← The OCD Stories
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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the OCD Stories podcast hosted by me, Stuart Ralph. The OCD Stories is a podcast dedicated to raising awareness and understanding around obsessive compulsive symptoms. I do this for interviewing inspired therapists, psychologists and people who have experienced OCD. Welcome to the OCD stories and welcome to episode 537 of the podcast. And in this one I chat with Shannon who has kindly agreed to share her OCD story with us. And in particular we talk about her earliest OCD memory, Various themes of ocd, existential themed ocd, worrying everyone is a non playable character or npc, finding out it was ocd, starting therapy for ocd, doing therapy, homework, postpartum OCD support groups, non engagement responses, shame and much more. And thanks to our podcast partners. Nocd. If OCD is interfering with your life, NOCD can help. They're licensed therapists, specialise in exposure and response prevention therapy, the most proven therapy for OCD with NOCD, effective treatment that is 100% virtual, is available for children and adults with OCD and most members can get started within seven days on average. No hassle, just real science backed help and support between sessions. Begin your journey@nocd.com where I'll put the link in the episode description. So thank you so much to Shannon for her time and her story. It was great chatting with her and of course thank you to you guys for listening. As always, it means a lot. Without further ado, here is Shannon. Welcome to the podcast, Shannon.
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B
Thank you for having me.
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A
Yeah, it's good to have you here. So, as you know, I'd love to hear your OCD story and you can do that now. As little as much detail as you want to give.
- [01:51]
B
Sure. So no one knew that I had OCD basically my whole life. The, the earliest memory I think I have was maybe when I was like five or six years old. I just, I remember, you know, being on those movies, TV shows, seeing kids who would get so mad at their parents and they would go into their bedroom and they would say like, oh, I hate my mom, I hate my dad. And so I remember, I don't know what, but something annoyed me with my parents and I was upset and I just remember going into my bedroom and slamming the door and like saying that, saying I hate my mom, I hate my dad. And then I just got this sudden horrible feeling of what if, what if something bad happens to them because I said that and I felt like I needed to immediately take it back and so I, I just like sat there and started saying I love my mom. I love my dad. And then, you know, of course, it spirals from there. Of. Well, if I say I love my mom and my dad now I need to say I love my grandma and my grandpa and my sister and all. Like, it. It just spiraled from there. So that's my. My sort of first memory of ocd, kind of that magical thinking. And then growing up, it just. It was. It was always kind of manageable, something I could hide. I went to Catholic school for a few years, and I remember being terrified of hell and terrified of Satan and so worried that I was going to go to hell for really small things, like if I, you know, misbehaved, if I told a lie, if I. If I swore. Swearing was a big thing for me. And when I started going to public school, I remember hearing kids, like, swearing on the bus, and even, you know, my older sister would start swearing, and I. Oh, my God, like, you guys. I wouldn't say it, but I would think, like, you're. You're gonna go to hell now. And I wouldn't swear until, like, senior year of high school. Like, it was that intense for me. And then I had a lot of just, like, just right OCD growing up. Like, I remember I would have to raise my eyebrows, blink. I had this thing where I had to shrug my shoulders until it felt just right. And that, like, that's the moment when I finally kind of was caught. I remember my third grade teacher pulled me aside and was like, hey, I noticed that you're doing the shrugging thing. Are you feeling okay? Like, your parents know about it? And I was. I was mortified. I was so embarrassed. And I kind of forced myself to stop doing that. And it, like, I felt like my compulsion started becoming a lot more mental at that point because I was so afraid of people thinking that I was strange. So then it became a lot of, like, repeating words in my head. Anytime I saw or read, like, a negative word, like, even just the word bow or death or something like that, I would. I would find myself having to kind of neutralize it, right? Like, find a word that's more positive than what you're reading, or find a way that starts with the same letter. Like, you know those silly rules that you kind of make up when you have ocd that doesn't make sense to anyone else, but to you? Yes, it makes perfect sense. I was super superstitious. I remember my. My grandmother was very superstitious. And I remember her telling me that, like, if you have, like, junk in your Room, like something like food that smells bad, like you're going to have a nightmare if you smell it. And so then I would have to start thinking about things that smell nice, like, oh, well, I don't think I have anything in my room that smells bad. But like, what, what if I do? So I'm going to start thinking about roses or something else to try and, you know, neutralize that. And I had a