we get a sense of what the young Republican pitch might be.

Sarah McCammon (11:31)

President Trump's legislative policies are making real.

Narrator/Promoter (11:34)

Progress, but he needs a new generation.

Sarah McCammon (11:36)

Of conservative leaders to step up and help finish what he started. We have to put the American dream back in reach. You know, Elena, it's kind of surprising. I mean, we heard so much about how Trump picked up support among young voters, especially young men in this last election. So why aren't more younger Republicans running for office?

Elena Moore (11:53)

I don't think we should read in too much to it yet. I think more than anything, it's showing these two sides of the generation may have a different strategy about getting involved in in Congress. You know, I think when I've talked to young Republican organizers and leaders in this space, they say unlike young Democrats, as we've talked about, they are happy with their leaders in Congress. You know, they won majorities in the House and the Senate. They won the presidency. And so, you know, if they don't want to mess with that, that leaves very few open seats safe seats on top of that that young Republicans can really go for. And I think on top of that, there's also this like adherence to a more traditional climbing of the ranks on the Republican side that we've seen on the Democratic side, and more respect for that process, they would argue. And that's something I talked about with Adam Pennings, who is the executive director of Run Gen Z, which is a group that helps young conservatives run for state or local office. And here's how he kind of described the difference.

Narrator/Promoter (12:53)

We have young people who are in state house and state Senate and county commissioner seats waiting in the wings for when their congressman, when he steps down or she steps down, then they'll step up. Whereas on the other side, it's a lot more of trying to fight in, maybe even some might say dog eat dog, you know.

Elena Moore (13:11)

And he also said when young Republicans do step up, he argues they're more welcomed by their party than young Democrats would be.

Sarah McCammon (13:20)

Yeah, I mean, we've seen a number of Democratic members of Congress announce recently that they won't seek reelection. Claudia, how much pressure have Democratic leaders been under from the party's younger wing in that regard?

Claudia Grisales (13:33)

Quite a bit. This is a very big time in terms of a period of self reflection for Democrats. When we look back, for example, when there was pressure for President Biden to step down, that was a big moment for Democrats to really consider. Where are we in terms of our younger future leaders of this party? We were just talking about leader Chuck Schumer, and he faced that heat and those calls to step down. He was being too conservative. That's what we heard from younger members. And so we've seen this play out again and again all over the country. For example, I was in Texas recently, and the member who represents Central Texas has for a very long time, Lloyd Doggett, really hit a difficult moment with facing off against Greg Cassar. Cassar got redistricted out of his district because of a new map in Texas that was approved recently. And so Cassar and Doggett were battling it out for several weeks as to who would represent Austin. And Doggett finally said he would retire. This longtime member would leave Congress. And Cassar, who is chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, would take over as lead candidate, the lead Democrat to represent that shrinking blue dot in Austin.

Elena Moore (14:55)

And we should say, you know, Cassar is 36. He's a millennial. He's totally in this generational bracket.

Sarah McCammon (15:01)

And just yesterday, longtime New York Congressman Jerry Nadler, who's 78, says he's planning to retire. He Says he hopes to see someone younger step in. I mean, do you expect more of these kinds of announcements?

Claudia Grisales (15:11)

It's very possible we'll see some of the older Democrats make those sort of announcements. Interestingly enough, Nadler was heading up the House Judiciary Committee until very recently. Jamie Raskin took over that role when they were going through this period of picking their ranking, their top ranking members on various committees. And this issue of age came up and Nadler was forced to step aside. So this seems to be part of a progression for Democrats not to fall into the same mistakes they made last year supporting Biden and not knowing that Biden was really not in the best shape to continue for reelection.

Elena Moore (15:49)

Yeah, but it's, I don't think it's completely clear cut. You know, there have already been several examples of, you know, longtime democrats in their 80s and their 70s who have said they're gonna run again or have filed for reelection. I mean, a top example, I think is Nancy Pelos. She's 85. She filed her paperwork to run for reelection last fall. She's facing a challenger who's in his late 30s. So I think it's going to be really interesting because on the other side, we have seen some really high profile people, longtime Democratic heroes. On top of Nadler, who did also have a primary challenger, he had a 26 year old organizer announce over the summer that they were going to challenge him. But we saw a similar thing with Jan Schakowski in Chicago, a longtime progressive stalwart in the party. And she, she had a, you know, a really high profile, 26 year old challenger. And now since she has announced she's going to retire, that district has almost a handful of folks under 40 that are all vying for that seat. It's really interesting.

Sarah McCammon (16:48)

You know, I think it's worth remembering President Trump is, you know, 79 years old, the person at the top of the party. At the same time, the Republican Party hasn't had this same perception. They had a lot of younger candidates in the primary last year. When it comes to the messaging, Elena, how does the messaging you're seeing, you know, from those younger Democrats compare to what you're seeing from younger Republicans around this question of age?

Elena Moore (17:10)

I think the overlap is they're both calling for new blood, but the reason is quite different. On the Democratic side, they are angry with Trump and their own party. On the Republican side, they are happy with Trump and want to help their party. That's a very different attitude. And, you know, I talked to Hayden Padgett, who's the chairman of the Young Republican National Federation. And he told me, you know, young conservatives don't have, as he put it, the same level, level of rudderless discontent with their party, which I thought was quite a phrase. But, you know, and it's, it, I mean, it's true in the numbers of that 20 or so young folks that are running for Congress, I've counted 10. It was just 11. But now that Nadler has, has announced he's retiring 10 young people who are challenging sitting Democrats. They're not all older Democrats, but they're people who are either, you know, folks say need to step aside, let a younger generation lead, or folks that these challengers argue have been ineffective leaders, which is a really strong message to put against your own party in a year where you're trying to take back the House. And, you know, I think the DNC would argue focus on seats they want to win over rather than intraparty fights where they already have control.

Claudia Grisales (18:24)

Yeah. You can see on Capitol Hill, for example, for example, when it comes to this age issue, Republicans have just had more success with their more senior members, while Democrats have not. It is proven time and time again to be an issue for them, and it's one they're trying to course correct on.

Sarah McCammon (18:41)

All right. We're going to leave it there for today. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

Elena Moore (18:44)

I'm Elena Moore. I also cover politics.

Claudia Grisales (18:46)

And I'm Claudia Grizales. I cover Congress.

Sarah McCammon (18:48)

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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