← The OCD Stories
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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the OCD Stories podcast hosted by me, Stuart Ralph. The OCD Stories is a podcast dedicated to raising awareness and understanding around obsessive compulsive symptoms. I do this for interviewing inspired therapists, psychologists and people who have experienced OCD. Welcome to the OCD stories and welcome to episode 525 of the podcast. And in this one I chat with Charlotte who has kindly agreed to share her OCD story with us. And in particular we talk about worrying she was pregnant as a kid, realising it's OCD experiencing Theme switches Harm themed OCD, mental health health anxiety, suicidal themed OCD getting therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy and exposure and response prevention therapy. We also talk about acceptance, a joy journal and much, much more. And thanks to our podcast partners, nocd. If OCD is interfering with your life, NOCD can help Their licensed therapists specialise in exposure and response prevention therapy. The most proven therapy for OCD with NOCD, effective treatment that is 100% virtual, is available for children and adults with OCD and most members can get started within seven days on average. No hassle, just real science backed help and support between sessions. Begin your journey@nocd.com or I'll put the link in the episode description. So thank you so much to Charlotte for her time. It was great to hear her story and of course thank you to you guys for listening. As always, without further ado, here is Charlotte. Welcome to the podcast, Charlotte.
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B
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
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A
Yeah, it's good to have you on. So yeah, it'd be great to hear your OCD story and you can share that now as little as much detail as you want to give.
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B
Oh, okay. So I guess I'll start when I was younger, I think, I think I kind of had OCD tendencies from quite a young age. I can remember experiencing quite frightening intrusive thoughts when I was quite little actually. And I can remember asking my mum what they meant and did it mean I was a bad person. I remember seeking reassurance from her a lot growing up and I just. There were certain things that I did that I guess you could kind of dismiss as like childhood quirks. And looking back now I know that they were OCD related. So I often. I found school quite difficult. I had a lovely school, I had lovely friends, but I can remember having to pray before school each day and not in like a, you know, we're not particularly religious or anything, but not in like a kind of morning prayer type thing. It was like a repetitive prayer that I would make Myself say kind of over and over again before school. And I guess it's that kind of magical thinking aspect. I kind of felt that if I prayed that I would have a good day, that nothing bad would happen. Um, and I remember doing that. I was quite little, like maybe like 8, 9, 10. I remember doing that. Um, and then I. I only thought about this recently because, obviously because of the podcast and I was having a chat with my mum and she brought it up and I remember thinking, oh, my goodness, I can't believe that. But I'm told it's quite a common one. But I guess I was maybe 9 or 10 and I tripped over a friend at school, it was a boy. And I convinced myself that I was pregnant and I wouldn't have known anything about sex, anything about that kind of thing, but I remember being really worried about it and constantly having to ask my mum, like, about it. And looking back now, I can kind of see, you know, often with OCD things, you can see, like, the ridiculousness of it. But at the time I remember finding it really distressing. And yeah, I was quite young at that point. That was definitely primary age.
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A
Yeah. As you say, it's. It's more common than you think. Yeah. Worrying about pregnancy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When there's been no sexual contact or anything at any age. Yeah, People get that worry.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. It's a strange one, but, yeah, I am told it's. It's reasonably common.
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A
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, keep going.
