← The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova
The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova
137. How a Film Director Used OCD as Fuel: The Story Behind the Film PURE O
00:23:12
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- [00:00]
A
After our first screening, we did a Q and A in the audience, and people were just raising their hand and just sort of not even asking questions. They just felt very compelled to start sort of sharing their own personal testimonials and experiences.
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B
Hi, I'm Christina Orlova, host of the OCD Whisperer podcast. As someone who lives with ocd, I understand the struggles firsthand. If you're here, you're not alone. Before we start, grab your free OCD survival kit at www.corresults.com to help you take control. That's K O R results dot com. Now let's dive into today's episode. Welcome to OCD Whisperer Podcast. Today with me, I have a special guest, Dylan Tucker, who's a filmmaker and creative force behind Pure O. It's a powerful and intimate film that explores the often misunderstood world of purely obsessional ocd. So it's not just a movie. It's a raw, honest portrayal of intrusive thoughts, shame, and the silent struggles that so many face. Welcome to the show, Dylan.
- [01:04]
A
Thank you very much for having me.
- [01:06]
B
Absolutely. So I did get a sneak peek and I did kind of read more about you and this whole process, and I absolutely think that just OCD in general continues to be misunderstood. But I wanted to ask you more about, like, when you were making the film, was there a point while you were making it that you realized that this was going to be, you know, a lot more than just a movie, that it was really going to be something that would be therapeutic or healing, you know, whether for you or even for somebody on set?
- [01:40]
A
Yeah, sure. I mean, when I started out to make the film, I wrote it kind of as an exercise. I wrote it during the pandemic, and I decided that I wanted to kind of tell my story, and I got it on the page. And even as I was writing it, I didn't really. I didn't know if people would. Outside of people who have ocd, would really understand it or get it. And to take it back further, I mean, I remember when I was in the. In the group, in my edit group therapy, and when I was really kind of having my onset in my early 30s, I was late onset. And as I was sort of discovering this whole world, we would. A lot of us would. Would be in groups and people would say things like, oh, somebody needs to make a movie about this. And then we sort of laugh it off and say, like, yeah, but nobody would get it, you know, because especially in the groups, you know, it's obviously OCD is Incredibly debilitating. But there's a lot of levity in the groups as well, and a lot of people sharing their stories. And a lot of us are able to laugh at each other and laugh at ourselves because we, you know, at the same time, we're able to see how crazy it is as we're going through it. And so there was a lot of comedy. And, you know, I wanted. I wanted to try to show a film that would show all the facets of it, and people were like, I don't know if people would understand the nuance of it. So I kind of wrote it as a writing exercise to see if I could sort of pull off that magic trick, to sort of subversively, like, educate the audience about all of this and then sort of take them on a ride and be able to enjoy it. So then I showed it to people, and quickly people, you know, some creative partners of mine who don't have OCD kind of read it, and they were like, oh, it's all there on the page. Like, I think we get it. I think it's there. So I think that was the first maybe insight that I had of, like, okay, maybe maybe by mining my own experience, that I could tap into a more universal theme here of people that have been doing this. And I think that it really came through. When the film premiered at south by Southwest after our first screening, we did a Q and A in the audience, and it was such a powerful experience that I wasn't quite expecting. And people were just raising their hand and just sort of not even asking questions. They just felt very compelled to start sort of sharing their own personal testimonials and experiences, whether it's depression or OCD or mental health. Like, it really sort of empowered people to open up unprovoked without sort of a question, just sort of launching into their testimonials with a lot of emotion. And it was an incredibly emotionally impactful experience, sitting there and doing it. And I think when I left the theater after that first time is when I sort of was like, oh, wow. I think this really is going to maybe reach out beyond myself and really sort of impact, you know, others. And hopefully that was the point the whole time, was to, number one, make an entertaining movie, but also to have people within the OCD community be able to see a film that represents them on the screen in some way. And that was a huge impetus for me in making the project because I'm a bit of a cinephile myself and a filmmaker, and I wasn't able to really look at narrative filmmaking and look through. Look through films and really pinpoint films that I thought really depicted OCD in the way that I was experiencing it. And everything was sort of like Monk or As Good as it Gets, sort of like kitschy portrayals of it, using it as like a quirky character or something. And I hadn't really seen anything attempt to tackle it. And I kind of understand why it's kind of a hero is this disease that happens all in your head, and it's like this invisible illness. And so how do you sort of portray that cinematically on the screen and show it? I mean, it's sort of. I guess the way that I did is I just did. Decided not to show it. I mean, there's. There's one way of making this film where you could have sort of jumped inside somebody's head and be showing all of these things. And I decided that I wanted to really ground it in realism and ground it without doing any of that.
