← The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova
The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova
169. My OCD Was at Its Worst While My Baby Was Fighting for Her Life
00:31:13
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to OCD Whisperer podcast. If you find these conversations useful and helpful, please remember to subscribe and hit that notification bell on so you don't miss an episode. And today with me, I have Sarah Bose, who is a nurse practitioner, an entrepreneur, a mother, and somebody who has been dealing with ocd. Welcome to the show.
- [00:20]
B
Thank you so much. I always appreciate the opportunity to kind of share my flavor of OCD and kind of my experience.
- [00:29]
A
Hi, I'm Kristina Orlova, host of the OCD Whisperer podcast. As someone who lives with ocd, I understand the struggles firsthand. If you're here, you're not alone. Before we start, grab your free OCD survival kit at www.corresults.com to help you take control. That's K O R. Now let's dive into today's episode. Yeah, well, let's dive into that because I really love listening to people's personal stories and experiences with ocd. There's, of course, so many iterations of how OCD shows up. So I would love to hear for you, what was the earliest memory of when you first felt or just knew something wasn't quite right, that there's something going on here for you?
- [01:18]
B
You know, for me, anxiety has kind of been the undercurrent of my entire existence. And if people were to look at me as a kid or interact with me, they would be like, oh, like, she's just really anxious. And I didn't really have the language around, like, oh, maybe this is something more than just generalized anxiety. And so I actually went misdiagnosed for a very long amount of time. I was 28 before I got a diagnosis, but I've definitely always had it. And I think in the last year, especially as I've been working on my memoir, because as you said, I'm an entrepreneur, and I had a really cool entrepreneurial journey that I'm now writing about, but I'm also writing about it in the grander scheme of my life. And I've really been reflecting a lot of, like, where has OCD popped up? And I just didn't know what it was or how to deal with it at the time. And, I mean, I can remember having OCD symptoms as young as, like, 6 or 7 years old. And I would lie awake at night. At the time, me and my middle sibling were only three years apart in age. So even though we had our own rooms, we often shared a room, and I would stand in the window of one of our rooms and watch for planes to go by, and I would Have a lot of anxiety of, like, what if a plane crashed into our house? And, like, how would I get everyone out? And what would that look like? And it was a lot. And obviously I didn't sleep very much, so I felt like that was kind of my first, like, undercurrents of ocd. But I think predominantly what I dealt with in adulthood and still today is a lot of magical thinking. So much magical thinking.
- [02:48]
A
Yeah. So that's also a big topic for folks. And thanks for sharing that, because even when you're sharing that and kind of the thought process you had. Right. OCD is known as a doubting disease. We're doubting fundamentally everything about ourselves, about what we're seeing, experiencing all the things that could be, that might be, and really get so absorbed into that world, if you will, that we kind of get lost for a minute there. So with adulthood, and you said magical thinking, ocd, can you tell us a little bit about, for you, like, what does that mean? How does that show up? What does it sound like?
- [03:23]
B
I think the clearest example is actually the example that led to me one day getting a diagnosis. And for me, what happened was when I was pregnant, my OCD ramped way up. And obviously I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was dealing with. And so I didn't have the right tools. And so I kind of got stuck in this habit of thinking, if I do X, Y or Z, then something's going to happen to my unborn daughter. So if I announce I'm pregnant, something bad's going to happen. If I have a baby shower, something bad's going to happen. And I ended up having to go to a work conference when I was 33, 34 weeks pregnant. And that's relevant because obviously there was no way that I could deny I was pregnant. And I decided, okay, I have to do an announcement if I'm going to go see thousands of people and everybody's going to know that I am definitely pregnant asking me about it. And so I did the thing and that went okay. But while I was there, another big fear of mine was if I have a baby shower, something bad will happen. So I did the announcement thing, and then my lovely work wife and co worker threw me a surprise baby shower at this work conference. We were all coming together, which is so sweet. And then I came home three or four days later, and that was actually when we found out that my daughter Meadow was going to be born before heart defects. And that was a total upheaval. Of what I thought was a normal, healthy pregnancy with a normal, healthy baby. And for me, it kind of cracked my OCD wide open, because in my logical nurse practitioner brain, which I do have up there, I was like, you know, the heart was formed at week six or five or whatever. Like, it's super early in pregnancy. Like, hardest first, essentially. And just because I had a baby shower announced doesn't mean I caused this heart defect. But I could not convince myself of that for, I mean, literal hours after we got my daughter's diagnosis, which is a very critical congenital heart defect or set of defects. I must have apologized to my husband no less than 500 times. Like, the whole ride home from the OB, I was like, I'm so sorry. This is my fault. I'm so sorry. I mean, I obviously was like, compulsing doing this.