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B
Yeah. So I, as I say, I definitely had tendencies like that growing up and then it sort of didn't. It didn't. I guess it was always there in the background, but it didn't really bother me until I was an older teenager. I don't think I was. I think I was maybe 17 or 18 and I had done my A levels, had done really well, but hadn't gotten into the university that I wanted at the time. And it was a real shock and it was just like I can only. And each time this kind of flare up has happened, this is the way that I've described it, because it genuinely feels like this at the time, but it is like a switch went off in my head and one moment I was okay, and the next moment I was. I really, really wasn't. And I think it was because it was kind of an unexpected change. I don't cope with change particularly well and it was a real shock. And all my friends were going to go off to university and I was going to have to have a gap year at home working not Particularly doing anything fun like traveling. It was just going to be just at home, really. And I think it was sparked by. I think I had read something in a newspaper about a particularly gruesome murder, and I had a really vivid nightmare that I had harmed somebody I loved. And it pretty much felt like overnight my brain just became. I just didn't recognize myself at all. And I think at the time as well, I had such a stereotypical viewpoint as to what OCD was, so I only ever associated it with. And obviously, I know it can be related to cleanliness or orderliness, but that's what I thought OCD was. So it never occurred to me that what I was experiencing was ocd. I had absolutely no idea. I basically thought, okay, you're not safe, you're going to lose everybody you love and potentially you're going to be arrested for, you know, doing something awful. And it was really horrible. And I think the only reason that I came to know that it was OCD was because I think one night I was just so exhausted with it that I just googled it and I came across a forum and somebody had written down something very similar and they had a reply from someone saying, oh, I have this. It's ocd. And I think that was a real pivotal moment because I just clicked that it was ocd. Of course it is. And I think just knowing that it was OCD at that point in my life really helped me to step back from it and just engage with it, because I finally had an answer as to what it was. And, yeah, I was kind of able to get on with my life, go off to university, make friends, do really well, really enjoy it. And although it definitely still, I remember being quite anxious the first term, but I went to see my new GP and I still didn't say what it was that I was experiencing because I just felt too ashamed. And I still felt that if I said what was in my head, that something terrible would happen. So I think I just explained to her that I felt anxious. And she, to be fair to her, she was lovely. And I've never forgotten it because she held my hands because I was crying, and she just said, you know, we're going to get you through this, we'll get you sorted out. And it just. I think I started. I started antidepressants and I was. I think I was given some very basic cbt. It wasn't anything particularly memorable and obviously I wasn't having it properly because it wasn't sort of focused on ocd. It was more of a generalized anxiety type thing. But I think because I threw myself into my new life, I was able to, you know, work hard, do my degree, go out with friends. It didn't have a chance to take hold of me like it has done since. And yeah, for Most of my 20s it really faded to like a background hum. It would flare up if I was particularly stressed or tired, but it was kind of okay. I sort of became used to it in the sense that if it cropped up, I was able to be like, oh, there it is. Like, don't engage with it, just try and detach from it. And that's how it was for a long time until I guess maybe about three years ago now when I experienced like the worst flare up I've had since. And that's when it kind of changed and I had to get some property targeted help for it.
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A
Yeah, yeah. In what way did it change for you? Was it a new, whole new theme or was it just a flare up of past themes?
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B
Yeah, so it was kind of a combination of two things. I had some physical health problems and unbeknownst to me, I was anemic, but I had like a racing heart and felt very tired and I just didn't feel like myself. So that was going on kind of as well. And I, I know now that I experienced a theme change which I didn't. I wasn't aware. I. I am now obviously that you can have many different themes and they can be at the same time. You can have a kind of whack, a mole thing where one crops up. And like I'm very much aware of that now. But at the time I wasn't able to identify that it was ocd. So it basically switched from. I guess usually I would have a harm OCD about harming others. And this time because I was experiencing such physical symptoms, I felt so anxious. It kind of went from, this isn't OCD anymore, this is something else. You're not going to be able to cope with this. This is something that's beyond you. And I kind of remember feeling. I've never felt anxiety. Like it was like pure terror. And I remember going to my parents and saying, please take me to hospital. Like, I cannot cope with this. And it kind of. At first I was convinced I was experiencing psychosis, then it was schizophrenia, then it was dementia. Like it was literally just anything that it was not in my head it was like, this isn't OCD anymore. This is not something that you know how to cope with. And then it just Went from that to, you're not going to be able to cope with this anymore and you're going to take your own life and that's what you're going to do. So then it went from that to kind of, I guess, suicide ocd. Yeah. And, yeah, I think I was fully under its thumb because it was so sneaky, and I just fell completely under it, basically. And, yeah, that was probably when it's been at its worst.
