Why these swing voters say they’re frustrated with Trump

Summary

---

The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Why these swing voters say they’re frustrated with Trump
Date: January 22, 2026
Summary by an Expert Podcast Summarizer

---

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, NPR launches a new recurring segment featuring swing voters—specifically, Pennsylvanians who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 and Donald Trump in 2024. Hosts Miles Parks, Ashley Lopez, and Mara Liasson explore why these elusive voters swung from one party to another, what they currently think of both parties, and how Trump's presidency is aligning (or not) with their expectations. The focus group approach is designed to dig deeper than polling: instead of just “what,” it explores the “why” behind opinions on hot-button issues like the economy, immigration, and foreign policy.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Makes This Focus Group Different? (02:16)

• NPR is partnering with Engages and researcher Rich Tao to conduct recurring focus groups, not traditional polls.
• These are in-depth, unscripted conversations—meant to understand the reasoning behind voter opinions, not extrapolate trends.
  • Mara Liasson (02:23): “No, it’s not polling... This is the why, not the... this is not scientific. It’s only a small group of voters... But we do want to know why they feel the way they do.”

2. Who Are These Swing Voters? (03:22, 03:55)

• Group composition: Pennsylvania, critical swing state
  • 7 Republicans, 6 Independents, 1 Democrat (all Biden 2020, Trump 2024 voters)
• Many are not party loyalists; swing voters' defining trait is dissatisfaction with both options.

---

3. Gut Feelings: Describing the Parties in One Word (04:21-05:10)

• Descriptions of Democrats:
  • “Distracted,” “Unprepared,” “Panicked,” “Sensitive,” “Whiny,” “Scary,” “Disoriented,” “Corrupt,” “Weak” (two said “Weak”)
• Descriptions of Republicans:
  • “Trump,” “Weak,” “Conservative,” “Bewildered,” “Outspoken,” “Patriotic,” “Loyal,” “Immoral”

Mara Liasson: “One of the features that we know about swing voters is they don’t like either party. That’s why they swing.” (04:55)

---

4. Big Picture Takeaways: Why Did They Choose Trump, and What Are Their Worries? (05:25-06:34)

• Main Concerns:
  • The economy is their primary focus.
  • Foreign policy is often seen as a distraction.
  • Disapproval of Trump’s style—his meanness and divisiveness continues to grate on swing voters.
  • Some wish he was less publicly combative, as it puts them in uncomfortable social positions.

Ashley Lopez:

“A lot of the swing voters that, you know, we heard from... the way in which Trump talks about his opponents... make their lives harder because they have to justify voting for Trump all the time. And they feel like this puts them in a weird position with other people.” (05:48)

---

5. Drilling Down on Immigration (06:34-10:12)

• View on Deportations:
  • Broad support for deporting undocumented immigrants with criminal records.
  • Most don’t support detaining those without criminal records—concern for profiling and overreach.
• On ICE:
  • 8 of 14 voters think ICE is “getting this right.”
  • 6 say ICE is going too far, especially in the interior.
  • Specific worry: U.S. citizens being targeted/harassed.
• Notable Quote:

Hasan (independent): “It’s not just, quote, unquote, dangerous folks that are getting deported. It’s folks that are not dangerous... if you have an accent, you’re pretty much subject to, you know, ICE going after you.” (08:01)

• On the Renee Macklin Goode Incident:
  • Most did NOT assign blame to Trump for the shooting by an ICE officer.
  • Reason: See the president as removed from individual agents’ actions.
  • Focused concerns on officer training and protocol.

---

6. The Economy: Hope Turns to Frustration (12:06-14:43)

• General Sentiment:

  • Voters feel more economic anxiety than they did before Trump’s return, despite hopes he’d turn things around.
  • Gas prices going down is seen as a Trump win, but most expenses remain high.

