A (0:00)

You're listening to the OCD Stories podcast hosted by me, Stuart Ralph. The OCD Stories is a podcast dedicated to raising awareness and understanding around obsessive compulsive symptoms. I do this for interviewing inspired therapists, psychologists and people who have experienced OCD. Welcome to the OCD stories and welcome to episode 523 of the podcast. And in this one I chat with Angie who has kindly agreed to share her OCD story with us. In particular, we discuss health anxiety, contamination themed ocd, suicidal themed ocd, compulsions, uncertainty getting therapy, including exposure and response prevention therapy, relationships, exercise, having a dog in relation to OCD and much more. So thank you to Angie for sharing her story. I really appreciate it. It was great to meet her and speak with her and hopefully you'll take something from it. And thanks to our podcast partners. Nocd. If OCD is interfering with your life, NOCD can help. They're licensed therapists, specialise in exposure and response prevention therapy, the most proven therapy for OCD with NOCD, effective treatment that is 100% virtual, is available for children and adults with OCD. And most members can get started within seven days on average. No hassle, just real science backed help and support between sessions. Begin your journey@nocd.com or I'll put the link in the episode description. So thank you to you guys for listening. As always, it means a lot and I do mean that. And of course thank you to Angie for sharing her story and giving her time. Without further ado, here she is. Welcome to the podcast, Angie.

B (1:44)

Yeah, I guess I'll start with. Well, when I was really little, like I think like many people with ocd, my stuff started when I was very, very little. I would probably say that like my kind of earliest memories of this kind of anxiety and fears kind of was when I was around 7 and like the H1N1 epidemic kind of happened. And I remember seeing stuff on TV with it and being very like concerned, very aware of my body and like my kind of throat and things like that and very scared of getting sick. But even before that I think that there had been stuff that started because when I was very little, like 2 years old, my grandma got cancer and I was living with her when she got cancer. And I think that I had these really kind of visceral images of her being very ill and very kind of immunocompromised at that time. And that made me kind of always a very precocious kid where I was like, mom, I'm afraid I'm going to get Cancer, Am I sick? So my parents were both doctors. I grew up in Colombia. And during this time period, I think my parents, like, don't have a lot of knowledge about, like, I think, the mental side of things. Like, they're doctors, but they don't have a great understanding of that. And they would see maybe a kid kind of being anxious about it, and they're like, you just. They would take. Which is, like, you just want to. Like, you just want attention kind of a thing. They didn't mean it in, like, a bad way, but I think for me, it was, like, a kind of sign of things for me, kind of starting with anxiety. But it didn't. I would say, get bad, bad until, like, when I was in college, and I guess, to start with that. So, yeah, health anxiety, kind of stuff, kind of starting with germs and cancer. Ever since I was, like, basically, I can remember. And as a kid, I. I think I had a lot of, like, religious kind of fears, too, where I was like, I wouldn't want to say something wrong or lie to people. I was not very good at lying. I was not very good at doing those things. And so I felt guilt very deeply. I was like, mom, I'm so sorry I did this, or, grandma, I did this. I'm so sorry. And also, when things would be, like, in my household, like, because I grew up in a very Catholic culture, if, like, I dropped a rosary on the floor or something like that, I was like, I think I'm gonna go to, like, hell or something for this. And that was stuff I was very aware of. And so I was always a very anxious kid. I was, like, kind of had some separation anxiety and stuff. But it wasn't like, a community or culture that, A, either identified those things as, like, potentially concerning and no one would have, and B, not that, I don't know, kind of complicated. So then I moved to the US And I think that that's when stuff kind of started getting maybe a little more serious when I was, like, 10 or 11, and it was things like, I can't be in a car with someone if they cough. I have to open the windows. And obviously, that's something that gets a little disruptive after some time, or people think that you're disgusted by them. So what I learned to do was to hold my breath for a certain period of time until I felt like it was okay to not do that. And that was the kind of stuff that I think I did through my childhood, like, holding my breath when people got sick and kind of Things like that. And eventually that kind of developed into like more of a contamination type thing where I was really scared that I was going to get sick with viral stuff. And when I would get sick, for me it would become this thing of I can't stop being aware of it. So I need to like, if I am sick, I feel my throat be sore. So what would happen is that I would not sleep at all during the entire period because I'd be so fixated on like, I feel my swallowing, I feel my swallowing. And this would go into the spiral of if I can't sleep and I can't stop sensing all this stuff, then I can't rest because I am too wired to go to sleep and then I'll never get better. And so it became this kind of thing towards high school where I was just really paranoid of getting sick. And so with kind of living in a multi generational household with my family, it was really difficult because I'd be like afraid of being near people when they