B (8:42)

Absolutely. So transitioning from survival to clearly thriving, that's the goal. You know, everyone is left smiling for the economy and whatever kind of free time one can rest away from their life is what allows them opportunities to reflect and introspect. This brings, I think, into sharp focus the concept of survival. What were the moments when survival and stigma collided most painfully for you?

C (9:10)

Survival and stigma? That's a good question. Yeah, I think you Know, there was a lot of grief with that. Right. Like, the path I chose for my life, to your point, like, I. I wanted to have more than the bare minimum, and I didn't fit, like, a traditional mold. I didn't want to just, you know, go work a job. So. And that was a conscious choice. But with that comes a lot of stigma and a lot of grief. I think that's complex, like nav as, especially as men, like, navigating masculinity in our culture. I navigated that via, like, you know, college sports and then just growing up in our culture. Like, there's a lot of pressure on men to fit a certain mold. And being like a gentle, sweet, or even like, slightly effeminate man is like, you know, an alienating thing to move through. And I think I had a lot of resentment. Well, I know I had a lot of resentment. And to tie this in, I think, additionally, like, choosing sex work, particularly, like, the. The gay portions of it, and being loud about it was like, a deliberate choice to be contrarian and to sort of be like, you know, this. I can be, you know, I'm a man. Like, what is a man? I'm a man. I can do these things and I can be loud about them, and it doesn't matter what, whatever, you know, circles, you know, I came from, what they think about me. But within that, yeah, there's a lot of grief. Right? Like, choosing to do that and kind of, like, loudly, unabashedly, be who you are comes with a lot of grief and stigma. You know, sex work alone has a lot of stigma than, like, engaging in anything that isn't heteronormative comes with a lot of stigma. You know, it's complex, like, the notion of, like, survival and also, like, you know, I chose it, but I don't know that I could have chosen anything else, you know, because it. It would be inauthentic. Right? And that was like. That's been. The thing to me is, like, living is like living authentically or. And surviving, you know, as opposed to, like, living inauthentically and kind of passing through society. Like, you know, I was a big. I'm a big, masculine white guy. Like, I could have, you know, pushed things down and been like, oh, go be a cop. You know, like, you know, I could have made that choice, but I think that would have been like, a spiritually dead sort of choice for my life. And it was more, yeah, alive. It was more alive. It was more authentic for me to be contrarian, to kind of like, be A little punk rock and try to push against these traditional means of thinking. And that kind of like encapsulated my whole career really. You know, the, the whole point, your whole porn career in these days exists on the Twitterverse, like the, you know, on the Internet. So that's like all these little, these echoes of me all over the Internet kind of calling out because I, I just identified early on I was like, why am I doing this? You know, like, why am I doing this? And it's like, well, what else was I going to do? You know, like, if I wanted to be myself and to make any level of money and make a difference and like for people to see me, like, you know, I want to be seen and heard. I always, I make, I always joke that like we thirst trap people into class consciousness or we thirst trap people into consciousness in general. So I'd always use like my pornography or, you know, whatever glimmers of me are on the Internet to be like, hey, you know, I am doing this because society is, is designed in a way that made it so. This was the only way that I was going to have any reasonable amount of income and remain myself and just kind of like putting that in people's faces and then being like, also, I'm selling you a product, so you should go buy it. You know, I'm like, the, the, the irony of that. Right, the irony of that.

B (13:35)

Do you think the discourse on morality and sex work distracts us from the systemic failures underneath?

C (13:42)

Oh, 100. Yeah, that's definitely a. Yeah, that's a, that's very astute. And that's. Yeah. I mean, on the nose. Yeah. 100. I think that's a trick that they use. Right. And for why? Like, why. You know, it's just like the criminalization of this. So they can, you know, keep us in poverty. Right. So they can keep like, keep the system in place. They're going to criminalize sex work, which is, you know, what, what is morality? That's like such a subjective thing. But to focus on that. Yeah. Is a clever little trick for sure and very well dogmatic and rooted in very warped perceptions of like Christian Judeo thinking, like the like modern, just heteronormative Western philosophy that just like, is dead. Like rooted in what, like immoral how, you know, you know, like, and like an argument from that. Like I, I don't even know that there would be like a well articulated argument. Like, I'm not even sure what their argument might be.

