Episode 893: Lasting Relational Leadership

Summary

The Official BNI Podcast: Episode 893 – Lasting Relational Leadership

Release Date: January 15, 2025
Host: Dr. Ivan Misner
Guest: Mike Holman, BNI National Director for the UK and Ireland

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Introduction

In Episode 893 of The Official BNI Podcast, Dr. Ivan Misner delves into the concept of Lasting Relational Leadership with seasoned BNI leader, Mike Holman. Drawing from Mike's 25-year journey within BNI, the conversation explores the foundational elements of effective leadership and the pivotal role of genuine relationships in fostering business growth and personal development.

Guest Introduction: Mike Holman

Mike Holman brings a wealth of experience to the table, having transitioned from a dedicated BNI member to a key leadership role. His journey includes founding a new BNI territory in the United Kingdom and ultimately serving as the BNI National Director for the UK and Ireland since June 2022. Mike's insights are rooted in his extensive tenure and his commitment to nurturing meaningful business relationships.

Lasting Relational Leadership

Dr. Misner opens the discussion by introducing the theme of Lasting Relational Leadership. Mike emphasizes the importance of strong foundational relationships, likening them to the sturdy bases of enduring structures:

Mike Holman [02:09]: "There are many structures around the world that I actually admire. ... every one of these structures has an incredible foundation beneath it that supports it. Well, I truly believe as a leader and as a member, we also need to have those foundations in place."

The Importance of Knowing and Being Known

A central theme of the episode is the question, "Do people really know me?" Mike shares a transformative experience inspired by Simon Sinek's "Start with Why," highlighting the power of personal purpose in leadership:

Mike Holman [02:49]: "I stopped and I just basically told them what my purpose was. And I told them, really from the heart about why I care deeply about their success."

This approach not only changed the atmosphere in the room but also reinforced the significance of leaders genuinely connecting with their teams.

The 'Why' Factor in Leadership

Dr. Misner expands on the concept of the "why," stressing its critical role in leadership effectiveness. He underscores the necessity of understanding and communicating the purpose behind actions to inspire and engage others:

Dr. Ivan Misner [04:13]: "People naturally go to why. ... When you can show that attendance absolutely increases the number of referrals in a chapter, then people are willing to listen to the how so."

This alignment of purpose and action fosters a more motivated and committed network.

Depth vs. Breadth in Relationships

The conversation shifts to the depth versus breadth of professional relationships. Mike advocates for cultivating a select number of deep, meaningful connections rather than numerous superficial ones:

Mike Holman [07:47]: "Every single member probably needs … 8 to 10 really good, strong relationships they can manage and focus on and get the most out of."

Dr. Misner complements this by illustrating that a network must be both wide and profound to be truly effective:

Dr. Ivan Misner [08:47]: "If your network is a mile wide and an inch deep, it'll never be very powerful."

The Power of Personal Stories

Personal narratives play a crucial role in building trust and rapport. Mike discusses the significance of sharing personal goals and ambitions to foster authentic connections:

Mike Holman [06:09]: "What are your personal goals? What do you want to achieve for yourself, your family? What's your ambitions?"

Dr. Misner adds that actions speak louder than words, reinforcing the importance of aligning behaviors with expressed intentions.

Illustrative Metaphors

The dialogue includes memorable metaphors to underscore key points. Dr. Misner recalls the story of eucalyptus trees to illustrate the fragility of networks that lack depth:

Dr. Ivan Misner [09:14]: "Eucalyptus trees have a root system that spreads very wide but doesn't go very deep. So when it gets really tall and the wind hits it, it knocks it over."

This metaphor serves as a cautionary tale for maintaining strong, resilient business relationships.

Whose Story Are You Part Of?

The discussion concludes with the poignant question, "Whose story are you part of?" Mike emphasizes the impact individuals can have on each other's lives through their roles within BNI:

Mike Holman [10:22]: "BNI is the operating system and we have the ability to bring people together and it's people that change people's lives."

He encourages members to actively invest in others, highlighting that leadership is about empowering others rather than changing oneself.