were sick. So I'd try to figure out ways in which I. I didn't have to interact with those things. And that gave me a bit of a hypochondriac, I think, reputation within my family. So it was like, I think a lot of tension sometimes kind of came from that, but it was never a thing of seeing as it wasn't. It was seen as a personal flaw rather than like a, oh, this is a problem that maybe you have or something wrong that is with you. And yeah, so. After this, I think I would say that stuff got kind of like in high school I was very fixated also with like my grades, my schoolwork and stuff like that. And so, um, I don't know if this is necessarily an OCD thing, but for me it was like I was so paranoid about like what my teachers thought about my grades. So I'd ask my friends, like, do you think that she's gonna give me a good grade? Do you think this is gonna be good or bad? And obviously that was like really frustrating for the people around me. But I really couldn't help it because I was so anxious in the environment. I went, I went to a design high school where like people would rip up art from the walls and things like that. So I was like, so paranoid. So I would ask my friends, like, oh my God, do you think I'm gonna get a bad grade? And like, I really needed that constant reassurance because it was such a really kind of toug. But I guess it really kind of Hit as this, oh, this is a problem type thing. Kind of towards the end of that where like. Like, I always had these periods of time where I could, like, be like, oh, my God, what if I have cancer? I'm so afraid that, like, I have a really bad disease right now. And I don't know. But because I was living with my mom a lot of this time, it was easier for me to accept that as reassurance as I was like, because she's a doctor, she knows what she's talking about. She's someone that that, like, knows, and I can also have her for comfort. But when I moved away to college, I didn't have that anymore, and my mom lost her job. She was working as a medical assistant at the time. She didn't have her license in the US So we were very poor. And she went homeless while in my first semester of college, which was right before the pandemic, and I got really fixated on, like, this little mole that I found in the bottom of my foot. And I was basically, like, so fixated on this, like, momo. I was like, I'm convinced that I have, like, a melanoma. I'm convinced that I have that. Or I think that saying that I was convinced was the wrong thing. Because the problem was that I wasn't convinced, because I think I would tell myself, like, if this is what it is, if it is skin cancer, I'd be okay with that as long as I knew what it was. Because I couldn't tolerate the idea of not knowing. And so it was like this entire month and a half of me, basically, during my first semester of college, my life kind of falling apart. I was in this really academically difficult environment where the university that I went to was kind of top, top engineering school, and extremely difficult. And so I wasn't doing great in school. For the first time. I was struggling a lot. I was the only Hispanic person in my school. Pretty much, like, there were a couple of other. But not in my program. And I was first time dealing with all these emotions of loneliness and things. And I think that my brain was like, if you can control something, it's your body, right? So I think that it kind of became those, like, skin fixations. And so when I found that mole in my foot, I got really fixated on, like, this is cancer or not. And it'd be this stuff where I'd be even walking down the street and I'd have to check immediately. Like, I would sit down, check, take off my shoe, take a photo of the mole or identify it and kind of CM check if it was changing, progressing in any type of way so that I could know whether or not this was an issue, so that I could know whether or not I should go to the doctor for it. Because I also was like, they're gonna think I'm insane. This thing is like maybe 2 millimeters in size, but I am so fixated on it. And it was the kind of stuff where I was like, thinking about that for maybe like six hours a day. And I was also with this within school. I wasn't doing great in my classes and things like that. So it's very, very, very difficult. And I remember that during this period, I felt a lot of the times like, I don't think I'm gonna make it to 28 or anything, like, I'm not gonna survive because the amount of anxiety that I'm feeling right now, like, I feel like I don't even exist anymore. I just was like, genuinely, like, it feels like I never had felt that way. But it was very much this feeling of like, I'm not in my own body. I'm not. I don't really know what this means. And it very much was like this stuff where even though when I would go to sleep, I wouldn't really get rest of it because I'd be getting nightmares about it. And I'd tell myself, like, if it's cancer, it's something that's early stage. It's not something that's bad because it's like so small, you know? But then I tell myself, like, what is growing and proliferating inside of me, and it becomes the. These kind of really existential, I think, thoughts about it. And eventually I went to the doctor, I got it removed, and I. It kind of faded away probably as like midterms or finals kind of came around. But I started getting other fears on, like, oh, I feel like there's a lump in my neck. I'm worried that this is going to be an aggressive brain tumor or something because I had an aunt the year prior to that who died of like, a glioblastoma. And so when I was that there, I was like, okay, I. I know I'm this way because I've been like this since I was a little kid where I was like, so afraid of developing cancers. Like, yeah, like, I. I had fears like this before, but this time it's just