- [05:29]
B
And so, yeah, so where is it now? Like, it's. I know has some time has passed. So where do you see the film is now, like, in terms of impact? And what is it that you see for yourself in the future?
- [05:40]
A
Gosh, I've had so many people from all over the world reaching out, you know, sharing how much they've been seen. And, you know, those are. Obviously, that's. That's. That's the biggest thing for me with the film. But, yeah, I mean, it's great. I mean, it's out there and it's spreading more and it's getting distributed and. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's out of my hands now, really, in terms of. And all of that, you know, all you can do as the artist is create the story and do your best to sort of push it into the world and give it the life it can. And continue to do things like this and this podcast and continue to try to just, like, let people know about it as much as possible, and then hopefully it can, especially within the OCD community. I would love it if, you know, if it could find a hold and people can find it. I definitely know that I would have loved to have found a movie like this when I was getting diagnosed and I was still finding out about this because. And for. Not just for the people getting diagnosed, but I think for the loved ones trying to understand it too. I think it's a very difficult illness for. For friends and family to understand what people are going through. So something that's not a Textbook that you need to pick up and read that can maybe feel like homework or a chore. I wanted to sort of there. Put a narrative together that people could watch a movie and, you know, sit together and maybe. I think the film poses a lot of questions for people too, where it can start a dialogue. And so in terms of where it is now, I've had so many people reaching out, sharing that exact experience about how not just. Not just sufferers, but family members saying, like, hey, I watched your film and then I was finally able to sort of talk to my. My brother or my son or these sort of testimonial experiences that people shared with me.
- [07:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think you're absolutely on point right there. There is so much like. You referenced monk. Right. Like 100% there. There's. There's things out there that represented in this quirky way or just like symmetry. Like, for example, I have, you know, before I knew it was ocd, like relationship based ocd. No clue. I had no clue that that was a thing. Yeah, right. So, you know, having more films that, that show you different angles of it. I, I agree. It definitely helps to start to have kind of language and a way to discuss it, because when you're in it, you don't even understand what's happening. So you don't even have words sometimes for the experience. And so.
- [07:57]
A
Absolutely.
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B
Yeah. So, like, if somebody, you know, because I think about. There are a lot of folks I know who also have OCD and are creatives.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And, you know, if somebody's looking at creating something through that process, whether it's a film or some art or writing or something, I guess, you know, especially considering you went through this full journey yourself, like, what advice would you give them how. How could they navigate kind of that emotional weight? Because I imagine there's. There's a lot in there that you go through, you know, start to finish.
