Why Trump Says He Wants To Send The National Guard To Chicago And Portland

Summary

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The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Why Trump Says He Wants To Send The National Guard To Chicago And Portland
Date: October 8, 2025
Host(s): Tamara Keith, Domenico Montanaro, Tom Bowman, Ryan Lucas

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Main Theme

This episode explores President Trump's latest efforts to deploy the National Guard to Democratic-led cities like Portland and Chicago amid rhetoric about crime and immigration, sparking both legal challenges and criticisms of federal overreach. The team unpacks the legal, political, and practical context behind these moves, contrasting them with more locally-invited National Guard deployments, and discussing the sharp partisan and public divides around using military forces for domestic law enforcement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Status of National Guard Deployments

• [01:21–01:38] President Trump has attempted to deploy the National Guard in cities such as Portland and Chicago. Tom Bowman clarifies the current status:
  • The Guard has not yet deployed to those cities.
  • In Portland, a federal judge blocked the decision pending appeals.
  • In Chicago, a couple of hundred Illinois Guards are prepping for crowd control, while 200 Texas Guardsmen may soon protect ICE facilities.
• Notably, these moves face both legal hurdles and logistical complexity.

2. Trump’s Public Justifications

• [02:36–03:24] Tamara Keith and Domenico Montanaro discuss Trump's reasoning:
  • He cites illegal immigration and crime as primary justifications, emphasizing a failure of "radical left Democratic mayors" to control the situation.
  • Trump uses stark, often incendiary language, e.g., calling Portland a "war zone" and saying, "Chicago mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ICE officers. Exclamation point. Governor Pritzker also exclamation point." — Tamara Keith quoting Trump [03:05]

3. Legal and Political Implications

• [03:54–06:00] The team breaks down the legality:
  • Trump uses terms like "insurrection" to justify federalizing the Guard, which under Title 10, Section 12406, allows the president to intervene during invasions, rebellions, or if locals can't handle the situation.
  • The Insurrection Act (1807) historically enables this, though it has not been formally invoked yet; Trump publicly threatens to invoke it if courts or politicians hinder his actions.
• Tom Bowman recounts:
  "If you look at what's going on in the streets of Portland, I mean, it's quite mild there... there's clearly no war zone there, no insurrection." [03:54]

4. Military Concerns and the Blurring of Civil-Military Lines

• [06:39–07:56] Trump’s remarks about using cities as "training grounds" for military personnel trouble many military officials:
  • Bowman notes pushback: "They didn't sign up for the military to go after their own citizens. And clearly, cities are not training ground for the military." [06:53]
  • The episode highlights concerns over politicization, breaches of the apolitical tradition, and the danger posed by Trump’s language to constitutional norms.

5. Political Motivation and States’ Rights

• [08:02–09:15] The discussion underscores the political optics:
  • Trump is seen as targeting Democrat-led cities for political advantage, potentially distracting from faltering public perception of his economic performance.
  • Domenico: "It's states rights if conservatives are running those states, and it's not if Democrats are, because they feel like Democrats aren't doing the right thing." [09:15]

6. Comparison: Invited vs. Imposed National Guard Deployments

• [11:01–14:48] Ryan Lucas provides a contrasting example:
  • In Albuquerque, NM, the Democratic governor and mayor jointly invited the National Guard to assist with crime, focusing on "civilianization": Guards in polo shirts perform administrative tasks to free up police time; they do not perform law enforcement or appear militarized.
  • Mayor Tim Keller claims a resultant drop in crime; notably, community input is mixed, with some, like Dan Williams of the NM ACLU, warning, "It normalizes the idea of the military doing civilian law enforcement, which is a tradition almost as old as this country that we reject." [15:34]
  • This model is sharply contrasted with Trump's forced deployments.

