The Paid Search Podcast – Episode 477:

“Answering Your Questions About Google Ads” (August 25, 2025)
Host: Chris Schaeffer, Certified Google Ads Specialist

Episode Overview

In this Q&A episode, Chris Schaeffer tackles three in-depth listener questions centered on Google Ads strategy and optimization. The discussion focuses on campaign structure pitfalls, the role of branded keywords in Performance Max campaigns, and advanced bidding strategies for accounts with multiple conversion types. Chris delivers his trademark direct, practical advice—breaking down mistakes, clarifying myths, and offering step-by-step tactical solutions for frustrated advertisers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Troubleshooting Premium Beef Google Ads Campaigns

Question from Agostina (03:30 – 18:00)

Situation:

• Agostina manages Google Ads for a U.S.-based premium beef client (~$50k–$60k monthly sales).
• Current setup:
  • Brand and broad match search ads for bottom-funnel targeting.
  • Performance Max campaign (max conversions bidding), but high impressions yield no conversions.
  • Attempts to fix: changed Performance Max assets, added a Shopping campaign, unsure whether to segment by state or try a different bidding strategy.

Chris’s Analysis & Advice:

• Brand + Broad Match Combo Is Misleading

  • Brand campaigns show great metrics but add no incremental value—they simply “advertise to people who have already been to your client's website.” (06:00)
  • “Broad match keywords are riding on the coattails of your brand keywords… broad match spend… is wasting money.” (07:25)
  • “The campaign is only showing positive metrics because the brand is providing the lift the broad is pulling down.” (08:05)
  • Quote: “You and Google do not have the same priorities. Your client wants to sell things, and Google… just wants you to continue to advertise.” (10:00)

• Performance Max Warnings for High-Value Niche Products

  • “Performance Max for this kind of high-cost premium product is highly unlikely to succeed.” (09:20)
  • “Throwing Performance Max at a failing campaign does not fix it.” (09:55)

• Why These Strategies Fail

  • Over-reliance on automation: “Your current strategy allows Google to make all the decisions for your traffic.”
  • Lack of control over traffic quality: “If you don’t focus on quality of traffic, Google won’t do that either.” (11:00)

• Chris’s Tactical Solutions:

  1. Quality Traffic First
     • Start with a standard Shopping campaign (not Performance Max). “They just serve on google.com with pictures, images, prices… People are more motivated to purchase.” (12:00)
  2. Exact Match, High-Intent Search Campaigns
     • Build exact match search campaigns based on best-converting terms. “Quality of traffic is the step right before they purchased. Target those as exact match.” (13:30)
  3. Careful, Segmented Broad Match
     • Only after a solid base, try a non-brand, upper-funnel broad match campaign for cheaper clicks—but not as a fix for failing core campaigns.
  • Closing Guidance: “Focus on adding new customers, new value, building upon what you have. Don’t just have a snake that eats its own tail.” (17:30)

2. Should You Include Brand Queries in Performance Max?

Question from Bernardo – Hotel Industry (18:05 – 29:00)

Situation:

• Bernardo manages a hotel’s Google Ads.
• Historically excluded brand terms from Performance Max to avoid overlap with branded search campaigns.
• When exclusions added, both campaign performance and reservations dropped.
• Some colleagues argue leaving brand in Performance Max improves algorithmic data and overall results.
• Question: Do you include or exclude brand from Performance Max? Any recommended testing setup?

Chris’s Analysis & Advice:

• Firm Stance: Exclude Brand from Performance Max

  • “I do not let Performance Max have brand searches, period.” (20:10)
  • Removing brand exposes the “reality” of Performance Max’s effectiveness. “Brand has a horrible tendency to disguise failure, disguise metrics that are worse than you thought.” (21:10)
  • If performance drops after excluding brand, that reveals true non-brand account health.

• Why Not Let Performance Max Handle Brand

  • “Getting brand conversions in Google Ads is the easiest, simplest thing to do… It requires no skill.” (23:10)
  • “Why would I feed the easiest and most abused aspect of Google Ads to Performance Max?” (23:45)
  • Manual search campaigns give advertisers full control—budget, ad copy, messaging.

• No Retargeting in Performance Max

  • “I don’t use remarketing audiences in my Performance Max campaigns. You get me leads that haven’t heard of me before and go do it.” (25:30)
  • “Do not resell me my own leads.” (25:45)

• Memorable Analogy:

  • “Brand keywords are Gremlins. Keep them safe. Keep them secret. Don’t feed them after midnight and don’t pour water on them… They can overpopulate and become evil in your campaign.” (27:20)

3. Bidding Strategies & Conversion Value Assignment

Question from Khan, Pakistan (29:40 – 48:00)

Situation:

• Account has two conversion actions:
  1. Purchase (high value, low volume)
  2. Signup (low value, high volume)
• Questions:
  • When does assigning values to conversion actions matter?
  • Should both conversion types be used in a brand campaign with consistent purchases?
  • In DSA (Dynamic Search Ads) and non-brand campaigns running Maximize Conversions, Google seems to over-optimize for easy signups.