• Voter Highlight—Kimberly (independent):

  • “I really don’t see the President speaking to working individuals. And I think working individuals are like an element that have been forgotten by both parties. But [Trump’s] trying to get back at his political adversaries. I see a lot of that, but I don’t see, you know, things really happening that’s going to benefit the common person.” (12:48)

• White House Response:

  • White House wants Trump to focus on economic plans and messaging.
  • Voters dislike being told the economy is great when their lived experience says otherwise.

---

7. Foreign Policy: A Growing Distraction (14:35-16:35)

• Sentiment:

  • Voters did not object to the raid that ousted Maduro in Venezuela, but are wary of further U.S. interventions.
  • Feel Trump’s focus on international affairs distracts from domestic priorities.
  • Some apparently voted for Trump expecting him to be more isolationist.

• Link to Economic Anxiety:

  • Grace (Republican):

    “When the invasion occurred with Venezuela... I have this feeling of I don’t know what’s going to happen next.” (15:31)

  • This unpredictability is linked to economic uncertainty and worry.

• Moderator Rich Tao’s assessment:

  • “Their frustration here is with the international activities... They think the president isn’t focused on what matters most to them day to day.” (16:35)

---

8. Assessing Trump, Looking Ahead (17:00-18:34)

• Job Approval:

  • 8 out of 14 voters disapprove of Trump’s job so far.
  • Few report serious remorse about voting for him; frustration with Democrats remains strong.
  • Slight “buyer’s remorse,” but not a full break from Trump.

• Blame for the Economy:

  • Some still blame Biden; group says this will shift “in a year” if things don't improve.

• Notable Quote:

  • “You would think with those kind of numbers, you would hear someone at least being... Democrat curious or something. I did not get a sense of that... a lot of them said, even when it comes to the economy, they’re willing to wait and see.” (Ashley Lopez, 17:41)

---

9. Next Steps: Where This Segment Goes (18:34-19:23)

• Upcoming Focus:
  • Next month: Arizona swing voters (Biden 2020 / Trump 2024)
  • Ongoing question: How much will Trump’s omnipresence impact midterms and other Republican candidates, even though Trump himself isn’t on the 2026 ballot?

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Mara Liasson:
  • “It’s not polling... This is the why.” (02:23)
• Ashley Lopez:
  • “The swing voters that... we heard from, the way in which Trump talks about his opponents... make their lives harder because they have to justify voting for Trump.” (05:48)
• Focus group—on Democrats:
  • “Distracted,” “Unprepared,” “Whiny,” “Scary,” “Corrupt,” “Weak.” (04:33-04:40)
• Focus group—on Republicans:
  • “Trump,” “Conservative,” “Outspoken,” “Patriotic,” “Immoral.” (04:46-04:52)
• Hasan (independent) on ICE:
  • “It’s not just, quote, unquote, dangerous folks that are getting deported. It’s folks that are not dangerous...” (08:01)
• Kimberly (independent) on the economy:
  • “I don’t see the president speaking to working individuals... he’s trying to get back at his political adversaries, I see a lot of that, but I don’t see... benefit the common person.” (12:48)
• Grace (Republican) on foreign policy & anxiety:
  • “When the invasion occurred with Venezuela... I don’t know what’s going to happen next...” (15:31)
• Rich Tao, moderator:
  • “Their frustration here is with the international activities... They think the president isn’t focused on what matters most to them day to day.” (16:35)

---

Conclusion

This episode introduced NPR’s in-depth focus group series with Pennsylvania swing voters. It revealed a complicated, dissatisfied electorate—frustrated with both parties, troubled by the economy, and weary of presidential distractions on divisive rhetoric and foreign interventions. Despite disappointment in Trump’s first year back in office, there’s little enthusiasm for switching back to the Democrats, hinting at a deeper malaise and political fatigue that could shape the 2026 midterms. Future episodes will revisit similar swing voters in other battleground states, tracking their shifting opinions as the political season unfolds.

Transcript

[A]

Support for NPR and the following message come from Warby Parker, the One Stop Shop for all your vision needs. They offer expertly crafted prescription eyewear plus contacts, eye exams and more for everything you need to see. Visit your nearest Warby Parker store or head to warbyparker.com.

