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You're listening to the OCD Stories podcast hosted by me, Stuart Ralph. The OCD Stories is a podcast dedicated to raising awareness and understanding around obsessive compulsive symptoms. I do this for interviewing inspired therapists, psychologists and people who have experienced OCD. Welcome to the OCD stories and welcome
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to episode 534 of the podcast. And in this one I got on Rachel Ketchum Woodward. Rachel is the owner of Reviving Lives Counseling in Fort Worth. Rachel is a therapist holistically and clinically treating girls and women since 2019. Having her own 20 plus year personal journey with OCD. Rachel is passionate about treating sufferers of OCD and educating faith circles on ocd, bridging the gap between biblical and clinical circles around this topic for clients, church leaders and mental health leaders. In particular, we discuss her therapy journey, how OCD latches onto faith, telling the difference between a genuine faith based question and an OCD question, how pastors and churches can help scripture and OCD moving towards values, exposure and response prevention therapy, addressing shame in therapy and bringing in family members. And thanks to our podcast partners, nocd. If OCD is interfering with your life, NOCD can help. They're licensed therapists, specialise in exposure and response prevention therapy. The most proven therapy for OCD with no CD effective treatment that is 100% virtual is available for children and adults with OCD and most members can get started within seven days on average. No hassle, just real science backed help and support between sessions. Begin your journey@nocd.com or I'll put the link in the episode description. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and find it useful. And thank you so much to Rachel for her time and of course to you guys for listening. As always, it means a lot. Without further ado, thank you. Here is Rachel.
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A
Welcome to the podcast, Rachel.
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C
Hi Stuart. Thanks so much for having me.
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A
Yeah, it's good to have you on and so I'd love to hear your kind of story, like what got you into being a therapist and then ultimately working. I know you do more than just ocd, but what got you into working with ocd?
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C
Yeah, for sure. So I have a private practice here in Fort Worth, Texas and I'm in the process of writing a book and so OCD is definitely a passion of mine. It started back when I was 11 years old and starting to struggle with scrupulosity, just really struggling with whether or not I was a Christian because I didn't have a specific day that I could point to. Like this is the day I was saved. And so that's when it started. But I did not know at the time that I was ocd. And then it kind of translated into different themes as a teenager, specifically harm and pedophilia. Ocd, which I also didn't know at the time. And it was actually my pastor at the age of 20 who, shockingly enough, was the one who pointed out to me that I had OCD. And I went through a journey in my 20s of learning just how the Gospel speaks into that. And then I was in my upper 20s before I got actually treated with ERP for OCD. So ever since then, I've become passionate. Now I'm in my 30s and have my own practice about using both matters of faith and ERP and kind of bridging those two things in my work with clients.
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A
Amazing. And erp, Was it useful for you
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C
to go through it? Absolutely. I feel like that was the thing that helped my brain be able to walk up to uncertainty in ways that, like, I hadn't fully yet. And was actually where I realized, wow, I really need the Lord to fill this uncertainty for me because, like, nothing else is. None of my compulsions were. So.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. No, thank you for sharing that, for. For being open. Cool. So let me get my questions up. Yeah, I guess. So, thinking of sort of religious OCD or. Or scrupulosity, how does OCD latch onto faith? What are some ways it kind of.
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C
Yeah, that's such a good question. I feel like. So I guess to back it up, like, you know, OCD latches on to anything that's important to us. And so I think with faith, for those of us who have this group velocity, it really latches on to different types of things that go into the faith, whether it be. I've seen it my own life. And with clients, whether or not they're saved, whether they're Christian, a lot of mental ruminations around things like confessing sin. That's a big part of my story, or even potential sin. It wasn't actual sin. It was just something. Something that OCD told me was. And then I've also seen it through just obsessive reading of Scripture and, like, kind of taking scripture out of context. Like, one recent example with clients has been in the Book of Matthew, just different passages about selling your possessions or following Jesus and people being like, what if I've not done that? Like, I know that I'm really his. You know? And then I think the other thing I've seen is around, like, sanctification, which is such a big word, but just means, like, becoming more like Christ in our walk with him. And so have seen that a lot. Well, how do I know that I'm being sanctified and am I holy enough? And have I done my quiet time? Right. And it's just like, on and on it goes. I feel like there's so many different ways. It has flavors.
