← The OCD Whisperer Podcast with Kristina Orlova
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- [00:00]
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- [00:29]
Christina Orlova
Welcome to OCD Whisperer Podcast, a podcast where we talk about anxiety, OCD and mental health. If you enjoy this show, please remember to subscribe and hit that notification bell on today. With me, I have Liam and Alicia from OCD Confessionals. Welcome to the show.
- [00:43]
Alicia
Thanks for having us.
- [00:45]
Liam
This is so fun. Thanks for having us, Christina.
- [00:48]
Christina Orlova
Absolutely. So I would love to hear just a little bit and for the audience to hear a little bit about you two and, yeah, a little bit of your story, kind of. How. How did this all come about? Anything you want to share with us?
- [01:02]
Liam
Yeah. So I'm actually in Boston and Alicia is in California. And as of about a year ago, we had never met each other. And what happened is we both ended up in South America together for work. Alicia was there as an influencer, and I was there working for this company that we do digital marketing for. And Alicia and I were at a dinner. We were both sitting there with our. Our spouses and just talking about life and being parents. And then it veered into the mental health conversation. Alicia and I are very fast. Yeah. Classic oversharer people.
- [01:46]
Christina Orlova
Yes.
- [01:47]
Alicia
You're like, how's your mind? So you also knock seven times before you get in the car. Cool.
- [01:56]
Liam
Exactly. Alicia was telling me about some of her mental health struggles. And internally, I was thinking to myself, I think this woman has OCD and doesn't know it. And I eventually just was like, you know what? I'm just going to say that to her. Like, you might want to consider that this is a thing. And that led to this whole journey for both Alicia and me where she was able to learn, in fact, that she does have ocd. And then we became close friends and kind of, you know, sharing each other's, you know, journeys with it. And then flash forward a few months. I was at a conference with the iocdf. It was actually a dinner, and I was talking to this one woman across from me about her experience with ocd. We're sharing it. We're both laughing really hard about some of the crazy stuff we've done. And I just had this moment of, like, this would actually make a great podcast. People just sharing their crazy things, their compulsions and obsessions. And I texted Alicia the next day and was like, do you want to do a podcast with me where we just, like, confess our crazy and laugh about it and have other people share their stories? And, Alicia, what was your reaction?
- [03:14]
Alicia
Well, at first, I thought, do I want to share the weird? I do. And then, you know, I know the power and vulnerability. And I was in a place in my life where it felt. It felt right. The timing was perfect, and I was like, absolutely, let's do this. Because he and I had always had this really sweet banter with how we joke and our dark humor really connected on where we were able to find the humor in the stuff that we did. And I thought, you know, we should open that up. He's right. This would be a great. A great way to create a platform where people can share their stories and we can make fun of ourselves. And so that's what we did. And it's been so fun and so healing in so many ways. And I'm grateful for that night where he saw my ocd. Clearly, it was very evident that. And no one else saw my entire life. No one else pointed out that maybe you have ocd. So I'm grateful for that. Liam.
- [04:13]
Christina Orlova
That's funny. Hi, I'm Christina Orlova, host of the OCD Whisperer podcast. As someone who lives with ocd, I understand the struggles firsthand. If you're here, you're not alone. Before we start, grab your free OCD survival kit at www.corresults.com to help you take control. That's K O R results dot com. Now let's dive into today's episode. Well, that says a lot too, though, because to be honest, a lot of. A lot of times when we talk about this, it's always so serious. Yeah, But I think, you know, yes, really serious. There is a serious side. But to your point, I really enjoy your podcast because of that, because you do bring some lightness, because sometimes we have those moments, right, where you reflect back on yourself. You're like, what the heck? Yeah. You know, and it's just a little, kind of wild.
- [05:11]
Alicia
Well, it's only serious when you are living in isolation. Right. It's very serious because you think that you're the only one that's doing all this stuff, and you're the weirdo and you're the one hiding, and you're, you know, you're masking this. And then when you meet someone who's Also doing it then, and laughing together. You're like, oh, wow, this is actually not as weird as I thought. This is. There's a name for how I'm feeling. There's a name for this stuff. And you instantly have this bond that. Yeah, you can. You can find the humor easily in that.