B (14:54)

If you're willing to conjecture on the subject. If Society were rebuilt on justice rather than judgment, what role would. Would sex work play in it?

C (15:05)

It's an interesting question. I'm not sure what role sex work would play in a society built on justice and not judgment. I don't know. I don't know what that society looks like. I think, what is justice? A society built on consent, I guess, on consent, on equal opportunity, where people have equal access to resources. Not sure what sex work would look like in. In that environment where, like, people have equal access to, like, housing and equal access to food and support. I'm not sure where sex work would fit into that. Maybe, you know, it'd be less of. Oh, man, I'm going to do this because that's the easiest way to make, you know, money. If a society built on justice, I don't know that there would be money. I think there'd just be people that had access to resources. So maybe, you know, maybe people will be like, you know, if you me a few more sacks of potatoes all. I don't. I don't know. I don't know that it would even exist, you know, like, because you wouldn't have to do things like that in a society built in justice. I think you would just have sex for fun, you know, I don't know that you would. You would have to do any kind of work that you don't want to do In a society built on justice beyond, like, you know, contributing to the. The common whole of, like, you know, providing resources for people. Like, I don't know that maybe it wouldn't exist. You know, maybe it is a result of. A. Result of people who don't have any other, you know, because it's like this trade. Like we trade money for survival or like, we trade goods for survival. But if everyone had access to these things, and I don't know that we would have to trade sex to survive. You know, I think we just do it because it was fun and, like, enriching.

B (16:58)

You've discussed both the promise and the pitfalls of plant medicine in the past. Where do you feel the line between awakening and disillusionment lies?

C (17:09)

I think. I think there's a lot of, like. That's a good question. All my biases for the plant medicine culture. I think there's a lot of, from my experience, like, navigating plant medicine communities, it can be a lot of, like, they think the work is done once they've done the trip, right? And I think there's a lot of, like, conscious work. It's similar. Like people who Go to church on Sunday. And they're like, okay, I did the job. I did my work. Now I did. I did church. And there's not a lot of, like, praxis. Right. And I think that that'd be. The distinction is, like, if people can integrate, like, you know, what lessons did you get from that trip? And then, like, live mindfully and intentionally not, you know, in the. In the. In between, I think that would be good. But, yeah, I think there's a little bit of, like. It feels very churchy at times, in my experience, engaging with the plant medicine community, if that makes sense.

B (18:12)

It does. Was there a specific ceremony or moment that revealed that paradox most vividly to you?

C (18:18)

I don't know that I can pinpoint a particular one. Just navigating a few different plant medicine communities, just kind of being put off by it. And then, like, again, to speak to, like, them asking for money from people and, like, kind of hounding people for money. And I'm like, oh, this doesn't feel good to me. You know, this seems like something we should, like, provide for people a community level. And then, like. And I. I think if there was more of an emphasis on, like, therapy outside of that and like, maybe more of a format for how people can integrate, like, those experiences into their lives afterwards and continue to do work in terms of facing themselves and learning about themselves on the in between, I'd be a little less jaded and just seeing, like, interpersonal interactions between people. I think just like, with how they try to create these communities and get money and has left me a little jaded with the overall format of them.

B (19:33)

Would you be willing to discuss any intersectionality you've recognized between the current state of affairs in American sex work and the plant medicine communities that you've interacted with intersections.