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A
That's it. That's it. Well, yeah, I think, like, fa. Faith itself, the way I interpret it is like, we have faith, but we don't have certainty. I could be wrong there. And. And obviously, with ocd, there is no certainty, and that's what it seeks. So I can imagine faith being quite nuanced. OCD loves that as, like. Well, there's no black and white here, so we can really get involved.
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C
Absolutely. I've seen it, and people of any faith, I've seen it latch on. So I come from Christian perspective, but I have people who I know and love who are not believers, and it still latches on to faith as well. So I think there's. There's uncertainty of faith, no matter what faith walks, someone's in.
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A
Yeah, exactly that. Good point. Yeah. Okay, interesting. So how. Because what I always wonder with, you know, people of faith who experience OCD is how do they distinguish between, well, what is a real faith concern here versus, like, this is an OCD worry? Like. Yeah, where do you draw that line?
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C
Yeah, that's a great question, Stuart. So I think initially, like, when I'm sitting with a client, I'll. I'll try to embody just being a safe space for their initial question, for their initial wrestling, because there can definitely be wrestling in matters of faith. I think where it crosses the line is if there's a sense of never an answer is never enough. Like, you can answer it five different ways. And then at a certain point, it's like, oh, I'm gonna have to keep answering the same question. Or if it. There's just not a sense of. Or if there is a sense of urgency around it. Like, I have to know. If I don't know, then all will not be well, or I will be in hell. Or just these very extreme. When it's very extreme and urgent, that's definitely crossed over to ocd. It's kind of my initial. And then also I'll say, on the other side, you have a client suit. The really sneaky ways where it's not always extreme. Like, it looks like it's someone who's being really hyper, responsible side of the other caveat.
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A
Okay. Yeah, yeah, makes. Makes sense. So, yeah, it's. It's almost, I guess, like any, Any theme. Right. We're just looking out for those markers of typical OCD things of like, excessive checking the same information. You know, you've. You've reasoned with it enough, you've got the evidence, and now that's not good enough.
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C
Right?
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So I noticed you, you've done some talking around pastors and churches and how they can help. Are there any ways initially, are there any ways, like unintentionally pastors and churches and I guess religious leaders generally can kind of, I don't say make OCD worse, but, like, not help. Well, make OCD worse?
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C
Yeah. Yes. I love that question. I wish I was asked that more. Yes. I think a lot of pastors in churches, I'll start with this. They, they meet well, their hearts are off in the right place. Exception would be if there's like some sort of like, church abuse, church harm going on, of course. But other than that, I think pastors and churches, what they do well is they want to help people, they want to embody community to people. But then I think where they cross over into it being harmful and intentionally is sometimes when they try to fix it or they have a very black and white response or a very black and white answer. So, for instance, like in a community group, if there's an emphasis on confessing sin, or in a sermon, if it's confessing sin, if there's also an emphasis on Jesus came to forgive our sin, you know, the OCD person might really latch onto that without the pastor knowing that. I've always appreciate how my pastors come at those things with a very nuanced way. He'll even say, if you have a sensitive conscience, this is how I want you to see this. Like, knowing I was the audience.
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A
Yeah, yeah. So. So almost the, the past is being aware that some people are like, say, more sensitive, more prone to overthinking and reading into things. Yeah.
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C
I even heard an illustration once. Maybe this would be a helpful illustration if someone's holding like a knife and you can view that knife as like the knife of truth. Some people need like a big, like, slice, like at the point across. Maybe someone who, like, is really stubborn and hard hearted and didn't know this, you know, versus someone with OCD or scrupulosity, just needs the faintest touch with that knife, just very gently for them to go, oh, I got it. So if the sermon series is more, more for this category than the Other I often see, then I'll have a whole session with someone trying to untangle a sermon series that has happened multiple times in my office.
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A
Yeah. Would this happen within sort of churches that may be more fire and brimstone and the pastors coming in with a lot of energy? That's.
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C
Yeah, yes, for sure. For sure. And even. Even ones where it can be more subtle too, where they're just reading a passage of scripture, like a power scripture in Matthew, for instance, that they're not explaining it in a way that is nuance and it's just very black and white and OCD is black and white anyway. So I think churches can. Can unintentionally trigger that when they do the same thing.
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A
Yeah, yeah, true. And I guess there's a point where it doesn't matter how a verse is phrased, it could still trigger someone because for sure, OCD will always find a way to be. Get. I'll say get upset, but you know, get. Yeah, get triggered.