- [05:41]
Liam
So the number of times we've been in tears on the podcast when a guest shares something that they've done, or Alicia or I is sharing something that we've done, I mean, there was the one guy, Zach, Alicia, who shared this story where he developed schizophrenia. Ocd. He thought he might have schizophrenia, and he believed that he had. That he had imagined Charles Darwin walking through a library, studying. And he was like, I mean, I
- [06:13]
Alicia
started following her, though. I've had the same experience, you know, and it wasn't until he shared where you almost go, oh, my gosh, I've done that too, with things. The magical thinking, all of it comes back and you're like, oh, wow, this all makes so much sense. That was a really. That was a really funny one.
- [06:33]
Christina Orlova
Yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about. I had him on the show, too. Exactly. I mean, you're right. Like, there. There are moments where when you. In hindsight, it's. It's a little ludicrous, but also, I think it does. It touches on that deeper part when you realize, gosh, me too, though, or, oh, wow, I did that thing. I didn't realize that's what it was. Well, with that, I want to. I want to ask you both a question for both of you to answer from your perspective, which is, you know, now that you guys are. And you're on show and you're open about it, like, how. How does this show up in your families and with your loved ones? Because I think we all know this doesn't just impact, like, me, the individual. This impacts my partner, my family, and people, you know, around me. So, yeah, if I can hear a little bit about how that's been for you, for each of you.
- [07:19]
Liam
Alicia.
- [07:20]
Alicia
Well, for. Yeah, sure. For us, you know, it was always this mysterious underlining. Like, I struggled with severe anxiety and depression in my marriage and with zero answers, you know, seeking help and nobody ever bringing OCD to the table and understanding what exactly it was. Why was I having these intrusive thoughts that, you know, I led to burn, burnt. I was burnt out from it. And so I would go in hiding for days at a time. And it does affect your. I have two kids, 12 and 9. And, you know, you have to show up. And for me, I wasn't. I wasn't. I was not showing up in the way that I knew I should be. And so for, you know, I went down the health journey for a long time, and I was thinking, gosh, you know, what is contributing to the severe anxiety and depression? Why am I thinking these awful things when I go into the kitchen and hold a knife and I'm going to stab my cat? Like, what is happening to me? And, you know, my husband, bless his heart, he's such an amazing, supportive partner, but he was also just kind of like feeling defeated. What can I do? What. What needs to be different? You know, I live a beautiful life in sunny California and I'm working my dream job, but it always felt like this cloud was following me and I could not escape it. And it got so, so dark for a long time. And quite honestly, I battled it pretty bad until I met Liam. And so since finding out that I have ocd, it has been the biggest blessing in so many ways. Understanding why I am the way that I am, you know, having tools to help prevent those spirals, seeking therapy now for the correct diagnosis has been truly life changing. And I think it's really helped. And I educate my kids on what OCD is. I tell them why I do the things that I'm doing, what's happening. I haven't had a depression episode since. I mean, that's amazing. Huge. I would. I would almost expect them monthly to be like, okay, here we go, here's what's happening. I wake up, my OCD's really loud, not knowing it's OCD, and then go into these funks, turn down every social, anything that brings me any amount of joy. And it was like, you know, these.
- [09:36]
Christina Orlova
These
- [09:38]
Alicia
episodes that I would have, and I don't. I don't have them anymore because I'm getting the proper help. And, yeah, I mean, now I think it's really open in my house. It's really talked about, you know, and we can educate each other. And my husband now understands more of maybe why I say the things I say or why I'm needing, you know, his reassurance. You know, I'm not perfect. I'm. I still. I still have my things. And so when my relationship OCD comes up, he's now equipped with how to respond and what to do as a partner and a supportive partner when that comes up, when before he would be, come on this again. We're going down this road again, honey. And it would strain a really healthy relationship. We love each other dearly. But when you are. When you are know, in a relationship and one is struggling immensely and the other is living their happy life, it is going to cause some conflict whether you like it or not. Love is not enough sometimes. And for us, it was always this, gosh, what is? What do we do? What more, you know? And he would always say, what more do you need? And I'm like, you don't understand. You don't get it. You're not in my head. I don't know how to explain this to you. Again, before I had ocd, I was like, it's really loud. And I. I told him, I was like, I just need the noise to go away. And I would. You know, I would try to vocalize that, but unless you have it, you just truly don't understand how really tough it is. So we're in a good place now. And that is all because of, again, just knowing exactly what it is and what's going on. So.