C (19:45)

Okay, Very nuanced topic. I think in general, there's probably a lot of people in both communities that are looking for better for themselves. Right. And that maybe have come from unorthodox backgrounds and maybe have a different outlook on life. But within that, probably a lot of people that would benefit from support otherwise, that would benefit from a system that would, like, made it easier for them to have access to therapy and food and housing without. There's a lot of people in both those worlds that have suffered a lot that are looking for some sense of peace. You know, I think that would be the. The greatest intersection is there's, you know, there's rarely do you find people in the plant medicine community that haven't had some sort of, like, driving force that's brought them there. You know, some seeking, like we're all seeking peace, but some of us have suffered quite a bit. And I, I found a lot of that in plant medicine communities where it's just people desperate, you know, to find something. And you know, that's kind of a dark aspect of that too, right? Is hopefully these communities not taking advantage of, you know, people financially who are desperate to find some sort of peace. And yeah, same in sex work. People are reaching to find some sort of peace money to facilitate that.

B (21:18)

So do these seem to run parallel as modalities for finding meaning? Perhaps through two different venues, an individual might achieve some state of enlightenment, peace, or maybe realization that the traditional systems they were exposed to or brought up in didn't provide them with.

C (21:39)

Maybe. I don't know that everyone's that self aware, right? Like, I don't know that I think everyone's seeking peace, but I don't know that people navigating this system really understand all the time like that they're navigating it. It's like, I don't know that every sex worker I know is, understands that you are having to do this because of this system, right? Like they're just trying to game the system, they're playing within the system without understanding that like there's, there is a reality where this doesn't exist, you know, where this doesn't have to happen. And I think maybe that's part of my disillusionment with the plant medicine community too is like, I just don't. I, in my own bias, like I just, I don't see anything, you know, people, I don't see anything enlightened about capitalism. I don't see anything enlightened about like a real estate agent doing plant medicine and then thinking he's achieved enlightenment and then continuing to exist within this system and you know, or go lord land over people. It's just not a lot of praxis, right? Like, it doesn't, it doesn't really make sense, you know, to me, it, it doesn't make sense.

B (22:52)

It's certainly contrarian, but there does appear to be some sort of a similar vein between these two concepts. People who either use sex work or work within the industry. And then of course, plant medicine purveyors and users both have at the centerpiece of their goals, I think some sort of a struggle with not only Western civilization, generally speaking, but also the economy that they find themselves under. Do you think our generation seeks shortcuts in spirituality, in therapy, in connectivity? The Way maybe we do in other parts of life.

C (23:33)

Yeah, I think. I just. Yeah, I think people don't. They don't always know, like, that you kind of have to live intentionally, like, moment to moment, day by day. Right. Like, and that's, like, how we integrate these things into our lives and, like, move through our lives growing, consistently growing. We can't ever assume the work is done. We can rest, but we have to be very cognizant of that. We have more to learn and be humble in that and really emphasize certain. These, like, certain concepts, like humility as we engage in those things. Otherwise, it's easy to, you know, someone has a profound trip and they're like, I know it all. You know, I do think people think and. Or they think that, you know, money is a shortcut to anything. Like, existing within the system and not being able to really see beyond it, I think is a shortcut. You know, I'm not. And I. I guess I can't speak on, like, what. What does peace look like for any given person, like, authentically. But I think all we can do is live intentionally and, like, continue to, like, face these things within ourselves, you know, not be tuned out from them because we did enough ceremonies or we made enough money.

B (24:52)

I know personally, music is extremely important in your life. And to that, lyrics from bands like Tool. Oh, yeah, yeah. They seem to function as sacred texts for you. Music guide your spiritual or your existential reflections.

C (25:10)

That's a good question. I think just art in general is inspiring to me. I like writing and musical lyrics are cool. It's a good reminder that, okay, cool people are out there pondering the same things and having the same existential queries that I am has always been special to me. So I think that's special for a lot of people. And that's humbling too. You think as a kid I'd be like, you know, thought I was profound in my thinking. Then I, you know, listen to some lyrics. I'm like, hey, that's what I was thinking, you know, Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not alone in my. In my pondering of these things, but it is special and cool and validating to see these concepts talked about. And I think speaks to just the connectedness of our experience too. And I think art does. Does a good job at that.

B (26:06)

Oh, absolutely. Which single lyric right now feels like your mantra?

