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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the observable unknown, where science meets the unexplained. I'm Dr. Juan Carlos Rey of crowscupper.com and after two decades of working at the intersection of comparative religious studies, grief counseling, anthropology, quantum mechanics, and consciousness studies, I've discovered that our most profound human experiences often exist in the space between what we can prove and what we can perceive. In this podcast, we'll explore the measurable influences of immeasurable forces, those hidden factors that shape our reality but often escape our traditional scientific frameworks. From the latest research in consciousness studies to the ancient wisdom that's now finding validation in neuroscience and quantum physics, we're here to bridge the gap between academic rigor and spiritual insight. Whether you're a skeptic, a seeker, or simply curious about the deeper mechanics of human experience, you're in the right place. Together, we'll examine the evidence, challenge our assumptions, and explore what happens when we dare to look beyond the obvious. Today's conversation turns our gaze outward, beyond the familiar interior landscapes of mind and memory, toward the vast ecological intelligence that sustains life itself. My guest is Stacy James, founder of Dazzle Africa, an organization devoted to conservation work in Zambia's South Luangwa ecosystem. Her work invites a reconsideration of how human intention, economic structure and ethical imagination converge in the protection of endangered species and vulnerable communities through conservation centered safaris and reinvestment into local infrastructure infrastructure. Dazzle Africa represents a model in which travel becomes stewardship and philanthropy becomes lived encounter. This dialogue explores not only wildlife preservation, but the psychological and philosophical consequences of witnessing fragile beauty in real time. We'll consider what happens to human consciousness when survival is no longer an abstraction, but a shared condition among species. So without any further ado, let's join the conversation. Stacy, it has been far too long since we've had a chance to chat, and I'm really ecstatic that you're sitting with me today. I'm going to break right into a question that I think is going to familiarize our listeners with not only your life, but your current goals. When you first encountered the South Luangwa ecosystem, what changed in your perception of humanity's place within the natural order?
- [02:15]
B
Humanity's place. I think that especially now, it is just. Just an ongoing reminder of how connected we are to the natural world, to our fellow humans, to the wildlife that we live beside. And it just becomes more and more and more apparent. Even, you know, from day one, when we first encountered South Huangwa in Zambia in 2011 to now, I'm just, you Know, continually amazed, inspired, and I think just more alert to how closely we all are connected and how important it is and to be aware of how much our actions impact others, whether it's, whether it's humans or animals in general or the planet. But man, our impact can be extremely positive or not. So I think it's a reminder continually for me of how interconnected we are. And I think that's what stood out when I first, first experience South Luanga was just how naturally beautiful and interconnected wild areas are, especially for me. So, yeah, thank you for asking, Jason. It's good to. It's good to be with you and thank you so much for having me on today.
- [03:35]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. So do you see an interplay between the impact that humans have and the responsibility that comes from said impact?
- [03:44]
B
Yeah, I, I think as, as human beings on this planet, it is. We're born into a responsibility of keeping balance and taking good care of each other and the planet that we live on. And I think there's an inherent, inherent responsibility. I don't think that I. Yeah, I guess I just really think that we're born before whatever time it is that we're born to live on this planet. It comes with different responsibilities and I think that they're probably different depending on, you know, when people have lived. Lived here. But I think that given that whatever time frame it is, whatever, you know, the beauty and the challenges that are occurring around that time are all of our responsibility to collectively make a positive impact and live. Live well and treat each other well.
- [04:36]
A
It's very elegantly said. Now, conservation often requires confronting extinction as a lived possibility. How has proximity to endangered species reshaped your understanding of this moral responsibility?
- [04:48]
B
I think it depends on, you know, we're living in a time where humans are causing extinction more so than, I think, the first time ever in history of our existence. And because of that, I think it's a. It's again, goes back to our actions and us choosing and us understanding that we either make a positive difference or a negative difference every day in our choices. And, you know, it might seem simple that I'm just using an example of plastic bags or plastic, plastic water bottles or things like that. You know, one person using something that could cause negative impact is, you know, I think when we're looking at ourselves as individuals isn't as perceived as, as harmful. When we're timing at times, you know, millions and millions and millions of different people doing the same thing, again as a collective, we can either make a massive positive difference or Our negative practices and habits and behavior really spiral in a not so positive way. So I think when there's so many of us on the planet doing some of the same things, you know, it can. It can either impact us in a really great way or a really harmful way. And not just us, but, you know, the animals that are being impacted in terms of endangered species by whether it's consumption, whether it's loss of habitat, whether it's just something simple that people might not be aware of that's causing a really larger negative impact. So, yeah, that's.