- [05:38]
A
Of course. Yeah.
- [05:40]
B
But as I tell people all the time, it's really hard to manage your brain when you don't know what you're working with. And that's, for me, why I talk so much about OCD and why I'm such a proponent of people getting a diagnosis or getting an assessment. And is until you know what the thing is, you can't really face it head on.
- [05:59]
A
So would you say that because, you know, in that moment, like you said, that's when you didn't know, and then that's. That was one of those experiences that then you learned what it was. And so learning what it was, how did that help you? Right. Because again, when people listen to this, I think that it's one of the fears I very commonly hear for people with OCD is, well, what if one of the things I'm nervous about or scared about or doubt actually happens? And sometimes, as we know in life, things do happen. Right. And in your case, it did. It lined up. Right. Literally to the extreme. I mean, that's a very scary, you know, experience to have with, you know, I mean, you're having a baby and to learn that. Right? So, you know, I mean, talk about 10 out of 10. It's like a hundred thousand.
- [06:44]
B
A thousand.
- [06:45]
A
I mean, yeah. I don't even know what number to qualify on that, but yeah. So what did you learn? Or how were you able to. I think most people. That's kind of what people want to know, right? Is, well, how. How did. How did you unhook from that? Or how did you learn to, I guess, discern or step away. Right. And not continue to carry that burden, if you will, or guilt or that ongoing and now probably New fears of, oh, my gosh, more things like this will happen.
- [07:14]
B
Yeah. I had a very fortunate experience that during my pregnancy, I hired a business coach who's also a licensed therapist. Now, she was across state lines, like, she couldn't be my therapist, but she could help me work on my business, which I owned at the time. And I said something to her one day, and I have no idea what it was now, but she said, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop. She said, I had no idea that you had ocd. And so how are you managing that right now? But I didn't have a diagnosis of ocd, and I never considered that that might be something that I had before. And so when I have this kind of freak experience of what my OCD therapist says, today is your ocd, like, one in a million tries will get it right. So my one in a million try got it right about my daughter being sick. And once we kind of got through survival mode, because ultimately she ended up having to have two heart surgeries by the time she was five months old. And so for us, it was like, we have to survive this patch of time, and hopefully she survives this patch of time with these really high risk surgeries. And then I've got to see, like, where I'm at on the other side of it. And so when we got out of the hospital after those five months of kind of being in and out, I. I truly, like, I did not feel like myself. Like, I felt like I was on the brink of, like, a psychosis. And, you know, people talk about after having a baby, like, you'll check their breathing and those sorts of things. And mine was just, like, truly, truly the extreme. And so it just kind of kept ringing in the back of my brain. I was like, maybe this is that OCD thing. Maybe this is that OCD thing. Because she was like, so. She was like, so clear as they, like, oh, you must have this, or, you know that you have this. And so we had only been out of the hospital a week with my daughter when I went to go get assessed for ocd, because I was at a point where I was like, I can't sleep. And I'm, like, so neurotic about this baby, because ultimately, when we got out of the hospital the second time, they're kind of like, she's good now for a patch of time. And so we, like, before we had made our home a hospital environment, we were watching her really closely and talking to her cardiologist every day. And then she's having these big surgeries and so then to go home and then be like, you don't need a monitor anymore and you can relax a little bit, that was really hard to do. Like, that felt impossible to me. And so I went and got assessed for ocd. And if I remember correctly, like, the scale they did was out of 40, and I scored a 37. And I was like, okay, I have extreme or severe ocd.
- [09:52]
A
Yeah.
- [09:52]
B
Now what in the world do I do about this thing? Like, how do I eat again? How do I sleep again? How do I stop doing compulsions the bulk of my day? How. How do I show up as a present mom and a present employee and all these different parts of my life that I want to show up for? And so I ended up deciding to do an intensive outpatient program just because the severity of my symptoms was so bad. And for me, that looked like doing a lot of exposure therapy.
- [10:18]
A
So much exposure therapy, and I bet a lot of response prevention.
- [10:23]
B
Oh, yes, the whole shebang.