C (26:11)

Oh, man. I'd have to go dig through and look and see. Go dig through. What were we looking at? Me and my girlfriend were looking at lyrics yesterday. By Radiohead. We were looking at no Surprises. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pull it up. I'm gonna find the lyrics to this song. No Surprises. It's a good song, but it kind of speaks to everything we were talking about. Here we go. A heart that's full up like a landfill. A job that slowly kills you. Bruises that won't heal. You look so tired, unhappy. Bring down the government. They don't, they don't speak for us. That feels resonant and on topic.

B (26:51)

It does, it does. It seems like it matches our zeitgeist.

C (26:55)

Yes.

B (26:56)

How does music give you language for experiences that philosophy sometimes can't?

C (27:01)

I like philosophers that, you know, that's like a critique of, like, postmodernists. Well, this is a critique of postmodernists that they're a little too wordy. Right. And I feel like music can be a little more for the people and on the nose, you know, which I think is helpful that you could write something that could reach a lot of people and be rather, like, straightforward. I think music can do that. Maybe not all the time, but I feel like a lot of the music, like, I feel like Tools and Radiohead, like they're. They're talking about really beautiful things, but they're doing it in a rather, like, straightforward way. Like, it's. You don't really have to do like a ton of reading between the lines to be like, oh, they're talking about, like consciousness and capitalism, you know, I.

B (27:45)

Think what you were trying to say is that it makes a kind of high mindedness accessible to everyone.

C (27:51)

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

B (27:54)

There's a scholar, Sydney Sheedy, who frequently discusses the occult as a method for queer methodology to reclaim its authority or its power within communities. There's a lot of discussion about queer empowerment, whether that's through the occult, through sex work, through the rise in plant medicine communities. This is where an intersectionality starts to flesh out that shows us disenfranchised individuals choosing obviously the tools they have available, whether that be an occult perspective on the political corpus that they're part of, or plant medicine communities that they want to belong to for elevated states of consciousness, or sex work for economic survival and flexibility. Do you recognize that in these crossovers you've had your own experiences and recognized how those trends, those tides, might have shaped your consciousness and your current attitudes towards either the political sphere that we're in or perhaps your plans for the future, what you would like to see happen with your forthcoming book?

C (29:06)

Yeah, I Mean, the intersections of all of that. It's like my story, right? That's like my human experience is the whole. The whole journey and ties into itself my coping and reaching for, you know, some sliver of hope and meaning within this. And, yeah, I think. I think the. The journey which, you know, I kind of referenced was, like, even identifying what the causes are of, like, the suffering here, you know, so identifying, like, why am I in this situation? What. What powers that preside over us have dictated the way society looks and how does that impact me? And, like, trying to dissect that within that, trying to survive. So the sex work and making money and then within that, trying to have, yeah, some level of, like, empowerment for myself and some, like, identity spiritually and some like to make light of things in some way where, like, I think spirituality does a good. You know, if it's healthy, is good at that. Where the material world isn't so heavy, so you can kind of do the work here. You need to do and, like, process these things while knowing that there's more. And I think my journey through my 20s, you know, I turned 30 in April. I think my journey through my 20s was a lot of this, like, yeah, reckoning with all of that while integrating my traumatized little child self, you know, along the way and bringing me to now. I think, you know, the work was, like, putting together all of that and then, like, having, like, a picture of, like, okay, I've arrived here, I understand the journey, and I've arrived as, like, a mostly whole human being still trying to, you know, integrate a lot of lessons. I think moving forward, like, trying to identify within all of this, like, what gives me joy, how can I continue to survive, and how can I give my best effort to, in the vein of, like, joy, give something to the earth. I think that gives me joy. The idea of, you know, I worked hard to learn all these lessons, and I have returned to a sense of self with something to offer. And I think that would be the movement forward, would be doing the work to offer that to the world. My experience, you know, without a lot of expectation. Right. Just. Just as, like, a note for the earth. Like, here. Here's this. Here's what I went through, my. My personal experiences. A lot of. The book contains a lot of stories, like, just escorting, like, silly things. Well, you know, a lot of silly, goofy, just absurd experiences tying it in with everything we're talking about. Like, why did those things happen? Why. Why did that happen? And then, yeah, what to do about that.