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C
Absolutely. Yes.
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Yeah.
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C
And what.
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So on the flip side of that question, what can religious leaders and pastors and churches do to help and support these sort of OCD people with OCD or anxiety in their community?
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Yeah, I think the first thing is just to be educated on what OCD and scrupulosity is. Honestly, like the very first time I heard, or almost the first time I heard about it, was from my pastor who said, hey, Rachel, I think you have some ocd. Which blew my mind because I thought ocd, he was like cleaning and hand washing, you know, I didn't realize I was mentally ruminating and that rumination was actually a compulsion. So I think just literally step one, two and three for most pastors is going to be just acknowledging what the mental health is and what this diagnosis is and like, what it can look like. It might look like someone coming to you and asking for reassurance about whether they're not a Christian, or it might look like confessing to you over and over. So if pastors are aware of that, I think that's the biggest thing. Like the second thing would be just embodying a safe space for people. So. So it's a non shaming, non judgmental environment. And then I think the. The third and fourth thing would be helping that person be linked to potentially clinical help, like the. The church being willing to outsource outside of the church rather than trying to do everything inside of the church if they are not trained to care clinically for ocd. I've seen a lot of unintentional harm done in certain biblical. Biblical counseling circles. I love my biblical counseling brothers and sisters. Love them. But sometimes if they don't know what OCD is, they do more good. And I think the fourth thing would be then embodying just the safety of Jesus and pointing people to the gospel, if they're open to that. With the spiritual peace tying into OCD as well.
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A
Yeah. Interesting. So, you know, because you said about your. Your pastor knowing it was ocd, did you ever find out how they knew it was ocd? Not. Not that, you know, I guess. What's to say how they knew what OCD was generally?
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C
That's a great. That's honestly a great question. I think it's just because my pastor has had some background and experiences.
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Okay.
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And like mental health things, experiences in his own life. So I think he knew. And then my other pastor has had OCD himself, like some OCD tendencies. So I think both of my pastors were just kind of in there in their wheelhouse. But I, As I increasingly become aware of how rare that is, you know, it increases my passion to want the shepherds. The pastors should know about this.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've done episodes with other faiths as well, and it's. It's a similar challenge, but it's not specific to faith. It's any population. There's a challenge of people that don't know ocd, so.
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C
Exactly.
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Yeah. And you mentioned. I think you mentioned there at the end about before I asked that last question about pointing them to scripture. Is that so? Obviously. Yeah. You're not replacing therapy, but more in addition, because they've got the faith. Read this verse. Or is it that sort of thing? Or reflect on.
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C
Yes, for sure. So, like, as an example, how my pastor sat with me in scripture. So first of all, it was untangling ways that my OCD was twisting scripture. Like as an example, the. The first John 1:9, if. If you confess your sins, he will forgive you. And I took that as meaning, if I don't confess my sins, he won't forgive me. So some of it was them just untwisting how I had twisted scripture in my own head. That was the first part. The second part was, I love how one of my pastors would really point me to certain passages of scripture about God's grace and his character and his love. And so it was really about embodying, like, all of God's character. OCD really twists God's character. It makes it focus just on, you know, his justice or his sovereignty, which is very important, of course, but helping me broaden out. So one way they did that would be like examples of stories in the Gospels of Jesus, you know, how he interacted with certain women who felt shameful. And then he would be like, read that. That. That's Jesus's posture to you. It was helping me relearn, like, who Jesus really was, rather than focusing on who my OCD said he was.
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Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. So that's maybe more like the. The cognitive side of therapy, like trying to get the.
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C
Yeah, yes, yes. And. And I had that, thankfully. And I know this is rare, too. I kind of had all that background when I went to clinical ocd, because as a side, when I went first went to my counselor, I wasn't even there for ocd. I was there for something else. And a few sessions in, she was like, oh, oh, oh, there's OCD here. We need to do some, like, ERP on this. But I had that background with my pastors going into that, so I feel like I kind of had that. The grace gospel piece such that then when I got to counseling with her and she was exposing me to all of my fears of being a pedophile and all those things that then we were able to, together look back to what my pastors had previously told me and tie that in.
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Yeah, okay.