[B]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast for Thursday, January 22, 2026. I'm Miles Parks and I cover voting.

[C]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[D]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[B]

And we are taping this at 1:06pm on Thursday. And today on the show, we are hearing directly from a very important group of voters and introducing a new recurring segment for the podcast, which we're super excited about. Ashley, you and Mara have put this all together. We are talking specifically about swing voters. These are voters who voted for Joe Biden in 2020, the Donald Trump in 2024. This is the holy grail for political reporters. Tell us more.

[C]

Right. So NPR is partnering with Engages and Sega, which are messaging experts and market researchers. And a big part of what they do is just try to figure out why people feel the way they feel about something. And Rich Tao at Engages, who came to NPR with this passion project of his partners with a media company to get a sense of what swing voters in swing states are thinking about when it comes to the news. And, I mean, there's a couple reasons of why this is super helpful to political reporters like Mara. For one, we don't really know sometimes what news and what messages get to voters. And that is a big part of what this discussion is. It's like, what news are you hearing and how are you hearing it? Where are you getting your information from? Another piece of this is from the perspective of a political reporter. When you go out into the campaign trail, meet voters the way you're meeting voters, there are people you just don't get to. And so if you think of things like political rallies, canvassing political events of any kind, those are already people who are either in a camp or pretty close to being solidly in a camp. And these are voters that are not in camps. And they're pretty persuadable, which is also a part of the electorate that is harder to find. So we are hearing straight from the horse's mouth, not just that they approve or disapprove something, but why?

[B]

Well, that's what I was gonna say is this does feel similar, I guess, to polling, Mara, but also really different.

[D]

Can you explain that? No, it's not polling. And that's really important. This is the why not? The this is not scientific. It's only a small group of voters. So we're not trying to extrapolate from their feelings to say, aha, public opinion is going in this direction. But we do want to know why they feel the way they do. And then later in the year, because we're going to do this once a month and you guys will be hearing from us once a month. We want to see how these feelings about the economy, about foreign policy affect their choice in the midterms. It's a little too early to really hold them down on that question, but that's what we're going to be looking for down the line.

[B]

Oh, it feels so useful. And we talk so much about how polarized the US Is. I do feel like a lot of people are like, cannot understand what other people who don't think exactly like them think. And they don't really understand the different ways in this changing world that people get information. And so I'm super excited to get this, like, kind of fly on the wall view of how people are thinking about politics in real time. Right?

[C]

Yeah. Most people that you meet are in a camp. They are either a Republican or Democrat. And as time has gone on in the past couple of decades, people have been more staunchly in one group or the other. But the people who are most politically important, like the people who really swing elections, are some of these persuadable independent or swing voters. Now, I wanna be clear, like, not all swing voters are independents. In the group that we talked to, for example, there were a lot of Republicans. It just so happened in this group. And that'll change over time. But these are folks who don't vote for one party, especially in elections.

[B]

And so let's dig into this first edition. Right. So this is a group of Pennsylvania voters, obviously a critical swing state in the presidential election. Seven of these people consider themselves Republicans, six consider themselves independents, one consider themselves Democrats. But again, these are people who all voted for Joe Biden in 2020 and Donald Trump in 2024. Let's talk big picture. How are these people feeling about the two parties right now?

[D]

Mara, the moderator of this focus group, asked them to use one word to describe each party. Let's start with the one word descriptions they used for the Democrats.

[C]

Distracted.

[E]

Unprepared.

[F]

Panicked.

[B]

Sensitive.

[D]

Whiny.

[E]

Scary.

[G]

Disoriented.

[H]

Corrupt.

[D]

Weak. Weak. Actually, two people said weak. Now let's hear what they had to say about Republicans. In one word.

[H]

Trump.

[B]

Weak.

[C]

Conservative.

[D]

Bewildered.

[B]

Outspoken.

[G]

Patriotic.

[D]

Loyal.

[F]

Immoral.

[D]

So they are swing voters. And one of the features that we know about swing voters is they don't like either party. That's why they swing. Otherwise they would just stick with their, you know, their party. But I think this shows you how sour the electorate is this year.