7. Public Opinion and Media Influence

• [16:27–18:52] Domenico shares polling data:
  • Americans are split: 52% favor, 47% oppose using the National Guard in domestic crime-fighting; support is highly partisan.
  • Quote from Republican respondent Keith Herpe:
    “Entities such as, you know, the National Guard or whatever go in and to cities like Chicago and Seattle and Portland and where we’re having problems and, and fix the problem, which some people might view that as violence. I don’t. You’re putting down an insurrection, you’re doing your job. That’s what I believe.” [17:37]
  • Media diet significantly shapes public perceptions—Fox News’s coverage, for example, often depicts selected cities as chaotic "war zones," in contrast with on-the-ground realities and crime data.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump’s Rhetoric and Threats

  • "Chicago mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ICE officers. Exclamation point. Governor Pritzker also exclamation point."
    – Tamara Keith quoting Trump [03:05]

• Blurring Civil-Military Boundaries

  • "They didn't sign up for the military to go after their own citizens. And clearly, cities are not training ground for the military."
    – Tom Bowman [06:53]

• Albuquerque as a Positive Case Study

  • "We brought in the National Guard in cooperation together in polo shirts and with no law enforcement ability at all and no fatigues and no military vehicles, and all they do is all the civilian work that was tying up the officer's time."
    – Domenico Montanaro quoting Mayor Tim Keller [12:16]

• ACLU Concerns

  • "It normalizes the idea of the military doing civilian law enforcement, which is a tradition almost as old as this country that we reject."
    – Dan Williams, ACLU New Mexico (quoted by Ryan Lucas) [15:34]

• Public Opinion Polarization

  • “Entities such as, you know, the National Guard ... go in and ... fix the problem, which some people might view that as violence. I don't. You're putting down an insurrection, you're doing your job.”
    – Keith Herpe, Georgia Republican voter [17:37]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:21 – Introduction to discussion of Guard deployments in Chicago/Portland
• 02:36 – Trump’s justifications and rhetoric
• 03:54 – Analysis of legality, use of “insurrection” language
• 06:39 – Military’s response to Trump’s desire to use U.S. troops in cities
• 08:02 – Political motivations behind Trump’s actions
• 11:01 – Albuquerque’s locally-invited and demilitarized National Guard deployment
• 14:17 – Community and ACLU reactions in Albuquerque
• 16:27 – Polling data and partisan divides
• 17:37 – Republican voter’s perspective
• 18:27 – How media shapes perception & why “invited” Guard deployments get less attention
• 19:39 – Historical context and concluding thoughts

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Takeaways

• Trump's deployment of the National Guard to opposition-led cities is legally and politically contentious, and often at odds with crime data and local leadership perspectives.
• The contrasting case of Albuquerque demonstrates that locally-invited, non-militarized Guard support can help address immediate needs without invoking controversy or undermining local autonomy.
• Public opinion is sharply divided along partisan lines, with media narratives heavily influencing perceptions of urban security and the appropriateness of military involvement in civilian law enforcement.

This episode provides valuable context for understanding the intersection of politics, law, and public sentiment surrounding the deployment of military forces inside the United States.

Transcript

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of FRESH AIR. Hey, take a break from the 24 hour news cycle with us and listen to long form interviews with your favorite authors, actors, filmmakers, comedians and musicians, the people making the art that nourishes us and speaks to our times. So listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy.

[Tamara Keith]

Hi, this is Jenna calling from beautiful Bonners Ferry, Idaho.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm wrapping up the day at my.

[Tamara Keith]

Sourdough bakery, shaping dough for the last farmer's market of the season. This podcast was recorded at 1:36pm on Wednesday, October 8. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will be busy working on all of the delicious.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Flavors that fall has to offer.

[Tamara Keith]

Enjoy the show. I love, love, love sourdough. And during the pandemic, I had a starter or yeast a lot. Sadly, he has passed.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm trying to think of the rap lyric first. I like big buns.

[Tamara Keith]

And I cannot believe.

[Domenico Montanaro]

There you go.

[Tamara Keith]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Tom Bowman]

I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Tamara Keith]

And today on the show, we're talking about President Trump's decision to deploy National Guard troops to American cities. He, he did it in D.C. now he's trying to do it in Portland, Oregon and the Chicago area. Tom, has the Guard arrived in those cities now? What's the latest?

[Tom Bowman]

They've not deployed yet. There are also California National Guard troops that were sent by President Trump. He's basically taken over the Guard in Oregon. But a federal judge said, listen, we don't think this is legal. The Trump administration has appealed. And in Chicago, we have a couple of hundred Illinois Guard ready to take to the streets. They're going through some training now in crowd control. They could be moving to the streets in the next few days. Also, the Texas Guard has sent in 200 Texas Guardsmen. I'm told they could be protecting an ICE facility in Chicago as early as this afternoon.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, like with so many other things with Trump, I mean, it's really another effort by him to really try to consolidate power that is going to be tested obviously in the courts as well. But Tam, I'm wondering what has Trump actually said about any of this and his reasons for sending the Guard to those cities?