Chris’s Analysis & Advice:

• Conversion Value Assignment Only Matters for ROAS Bidding

  • Quote: “Assigning values to a conversion only matters with Maximize ROAS and Target ROAS… If you are adding values and using Maximize Conversions or Target CPA, you are impacting the bidding… zero.” (31:00)
  • “If you want values to influence bidding, use Maximize ROAS or Target ROAS, not Maximize Conversions or Target CPA.” (32:00)

• Brand Campaigns: Don’t Optimize for Conversions

  • “Brand campaigns are not about getting conversions… Who cares what conversions you’re getting?”
  • Use manual bidding or Target Impression Share for brand campaigns—“It is about getting your placement.” (34:45)
  • “No one should be bragging about how many brand conversions they get. Contain it.” (35:40)

• Optimizing for Purchases When Signups Dominate

  • Confirmed: “Target CPA (or even Maximize Conversions) will always go after the easiest conversion action.” (37:00)
  • If signups are easier, the algorithm will prioritize those—even if they’re less valuable.
  • Example: “Store visits can overwhelm legit leads… You can get hundreds and hundreds of quote unquote conversions, even if they're worthless.” (38:17)

Chris’s Solutions:

1. Manual Bidding (Preferred)
   • “Use manual bidding and manage the bids based on the ad groups that have the higher percentage of purchases.” (40:15)
   • “Manually adjust based on where I see value coming from, particularly paying attention to the ROAS numbers.” (41:00)
2. Target ROAS with Assigned Conversion Values (More Risky)
   • Assign conversion values, switch to Target ROAS or Max Conversion Value.
   • Caution: “You lose your bidding controls… I like to kind of step into this process.” (42:30)

• Step-by-Step Mindset:
  • “First, start managing bids manually by ad group. Later, experiment with value-based, automated bidding—but only after you’ve established a solid baseline and understand the risks.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Your current strategy allows Google to make all the decisions… Google’s interested in one thing: getting people to click on your ad. That’s the ugly truth.” (10:00)

• “You can have a 100% optimization score and have an absolute trash campaign.” (10:20)

• “If it’s gonna do its amazing job, let [Performance Max] do it. No, you don’t get this easy part [brand].” (25:50)

• On Brand as Gremlins: “Brand keywords are Gremlins. Keep them safe. Keep them secret… They can overpopulate and become evil in your campaign.” (27:20)

• “Target CPA… will always go after the easiest conversion action. Because you’re telling it all of them are of equal value, which is not the case.” (37:05)

• “No one should be bragging about how many brand conversions they get… It’s the easiest and most abused metric in Google Ads. Contain it.” (35:40)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:30 — Agostina’s question: Troubleshooting premium beef Google Ads strategy
• 06:00–10:00 — Why brand + broad match can mislead results
• 12:00 — Recommendation: Standard Shopping campaigns & exact match search
• 18:05 — Bernardo’s question: Brand queries in Performance Max for hotels
• 23:10 — Why not let Performance Max handle brand
• 27:20 — The “Gremlins” analogy for brand overlap
• 29:40 — Khan’s question: Conversion value assignment and bidding tactics
• 31:00 — Value assignment and ROAS bidding explained
• 35:40 — Why not to chase conversions in brand campaigns
• 37:00 — How Max Conversions favors easy conversions (signups)
• 40:15 — Manual bidding vs. automated bidding for multi-conversion setups
• 42:30 — Risks of going straight to Target ROAS

Tone & Style Snapshot

Chris’s approach is blunt, honest, and peppered with memorable analogies and real-world metaphors—ideal for practitioners who appreciate tactical advice laced with “the ugly truth.” Each answer is direct, actionable, and rooted in his hard-won Google Ads experience.

Final Takeaways

• Don’t let Google’s automation run unchecked—reclaim control to prioritize your (not Google’s) goals.
• Separate brand and non-brand, both structurally and strategically, for accurate measurement and genuine growth.
• Assign conversion values only if you’ll leverage value-based bidding (ROAS); otherwise, values are ignored.
• Manual bidding and segmented optimizations are foundational, especially before handing the reins to full automation.
• Guard your brand keywords like “gremlins”—they’ll multiply and mask campaign reality if left unchecked.

For more insights or to submit your question, visit paidsearchpodcast.com.