so much more intense. And I know this is not normal, like, from a mental standpoint. I know it's because I'm Like a hypochondriac. Like, I know that I probably don't have these things, but it's some sort of anxiety that I think is just so severe that I can't shake. And it's the uncertainty that's really killing me. And I eventually went to a therapist or, like, the psychology clinic at the university, and I kind of started that process when the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, for me, it was actually really good because stuff started slowing down. And I think that, yes, like, I was someone who was afraid of contamination, stuff and things like that, but I was very restricted already. I wasn't going outside, or I was very paranoid of germs and things like that and paranoid of, like, diseases that when the rest of the world was kind of in that environment, I actually felt very comfortable and very. Okay. I wasn't paranoid that there was this Covid thing. It also meant that, like, everything was pausing. My mom was still homeless at the time, so I had to go live with my dad for a bit. But I was, like, starting to look into, like, therapy and things like that for. And that's when I went to my first therapist. And I distinctly kind of remember telling her, like, this stuff. And I was trying to do this because I. I needed accommodations for school because I was not doing good academically. And it was because, like, the OCD and anxiety stuff was, like, making it impossible for me to finish exams. So I went to this therapist, and, you know, it was, like, a really good thing for me to have that, because she helped me how to deal with that anxiety, but she didn't know enough about OCD to understand that that was maybe what was going on. And I think it took, like, four therapists for me to even get diagnosed with ocd. And so with. Which is kind of why I guess it's so important to me to maybe tell my story, because if someone hears it and is, like, that's similar to me, maybe it would help them too. But anyway, with this therapist, I remember very distinctly because I was already thinking. I was like, this feels very obsessive. I'm gonna guess it's something kind of ocd, like. But I really didn't want to deal with, like, oh, OCD is. I don't know. It's. It's kind of like a. Another level, I guess. Everyone talks about anxiety and depression, but when you start getting to things that are a little more specific, like ocd, bipolar, things like that. Like, that. That feels so much more real. So I didn't want to bring it up. I also was like, what if I bias her something if I tell her, like, I think maybe this is what's going on. But she was like. I remember she asked me, like, do you have any compulsions? And for me, I was like, no, I guess not. Because I would think that that was like the hand washing stuff or the kind of more ritualistic things that had to do with kind of like, yeah, I have to do this X number of times because it's super related to things that I'm doing. But everything that I felt that I did felt like it had a reason. So it was like, yeah, I'm checking my body so that I make sure that this thing that I'm stressed about isn't, like, a thing. And that's what I tell myself. Or I would take photos of my body to kind of keep track of things and that kind of stuff. And it was never kind of. To me, it felt like what I would think of as a compulsion. And especially, I think then I hadn't seen a lot of stuff with, like, health anxiety that specifically pertained to ocd. So I was like, I know it's some sort of anxiety, but it would feel wrong for me to call it ocd, because I'm not sure. And then maybe that was a little OCD too, but so it helped. I was able to get a bit academically kind of more oriented and kind of deal with not so much the ocd, but at least deal with the academic performance anxiety. And I was back eventually back at home with my mom, and that made things better. And I think through this time I was having a lot of kind of other anxieties, but it was kind of the same as I always had. Like, ever since I was basically seven, I've had these OCD thoughts and OCD obsessions, but. And things that I do, but because it's so, like, part of my life at this point, I think that I was just kind of like, okay, I think I'm fine now. What I'm just gonna do is that I'm never gonna look at anything related to cancer again. Very normal things, you know? And so that's kind of how I live for those two years, I think also, like, going back a little bit when I was afraid of, like, the thing in my foot, the way that the OCD manifested for me was that, like, it got to the point where I couldn't even go outside and I couldn't even look at my own body. Like, I. I would take showers and I would just deliberately not look at my body because I knew that if I looked at my body, I would just find something else to get triggered with because there would be something else for me to observe. And I was like, I can't do that anymore for myself. I feel like that's a very painful thing for me to keep looking at my body and keep finding these things. So I stopped wearing short sleeve things. I would wear things that would like clot watches and things like that to cover my body because I didn't want to see it. So for me, this kind of avoidance around my body and was a big thing. And I think that's kind of how I lived in the kind of coming years where I was trying to avoid things that would trigger me. So I didn't want to hear about anything related to like cancer, disease or. And I would still avoid people who were sick or I would get really paranoid about like, people coughing near me and holding my breath and that kind of stuff. But I was able to be pretty okay with it for that time. So around the time when I was like maybe 1920, in 2021, I. I think I was getting more