fear of knives. I felt like if I touched a knife or thought of a knife that, you know, something would happen to some, the next person I thought about, you know, things like that. But I felt like it was mostly manageable growing up. Like, it was, it was something that caused me a little bit of distress, but it was something that I, you know, it wasn't impacting my life too much until I kind of got into my 20s and I was in my undergrad years. I was starting to get a little bit more depressed, feeling anxious, and I ended up starting medication. I didn't want to do any kind of therapy at that point because I was so embarrassed. And I was afraid that people would think I was crazy for having these, you know, these strange thoughts. And then it was around my mid-20s. I remember this moment so vividly. I was having dinner with my boyfriend, who's now my husband, and I was looking around the restaurant and I just had this thought of what if all of these people around me are like, like NPCs non playable characters from a video game, like they don't really have consciousness. And like, am I the only conscious person here? And I remember bringing it up to my boyfriend and I was like, have you ever had this thought before? And he was like, yeah, yeah, I've had that thought, like, and he thought it was so interesting. And he, he started, you know, talking about like this philosophical idea and he was like super into it. And I was like getting really scared and being like, maybe, maybe we don't talk about this anymore. I don't, I don't want to talk about this. This is really freaking me out. And all of a sudden like that, that was it. That was like the turning point in my OCD where things started to really not be manageable anymore. I felt like I was like living. Have you seen the Truman Show? That movie? Yeah, I felt like I was in the Truman show, but like, even the actors weren't even real. They're just figments of my imagination. And what if I'm all alone in this existence? And I remember I was trying really hard to reassure myself and Say, like, well, you know, even if it is all fake, at least it feels real. And that felt better for, like, you know, a short instance. And then more what ifs would pop up from there. Like, I remember I'm a teacher, and I remember I had car duty in the mornings one year, and I would watch the parents come and drop off their kids, and I'd watch them drive away. And I would think, do those people have lives outside of this moment, or do they cease to exist when they. When they leave? And I just remember it just started becoming all consuming and really dark. Like, I remember thinking, if I'm the only conscious person, what's the point of life? And I was terrified of that. I was terrified of being just, you know, alone and. But I also. I didn't want to die either. So it wasn't like, you know, this. These suicidal intentions or anything. It was just like this really scary feeling. But then it shifted over to obsessions over death and afterlife and this really, really intense fear of, okay, so what if I'm the only conscious person, but then I die and there's nothing? And that idea of nothingness, really, even. Even today, I think for most people, it's scary to think about. But, like, that. That was really heavy on me all the time. And I just remember I started dissociating. I felt very fragile, very on edge, always close to a panic. I would cry very easily. Small things would set me off. And I. I just had this feeling of, oh, my God, I'm losing my mind. And I felt like I was having some kind of mental breakdown. I thought, you know, it started. It started spiraling into other things. Like, well, maybe I'm schizophrenic. Maybe I'm this, maybe I'm that. And I. I just couldn't enjoy myself anymore. I wasn't present in conversations. I remember going on vacations with my boyfriend and just feeling like I could have small moments of feeling joy, but then those thoughts would come in and, like, steal that joy for me. And I was still so afraid of telling anyone because I thought, well, they're gonna think I'm crazy. What if they institutionalize me? What if this happens? And so my boyfriend had an idea of what was going on because I would share a little bit with him. But neither of us really understood that this was connected to OCD at the time, because while I had an OCD diagnosis from my pcp, I had never, like, worked with a specialist or anything. I hadn't done a ton of research into it. So I had A pretty limited understanding of what OCD was. So I remember I was doing a lot of researching into existence and near death experiences and being like, okay, this is proof. This is proof that there's an afterlife and I'm not alone. But of course there's no, there's no proof, there's no answers for any existential questions. But also nothing's good enough for ocd. So even when I felt like I finally, I finally got it, there was always that, well, what about this? What about that? And so I remember I came across a video on TikTok or something and there was a man who was talking about existential ocd and he, he was explaining like exactly what I had been going through. And I was like, what this is? This is ocd. This is part of what, you know, what I've been experiencing. And it was so, like life altering for me that, that moment realizing that this was, you know, this was something that could be managed. So I immediately started looking for OCD therapist and I came across no cd and I set up a phone consult with them. And I just