- [11:16]
Christina Orlova
Well, I think you kind of. Yeah, but I think you said something really important there, right? Because when you don't even know what it is, you don't even know how to talk about it.
- [11:24]
Alicia
Yeah.
- [11:25]
Christina Orlova
Right. Yeah. I don't even know how to explain this to you. I just know that there's this. This intensity going on inside, and it's like this revving up, and then all this stuff is twirling, and I feel out of control. Yeah. I feel crazy is such a common thing I hear from so many people and just. I don't even know what this is. I don't know how to explain it
- [11:42]
Alicia
to you, but just.
- [11:43]
Christina Orlova
Can you tell me again? Can you tell me again and. Absolutely. It wears and tears and relationships.
- [11:48]
Alicia
Shame. Because I have this beautiful human who is so supportive and loving and loves me for all the things, and I am just bringing us down, you know? And you're like, gosh, at some point he's gonna end this. Why would he do this to himself? I'm the one that's struggling, you know, like, at some point he's gonna go, enough's enough. And so I lived with that, you know, so. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you figured that out.
- [12:13]
Christina Orlova
I mean, honestly, I think it just speaks to how long the journey can be.
- [12:16]
Liam
Right.
- [12:16]
Christina Orlova
Like, it really does take time. And the truth is, like, I don't want to lie. I mean, like, I treat OCD right, and this is something. Something I. I hear really commonly from couples, too, or the other side of it. Right. Like, I. I may be like, I Love my partner, but man, I'm exhausted. Like, or I'm actually, I have resentment or like, you look, I have some built up anger and frustration. Like, that's rightfully so.
- [12:37]
Alicia
Yeah, right, right. Like they're, you know, you're pulling them away from. From their best self because they're, they're exhausted trying to figure out what's going on with you. And the relationship becomes about the relationship. And at some point it's like, is this, Is this what it's about? What. What's gotta give here? You know? And I went down the road of. Of, oh, gosh, I. It's a whole nother topic, but the whole health obsession took over because I thought that was the answer.
- [13:01]
Christina Orlova
So, of course, because our little brain loves to move on and latch on to other new little topics. But I'm just so glad to hear that you. You guys sounds like, have better understanding, support, and at least now there can be some levity in their relationship. And, And I mean, yeah, that's. That's awesome.
- [13:16]
Alicia
There's goals and we're on a path when before you, you know, you're just going in circles, chasing your tail, going, what the hell is happening? And so, yeah, there's clarity there, which is really, really nice.
- [13:26]
Christina Orlova
Amazing. All right, Liam, your turn.
- [13:32]
Liam
Yeah, my journey was a little different. So just a little bit of background. I had spent 15 years doing television news, and the last three of them, I was on the morning schedule, so doing the morning show for the CBS station in Boston. And for that, I was up at 2:30 in the morning five days a week. And about a year into it, I had this major mental health crisis where I was just depressed all the time, crazy, intrusive thoughts. My compulsions were getting really out of control, and I didn't know what was going on with me. I, at that point in my life, still had not been diagnosed with ocd. It had not been identified that that might be what was going on. And I just figured this is the sleep deprivation doing its thing, which to some extent was true. And so about a year more of that, I kept it private, quiet, didn't tell anyone, wasn't even really being fully honest with myself, but certainly wasn't telling my wife what was going on, was trying to hide it from everyone. And finally I just had this breaking point where I was in such a state, I was like sneaking away into closets to cry by myself and was just so, so sad and in such a dark place. I finally said, all right, I'm going to open up to My wife and I did, and that started us on a path of figuring out what was going on at first. My wife is a clinical psychologist, so she has, of course, a lot of background in this, and she thought, maybe this is generalized anxiety disorder. Maybe you've got depression. We were trying to figure it out. I was going to therapy. That person didn't identify it. And finally we had this one night where we're lying in bed together, and thank God we have very open relationship at this point where I was able to communicate with her, okay, here's what's happening in my mind right now. And she finally noticed all this checking stuff that I was doing. And then she started to dig into that, okay, so what's actually happening in your mind when you're doing that? And then I started opening up about light switches, and I can only use blue pen. If I use black pen, people are going to die. I started telling her about the prayers that I was doing, and she was like, OCD. And that was. I was, you know, I don't know, 38 or something. Which is a very familiar story with people with OCD where they're not diagnosed until much later in life or they're misdiagnosed or they can't get access to treatment. Fortunately, that wasn't the case for me. I was able to get treatment to figure it out. I'm now in. In erp and that has really, I would say, strengthened our relationship because for a long time, there was similar with Alicia and Spence, there was this question of, like, what is going on with you? Why do you need to keep asking me this question 400 times? And now that we both understand the mechanics of it and that I'm getting help so that the symptoms aren't as strong, it's just really made us that much stronger as a couple. And she is working behind me right now, so it's a little awkward that she can hear all this, but that's okay.