[B]

Yeah, totally. And I mean, gosh, man, I'm so excited to hear from these people all year. I'm, like, chomping at the bit to hear about each individual issue. I guess give us some big picture thoughts on that, on what is happening in the world right now. What were your guys takeaways?

[D]

Well, my big takeaway was they are focused on the economy. They feel that foreign policy in ICE is almost a distraction from what they care about. They're not so happy about some of Trump's foreign policy. Whether that will affect their vote, we don't know. We'll try to figure that out down the line. But my takeaway is that they felt that Washington in general was not paying attention to what they care about.

[C]

I also heard a lot of voters complain about the style still that Trump employs when he talks about politics. Like the meanness, the divisiveness, the, you know, the arrogance came up a lot. A lot of the swing voters that, you know, we heard from, I heard time and time again that the way in which Trump talks about his opponents, his political opponents in particular, make their lives harder because they have to justify voting for Trump all the time. And they feel like this puts them in a weird position with other people. That is a thing that I heard from at least two people where they're like, it makes my life harder when Trump is so divisive and they. And they wish that his style were different. But this is an evergreen thing. I feel like we've been hearing this from even people who support Trump for a really long time now.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like that's less. That would have been less surprising to hear in a focus group in 2017 after people had first voted for him. But these are people who've been experiencing the Donald Trump experience for 10 years, and they're still like, gosh, I wish that he would talk about these issues with a little bit more tact. I guess it sounds like I do want to drill down on immigration is one of the things that I really am interested to hear about this group of voters because this feels like one of the defining policies of the second Trump term. How did this group of swing voters talk about it?

[D]

I think that we did not see pushback against the general idea that undocumented immigrants who've committed crimes should be deported. And we know that from polling. And these focus group participants were no different. But people are not so crazy about detaining and arresting people who don't have a criminal record. And at least one of our focus group members brought up ICE detaining US Citizens.

[C]

Yeah. And I will say, like, overall, the majority of voters here say that they think ICE is getting this right. You know, it's eight out of the 14, but there were six people, I'm talking about six people who voted for Donald Trump. With immigration being the key issue in the news, and Trump talking about immigration the way he was talking about immigration, they feel that ICE is going too far. Here's a clip from one of those voters. His name is Hasan, and he's an independent voter. He identifies as an independent.

[F]

It's not just, quote, unquote, dangerous folks that are getting deported. It's folks that are not dangerous. You know, it's leading to people being profiled. People, you know, if you have an accent, you're pretty much subject to, you know, ICE going after you in some form or fashion.

[B]

I should also note that we're going to be referring to these voters by their first name because that's part of the agreement that they signed when they, you know, signed up to do this focus group.

[C]

Yeah. So a lot of voters felt like ICE was getting kind of out of hand. But in general, I will say I heard from a lot of independent voters specifically say that they were happy about specifically the border being closed. This was something that they were praising Trump about. Now, how immigration enforcement is going on in the interior seems to be a place where voters want to see some change.

[D]

And we do know from polling, not from our focus group, that immigration has been Trump's best issue, except for now, some polls are showing that he's even underwater on that.

[B]

Well, it seems the recent shooting of Renee Macklin Goode, it felt like in the moment that that potentially could be one of these turning point moments on a key issue ahead of midterms. But one thing that really struck me in these results from this focus group is that most of the people did not connect this shooting to Trump, even though, you know, obviously the president has really owned immigration and increased immigration enforcement, and the shoot was done by an ICE officer. These people did not seem to connect the two things. Am I right?

[C]

Right. It was like two out of the 14 folks who said that Trump carries any blame for this. And the reason I heard a lot is Trump can't control what individual ICE agents do. Like, yes, you can send them over to do their job, but how they carry that out is an open question. They did, however, express a lot of concern about the training that ICE officers are receiving. They have a lot of concerns about why that agent felt like taking out a gun and shooting someone so close was even warranted. Like a couple people said, like, why didn't he shoot the tire, you know, when, when Renee Goode was in her vehicle. So, I mean, that is one place where, yes, Trump did play a role in sending ICE agents out there. But the voters don't seem to connect that to what ended up happening.