[Tamara Keith]

He talks about two things. One, cracking down on illegal immigration, getting people out of the country who are in the country now who, who he says shouldn't be there. And then also the idea that all these cities are run by radical left Democratic mayors who are not being helpful in immigration enforcement or in cracking down on crime. He talks a lot about crime in the cities. That was a big part of his justification. Into Washington, D.C. and just today, President Trump put out a post on social media saying, quote, chicago mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ICE officers. Exclamation point. Governor Pritzker also exclamation point. So he described in Portland, Oregon, as a war zone. He's using very stark language.

[Domenico Montanaro]

He loves to invoke jail. I mean, this is a thing that he talks about quite a bit, and we don't know that he's actually gonna go through with any of that kind of thing to kind of go after, you know, someone like Pritzker or the mayor of Chicago. But, you know, it certainly raises alarm bells when you have a president who's looking to take control of the National Guard and then threatening to put people who are political foes, ostensibly, in his view, in prison.

[Tamara Keith]

And it certainly gets to some of his justification for federalizing the Guard that these mayors won't go along.

[Tom Bowman]

Well, actually, it doesn't, because if you look at what's going on in the streets of Portland, I mean, it's quite mild there. And also there were protests at the ICE facility outside of Portland, but there's clearly no war zone there, no insurrection. And in Chicago, a little more violent. A woman was shot by federal agents. She was carrying a gun, according to federal officials. But again, doesn't rise to the level of insurrection.

[Tamara Keith]

Tom, you mentioned the word insurrection. That is a word the president has been using a lot. He described what's happening in Portland as an insurrection. So why. Why that word? What is the significance there?

[Tom Bowman]

Well, a president has a right to take over a state's Guard. Now, the Guard is basically run by the governor, but a president can't take over the Guard. It's called federalizing it. And NPR got a hold of a memo from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that laid this out, and he cited, get this, title 10124 06. So we all know what that's about, right?

[Tamara Keith]

No.

[Tom Bowman]

Well, it basically does say the president can't take over the Guard for a foreign invasion, a rebellion, or if the locals can't handle it. So that's why they're doing it. And what Hegseth wants the Guard to do is to protect ICE facilities in Chicago and also accompany ICE agents as well as federal agents while they're doing their duties, going after undocumented migrants and.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Certainly in his first term, Trump threatened to take military action in American cities and said that he would invoke the Insurrection Act. You know, saying that if a city or state refused to take the actions necessary, then he would deploy the U.S. military to, quote, quickly solve the problem for them. And the Insurrection act is an 1807 law that essentially authorizes the president to be able to call forth militia for the purpose of suppressing insurrection in those cities if it's deemed to be something that's happening in those places. And certainly there's a lot of evidence that Trump has been able to convince his base that that's happening.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. I think it's important to note here that he has not yet invoked the Insurrection Act.

[Tom Bowman]

Correct.

[Tamara Keith]

He's mentioned it is sort of a political third rail. However, he has said multiple times, I haven't done it yet, but I could. And if the courts or politicians get in my way, then I. Maybe I will. So it's sort of dangling out there. Tom, I want to play a little clip of tape from a speech that President Trump gave last week before an audience of generals and admirals who had been flown in from all over the world. It was this meeting in Northern Virginia that was called by the Defense secretary, and President Trump talked about his desire to use the military on US Soil.

[Domenico Montanaro]

We should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military. National Guard, but military, because we're going into Chicago very soon. That's a big city with an incompetent governor. Stupid. Governor. Stupid.

[Tom Bowman]

No. That troubled a lot of military people I spoke with. They didn't sign up for the military to go after their own citizens. And clearly, cities are not training ground for the military. They go after foreign enemies. They do not go after their own citizens.

[Tamara Keith]

Traditionally, there is a pretty big separation between politics and the military.

[Tom Bowman]

No, absolutely. And if you listen to the speech that he gave at Quantico, he mentioned Biden maybe a half dozen times, trashed these mayors from some of these cities. Clearly out of line for a military audience. It was clearly political. But this is par for the course with Trump. Remember, during the first term, he talked about my generals. And back during Trump's first term, I was talking with this general who was talking to Trump about and explaining to him that the military is apolitical. It's always been that way. And he can advise the president, but he's not really part of his administration. Again, he's separate. He's apolitical. And Trump said, really? Well, we can change that. You bring me a bill and I'll sign it Domenico.