B (32:14)

So when we're looking at the broader scope of these points, we discussed music as a kind of shorthand for philosophy, occult as, I guess, a viewpoint to navigate through political perspectives and movements. Or if we're thinking about plant medicine or sex work as alternatives to deeper, longer modes of spirituality or different, more traditional means of work, then are these searching for meaning, an economic constraint, looking for meaning on a budget? Or is it more. Because these are the tools that individuals using them have been left with because they've been disenfranchised or alienated by the broader society they find?

C (33:00)

Maybe both. Maybe this is like, you know, those are things people would authentically be drawn to. But I kind of got to go back to, you know, the. The question you had about justice and judgment and, like, the existence of sex work. I don't know that a lot of people would do a lot of things if they had actual free will. You know, I don't know how much free will really exists if you're scrambling for the resources to survive. You know, I think that's kind of an oppressive force. Not a lot of us. I think it's like an. The illusion of free will. And I think that's kind of like one of, you know, America's greatest tricks in general is like, oh, the American dream. Like, you can be anything you want. And it's like, okay, how. How can, you know, hundreds of millions of people be anything that they want in a. In a system that's designed to, like, we're competing with each other to be what we want.

B (33:53)

Right.

C (33:53)

So I think it leaves. Yeah. So we're left with whatever we can. We can. Yeah. The whatever tools we have to survive. I don't. Yeah, I don't know that in a world where. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that I. You know, I don't think I would have ever done sex work if I could have been myself authentically and loudly and had another way of making that much money, you know? Yeah. Like, I don't know that I would have done that. I don't know. I don't know who would do, you know, I think I would spend a lot of time writing, you know, if I could. If I could do anything. And, like, you know, I think that would be, like, in a world of justice, people would have more time to kind of do what calls to them organically rather than what the most efficient means of survival is. You know, that's still, like, not totally betraying themselves, you know? Like, I don't. It would have Been a betrayal of myself to go and be, you know, a police officer, soldier, work in nine to five. So I'm like, okay, what's authentic to me? How can. How can I still survive, you know, within my. The breadth of like my morality? But if I didn't have to make all those choices, I think I would have just like done the things that, you know, I was doing outside of sex work. I'd have been writing, I would have been processing. I would have been pursuing, you know, a greater understanding of the occult and philosophy and reading and like doing art.

B (35:36)

You know, you bring up art an awful lot. Obviously it's very central in your view of how survival works. Do you use it frequently as a tool for therapeutic growth or stress relief?

C (35:52)

I'm too, like, it's probably like tied into the. That's probably my capitalist trauma still. Like, I'm very work driven. So I feel like a lot of my art, like, I spend a lot of time writing. It's very enriching. I don't know that I could probably do with a little more brain off time in terms of stress relief because I just feel like I have work to do. But I think that's, to my point, like, that's work I would be doing no matter what. You know, that's work I would do. And I feel like that's the work in the world of justice that we would all be doing is the work that we're. We're called to do from. Like our, our base passions in our heart would be the work we do.

B (36:32)

Previously, you touched on your childhood trauma and your earlier experiences that shaped who you are today. Your father's struggles and his influence echo all through your story. How do you carry him now in your work and specifically in your writing?

C (36:48)