- [16:55]
Christina Orlova
Yeah. I mean, thank you for sharing all that. First of all, when you said that, I'm like, it's pretty incredible when you have a partner that actually understands and knows the field and helped you figure that out. I mean, that. That's pretty unique. But to your point, like, yeah, we don't share this stuff and can go on and on for so many years without knowing.
- [17:15]
Liam
Yeah, oh, I definitely was victim to that. That male mentality of, I'm going to figure this out on my own. I'm not going to show anyone any weakness. Like I said I was. I would sneak Away to cry. I didn't want anyone to know I was crying. You know, is this stupid stuff that now I recognize is not helpful to anyone?
- [17:34]
Christina Orlova
Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of the stuff, like whether you're told that out, like, outright, or whether you just learn that from the world of society, like, what is a guy supposed to do or be like? Or what you're supposed to hold or not hold or share or, you know, and even about mental health, right? Like, oh, a lot of people, I hear stuff like, I don't want to share this stuff because I'm going to seem like I'm crazy. That's just such a common statement that I hear. There's so much, you know, fear and stigma around that. Right. And it's like, yeah, but. But stuff is going on. Yeah. And you're not. Okay. Right. So, like, at what point do you, like, how far do you have to go to have that breaking point? To finally say, okay, like, I gotta. I gotta talk to somebody.
- [18:16]
Alicia
Put your ego aside and be like, this. This needs help. I need help.
- [18:19]
Christina Orlova
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [18:21]
Liam
Well, the irony in not. Sorry. The irony in. Is that in not seeking that help, you're actually much weaker. Right. The whole point is that you're trying to be strong and not show weakness, but by not getting the help and being honest about what's going on, you make yourself much worse and therefore weaker and more of a burden to the people around you. All of that.
- [18:45]
Christina Orlova
So, like. Okay, I want to know a little bit more if we can dig in, like, in terms of your family systems. You have kids, Liam?
- [18:52]
Liam
Yes, two. Eleven and eight.
- [18:54]
Christina Orlova
Yeah, that amazing. And so, like, being both of you, right? Like having family and having kids. I know. Like Alicia, you said that now in the family, things are more open. And you're. You're saying, like, for you, that really kind of, like, lifted stuff and normalized it. Right. Like, like, so for you with kids, I'm just curious, what does that sound like if you're having that conversation? Right. Because I think a lot of people sometimes don't know. How do I. I approach this? What do I say? Do I not say? How much do I share?
- [19:23]
Alicia
Well, okay, there's a couple examples I can give you. One of them just happened last night. My. My older son, he's very, very smart and he is always asking me questions about mental health stuff. He has some ADHD and anxiety, so naturally I think that he can relate and he wants to know, you know, why he does certain things and impulsivity and all the things. So he's the one that's a little bit more curious. But he was. He was playing with the drawer, and there was a piece of something sticking out of the drawer, and he was playing with it with his foot. And he said, mom, is this ocd? And I was like, well, let's. Let's dive into that. So we sat down, and I asked him, I said, what's going on in your head when you do that? He goes, well, it bothers me that it sticks out. I said, that's only the thing that comes. Probably not. But if more thoughts come into your head, that. Whatever.
- [20:08]
Christina Orlova
So
- [20:10]
Alicia
we definitely. We definitely explore that. And I think because I talk about it, he's, like, curious if he also has it. And. Oh, wait, let me go back. One. One thing that came up that was really intense for me and experience with my OCD was a Halloween. He went out with his friends for the first time without me, and that was very triggering. I was spiraling. I remember. Do you remember this, Liam, where I was like, yeah, I was freaking out, thinking everything was going to happen to him. And I was calling him and calling him and calling him, and he finally said, mom, this is your ocd. I am safe. Please don't call me again. And I was like, you're right. Have fun. I'm not going to call you again. So little moments like that are so important because this poor child is thinking, why is my mom. Like, what am I doing wrong, Mom? Why are you calling? You know? And I don't want him to carry that responsibility. I don't. And he fell victim to my OCD compulsion, which is calling, calling, checking, checking. I even called his friend who he was with because he didn't hear his watch. It was. It was just a lot. And he finally, like, was able to express to me because he knew, mom, I'm okay. Please go home. Enjoy your night. And I was like, wow, you are right.
