← The Overwhelmed Brain
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- [00:00]
A
These are my personal opinions. Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health and well being.
- [00:11]
Welcome to the show. I'm glad you made it. This is an episode that is going to highlight what I don't know about parenting because I've never been one. I've been a stepdad, but only when I entered Asha's life when her child was a young teen. And so that's not really being a stepdad because his other father was in the picture. And so I never really learned what it was like to be a parent. So I ended up studying everything I could about relationships in general throughout my life. And this is where we are. And sometimes I think I've had like maybe two or three episodes on how to work with kids, how to deal with kids, even though I don't really like that expression, and how to help them when your partner or ex partner is toxic. I've had episodes on that. You can actually go to TheOverwhelmedBrain.com and type in kid or child and you will find episodes where I talked about that. That doesn't mean I'm the expert. It just means I know relationships enough to maybe help relate to your young or adult children and maybe they help you. And maybe this episode will be one of those episodes where maybe it helps. But I say all this stuff as a disclaimer that I have never had a child and raised a child myself. So everything I say you can throw out the window. And I'm going to say it anyway because I know relationships enough to at least maybe give you some guidance if you're looking for it, if you're a parent or if you know someone who's a parent and they are having trouble with their child. And even if these are good suggestions, they still may not be perfect for the situation they're in. There's a lot of background and a lot of history in a family that can build up and be complex. So complex that even the best parental advice or suggestion will lead somebody in a direction that doesn't work or fails miserably. And so instead of delaying this anymore, I'm going to get right into, if I can say it, today's message. This person wrote, I stumbled onto your page at 2am I am essentially you in my own story before you got things figured out. And I think she's saying that I grew up in a dysfunctional home. I had an alcoholic stepfather. I grew up being emotionally abusive with my other partners because the only way I learned how to act in relationships was through the observation and role modeling that my parents did when I was younger. And so all my observations led me to believe that this is how you're supposed to act in a relationship. And so I brought toxic behaviors into my relationships. And then after a divorce, I figured out, oh, I'm the common denominator for all my problems and all my relationship failures, so I should change that about myself. I'm very much simplifying exactly everything I went through, because there was a lot of heartache, there was a lot of pain. And I'm not talking about just me. I'm talking about everyone that was in my life, at least as an intimate partner, that had to deal with my inability to cope. Inability to cope with the challenges in any relationship. And after my divorce, I finally said, oh, I gotta stop. I gotta stop being in relationships. I gotta deal with myself. I gotta heal myself. I gotta work on this stuff. And so that's what I did for the next. I still working on. I was always working on this stuff. So I've been doing it for at least 15 years now. Been working and working and working on myself. And of course, I learned a lot along the way because I got certified in life coaching, and I've been studying psychology for at least another 20 years before that. And so I had all the knowledge. I just didn't. I wasn't applying it to myself, or at least I didn't realize I needed it until, you know, the finally got the message. I got the message that I'm the problem. So I admitted it. I admitted to myself, I'm the problem. I need to work on this. And so I did, and I kept working on it. And I didn't get into another relationship until I felt I was ready and wasn't going to be toxic or dysfunctional because I didn't want to bring that into the relationship. I wanted to bring a healed, healthy, happy self into a relationship. And that's where I am today. Been here with Asha for at least. What. Where are we? 2014-2025. So over 11 years now, and we're married. And it's great. And it's the best relationship of my life and hopefully the last relationship of my life. I don't see it going anywhere but in a good, positive direction because that's where it's been going. That's the trend. Or that that has been the trend for us. And I love it. She loves it. And we still argue, we still have disagreements, so there are things that we have to work out. But as I said, in other episodes, our arguments are very productive. We listen, we open our ears, and when she's talking, I stop, I listen, and then I talk or talk loudly and she talks or talks loudly, but we both listen. And when we hear something that is correct, we say, oh, yes, you're right, or oh, that's a good point. We don't stick to our guns. We listen, but we still have our own arguments. We still believe that we're right until something is said that proves that that's not true or we misunderstood something and now it's clear. And so that's why I call them productive arguments. That we actually listen while we argue and then we usually reach a resolution. Always. We actually always reach a resolution and one of us apologizes, or both of us apologize and we move on. And because we allow each other to speak, we give each other that safe space to speak their mind. It. It feels safe to be our true selves and say anything that we need to say because it's on our mind and we need to get it out or it's in our heart or it's in our system and we just need to vent and say, you did this to me.