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A
Yeah, it sounds horrible. And. Yes. Is it fair to say, like, at that point, because you knew. You knew that you'd had OCD prior to that, at this point, was it like, it had kind of, as you said, gone under the radar? And I didn't realize this was OCD anymore.
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B
It really. It really did. It really caught me out, I think.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And. And also I've. I've. You know, I felt anxiety before, but I've never experienced physical symptoms like that before either. So it just felt. I think it was able to be like, this is different and this is something that you're not going to be able to recover from. So, yeah, it was pretty brutal.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then you said you sought targeted help. Yeah, yeah. How did that go?
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B
Yeah, so I went to my GP and they were lovely, but he very quickly said to me, you know, I don't know much about OCD and I just feel that you need more specialized help. So he kind of. He sort of said to me, I feel you need to try a different medication, but I'm not the right person to help you with that. So I. I saw a psychiatrist for the medication side of it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Which was really difficult because when you're on one medication, in order to try a different one, you have to kind of come off it. And I was in the middle of a really bad, like, crisis, I guess. So that was really hard. And then that didn't work and it was decided I needed to go on a different class of drugs. So that was all quite difficult. And I was navigating that, you know, I don't know anything about that sort of thing. So that was really hard to navigate myself. So that was going on. And then at the same time, I saw a psychotherapist for the ocd. And we tried just trying to think which one I tried first. I think it was sort of a mixture of ERP and acceptance and commitment therapy.
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A
Okay. Yeah.
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B
Which, if I'm completely honest, I was in such a state at the time, I. And I should probably say, as well, I'd be interested in your Opinion, actually, but it's likely that I'm autistic. I've got an assessment in a couple of weeks, but people have said it to me before, professionals, et cetera. And I didn't know this at that point, but a friend recently said to me, oh, ERP isn't as effective if you're autistic. It just felt. The only way I can describe it is it. It felt like I was in a. Such a state of terror that the anxiety wasn't sort of allowed to rise and fall. And. Yeah, my brain just couldn't get used to that anxiety. So it just felt like it was really hard to. Yeah, yeah. If that makes sense.
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A
It does, yeah. I don't know the. The stats or evidence of the top of my head, but the way I understand it is we just need to make adjustments sometimes for anyone diagnosed as autistic. So, yeah, no, for me as a therapist is not a deal breaker in any way. I just think everyone with autism is different. So, you know, I can't just say, oh, I'll do these things for someone with autism, these adjustments, because some people might not need it. So I'll meet them and assess and then. Yeah, and then a few tweaks might get made. But no, in terms of. Generally speaking, I find outcomes pretty similar. Yeah. As long as those adjustments are made. And sometimes maybe we need to go a bit slower as well because of that, like anxiety tolerance and being able to ride out those waves a bit more. But that's not always the case. Some people, there's no difference. Yeah. So I don't know if there's any statistical difference in the research, but from personal experience, I don't think so. Just adjustments to be made.
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B
Okay.
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A
It's a hopeful message. Yeah. I don't think. Yeah, yeah. Then with adhd, some adjustments need to be made, but outcomes can be very similar. What I've found anyway.
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B
Yeah. I think out of what. Out of what we sort of tried, I think I found the acceptance and commitment side of it the most helpful.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And a really key thing, which sounds really silly now, but the kind of thing about accepting the thoughts, that the thoughts are there, but that they're not the truth. Because that was what I had always done. I had always just taken what I was being, you know, I always took it as well. This is what. This is what's truth. So just kind of really learning to take a step back and detach myself from, I guess, the narrative of what OCD is telling me. It's story because it's such a master storyteller and that has really, really helped me. And just like still living the kind of life that I want to lead without waiting to feel 100% better.
- [18:15]
A
That's it. That's a perfect way of summarizing it. And yeah, for someone, as you said, who's just really heightened, in a heightened state for long periods of time, we'd really want to be on trying to shift how they view that anxiety and their relationship to it. Otherwise doing ERP is going to feel, you know, face your fear. If you're like a 9 out of 10 out. 10 out of 10, anxiety is really, really hard.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You can try and shift that a bit. And people's view of anxiety is something that's safe and tolerable and it's the struggle that's creating the problem here as opposed to leaning into it. Yeah, yeah. Can. Can help. So good to hear that the ACT side of things is really helpful. Did. Did you eventually get to the RP side of things or was that helpful in any way?
