Podcast Summary

Overview

Podcast: The Official SaaStr Podcast: SaaS | Founders | Investors
Episode: SaaStr 780: From Outbound to Channel Partnerships: Your Burning Sales Questions Answered by SaaStr CEO and Founder Jason Lemkin
Host: Jason Lemkin
Release Date: December 13, 2024

In this engaging AMA-style episode, SaaStr founder Jason Lemkin fields audience questions ranging from the future of outbound sales in an AI-driven era to finding product-market fit, building effective channel partnerships, and the right order for hiring startup leaders. With characteristic candor, real-world anecdotes, and actionable frameworks, Jason explores what’s really changing in SaaS sales, early-stage growth, and scaling teams—while highlighting the importance of inclusion, resilience, and learning from industry leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Outbound Sales in SaaS (00:01 – 19:59)

• Outbound "Is Dead"—Sort Of

  • Classic outbound sales—high-volume, generic cold emails—are largely ineffective in 2024.
  • AI-powered automation now generates massive email volume, but even these are only marginally better than poor human outreach.
  • “We’re all getting a trillion AI emails and they’re terrible, but they’re actually better than the ones the humans sent.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 00:01)

• What Still Works in Outbound

  • Highly personalized, relevant, and timely emails can still break through—especially if tied to a buyer’s urgent problem.
  • “The point of outbound is not to get…how many folks they can get on the phone…Make that email so good, then slow it down… Would I buy my product based on this email?”
    (Jason Lemkin, 16:30)

• Finding Your First 30 Customers

  • Early-stage founders should identify their "100 dream customers" and craft individualized outreach based on deep research.
  • “Spend an hour each writing them the email… I can solve this for you today and if you’re busy, I will do all the onboarding for you. Are you interested?”
    (Jason Lemkin, 10:00)

• Cold Email Works—But Only If You’re Great

  • Jason highlights that his most successful investments stemmed from exceptional cold emails, not boilerplate pitches. He shares stories about investing in Pipedrive, Algolia, Talkdesk, Greenhouse, and others off the strength of incisive, founder-written cold emails.

2. Metrics and Trends from SaaStr Annual Attendance (03:00 – 10:30)

• Conference as SaaS Pulse Check
  • Attendance up slightly (103% of last year), but notable shifts in mix:
    • Founders/CEOs and C-level execs up (150%).
    • International attendees now a majority.
    • VC attendance down 40% from 2022, highlighting lingering caution despite headlines about a "hot" venture market.
  • “VC is interesting. A little worried about the next generation and I think we all have to do more on inclusion. Those are my learnings for this year.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 09:50)

3. Diversity and Inclusion in SaaS Is Slipping (10:35 – 15:30)

• Missed Inclusion Goals

  • 2024 was the first year Saastr missed its ambitious attendee inclusion targets, despite sustained focus and funding.
  • Jason observes a general cooling in tech’s commitment to diversity compared to 2020.
  • “I'm bummed that this is the first year we missed that goal and I'm going to try harder next year. But… I don't know how much more I could do. I don't know how many more emails I can send.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 14:30)
  • Only one tech leader—Dharmesh Shah of HubSpot—offered support for next year’s inclusion program.

• Resilience Through Diversity

  • Jason describes his founding team’s success and resilience as the product of radical diversity in background and experience.

4. Scaling Beyond $1M ARR—Don’t Chase Shiny Pennies (20:03 – 23:30)

• Stay Focused on Core Enterprise ICP

  • When growth slows after $1M ARR, avoid the “shiny object syndrome” (e.g., pivoting to PLG or mass-market strategies too early).
  • There’s almost always more runway with your initial customer segment.
  • “I would atomize it and get it to 5, 100 and not chase the shiny penny… Our goal is 2 million.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 21:04)

• Inspire Your Team with Visible, Attainable Goals

  • Use simple systems to visibly track progress (e.g., moving a ‘superhero’ marker up the revenue curve on the wall).
  • Focus your team on the next clear milestone.