- [07:01]
It never really goes that direction. But of course we have arguments and that's. It's part of a. Actually a part of a healthy relationship to allow the other person to be themselves. And so we're going to get into some of that with what I'm talking about today, but I'm going to finish with this person's. I just went off on the sidetrack here, but I want to finish what this person has written. She said I was like you. And that was why I went on to the other story there. But before you got things figured out, and I'm desperately trying to get myself together, parenting was not remotely on my radar, but my husband wanted kids. It's a long, convoluted story. At any rate. I have three sons who need love and I don't know how to raise or love them properly. My own childhood was a disaster. It's tough to be able to see all the problems in your own attempts at parenting. But I have no idea how to stop it all from happening. Because, you know, when you're the problem, how do you get out of that cycle? It's like watching a slow motion train wreck, panic inducing. I'd appreciate any advice on navigating this process so I don't screw them up. How do I build trust? How do I make sure they feel safe? How do I give them strong Morals and values and confidence. What should they actually know for life? I mean, I've got nothing, but I know I'm screwing this up because of my unhealthy state. Thanks for sharing that. It's very candid. It's very raw. It's very vulnerable for you to come on here and say, I'm terrible at this. I know I'm dysfunctional and I'm putting words in your mouth here, but I'm all these things and I don't want to screw them up. And first of all, congratulations for being ahead of many parents out there who don't think they need to change anything. I'm not talking about the people who listen to this show. I'm talking about the parents that we've all seen that do things or say things or handle their kids in ways that we know are gonna mess them up. They may not mess them up, but, you know, we look at it and go, oh, my God, that poor kid. That poor kid has to deal with that parent or that caregiver. And so congratulations for being ahead of those parents who refuse to see that anything they're doing is wrong or hurtful or dysfunctional. You're already ahead of the game, so pat yourself on the back. I give you permission to do that. Not that you need my permission, because you're aware of yourself. You're self aware. You're like AI in the sci Fi movies. AI became self aware and destroyed the planet. No, that's not going to be you. When we become self. Aware, when humans become self aware, our goal is to improve ourselves because we are aware of our faults, our dysfunctions, our malfunctions, our problems, the problems we have, our toxic behaviors. Oh, you know when I say this thing to my partner or I say this thing to my brother, or I said this thing to my brother or whatever, that was really hurtful and I should have said something else. We become self aware of our own behaviors. And when that happens, that is our opportunity to grow. And this is what you're doing. You're taking this opportunity to grow. So step one, self awareness. This is what you've done. Oh, I'm doing these things. I don't want to screw up my kids. You're not going to if you're self aware because you're self aware and your kids will learn from you because you're self aware. Even if you don't say, hey, kids, I'm self aware, or whatever term you want to use. I'm aware of my own behaviors. And sometimes I don't show up in the healthiest way. It's not like you're going to say that to your kids, but there's a series of course corrections that you will make in your life that they will notice as you work on yourself. Hey, mom used to be this way and now she's not. That's weird. She used to yell at me when I was late for late getting up and now she doesn't. So those kinds of course corrections will be noticed even if you don't have to say anything. Even if they're very young, they get noticed and they get absorbed into their mental and emotional state. They notice things. They are observant and reactive and proactive. They are all kinds of things at once because they're kids, depending on how young they are. But the younger they are, the more everything is at the forefront and they're doing everything at once. At least that's my observation of them and other kids, obviously. And when I witness this, I see that children are basically trying to figure out how to behave in the world. A brand new world to them. And because