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B
Um, I do. You know, I. I don't know that we really did. I. I think it was. I mean, I'd be interested again in your. In your view, but my OCD has, well, always been purely obsessional. So I think. I mean, perhaps I. If I needed. If I wanted to try it again, I'd be more. I feel like I'm in a much better place now to properly try it again than I was previously. So I. Yeah, I think we just sort of focused on the app side of things because I think for me it's really helpful and it's also why in the future I'd be really interested in trying to icbt because I think for me it's really important for me to kind of understand the mechanics of OCD and how it works and how you kind of get. Yeah, like the problem not necessarily being the intrusive thought or the obsession, but the doubt that. That it creates.
- [20:08]
A
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. I. CBT is definitely one to consider. It's something I trained in not too long ago and I'm exploring it currently. My go to is still ERP and ACT at this time. But yeah, anything that can help shift perspectives is good, which I think ACT does a good job and I think that's what ICBT aims to do and some of the psychoeducation. ICBT is really good as a way of understanding what's going on in the brain. What was the other thing he said? Oh, yeah. So, yeah. On with sort of pure O so obviously there are compulsions, but it's all like in the head. You're largely rumination, sometimes reassurance, which is a physical compulsion, but we often don't think of it that way. But, yeah, largely rumination. So, yeah, act is a really good fit for that. Depending on the skills that are in place within the act can be a good way of learning to not get pulled into rumination, diffuse all of that. So your ACT can be really good. And if you think about in some way you were doing ERP in the sense that if the therapist was helping you take action in spite of your thoughts and feelings and live your life, that would have been a form of exposure because you would have been going out when you didn't want to or doing so.
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B
Exactly.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
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A
Yeah. So exposure, I think, is inherently kind of intertwined within act itself. Yeah. Cool. Okay. And how long did you see that therapist for?
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B
It was quite a while. I think it was maybe eight sessions.
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A
Okay.
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B
Might have been slightly more. But yeah, there were other techniques that I remember at the time. So, yeah, I do remember kind of internally rolling my eyes at the time. But she suggested writing a joy journal, which I suppose is similar to a gratitude list. And she sort of said, you know, at the end of each day, write down three things that have made you smile or brought you joy. No matter how small they are, you need to get into the habit of doing it. And, yeah, I remember at first thinking, this is not going to help me. Like I was. I'm such. In that way, I can be so rigid with my thinking, and I felt really resistant to it, But I started to do it, and quite quickly, actually. I noticed. I guess it just gently reminded my brain that things can feel unbearably hard and you can feel literally kind of on your knees with anxiety. But no matter how hard things get, there's always something good amongst the pain. And I. I did do it for a good few months, and I still do it now, and it's been one of the most helpful tools that I've had. So that was actually really a good thing to do and to start doing, I think.
- [23:22]
A
Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting to hear. It's not something I particularly do as a therapist, but I think it's interesting and I think there's definitely use. Used to it, because as you say, it kind of keeps redirecting your mind each day back to. Yeah, okay, maybe there's a lot of sucky things right now, but if we look hard enough, there's also a Few things that, you know.
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B
Yeah. And nice also, like, you know, OCD kind of thrives on very black and white thinking and I have a very all or nothing type of brain, so it's like, well, this is really hard. I can't cope very well. That's it. Like, that is exactly how my brain would go. So it really did help me get things into perspective a bit better.
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A
Absolutely, absolutely.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
Okay. And you said you're so. It sounds like from an early. Just going back now, from an early age, you were kind of. Although you didn't know it was ocd, you were fairly open with your parents about sharing the worries.
- [24:22]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think we're really close. So they were always very aware if I wasn't myself or if I was quite. I mean, I am quite sensitive, so I think it was quite noticeable if I was worrying about something. And yeah, we have a sort of relationship where we're very open about things like that. So, yeah, they definitely knew they. Until, you know, I was a teenager and it. And it got really bad. Then it was very much, okay, this is ocd and we need to sort of try something different.