- [08:29]
A
Yeah, I've talked about this a lot. A little bit now that the film's come out and I've had. I've had time to kind of process my own experience with it. And I think that one thing that was important for me was I wanted to give it a little distance from the experience that I was going through. And that sort of onset, really sort of cataclysmic thing that happens in your life as one discovers that they're having ocd. And obviously that buildup of all those years where it's sort of building up and you don't know what it is and you're having this whole sort of. I had late onset, so it sort of just attacks your whole identity of who you think you are and what's going on. And so I knew while I was going through it, I suffered a lot from relationship OCD and harm ocd. And, you know, as I got into treatment, I really understood that the content doesn't really matter and that it's all sort of OCD functions in the same way, regardless of what the theme is, and it's going to jump around, but I wanted to give a distance from it. So as I was going through things, I sort of bullet pointed out stuff on an outline and just as I was going through. But I knew that it wasn't something that I wanted to particularly write. As I was going through it, I wanted to wait until I had a little bit of a distance, not so far away that I totally forgot it and sort of had distanced myself, but in that sweet spot where I had sort of kind of moved past things, I could still access it. And so I waited a few years to write the script because I wanted to sort of write it with an eye looking back on it versus writing it in the middle of it. But now that I've gone through it, I actually. I did this talk with OCD game changers. And it made. It made me think about it. And I was realizing at that point that I think that I look at OCD now as kind of my superpower. Honestly, all that stuff that scared me about it. I mean, you know, I can be incredibly perfectionistic and attention to detail and things like that. So, you know, on a film like this where I was wearing so many hats, I was. I was a producer and I directed and had a small part acting and did the music and edited the film. It's a space where I can allow my OCD to find a home in a productive way. When I'm putting my OCD into, like you. Like you just said, creative. I think that there's a long lineage of people with OCD that are highly creative people. And so when I allow my OC to sort of feast on all of that creative material, it's a very positive thing. It actually is a way where I get very perfectionistic and into it, but I leave it feeling very fulfilled and feel very good versus when my OCD is attacking my relationship with my girlfriend or, you know, any other aspect of my life where it's detrimental, I'm able to now recognize when it's happening and sort of just allow my OCD to be there when I Need it. And so in that way, I think that this experience of making the film, all of that stuff going into it, of the catharsis or what is this going to feel like? Or, you know, and for the most part, making the film, honestly, you're just so. With all the hats I was wearing, you're so immersed in it that you kind of don't even have time to think that. It wasn't until I had kind of almost finished editing the movie. I've told the story before, but before we premiered the film, we had to go get a dcp, which is just a film print that they run the movie off of in movie theaters. And I had to go to this theater in Burbank, here in Los Angeles, and. And watch the film and kind of screen it for quality control. And so I showed up not thinking anything of it, and I would. Some other people were supposed to join me for this screening and they didn't show up. So it was just me and the guy, the projectionist sort of said, okay, well, I guess you're here, we're gonna run it. So just sit in the theater. So it was this, you know, massive 100 person seat theater and I sat right in the middle by myself in a movie theater, seeing it for the first time. And he projected up and I watched the entire mo movie by myself. And it just hit me like a ton of the bricks. Like halfway through the movie I was like, oh my God, what have I done? I am just totally bearing myself and this is now going to go into the world and we're going to be at south by Southwest next week. And I had this. It. I truly is. Maybe that sounds naive, but I hadn't really sort of thought about it because I was in the middle of making it and I had this huge breakdown on the way home. I was just like, oh my God, I need to. I can't do this. I need to bury the movie. I can't put it out there. Then I came home and obviously have an amazing, wonderful, supportive partner who sort of talked me off the ledge and reminded me why I was doing this and reminded me how I was trying to, you know, spread the gospel about what this looks like and have other people be able to see themselves in this movie and, you know, convince me to continue to be brave and put it out there. So, yeah, that was when it really hit me. And then. And then after that, it was sort of like, okay. And then my family saw the movie and then at the premiere, and once they saw the movie, I was I was, I've been okay since. I'm like, all right. Once my family saw it and signed off on, on the whole thing. Because obviously it's an intimate betrayal of.
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B
A lot of things. Of course, yeah, it's a family affair. It's not just like you, the person with ocd, it's also, yeah, whatever, whoever's in your system and how they get sucked into the whole process.