remember bawling my eyes out after because I felt like finally, finally I'm understood, finally, like this, you know, I can work through this. And I remember going to my first appointment and just crying through the whole thing over like basic questions. Like, I remember my therapist just being like, okay, like we're going to talk about OCD today. And I was just crying. So, you know, looking back now, it's so funny. But, you know, I just, I just remember feeling so much relief after that first appointment. And even though it took me a long time to really work through it, I just remember feeling like, even though I would have these feelings of like, okay, I know what it is, but I'm never going to get better, I still felt like I was taking steps in the right direction. And I remember listening to this podcast as well and just feeling like getting these little tiny bits of hope of that. And I know I listened to a few episodes and I was like, well, you know, they have harm ocd. Like that can be. That can be fixed more easily than this. Or they have this kind, they have that kind. And I remember saying that to my therapist one time and he was like, OCD is ocd. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what the content is. It's all treated the same. It doesn't matter what triggered. It doesn't matter. Like, none of that matters. We're going to focus on getting through this together and everyone has their own journey. And I think that was really critical for me in my, my healing journey. And I just remember I worked my butt off through ERP and, you know, I do have some friends who have ocd. And I remember chatting with them about it and them saying, like, you know, I'm really still not getting better. And I would say to them, like, why are you doing your homework? And they would be like, no, I feel like it's easier with my therapist. And I would say, no, like, you need to do your work on your own. That's the only way you're going to get better is if you change your mindset. And I did find that, you know, the more that I was consistently working on it, the better I would get. And I remember I did a lot. My therapist would tell me too, you got to fake it till you make it. Like, the biggest thing I think for me in my healing journey were the non engagement responses. You know, a lot of, well, maybe, well, maybe. And I remember saying to him, like, well, I don't believe it, though. I'm saying these things and I'm not feeling it. And he's like, it doesn't matter. You're going to trick your brain. You just got to keep saying it. And he was, he was right. So I, After a few months, I really felt like I was getting my life back together. I, you know, I ended up getting married. I started seeing my therapist just, you know, every couple months. I was afraid of really relapsing and that started becoming, you know, that backdoor spike there. But he kept reminding me, like, it does again, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what kind of thoughts you have. We're going to treat it the same way. And I was really, I was really good for a while, and then I ended up having a baby. And I remember being super fearful of postpartum and what that would do for me. And it was challenging for me, but not in the ways that I would have expected because I remember reading and listening to different stories of women who had, you know, postpartum ocd. And a lot of it was like, fear of harming the baby or harming themselves, and I didn't have that. And I thought, oh, okay, maybe I'm in the. I'm in the clear. But then I realized I kind of had some sneaky compulsions going on, and I, I started getting really, really obsessed with, like, my baby's development. And she was, she was having some trouble with weight gain at the beginning, and so I was so obsessive over Milk production and like planning my entire days around pumping and nursing and supplementing and trying to, you know, make sure that she was gaining that weight, which is important, but it was, it was unhealthy how obsessive I was over it. And I also just remember being super obsessive over, you know, making sure she gets just amount. Right amount of tummy time and making sure I'm reading to her and talking to her and singing songs and like making this whole schedule for this, you know, one or two month old baby that it just wasn't realistic. And I was, I was leading myself to burnout. And so I went back to weekly therapy and my therapist actually recommended a support group for moms with ocd. And I found that to be so helpful just having that community. And a lot of the moms weren't new moms, which I think was also helpful for me because I was able to hear their struggles that share my own as well. And, you know, it was really good because it was. We weren't allowed to reassure each other, but I thought it was so helpful just to see other moms were able to get through this. So I think that was really important for me. Um, and I was able to get through it. You know, I increased my medication. I, you know, made sure that I recognized the compulsions that I was doing and really worked with my husband a lot too, to kind of pull myself back a little bit. Um, and so now my daughter's almost a year old. I only see my therapist every couple of months now. I still have, you know, obsessive thoughts. I find myself ruminating every now and then. But I, I do think that I've really broken that cycle and that ERT really, really changed my life for the better. And I think that's kind of my story.