[Tamara Keith]

How relevant are the politics of the places where President Trump is sending the guardians?

[Domenico Montanaro]

He has a better opportunity to send National Guard into places that welcome them, obviously. But, you know, when he talks about places like Chicago and New York and so many of these cities that are run by Democratic mayors, it certainly feels like he's doing this intentionally to try to stir up, you know, political opposition. And, you know, you can't help but think that he's maybe distracting from other things, because the economy, first of all, is seen as still the top issue for a lot of people. And when you look at polling about his economic handling, it's down, down in the 30s, which is very different than where he was in his first term, where people saw that as relative strength. And they don't anymore. I mean, there was a recent Harvard Harris poll, for example, that found that 52% of people think that his policies on the economy are resulting in fewer jobs. 56% said that they think that he's losing the battle against inflation, and 58% said that they think tariffs are harming the economy. So he'd rather not talk about that and be talking more about these political opponents and a perception of crime in places where the data show crime is going down.

[Tamara Keith]

We've heard a lot about states rights over the years, and this would seem to be sort of upside down from where Republicans traditionally are about the relationship between states and the federal government.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, I think that when it comes to Trump, it's states rights if conservatives are running those states, and it's not if Democrats are, because they feel like Democrats aren't doing the right thing. So, you know, I mean, it's not really a core central ideology I think you can argue Republicans hold right now, especially during this era of Trumpism.

[Tamara Keith]

All right, we're going to let you go, Tom. Thank you for being here.

[Tom Bowman]

You're welcome.

[Tamara Keith]

And we have to take a quick break, but we will have more in.

[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Tamara Keith]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Ryan Lucas]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Ryan Lucas]

Join me and my fellow reporters as.

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[Ryan Lucas]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Tamara Keith]

And we're back. And justice correspondent Ryan Lucas joins us now. Hey, Ryan.

[Ryan Lucas]

Hi there.

[Tamara Keith]

So we've been talking about the Trump administration's use of the National Guard to assist with crime fighting efforts. Ryan, you've been reporting on a similar use of the National Guard in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Tell us about what you found.

[Ryan Lucas]

It's similar, but very different. And it's different because this is not an instance in which President Trump has sent in the National Guard against the wishes of the mayor. What happened in Albuquerque is earlier this year, the Democratic governor of the state along with the Democratic mayor of Albuquerque and the police chief got together and decided that it would be helpful to have members of the New Mexico National Guard assist the Albuquerque Police Department when it comes to issues of crime in the city. Crime has been a big challenge in Albuquerque. And I talked to the to the city's mayor about it, Tim Keller, and he has a very positive view on this. But he says that what this has done has helped the city kind of get a grip on a very challenging problem that it's had with, with crime for a long time. And he said that in the past nine months. So this year, crime has fallen across all major categories in the city. And he attributes at least part of that to the health that the National Guard has given.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's a concept called civilianization. It's also widely now studied by the big city police, mayors and chiefs and their different associations. And the idea is in the modern era, you want civilians doing as much as possible freeing up officers to fight violent crime. So we brought in the National Guard in cooperation together in polo shirts and with no law enforcement ability at all and no fatigues and no military vehicles, and all they do is all the civilian work that was tying up the officer's time.

[Tamara Keith]

That sounds remarkably different from politicians in Oregon and Illinois right now who are describing an invasion. This was an invitation. It seems very different from the way President Trump is handling some of these other cities.

[Ryan Lucas]

It's very different. It's also interesting, the Albuquerque model in particular, because during Trump's first administration, in the summer of 2020, the first Trump administration sent a surge of federal law enforcement, FBI, DEA to nine cities to help crack down on violent crime because crime was soaring. One of those cities that they were sent to was Albuquerque. This is a DOJ operation called Operation Legend. And talking to the Albuquerque mayor about this, Tim Keller, he said that presidential led effort, that Trump administration led effort had zero impact on crime in Albuquerque. He said crime was going up before the operation, during the operation, and afterwards it had no effect. And what you see now is the city working in coordination with the governor, using the assets that they have with the National Guard. And he says that this has been much more effective. And I also asked the mayor, I said, is there any kind of situation in which you would welcome help from the administration in tackling crime in the city? And he told me no. He said he just doesn't trust the administration, that the folks they would be sent in would be sent in to do the mission that they were ostensibly there to conduct.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And that's very different. Right. I mean, there's a difference between invasions and invitations. I mean, if you think about like a wedding, there might be somebody who you don't want at the wedding and you don't invite them, but somebody else might want them at that wedding. You don't want them crashing your wedding if you don't want them there. Right. I mean, it's very different. I mean, there've been times that these states have asked for help and they can coordinate, but that's different than a president federally sterilizing those troops.