- [10:26]
A
Well, that's pretty amazing that in your case, you're able to find an intensive program. And, yeah, usually out of the. It's called the Yale Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale, but on a Y box. Yeah. If you start to score 24 and above, that usually indicates severe, extremely severe. And usually we're talking about then higher levels of treatment. So when you went there and you did that more intensive treatment, I guess. Yeah. Like, clear. Clearly, some of the outcomes were that you're able to kind of come back and recalibrate a little bit. What would you say was the thing that really helped you, though, through that process? Is it the education and then kind of creating, like, a system, a plan for how you're going to address things one at a time? Like. Like, if thinking back, what were some of those key things that were takeaways for you? So that if people are listening and they're. Cause I, you know, I do have a lot of audiences that oftentimes will make comments on the Internet. Things like, you know, I'm. I'm really stuck. I've been stuck for five hours. I'm stuck for days. I'm panicky, et cetera. So I think about, you know, those folks, and if they're listening to this, right. Like, what could they do? Or what would be the things to look for here? Here's kind of the nuggets that you want to, you know, take from doing exposure response prevention in an intensive setting.
- [11:43]
B
Number one, the education, by far as. I mean, my OCD behaviors were so ingrained in my Relationship with my husband. And that was a big dynamic for us because I did so much reassurance seeking. But at the point that I realized that I had ocd, we had been together already almost a decade. And so that was just already baked into our everyday, our conversation, our text. And so figuring out how do I not reassurance seek, but also if I try to do it anyways, how can he respond to me in a way where we're not going to just activate this ocd, OCD cycle. So the education was huge. Bringing my husband into it was huge as well. I think beyond the education is definitely kind of like the toolbox of skills that I build up of different ways that I can manage thoughts. So, for example, you know, it's kind of funny thinking back now, but my OCD therapist, she initially presented like, self compassion and compassion just as a general skill skill. And I was like, you know, thanks, but no thanks. Like, that's not really my thing. But it's definitely one of my favorite skills today is, you know, I'll just like, say to myself, like, I have these like mantras where I'm like, you know, I'm a really good person going through a really hard day, or when my daughter's annual cardiology appointments pop up and where. And those appointments are always like, are we gonna have surgery this year or not? So they're like high stakes appointments for us and our family.
- [13:14]
A
Yeah.
- [13:14]
B
Like, I want to compulse and I want to ruminate. And so I start pulling tools out of the toolbox of, you know, one of my favorites, because it's easy, I think when you have something like ocd, you want to go worst case scenario, you want to catastrophize, like, obviously a surgery time, et cetera. And one of the things that she really pushes me to do is do worst case scenario, do most likely scenario, and do best case scenario and look at the whole spectrum. And that really diffuses it for me, I think. Another thing that's been, I mean, maybe fun's not the right word, but between me and my husband, we do try to poke fun at it and make fun of it. And so sometimes we'll be sitting on the couch and I'll say something that's kind of like sneakily asking for reassurance. And he'll be like, am I talking to you or am I talking to your ocd? But I do.
- [14:05]
A
Like, he really knows in that moment to even catch it, because I was just thinking, you know, we're so good at being sneaky. And till somebody knows.
- [14:14]
B
Yeah.
- [14:15]
A
And then when they know as well, they can be like, hold on, this sounds like that thing you do.
- [14:18]
B
Like, like, what is that? And we kind of make OCD a third party. So as instead of like, OCD being my identity or OCD just being me, like, OCD is a part of me. And it's kind of like, I sometimes think it was like an external monster, because then we can poke fun at it in a different way. But by going through IOP and doing exposure after exposure after exposure, exposure after exposure, it really kind of rewired the amount of urgency in my brain. I think that's what I talk about the most when I think about doing OCD therapy, doing ERP therapy is I used to operate my life with like, everything was life or death, urgency, emergency all the time. And now I have so much more access to neutrality and like, scary things will happen. And I, like, I just have a lot more level of peace in my body at a baseline, so I don't get as riled up. So losing the urgency for me, or at least as much as I can, is a huge shift. But that was also really scary, intimidating, because when I started erp, I was like, I have so much ocd. Like, who is. Who is left underneath there? Like, if we get rid of the ocd, like, who am I? Yes. And that was kind of an uncovering process for myself. But I really like me under my ocd.
