← The Paid Search Podcast | A Weekly Podcast About Google Ads and Online Marketing
The Paid Search Podcast | A Weekly Podcast About Google Ads and Online Marketing
Answering Questions from Listeners! (Episode 432)
00:47:32
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Chris
Hello and welcome to the Paid Search podcast. My name is Chris and I'm going to answer questions from you guys. That is the entire episode today. A few weeks back I did a call out for you guys to send in questions. My inbox was empty. I needed some fresh questions. And you delivered. I actually have enough for maybe two weeks of this, possibly because I've got some really good questions all over the world. Of course, my little podcast is not just local, it is worldwide, which is so cool. So, preliminary warning. If you send in a question and your name isn't John or Dave, I'm probably going to get it wrong. But you're here not for the pronunciation, you're here for the Google Ads expertise and that's what I'm good at. So be ready to giggle and laugh because I'm going to get it wrong. But thank you so much for being here. If you are interested in sending in a question, possibly to be on next week's show or whenever I do this Q and A again, you can send in your question@paidsearch podcastmail.com that's paid search podcastmail.com and I'll get your question. And typically I reply and let you know, hey, good question. It'll be on the episode next week, which many of these people that I'm gonna answer questions from can attest to. They got an email from me. So send in your question that way. And let's begin with first, my sponsor to keep this whole show going is optio.com PSP. This amazing software is designed to help you get more out of Google Ads. It is designed to help look over your shoulder. Not everybody can watch everything all the time. And you can miss some critical points when you miss something important. Who tells you who watches it if it's supposed to be you and you're worried about missing these things. That's what Optio is all about. It's about making sure you don't miss critical data that is changing. Is your website down? Are certain ads disapproved? Is your spending dropping quickly? Is your conversion rate off for the past couple weeks and it's not working right? Are conversions completely stopping? Have impressions dropped significantly? And it can help you build campaigns as well. It can help you to come up with keywords, ad copy ideas, all kinds of things. It's an all in one tool for Google Ads doesn't do other things. It's designed specifically for you guys, the people who would be listening to a Google Ads podcast, right? Nerds like you and me. That's what it's for. So try this tool out for free for 2 months at optio.com PSP. The link is in the description and when you use that link, tell them in the chat box. Chris told me about Optio and I'd like to try it for an extra month and they'll give you those two months for free in their trial. Without further ado, let's go through the first set of questions here. And first comes from Arturo, who has a question. Arturo had some very complimenting things to say and it's a longer message. So I'm just going to boil it down to the basic question that he asks. Okay, so basically it comes down to this. He wants to know how do I know when to keep things in a single campaign or when should I build out ad groups instead in the same campaign? Okay, so I have a very specific two set rule that I generally follow and of course anything that I say can. There's always going to be exceptions, but most of the time it's based on value and based on bidding. I'm going to give you those two rules right now. First, if you are running a Google Ads campaign and you have a vast difference between one set of keywords and another set of keywords so far different that they provide a very different value to your business, then that is likely a reason to have two separate campaigns. Now a shorter value difference is not going to be a reason to create a different campaign, but a large value difference would be. So let me give you an example. And this is actually one of the examples that Arturo had used in his email. He'd mentioned studio headshots. Right? So photography, studio headshots versus location photography or specifically going to events, event photography. Okay, One is studio headshots, studio photography, you know, headshot photography. These are going to be one off sessions. They're usually pretty fast. You can churn through quite a bit of them. They're not super expensive and, and they're going to be cheaper because they're right there in studio. So they may provide a certain level of value. Now location photography, right? You're going to end up charging a lot more for that. Could be driving distance involved, could be a lot of things, dragging equipment, bringing other people with you. You know, the charge for this is going to be much bigger, especially events as well. Could be multiple hours, an all day event, weddings and all kinds of things. Could be a business event that's, you know, going to take, you know, eight hours in the day. Of course charge for that would be huge. So an Example of ad group to ad group might be when you want to do something that is corporate headshots, studio headshots, headshots near me, right? These might be different ad groups topics that you have. Still the same thing. Whether it's a corporate headshot or a studio individual headshot, a LinkedIn portrait headshot. These are all things people do. I've worked with a lot of these businesses and they're all pretty much the same thing. Another thing might be something that has a company interested in a photographer coming in and taking their entire staff headshot. Right? So that's a little bit wider difference, but still it's still in the headshot range. Right? It's still headshots. It's still going to be focused on that same thing. It might be a little more valuable