[Tamara Keith]

Ryan, is it is the difference here that sort of the local directed approach is more responsive to the local needs?

[Ryan Lucas]

I think that there's some of that, yes. And some of what the mayor said this deployment is doing is helping the city deal with a shortage of police officers. And he acknowledges that this is very much a short term solution to a longer term problem. He said that he envisions this deployment lasting through the end of the year, maybe through next summer. But what it's helped them do is kind of bridge, he says, a retirement bulge that they have right now so that the police work can still get done, but long term they are going to have to hire more officers. I will also say I spoke to members of the community in Albuquerque to try to get a sense of how it's perceived there. And Keller, I will say, did acknowledge that there are mixed reviews. And so I talked to a couple people, one is Dan Williams from the ACLU of New Mexico. And he had his concerns about the National Guard. We're very worried that even though it is different than what President Trump has done in Washington, D.C. and Memphis and other places, it normalizes the idea of the military doing civilian law enforcement, which is a tradition almost as old as this country that we reject. And we worry that it fuels over policing, mass surveillance in the communities who are the most vulnerable to that in New Mexico. So we do have some pretty significant concerns still. And there are others who just have concerns that the way that the money's being spent could be better spent on community services and that in some instances adding police, in their view, it adds to what they view as an over policing.

[Tom Bowman]

Hmm.

[Tamara Keith]

Domenico, more broadly, and this is asking you to pull back a fair bit, but what is public support like for using the National Guard to help with crime fighting?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, people are very split on this. I mean, the latest NPR PBS News Marist poll, for example, we asked whether or not people wanted National Guard to come in to be able to be used to support local law enforcement and fight crime by 5247 margin. They said they did. But that was mostly because of just how in favor Republicans are for this. 89% of Republicans said that they would be in favor of this. 50% said so strongly. On the other side, 76% of Democrats were against it, 61% strongly against it. So very, very different views. Independents pretty much split down the middle and to the point of Republicans being as in favor as they actually are. I spoke with Keith Herpe from Georgia, who was one of the respondents to the poll. And here's what he had to say about the Guard. Entities such as, you know, the National Guard or whatever go in and to cities like Chicago and Seattle and Portland and where we're having problems and, and fix the problem, which some people might view that as violence. I don't. I just. You're putting down an insurrection. You're, you're doing your job. That's, that's what I believe. I think that's what the majority of Americans believe. It's certainly what all my friends and neighbors believe. And I think that really speaks to the perceived realities that are very different for a lot of people. If you're just watch Fox News, you might see images of places like Portland and Chicago that appear that the place is burning or looks like some kind of a war zone, maybe even using old footage of it when the data say something very different.

[Ryan Lucas]

Yeah, I think you really point to an important aspect of this, Domenico, that one's perceptions of this are very much going to depend on the media that you're consuming. And there is an actual reality, there are actual facts as to what's going on. But people's perceptions are going to differ greatly depending on where they're getting their news.

[Tamara Keith]

And if you're getting your news from President Trump, then the message is very dire about the state of American cities. So Albuquerque is a place where the National Guard has been deployed with apparent success, limited pushback. Why are the places where the Guard is invited getting so much less focus from the White House than the areas where they're not welcome, but they're going in by force?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, some people would argue that he wants the controversy, you know, to be able to say that there's violence, maybe even the protests that they can show as violence. But other states really don't want them there. They feel like they can handle the situations in their cities and states and they want to protect their sovereignty. You know, we should say, though, other presidents have gone in against the wishes of those states. People might remember in the 60s, John F. Kennedy, Jr. Going in to enforce integration in schools and college. And, you know, so I think that he might point to something like that as his reasoning, saying, oh, look at all these problems in these places. And that's how he keeps his base in line, even though the reality just isn't that.

[Tamara Keith]

All right. Well, we are going to leave it there for today. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Ryan Lucas]

I'm Ryan Lucas. I cover the Justice Department.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Tamara Keith]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Tom Bowman]

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