Personal Reflections

Mike shares a deeply personal story about his relationship with his father, illustrating the long-term effects of leadership and sacrifice:

Mike Holman [10:32]: "When I was growing up, I came from a very working-class background... I realized only later in life the reason he did it. He did it. ... I never want any of our members to have to sacrifice their family for their business or their business for their family."

This reflection underscores the importance of balancing professional aspirations with personal well-being.

Conclusion

Dr. Misner and Mike Holman wrap up the episode by expressing mutual appreciation for each other's contributions to BNI. The conversation reiterates the episode's central message: Effective leadership is built on the foundation of lasting, meaningful relationships. By understanding and embodying the "why," and by fostering deep connections, leaders can create resilient and thriving networks.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mike Holman [02:09]: "There are many structures around the world that I actually admire. ... every one of these structures has an incredible foundation beneath it that supports it."

• Mike Holman [02:49]: "I stopped and I just basically told them what my purpose was. And I told them, really from the heart about why I care deeply about their success."

• Dr. Ivan Misner [04:13]: "When you can show that attendance absolutely increases the number of referrals in a chapter, then people are willing to listen to the how so."

• Mike Holman [07:47]: "Every single member probably needs … 8 to 10 really good, strong relationships they can manage and focus on and get the most out of."

• Dr. Ivan Misner [08:47]: "If your network is a mile wide and an inch deep, it'll never be very powerful."

• Mike Holman [10:22]: "BNI is the operating system and we have the ability to bring people together and it's people that change people's lives."

• Mike Holman [10:32]: "I never want any of our members to have to sacrifice their family for their business or their business for their family."

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This episode serves as a profound reminder that lasting leadership is not just about strategic initiatives or business acumen; it's fundamentally about the quality of relationships we build and the authenticity we bring to our interactions.

Transcript

[Priscilla Rice]

Episode 893, Lasting Relational Leadership.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

You're listening to the official BI podcast with BI founder and chief visionary officer, Dr. Ivan Meisner. Stay tuned for networking and referral marketing tips from the man who's been called the father of modern networking, along with suggestions and insights into getting the most from your membership in the world's largest networking organization, bni.

[Priscilla Rice]

Hello everybody and welcome back to the official. Welcome to the Official B and I podcast. I'm Priscilla Rice and I'm coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, California. And I'm joined on the phone today by the founder and the Chief visionary officer of BNI, Dr. Ivan Meisner. Hello, Ivan, how are you and where are you?

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Well, I am in Austin this week at home. I just spent a better part of a week with my co authors of another book I'm working on called Garage to How do youo Take youe Business from your Garage to a Global Enterprise. So that was an interesting week. Yeah, it's going to be a great book, I think.

[Priscilla Rice]

Yeah, that sounds like an interesting topic.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

I have another interesting topic today with someone who I've known a very long time, that is with my guest today is Mike Holman. Mike has been involved with BNI for 25 years. He started his journey as a BNI member first and then became a member of the leadership team. And then two years into the journey he had was given the opportunity to start a brand new territory in the United Kingdom and went on to actually own his own BNI franchise there. In June of 2022, he was given the honor and opportunity to become the BNI National Director for the UK and Ireland. And Mike says he proudly adores that role. Mike, welcome to the BNI podcast.

[Mike Holman]

Thank you, Ivan. Pleasure to be here.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

It's good to have you. So we're talking about relational, lasting relational leadership. Explain that.

[Mike Holman]

Yeah, there's many structures around the world that I actually admire. And you look at these buildings and these structures and they've been there for hundreds, thousands of years sometimes. And every one of these structures has an incredible foundation beneath it that supports it. Well, I truly believe as a leader and as a member, we also need to have those foundations in place. And those foundations, as a leader or member really come through the relationships that we build. And if we want something that's going to last a long time, that we invest into those relationships. Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

So one of the first things on this topic that you wanted me to talk about was do people really know me? Tell me about that.