- [06:30]
A
Thanks, J.C. absolutely. No, it's definitely something that people should have a better understanding of here in the West. We're very, I believe, unsure of our impact. I'm not going to say uncaring, because that's not accurate.
- [06:41]
B
Yeah, I would agree.
- [06:42]
A
Most people just don't realize what's going on as a result of our lifestyle and our consumption. Your model integrates luxury travel with philanthropic reinvestment. What psychological transformation occurs when individuals witness the direct impact of their contributions?
- [06:58]
B
I. The feedback that I have from guests is that they feel more personally connected to the people that they meet that live there. The land, you know, that they're. They're viewing, walking on, being a part of. Whether it's. We just had a recent safari that I hosted that I just returned from a little while ago, about a week or two ago, and. And it was a safari that was on. Quite a bit of it was boating. So it's on land. Whether it's, you know, being a part of the waterways or whatever it might be. The feedback that I consistently get from guests is just how connected they feel. You know, we sort of joke around that a lot of times people will. They'll. Before they've gone on safari, they'll say that they, you know, are going to see the animals, which is true, and they love the animals. But I think people are continually surprised by how connected they get to the other people that are on the ground that we, you know, work with at our safari cams, our guides, the, you know, kids that we work with. And I think it's always a little bit surprising when they return, how connected. I just heard it from a guest, just from this last trip, and, and she had said just. She. She's traveled to many places, but she felt really personally connected to the people that she met, the projects that she saw, the, you know, the land and the animals and whatn I. That's something consistent that I hear a lot. Um, I mean, I think there's lots Psychologically, I think that there's so much gratitude just from living or, I'm sorry, just from like being and witnessing a simpler life. And I think there's just all sorts of gratitude that comes from being able to be a part of making things better. And so I think, never really thought about that. JC But I think psychologically it's, it's, I think I could say people, the majority of people probably return feeling really good about their trip because they've had a great experience, they've met wonderful people and they've done all the things that normally happen on a safari and they have left feeling good about their travel, that they've made a positive impact and long lasting. Our projects, most of them have been going for almost 15 years now. And so I think over time it's nice for people to see that, you know, their impact has accumulated in great ways over the years.
- [09:36]
A
Well, and since a lot of the dazzling Africa participants end up being long term friends, you clearly have the added benefit of watching an arc of cognitive and emotional development through someone's exposure to these wild environments. Watching how not only do they appreciate their impact, but they maybe see life from a different perspective. Can you share one or two anecdotes about watching someone's life really get transformed by this exposure to a wild, untamed environment?
- [10:08]
B
Well, the person who popped in my mind when you were, when you were asking that question, JC was, that's going to make me teary. It's Silvana Camacho who's passed away now. And she, gosh, Silvano, when she first came with us on safari, she was probably, I don't know, late 20s, maybe early, very early 30s. She, she was a friend from Las Vegas, came on safari with us. And I have a picture of her with, with one of our other safari coordinators. And it was when she saw her first elephant in the wild for the first time. And this picture I have is just priceless. And she just had tears running down her face. You know, I think people are so moved by seeing wildlife in the wild and, and, and it's just such experience. So Savannah had an incredible, incredible time and she had kidney failure. She ended up coming back on safari with us. It was not, you know, it was not a small move for her financially and health wise, but she thought that she probably would not be able to go on safari with us again after this. And she was on dialysis. She brought her, we were like, whoa, I hope this goes okay. She was, she brought all of her things with her and jumped through all of these hoops to get her equipment on the, on the flights. And she made it on safari again and had just the best time and was so appreciative of being able to be in Zambia on safari again with people that she loved and students that she had met and supported along the way and seeing and being with all the animals. And she ended up passing away a couple of years ago. But yeah, she's the person who risked a lot to come back that second time. She did all sorts of supporting along the way from the first time that she went and loved what we were doing with students and helped sponsor students and donated wherever she could and spread the word and, and it was just such a soul fulfilling place for her. And I think Dazzle tries to create a contag container that helps people, you know, access their dreams of, of what they would, you know, would imagine their safari to be. And yeah, Silvana was the person who popped into my head when you asked that J.C. and she. Yeah, it was, it was an extraordinary experience for her that carried on and until she passed away.