than an individual session. So in that instance, that would be an example of the same campaign, different ad groups for each of these services. And the reason you want different ad groups is because you need to use different ad copy for each of those topics. So you have an example there. Let me give an example of different campaigns. So location photography would be a different campaign than the headshot because location would require a lot more value to the company and it might be worth spending more there because perhaps the cost per click is more. Or you just really want to emphasize you want to put 70% of your budget here and only 30% over here. Right? That's an example of that. Now let me give you an alternative point of view here. So I told you, value is one. The second is bidding. If you're running max conversions, target cpa, max conversion, value, target roas, any of these automated conversion based bidding strategies. My suggestion, whenever possible, use less campaigns. You are typically rewarded a bit more than running real thin, small spending campaigns on these automated bid strategies. If you build campaigns that have more data, have higher spins, have a little more freedom to be able to put budget where it needs to, then you're typically rewarded for that. And that's going to be something that you want to play towards. So you don't want to create a bunch of campaigns that are smaller, very narrow niche. If you're running any of these max conversion, conversion based bidding automated bid strategies. So just to be clear, there's really only two other bidding strategies that I would exclude from this and that'd be max clicks or manual bids. So basically I could say if you're running manual bids, if you're running max clicks, there's really no disadvantage to having a whole bunch of small campaigns. If you're running anything else, I would suggest you try and put as many ad groups into one campaign as possible to lean towards more conversion data, more data for Google to work with, more keywords, more volume. All right, great question. Thank you so much. Let's move now to Norway. I have a question from the Goddard. Yeah, I'm going to go with that, Vegard. Okay. And I'm going to pause here. I usually just put these in kind of based on when they came in. So I'm going to change topics here quite a bit. We are completely shifting. This question is in regard to the business of Google Ads. He's asking me specifically about my management, my business, you know, what it's like for a freelancer. So that's what we're, we're doing here. So let's proceed. How many clients do you usually work with and for how long? Are there any industries you particularly enjoy or avoid working with? What should freelancers focus on and what should they avoid? And what are the most common concerns that clients have? And for reference, he's asking, because he's working as a freelancer, he's interested in kind of how. What are some obvious tips, some things to do and to avoid and to expect. So let's go through it. Number one, this one. I mean, I'm still considering whether I want to answer this one or not. But I'll answer it and I'll decide what I want to do. But the number of clients. So I'll start from way back when I started working in Google Ads. I mean, I think I started with like two or three clients that I was handed from an agency. An agency hired me. They knew I knew how to do Google Ads. And they said, we don't do Google Ads, but we have clients that we do other things for that they want Google Ads. So can you do these two clients? You know, two or three clients. And I started working on those clients. This was quite a while ago. This was like, I don't know, 2009 was when I started my business. I've been doing Google Ads since 2003. So it was, you know, some years after that, 2009, I think. Okay, so 2009, I started working with three clients on my own. And I'll tell you, back then, it was a huge amount of work. I considered it to be a huge amount of work. I mean, I spent a lot of time there was, you know, every day I'm grinding in, looking at Google Ads, making adjustments. It was a different world back then. Okay. It was a different world because I had to constantly come up with new keywords. I mean, keywords were largely just exact match, other than broad phrase. And exact were truly that they were phrase and exact. So you had to be on your toes. You may be missing traffic if you didn't add new keywords. Watch your search terms, stuff like that. So back then, three clients was a massive deal for me, at least when I was just getting started. And then as I got better and as Google changed, it becomes a little, well, a lot easier to manage clients now. I manage, well, I don't want to say, but it is, it's a lot, I manage a lot of accounts. If you've ever been on my Patreon, which is defunct now, so sorry if you weren't in it, but I discussed my numbers and discussed a little more realistic what I actually do. But I'll just, I'll just say this, anyone who ever heard that number, even back then years ago, they were very shocked. And I'll just say that number's grown quite a bit more since then. So have a lot of clients, but I don't hire anyone, I don't work with anyone who, I don't outsource anything. I only take the clients that I'm able to handle. So the point is this kind of rambling a bit, I apologize, but the point is this. The point is you can only take as much as you can handle if you're going to be a freelancer. But the good news is as you dig in and learn Google Ads, you'll get faster and faster at it. And you've heard the rule about that. 10,000 hours in anything makes you really get to the expert level. I'm well above the 10,000 hour thing. I've been doing this for a long time. And so now my efficiency in managing accounts is much, much faster. You should start smaller, focus on learning, understanding, being able to look at Google Ads and not be intimidated by it. To