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A
Okay. Okay, good. Excellent. And have you had to work with them at all around sort of not reassuring you now that you know what's going on? And.
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B
Yeah, definitely. It's a very easy trap to fall into, I think, particularly if they're wanting to. Obviously, your family and your friends love you and want you to be happy. So it's. I think it's quite easy to fall into the trap of being like, no, no, no, you're fine, you're fine. Like, don't be silly. But no, they, they. They're all very aware of. Of what not to do. So, yeah, definitely no reassurance.
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A
Brilliant. Brilliant. And so obviously, Sami up in an act and obviously the joy journal, what else helps you day to day or has helped you.
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B
Also. So I know one of the techniques is to, like, vocalize your intrusive, obsessive thoughts with, like a funny voice or a different voice or to sing it or I guess to take the sting out of it. But I found it really helpful to visualize my OCD as like a monster on my shoulder. So the more you ignore it, the louder it gets at first, but eventually you starve it of attention and it gets tired. And I remember again, at first being a bit like, how is this going to help? But for me, the key thing in my recovery has been learning to accept that the OCD is there, but also learning that I don't need to engage with it and I don't need to fall into its trap. I can really learn to take a step back and live my life as I want to and just. Yeah, just not get so tangled up with it. Which I think is what's happened before when I've, you know, when I've had a particularly rough patch with it.
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A
Yeah, exactly that. When we buy into the themes and the stories and everything else it tries to tell us, it's kind of game over. We then get pulled into all the compulsions at that point. Yeah, yeah. It sounds like there you're able to kind of accept it a bit more, notice it.
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B
Yeah, I think before I was just fighting with it so hard and it wasn't getting me anywhere. I was just going round and round in circles. And I think now as soon as it's that moment of that kind of moment when you step from your reality into that kind of OCD imagination. And I'm much. I feel like I'm much better equipped now to notice when that's happening.
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A
Yeah. Oh, that's good.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
I mean, that is, yeah, that, that is a really good skill to get good at is noticing when. Yeah. When you're crossing over into that OCD bubble and being able to stop it and redirect your attention back to something else or the present moment or.
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B
Yeah, exactly. And also my, my sister had a little girl two years ago and I absolutely love being an auntie. And one thing it's taught me is that children are such a great way of keeping you in the present moment. And that has been a really lovely thing because spending time with her, like, I've just noticed that I just never go into that OCD mode because I'm constantly focusing on what's in front of me right now.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that. Okay, nice. And were there any roadblocks on your journey? And if so, how did you overcome them?
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B
I think, I think sometimes I.
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A
Too.
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B
Hard on myself in the sense that, you know, often you can have a bad day with it and, you know, there's always tomorrow, you can always start again. But I can be really hard on myself and it's very easy for me to sort of say to myself, well, that's it, you're back to square one with it now. And I've had to really learn, I guess, some just self compassion because one thing that OCD has done is that I often carry with me and I'm much better now. But certainly when it was at its worst, I just had this Persistent feeling of shame and just this kind of feeling that I just wasn't a good person and I just wasn't built for life like other people are. And again, that's just another story that my mind is telling me. And I've learned that, you know, that's just not the truth. So I had to be really careful with myself in just learning to step back, take a breath and be like, do you know what? It's been a difficult day. Or, you know, maybe I've given into some mental compulsions today, but I know what to do. I've got my little toolbox and you know, there's a. There's always tomorrow I can start again. And there's always hope that things will feel better. And usually nine times out of ten, they do.
- [30:41]
A
Yeah, yeah, good words, good words. So on a similar vein, just for anyone listening, what sort of words, words of hope do you have?