I think, you know, he read a lot of Bukowski and Solzie Eatson and all these Russian existentialists, and his voice and character in general is very much like that. And now, you know, later in life, like reading those authors, I'm like, oh man, this sounds like my dad. And I think it's affected my voice a lot too, in my writing. I think my, my relationship with him, you know, he was a. Unfortunately, like, violently abusive the majority of my, you know, young life and then got sober and emerged as a rather present parent until he fell back into some very bad patterns when I was, you know, like 19, 20 and ended up taking his life. And I think, you know, that gave me a lot to process, a lot of pain, to process abuse and then, and then having a Like an enriching paternal force in my life. Post that and then him dying violently and all these echoes of, like, wisdom he gave me throughout that. Which I guess is to say that I learned to. I think I was very lucky for my experiences with him because I learned to think in the gray a lot and to view people as complex. They're all very complex. And it helped me empathize with. With human beings more and I think understand human beings more. And I think a lot of my relationship with my dad now, I. I've always said I. I feel as though I've always felt close to the dead. And we've talked about that a lot. And I was writing a while ago about this, that I feel like the dead are easier to reconcile within the living. And I. I wonder, you know, how good my relationship with my dad would be if he was alive. Because I feel as though in death, like, I feel very connected to the best parts of him, and I feel very connected to, like, the lightness and the wisdom in him. And, you know, I process the darkness with him. And that's important work to do intentionally, that it's taken, you know, a long time. But in my writing, there's a lot of his, like. There's a lot of, like, Bukowski and a lot of satire, you know, and it's because of my dad's voice. And I think I'm lucky that he's like, just a, you know, a joker, like, absurdist, goofy guy that. Well, you know, a little nihilistic, but he is grounding, you know, if his energy is grounding for me.

B (39:38)

To that end, you describe life as a cycle of forgetting and remembering. What are you working hardest to remember right now?

C (39:46)

I think letting go. I think surrender has been such a big. Yeah, definitely surrender makes my brain tingle saying it, because I'm like, yes, that's the correct answer. My body. My body is all tingly from. That is the correct answer. Yeah. This last year, remembering to surrender and, like, particularly in. For me lately, that's, you know, that so many things, the surrender to my feelings, surrender to my emotions, surrendering to fear, surrendering to panic, and just allowing myself to kind of explore the depth of those things and know that I am whole. Exploring the depths of those things and not resisting. Yeah, not resisting. Just surrendering to my emotions, my experiences. I think that's been something I'm remembering, I guess, like, ultimately, in terms of, like, the escape from Samsara, that's like, the ultimate thing, right, Is, like, surrender, right? Like, ultimately surrendering to Death of the ego, which, you know, I don't think I'm there yet. But just practicing surrendering and interpersonal relationships would be how that's shown up a lot. Understanding that I can't, you know, dictate other people's actions, I can only control. But I can actively control and will what I can will and then being adaptable in my will, accepting when I need to be a little more fluid.

B (41:27)

In this discussion you're having regarding Samsara, how do you reconcile eternal recurrence with the hope of transformation? Is repeating the cycle positive or negative in your opinion?

C (41:39)

I guess I've never thought of it that way. There's some cycles that I think, I don't know. It's so abstract and odd. Like there's some things that have identified. Like even certain people I've met, relationships I've had where like this. Surely we've been here before, you know, like, surely we've been in this spot before. And I don't know that there's any one correct way to move through that. Like, I don't know that maybe it doesn't matter that we escape these cycles in terms of like my over my thinking of the inner workings of the universe. I'm thinking like, you know, okay, I'm stuck in this cycle. Maybe I've done this for many lives. Maybe I could keep doing this or maybe I'm ready to not, you know, maybe I don't know that it matters either way. But I know for certain in my current life there's some cycles where I'm like, I think I'm done, you know, I'm like, I think we gotta call it good on this, you know. Yeah. Kind of move on. Yeah.

B (42:47)

So many people separate sex from spirituality, but your work suggests that they in fact overlap. How do you understand the sacred within sex work?

C (42:58)

I think for me the biggest thing, the most impactful thing has been seeing how it's been moving at times to give people interactions interpersonally. You know, a lot of the sex work I do is a lot more of just me sitting and like listening to people or like, you know, offering touch. I do a lot of like, it's called boyfriend experience or that was a lot of my experience was just like sitting with people who really, you know, didn't have the social skills or the looks to, you know, get out there. They're very old and lonely. So I think it, it was special to, you know, offer that to people, just even just like hugs or like, you know, giving someone a cuddle or A hug and just talking with them and giving them space and time of day is very. Is very sweet and special.

B (43:59)

Very charitable.