be able to look at it as though Neo is looking at the matrix when that moment happens and to be able to see the number, see what's happening without having to stare at it blindly and be confused. You know, that's the point you want to be at, at that point, that's when you can expand a lot further. So when you get to a point where you've been doing it so long, you'll be surprised how much you can handle. You know, you can handle quite a bit because the management aspect, aspect, you learn to streamline a whole lot more. So question number two, how Long do clients stick around for me most of the time they stick around for a year, multiple years, sometimes a decade. I have many clients that I've had for close to a decade, if not more. The only ones that don't are typically ones that are at the very end of their life cycle anyway, at least in Google Ads. They come to me when they're struggling hoping that I would revive it somehow and I'm not able to. So those usually go pretty fast but you know, they were on their last leg. Anyway, we give it a try and it may not work but most of the time clients stick around for years. The next question is industries that I avoid. So this I used to, I used to tell people specific industries that I avoided. I gave specific industries that I did not like and I don't take that list has actually shrunk if not gone away completely. And now I've realized it's not necessarily the industry that I am avoiding. It's copy and paste clients. Clients that don't have anything unique to offer about their services. You know I used to really avoid real estate, you know, like real estate agents. But if someone offers something unique, if they're offering a value more than just I'm this guy and I do this, I mean there's nothing special about that. But if you're offering something unique, a value beyond just the typical, then I'm usually interested in something like that because it's easier to sell a value beyond just the normal. Makes you stand out. So that's what I would say. Be very cautious about companies that are just we're a roofing company and we just do roofs. I mean, you know that, that nothing we don't, we're not necessarily cheaper. We don't really have anything that makes us special. Our prices are maybe more expensive. You know, we have kind of a generic website, no special offers. I mean nothing, no angle or anything different about them that would make them stand out. It will make it very difficult to sell that and write anything unique in the ad copy or get any kind of decent conversion volume. So that's another example. Another question is what should freelancers focus on? So if you're managing Google Ads for clients or you're working for an agency, you know, whether you have an employee, well, whether you have an employer or you, you are self employed freelancer. I think anyone who's trying to do this should focus on their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. Completely avoid their weaknesses. I especially freelancers, if you're able to become an expert in something, really become an expert in that and do that very well and make relationships with other people that can provide those services for your client or send them to that person. If you try and become a one stop shop for multiple things, you will be outperformed constantly, all the time by larger agencies which do that properly. If they have 50 people, 20 people and you know, three of them are graphic designers and three of them are website people and 10 of them are Google Ads people, I mean you cannot compete to the number of specialties that they offer. What you can compete in is a simplistic approach from a true expert that a person can have a relationship with rather than an agency that they're forced to kind of engage with. So your best way to stand out is to be a freelancer that is an expert in something, good at something. It doesn't try to be something that they're not. Which is what I've done very well because I don't like learning new things. I don't, I don't really like adventuring outside of something I'm not familiar with, which has led me to become a Google Ads expert. I found it, I was really good at it and I kept at it for a very long time and now I'm able to sell that expertise very well because I do a great job at it. So I hope that is helpful. Last one, concerns from clients. So what are the most common concerns that clients have? There's really a couple questions that are always. As a freelancer, you should always answer these questions. Number one is, are they wasting money? Is the client wasting money? You should always answer that question and help them to be comfortable and be truthful. You should never convince them they're not wasting money if they really are wasting money. That is very important. The number of people that contribute to the sliminess of pay per click and Google Ads are the people that lie about that first thing that don't care. Maybe they're not actively lying, but they don't care and they allow people to waste money without telling them the truth. I can't tell you how many clients I have convinced to fire me because they ask Kris, is this right for me? Are we wasting money? You know, and I'll say, listen, we've tried this for three months, it has not worked. And unless you see value that I don't see, the numbers aren't matching up, I don't think that you should continue. That honest conversation has lost me a lot of jobs, but it has saved a lot of businesses from wasting money on Google that I don't think they should have been spending. The next big concern from a client is typically what don't I know that I should know. So that's your job, to fill in that gap, the knowledge gap. That's what they want to know. They might, they may not ask that, but that's what they want from you, is to tell them, here's what, here's what you don't know. Here, here's what I see that you don't see. Right. You're the interpreter. The next