it's so brand new, they are doing everything that they believe they're supposed to do. And if we aren't there to guide them or role model for them, that is the challenge that they might face. They might become adult very fast. If somebody wasn't there to guide them or somebody was there to neglect them. I don't recommend that at all. Neglect leads to some children becoming adult faster or becoming more mature faster. Faster than their childhood, which may cause them to lose some of their childhood. I'm sure some people relate. Some people had to become caregivers for their parents. Or maybe they had a mom that always relied on their children to comfort her and nurture her or dad, comfort him and nurture him. Not giving the children a chance to be children. But there's a whole lot of stuff I could talk about that I'm not qualified to talk about. So I'm not going to get into that. I'm going to get into what I have observed and studied about relationships. And hopefully this will help this person who wrote and I've got a little list here I'm going to go through. The first item is what you do in challenging situations is either what they will do or won't do. I'm going to use my own parents as an example, probably several times. But what my mom did in challenging situations, usually with my stepfather, is what I chose to do and what my stepfather did because my stepfather was my, basically my dad Most of my life, what my stepfather did is what I chose not to do. With a vengeance, with extremity, meaning he drank himself into oblivion and became drunk every night. I wanted nothing to do with drugs or alcohol after I saw that. That sounds like a good, healthy path to take. Yes, but I pushed it to the extreme and became judgmental and critical of those who did the same, who drank or smoked or whatever. I became highly judgmental and critical one of my dysfunctions and emotionally abusive behaviors in my earlier relationships. Luckily, I started healing from that in my early 20s, so I didn't carry it on into my life throughout life. But my point is, our parents, usually when they do something that's either dysfunctional or harmful, we're either going to follow their path or go in the extreme opposite direction. You know, this is in many cases, I'm not going to say in all cases, there are always exceptions, but this is what I've witnessed a lot, including my own life, including the life of my siblings and the people I've known throughout life, is they'll either follow the behaviors of one or resist and go in the opposite direction of the behaviors of one. With my mom, she was a people pleaser, so I became a people pleaser. My mom was a people pleaser because she didn't want to provoke the behavior of her alcoholic husband, which is very abusive. And so I became a people pleaser for the same reason when I was living at home, but that also became a dysfunction in my life. So what you do in a challenging situation is either what your child will do or won't do. Again, it's just a philosophy. It's not a set in stone. But I think it's good to remember what you do or what your partner does. If they're in your life, what the other parent does is either going to be what they do or what they don't do. All right, let me get to the next one, which is supporting the direction they're taking usually works better than supporting the direction you want them to take. Some of this might be Parenting 101, so forgive me, but if you support the direction they're taking as opposed to supporting the direction that you want them to take, you will either get rebellious behavior or not. So if you support the direction they want to take, you want them to be a doctor, and they're still playing with crayons at, I don't know, 11, 12, 13 years old. I don't know what the age is. I mean, when do we stop playing with crayons? I Think I was playing with them for, I don't know until I was 18. And if you decide that they should stop playing with crayons and you want to push them into being a doctor or lawyer or whatever, a barista, whatever you want them to be, if you push them in the direction that they don't feel like going, you might get more rebellious behavior. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a conversation saying, you know, hey, you know, this is a good field to go in. Would you like to go in that? Does that interest you at all? I'm not saying you shouldn't have those kinds of conversations. I'm just saying if they seem to be going in a certain direction and you are trying to push them in the other direction.