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So.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. And just before we get on to sort of ERP in your own story, if you don't mind me asking, what, beyond sort of ERP and obviously Scripture, what else helped you in your sort of recovery process?
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C
Yeah, it's a great question. So I think the other part of therapy that helped me was the ACT kind of acceptance as well. So I would say it was ERP and act, because ACT is moving towards our values. And so a lot of it was getting out of my head and into my life. So specifically around the fear of, you know, scrupulosity would look like, okay, well, let's, you know, be in church and read Scripture anyway, and let's. Let's babysit kids, even though pedophilia, OCD is going off in your brain. So moving towards values was a part of my recovery and learning to do that while the intrusive thoughts were coming. And then, honestly, just having caring family, my parents specifically, and mentor figure and a few girlfriends, just people who could love me through it and support me in it, I think was another huge part of it. And I think the last part that was big was this could be a Whole nother podcast, probably, but quick shout out to it. I definitely believe medication can definitely be helpful for people because of just chronic health things I have and medicine having weird side effects in my body. Medicine wasn't going to be something that I could use necessarily. So I really learned a lot about functional psychiatry and functional medicine, which just kind of gets to like, what's going on with serotonin and gut brain health. And that's a whole long story. But I'm still on it currently, but just detoxing certain things and taking certain things to help my brain, literally so very much. We're embodied souls. I feel like our brains care too.
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A
Yeah, yeah, fair point. Absolutely. No, it's interesting and I was gonna say there. So actually, before we go to erp, I'll just ask another question I got because it links to what you just said. So you talk a lot about sort of mind, body, spirit connection, holistic approach. Yeah. What are some ways you kind of bring that into your practice?
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C
With my clients. I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I always tell clients when they're starting with me that I don't have like a cookie cutter model for them. Like, I look at every person as their own person. And so my intake process is very thorough. And so it's, you know, getting to know their story as well as their physical symptoms. And so I might refer them to a. Either a traditional psychiatrist or functional psychiatrist, depending on what is needed there. I'll ask them if they've had a wellness checkup. If they haven't, like, that's like number one in every intake. And then also just asking, are they wanting Faith to be integrated in their care with me? And if they are, then we'll start to very gently integrate that in a non OCD way. And then I will definitely be doing ERP and act with them, which is kind of that. That clinical piece. And so it's kind of. It almost is like a dance with people. It's just kind of integrating those things depending on where they're at and like starting where the client's at.
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A
Yeah, yeah, perfect. And when you say wellness check, what does that include?
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C
Yeah, yeah. I just mean, like, if they haven't had their yearly checkup with their doctor, I guess is what I mean. You know, like, if I say in their intake form, because I asked, when was the last time you saw a doctor? When was the last time you saw a psychiatrist? If they're like, oh, it's been 10 years, I'm like, hey, you know, maybe let's Go get one of those done.
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Yeah.
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And let's see, is there any levels off? Like, as a quick example, if someone's vitamin D level super low, like, that really impacts mental health and ocd. Yeah, quick example.
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So, yeah, interesting. So it's like blood work and looking.
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Yeah, yeah, blood work. Blood work, yeah, for sure.
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Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. No, it's not something that's. That's necessarily routine in the uk, mainly, because obviously the nhs. Yeah. Over a certain age, I think they do do that every year. But, yeah, no, it's an interesting thing. Absolutely. To make sure those. Those things are kind of balanced because, like you said, we're all. We're all. We're all kind of one system and it all kind of works. Yeah. So onto erp. I guess the first question is, for someone who's, like, scared of erp, you know, when. When I think of. One of the biggest criticisms of ERP is that it's like, it's too scary. I don't want to do it. Not everyone has that opinion. But when people do, that's the roadblock with people like that. How do you sort of navigate that or help them through that?
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C
Yeah, that's such a good, sensitive question. I think, first off, I don't, like, start with erp. Like, by the time I do intake, get to know their story, do education of ocd, it might be, depending on the person, it might be third, fourth, fifth session before we. Before we start that. And I always tell people that I will never ask them to do something that, A, I've not done myself because I've gone through erp, so I will tell them stories of what I had to do and then, B, that doesn't help them meet their goals. Right. And so. So, friends, it's kind of those extreme ERP versions you'll hear of, like, let's go touch all the toilets. It's like, well, if they aren't touching a toilet at all, because they need to be able to go to the bathroom, that's one thing. If. If that's not impeding their life any. Well, maybe we focus on the ones that, like, they're wanting to work on. And then I think I try to create a hierarchy with people. And so, as a quick example, 1 to 10, 10 is high anxiety, 1 is no. Like, let's start with, like, the fives, give you some traction with that and then increase from there.