- [13:24]
A
Yeah, exactly. Once that personal layer was peeled back, I've been able to now just focus on my, my advocacy. And honestly, it's amazing. I, I, I didn't realize how much this would engage me with my advocacy, because at least me, I don't know other people's experience with ocd, but it's sort of, it's sort of isolated. You know, obviously, you're incredibly isolated in your own experience. I was fortunate enough to have a really smart therapist who realized that I was late on set. And so it would probably be or would be better for me personally to be in group therapy settings so that I could be around some other people who've been managing this for a long time. And I was able to sort of see that it wasn't this death sentence that I had it sort of built up in my head to be that I could see these amazing flourishing people and groups and stuff. So I was very lucky to have that. And I think that, you know, now, now that I'm able to be an advocate and I have something that's able to help me engage with that, it's been a truly wonderful experience. I've met so many amazing humans within this community like yourself, and it's been amazing. So I've been happy that I could be a part of this and get the word out about ocd. I think it's having a moment. I've been seeing just this last couple weeks, Luke Combs. I know the singer struggles from it, and now he's been incredibly vocal and he's been doing a ton of interviews and people like George Ezra over in the uk, and at least just in my news cycles and sources, I've been seeing a lot more about it in a way that when I, I was making this film and it was coming out, I didn't see anything about it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I don't know, I hope that, you know, I hope OCD is having a moment where it's coming a little bit more to the mainstream and people are understanding it and that my film here can be a small part of that and that other filmmakers can come on and join me. And try to, try to use this to tell more stories.
- [15:14]
B
Oh, 1,000%. I mean, I agree. I think it's still, it's still in its. I hope it's having a moment for sure. But I also, just from statistics, it's still so misunderstood. So, I mean, I think it's pretty awesome to have a visual representation, like you said, not just to focus on. Here's what it sounds like in the mind, but this is really like just the whole. How everything organically really does actually look in reality. Because it does look very different from the outside than obviously when you're the one dealing with it on the inside.
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A
Sure. Yeah. And I think, I think that having mainstream media representation is incredibly important. You know, we all watch films for different ways and we have popcorn movies and we have, you know, I think that, you know, escapism and entertainment play an important role in our lives. But there's also a lot of space for films like ours that can hopefully be entertaining but can also maybe leave you with a bit of an understanding about something you didn't understand or post questions or. I think there's a space for both of those things 100%.
- [16:17]
B
And like you said that the kind of incredible to hear that you also have family members and other folks who are able to really engage visually. Because to your point, I think, and what I've seen time and time again, and I often say is like, look, when we're in the throes of something, we're not typically going to sit and read a manual. You want kind of more immediate relief or you want something that you can relate to.
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A
Yeah.
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B
That can give you some insight or clue or something. And so, you know, a lot of times it could be a film, whether it's a YouTube short or a reel or a post or something, because as a human being, we're not, we're not oriented in moments of intense pressure and struggle to sit there and have this high level functioning thought process. So. Right. I think having something that you can actually just watch and watch in a. Where it, it speaks obviously to everybody. Right. Like the whole system, the whole unit understands what's going on here and can translate and infer things and then open up that dialogue and normalize it. I mean that, that's really, I think, such a huge piece of it too because so many of these things are not often discussed and also depends on where you are in the world. Some, some of these things are still extremely stigmatized.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And make it really hard to, to find, you know, anything that can be Relevant or relatable?
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A
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that especially. I think that's why I made a. I made a conscious choice in the film within the narrative structure to also to. To really show this one person who's going through it, but to really spend the time, to develop out sort of other relationships, you know, to spend time with his girlfriend, to spend time with like, his in laws, to spend time in the. In the groups with his therapist, and to sort of see from all these different angles within the system like you just spoke to. Especially with a film that's about an invisible illness. You know, I just think that when there's physical disabilities, it's. It's. It's a. It's a more clear visualization. It's just really hard, I think, with people that suffer through invisible illnesses to find that community, to see that representation. And so I hope this one can be a part of that. Yeah.
- [18:28]
B
Oh, a hundred percent. And like you said, especially when you're dealing with something, if you can't really see it. Right. You. You oftentimes also feel very isolated. And I think it's. That's just a really, really big issue.