- [13:12]
A
Fantastic really is Anti poaching work operates at the boundary between protection and conflict. How do you navigate the ethical tension between preservation of life and influence enforcement of law?
- [13:22]
B
So we partner with an organization called Conservation South Luangwa. They. Well, I'll backtrack for a minute. All of our partners for Dazzle Africa in Zambia are partners that are, are on the ground, long term successful, well grounded organizations. And so we've been working with the same partners for, since the beginning, for 15 years. And the law enforcement part of that. The organization that we support is Conservation South Luanga and they have a lot of different programs. Whether it's even under the umbrella of anti poaching. There's community work, there's even say for example community game drives where people who live in the area could be for their entire lives and have and live very close to the national park experience a lot of negative things with animals. Whether it's elephants breaking into their gard gardens or, or their houses sometimes for feed. Those a lot of times those community members have never been into the park and seen the positive side of, of the animals or tourism. And so even I think under the massive umbrella of conservation anti poaching it could be, could be law enforcement, it could be, you know, support with a canine unit where they do patrols and detect illegal items. It could be community communication and community for coexistence strategies. But we depend on the experts Conservation South Wangwa has, gosh, don't quote Me on this one, but approx. Well, I'll say over a hundred scouts and those scouts work with Department of National Parks to protect wildlife, work with the community and have loads of strategies and projects that happen to make sure that all accomplished. So we depend on them for their being on the ground, their expertise. When we fundraise, we have two primary conservation partners, it's Conservation South Luanga and Zambian Carnivore program that is more focused on science monitoring. Lots and lots of prides and packs of lions and endangered wild dogs, bugs and different carnivores.
- [15:59]
A
But yeah, how have local Zambian communities influenced the philosophy and operational structure of Dazzle Africa?
- [16:06]
B
We have always tried to, you know, when we first started Dazzle Africa it was based on, there was a need that we thought that, that we could be in partnership for. And we had, we had asked local people on the ground what the highest needs happening on the ground in the community. And it ended up we did, which hopefully is like a trifecta of solutions, which is community development, higher education and conservation. And when all of those pieces work together, our goal is that we listen to the people on the ground, our partners on the ground, and we let them tell us what they need. And then if it fits within the model that we think we can support, that we think we can collaborate and help, help fund, then we move forward. And it could be. Well, I will also say that we did not want to be an organization that as foreigners to go in and think that, you know, the western ways were better or that we thought better, we had better ideas or whatever that might be. We definitely did not want to do that. So we have been, you know, we try our best to always go back to what is it that our partners need. And the partners include people on the ground community. So when I say partners, it's, it's including, you know, individual people and their input, our partners and, and local organizations in general. So we're, we're in contact every day, multiple times a day with various people on the ground who are sharing what kinds of things are needed. You know, there was just in the last week there's been massive flooding and large parts of communities that have been flooded out of their homes. Homes, People, because they didn't have a place to live, have been camping out basically on the tarmac roads. And so we have been in direct conversation with people that, you know, have been giving us information about what's happened with the flooding, how many people have been impacted, getting videos and that sort of thing. So one of the fundraisers that we have been doing this week is anybody who's wanting to provide any kind of amount of money to support people in mostly food, basic infrastructure right now to help people get back up on their feet and rebuild houses and, and things like that.
- [18:46]
A
So yeah, so for the donation link that I'm going to include in the description for today's episode, will listeners be able to donate direct to that cause or to an alternate cause?
- [18:58]
B
Yeah. So if, if I'm hesitating just because I'm just thinking about this person, if anybody listening would like to donate specifically to that, if, if they go to the dazzleimpact.org and they click on donate when they're making a donation, there's a little box that is there for people to type in any specific information and they could just type the word fly. Floods, flood impact, anything that has to do with flood.
- [19:26]
A
Okay.
- [19:26]
B
And, and yeah, on that note, there are people who, you know, specifically might want to donate to a particular area. Whether it's, you know, anti poaching, whether it's our canine unit that we help support with conservation. South Wangwa could be anything conservation if they looked at our website or it could be higher education. If anybody wants their donation to go to anything specifically, they're more than likely, they're more than welcome to type it that box. They can also just type in highest need or if they don't type in anything, then it just goes to our highest need.