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Yeah.
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C
Then you have some clients who come in, they just want to rip the band aid off and do it all, which is great. So it's very much pacing with the client is what I'd say, and making sure they know how helpful it is for their brain while at the same time helping them move towards their values. I think just doing rote exposures isn't the point. I think it's making sure it's moving them towards like a bigger life.
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A
Yeah, good point. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah. Making sure the exposure is. Helps them or is. Yeah. Linked to what matters them in some way, not just let's do the grossest thing or the scariest thing. Yeah, absolutely. Do you, do you bring in sort of values based exposures as well, like linking it to the direction they want to head in life?
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Yes, I try to do that. I try to ask people like what, what's like if you're not going to do this compulsion, can we replace it? Not with another compulsion of course, but with like what's your value going to be? Like what are you moving towards if you're not doing that? Compulsion sometimes can be a little tricky depending on what it is, especially if it's like a mental compulsion. But yes, I definitely try to involve act in those because I think that I found that perspective with people usually especially for people who have kind of this hidden OCD type of like super velocity and things like that.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've like moral scrupulosity, not moral scrupulosity. So we've just scrupulosity or religious azd. What. How are you adapting ERP for them? Is there any like different ways that you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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C
It's a great question. So I think just thinking through different client examples I have, depending on the client of course, but like one example might look like I've had clients who are like crippled by certain passages of scripture, like where they're like non functional. So as an example, first I do a lot of ACT work with them and a lot of work around cognitive behavior therapy, kind of around like what is the character of God, you know, and then if they want to go back to that pastor scripture, because it's like, yeah, I need to be able to read this because it comes up in my church all the time. Then it's like, okay, well let's, let's read that together, open up our Bibles, like let's do exposure and then try to not give in to the mental ruminations that come up with it. And then I always try to reground people on God's character after doing that. So it's like one example. Other examples would be Maybe someone. I've had clients who. I'm like, let's just not confess anything, confess any sins for a week. Let's just trust that God still, grace has got you and you don't have to confess anything, you know, or let. Let's go a week without having to do a quiet time, like, let it be organic, you know, just go on a walk and talk to God if you want, you know, so kind of. Kind of some of it is helping them walk away from compulsions, but then also trying to help them embody spiritual practices that work for them to get back to where they want to be spiritually with those practices.
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A
Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah, I like it. And I imagine that with this sort of theme of ocd, there's probably a lot of shame entangled in it. In that especially, I imagine. I just. You know, the image that came to my head was like, right, let's read this passage from the Bible together as an exposure. And I can imagine, you know, the tears and the. The shame of, like, why am I feeling these thoughts? Having these thoughts while something that should be a joyous thing or a connecting thing with God. And. Yeah, how do you navigate that sort of shame that religious people may feel?
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C
For sure. Yeah. I think initially I do a lot of shame work with someone on the front end before we would open up the Bible. So hopefully by the time they've opened it, it will create some anxiety. But not hopefully is my goal the huge amount of shame. So really, if they're open to, it's pointing them back to. I think Jesus came for the people who felt ashamed. Like, he came close to us in our. In our grossness. He embodied that himself on the cross by facing the shame for us. And so if they're open to that, I can bring in that piece, I think, of. Of God's character. If, for whatever reason they're not open to that, then I think it's just some standard classic, you know, shame and acceptance around those feelings without it having to, like, mean something about you.
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A
Yeah, yeah, good point.