- [16:44]
I talked to my wife, and she says, when my dad said this, I wanted to do the opposite, or I did the opposite. Basically, what she did. Every time my dad said this, I did the opposite. I became rebellious because he kept pushing me in the direction that he wanted me to go. And so she went in her own direction. And even when she went in her own direction and he wasn't fighting it, but. But he wasn't necessarily complimenting her and supporting her in that path and might even say certain things. God, I hope he never listens to the show. But he might say certain things that might make her feel like the direction she's going was going to be a failure. She felt like going in that direction she was going to be a failure. So she had to fight it and resist it in herself. She had this inner conflict in herself where she struggled to be successful in certain areas of life because of his words telling her that she may not want to go in that direction. And so that really caused a problem for her. So she struggled a lot of her life going in the direction that she wanted, but didn't feel the support. Having his words roll around in her head her whole life until. Until the point where she realized that he didn't know what he was talking about and she was going to go in that direction anyway. And that's when it finally, you know, that's when she finally released it. She finally released it so she could move on and heal inside herself. So that didn't hold her back anymore. And so she didn't get the support for the direction she was going. She gets it now. They get along much better now. But in the past, she didn't feel that support, and that caused her to have this internal struggle. So supporting the direction they're taking usually Works better than supporting the direction you want them to take. Yes, you might want them to be more successful and make more money and be more admired or whatever, be more respected. And they may just want to do other things with their life. And I believe that when you support the path they want to take, they'll find their way. So if that doesn't vibe with you, if you don't like that, again, throw this out the window. I'm just sharing this as a way to build a strong relationship with your children or anyone in your life. That when you support. I mean, this is very similar to how I define love. When you support a person's decisions, the decisions that make them happy, you're supporting their path to happiness. When you support someone's path to happiness, at least what they believe will make them happy, that's how you show love. So I apply that to children as well. I may be wrong, but I think it's a healthier approach than some that I've seen. So there's that one. I'm going to give you the next one which is giving them a non judgmental space to share their challenges and mistakes which will build trust and let them know that they're not alone. This means when they come to you and they say I did something and I'm afraid you're going to be mad at me, wouldn't that be nice if they did that? But let's just say they did that. You don't say, oh, what's wrong? You say, go ahead and share, you know, tell me what's going on. You know, many of these are going to apply to all of our relationships. Giving somebody a non judgmental space to share what's going on in their life, to share their mistakes helps to build trust and lets them know they're not alone. Because have you ever gone to somebody and said, yeah, I did this and they got angry at you and they yelled at you and you were just telling them it was a mistake and you didn't mean to and you already feel bad enough and they didn't care and they're just so angry at you. How often do you feel like going back to them and sharing something else? I mean, when you think about it that way, that's how I think about kids. Kids will probably not want to come back and they'll learn to lie because every time they've told you the truth, you get angry. So if that's happening, I believe that kids will eventually grow to the point where it's just not better to tell it's just better to hold it in, to lie. And that's. That's tough because kids are going to do things that they shouldn't be lying about and that you should know about. Like the time that I think I was 4, that I took a lighter and I lit a poster on fire on the back of the bathroom door. It was a. Some promotion. What was it? It was like a novelty poster. That's what it was, this novelty poster. It had my stepfather's name on it. It was some bullfighting thing. And I think. I guess he had it made. He wasn't a bullfighter, but he had it made. Or he saw his name on it and he bought it, whatever. And I thought it would look so cool if the edges were burnt, like an old scroll. And so I took a lighter and I just burnt the edges just a little bit. And before you know it, the thing was on fire. And I said, oh, crap. And I shut the door. I mean, I got out of the bathroom and I shut the door and I pretended nothing was wrong. And my mom, she comes in the kitchen. The bathroom was off the kitchen, I think. And she said, what's that smell? What's going on? And I think she saw the smoke and she opened the door. And I forget how she put it out, but she did put it out. I didn't burn the house down. Thank God. I didn't burn the house down. And I don't remember if I got punished, but I do remember that incident very well because I remember just feeling terrible, like, oh, I just lit a poster on fire. This is going to go bad. I'll just hide it. Funny enough, I did the same thing about a window a few years later, but I tried to hide it and it didn't work. She found out and took care of things. So in that sense, it wouldn't be smart for a child to