- [20:01]
A
Fantastic. Now most conservation narratives focus on loss exclusively. What have you learned about resilience and adaptation from observing animal societies in the wild?
- [20:12]
B
You know, it goes back to the topic of human impact. You know, both of the organizations for conservation that we partner with, Conservation South Longa and Zambian Carnivore Program, they're both involved in de snaring of animals. So snares are wire snares that are typically set more so in. It's illegal, but they're more so set in areas to trap or to snare. Could be impala, could be ungulates in general. So it's more for bush meat. So they'll set snares and then whatever it is that they're catching in those snares, most are just ingest, discriminate sort of victims of snaring. And so even though the intention might be to snare an animal for illegal bush meat, the problems from that just go on and on and on. So it could be elephants that get snared, giraffe, zebra, any, any kind of monkey. I mean any kind of animal could be snared. And I think the resilience, JC is that Zambian Carnivore program has a lot of examples of statistics, statistics of if from their work. If, say for example, one endangered wild dog is. Is de. Snared and that wild dog goes on, or a lion goes on to give birth to multiple generations of cubs or pups, the generational impact and the, the amount of, what do I want to say? The amount of children, you know, whether they're dogs or lions, those babies. Babies. The statistics are just trying to think of a number in my head right now. I might even send you JC A graphic to show how many babies are born from 1D snaring of a particular animal. I want to say it's the statistic I'm thinking of. I think it was a lion and I want to say it was like 174, something like that. You might not want to quote me on this one, but it was more than a hundred new people babies that had been born just because that one animal had been disnared. And so I guess my point being is that it makes. The resilience of. It is number one, it was human caused harm to begin with. But number two, if the, if other humans come in and, and treat that animal, it's the resilience of it is that, you know, they heal from the snares most of the time and they go on and on and on to leave generations of offspring.
- [23:00]
A
Fantastic.
- [23:01]
B
Resilience.
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A
It is resilience. It's adaptation.
- [23:04]
B
Sorry, that was a lot.
- [23:06]
A
It's okay. Education initiatives are central to your mission. Do you see ecological literacy as a form of psychological regulation for future generations?
- [23:16]
B
I think that the example that comes to mind is that I think there's a level of, of integration and appreciation that happens the more that people general are exposed to landscapes, wildlife careers and professional opportunities and livelihoods that come from that exposure and from the integration. And I'll share an example. When Dr. Mwamba Sachande is a wildlife veterinarian, he works for Conservation South Luanga and Zambian harbor program. And when he was first employed in the South Wonga Valley was the, at the time it was 2013 and he was the second wildlife veterinarian in the whole country of Zambia and first one in the South Wanga national park area. And he, when he came on board, he just really changed the, the, I guess the view of not only how people could think about animals, how they could care for them, it was, it was, you know, young people in the communities were starting to. They'd start bringing in their cats or dogs where before, I mean, it didn't even exist. Started getting vaccinations, spaying and neutering, learning about how to care for animals. I think it really shifted the. The exposure of that, shifted the views of relationships between people and animals. And I think that a lot of younger people then started to see that this could be a profession for them. And that definitely brought in a lot of. A lot of students who were interested in animal welfare who were, you know, saw this as a profession that they didn't know existed. And some of our students then went into veterinary medicine. One of them, Mercy, just graduated this last year, and she's working full time as a wildlife veterinarian in Kafue National Park. Far. So I think the positive ripple that. That you just, you know, you do hopefully, you know, good things that you think are going to make a positive impact. I think that, you know, we have no way of telling down the road what that ripple is going to be. I've seen so, so many positive impacts from Dr. Sachante being a veterinarian, and he is an incredible mentor for young people coming up, and. And it's really blossoming into this beautiful wildlife veterinary program that students see as relevant. I think you could say the same thing about. To your original question, J.C. the same thing around tourism, hospitality, you know, where we're all sort of, you know, we're all on this planet together, we're coexisting. And how can our lives, you know, intertwine in a positive way? So.
- [26:25]
A
Absolutely. So with the travel focus that dazzle Africa has at its core, we know travel can be escapism or awakening. What distinguishes a transformational encounter with wilderness from a purely aesthetic experience?