thing is competitors. They always want to know about competitors. What are my competitors doing, where are they, how much do I show up next to them, do they spend more than me? All that kind of stuff. Right. And you should facilitate conversations about that in different ways. And then last, I mean, is very common is quality and number of leads and sales. Right. Bad leads or not enough sales. I mean, this is, this is the main anchor point. But you know, sometimes people don't even get to that conversation because they may never be making leads and sales out of it. That's hopefully a problem that you have because not everybody gets conversions out of Google Ads. Sometimes there is failure from the beginning and it never recovers. So thank you so much for the question. Great question. Not a topic I go into very often, but I thought I would diverge a bit from my Google Ads speech and get into that. I thought it was a good topic to get into. Let's get back on track now. Let's go back into Google Ads and answer some questions. I have quite a few more questions to go through, so stay tuned. We have a question from Frazier in New Zealand. Now, Frasier is a frequent subscriber to my coaching service. I've talked to Frasier quite a bit and he's gracious enough to talk to me at whatever horrible hour it is whenever I do coaching. I'm pretty sure he has to wake up or stay up late or something. But Frazier sends in a question and he says, a couple podcasts ago, a couple episodes ago, I had mentioned that I had lowered the cost per conversion, but the client's cost per job went up because of that change. And he'd like to know, are you able to clarify which of the clients costs went up as a result of lowering the cpc. So yes, it took me some thinking. But I remember this discussion. It was specifically about my windshield repair client. So I want to dig into this and clarify a bit about what happened. So to be as technical as possible, what I did is I changed the bidding strategy for the client I enabled in a experiment where I tried a different bidding strategy. I tried something that was, I think target cpa. That was my test. My original campaign was in manual. I was running manual cpc. So I was doing an experiment between manual and target cost per acquisition. So manual versus automated essentially. And the result was I got much better cost per acquisition there. According to my metrics, the leads were much more common with the automated bidding as compared to the manual bidding, which happens, I've seen that many times before and that's a good indication. Go ahead, let's go with the automated bidding. The automated bidding can provide better value in the end for the client. So let's say my manual bidding would deliver 100 leads per month. For this client, the automated bidding would deliver 150. So obviously they're both spending the same amount. I would go with the automated because the cost per conversion is much better. If I'm paying, you know, one's paying 5,000 for 100 leads, the other's paying 5,450 leads. I want to go with the 150 leads. So what I talked about in the episode and what Frazier specifically asking about is why was this a bad thing? Why did this lead to the client having a less than satisfactory result with the jobs with the sales that they were getting? So 150 leads turned out to be a bad thing for this client because these leads converted less. Now when I say converted, what I mean is the leads transition to a sale less often. They were able to take a lead and convert it to a purchase a buy a job less often. So the first campaign, a hundred leads might turn into ninety sales. The second, and I don't know exactly what the number is, but the second was, you know, maybe 150 leads but there were only 70 sales. So a lot less qualified leads. For some reason their, their, their lead to sale ratio dropped by a significant percentage. So therefore their cost per job increased. So here's the tricky part. The cost per job increased, but all the other metrics in Google Ads looked much better. They were paying less per click. The cost per click on the automated max conversion Target CPA campaign had a much lower cost per click than the manual and it had a better conversion rate. So these two factors led to more clicks, thus more conversions, higher conversion rate, lower cpc, you get a whole lot more conversions. So in the end what happens, and this is something to remember when you consider what's on the screen versus what's reality on the screen. It looks like I'm delivering more but on the back end, on the client side, on the salesman side, what they're getting is a lot more people that don't show up to the meeting, don't follow up with the phone call, don't answer the email, you know, never end up purchasing a bunch of just shoppers, people that are less qualified for some reason. And this is critical because what I had to do was roll back and go back to a system that looked worse, right? Anybody who analyzed my account would say, well, look, Chris did an experiment and went back to the one that had the worst numbers. Higher CPC and lower conversion rate. That's right. That's right. Because in the end, the higher cost per click and the lower conversion rate led to more jobs for the client. So in the end, you cannot always pursue better numbers. Better numbers in Google Ads does not mean better performance, better job, better books for your business. And that was an important thing to remember because this client quickly sent me the numbers just right on screen. And it. It was very important. So if you're interested in hearing more about that story, you can go back, I don't know, about five, six episodes maybe, and listen to that. And I go into it more depth. I give specific numbers about that experience and what happened there. So. All right, next we are going to Naggy. Nagy. Nagy. Nagy. Anyway, all right, so sent a question in and says, I'm a longtime listener of