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A
Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing and great to hear you're in a good place.
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B
Yeah. Thank you.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. And it's realistic, right? Cause you're saying I still struggle sometimes, but it sounds like you know what to do when it flares up.
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B
That correct? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
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A
How do you. So when it does flare, sort of flare up again, are you like, oh, no, here it is. And that. That kind of fear, or are you more like, oh, here it is, almost like fed up, I'm ready to do the skills sort of thing?
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B
Yeah, yeah. I, I feel like now it's more. And I, I talked to my therapist about this a few times that it's more irritation now. And he, he's been working with me on even. Even not giving it that, you know, that power of, well, don't let it irritate you. Just say, all right, well, it's here. Like, you can come along with me. We're just going to keep going through our day. So I think that's really difficult to do, but it's something that I've been working on and like, those non engagement responses are something that I always kind of carry with me in my toolkit.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that like a first. First line of defense almost of those. Those responses?
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B
I would say so, yeah.
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A
Yeah. Excellent. So it's the maybes. Is there any other ones you like to use?
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B
I don't need to figure this out right now. Is a big one. Like, that's not a question that I'm going to try and answer right now. You know, I may never know. Things like that are big ones for me.
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A
Yeah, I like that. Okay, nice. And how did your husband sort of. Well, I guess 1. How did he help out? But I guess before that, before he understood ocd, was he doing anything that was playing into the ocd? Unintentional?
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B
Yeah. I think definitely neither of us really understood, you know, reassurance seeking or like rumination. And I think for him, and I think my mom, too, especially when I did sort of share with her what was going on. They both were trying to reassure me a lot and trying to say, like, well, you know, that doesn't. That doesn't matter. Like, you have a great life, it's okay. And I think that's a very natural human response. Right. You want to try and make someone you love feel better and comfort them. But I kind of had to teach them myself of even, you know, when I'm going through this, you can't do that. And so my husband is very, very good now of being like, I don't know, maybe whenever I, you know, kind of go to him. So I think, yeah, definitely at the time there was a lot of reassurance seeking happening and I was getting that and it was just fueling that cycle.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you say, it's. It's. People love us, so they do it. Not realizing that it's not helpful. Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. But once he knew better, he did better, which is great.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And yeah, it's good to have someone fully on board with that. So going back to the very beginning where, you know, you got angry at your parents and you were like, you know, I hate them. And then obviously the OCD kicked in and was like, oh, is that you can cause them harm. Now, did that continue throughout life? That kind of. I can't be angry at people or not.
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B
Oh, that's a good question. I do think so. You know, I remember even, even to this day, my, My mom would say to us, like, never go to sleep angry at someone. And I think even, even now it's something that I think about. I don't, I don't. I have a hard time, I think, being, you know, upset with someone or having someone upset with me, trying to think. Yeah, I do. I do think that that's something that has played a role in my life. Even, Even today. I haven't thought about that.
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A
No worries. There's something else to work on in therapy.
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B
Yeah, yeah, right.
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A
Um, but no, I was just curious whether that was like just a one off initial trigger or whether it was a theme of OCD kind of throughout the years.
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B
Yeah, I think, I think, I think it was, I think even like thinking back to past relationships to of. Of constantly worrying if they. Are you mad at me? And you know what? Now that I'm saying that, I find. I think I asked my husband that several times a week. So that is something I need to stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
Or for him to go, yes, I am.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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A
yeah. Okay. All right. Interesting. Yeah. It's amazing how the brain will latch onto things in our environment. Probably it latched on when you were a kid of your mum saying stuff like don't go to bed angry, which is a normal thing to say.
