Episode 970: Sailing or Scaling?

Summary

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Episode Summary: Sailing or Scaling? (Episode 970, The Official BNI Podcast)

Date: July 22, 2026
Host: Dr. Ivan Misner
Guest: Kip Kent, Executive Director & Owner of BNI Utah South and North Texas

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the critical choice entrepreneurs face between building a lifestyle (“sailing”) business and a legacy (“scaling”) business. Host Dr. Ivan Misner and guest Kip Kent dive into the characteristics, opportunities, and challenges of each approach—drawing from Kip’s experience as a multi-award-winning BNI leader. The conversation provides actionable reflection points for BNI members seeking to intentionally grow their businesses, along with personal anecdotes and top book recommendations for those looking to make impactful, long-term decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sailing (Lifestyle Business) vs. Scaling (Legacy Business)

[02:33 - 05:51]

Sailing: The Lifestyle Business

• Definition: “A lifestyle business... designed around the owner's desired lifestyle. As the name kind of implies, freedom is the objective.” (Kip Kent, 02:41)
• Characteristics:
  • Quality, intentional business—growth occurs, but under the owner’s direct guidance.
  • The business “revolves around the owner: their relationships, their expertise, their effort, their capacity.” (Kip Kent, 03:02)
  • Growth limited by owner’s time, energy, risk appetite, and personal involvement.
  • May involve a small team, but often struggles with succession or sale.
• Risks:
  • “Business slows if they step away... not very salable or nearly as saleable as the scaling.” (Ivan Misner, 04:23)
  • Owner dependence means the business may decline or “sink” when the founder leaves.

Scaling: The Legacy Business

• Definition: “Scaling or legacy business... is a very intentional process... Business becomes larger than the original founder, owner. It's built to thrive beyond the owner.” (Kip Kent, 04:41)
• Characteristics:
  • Driven by systems, additional people, strong leadership, culture, and repeatable processes.
  • “Growth is no longer constrained by one person.” (Kip Kent, 05:14)
  • Enables multigenerational impact, more opportunities, and higher enterprise value.
• Aim: To “replace dependence on the founder” and build longevity.
• Flexible Scope: “It doesn’t have to be global scaling... could be scaling in your city... regionally... national, or global. Scaling is up to you and your goals. But scaling is leaving a legacy business.” (Ivan Misner, 06:11)

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2. Reflecting on Personal “10X Jumps”

[07:35 - 10:54]

• Concept: To scale, reflect on times you made significant growth leaps (“10x jumps”) in life.
• Personal Anecdote: Kip shares his evolution:
  • Joining the military at 18 with little life or work experience, he went through dramatic personal growth (“at least a 10x personal jump for me in my life”) (Kip Kent, 08:43).
  • Later, religious service in England represented another form of “10x”—different skills, sacrifices, and impacts.

Key Insight:

• “You can absolutely do it because you have already 10x several times in your life... leverage the things that you did, the way you evolved, your paradigms, your commitment, your follow through—leverage those in what you're trying to accomplish with your business.” (Kip Kent, 10:10)

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3. Application for BNI Members

[10:05 - 11:36]

• Prompt for Listeners: “Look back in your own life and be reflective... leverage those [personal 10x] in what you're trying to accomplish with your business. Once you get out of your own way and realize you really can do it, then it's just a matter of deliberate choice and doing the things that are required to 10x in your business.” (Kip Kent, 10:10)
• Personal & Professional Interconnection:
  • Ivan discusses how working on his book “Who’s In Your Room” helped him “10x” his quality of life and business growth by carefully choosing his inner circle.

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4. Choosing Deliberately: Purposeful Sailing or Scaling

[12:02 - 12:47]

• Advice:
  • “You can't really scale without it being a deliberate choice. I do recommend that if you're going to sail, make sure that you are doing that on purpose.” (Kip Kent, 12:12)
• Key Distinction:
  • “The ceiling for sailing is your personal capacity. The potential for scaling is limited only by your generosity and your investment in others.” (Kip Kent, 12:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sailing is about a lifestyle business that ultimately creates freedom for the owner.”
  Kip Kent, 04:15

• “Once they walk away, that's kind of... that's the key.”
  Ivan Misner, 04:23

• “Scaling or legacy business... is a very intentional process... it's built to thrive beyond the owner.”
  Kip Kent, 04:41

• “You can absolutely do it because you have already 10x several times in your life and I believe this about literally every person.”
  Kip Kent, 07:58

• “The ceiling for sailing is your personal capacity. The potential for scaling is limited only by your generosity and your investment in others.”
  Kip Kent, 12:40

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Recommended Resources & Books

[12:47]

• Who's In Your Room by Ivan Misner
• The Science of Scaling by Benjamin Hardy

“These two will go a long way toward helping you decide and purposefully scale.” (Kip Kent, 12:47)

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Segment Timestamps

• Opening & Guest Introduction – 00:00–02:33
• Sailing vs. Scaling Explained – 02:33–07:35
• The “10x Jump” Mindset – 07:35–10:54
• Personal Reflection and Application – 10:54–12:02
• Deliberate Choice & Book Recommendations – 12:02–13:07

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Summary Takeaways

The episode contrasts the “sailing” lifestyle business—offering owner freedom but limited transferability—with the “scaling” legacy business, which can endure beyond the founder through systems and people. Both paths require intentionality, but scaling especially demands deliberate choices and investment in others. Reflecting on past personal growth moments (“10x jumps”) can inspire business owners to push past self-imposed limits and pursue greater impact. Listeners are encouraged to choose their path purposefully and leverage resources to build lasting value.