[Mike Holman]

Yeah, I learned a lot over the years, personally, myself. And I remember a breakthrough moment when I really felt I developed as a leader. It was on the back of a lot of learning. It was on the back of Simon Sinek, start with why. And I remember standing up in front of a membership. I was the executive director, and I was trying to explain to the leaders of the region what we should be doing, the direction we should be going, and it was falling on deaf ears. People are looking at me thinking, yeah, all you care about is growing. You'll be in our franchise. You don't really care about us. And I stopped and I just basically told them what my purpose was. And I told them, really from the heart about why I care deeply about. About their success. And it completely changed the environment in the room. People come up to me afterwards said, I really understand what's driving you. And I've used that ever since, really, to try to inspire other people to share their story. I read a title or a quote in a book many years ago. Now, I can't remember the person who said it, but it has. Leaders are leaders, not due to their rank or title, but their ability to influence people to want to change. And that always stayed with me. And I also remember a quote of yours, Ivan, which was, if you want to influence people, inspire them and transform them, tell great stories, and there's no greater story than our own story when we're building relationships.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah, I think a lot of people in leadership roles are so focused on the how, they forget about the why. Not only their personal why, which is what you're talking about. And I think that's important. And I found that when I was visiting individual chapters, I was basically a director. I would always go there and say, look, I care about your success. I want you to be wildly successful in this organization. And that's why I'm here. And that's why I'm, you know, offering the suggestions that I am. Because people do naturally go to why. You just want to, you know, make more, sell more. Whatever business you're in, everybody always thinks that about you. But if you start with, you know, your personal why, but also I would add to that the why related to the topic that you're discussing. So if you're talking about attendance, why is attendance important? What. What's the data behind it? What's it show? But. But people don't care about how until they understand the why. And when you can show that attendance absolutely increases the number of referrals in a chapter, then people are willing to listen to the how so? The why factor to me is, Is critical.

[Mike Holman]

I, I remember, Ivan, you said. I mean, I think I must have heard it 20 years ago for the first time and thankfully many times since. You've always said people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And that goes through every part of what you're saying. Understanding of why we encourage people to do the things that they do in any aspect of their membership to help them get the best out of their membership.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah. And, you know, you, you can talk about how you care, but you also need to show them that you care. There's a, an old quote on. See if I can remember it. I cannot hear the word you're saying because of the behavior you're showing or something like that. It's a phrase like that in how you behave, how you act shows whether you care or not. Yeah.

[Mike Holman]

And I'd really encourage all our members to really tell people their story. Why. And we have an amazing tool in bni. Ivan, I'm sure you have created the gains profile. And I think sometimes we get a little bit too transactional with that gains profile. We look at that, we think about the goals of our business, the confidence in our business, the interest. But taking that to a more personal level really helps people connect with one another. So what are your personal goals? What do you want to achieve for yourself, your family? What's your ambitions? And when we get into that personal level with our fellow members, that's when people, I truly believe, truly open up to one another. Because we may be the expert at what we do in our industry, but if people don't genuinely connect with us because they don't really know us, then they can be reluctant to be passing us those referrals that we all truly would love to see our members get. Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

And, and I think a lot of people bypass that in the gains exchange. The gains exchange is written in a way that talks about some transactional issues like, you know, what are your goals and what are your accomplishments, but your interests are really relational. And we tried to break it up so that, you know, people were trying to focus on both. And it's, it's very important. I find that quote, by the way, what you do speak so loudly I cannot hear the word you're saying. And, and so, you know, it's important to say these things and then behave that walk, the talk in what you do. So talk to me about the depth of relationships. Depth versus breadth of relationships. I know that was one of your topics.

[Mike Holman]

Yeah, absolutely. And again, about relationships in bni, I encourage all our members think about the room of people around you. We think about the depth relations you have with people. We have a great opportunity to get lots and lots of relationships in BNI through our chapter, beyond our chapter. But I ask, I encourage people to really invest in those key relationships in their, in their room that they have around them. We as amazing. We have chapters at 100 plus members all around the world. But every single member probably needs, I'm not sure you think, Ivan. Probably 8 to 10 really good, strong relationships they can manage and focus on and get them, get the most out of. So are we actually really investing into those people, getting to really truly know them, helping understand the referrals they want, how we can educate and train them how to find the referrals that we want. So I think that's really important that people do invest if they want to build a relationship with people, that they invest deeply into those relationships and not have the scattergun approach to relationship building.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah, two things on that. One is if you're, if your network is a mile wide and an inch deep, it'll never be very powerful. So it needs to be both wide and in places deep, which is what you're saying. You need to have some relationships that you in fact go deep and you know them well and they know you well and that's the only way you're really going to build a powerful personal network.