- [15:38]
A
I love that. That's actually. Yeah, let's dig into that for a minute. Because that's also another thing I really hear quite commonly is I've been doing this for so long, it's become part of the way I identify with who I am. And like you said, if I now start to give that up or I don't have that piece or I don't have to do these things. I don't know what to do. I don't know who I am. I suddenly maybe more time available. What's this?
- [16:06]
B
Right.
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A
Like, I've had people ask me, what do I do now? I'm like, well, what do you want to do? Like, what are some things you learned?
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B
Yeah. What brings you joy? Yeah.
- [16:13]
A
Let's get back into some of those things and start to re remember and re engage with that because it's so all consuming, you know, when. When we're in it. So what was that like in terms of especially just kind of the beginnings of that. Right. When you're kind of in that nervous place of things are starting to adjust. Because it sounds like you know, you've given a lot of time to really facing things in a kind of systematic way, learning from it, building up that tolerance, like you said, bringing down the volume and the urgency. And now you're uncovering more you like the actual you. So what was that transition like?
- [16:52]
B
I think for me, I really had to lean into my values, and I was definitely a big part of my toolbox of when we started. You know, my therapists were like, what are the things in your life that you value? And especially, what are things in life that you value that your OCD holds you back from? Because as we uncover this OCD and we work to manage it better, like, you're going to have more access to those things and kind of like using that as a light at the end of a tunnel. So, for example, for me, I love, and I do mean love to travel, but I have a lot of OCD stuff about planes that I really don't like to be on a plane, and I still today don't like to be on a plane, and I still have to, like, do my skills every time I'm on a plane. But a couple of months ago, I was going to New York City, which was a big OCD thing for me, because I was like, oh, my God, like, I'm going to the city and, you know, for transportation and everything just feel. Felt bigger. But I was still going anyways, which was fun for me. And I was just sitting on the plane thinking, like, how many flights have I been on in the last couple of years? And so I just started counting because there was nothing else to do. And I've been on, like, 47 flights in the last three years. And I was like, wow, like, what access to travel and like, what increased flexibility I have because I better manage my ocd, because there are plenty of times where I would really want to take the trip or do the thing, but I didn't have enough flexibility to be able to do it because I'll be so consumed by compulsions or so consumed by intrusive thoughts or whatever, the thing that I end up not going to.
- [18:24]
A
Right, yeah, I know. That's actually literally one of the biggest concerns too. Right. It's that, oh, my gosh, if I do go first, it's the hurdle of just getting there.
- [18:32]
B
Yes.
- [18:32]
A
If you got OCD around, that's a big part. Oh, yeah, right. And then it's like, okay, once I get there and now, you know what. What if that environment has things or the people or. Or maybe I already know or think Or I'm going to predict that it will and how am I. And getting back is going to be tough. And so it's so much this kind of predictive thinking that also doesn't let you actually learn.
- [18:55]
B
Then you get stuck.
- [18:56]
A
Yep, yep. And so, okay, going back to when you're talking about your journey and this whole process and kind of rediscovering and connecting more to the things that actually you value, you want more of things OCD holds you back from and, and now with your daughter and kind of present day. So where would you say you are now? Because sometimes there's been this talk I've been hearing recently, people sometimes would say, and I used to say this myself, but I think I definitely have to say that I've changed my opinion on this, which is, you know, CD is a lifelong chronic condition. It's like, yeah, but also we clearly can get better, like much better. And actually instead of looking at it like that, we can look at it as well. It's also something where functionally you get much more of your life back. And like, yeah, you might still have pockets here and there, but, but all in all, you're living a much more happier, full life. What are your thoughts on that?