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Transcript

[A]

Episode number 970, sailing or scaling.

[B]

You're listening to the official B and I podcast with BNI Founder and Chief Visionary Officer, Dr. Ivan Meisner. Stay tuned for networking and referral marketing tips from the man who's been called the father of modern networking, along with suggestions and insights into getting the most from your membership in the world's largest networking organization, bni.

[A]

Hello everybody and welcome back to the official BNI Podcast Guest. I'm Priscilla Rice and I'm coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, California. And I'm joined on the phone today by the founder and the Chief visionary officer of BNI, Dr. Ivan Meisner. Hello, Ivan, how are you and where are you?

[C]

I am doing great, Priscilla. And I am at a Transformational Leadership Council meeting. I've talked about TLC a lot in many of the podcasts. It's an organization started by Jack Canfield and I and I believe that everyone needs to be part of various networks. And TLC is my knowledge network that I've been a member of now for almost 20 years.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

In that organization. So I'm stepping down from the Board of Directors this year. So I've been on the board for 14 years and I'm just going to be a regular member after. After 14 years of being on the board.

[A]

Oh, that'll be, that'll be a relief maybe.

[C]

Yeah, it will be a little bit of a relaxing time for my visits there. I've got a guest on today. He's been on once before. Kip Kent is. He was on podcast number 563. Kip is the Executive Director and owner of BNI Utah south and North Texas. He's a. He was a BNI member since 2005. He has scaled his Utah south region to be the highest penetrated BNI region in the U.S. kip is a three time U.S. franchise Region of the Year recipient, two time executive director of the Year. He's a recipient of the Founders Award, the CEO Award, the National Director's Award, and he has served two terms as the Chair of the Franchise Advisory Board and was a keynote speaker at the recent U.S. and Canadian National Conference in Orlando. Which is the reason he is on this because I heard him do a presentation called Sailing or Scaling Building a Lifestyle Business or a Legacy Business. Love the concept, Chip. And welcome to the BNI podcast again.

[D]

Thank you, Ivan. I appreciate it and I'm happy to be here.

[C]

So talk about a sailing lifestyle business versus a scaling legacy business.

[D]

Okay, yeah, happy to. And let's just start with sailing Right. A lifestyle business. That's my metaphor for a lifestyle business.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

It's typically designed around the owner's desired lifestyle. As the name kind of implies, freedom is the objective. So we are still talking about a quality business, a business that grows. It grows intentionally, but the founder remains at the helm. To continue with the sailing metaphor, the business revolves around the owners, their relationships, their expertise, their decision making, their personal effort and their capacity. But growth could be limited a little by that personal capacity, their own time, their energy, the complexity that they themselves can handle. And let me just clarify, it could be them and a small team of people. It's not necessarily only the solopreneur. It could also be a little limited by their reluctance to take the risk, to trust and invest in others. Business slows if they step away, and it should be a conscious choice, and it still can be a great business for the right entrepreneur. So the bottom line is sailing is about a lifestyle business that ultimately creates freedom for the owner.

[C]

But they, as long as they are active in it and once they walk away, that's kind of. That's the key.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And it's not very salable or it's not nearly as saleable as the scaling, which is what you're going to talk about next.

[D]

Exactly.

[C]

So what is scaling in a business?

[D]

So scaling or legacy business, first of all, it's a very intentional process. Like you can potentially sail, or at least reasonably sail by default, even a little bit by accident, but you cannot scale without scaling intentionally. It's a very intentional process. Business becomes larger than the original founder, owner. It's built to thrive beyond the owner. So we're talking about it being powered by systems, people, people beyond the owner, leadership, culture, repeatable processes. Growth is no longer constrained by one person. And ultimately the vision is that it creates greater impact, greater enterprise value, greater opportunity for more than just the owner. Less founder dependence, multi generational.

[C]

Yeah, longevity. That's important.

[D]

Yes, that's really the key. Longevity.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

So it's legacy beyond the owner. And leaders, you know, replace dependence on the founder. Right. So no more is it dependent solely on the founder?