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C
And I'll throw this out there, too. And I think this could tie into a couple of your questions, but an illustration my own counselor gave me back in the day when she was treating me was, if you can imagine, like a po pie, like, I don't know, pumpkin pie, chocolate pie, and what kind of pie is in London, but, you know, over here in America. Apple pie. Yeah. Okay, so imagine a piece of the pie out of it like this, where there's a gap. And she told me Rachel, like all your focus on gaining certainty here in this gap, even though there's like 95 certainty that, like, you know, you are a Christian or you're not a pedophile or whatever, I was really focused on this gap. That makes sense. That piece that was latching onto and trying to fill compulsions with. So when I use that illustration with my own clients now, it's become this beautiful journey of seeing how they try to fill it with these mental or spiritual compulsions, but how we don't need to do that because Jesus fills the gap by what he did for us on the cross. So we can see it that way. Personally, my own journey with ERP that's what helped me take steps towards freedom, is knowing that he filled that for me so I didn't have to fill it with compulsions.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's a nice, nice way of looking at it. Yeah. No, I like that. Yeah. I don't think we're as big on our pies as Americans are. We got apple pie, rhubarb pie, then we have savory pies, cottage pie, shepherd's pie. Yeah, yeah, Very Christian focused pie there. Cool. No, that's useful. Thank you for that.
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C
So do you.
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A
Do you get sort of non Christians work with you or non people of faith? Or are you primarily focused on people of faith?
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C
Yeah, I definitely welcome people of no faith or any faith to my practice. I tend to attract Christians just because I kind of market myself as. I'm a Christian counselor, but I call myself a safe Christian counselor. So if someone comes to me and they're not a Christian, like, I'm cool with it. I'm not going to the Bible down their throat or anything like that. So I really have enjoyed, honestly, when I've had clients that aren't Christians, I'm like, I kind of love it. I'm like, okay, like, let me navigate this with you. Maybe in a different way. And, you know, I hope and pray that maybe they would come to know Jesus through just knowing me, if they're, you know, he chooses to do that.
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A
But.
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C
But normally, yes. My practice has historically been. There's a lot of Christians that come to. Or wrestling Christians, maybe.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know it's on the website you. You talk, I think, at least. At least on the homepage specifically about sort of girls and young women. Is that. Yeah. What. Why that focus?
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C
Yeah, for sure. So I think just as a. As a woman myself who's been through things really since preteen, just wanted to focus on girls and women and just the. The issues that girls and women can have. But I would say in the OCD space, I just love educating, you know, pastors and churches. I'm writing a book on it. I hope men pick it up, you know, So I love, you know, working with and speaking with men for sure. Around all that. Just in the, like, private practice space, I do focus on.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. And no judgment from me. It's more just curiosity how and why people niche themselves.
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C
Yeah,
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A
sometimes there's. There's historical personal motivations. Right. Of why we. Yeah, yeah. Cool. No, that's good. Do you ever do any outreach stuff within church communities and stuff of like educating pastors or congregations?
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C
Yes, absolutely. And I'm in the process of wanting to do more of that. I have spoken at a church before and I'm looking to kind of collaborate, actually with one of my colleagues, Justin. We're hoping to collaborate and get to speak and educate churches and would love. I'd love to offer some, like, free zoom educational meetings for pastors that could join us for like, wherever, not just in Texas. And then maybe eventually like in person meeting as well. So definitely that's on the horizon and it's like close within view. I've been working on a slideshow currently, so.
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A
Yeah. Okay, nice. Good, good. And so. Okay. So family. Family members. How do you bring in family members, if at all, to sort of support your clients?
- [29:54]
C
Yes, for sure. So I will ask them in the first or second session after I've done intake with them if they are open to this and then are. I will let the client know that it would be very beneficial, most likely to educate them on OCD if it's a minor client. I mean that parents in their day, one first minute, like I involve the parent very much if they're under 18. If they're over 18, I will ask for the client's permission, of course. But I think it's beneficial because I always tell clients, hey, your family lives with you and I don't. So, like, let's get what the water level is from the person who's living with you and then let me help you educate them on ocd, especially so they don't do something called co compulsing, which is where like they're offering reassurance to people and then they're basically just helping that person compulse and compulse rather. And not knowing that they're causing their loved one to loop over and over.
- [30:44]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:45]
C
And then the loved one's asking for reassurance and isn't knowing that that's part of ocd. So it's really crucial to involve that. Another word for it is accommodations. We want to make sure they're not loved one.
- [30:56]
A
Yeah. And I sometimes find that with, with loved ones, they're so anxious themselves because of everything that's going on that if you don't contain them, then they're going to spill out onto your client. And again, yeah, just such an overwhelming experience. Right. So it's trying to hold the whole system when appropriate.