• Compounding Growth Is the Magic

  • Show the power of steady (even if unspectacular) annual growth—compounding gets you to meaningful numbers, even if progress seems slow day-to-day.
  • “If we just grow 60% a year... now let’s look what the work would take… we would go 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 to 16…”
    (Jason Lemkin, 22:45)

5. Channel Partnerships: The Undervalued Growth Lever (23:30 – 35:30)

• Channel & Partner Programs as Moat

  • Many SaaS leaders underestimate channel sales—until a competitor dominates the partner ecosystem (agencies, consultancies, etc.).
  • Real-world moats: 40-45%+ revenue from partners at HubSpot, Shopify, Klaviyo. Accenture and other consultancies “pick one” and drive serious enterprise volume.
  • “Way too many founders learn the direct motion and then just get their ass kicked when their competitors figure out the channel and partner strategy.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 24:50)

• Mechanics of Effective Channel Strategy

  • Must dedicate a full team—one founder or AE will get “boxed out” when a competitor invests in relationship-building.
  • Hire experienced BD/channel leaders, run 200+ partner events a month if needed, always show up (“cookie teams!”).
  • “You have to have a team to do partnerships and channels…if you don’t have full-time backing up those BD relationships, you’re wasting all your founder energy.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 29:50)

• Learn from the Best—Don’t Reinvent

  • Study the leading players’ partner/channel motions in your segment, and don’t wait too long to implement.

6. Hiring in Early SaaS: VP Marketing vs VP Sales vs VP Product (35:31 – close)

• Hiring Sequence for Early-Stage Startups

  • Sequence: VP Marketing at ~$20k MRR, VP Sales once you have 2 reps reliably hitting quota, VP Product after $2M+ ARR or when product complexity demands it.
  • “The right sequence is: VP Marketing, VP Sales, VP of Product. I’ll tell you why…But the real answer…if you meet someone and you just know this person is 100 times better…find the money. Take it out of your own pocket as a founder. Find them.”
    (Jason Lemkin, 36:50)

• What Makes a World-Class VP of Product?

  • Many founders have never personally worked with a truly game-changing VP Product (one who is hyper-customer-centric, can manage complexity, and has real engineering and go-to-market experience).
  • Delaying this hire often leads to missed opportunities and mistakes as products get complicated.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Classic outbound is dead. The vendors are great because they're much more sophisticated platforms, but that old playbook of just load up a database with the same freaking email is dead.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 00:01)

• “No one asks, is this email good enough to sell the company on its own? How many SDR emails have folks ever gotten in the room where you would buy the product based on the email alone? It's one a quarter, if you’re lucky, because they're all crappy.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 15:20)

• “In inclusion… I'm disappointed on many levels that despite 10,000 tweets, probably a half-million or more invested, that goal we didn’t achieve—even though we've achieved it since 2017.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 14:20)

• “If you have 25–50 [enterprise customers]…what are the odds you can get to 50–100? I think very high. That’s what you should do.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 21:04)

• “Way too many founders learn the direct motion and then just get their ass kicked when their competitors figure out the channel and partner strategy…If you get boxed out because your competitor owns a channel or partner, sometimes it's almost game over.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 24:50)

• “The right sequence is: VP Marketing, VP Sales, VP of Product. I’ll tell you why…But the real answer…if you meet someone and you just know this person is 100 times better…find the money. Take it out of your own pocket as a founder. Find them.”
  (Jason Lemkin, 36:50)

Timestamps to Key Segments

• 00:01 – 08:00: Outbound sales in the age of AI; what still works in modern SaaS outbound
• 08:00 – 15:30: SaaStr event attendance trends, the pulse of SaaS, and missed inclusion goals
• 15:30 – 20:00: AMA: How to get your first 30 customers; cold email tactics and stories
• 20:00 – 23:30: Scaling from $1M to $2M to $10M ARR; why not to chase shiny pennies
• 23:30 – 35:30: The strategic power of channel partnerships; mechanics, pitfalls, and pattern recognition
• 35:31 – end: Early SaaS team building and first executive hires: marketing vs sales vs product

Episode Tone and Style

Jason Lemkin’s tone is direct, energetic, and motivational, blending hard-won wisdom with humor and candor. His style is story-driven, making the advice both memorable and actionable—for new founders and experienced SaaS operators alike.

Summary prepared for SaaS founders, leaders, and operators who want an unvarnished, actionable look into scaling sales, partnerships, and teams in the modern SaaS world.