- [19:50]
B
You know, it's hard. It's kind of a unique day that you asked me because I had what they, you know, they call subclinical OCD for a while. So I've had the diagnosis in the past, but I'm kind of like in remission at this point in time. And I actually just did the OCD scale earlier today and now I'm back up in the mouth. And so for me it's very much this journey of recovering from ocd. I'm not fully recovered and so I always got to be a little bit on guard. And even when I did the scale today, like, I'm like pretty mild. But it was just good accountability for me to be like, hey, before this like gets out of control, maybe I need to be a little bit more proactive with my exposures. Because a lot of times, you know, I'll do like the lean in approach. Like as something pops up throughout the day, I'll lean in and be like, hey, I'm going to do kind of like a mini experience exposure. But I'd really dialed back from doing structured exposures with my OCD therapist. But the way that I hold myself most accountable is through having monthly check ins with my OCD therapist. So even when I feel stellar and great, I'll still have the appointment and do the thing and just make sure, like, my brain's working the way I want it to be working and my days are looking the way I want them to be looking and I'm feeling good. And sometimes it's nicer to show up to therapy and be like, I've had a great OCD month. I went to New York City this month, I did this big school, scary thing, etc. And then some days are like today where I'm like, you know, my daughter's annual cardiology appointment is coming up and I'm a really great person going through a really hard time right now because it brings up a lot of anxiety. And so I need to face this a little bit more head on. So I definitely, like, you can kind of ebb and flow out of it. But I will say, since doing my intensive program, I've never even been close to the severe range ever again. Like, by far, like, I'm always like mild, low, mild. And for me that's really incredible and really cool because I lived with just a lot of OCD for a really long time. Of course.
- [21:49]
A
I mean, I have to say, I, I agree. I mean, I, I think your story is kind of what I think we talk about recovery, if you will. I think people sometimes still have this notion that it's like this linear kind of thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't go from, you know, A to Z in one line. Like you said, it kind of ebbs and it flows, right? It's like waves. Sometimes it's really small, tiny or very calm water, or sometimes it can be big waves. But I think to your point, part of recovery, like you said, is you could be subclinical for a while and then, you know, like, oh, well, this makes sense. Contextually, it's an annual appointment. So, yeah, something like that. I think naturally for any person would bring up some anxiety and discomfort. And then if you have ocd, of course your brain is going to want to latch on to more, you know, oh my gosh, this, what of that? And again, start to do that predictive, catastrophic kind of.
- [22:45]
B
But always latches on to what you love the most. And me, like, my daughter is who I love the most. So of course it wants to be like, hello, I'm back. And I'm like, get out of here.
- [22:54]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so, you know, I think understanding that, like, hey, contextually that's relevant information, right? Like, this is why this is up a little bit. But also it sounds like you've done this long enough. That you also have some trust at this point in yourself. Right. And in like the experiences you've had because you have enough lived experience of, okay, I've done this, I faced this thing, I've overcome it, I've made everything chill out a bit more. I've turned down the volume on the urgency emergency like you said. Right. So now it's like, okay, I see this for what it is. I feel it this. And I have some tools. And then part of it too is you're still gonna have to go through the experience and you're still gonna probably feel, you know, some of that a little bit until afterwards. I mean, I, I don't think there's any honestly OCD tool or com or, I mean compassion or meditation or whatever. There's no, no tool that's going to completely have you not have some degree of still nerves because that's just like a normal human reaction. But sounds like you have a lot more amazing skills that at least are helping you get through this time. That's just naturally more, you know, anxiety producing. So.
- [24:07]
B
And incredible support because I've worked. So the OCD therapist I work with today is actually the predominant person who did my IOP program. And so it's really cool when you have the longevity of working with a provider too, for them to be able to pick up on things. Because she was like, oh, when you get down about Meadow's appointment, then your OCD spikes. She's like, we've lived this cycle together, so we already know how we can be proactive about it together too.
- [24:33]
A
That's actually a really great point. Yeah, I think I love that you made that connection because that is valuable if you have somebody you've been with for a while that is trusting them. Yeah, it helps, right? Because it's true. They've witnessed and held you through all the different cycles of things, so they can remind you and go, hey, hold on a second. We've done this. This is typically what happen.
- [24:52]
B
Yeah, she did my worst exposure with me ever. So I'm like, okay, like, I see you see me.
- [24:58]
A
That's awesome. It's so great when you find a good, like a good connection with your provider and then. And then just keep it. And I also love that for you, you found your recovery process involves, hey, once a month I keep that appointment and sometimes it's great to come and say, hey, I don't have anything to report, but kind of success. And the month has gone well with ocd, which is awesome. And I think equally important to not Lose track of.
- [25:22]
B
It's so easy, especially when you have something that can be so sneaky and insidious as ocd to be like, oh, like, I'm doing good. But then, like, when I go to the monthly appointment, I'm like, am I actually doing good? You know, she starts asking questions and probing, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'm not subclinical anymore.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, I. I think OCD brain. It's. It's just interesting how. How much pervasive doubt takes over and. And all the emotions and all the physical palpitations and things that start to, you know, get turned on and. And I'll even say the visuals, because I. I know everybody. With ocd, you get a lot of visual.