C (44:00)

Charitable, yeah. It feels good. It's cathartic, and it can feel good. I think in the vein of me being embodied and feeling my feelings and surrendering to them, I've had to be a little more discerning about the kind of sex work I engage in and, you know, to the. I guess to the point of capitalism not being great for the processing, like me making money. I think I. I became very turned off from a lot of my feelings for a while in order to engage in a lot of the stuff I was doing. And I think now I try to be very deliberate and intentional and embodied in whatever I'm engaging in.

B (44:48)

Has sex work ever felt like a ritual for you?

C (44:51)

I think a lot of things in my life kind of feel like ritual in general. I think I disclosed to you ocd, something I struggled with since I was a kid to, you know, to do with post traumatic stress disorder and, like, the coping with that. But I think. And that ties a lot into, like, my, you know, experience with the occult as well, is my just generally wired for ritual. So I. I think. I think. I think a lot of the way, like, the way I move through life daily is ritual. Like, even when I speak or when I'm writing, it's like, you know, mantra and ritual and sigil work and like, it's always like spells, right? Like, everything. Everything I do feels like a spell. So I think. I think in that way, yes. But I never. I've never been very, like, structured in my. The way I'm writ. Like my ritualism, I've always been. I just kind of have resigned a faith that everything that I do is magic in a ritual.

B (45:55)

So you believe that your injection of the numinous into mundane tasks is a side effect of your obsessive compulsive disorder or something different?

C (46:04)

It has to be like that plus my soul, right? I think surely both. I think I'm very, like, earnest in my nature. Earnest and sincere and always looking for meaning in things. And then I think, perhaps exacerbated by ocd.

B (46:34)

Do you think society's judgment on of sex work mirrors its fear of the sacred feminine and masculine?

C (46:40)

I think as a whole, it's just very heteronormative and very out of touch with the whole broad spectrum of what, you know, quote unquote masculinity or femininity looks like and what sex looks like. It's very just. Yeah, the Topic's just like. Because I. I try to think about their lens and I truly just don't. I just have a hard time comprehending, like, you know, the. The basis, like the foundation philosophically for the judgments of feminine and masculine and what those things are and what sex should be. I just don't. I truly don't understand what ground they stand on. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me philosophically. I don't. I don't know. I don't really understand. Yeah, I don't. I don't. It just doesn't compute. It doesn't compute. But I do. I do think so. Yeah, I do think so.

B (47:36)

Now, you've spoken of fascism, capitalism, spirituality and trauma as if they're part of one larger story. Where do you see human consciousness heading in that framework? If the story is pieced together fascism, capitalism, spirituality, and the trauma that each human suffers? Where do you see the consciousness that we've now evolved to take for granted going. Do you see it collapsing, renewing, or something stranger?

C (48:05)

I think I was writing about that the other day too. I think we're either gonna figure it out, and I'm not sure what that looks like or how painful that will be to kind of be birthed into a new stage of humanity, you know, one of justice. I think that was cool. You mentioned justice. I think that's a good way to frame it. I think that would be. The next stage of humanity would be one of justice and equality and equal opportunity for people. And that would be a cool direction our consciousness goes where we can all kind of exist as a society in a way where we do have the ability to process and ponder these things and like, and just sit. And I think that's, like, that's ideal human experience, right, is to be able to sit and be like, what are we doing here? And just like, be supportive in our. To each other within that, you know, and if we can get there, that's great. I don't know, though. And I. I think worst case, we don't. And I, like, we're not meant to exist as a species. And I, I don't think that's like that big of a deal either. And it's. It'd be unfortunate, but I think, you know, our consciousness, maybe that would be something we reflect on post extinction in the, you know, the. In the void and be like, oh, maybe. Or maybe that, you know, maybe that's how it works. Maybe that's the redo. Maybe that's like the. The karmic Story of humanity. And some Sarahs were supposed to like correct that pattern. Right. Maybe we don't this time. Maybe we, maybe we go back and do it again. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I like to think that it's all kind of silly and absurd either way.

B (50:03)

Though, personally, what's your hope for what you'll leave behind in that unfolding story?