of these kind of maybe meta or, I don't know, abstract kind of obsessions on, like, what's wrong with me a bit. I was like, more like these broad things of like, I feel like I have this OCD thing, but I don't really know how to do. And it's so hard for me to mention why this thing is making me so stressed. But it's a lot about the uncertainty about whether or not I have or don't have this thing. And it's making me really sick. And I remember distinctly telling my mom, like, I think there's something wrong with me like this because I can't feel. I just. I feel like my brain is just going into these loops and getting really fixated on trying to, I think, solve thoughts. Like, I don't care about this OCD thing, but I care more about solving whether or not this is a thing that is objectively true or not. And it was one of those things that was like, getting me really sick. But it was really hard to explain to people. Why are you worried about that? It doesn't really matter. And cognitively I know, but I think for me it really mattered that like, my thoughts made sense to me and thoughts don't do that. So I was fixating myself on like, trying to solve everything so that I could move on from the thought. So I was like, I need to decide whether or not. I've believed this is true so that I can move on from the thought and continue having my life. And I would. I knew that was stupid, but I couldn't walk myself out of it. I had seen, I think, another therapist by this time, and she. And I didn't click very well. She was also someone who was, like, very strict in therapy. And again, it was one of those things where, like, even if I explained the things that I was going on with, she wouldn't be able to understand it. It was also because I had gone through many things that were probably a bit traumatic, like within my immigration journey of my mom being homeless, financial stuff, family dynamics that are really common in Hispanic people. I think it's really easy for people to kind of jump immediately to, like, well, this is just things that are related to, like, trauma that you have to unpack. And I think that's where a lot of that kind of kept falling through in that therapy journey. And so I think by the time that I really did end up getting diagnosed was one time kind of, I started seeing a new therapist. I was telling her, like, I feel like it might be OCD or something of the sort, but we didn't really talk a lot about it because nothing bad had happened then. And I had this internship in that I had to move states for, and I was working through this internship, and I had a lot of relationship and roommate drama happened with me. And this made it very uncomfortable for me to be in my own house. So I was working myself from, like, 8am till 9pm Because I didn't want to be home. And that kind of triggered, I think, something in me. And I found, like, another mole behind my shoulder. And I convinced myself that it had changed. So, like, what I would do is, like, I ripped it off, thinking I was, like, trying to convince myself that it was a scab and not, like, a mole or something. And that ended up getting a really weird shape. And I ended up kind of having a relapse of that, like, I guess, mole thing. I call it the mole incident because it was so. It was an incident to me. It was very traumatic. And I say it as a joke, but also, like, because it's so. It's so silly. But also at the same time, it was, like, very real to me at the time. And I had com. I was like, very much like, oh, my God. Like, and. And that's where I got really, like, this. The problem here is, like, not whether or not I have cancer. Like, I tell myself this. Like, it. If I have cancer. Then. Then it's fine. It's probably, like, early stage. It's not a big deal, anything like that. But then, like, now my skin stained it and I have to worry about the fact that I could get cancer and could get skin cancer every time for the rest of my life. So I have to be very aware of the rest of my skin for the. For the rest of my life. And that's where, like, my brain would, I think, like, loop into these things. I went to the dermatologist, and I remember her saying something like, yeah, I'm glad you came here. This is kind of concerning looking, because you know what? There was a scar that grew on top of it. So under a dermatoscope, it would look really weird. And for me, when she said that to me, I was like. I was like, oh, my God. Oh my God. I was like, I'm dying. And my mom. I was like, remember calling my mom and things like that. And I think that. I think during this time period, I had to make, like, an emergency appointment with my therapist. And I was telling her, like, all this stuff, and she was like, okay, we. We have to. We have. When you get back to Pennsylvania, we're going to do some, like, ERP stuff and get ready with that. And I was like, okay, okay, okay, I guess. I guess. I guess. Okay. And she was like, because clearly, like, this is something that's happening, I think, with you there. Because I was going really kind of insane over this stuff. And I think from then on, I was not very good with ocd. And that was like, my last year of college. And I had to do a lot of life changes to kind of, I think, accommodate myself through that. But, yeah, I realized then, I think after reflecting, I was like, this is a problem. This is probably not good for me to be like this or. And it wasn't, obviously, I think, my fault. It was kind of things that had been going on and the way that I was reacting to the stressors around me. But I needed to actually seek that appropriate diagnosis as well as the kind of treatment for it. And so during the rest of that year, I worked with her to kind of address these things. And I think that for me, what was very telling was just realizing, like, I didn't really connect the stuff