- [31:17]
C
Yes. I love, I love encouraging loved ones in this way of telling them like, hey, all you got to do is make an empathy statement. You know, encourage them, hey, I can see this is really hard for you right now. And you're really anxious. Say something like, hey, do you think this is your ocd? Or, you know, some of my younger clients will give their OCD a name. Is this, is this Billy? You know, is this ocd? You know, and then, and then some statement of, I believe in you, I believe you can face this without me reassuring you and I'll be with you here while you do that. So there are ways loved ones can offer support without reassuring. And once they know that that's helping their loved ones brain get better, then I think they're more willing to do that.
- [31:53]
A
Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Awesome. So a couple slightly different questions. If you could pick up the phone and call the 20 year old you, what do you tell her?
- [32:06]
C
If I could, if I could talk to her.
- [32:08]
A
Yeah. What would you tell her? Yeah.
- [32:10]
C
Yeah. Oh, I love that. I think I'd tell her that she's really strong and brave to be talking to her pastor and that she definitely has OCD and that as she learns to entrust those compulsions to Jesus and does some uncomfortable exposures, that it's going to get better.
- [32:28]
A
Nice. I like it. And you've got a billboard in Fort Worth. What do you want written on that billboard?
- [32:36]
C
Oh, probably something about reviving your heart, mind and soul. Like my practice, because it's very holistic. And then something about ocd. Maybe my book title, my upcoming book title, Gap Filler. Captive to Captivated. Just kind of would want people to know that they can walk away from the captivity of OCD and become captivated with something else and hopefully do. This is my goal of the book.
- [33:00]
A
So yeah, yeah, I like it. And Gap filler. Does that link back to that sort of pie analysis?
- [33:06]
C
It does, yeah, it absolutely does. It's interesting how many clients I've had tell me that is the most helpful illustration and I'm like, great. So my counselor came up with the pie part and then Jesus and I came up with the him filling the gap part and so we tagged him and now clients love it and I can't wait to have that in my book.
- [33:23]
A
So awesome. Awesome. When any like timeline on the book?
- [33:27]
C
Yeah. So I'm going to self publish. So Lord willing, I'm going to launch it either later this year or the first part of next year. So within a year I should be able to hand it mail it to you.
- [33:35]
A
Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So anyone listening about a year from the date this goes published, go visit Rachel's website and yes, you'll be on there. Cool. So lastly, is there anything else you wish you could have said or shared today?
- [33:54]
C
See? Oh, I think just maybe a quick shout out to some resources that I point clients that could be helpful. I really love the work of the International OCD foundation iocdf and so there's wonderful resources on there for any kind of ocd. They also have a great resource page of like books, podcasts. Your own podcast is probably on there. Just so I think the iocdf, if someone's wanting to learn more about it or if you're past wanting to learn more about it, that'd be a good initial starting point. And then my, my buddy Justin, an hour from me, he's in the process of launching his book really, really soon and he's. I think his resources are fantastic for people who are struggling with scrupulosity. So I hope people, whether you're suffering or wanting to help OCD could look at that too. So.
- [34:38]
A
Yeah, yeah. Cool. And that's Justin Hughes for anyone. Yeah, any regular listeners podcast would have heard Justin probably before on the show. So.
- [34:48]
C
Yeah, yeah. Oh, and then one other thing I'll mention about my book that I think is I'm writing it to two audiences. I'm writing it to suffers of OCD and helpers of ocd. In each, in each chapter I speak to nuances of it. Hopefully a 16 chapter book. So meaning if you're a pastor wanting to learn more or if you're a sufferer or you're a mom or you're a therapist, like it really is for a lot of different people and it's going to have discussion questions end of each chapter to help suffers and helpers, there be a bridge there because I feel like there's such a misunderstanding around AC cd, especially between those two groups.
- [35:21]
A
Yeah, yeah, spot on. Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, thank you so much for coming on and giving your time and expertise. I appreciate it.
- [35:28]
C
Thank you Stuart. Really enjoyed it.
- [35:30]
A
Thank you for listening to this week's
- [35:32]
B
podcast and thank you to our Patreons who helped make this episode possible. And if you would like to find out more about Patreon and the rewards and benefits, then there will be a link in the episode description.
- [35:42]
A
If you enjoy the OCD Stories podcast and would like to support us, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you to NOCD for supporting our work. If you want to find out more about nocd, you can click the link in the episode description and quick disclaimer Guys, this podcast is not therapy. It is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek treatment from a trained professional until we speak. Take care.
- [36:15]
C
Sam.