C (50:08)

Back to like my authentic self. I think that's just been so such a driving force to me and I'm not sure maybe it was my dad that inspired that too. Like having those seeds of that and just my soul being earnest and. And I think OCD too. Like I've been like. Honesty has always been something that like was a non negotiable for me. Just being honest with myself and loud about it when I'd like to leave. Yeah, just be my best effort and my authentic self. I think then I, you know, and then surrendering to that, that's all I can do, you know, is give. And I think that looks like art to me. I think that looks like a book. I think that looks like moving intentionally like in daily life, being kind and then, you know, leaving it at that and being like, oh, you don't know what else I could have done, you know.

B (50:59)

When you reflect back on your father's brilliance and his contrarianism, do you miss this and see this as part of your own blueprint or do you feel relieved that you're no longer oppressed by it?

C (51:13)

I think it is, yeah. I think, yeah. His best parts again, like his best parts are surely part of the blueprint. I think like things I integrated into myself and then, you know, identifying what kind of generational patterns I need to move past has been helpful. I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know that I feel a relief from it. Again, I don't know that. I think in death we probably have a. It's probably a higher likelihood of a better relationship than. Than if he was alive. But I don't know that I feel relief. Yeah, I think I was very formed by the best parts of him and intentionally looking and going, okay, what do I not want to emulate?

B (52:00)

That's a great point to wrap things up on. I'd like to hear a little bit about your forthcoming book and where listeners can reach out to you to get more information or to possibly ask for advance copies.

C (52:15)

Yeah, it's. It's still in the works, so it's going to be a little bit. But I post a lot of my writing on my Instagram, which is Davin underscore Strong S T R O N K. So there's. You can reach. They can reach out to me there, they can talk to me there, send me messages. And it is in the works. I ideally, fingers crossed, within a year it will be. It will be heading out. I'm not sure.

B (52:47)

Fantastic. So on your IG account, are you mostly just publishing snippets from the memoir or independent works?

C (52:56)

A lot of both. A lot of both. There's a lot of prose like I knew I was going to write a collection of. So the book itself will be a collection of prose and stories that are kind of woven together through the vein of everything we talked about. Just generational trauma and the conditions of society that, you know, created the context for these stories and like the feelings that created the poems. But there's a lot of prose and poetry and then there's also little excerpts and then just like little essay pieces I'll do and post and little interactive polls for people to engage in and stuff that keep people. Yeah. Engaged.

B (53:45)

Engaged and thinking. Yeah. That's fantastic. All right. It has been an absolute delight chatting with you again, dav, and thank you so much for sitting with me and hopefully we will have a chance to chat again soon.

C (53:56)

Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

B (53:58)

Absolutely. Take care.

A (54:03)

What we've just heard from Davin Strong is not only a story of survival, but of radical authenticity. His words remind us that sex work, spirituality, plant medicine, art and trauma are not separate domains. They are interwoven strands of one human search for dignity, peace, and meaning. Davin has taken us into the raw spaces where stigma collides with survival and where survival transforms into thriving through honesty, ritual and creativity. His courage to speak openly about grief, masculinity, capitalism, and the sacred within sex work reveals something deeply human that even in the harshest conditions, the drive toward authenticity, surrender and connection remains unbroken. Before we part ways today, if this conversation something in you or offered a spark of insight, would you take just a moment to share that light back? Leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. It's one of the simplest ways to help the observable unknown reach new seekers and fellow travelers. Your words matter more than you know, and they help this circle grow. As always, I invite you to join the dialogue via visit our WhatsApp channel, the Observable Unknown. Email me your reflections@theobservableunknownmail.com or text me directly at 336-675-5836. When you do, please share. How did you first find out about the show? What's your favorite part or episode so far? What's one thing we could do to make the show better for future listeners, and what's one thing you personally are struggling with right now? Until next time, remember, what appears unknowable often stands right before us, waiting to be observed through both the lens of science and the wisdom of spirit. This is Dr. Juan Carlos Rey of crowscubboard.com inviting you to look deeper into the observable unknown.