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B
Right.
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A
So you can see how the, the anxiety, the OCD kind of will grab. Use any kind of thing in our environment. Okay. And there was. You talked about some sort of shame at one point around, you know, the OCD and not wanting people to think you're weird or anything like that. You're obviously here on this podcast now doing this. Right. Which kind of signals growth in that area, I'm sure. But yeah. When did that change for you where you were less sort of ashamed?
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B
I think when I, I became more educated on ocd. I think that is when things started to shift for me. And when I, I was feeling a little bit more healed and had a little bit more control, I, I started doing a lot more advocating for it because I felt like I was so hopeless. And then I came out of it and I, I wanted to make sure that no one else felt that way. And so I, you know, I started sharing things on social media about my OCD journey. I didn't share every, you know, I didn't share a Lot of the details. This is kind of that first time that I'm kind of coming out and sharing the whole story. But I. When I started sharing little bits, I found some people in my life coming to me and saying, hey, you know, I'm. I'm experiencing this too. And just being able to give them some resources was really gratifying, I think. And it's something that I think is really important to me now is to. Especially having a daughter, making sure that I'm speaking out and sharing what I'm going through and, you know, advocating for myself and also for other people who need it.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, good, good point. Yeah. The more we speak about it, the less reason to be ashamed there is because it becomes normalized in society is. But, yeah, the more we talk about it, the more normal it is, you know?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Or more accepted, I should say. So was there, like, a roadblock in your recovery? And if so, how did you overcome it?
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B
I don't know if there was, you know, any, you know, big roadblocks. I feel like it was. It felt very slow, but I, you know, I don't want to compare myself to anyone else, but listening to other people's journeys, like, I think it was actually pretty quick. I feel like there were. There were times when, you know, in between sessions when I would just feel so hopeless, like. And I think that was. Maybe that was a roadblock for me with my own mindset of this isn't going to get better. And I think, you know, looking back on it, if you think that way, if you think you're not going to get better, then you're not going to get better. So I think I really had to work with my therapist to. To shift that mindset, and I think that that fake it till you make it approach really did work because eventually I started, you know, seeing that, you know what, maybe I don't necessarily believe everything I'm saying to myself, but I'm seeing myself get better. So I think that was important for me, kind of overcoming my own, you know, my. My own negativity toward treatment.
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A
Yeah, good point. And, yeah, I think if we don't think it's going to work, we're probably less likely to try and do the home practice and. Yeah, because what's the point if it's not going to work? Why would I try?
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B
Exactly.
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A
And you mentioned that earlier, and I just want to highlight that. And I know there's. Well, you mentioned the importance of like, or your therapist said about, like, doing the homework the more you do out of session, the better you'll get, the quicker you'll get. And that's what you experienced, which is just great to re. Emphasize. And I know for some still listening, it's not as sometimes things get in the way and there's other factors, but it's still worth reiterating that where possible. The more we can increase that work ethic, that the better results we're likely to have.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Was it the harder. The harder I work, the luckier I get, is the quote.
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B
I think I like that.
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A
Yeah. Again, it's not always that simple, but I think there's some truth to it. Cool. So was there any epiphany moments? Moments that either the treatment or OCD just kind of clicked your understanding as like a light bulb moment?
- [28:50]
B
I don't know if I can think of any specific moment. I think, I think it was more of a process and it was more of a. Over time, it kind of like slowly built up to, you know, feeling. Feeling like I understand this disorder. I think that was, I think that education piece was so, so important. Just learning about the different, like, subtypes of ocd. And even though, you know, they're all sort of treated the same way with, you know, the exposure therapy, I think understanding them was helpful so that I could see, oh, you know, this thing that I thought or this thing that I've done is OCD too. Like, even, even today I find myself, you know, you know, thought patterns that I've had, you know, realizing, oh, you know what? Actually I think that's my OCD too. So it's just interesting how, how there's so much that you don't realize you're doing. Yeah, true.