lie that something is on fire and you should take care of it. Which is why I fully endorse a parent giving a child a safe space to communicate. And that means if they have something to tell you, that will definitely make you upset. You broke my what? You know, if you're upset, then they may be afraid to communicate that later. And when that happens, they may develop lying and hiding and things like that. And that's not good. And I'm not saying that this is perfect. If you do this and you allow them that safe space, they may still not want to because of something else I'm going to talk about in a moment, but at least they know it's safe to tell you, mostly safe to tell you that something they did requires attention or they need to tell you something they did because you're going to find out anyway, whatever it is. And the safer they feel to tell you something, the more likely they'll tell you something. They may still hide it, but the more likely they'll tell you something. Which is why I'm a proponent of giving them that safe space. And there's also a benefit. Another benefit to this is if anybody ever does something to them and tells them not to tell you. And there are many things I'm talking about here, but one of them is CSA child sexual abuse. Because what ends up happening with children who are in a dangerous situation with a person like that, that person is going to tell them, don't tell, don't tell your parents, don't tell anyone. They might even threaten them. Don't, don't tell them or I'll kill them. I'm just being real here. This is what happens. Don't tell them or I'll hurt your mom or dad or whatever. And so keeping an open, honest, transparent line of communication with your children, in my opinion is essential. Allowing them the safe space to share things. You know, if I had a child, I'm thinking about this. If I had a child, I'd probably say if anybody ever tells you to keep a secret from me, they, that is probably a dangerous person. Even if they're acting nice because if they tell you to keep secrets from your mommy or daddy, then they can't be trusted. And so that kind of conversation I think I would have with my child if I had a child. And so anyway, that is the point of giving them that non judgmental space to share so that they feel they can and they feel more open to it even if they've done something wrong. The next thing is entering their model of the world can also help them feel not alone. They can help to show them that you are there as a support system. And what I mean by entering someone's model of the world is being in the space with them, it's sort of empathy, it's sort of putting their shoes on in a metaphorical sense and being there with them. So if your child has a math problem and they're frustrated and they're angry, I can't do this, I can't do this. Instead of saying something like, yes, you can, which is supportive and absolutely probably something I would do, entering their model of the world might look like I can understand why this is making you angry. It's making me angry too, just looking at it. I can't believe that they give you these hard problems. It's so hard. What am I doing? I'm entering their space. I'm entering their reality and I'm not going to leave them there, of course, but I'm getting into the same space that they're in so that they don't feel alone, so that they don't feel so isolated, like I'm the dumbest one on the planet because I can't figure it out. But if you're with them, oh my God, this is so hard. You're right, this would make me angry too. So you enter the model of the world and the next step is to lead them to a better reality. The leading part is where you take them from that reality and help them get into a healthier, more productive reality, a more resourceful reality. I can't believe they make these math problems so hard. So let's figure it out.
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That's a lead out. You're leading them out of a place of frustration and you're with them in that place of frustration. And now we're going to work on this together and get out of that challenge. So you connect with them where they are entering their model of the world and then you lead them to a reality that is much healthier and more beneficial. And more resourceful. And more resourceful might mean. Let's look this up. Let's figure this out. Let's get a resource. Let's look at the book. What does the book say? Let's watch a video on how to solve this math problem. There are all kinds of ways to access resources, especially nowadays, you know, at least with a math problem. I mean, I know there are other issues, but this is what you do with almost any issue. I'm having relationship problems and I can't stand when they raise their voice at me. Instead of saying, well, you should leave that person. You could say, wow, that sounds very frustrating. If that happened to me, I would feel the same way. Suddenly they're not alone. Suddenly they feel like you understand. Thank you for understanding instead of telling me what to do. Because I believe I know everything. That's the child talking. Typically, I believe I know everything. And they're not really saying that, but they feel it and they think it. Many of them do, not all of them, but the older they get, the more they tend to go in that direction. I know everything. I know exactly how to handle this. But they often don't because they haven't learned a Lot of life experience yet. And they have this false sense of understanding of the world like I did. Like maybe you did. And so what happens is they end up frustrating themselves because they think they know what they're doing and they don't. So it's helpful to have somebody else