[D]

Our voters in this tiny sample.

[C]

In this tiny sample, we gotta be careful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But this is really about just adding nuance to the numbers. Cause the numbers support this, that basically after the, the breakdown of how people felt about this shooting, there wasn't some universal understanding of how people should feel about this shooting. And I should just note that there are still a lot of unanswered questions about this shooting. And we're still awaiting the results of an investigation into exactly what happened. All right, let's take a quick break and more on all of this in just a moment.

[H]

This message comes from Babbel. Babbel's conversation based language technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world with lessons handcraft crafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com NPR spelled B A B B E L.com NPR rules and restrictions may apply. This message comes From NPR sponsor 1Password. Anyone else feel like 99% of your emails and texts are password reset codes trusted by millions of users and over 175,000 businesses? 1Password lets you skip the resets and sign in securely. With strong unique passwords that autofill across all your devices. You can safely share logins, store cards and files. And finally, stop using your pet's name as a password. Try it free for two [e-mail] NPR.

[A]

This message comes from Olli offering their daily probiotic gummies. Probiotics are the good bacteria that support your digestive and immune system. Go to o l l y.com to do something for your gut. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[B]

And we're back and Ashley, I want to talk about the economy now because this was a big part of why Donald Trump was elected in 2024. Voters concerns about rising prices and the broader direction of the country economically. What are voters saying right now? What are these voters saying right now?

[C]

They feel really bad about the economy. A lot of voters said they feel more anxiety now about the economy than they did before Trump took office. Even though they voted for Trump, a lot of them with the hopes of the economy improving. There's one voter that I want to highlight, Kimberly. She's an independent voter. She is one of the many voters who said that this is one place where they do squarely blame Trump for how they feel. And in particular, she feels like Trump is not doing enough to address the concerns of working class people.

[E]

You know, aside from gas being down, aside from the border being closed, those are two great things. But I really don't see the President speaking to working individuals. And I think working individuals are like a element that have been forgotten by both parties. But he's trying to get back at his political adversaries. I see a lot of that, but I don't see, you know, things really happening that's going to benefit the common person.

[C]

And she even went on at one point to say that, you know, him focusing so much on political adversaries was another area where she's like, what is he doing? I want him to focus on, you know, pocketbook issues, you know, the economy, the things that I voted for him to solve.

[B]

Do you feel like he's gonna hear this message, Mara? I mean, if this group of voters who seem to be the reason he's in the White House are still really unhappy with his record on the economy or what he's doing on the economy, is he gonna take that cue this year?

[D]

Well, that's the big question. The White House certainly wants him to. They send him out to event after event to talk about the economy and affordability and to explain exactly what he's gonna do about it, not just say how great the economy is. Because for voters who don't feel the economy is great, they don't like it when a politician tells them that there's something wrong with them, that they can't see how great it is. So I think it's a real problem. I mean, the White House wants him. And they said that he's going to be spending once a week going around the country to an event. Now we'll see if that actually happens. But the President these days seems much more interested in not just prosecuting his adversaries, but also in foreign policy. And that's something that our focus group wasn't thrilled about. They didn't mind the raid to get Maduro, but they weren't so happy with the idea of ongoing military interventions around the world.

[B]

Was that based on opinions about how America should be interacting with the world or this idea that he's just distracted from the focus?

[D]

I think it was a distraction. I think that's the takeaway I had. I don't think these people were that clear as to why exactly we're doing these things, that they did understand that Maduro was a bad guy, they were for removing him. But no, I think it was because it was a distraction because he was so focused on that and not on the things that they care about. We did hear from Kimberly about Gaspard prices going down. Other people in our focus group mentioned that that's a plus for the president on that one. It's working. Gas prices are coming down, but not a lot of other prices are coming down. Grace, who was one of our focus group participants, talked about the raid in Venezuela and other foreign policy interventions, and she connected it to her economic anxiety, which was so interesting to me. And Rich Tao is the moderator. You'll hear his voice in this clip.

