Glenda, A Survivor’s Story

Summary

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The Pitcairn Trials

Episode 4: Glenda, A Survivor’s Story

Podcast: Always True Crime
Host: Luke Jones
Date: January 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on Glenda, one of the survivors of the historic child sexual abuse scandal on Pitcairn Island. For the first time, Glenda shares her personal story publicly, revealing the trauma she experienced growing up on this isolated British territory, the profound effects of abuse, and her journey towards healing and justice. The episode explores the broader context of Operation Unique, the investigation that exposed systematic abuse on the island, and the challenges of seeking accountability in such a tightly-knit, cut-off community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Pitcairn Island Context and Glenda’s Early Life

• Pitcairn is a remote British territory in the Pacific, accessible only by boat and home to just a few dozen residents—most descended from the Bounty mutineers.
• Glenda recalls her childhood with vivid, innocent memories of island life:

  "[About the flag] The wheelbarrow is because it's what we used to carry our firewood in." (Glenda, 02:35)
  "[For fun]...a lot of it is going gnarly, swimming...playing hide and seek...stilts...just running around, just doing what we feel like doing." (Glenda, 07:12)

• Her family was closely connected to the island’s history, reinforcing how insular and familiar everyone was.

2. First Experiences of Abuse

• Glenda’s earliest traumatic memory occurred when she was just three years old:

  "I woke up, I thought I was dreaming and my body was rocking, literally rocking. And...there was this guy trying to..." (Glenda, 08:25)

  • The abuser was not a family member but an older island resident. After a second attempt, her screaming prevents further immediate abuse.

  "Everybody knows everybody on Pitcairn. And your doors and windows...are always open." (Glenda, 10:11)

3. Systemic Nature and Secrecy of Abuse

• Abuse was not isolated; it was systemic and perpetuated by multiple men, sometimes in groups.

  "Steve Christian...gang rape, banyan trees...He did his turn and then he tried to get the others...I managed to get up and I ran home." (Glenda, 11:34)

• Glenda was unable to confide in anyone, feeling isolated and ashamed:

  "No, I was ashamed because I thought it was me. They said it was me." (Glenda, 16:25)

• The island's adults, including some women, reinforced harmful narratives:

  "'You've got to stop this.' I said, 'What?' She says, 'Chasing after the men.' I said, 'I'm not.'...I think I was about 13, 14." (Glenda, 17:19)

4. Abuse at School and Absence of Safe Spaces

• Glenda describes harrowing abuse at the hands of a teacher:

  "He'd take his willy out and he'd slap it on the ironing board and say, iron...he abused me. It continued on." (Glenda, 18:57)

  • The teacher’s behavior was open and mocking, compounding Glenda’s trauma and sense of isolation.

5. Lasting Psychological Impact and Coping Mechanisms

• Dissociation, freezing, and numbness are discussed as common coping responses for child abuse survivors.

  "We have the fear response...another one is to freeze...they're likely to dissociate...outside their body looking down at what's happening..." (Sandy, Glenda’s counselor, 13:50)

• The effects lingered well into adult life, impacting Glenda’s relationships and sense of safety:

  "When the sun goes down, even now, the downstairs curtain's got to be closed...I'd be pulling the curtains as fast as I can so nobody could see me." (Glenda, 18:13) "[After hysterectomy] And I said, thank God for that. And nobody knew." (Glenda, 20:34)

6. Leaving Pitcairn and Finding Support

• At 19, Glenda leaves Pitcairn after meeting her husband, a visiting Englishman, despite family opposition:

  "I'm going to marry the person I've chosen...not for the people of Pitcairn." (Glenda, 25:09)

• She builds a life in England, remaining married for 50 years.

7. Operation Unique and Breaking the Silence

• Decades later, Operation Unique (early 2000s) contacts Glenda as the investigation into widespread abuse gathers pace:

  "Every single one [potential victim] confirmed what had happened to them. There wasn't one that said, no, it didn't happen to me." (Peter George, 04:10)

• Glenda is reluctant, angry, and terrified when first approached:

  "I said, well, why do you want to see me? I says, can't you just fuck off?" (Glenda, 27:15)

• During her first interview, she experiences an overwhelming rush of memories and emotion:

  "I just went back as a child. I was that three-year-old again, literally a three-year-old...I said, you fucking write fucking faster. I'm not. Stop." (Glenda, 28:00)

• Her husband supports her after learning the truth:

  "He says, no, no, he said it, it's not you. He said, don't be silly for one minute. You said you're staying." (Glenda, 31:02)

8. Healing Through Therapy

• Glenda’s therapy with Sandy offers a path to understanding and begins to untangle years of trauma:

  "I went in and. And I said to her, I said, I'm here because I was fucking told. I had to. My language was blue. And I said, and I had to come and everything else." (Glenda, 33:26)

• Therapy had profound effects on her life and family:

  "As you get older, it's harder to keep a lid on those things. And it did affect you with your girls, didn't it?" (Sandy, 34:19) "But I'd be out walking the street looking for [my daughter], wondering, and I'm gonna find her dead in a gutter somewhere or raped. It was horrible. And then I just go ballistic when I do find her." (Glenda, 34:29)

9. Challenges of Prosecution and Aftermath

• The legal dilemma: almost every man on the island was implicated, making prosecution and the island’s functioning complicated:

  "One of the magistrates was a suspect. So what do you do? Everyone was a suspect, Every male, really." (Peter George, 36:14) "They rely on the men on the island...It was going to be a real problem...I couldn't really see quite how this was going to be dealt with, I must admit." (Peter George, 36:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Vivid Childhood Innocence

  "Mum and Dad put us in this wheelbarrow and took us down, and then we were fast asleep in wheelbarrow when we got back."
  (Glenda, 02:52)

• Confronting the Past

  "I'm very particular who I open up to. Very particular."
  (Glenda, 06:56)

• Recounting the Abuse

  "He raped me and he tried to get the other boys to do the same. I'm sorry."
  (Glenda, 12:51)

• The Weight of Shame

  "No, I was ashamed because I thought it was me. They said it was me."
  (Glenda, 16:25)

• Coping Mechanisms

  "For you, it's flying, isn't it, feeling that out of body experience. So it's the only way to survive...you just are numb to what's going on."
  (Sandy, 13:50)

• Release During Police Interview

  "You want to know something? I said, you fucking write fucking faster. I'm not. Stop. You want to hear it? This is all coming out."
  (Glenda, 28:00)

• Therapeutic Breakthroughs

  "I said to her, I said, I'm here because I was fucking told. I had to...My language was blue."
  (Glenda, 33:26)

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Pitcairn flag, Glenda's introduction: 02:22
• Glenda's earliest abuse memory: 08:25
• Attack by Steve Christian and dissociation explained: 11:34 – 13:50
• Lack of safe spaces and teacher abuse: 16:22 – 18:57
• Living with trauma and shame: 20:13 – 21:00
• Leaving Pitcairn, meeting her husband: 23:03 – 25:51
• Operation Unique begins to contact survivors: 26:36
• First police interview, emotional outpouring: 27:51 – 29:37
• Therapy and its impact: 31:57 – 34:29
• Impact on Glenda’s own parenting: 34:29
• Legal complexities on Pitcairn: 36:14 – 36:57

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Tone and Style

• The episode is direct, unflinching, and deeply compassionate, with strong language reflective of Glenda’s pain and realness.
• There is a steady presence of empathy from both host Luke Jones and Sandy, Glenda’s counselor, honoring the courage required to voice these truths.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Pitcairn Trials stands out for its raw honesty and careful navigation of a survivor’s harrowing recollections. Glenda’s willingness to speak out illustrates both the devastating, long-term impact of abuse and the importance—and difficulty—of seeking justice in small, insular communities. The episode serves as a vital reckoning: a personal and collective call to listen, believe, and fight for reckoning and healing, no matter how remote or tight-knit the place.

Transcript

[Always True Crime Network Announcer]

We'll get back to your true crime story in just a moment. This podcast is part of the Always True Crime network, home of thousands of episodes exploring gripping true crime cases. If you're looking for somewhere to start, check out our recent investigative series, Project Mind Control. It uncovers a chilling chapter in history, examining the disturbing experiments carried out on vulnerable people in an attempt to erase and reprogram the human mind. Featuring testimony from one of the last known survivors of a notorious Canadian psychiatric institution, it's a powerful story that's as shocking as it is important. Check out the show and more@always truecrime.com.

[Ben Green]

This is Ben Green from the Athletic FC podcast, and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In football, sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery to reach their full potential. And think about your phone the same way. Head into a Boost Mobile store and their team will clean up your device, check your battery health, and get you set up on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price increases, just a fresh start. For your phone and your wallet, visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

[Edward Jones Advertiser]

At Edward Jones we believe rich means opening yourself to new possibilities. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you. You are helping you move forward with confidence. Let's find your rich Edward Jones member sipc.

[Luke Jones]

If you sold somebody a loaded gun who you knew was in a vulnerable state and they shot themselves, I think it is murder. Just because you're using the Internet doesn't mean you get away with murder. I'm Damon Fairless, host of Hunting Warhead.

[Glenda]

This season I take you inside the business of suicide and and the places

[Luke Jones]

desperate people go when they can't find

[Glenda]

what they need in the real world.

[Luke Jones]

Hunting the Suicide Salesman. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. A warning. This episode of the Pitcairn Trials contains graphic discussion of child sexual abuse and strong language from the start. The Pitcairn flag.

[Glenda]

Yep.

[Luke Jones]

If you can picture it, I've got it. I felt like I'd seen it a few times, but then I noticed something

[Glenda]

the day it's got a wheelbarrow on it with the flower on it.

[Luke Jones]

This is Glenda.