[Mike Holman]

And you reminded us of that great story of your own where you talked about the roots of a tree.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yes.

[Mike Holman]

When there was a storm. Do you want to share that one again? I love that.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah. I've talked about it on a podcast before. When I lived in Southern California, there are these eucalyptus trees that were brought from another country into Southern California. And in Southern California we have these Santa Ana winds that were really, really high winds. And it's in oftentimes in the news, you'd see these trees that had fallen over and they're almost always eucalyptus trees. And the reason they're eucalyptus trees is that those trees have a, a root system that spreads very wide but doesn't go very deep. So when it gets really tall and the wind hits it, it knocks it over. And I see this when I, when I, when I saw that when I lived in Southern California, I thought of members who, when they were going through difficult times, they had this wide network, but it didn't go very deep. And so their business would just fall over because they didn't have these, this wide network beneath them. Which I think is. Which is absolutely critical.

[Mike Holman]

I love that story.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah. So your last topic that you wanted to talk about was whose story are you part of? But that a little.

[Mike Holman]

Yeah. Again, it's really. I used to say all the time being I changes people's lives. And actually, no, it doesn't. People change people's lives.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah.

[Mike Holman]

BNI is the operating system and we have the ability to bring people together and it's people that change people's lives. So I'd ask everybody to think about whose life could they be impacting this week, next week, next month? Who is the person you see the greatest potential in? Who is the person who's behaving may have changed and you're a little bit concerned about them? Who is the person you're indebted to? Who is the person you'd really like to see be a success and just invest into those people? We talk about the principles of being. I give as gain, but I truly see the givers give are the ones who are the true leaders and the people that other people admire, respect in bni. And I would just encourage everybody just to reach out to one person because they can really influence that person and change somebody's life by being in their story.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

I agree completely. It's not who's in your story, but whose story are you in that I think makes a difference in people's lives? We are literally almost out of time. But I know you had a short. Maybe you can make a short story about your childhood.

[Mike Holman]

Well, I mean, a lot of people ask me this and say, well, what was the story you told your members that influenced them? And it's simply this. When I was growing up, I came from a very working class background. My father was a bus driver. And as he was a bus driver in the 70s, he would be working lots of shifts at the weekend. He could earn more money doing that and he'd work double shifts even at the weekends. The result was I didn't get to spend much time with him. So growing up, me and my dad didn't have a great relationship. He was never a bad dad, I was never a bad kid. We just didn't get much time together. But it did mean that relationship was a little bit soured. And then I realized only later in life the reason he did it. He did it. He worked those hours, he sacrificed time with the family because he needed to put the clothes on the back, he needed to put the roof over her head, he needed to put the food on the table. And I turned around to our members and said, I never want any of our members to have to sacrifice their family for their business or their business for their family. I truly believe B and I can help you in all aspects of your life. My father had no choice. You do.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

What a great story, and it's good that you shared that with your members, and that kind of personal connection can make all the difference. Mike, I appreciate what you do, and thanks for your many years in bni. I really do appreciate it.

[Mike Holman]

Thank you, Ivan. It's been an absolute pleasure. All those years, it's been awesome.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

All right, well, we need to have you back on BNI podcast.

[Mike Holman]

Thank you, Zach.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Priscilla, back over to you.

[Priscilla Rice]

Okay. That was wonderful. Thank you. That's it for this week. This podcast is sponsored by MeisnerAudioPrograms.com these audio programs will provide you with the tools and the inspiration to powerfully enhance your BNI experience. So check out the great material that's available to [e-mail] and then use the promo code IVAN5O for 50% off of everything. All of the proceeds go to the BNI Foundation. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we look forward to having you join us again next week for another exciting episode of the official B and I podcast.