that's in that same space with them entering their model of the world so you can lead them to a more productive reality. All right, the next one is never say don't cry or don't be mad. Instead, ask questions like, why are you crying? Why are you mad? Or if you know why they're mad or crying and you don't think they should be, again, enter their model of the world and bring them into yours. I'd be mad too if I were you. That allows somebody to express their emotions and help those emotions come out. Instead of being repressed. Repressed emotions can lead to dysfunction later on in life. So saying things like don't cry or don't be mad actually opens the door to them repressing or stuffing down those emotions. So when you ask questions, why are you crying? Or what are you mad at? You know, those kinds of questions, they're not accusatory, they're not putting them down. For them having those emotions, what you're doing is just inquiring. You're being curious, you're trying to help them solve a problem or a challenge. They may not feel that way at the moment, they might just be in that space. But the approach I think is important. Why are you crying? What's going on? I think that's a lot better than don't cry. Just my opinion from a non parental point of view, but I think that is a better approach. Next one, we'll thank Gandhi for be the change you want to see in your kids. I think Gandhi has it right. Though his original words weren't quite so eloquently polished. They were closer to if we want to change the world, we must begin with ourselves. Which of course is the next item in my list, which I'll get to in a moment. But be the change you want to see in your kids is all about role modeling. Who you are rubs off on your children. If you are courageous, they might feel courageous. If you are afraid, they might feel afraid. Just like my mom rubbed off on me. She was my role model. Who was your role model? Who did you emulate? Or going back to the first one, what you do in a challenging situation is either what they will or won't do. We have role models and then we have I guess you could call anti role models. Those are the role models that we don't want to emulate. Those are the people that we would rather not be like. So as a child, I had a role model and an anti role model. And the more you believe that who you are will be who your child is will help you understand what they will grow up and be again. They could see you as an anti role model and not do what you want them to do or act like you want them to act. But that's all part of supporting their path and hoping that they make the right decisions because they believe they're doing the right things. But we can act in a way that we want our children to act. So if you are in a situation where somebody is being highly disrespectful and instead of saying, you have no right to talk to me like that, take that back, or if you don't stop talking to me like that, I'm going to leave, you say instead, I'm so sorry I did that. I promise not to bother you again. If that's what they see you doing and they turn into you, that's who they'll be in other relationships. That puts a lot of burden on you because that means working on yourself. And. And that is something on the list too. But this is how we can at least contribute, or at least hopefully contribute to who they become is becoming the person that we want them to be. Doesn't mean they will. And it doesn't mean they'll follow your footsteps and be the surgeon that you are or the great pianist that you are. It just means that in the areas of life that matter most, what comes out of them will either be something they learned from you or somebody else. And all we can do is do our best to be our best around them. And that can be helpful to understand. Is like, they're watching me. It's sort of like, what do you do when no one's looking? It's like, what do you do when your children are looking? That can be quite enlightening. Maybe next one is work on your boundaries. And this is about working on yourself, working on dealing with challenges. Work on being okay. Expressing your truth is very much what I was just talking about. Work on feeling the fear and doing it anyway. This is the role model thing I'm talking about. Be the change you want to see in your kids and work on your boundaries. This is the next one. But it all kind of mixes together because you probably want your children to have good boundaries. So when they're in a challenging situation. They don't get bound, pummeled or steamrolled. Doesn't mean you want them to fight. It doesn't mean you want them to be violent or anything like that. It just means sometimes you do have to stand up for yourself. Sometimes you have to stand up for someone else. Sometimes you need the chutzpah to say what's on your mind so that somebody doesn't hurt you or somebody doesn't disrespect you. And again, this isn't picking fights. It's just there are times when, when people will say or do things that are hurtful or disrespectful or put you in a bad position. And it's helpful to be able to stand up and say, no, thanks, I don't want that. And either walk away from it or speak up. Choose the battle you want to have. Sometimes it's no battle at all. You just want to walk away. And giving them permission is basically what I'm saying. Giving them permission to say no, that is not something that I want in my life because it doesn't work for me. This is something that you might role model to them. But if they see you, I'm going to use the word cower. If they see you cower when somebody's being disrespectful, they're going to learn to cower when somebody's being disrespectful. Again, it doesn't mean they have to have a battle. It