- [21:34]
Christina Orlova
Okay.
- [21:35]
Alicia
And that's. That is huge. To be educated at 12 years old on why your mom is doing something that, you know, it was a lot. That's a lot. And when I look back, I think, gosh, before I knew it was ocd, before he knew, you know, how would that have gone otherwise? I probably would have gone and picked him up and been like, you know, just.
- [21:56]
Christina Orlova
Just.
- [21:56]
Alicia
I'm not ready yet. Get in the car and think about. I mean, he wouldn't have known otherwise. He would have been like, okay, why are you taking me from my friend's house? This is weird, but I'LL get in.
- [22:07]
Christina Orlova
Yeah, totally.
- [22:09]
Alicia
You know, so I don't know if that answered the question on how these conversations come up, but that is one example of. Yeah, we just talk about it and what it is, and I'm learning with him.
- [22:19]
Christina Orlova
Well, I love that because you're normalizing it. And like you said, instead of. Because, you know, kids interpret stuff however they interpret it in their kid brain, right. So easily they can personalize it or they can look at it like, my mom's just weird. But this at least gives you both a language and a way to understand. And how. I mean, how beautiful and helpful is that when you're having a moment and your kid's like, ma, I love you. This is your ocd. And you can be like, okay, yeah, I got it. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay, bye.
- [22:43]
Alicia
Bye. Yeah, he did. He did that, actually. Yeah, I just thought of another thing where he was going on his bike and I was. I was again, a million questions thinking of all the scenarios, and he paused. He goes, mom, is this more about me or you right now? And I was like, wow, you're right. You're doing everything right. This is me and my fears. Go ahead, have fun. I'll see you. You know, and it is the hardest thing ever to let him go and do all the things because I imagine him getting hit by a car five seconds later. So, yeah, I think it's really important that. That he knows and he's aware and. And he can. He can step up, he can tell me. Not gonna lie.
- [23:21]
Christina Orlova
Sounds like an impressive kiddo at 12,
- [23:24]
Alicia
like, okay, communicate with them. Right. That's because I'm not afraid to share all that, you know, it is. It's who I am right now. And it's. I think it's important to know where those things stem from. Well, yeah.
- [23:35]
Christina Orlova
Not make it taboo. And I think that's the best thing we as humans can do, period, especially in family and with kids, is not make difficult things sound like there's something that's off topic. Make it normal. Make it. Make it something that's casual, that we can talk about any and all things. Bring it to the table, figure it
- [23:51]
Alicia
out, you know, if he were to come, if OCD were to hit him at 17 or 20, and. And he's now well equipped and well educated on what that is, what to look for, how to manage it, you know, and. And I don't want it to surprise him later in life.
- [24:07]
Liam
Yeah, yeah, that'd be funny if you told him to put his plate in the Sink. And he was like, mom, that's your ocd.
- [24:17]
Christina Orlova
Oh, that's messed up. We're gonna wait till he's a teen to pull one of those.
- [24:22]
Alicia
Yeah, I'm sure it's coming. It's headed my way, for sure.
- [24:26]
Christina Orlova
That's funny. Well, Liam, your turn. What about you with your. With your kiddos? What do you guys do?