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B
So I'm actually. Am I allowed to. I've written down a quote. Am I allowed to share it? Okay, so this is a quote by a German poet called Reiner Maria Rilke. And it I'll just read, says, let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror, just keep going. No feeling is final. And I just find it so, so helpful. Yeah. Just because, like, I've had some really, really frightening, relentlessly exhausting moments in my life due to my ocd. And even though I've a few times felt like, oh my God, I don't know that I can cope with this much longer, I've always managed to just carry on, put one foot in front of the other as I say, get my little toolbox out, try and detach myself a bit from the stories that OCD is telling me. Try and step back, not get tangled up in its web. And yeah, life can be really hard, but there's always moments of beauty and joy. Um, and if you can just try your hardest to notice them, you'll be able to, as I say, put one foot forward and carry on. And the no feeling is final bit is also really helpful because I remember thinking a few times like, well, that's it, like, I'm not going to get better from this. And it just hasn't ever been true. There's always been another day. There's always been, you know, good moments, happy moments. And yeah, if you can just keep going, it's all waiting for you.
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A
Yeah, yeah, good words. And yeah, I like that, that quote. Okay, so if you could pick up the phone and call the 20 year old you, what do you tell her?
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B
20 year old, I think I would say, and I still need to say this to myself today, but certainly at 20, I think I'd say it's okay to be different. Different doesn't mean bad. And that is still something that I'm learning each day. But having ocd, having any mental health condition can often make you feel othered and just, just like you're not like everybody else. And I think if you can just, you know, everyone is, everyone is different in their own way. But just celebrate, celebrate the fact that you're different, you see the world in a different way and yeah, I think, I think just different isn't. Different isn't bad and the way that you look at the world is key to who you are and just carry on and things will be okay. Because I really needed to hear that when I was 20 because I often felt like things weren't ever going to get better and they always have.
- [34:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, really good point. And in addition to that, you know, you can pick up the phone and call that, that sort of 10 year old you, the one that was bumping into boys and feeling like she was getting pregnant, what would you tell her?
- [34:34]
B
Oh my God. I, I really sad for my childhood self because I feel like I spent so much time worrying and I just wasn't a carefree child. And I'm sure lots of people will relate to that, particularly if you had OCD symptoms when you were younger. But I think I'd say just try not to take everything so seriously, which is really hard when you're a serious little child, but just, just try. And it's okay to have fun and enjoy yourself. It doesn't, it doesn't have to always be this hard. And also, you know, lean always talk to your parents and you know, don't feel frightened on your own because you don't have to be on your own.
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A
Yeah, yeah, like it. And you got a billboard where you live. What do you want written on that billboard?
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B
Oh, okay, so it's another quote, I'm afraid, one of those types of days. But so on my arm I've got a line of poetry and I love it and I look at it all the time and it's just a nice reminder, but it's. So the poem itself is called to the woman crying uncontrollably in the next stall. I think it's by Kim Adonizio, I think that's how you say her name. But the last line of the poem is listen, I love you. Joy is coming. And it's one of my favorite lines of poetry. And it's just a nice reminder that things can be really hard and life is hard, but it's also really beautiful. And it's also full of joyful, gorgeous moments as well. And it's always. It's never far from where you are.
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A
I like that.
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B
Yeah. So I think that's what I get. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. Awesome. So is there anything else you wish you could have said or shared today?
- [36:44]
B
I don't think so. I think I've pretty much covered it.
- [36:49]
A
Okay. Excellent. Well, look, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's been great chatting with you, and I'm sure everyone else has found it useful.
- [36:59]
B
Oh, thank you so much. And thanks so much for the podcast. It's been invaluable to me over the years.
- [37:04]
A
No idea. That's my pleasure. Thank you for listening.
- [37:07]
B
Thank you.
- [37:08]
A
Thank you for listening to this week's podcast and thank you to our patrons who helped make this episode possible. And if you would like to find out more about Patreon and the rewards and benefits, then there will be a link in the episode description. If you enjoy the OCD Stories podcast and would like to support us, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you to NOCD for supporting our work. If you want to find out more about nocd, you can click the link in the episode description. And quick disclaimer. Guys, this podcast is not therapy. It is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek treatment from a trained professional. And until we speak, take care.