just means this is what they're learning. And do we want our children to learn that kind of behavior? It's tough because if we want our children to grow up with values and beliefs and self respect and worth and all that stuff, we kind of have to have it in ourselves or at least show it. If we show how we want to be treated to the world, that is what our children hopefully will take away. Now this next one. I got two more. This next one typically applies to couples that have broken up and there's some animosity or tension and the child has to go back and forth between the parents or they're hearing things, things from both parents. My advice is to never talk badly about the people they love. Even if the people they love talk badly about you. So that could be about another parent. It could be about someone they're dating. Don't talk badly about the people they love, even if the people they love talk badly about you. The reason is kids are smart. They'll figure it out eventually and they'll wonder why? The person who has nothing bad to say is always being blamed or put down or made to look like the bad guy. My wife had this problem with her ex and their child. Her child would go to live with her ex for a while, you know, for a week or two at a time, and he would come back. Her son would come back and say all kinds of bad things that dad said about her. He said, you did this, he said, you did that. He said that you're this and you're that. And she, for her whole or his whole life, she had never said anything bad about his dad because she wanted him to have a good relationship with his dad. And it took several years for him to finally see what was happening, but he figured it out. She didn't have to convince him that the dad was wrong or lying or anything like that. As he got older, they had those conversations. But he finally figured out that he would always hear all the bad stuff from dad, and it was never bad stuff from Mom. And he figured it out. It's like, you know, I've lived with dad enough to understand why you got a divorce, because he is just so difficult to deal with. So he started experiencing all the bad stuff that she experienced when she was married to him. And this is what often happens. Kids will eventually figure it out. Not all kids, unfortunately. This is the harsh truth is that some kids will be manipulated into thinking that the good parent is actually the bad parent. It does happen, I'm sorry to say, but when that happens, I actually did an episode on this a long time ago. When that happens and the kid comes back and starts talking all the bad stuff that, you know, Daddy or Mommy said, I think the good parent or the healthier parent, instead of saying that's not true, they're lying. If you start doing that, the kid isn't going to really believe that, because usually the other parent's going to say, oh, they're going to tell you I'm lying. So the kid goes in prepared to hear the words that they were primed with. They were prepared to hear, oh, that person's lying. Your dad, your mom, whatever is lying. Oh, that's what I was told was going to happen. I was told that they were going to lie. So the manipulative parent is right. Looking at it from a third person's point of view, the manipulative parent is right. The emotionally abusive parent is right. Because they prepared me for this other parent to lie. Even though that parent isn't lying, they're just trying to defend themselves and Trying to convince the child that nothing they said is true. But that doesn't usually work out. Which is why I think it's better to ask the child questions. And the question is usually, do you think that's true? Do you think that's what I did? What do you think is true? This forces them to go in their own head instead of being in the manipulative state that influenced state. So if they go in their own head, then they'll start connecting with the thoughts and emotions and feelings they have toward the healthy parent, at least theoretically. That's my hope. That happens all the time, is if you start asking questions instead of just saying that's not true and then being defensive, you're much better off trusting the child that they will come up to their own conclusion. Which is why I'm saying that children are very brilliant and they'll figure it out. But it does help to help them get to the conclusion that you know is true without pushing them to that conclusion. Just my thought as a non parent, but as somebody who specializes in adult relationships, for sure. Last one is. This is the last one. Remember the phrase teach a child through accountability and they'll learn what they have to lose. Teach them through punishment and they'll learn your breaking point. And they may even push you further and further each time. I'm going to read that again. Teach a child through accountability and they'll learn what they have to lose. But teach them through punishment and they'll learn your breaking point. The reason I wrote it that way specifically is because if the child thinks they're going to lose something, they're more likely not going to want to do that thing again to lose it. But if all they're learning is what your breaking point is because you're punishing them, punishing through whatever you do, which is also part of accountability. Accountability can be punishment and vice versa. But a punishment could be corporal punishment where you physically hurt the child. Not something I'm a proponent of. It certainly happened to me though a couple times. My dad certainly taught me a lesson that way. But it only happened a couple times. And I think I turned out okay eventually when I hit like 40. And there's also the type of punishment that my, my mom