- [24:33]
Liam
Yeah, I think it's actually made me a better parent in some ways. So every kid, whether they have OCD or not, is going to experience anxiety. And the way you would approach helping your kid manage that is similar to the way you would approach helping them handle ocd. So Alicia and I had Ellie Lebowitz on the. Our show a couple of months ago, and of course, he's the one who developed Space, which is this model for parenting children with OCD and anxiety disorders. So my son right now is, you know, very normally struggling with going to sleep at night and being in the dark, and my wife and I will put him to bed, and, you know, the lights go off, and every single night, he's like, I want you to sit in the room until I fall asleep. And for a while, I was doing that, and then it was sometime after we had Ellie Lebowitz on. I was like, no, I think I'm just going to let you sit in here, and it's okay. And I try to give him confidence around it, express my confidence that he's going to be fine. He can get through. Through it, and he gets really upset sometimes, and, you know, we'll say that he's really angry with us or whatever, but with each night, I think it does get a little easier for him, and he starts to see, okay, I really can do this. And mom and dad are modeling their confidence in me that I can do this. So. And my wife had been doing that all along, of course, because she's a clinical psychologist. But I would sit in the room, and now I'm like, I should never have been sitting in the room. We had the same experience around sleep training, where there's a very funny episode of Modern Family where the gay couple. I forget their names, Cameron and whatever, are sleep training their baby, Lily. And one of the. One of the couple is totally fine with it and just ruthless about putting the baby down and leaving the room. And the other one is, like, hugging the pillow and crying into it. And I was the one hugging the pillow and crying into it. During sleep training, my wife was like, no, this is good. This is what the baby needs. The baby needs sleep. We need Sleep, it's all going to be good. She will be fine. And I was an absolute wreck. And now I look back on and I'm like, yeah, you're modeling confidence that they can do it. You're giving them compassion, you know, understanding that it can be difficult for them. And that's sometimes their fight or flight is kicked off by it. It's not an easy experience, but that you can get through it. And you're teaching your kid to sit with discomfort and to be okay with discomfort, which for someone with ocd, learning that is everything that's the whole game is learning how to sit with that discomfort and the uncertainty of it. And so to be able to give that to your kids at a young age, I mean, if I could go back and tell my 8 year old self, hey, you have OCD, go find a book about what that means. Ask your parents to get a therapist. That'd be the first thing I tell my eight year old self. Like, dude, look up ocd. You know?
- [27:40]
Alicia
Yeah. Do your kids know you have ocd, Liam?
- [27:44]
Liam
Yes, they do know I have ocd. We haven't talked a whole lot about it, but they know I have it and they know generally what it is.
- [27:55]
Alicia
Yeah. I mean, how do you hide it? When you're standing at the light switch for 15 minutes, you're like, daddy just really likes it here. This is a new hobby.
- [28:07]
Liam
Why are the lights flicking on and off in here so often?
- [28:10]
Alicia
Don't worry about it, son. Go outside.
- [28:11]
Christina Orlova
Daddy's like, party time.
- [28:13]
Liam
Hey, that's a strobe light.
- [28:21]
Alicia
Oh, man.
- [28:22]
Christina Orlova
Thank you for sharing that though. I mean, I think that's true for a lot of us, right? We look back in hindsight and like, so many things would be different if we had that. But I think that's beautiful. Yeah. Space is a great program also, and I think it's, it's true to your point, like, there's always. It's hard, right, because it pulls on your heartstrings too, like, oh, I have to leave you. And you look like you're in distress and ah, everything in you is to protect. And yet that's, that's the piece to learn is like, I'm actually not protecting you. I'm teaching you that you can't handle it instead of the opposite. Well, thank you both so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you both opening up. And so if folks would like to find you, how can they find you?
- [29:06]
Alicia
I always let. Liam, Liam, you're better at speaking. You speak.
- [29:13]
Liam
We're on Instagram and TikTok.
- [29:14]
Alicia
We don't know that by now, Liam, that I just lean on you for all of it. I told Christina when she asked if we wanted to do this together. I was like, no, he's my support blanket. I need him.
- [29:28]
Liam
I gotta put on some pounds. Then if I'm gonna be like a a teddy bear.
- [29:32]
Alicia
You're my weighted blanket.
- [29:37]
Liam
We are at the OCD Confessional on Instagram and TikTok and then we are on every podcast platform you might use. You just search OCD Confessional.
- [29:47]
Christina Orlova
Love it.
- [29:47]
Alicia
Thank you so much Christina for having us.
- [29:50]
Christina Orlova
Thank you. Thanks for listening to the OCD Whisperer podcast. Remember, freedom from OCD is a journey and you're not alone. Visit www.coraresults.com to explore self help mastery classes like Sneaky Rituals with Jenna Overbaugh or ICBT Masterclass with Christina Inabe. Don't forget to grab your OCD CBT journal tracker and planner while you're there. If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, share and leave a five star review to help others find the podcast. Together we can make a difference. Keep going and I'll see you in the next episode.
- [30:34]
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