- [26:40]
B
I think that I would say that. That the people who are wanting, you know, a safari like ours is, you know, all of the. All of the luxury things that you would imagine accommodations and, and the, you know, environments and the food's wonderful and, you know, and if people choose that, I think that the thing that I notice is that people leave our trips feeling connected, feeling fulfilled. I would say the majority of people want to be a part of something good, want to be a part of something giving back, want to also enjoy themselves and have an extraordinary adventure themselves. And I don't think, think those two have to be disconnected. I think that. That people traveling can have an extraordinary experience of the things that they would like to experience, and they can be a part of seeing, you know, behind the curtain and seeing what's happening with the people who live there and what needs to take place to protect the animals that they're able, you know, to then see on safari. And I think it's a really holistic. Good feeling, actually. Yeah, either or, you know, it can be all. It can be all together. And I think that's, you know, what we try to provide through our safari experiences.
- [28:07]
A
Wonderful. Looking forward, what vision guides your sense of legacy, both ecological and human?
- [28:13]
B
I think that, you know, sort of just everyone leveling up and what they can do, whether it is providing. Well, let me backtrack. I think that first it is having. And for me, it's not even, even necessarily hope. It is an expectation that things are going to improve. And I think that wherever people are, it is, you know, regardless of what's happening outside of ourselves right this minute, there absolutely are good things that people can do and there's differences that we can make and collectively we will make bigger differences together. And the vision that guides me is that I have that expectation that we are going to like, say, for example, in terms of. Of habitat. I mean, I have lots of ideas around this, J.C. but. But I think with the environment and habitat that. Just thinking for a minute here, just thinking about your question around the vision part of it. So I meditate every morning and at least almost every morning and I have a vision of really just positive, good, healthy things happening. That, you know, that people are taking care of each other, that there's peace in the world world, that animals will not be harmed by people, that we provide land for everyone to coexist together. And that the goodness will just keep growing. And that with, on the dazzle Africa side, it is that, you know, our positive impact will continue to grow. And I think that at any, at any time in any of our lives, there's times when we're up and there's times when we're down down and there's times when we can help and there's times when we need help. And I think that us coming together as, you know, collective humanity to continue to grow, that ripple of good things happening, that's, I think what drives my vision is that it's, you know, I see. I see places of paradises on Earth that. That just need to. To be either left alone, to be nourished, to help grow. I mean, there's so much that could. That. And with my travels, not just in Zambia, but my travels in, you know, pretty isolated natural landscapes, it's just we truly have a, you know, paradise here on Earth. And we Just need to work together to take care of it. Create diplomacy, focus on peace, you know, collaboration, collective good. So, yeah, I think that's the. The vision that keeps driving me is. Is just we already have paradise. We just need to, you know, get out of it.
- [31:00]
A
It's a good point. Just taking care of what you've got is more than enough in a lot of ways. From the bottom of my heart, Stacy, thank you so much for sitting with me today. It's always great to hear your voice and to chat and for spreading the word, letting people know what kind of good needs to be done and how to make that possible in their own lives. I'm going to be adding the donation link and the website link in the description, but is there any current project or plans that you would like to direct listeners to?
- [31:26]
B
I mean, I would say for the. The highest need probably right this minute is help with flooding victims that have lost their homes, that do not have anywhere to live right now. So I would say that's probably the highest need is flood victims. So that would be wonderful if listeners would like to pitch in for that.
- [31:48]
A
Absolutely. Thank you so much for what you're doing, not only in the world, but in the lives of people who need to see what the world is really like. It means a lot more, and I think you even give yourself credit for.
- [32:01]
B
Oh, thank you so much, J.C. absolutely.
- [32:03]
A
Take care of yourself and I'll talk to you soon. All right?
- [32:05]
B
Okay, thanks.
- [32:06]
A
Cheers. Bye. Bye. My conversation with my dear friend Stacy James reminds us that consciousness is not confined to the private interior of the mind. It's shaped continuously by the environments we inhabit, by the species we encounter, and by the responsibilities we choose to embrace. The protection of wilderness is not only a biological necessity, it's a psychological one. In safeguarding ecosystems, we preserve the conditions under which wonder, humility and ethical imagination can still arise. If today's dialogue stirred any reflection in you, I invite you to continue the conversation. You can write to me directly at theobservableunknownmail.com or text me directly at 336-675-5836. And wherever you've heard this conversation, please consider leaving a rating and review. Your voice helps this work reach those who are searching the deeper ways of understanding their place in the living world. Until next time, this has been the observable unknown.