[C]

On the founder, yeah. So, you know, I've talked about scaling a lot and I've talked a few times about a book I'm working on called Garage to Global. And so when we talk about scaling, I want the members to hear this. It doesn't have to be global scaling. It could be scaling your business right there in your city. It could be scaling it regionally. It could be scaling it in a state or province, national, or it could be global. So scaling is really kind of up to you and your, your goals. But scaling is leaving a legacy business as opposed to selling, which, you know, I have a good friend who just sailed until he just couldn't sail anymore. And unfortunately he sailed his business right into the water and sunk and he was not able to then sell. And he had an amazing legacy, would have, could have left an amazing legacy, but didn't. And so I vote for the scaling version, even if it's not scaling national or global.

[D]

And I love what you said about it. It doesn't need to be global. The question is, will it live beyond you? Will it impact lives whether it's local or regional or at whatever level, is it going to survive you and continue to impact lives long past your involvement in the business?

[C]

All right, so you talk about leveraging personal 10x jumps in your life. I love this material. And I'm going to be meeting, I think, the author of that material transformational Leadership Council meeting. I'm headed to talk a little bit about that.

[D]

Yeah. So people often ask me, just as a, as a business coach or as a fellow entrepreneur, how can I have a 10x jump in my business or really scale my business if I've never done it before? And I introduced this concept in, in Orlando in my keynote. You can absolutely do it because you have already 10x several times in your life and I believe this about literally every person, things that you've gone through that you've, you know, evolved beyond as personal 10x junks. And I, I shared a little bit in Orlando about when I went into the military. You know, I was a young 18 year old. What had I ever really done in my life, you know, I'm a high school graduate, etc. And so I, I went into the military and listen, I wasn't making much money, so which still was probably a 10x jump in my income because I was making nothing in high school. But it wasn't some big sum of money, but my growth and as a human being, physically, my growth, having gone through basic training and really getting in shape, my growth in terms of discipline, execution, leadership, it was at least a 10x personal jump for me in my life. And it did become the foundation for other 10x jumps down the road in other parts of my life. I've talked a little bit about my religious service for my church over in England and how that was totally different than what I did in the military and the level of sacrifice and giving and service, the spiritual growth for me personally, the service rendered to other people on a completely volunteer basis for two years, i10x Again, in a completely different way, different thing.

[C]

So can you give at least one suggestion for BNI members to 10x their business?

[D]

Yeah. So I would suggest that you look back in your own life and be reflective about this. When did you make big jumps in your heart, in your mind, in your paradigms, in your growth as a person? Not necessarily financial leverage, the things that you did, the way that you evolved, your paradigms, your commitment, your follow through leverage, those in what you're trying to accomplish with your business. Once you get out of your own way and you realize you really can do it, then it's just a matter of deliberate choice and doing the things that are required to 10x in your business.

[C]

Yeah. So I think one of the things that you're pointing out that I think is interesting is that you can 10x multiply your success or what you're looking for 10 times. Not just in business, but in personal life. And they are interrelated. And for me, when I started working on the book who's in your room? I 10x'd my life absolutely. Because I really put my wrapped my brain around my values and wrapped my brain around the whole idea of the people that I surround myself with. And when I did that personally, it substantially increased the, the lifestyle that I had because I was surrounding myself with the right people. But also the business continued to grow.

[D]

I love that. And by the way, just a little FYI, who's in your room profoundly impacted my life because when I first read it, I was at a point where I was literally sailing, not scaling. And I realized I'm going to have to have the right people in my room, whether it's on my direct team or my expanded network outside of my team. So thank you for that book.

[C]

Yeah, I love hearing that from people. Thank you. We're out of time. Can give me a real short answer on why it's important to choose purposefully whether to sail or scale.

[D]

Well, again, you can't really scale without it being a deliberate choice. I do recommend that if you're going to sail, make sure that you are doing that on purpose. Purpose. And it's not just born of I'm not sure how to scale. Right. No, you're going to sail, sail deliberately. I'll leave you with just a little quote and maybe a couple book recommendations. The ceiling for sailing is your personal capacity. The potential for scaling is limited only by your generosity and your investment in others. If you could read only two books that would help you scale your business. Please read who's in your Room by Ivan Meisner and the Science of Scaling by Benjamin Hardy. Those two will go a long way toward helping you decide and purposefully scale.

[C]

I'm looking forward to meeting Benjamin later next month. Actually, this month I'm looking forward to seeing him. For anyone interested in more information on Kip, go to bniutahsouth.com or bninorthtexas.com Kip, thank you so much for being on BNI Podcast again.

[D]

Thank you, Ivan.

[C]

Over to you, Priscilla.

[A]

Okay, great. Now I understand the title. Thank you so much for that real interesting information. This podcast is sponsored by MeisnerAudioProGrams.com and these audio programs will provide you with the tools and and the inspiration to powerfully enhance your B and I experience. So check out the great material that's available to [e-mail] and then use the promo code IVAN5O for 50% off of everything. All of the proceeds go to the B and I Foundation. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice. We look forward to having you join us again next week for another exciting episode of the official BNI podcast.