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A
Yeah.
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B
In general. Right. I mean, you can feel isolated for different reasons, but then you add OCD on top of it and then if people don't understand and. Right. Oh, just get over it or stop thinking about it. And it's like, if I could do that, I would. Yeah, right.
- [18:52]
A
So I think especially with an illness like OCD that attacks the things that we love most, and I think ocd, it tends to attack our loved ones because, you know, when we're compulsing and we're looking for reassurance and we're kind of getting into this. These things that we do that our brain takes over, I think that it tends to sort of. If you don't have people that are very close to you, friends and family that understand what you're going through, it's very easy to start sort of chipping away and eroding that relationship. And I know that OCD has probably taken a lot from a lot of people in terms of that. So I do think that the educational component with friends and family is equal to the sufferer's understanding because it's very important because we go to the ones that we love when we compulse, because we feel safe and we feel secure and we're seeking that reassurance. And so there needs to be a dialogue between the sufferer and those people of setting boundaries and understanding as much as possible. As much as they can, what they can do to help you by not feeding into this reassurance and not doing those things. So I'm very lucky that I have incredible people around me that have taken the time. But again, I think that seeing, seeing a film is just different than reading a textbook. So I hope that there can be more. Because it wasn't just my film coming out too. There was a. There was a few that came out as well, and right after mine, there was a few kind of OCD films that were coming out like Turtles all the Way down kind of came out right after mine. And that kind of gave a real mainstream thing. And yeah, I just think that, not that it's having a moment, hopefully this moment can take hold and it can be more normalized in a general sense. And that's. That. That's the main goal, I think, for anybody who's out advocating for OCD is to just sort of put it on an even playing field. When you have as much of the world population, what is it you probably know better than? I think 8, 5 to 8% of the world's population suffers from this. You know, it's just a. That's a massive number. It's a lot of people suffering and suffering in silence and suffering without really mainstream representation, so.
- [20:58]
B
Exactly, exactly. And then seeing shows like Monk or like Bing Bing Theory or, you know, or seeing it as a quirky or not even understanding so many other themes or ways that it can manifest. Right, Like.
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A
Yeah, right.
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B
Like pure O. Like that's a lot of it is in your head. Right. Or like, I don't know, like perfect perfectionism based OCD is very different than, you know, if you just, you know, I don't know, just like things a certain way, like those things are not the same thing. Sure, yeah, yeah. I really appreciate your time. So if guests or, you know, listeners want to watch the movie, where can they watch it? And if they want to reach out to you or get in touch with you, how can they.
- [21:39]
A
Sure, where is it? Right. I know it's on Tubi right now. It's streaming on Tubi and then it's also for rent. Wherever anybody rents movies, whether if it's prime or Apple or whatever people's platforms are, it's rent. It's renting for a nominal fee and it's streaming on Tubi. And then it'll probably be in other places as the months roll on in the years. But if they want to get in touch, we have an Instagram page that's sort of the home base for the film. Now, that's pure underscore O underscore movie, I believe. And people can, can reach out there and somebody will find it, I'm sure. And, and we can stay in touch.
- [22:17]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And of course, I'll include all of that in the show notes.
- [22:21]
A
Oh, lovely. Lovely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on.
- [22:24]
B
Oh, my gosh, thank you. I appreciate your time.
- [22:26]
A
Absolutely. And thank you for everything that you're doing with your advocacy.
- [22:29]
B
Oh, thanks.
- [22:30]
A
All right, Christina.
- [22:32]
B
Bye bye. Thanks for listening to the OCD Whisperer podcast. Remember, freedom from OCD is a journey and you're not alone. Visit www.coraresults.com to explore self help masterclasses like Sneaky Rituals with Jenna Overbaugh or ICBT Masterclass with Christina Inabe. Don't forget to grab your OCD CBT journal tracker and planner while you're there. If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, share and leave a five star review to help others find the podcast. Together we can make a difference. Keep going and I'll see you in the next episode.