the podcast. You really helped me on my journey of learning Google Ads. Keep up the good work. Recently read an article titled Google Ads Ad Copy what Works and what doesn't in 2024 from search engine Land. So thank you so much for the question. I went in and actually looked at the article and looked at what they were saying, and I was intrigued by your comments and also what the article said, that I wanted to answer the question here. And specifically, Nagy says that the article points out some aspects that seem to have changed over the years. For example, according to the article, shorter headlines consistently outperformed longer ones, and sentence case ads had higher ROAs and lower CPAs. So this caught my eye because I never use sentence case. I always use. I always capitalize every word in my ad copy. And I will continue to do that. I've always done that. I think it looks better, especially in the headlines, but it's interesting. So I pulled up the article, looked at it, and I completely disagree with the conclusion of this article and I will tell you why. Their assumption of success, I think, makes a massive leap. That is not something that I think that can be assessed between these two points. Whenever I make an assumption in Google Ads, my assumptions rely on very close metrics, metrics that are directly associated with each other. I think the connection that this article makes leaps too far. So let me read out some of the tables that are in this and I'll tell you why. So the first is based on ad strength. And what they show is that average and poor ad strength had better average roas. The cost per acquisition, the roas and sometimes the conversion rate as well was better than the excellent and good ad strength. So essentially in this case, someone who ignores ad strength actually got better returns than someone who goes through meticulous writing and following all the prompts in Google Ads to get the excellent ad strength. All right, so that's the conclusion that they draw. When I see this chart, I absolutely disagree because when I and anyone who's listening to the podcast for years may know where I'm going. Because me and Jason, the former co host of this, had a debate at one point and I still feel the same way I've always felt. I do not judge my ad copy based on conversion rates or roas. I think that is a false equivalent of success for ad copy. My ads do not lead to a conversion. My landing page leads to a conversion. I can write really good ad copy and get a lot of clicks. But if my landing page does not provide the same message or if it is a less than valuable service, then what, what would what it was put out to be or you know, what the person thought? There's a lot of ways that you can write messaging in ad copy that looks very favorable, but on the page it's, it's not something someone is interested in. Let me, let me say this, here's an example. If I write ad copy that says learn about how to fix your phone battery and I show up on searches that are about replace iPhone battery, can I replace iPhone battery, can I replace Android battery? How to get new Android battery? And I have something that's very informational learn about what I might get is a very high click through rate. That was great ad copy. It worked. But my conversion rate would be crap because the people that came through were interested in learning. They thought it was an informational blog post. But in the end it's just a giant shopping of, you know, buying batteries or buying some kind of service or something like that. You know, completely disregarding the fact that I said learn, discover, you know, these kind of action information kind of terms. So it's completely disconnect between the two, I would not blame my ad copy on my lack of conversions. What I would blame is the fact that I'm advertising to the how to kind of message. You know, and then let's fix the same scenario. Let's take that same how to and give them different ad copy. Now let's give them ad copy with the price directly in the ad. Buy a new battery, you know, for this price. Get batteries shipped directly to your door, you know, fast battery delivery to your home. That's the kind of ad copy. Now what happens is the click through rate drops dramatically, right? Because not as many people are clicking on it. But you know what happens? My conversion rate goes up. And why is that? That's because I have a linear connection between the interest of the search, the topic of the ad copy, the intent of the landing page and the intent of the user. All of those are linear. It makes sense. I have much more, I have much better success with this. So I think just manipulating ad copy and then looking at the conversion rate is not the way to draw conclusions here. So I give you that example. But here's the main punch. If you go and look up this article, guess what has the best click through rate? The opposite of what they say is the success. I don't. It's amazing. If I look at ad strength, the excellent ad strength has the highest ctr, the poor ad strength has the lowest ctr. So they're judging based on the N factor of conversions. But I don't see it that way. Your ad delivers the click through rate, your landing page delivers the conversion rate. You don't jump ship and jump over one to find the other. That's not the way that you analyze ads as I've demonstrated in my example that you can manipulate those conversion rates, those click through rates simply by changing. And they didn't really have anything to do with each other. It more had to do with the linear process of the search, the ad copy and the landing page altogether. So that's my thoughts. I completely disagree with the article. I really appreciate you sending it because I thought it was very interesting. And it only strengthens my opinion that I am correct because their own charts prove it that there is not a connection between CTR and conversion rate. It does not work