that I think I had with contamination with this until here. Like, for me, it was a bunch of these little separate things. But when you paint it into a whole picture, it's very clear that there's something wrong happening. And during this time, I was having a lot of really violent, intrusive thoughts. I wasn't. I wouldn't say that there was like. Like I was feeling uncomfortable by them, but it wasn't something like I was deliberately avoiding or not doing things like that, but it was just like this barrage of just horrible thoughts repeatedly. And I was, I think, feeling like I was in this jail for a long time repeatedly. And so during this time period, like, she's. She was still a student therapist because I couldn't afford a real therapist. And she kind of gave me access to like, these OCD workbooks. And we would work through them together by filling them out, trying to identify things and kind of doing all these things and have like, these 40 pages of just exercises that I did with her, following this, like, ERP workbook and kind of doing those, like, exposures that really helped. She also was very encouraging with me being like, you need to get into the tribe medication. I think it'd be good for you because so much of your stressors are also coming from these external things that are happening in your life. And I was very paranoid with medicine because I think the idea of medication for me was like, it's going to change this idea and this sense of self within me and what if it actually just makes things worse and things like that. And in hindsight, it was like, really good for me to go into it because I personally found it to be really, really, really helpful for my ocd. And it really helped me be in a mindset where I could engage better with the ERP stuff that I was working on with her. And I'm really glad that she was educated enough in OCD to be able to identify what was going on with me that like, other people had not been at the time. And I think after that, it wasn't like the most proper, probably ERP I could have done. Like, I. I hadn't seen, I would say an OCD therapist yet at this time. And I graduated college and I was able to kind of keep going with it, but I was reflecting a lot and I think kind of how OCD impacted me. And so I found a lot of comfort in like, the OCD story. My ocd? Yeah, the OCD stories and the book, like Turtles all the Way down, because to me, that was like a very, very explicit representation of how it was for me. And I think after graduating college and stuff like that, there's been a lot of moments where it has come back. And even more recently for me, it's like, on things with self, harm, OCD kind of. I went through some periods of times where I was like, every time that I feel sad, my brain kind of goes into this, like, what if you're actually suicidal and you want to kill yourself because you're sad right now? And I'd go into these kind of cycles of, oh, my God, I. I don't want to kill myself, mom, or something like that. Like, I just, like, I'd start crying and I'd be like, oh, my God, I don't want to kill myself. And tried to. I think work with those emotions was really hard. And similarly, I think once I was. And now more recently, I think I'm trying to be in relationships. And this was something that definitely came up through this whole time period for me, but. And definitely kind of came up before when I was younger. But I'm now realizing, like, it's really hard now. I'm trying this. And right now I've been. I decided to see a therapist through an ocd, and it's been about kind of working through that relationship stuff. And that kind of goes around the whole thing of I don't even know if I'm capable of feeling attraction. What does attraction feel like? What does it mean to like, someone? Is this the right way to feel someone? Am I leading someone along? Am I a bad person for doing this? But it also goes into, like, what if I get an std? What if their saliva has something? What if all those things are things? And so right now, what I'm working on through is the relationship component of things, which is I didn't realize just how much my inability of being able to be in relationships was affected by ocd. But it really is basically like, every theme I could possibly have that goes into it. And so it's one of those things of, like, yeah, for a long time, I think I felt very complacent with not dealing with the contamination stuff because I had so many things around it, or not dealing with the stuff with morality and sexuality. And now I'm realizing, like, it all kind of merges into this, like, relationship stuff. And it's made it very difficult for me to either to connect with people in specific ways and to, like, be in these relationships. And so this is something that I'm still kind of actively working through. But it's a very confusing, I think, think, because sometimes when I hear people talk about OCD and relationships, it's more about, like, my partner and I are not feeling like I'm, like, feeling doubts with my relationship. But for me, it's Actually this idea of like relationships as a whole and even being able to get into them. And I have a lot of friends who also have ocd and we've been talking a lot about how. I don't know, it impacts us in that regard too. So that's what I think so far, or at least currently. My biggest struggle with it is. And I think I'm still in progress in trying to undo those things because it's been so many years of. I think especially how I'm. How I've protected myself with the contamination stuff and like relationship stuff. That it's about trying new things and exposing myself through trying new things. But it feels really weird and I don't know. It's a process and I think it's. It's still ongoing. Yeah, sorry. This is like a probably super disorganized way of saying my story.