did, which was really being emotionally upset. My dad was really emotionally upset. That kind of upset isn't me losing something. It might be me being in fear. But when I saw my mom or my dad get upset about something I did, was it enough for me to change my ways? Sometimes it was sometimes seeing that Seeing them upset was enough. That felt like a loss to me. I felt like I was losing their love for me. It wasn't true, of course, but that's what it felt like. So that was accountability for me. Losing their love is me losing something, which is why I believe in accountability over punishment. Punishment, again, can be accountability, like you can't have your phone for a week, but that's a loss. So losing something, in my opinion, is a lot better than punishment, even though losing something is punishment. But I look at punishment as a way to push your boundaries to the point where you lose it, where you scream at them, where you hit them. Whereas accountability is the. The consequence of their behavior. And if they learn that, all they have to do is push your boundaries to the point where you lose it. If they learn where that boundary is, they can learn to push it further and further. Very much the same in an adult, emotionally abusive relationship. The emotionally abusive person learns the boundaries of the person they're hurting, and they end up pushing them further and further. And the person they're hurting becomes more resilient, becomes more tolerant. And over the years, they have gotten to the point where they are now in a fully emotional abuse cycle that never ends. And when it never ends, it's just a miserable relationship. So in the adult relationship, the perpetrator of hurtful behavior will find out the boundaries of the victim of that behavior, and they will keep pushing those boundaries further and further and further until there's barely any boundaries left. And so with children, I believe it's better to show them that there's going to be a big loss. You're not going to have your phone for a month. What, you're not going to be able to play games for a month. Those kinds of losses, even though they feel like punishments are an actual tangible loss, as opposed to, I'm going to be really mad at you. That can be a loss. But if they don't see it as a loss, then it doesn't do anything. Personally, I saw my parents being upset with me or unhappy with me as a loss. I craved the love and affection from my parents, so that was definitely a loss. So I learned a lot from that. But if some children don't feel that way, they already get love and affection from their parents, and they don't believe that that'll ever go, then you being upset may not go anywhere, may not help with the changing of their behavior. So if you teach a child through accountability what they'll learn to lose, as opposed to learning what your breaking point is because you're going to be upset and you're going to punish them. Then they're going to push you further and further each time. So that's what I mean by that. And that's it. That's the end of the list. I hope this helps the person who wrote. I hope the perspective of a person who does not have children is helpful. And I hope you understand that even when you do everything right, your children may still not turn out the way you want them to turn out. Even when things are perfect, they're going to have influences outside of you. And often they'll rely on those influences outside of you. They will look to those influences outside of you. And the more they have influences outside of you, the less control you'll have and the less likely they'll follow a path that you want. So all you can really do sometimes is always be there for them, no matter what happens. So when they come crying to you saying, they dumped me, you can say, I'm here for you. Tell me all about it. But I wouldn't recommend you say, I told you they would do this. I don't recommend that at all. So best of luck to you. Thank you for writing and sharing that and anyone who's a parent out there, I am very impressed that you can raise children at all. I think it's very difficult. I am not one of those people who say, oh, that's easy. They can stay home and raise the kids while I go to work. Hell no. That, that sounds like a, a very difficult job. And so I respect you. I am impressed by you and I definitely bow to your wisdom when it comes to parenting because I've never done it. Thanks for listening to another episode of the Overwhelmed Brain. I want to thank our patrons this week. Cheyenne, Wanda, Maria, Heather, Christiana, Sandra, a lot of them this week. Thank you so much for your support and for valuing the show and giving back. And I'm just so grateful. Makes me teary eyed and my heart is warm. Thank you again, patrons. If you find value in the show like these patrons do and you want to give back, head over to MoreToB.com and there are options to do that over there. Thank you again. And for a show on how to navigate difficult relationships maybe different than the kind we talked about today, listen to my other podcast called Love and abuse over@loveandabuse.com and if you know you're the difficult one in the relationship, I recommend you join the program that is helping a lot of people heal over@HealedBeing.com where you can stop the behaviors and maybe even save the relationship. Again, that's over@HealedBeing.com and with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions. And be firm in your decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want. Always take steps to grow and evolve. You are powerful beyond measure. And above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you, and I've known it for a long time. You are amazing.