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A
Yeah, good point. And so other than obviously like medication, therapy, obviously your husband was a big help. Was there any other things, whether it's OCD or just general, sorry, mental well being things you did that help, even to this day, help you stay on top of stress, ocd, anxiety.
- [30:18]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I think listening to podcasts really helps me. Like this podcast in particular. There are a few others I listened to about just anxiety and, you know, about the brain and the nervous system. That helped me getting myself out in nature, in quietness was something that when I was really going through, it was hard for me because I would be alone with my thoughts. And I think though doing that was really important for myself and learning to be okay with being alone with my thoughts and, you know, just being out in nature and getting that fresh air and that, you know, the sunshine was huge. Something I try to do now every day, too, is just go for a walk, be mindful. I did some different meditations that I found. I find that to be difficult with ocd, but I do think that. That it really helped me of just slowing myself down, taking some time to, you know, be mindful. And I think just really trying to, like, live by my values. Right. And, you know, focus on being present, being with my family, um, my friends, decreasing my time, you know, looking at a screen. Those kinds of things, I think really have made an impact on my mental health.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Really, really good list there. Um, and I'm glad you mentioned about nature. One, it being helpful. But two, actually, when you were struggling, it was actually kind of hard being in nature.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because it is. It's like you said, it's. It's not quiet because there's birds everywhere and the wind going through the trees and all of that, but it's still quiet compared to a city or where or even at home with the TV on. And. And I found that definitely when I was at my worst, it was a bit like an echo chamber, and it was torture, really. But as you said that what came to my mind is you can almost see it as a bit of an exposure going out in nature because you. It's like meditating. You are going into silence almost. But as you work through it and use your skills, actually it becomes quite peaceful and calming.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah, Nice. So words of hope for anyone listening. What would you tell them?
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B
I would say that even when it feels like there's no way out, that there is a way out, and that, you know, your brain's trying to protect you from troubles that don't exist. You don't need to be embarrassed. You aren't crazy. You need to do some work and get the help you need. And, you know, the more you work at it and the more that you give yourself grace, I think the better that you'll be. Yeah.
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A
Yeah, I like that. Good words. So you've got a billboard. What do you want written on that billboard?
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B
I thought. I thought a lot about a billboard. I would say I've been thinking a lot about my. My past self. Right. And thinking about wishing that I could reach out to her and, you know, give. Give those words of wisdom and say that it'll be okay, even though it's. Even though it's hard, but you can get through this. So I think I would like a billboard to say something like your. Your future self says everything's going to work out. I Think that's something that we all need. You know, just thinking about future self and where we want to be and kind of looking back at our top self and wishing you could say that.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that as a nice message. So on that same Spain, if you could pick up the phone and call the 20 year old you, what would you tell?
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B
Oh, man, that's making me emotional. I, I think I would, I would say, I would say that kind of same thing of like, you're not crazy. Your. Your. Your brain is really working to protect you and it's not doing it in a good way, but it's going to get better if you let it get better. And that you need to open up, you need to rely on other people and you need to struggle through it. And it's okay to struggle through it.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I like that. Good words. She would have liked that. So lastly, anything else you wish you could have said or shared today?
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B
I don't, I don't think so. No, I think. I think that was it. Okay.
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A
Nice look. Thank you so much for, for being open and honest and sharing your story.
- [35:31]
B
Thank you. Thank you for having me again. This podcast was a big part of my healing journey and I'm, I'm grateful for it and I hope that my story can help some other people who are going through it as well.
- [35:45]
A
Yeah, it will. It will. Thank you for listening to this week's podcast and thank you to our Patreons who helped make this episode possible. And if you would like to find out more about Patreon and the rewards and benefits, then there will be a link in the episode description. If you enjoy the OCD Stories podcast and would like to support us, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you to NOCD for supporting our work. If you want to find out more about nocd, you can click the link in the episode description. And quick disclaimer, guys, this podcast is not therapy. It is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek treatment from a trained professional, and until we speak, take care.