C (3:04)

Yeah. And you, you talk about networking not working. When it's transactional, which is a message that I have said many, many, many times, it's got to be relational, not transactional. You want to talk about that at all? Yeah.

B (3:15)

Well, you know, over 2,000 years ago, Cicero, Marcus Trulius Cicero wrote the first book that I'm aware of about friendship, and he said that friends don't seek to profit or gain advantage from one another. So when we talk about friendship in its purest sense, we're talking about a relationship that is not transactional. It's not about gaining advantage over another person. Benefits can happen, but it's not the reason you're there. Now, that doesn't sound like it belongs in networking, but it actually does. If relationship is built around what I can get, once the ask is made or missed, the energy just drains out of it. There's nothing left to grow. So the problem is transactional thinking. Now, I've been a friend of yours and BNI's for many, many, many years. You don't have to tell me that the core philosophy is givers gain. And even that is sometimes misunderstood. It does not mean I give, so you give back to me. That means I give without keeping score. And you know what's below the waterline of that is that one trust that the relationship and the community builds over time. And it does so friend working, which is the distinction that I make. It works best when people are not tracking favors or positioning for advantage and they're treating each other as equals whose trust and reputation matter. The business happens, but it's the outcome, not the motive. So if I was going to put it into, like some kind of a slogan that I could print on my mug, it would say friendship and networking are not opposites. Transactional thinking and networking are.

C (4:59)

Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I've talked about with givers gain is that it doesn't have to be. You know, you may give me a referral, I may not be able to give you a referral back, but I can support you in some way. I can give you advice, I can give you suggestions, I can maybe make connections that will help you. There's a lot of ways to give back back in a relationship besides some kind of reciprocal referral situation, which is obviously what BNI talks about a lot. But we also try to make it clear that it isn't transactional. It's relational. And there's a lot of ways to.

B (5:29)

Build a relationship Yeah, I mean, referrals do not come. They come from a relationship. They don't come from performance. You and I have talked for years about what I call the Hollywood schmooze or lose model.

C (5:44)

Yeah.

B (5:45)

When I refer someone, you refer someone. I'm attaching my reputation to them. So I'm not asking are they impressive? I'm asking do I feel safe putting my name next to theirs? Now, in the schmooze or lose model, that's an approach that encourages people to be on, to perform, to be memorable and polished, visible. But that performance never, ever, ever did I say never Creates safety. Presence does. And people will only refer those who are steady, grounded and consistent, not the people that work the room the hardest. So, you know, friendship inside. That kind of a model has certain kind of values. You know, number one, it's about generating that you're safe, that there's no pressure here. People relax when they don't feel evaluated or pressured. Follow through is currency. You do what you say you'll do, especially when it's small and unglamorous. Reliability builds trust faster than charisma ever will. You listen, when somebody shares a challenge, you don't jump in with solutions.

C (6:59)

Right.

B (7:00)

You reflect on what you heard first. That sounds frustrating, that kind of thing. It seems like that really matters to you. You're building rapport. You're not performing it. And then, you know, you have consistency. You people, most people try to stand out. And a friend working is built by being steady, by being, you know, you tend it the way you tend a garden. Consistency over time beats a strong impression every time. And then, you know, the most important thing to me is that you protect other people's reputation. You never put someone, a friend or a business association or associate or somebody you want to do business with. You never put them in an awkward position. You never over ask you. People only refer people who are careful with their social capital, not those who spend it recklessly.

C (7:54)

Yeah. I like to say when you give a referral, you give your reputation away. You could, it could, it could enhance your reputation or it could hurt your reputation, depending on how somebody does.

A (8:04)

You get.

B (8:04)

If you're, if you're undiscerning about it, you can lose your reputation forever, quickly.

C (8:10)

Yeah. And. And getting that reputation back takes time, you know, and people try and talk their way out of, you know, problems that they got into. And a. A friend of ours, Stephen Covey, says you can't talk your way out of something you behaved your way into. That's right.

B (8:28)

You're Just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

C (8:30)

Yeah, yeah. You have to behave your way out of it. And that's all part of main creating and then maintaining that friendship. Yeah, exactly.

B (8:37)

Exactly. So, you know, there are certain kind of hallmarks of what a friendship might look like inside a networking organization like bni. It's, as I say, it's not about. It's the same. It's the same thing as a. As a large family gather. It's not about oversharing or being informal. I believe it's about relational reliability is how you show up when nothing's being asked for. So it looks like you're listening without scanning for opportunity. You're present with people. You're not looking over their shoulder. You're not running through, you know, rearming your next thought or your next idea. You're listening with them. You look. You put down your devices, you look them in the eye, and you listen. You show curiosity instead of judgment.

C (9:30)

You.

B (9:30)

You. You have. You follow through consistently.

C (9:34)

You.

B (9:35)

You demonstrate being reliable more than being impressive.

C (9:39)

You know, that last phrase you said, it reminds me of the TED Lasso episode. I think he was quoting Walt Whitman, that you have to live a life of curiosity rather than judgment. Being judgmental.

B (9:50)

Well, you know, trust you to pick up on the same cues that I pick up on you. That's exactly where it came from.

C (9:59)

Yeah, it's a great. That's a great episode. Absolutely great episode. It is.

B (10:03)

And Walt Whitman's not bad either.

C (10:05)

No. No, he is not. Listen, you know, friendship, we have not really referred business back and forth, but I consider you a really close friend, and it's because of the things that you have done to support me as a friend. You have done a couple of things related to the BNI Foundation. You, one of our conferences, came to a foundation event, which Elizabeth and I appreciated. When Elizabeth was sick, you were. You were. You reached out to me multiple times to see how she was doing. When I had cancer and repercussions from cancer, you reached out multiple times to see how I was doing. None of that, and absolutely none of that was transactional. It was all relational. And to me, that's a great example of you walking the talk in. In terms of your book, how to be a Friend.

B (10:55)

Well, I appreciate that. You know, it gets to a point. It gets to a place where what starts off as training wheels, what starts off as a lane that, you know, is a practice like going to the gym, it eventually becomes embodied, and it becomes automatic. And that at that point, you know, you. You become Safe. If. If other people don't feel safe with you, you can forget the rest. Nothing, nothing comes after that.

C (11:21)

100%. Well, we're about out of time. And for. For those of you interested in the book, it is available on Amazon, I'm sure, also available on most everywhere. Or you can go to barnettbain.com Barnett B A R N E T Bain B-A-I-N.com where I'm sure there's a link to the book. Barnett, any last thought before we we turn it over to Priscilla?

B (11:45)

Oh, I always have at least one or two. How about friendship in networking is not about being close, it's about being safe. Safe to refer, safe to recommend, safe to attach your name to. And with that, thank you so much, Ivan, for inviting me. It's always a pleasure to be with you either online or at the dinner.

C (12:08)

Table or at the TLC events. It's always great to see you there.

B (12:12)

Yeah, look forward to seeing you.

C (12:13)

All right, my friend. Thank you so much. Barnett. Over to you, Priscilla.

A (12:16)

Great. Thank you so much to both of you. This podcast is sponsored by MeisnerAudioPrograms.com these audio programs will provide you with the tools and the inspiration to powerfully enhance your B and I. So check out the great material that's available to you@meisneraudioprograms.com and then use the promo code IVAN5O for 50% off of everything. All of the proceeds go to the B and I Foundation. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we look forward to having you join us again next week for another exciting episode of the official BNI podcast.

C (12:58)

Sam.