[G]

When the invasion occurred with Venezuela, no one in America had any idea that that was going to happen. We just turned on the news and they went in in darkness and it just happened. So now I feel like, what's next? Like, I have this feeling of I don't know what's going to happen next.

[I]

And that's causing economic anxiety for you, correct?

[D]

Yeah. So that was so interesting to me because when things feel out of control or chaotic, this is not unlike Covid and Trump' first term. People took it out on him. And the question is, if everything stays easy peasy and you can just pluck out Maduro or back away from taking over Greenland, I think it'll be okay. But these voters, their concern about Trump being distracted is making them more worried about the economy.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Grace is a Republican, self identified Republican voter and she overall likes the job that Trump is doing. But, you know, this is something that Rich Tao told me has been a liability for Trump for a long time. The more he focuses on other things swing voters are noticing, there's a concern.

[I]

That he's trying to do too much on too many things and he's not singularly focused on the thing that matters to most of them, which is their pocketbooks. Their frustration here is with the international activities Greenland, Venezuela, Iran, Ukraine, Gaza, go down the list. They think the president isn't focused on what matters most to them day to day.

[B]

And I will also note, one of these voters also talked about how they felt like they voted for him because they thought he was going to be a more isolationist president, and they're unhappy with the fact that he is making his presence known on the world stage in the way he has. I mean, what can you guys say broadly about how these Trump voters feel about how Trump's doing in office one year in?

[D]

I think that they haven't broken with him in a dramatic fashion, but they have a lot of concerns, and this isn't exactly what they thought they would be getting. I think there's a little Byers remorse, but I'm not seeing the people who voted for him in 24 just abandoning him, at least based on our group.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, overall, like eight of the 14 voters that we heard from, they said they disapprove of Trump's job performance so far. However, you would think with those kind of numbers, you would hear someone at least being, I don't know, Democrat, curious or something. I did not get a sense of that, but I didn't hear that they were feeling any sort of remorse for their vote for Trump. For the exception of maybe two people who said that they kind of wish they voted for Kamala Harris during the 2024 election. They also feel a lot of frustration towards the Democrats, which we heard in the beginning. You know, even though Trump is not doing what they want, I think a lot of them said, even when it comes to the economy, they're willing to wait and see. And I should note, when asked who they blame for the economy, a big chunk of them still blame Joe Biden for the state of the economy. Now, they said, in a year. Ask me that again, because I think that will be Trump's economy.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And that's one of Trump's most repeated messages.

[B]

So then, moving forward, I mean, we're gonna do this again in a month. Where are we headed, guys? And what are you gonna be watching for?

[C]

We're headed to Arizona. Well, not physically.

[D]

These are Zoom focus groups.

[C]

Yeah, these are zoom focus groups, but we're gonna be hearing from swing voters, of course, Biden in 2020, Trump in 2024 voters, but in Arizona.

[D]

And what I'm gonna be watching for is how much of their feelings about Trump, because let's face it, Trump is kind of all present all the time. How much of that affects their choice for the midterms as they start turning their attention to it. He's not on the ballot in 2026, but because he's such an all encompassing figure and he kind of sucks all the oxygen out of the room, what I'm wondering is, do their feelings about him affect their feelings about Republican candidates?

[B]

All right. Well, we can leave it there for today. Be sure to join us tomorrow as we wrap up another busy week in Washington. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[C]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[D]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[B]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast. Foreign.

[H]

This message comes from netsuite Every business is asking, how can they make AI work for them? No more waiting. With Netsuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today. Trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It's the unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM into a single source of truth. That connected data is what makes your AI smarter, helping you make fast decisions. Right now. Get the business guide demystifying AI [e-mail] story support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. [e-mail] Washingtonwise this message comes from Bombas.

[A]

Your feet hit the ground an average of 2,000 times in a mile. Bombus Sports socks are designed to support you every step. Sprint to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.