like that. It's not as linear as one would assume. All right, last question here. And it's another question about a podcast I've done trying to get more solid answers about something I talked about. Gonna answer that question real quick. Remind you if you haven't, Please check out optio.com that's opt.com PSP for a two month, eight week free trial of their amazing software. I know many, many, many, many of you have tried it and are continuing to use it is now it is now part of your tool set that you use every day in Google Ads. So I'm speaking to those of you, just a few who haven't tried it. Seriously, I talked to a lot of you guys on through my coaching services and emails and stuff like that. I know everyone loves it when they try it. They're typically very impressed with it. So if you haven't tried it, give it a try. Link is in the description. All right, last question is from Alan Elaine. Alan Elaine Ollie it's a person writes in hi Chris, longtime listener to the by far best Google search podcast out there. Thank you. So here's the questions. In one of your podcasts this year you said that search lost due to is rank was a number to look at to ignore. Sorry, was a number to look at to figure if you are spending too much on clicks. However, I've tried to reach their research this and I'm starting to think that you meant search loss due to budget. It would be amazing if you could point me to previous episodes you discuss in this in more detail or you'd address it in your Q and A at some point. Anyway, as I get more into Google Ads, I see clearly why you are so right about manual bids. Thanks for all your help. Well yeah, that you that's probably why I grabbed this question is because you praised manual bidding. And yeah, that's those are my favorite people. So I am right about manual bidding and I will continue to be right. But anyway, back to the question. So I'm going to double up on my cockiness here. I'm not wrong. I did not mean search loss due to budget. I did mean search loss due to rank is how you can judge if you are spending too much on clicks. That is likely a quote of what I said and that's exactly what I meant. So I will use the last couple minutes here to explain why that statement is 100% true and you should not consider search loss due to budget to calculate how much you're spending or overspending or underspending on clicks. So search loss due to rank is a number that's effectively the RPM gauge of your bids. The higher you push your bids, the lower this number will go because it's a direct inverse of how much you're losing due to rank. So if I am Bidding on Let's do Photo Booth. You know, Headshot Studio near me, right? I was talking about that earlier in the episode, Headshot Studio near Me. If I bid a hundred dollars on that, which is crazy high, I will get a 0% loss due to rank. If I see a 0% loss due to rank, that tells me I'm spending too much on clicks, probably. Because I'm probably getting one or two clicks and they're blowing out my budget right away. And even if every one of those clicks, even if I got a call on that first click and a call on the second click, they each cost me, let's say $50 each, or maybe $100 each if it went all the way out. So let's say a hundred. $100 a lead. And let's imagine that's not an acceptable cost per acquisition for my business. I need to pay $15 a lead, which is extremely low. But let's. Let's go with it. $15 a lead for Headshot Photographer. So in this scenario, I'm bidding $100, and I'm getting, let's say 100% conversion rate. So I get one click for $100, and I got a lead. Another click for $100, I got a lead. It's still too high. I'm paying too much for those leads. Now I know that because my search loss due to rank is so low. Let's change that number. And now let's bid $25 per click. What's going to happen is that search loss due to rank number is going to go up because now I'm losing more of my impressions due to my rank being lower. So I went from $100 bid and cooled it down. All right? I cooled down the RPMs. I slowed down the RPMs on the system, and now I'm running at a nice $25 CPC, right? So I'm not showing up all the time. Now I'm missing a lot of impressions because maybe some I would have needed a $35, a $50 bid, some I needed just a $30 or a $29, but I'm only bidding manual bids $25 max. So I'm missing some. But my cost per click is much cheaper. And let's say I have an equally good conversion rate. Let's say it's 100% conversion rate, and now I'm getting conversions every time somebody clicks, right? So both scenarios, the only thing that changed was my cost per click. So Now I'm getting $25 cost per click, and my budget is $200, so I can get a lot more conversions because I'm not paying too much for those bids. So keeping conversion rate steady, you can see that not changing the budget and only changing the bids directly affects the volume of leads and the cost per lead. So what changed was how much I was paying per click, right? So in that scenario, my conversion rate, everything stayed the same, but the only thing that changed was my bids. So the bids influence the search loss due to rank and therefore I can read that number and tell, wow, 0%, way too high. 5%, way too high. 15%, way too high. You should never be bidding in these low numbers unless you're, you know, unless you're getting, I mean, just win after, you know, unless you convert, justify that kind of high cpc, you should not be doing it. So only thing to really maintain something like that is to bid at a more sustainable level, which is typically going to be 50, 60, 70, 80% on your search loss due to rank. So now you're not paying too much per click, you're paying something that is sustainable and that's it. So thank you guys for listening. If you would like to reach out to me, you can find my information in the links on the podcast chrissafer. Com. I do coaching and Google Ads management. Otherwise I'll catch you next week.