- [26:03]
B
It's intense.
- [26:04]
A
Yeah. You can start to see stuff in your head. Your imagination starts to turn on. You're like, oh, my God. And, you know, you're not just thinking it. You're literally seeing it in your mind's eye, and it's really intense.
- [26:16]
B
Yeah.
- [26:18]
A
Well, at this point, I want to say, really, from everything you've said so far, it sounds like you've gone through quite a journey with your daughter, and you have an amazing support and your husband. Can I ask one last question before we end? You know, you mentioned having the support with him and that you both learned about reassurance. And I know reassurance is a big conversation. I mean, reassurance. We all need some of it some of the time. Right. It's kind of like. I think it's an interesting dialogue. Right. Because it can't just be totally zero. That's also. Doesn't. That's not quite right.
- [26:49]
B
Does it help?
- [26:51]
A
No, it doesn't. So how did you navigate that together in terms of, you know, like. Because sometimes we all, as humans, we ask, and we do need some. It's just people without OCD can really take it in when they hear it. And usually maybe they might ask one more time, but then they really. They take it, they absorb, and they move on. People with ocd, we tend to dismiss it, deny it, reject it, question it. So how did you guys find that balance where you can get some when you really need it? And where might he, I guess, draw the line or a boundary?
- [27:20]
B
Yeah. You know, it's so easy with OCD because you want the black and white. Right. You're like, how can I make this, like, so binary so we don't fall into it? But as I talked about a lot in the beginning with my OCD therapist, like, reassurance at its core is a part of a normal, healthy relationship. And it's just my OCD cycle that kind of propels it into something else. And so a strategy that we used a lot in the beginning was we called it a reassurance freebie. And so, like, once a day, I could ask for reassurance twice in a row. And then eventually they were like, okay, we're going to do a reassurance freebie once a week. And now we don't really have to use that anymore because he can tell when I'm asking for reassurance. But I think it's just the intensity in which I'm asking most of the time. Like, you know, if I ask once and I accept the answer and I move on, then that's a part of a normal, healthy relationship. But if I'm asking five, six times, that's a totally different dynamic. And a lot of times, too, I find that I reassure and seek about things that he can't give me the answer to anyways. And so that's kind of a good clue to me.
- [28:32]
A
So.
- [28:33]
B
So, like, I'll look at him and be like, you know, how do you think Meadow's heart's doing today? And he'll be like, ocd. So the answer is, I don't know. Right.
- [28:45]
A
Like, okay, I have x ray vision eyes.
- [28:46]
B
Like, he's like, there's no right. Yeah, but that's a. That's a really easy clue in for me. Like, oh, this is. What I was actually asking for was something in the OCD realm, not in the normal, healthy relationship realm.
- [29:00]
A
Well, I think that's also a really beautiful example of ways it could be, like, in stealth sneak mode and kind of put the other person into a position where, you know, you're like, well, I don't you know how to answer that because. And I think this speaks to, you know, that building and recognizing the discernment skill of seeing. When is it I truly am asking something that really is real, true uncertainty, and you really just have no way of knowing this data. And we all have to embrace that moment. We just don't know. Like, you have to wait. Right. Versus when our brain, maybe we do have information, but we're dismissing it or our brain taking it and twisting it into something else and, you know, going deep into the whole doubt process where we just get lost. Yeah. And we completely get disconnected from, you know, what actually is and what matters.
- [29:54]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [29:55]
A
Awesome. Well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show. I know. Actually, I have more questions in my head, but we gotta end for the day. So if folks would like to find you, how can they find you?
- [30:08]
B
I think the easiest place is Instagram. I actually talk a lot about OCD on Instagram, so that's at Sarah Michelle Bowes. And the other place is because I, you know, I'm writing a memoir right now. I'm actually about to release a children's book about heart defects, which is so cool and so fun. Is at my website, which is sarah michelleboes.com amazing.
- [30:28]
A
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
- [30:33]
A
Thanks for listening to the OCD Whisperer podcast. Remember, freedom from OCD is a journey and you're not alone. Visit www.coraresults.com to explore self help masterclasses like Sneaky Rituals with Jenna Overbought or ICBT Masterclass with Christina Inabe. Don't forget to grab your OCD CBT journal tracker and planner while you're there. If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, share and leave a five star review to help others find the podcast. Together we can make a difference. Keep going and I'll see you in the next episode.