The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova

Episode 171: OCD Recovery – 2 Skills to Stop Fighting Your Mind (OCD Defusion & Acceptance Tools)

Date: February 13, 2026
Guest: Dr. Marisa Maza
Host: Kristina Orlova

Episode Overview

This episode, the second in a four-part series, dives into two core psychological skills vital for OCD recovery: defusion and acceptance. Host Kristina Orlova and guest Dr. Marisa Maza break down what these techniques actually mean, how to use them, and why so many people struggle with accepting their own thoughts and feelings. Through clinical expertise and lived experience, they offer practical strategies, candid insights, and compassionate encouragement to listeners navigating the challenges of OCD.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Defusion? (02:27 - 09:48)

• Psychological Flexibility Recap
  Dr. Maza opens with a recap from the previous episode, explaining psychological flexibility as “being present, aware of the things that are important to you, committed to those things, recognizing you are not your thoughts... [and] having an openness to your experiences.” (02:33)
• Defusion Defined
  Defusion is about learning to “unhook” from intrusive thoughts—viewing them as mental events, not as truths or instructions:
  • “The mind is like a thought machine... Unfortunately, there’s no way to stop that machine. However, there is a way to learn how to work with it, and that’s what defusion does.” – Dr. Marisa Maza (03:39)
  • Thoughts are automatic; you can’t prevent their occurrence, only how you respond.
• Techniques for Defusion
  • Add a mental prefix: “I am having the thought that...” or “I am noticing my OCD telling me that...”
  • Assign your OCD a character name (e.g., “Betty”) to externalize and distance yourself from obsessions.
  • Imagine the thought delivered by a cartoon voice, or picture it displayed on a billboard.
  • “And now I have a choice. Do I want to buy and believe that salesperson?” – Dr. Marisa Maza (09:24)
• Key Insight:
  Attempting to use defusion as a tool for making thoughts go away is itself a form of avoidance, which can reinforce OCD cycles. Instead, defusion helps practice being present with whatever thoughts arise.

2. The Challenge of Acceptance (15:13 - 18:17)

• Acceptance Doesn’t Mean Approval or Liking
  Acceptance is not the same as agreeing with or liking distressing thoughts:
  • “Acceptance doesn’t mean you have to, like, just means you got to be willing to have it.” – Dr. Marisa Maza (16:53)
• Paradox of Resistance
  • “There’s a saying in ACT: If you don’t want it, you got it.” (16:54)
  • The more you resist or try to suppress disturbing thoughts or emotions, the stronger they become.
• Dr. Kristin Neff’s Teaching
  Suffering stems from “not accepting yourself as you are or not accepting your life as it is.” – Dr. Marisa Maza citing Dr. Neff (17:08)
• Host’s Example
  Kristina shares her experience of struggling against life circumstances, and how accepting “this is what it is right now” brought relief and self-compassion (17:23-18:17).

3. Defusion, Acceptance, and Values (12:54 – 15:51)

• Dr. Maza emphasizes finding the values underneath intrusive thoughts—what OCD is reminding the person about what matters.
  • Example: A mother afraid of harming her child values safety and love.
  • Example: A client who compulsively cleans is reminded of the desire to act as a responsible, caring person.
• “Our thoughts go from being our enemies to like, ‘that’s actually a beautiful reminder.’” – Dr. Marisa Maza (15:04)
• Kristina highlights how this shift lets people act according to their values—even when obsessions are present.

4. Emotional Experience: Self-Compassion & Mindfulness (18:17 – 24:25)

• Self-Compassion for Difficult Emotions
  • “Present moment and mindfulness says: okay, I see you anxiety, or I’m feeling anxious. And what actually self-compassion does is then says, it’s okay that I feel anxious.” – Dr. Marisa Maza (19:07)
  • Both speakers share personal methods for responding to discomfort—ranging from self-soothing phrases (“relax into this”) to visualizations (“be here, be now”).
  • “No one has died from an emotion... It may feel like you’re going to, but no one’s actually ever died from an emotion.” – Dr. Marisa Maza (21:09)
• Coaching Yourself Through Discomfort
  • Internal, gentle coaching—like labeling feelings or using simple mantras—is validated as effective, especially for those not taught emotional skills growing up (22:11).

5. Practical Strategies for Starting Out (24:29 – 27:56)

Defusion

• Start by noticing and labeling the thought:
  • “I’m noticing the thought that...”
• Imagine the thought passing by (on a cloud, billboard, etc.).
• Purpose is not to get rid of the thought, but to notice and redirect attention (to the present, values, exposures, etc.).

Acceptance

• Label the emotion: “I am feeling ___.”
• Practice self-compassion by saying, “It’s okay that I feel this way. Everyone feels ___ sometimes.”
• Use a compassion script (borrowed from Dr. Kristin Neff and Dr. Chris Germer):
  • “It’s okay that I feel anxious. Everyone feels anxious sometimes. May I be kind to myself.”
• Place a hand on your heart, make a kind wish for yourself, and link acceptance to your core values.

Warning: This kind of work can stir up old wounds. If it feels overwhelming, seek support and take it slowly.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:14] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “Unfortunately, there is no way to not have the intrusive thoughts... There’s no way to stop that machine. However, there is a way to learn how to work with it—and that’s what diffusion does.”
• [07:52] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “The first step is that noticing of, like, ‘okay, here it is. Like, this is that moment, this is the OCD.’”
• [14:54] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “How we relate to our thoughts, because then our thoughts go from being our enemies to—like, that’s actually a beautiful reminder.”
• [16:53] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “Acceptance doesn’t mean you have to [like your thoughts]—just means you got to be willing to have it.”
• [21:12] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “No one has died from an emotion. It may feel like you’re going to... But no one’s actually ever died from an emotion.”
• [27:56] Dr. Marisa Maza:
  “Just know, the work you’re doing is what will help get you to that big, beautiful life that you deserve and want... Your mind was made for you, not by you.”—(crediting Dr. Gilbert)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:31: Episode intro & series context
• 02:27: What is psychological flexibility? Setting up defusion
• 03:14–05:38: How thoughts arise and why we can’t control them
• 07:52–09:48: Tools for defusion: labeling, characterizing, visualizing thoughts
• 12:54–15:13: Finding the value behind OCD obsessions
• 15:13–18:17: Acceptance, resistance, and self-compassion
• 18:17–21:12: Mindfulness, emotional self-acceptance, stating reality
• 22:11–24:25: Coaching yourself, practical self-talk & compassion scripts
• 24:29–27:56: Quick-start tips for practicing defusion and acceptance
• 27:56–29:42: Encouragement, normalization, closing metaphors

Final Thoughts & Encouragement

The episode closes with Dr. Maza’s uplifting reminder:

"Your mind was made for you, not by you. So it’s not your fault you’re having these experiences, but it is your responsibility to figure out how to work with it, how you want to live with it. We’re all deserving of love and living a big beautiful life. It's your birthright... Know that you’re not alone in your struggles as well as in your growth." (27:56–29:42)

Kristina echoes gratitude and emphasizes the importance of self-kindness and community along the healing journey.

For more on Dr. Marisa Maza:
Website: choicetherapy.net

Free OCD Resources and Info:
Visit corresults.com for Kristina Orlova’s OCD Survival Kit, self-help Master Classes, and tools such as the OCD CBT journal tracker and planner.