[Glenda]

The wheelbarrow is because it's what we used to carry our firewood in.

[Luke Jones]

Yes.

[Glenda]

And if you go to the garden and bringing home like watermelons and all that sort of thing.

[Luke Jones]

Glenda grew up on Pitcairn. She's descended from two of the Bounty mutineers.

[Glenda]

I can remember when I was a wee child and my brother was. I think he was about a year old, people used to have birthday parties and Mum and Dad put us in this wheelbarrow and took us down, and then we were fast asleep in wheelbarrow when we got back.

[Luke Jones]

You were born on Pitcairn, weren't you?

[Glenda]

Yes, I was, yes.

[Luke Jones]

Can you remember, what was your. What was your earliest memory?

[Glenda]

You're gonna take me back. Help me out here, Sandy.

[Luke Jones]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't want to start with something upsetting. Glend is a survivor of the child abuse scandal that Peter George and Rob Vinson from Kent police and Karen Vaughan from New Zealand police were slowly starting to uncover in the early 2000s. The investigation was called Operation Unique. It was an abuse inquiry into a small British territory, but on an enormous scale.

[Peter George]

We drew up a list of all the potential victims that would have been within that age limit from 1980 onwards. They were not obviously on picking. In fact, 90% weren't on Pitkin. Yeah. Most were in New Zealand, some in Australia.

[Luke Jones]

Well, with good reason. Not on Pitcairn, but yeah. Yeah.

[Peter George]

Without fail, every single one confirmed what had happened to them. There wasn't one that said, no, it didn't happen to me.

[Luke Jones]

Glenda told me her story in full. It's the first time she's ever spoken about it publicly.

[Glenda]

I was furious. Then they said they'll have to get me a counselor.

[Luke Jones]

So Sandy is Glenda's counselor.

[Sandy]

Reminds me a bit about a lot of the flies, how when there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with.

[Luke Jones]

This is episode four of the Pitcairn Trials. Glenda a survivor's story. It was a few years ago now that I first stumbled across an article about Operation Unique. I'd never heard of Pitcairn before. The history, the scandal, none of it. And I quickly became fascinated, not only by how all of this was slowly uncovered, but how the women, right at the center of it, battled on for justice. This was an island set up by men. It was pretty much run by men. It was a vestige of the British Empire again. Men. These women had had awful things done to them, and yet when the time came, they had the courage to fight. I waded through thousands and thousands of pages of correspondence and official paperwork, faxes and the rest. I got in touch with whoever I could who had been involved with the story at some point. And I spoke to Peter, now retired from the Kent police. And in one of my conversations with him, he mentioned that he was still in touch with one of the survivors, Glenda. He checked in with her every now and again, he said, and suggested to her and to me that we should meet. I first meet Glenda at her counsellor Sandy's house. Now, this isn't some cold treatment space with a chaise long and a desk. This is Sandy's warm living room on a gorgeous sunny English day. We've a steady stream of tea. Sandy's made samosas. I'm distracted by an adorable dog Sandy's looking after for a relative. Glenda lives in England now. She, she has done for years and as we speak I am very aware of how difficult this is for her, talking about her story out loud with me, a stranger.

[Glenda]

I'm very particular who I open up to. Very particular.

[Luke Jones]

It's extremely difficult for Glenda to share these memories. Sandy watches from an armchair supporting Glenda like she's done for years now. When you were little, what was fun?

[Glenda]

Depending on the weather, obviously a lot of it is going gnarly, swimming down in either Icex, where they've got the natural rock pools and that, or end up going down to the harbour and we'd swim in the harbour and that. It's our main thing. Either that or we'd be playing hide and seek. We also had stilts. Stilts. Walking stilts. Yeah, just running around, just doing what we feel like doing.

[Luke Jones]

When you were young and you're on the island and living the life you were, when you thought about the future, did you look at middle aged and older people on the island and think that will be me in 30, 40, 50 years? Or do you think I'm getting out

[Glenda]

of here at some point As a youngster, I didn't think like that at all. No, I just took at us day at a time. It wasn't until certain things happened that changed my mind drastically.

[Luke Jones]

Yeah, can we talk about that then? We were talking about what your earliest memory was and again, don't say anything you don't want to say. If you get upset or if it's difficult to talk about, we can absolutely stop. What can you remember from that time now?

[Glenda]

I was three. Mom and dad had gone off to. I don't know who they'd gone to visit. I was left with my grandfather. We live in a house and he's just got one annex right up the top of the side of the house. And I woke up, I thought I was dreaming and my body was Rocking, literally rocking. And I. Young as I was, I thought, what's going on? And there was this guy trying to.

[Luke Jones]

Who was that?

[Glenda]

It wasn't a family. It wasn't family. It was another guy on the island. He was an older guy. And he came back. I didn't tell Mum and Dad, but he came back the second night. And I screamed and I screamed and I screamed and Granddad came. I said, I just want Mum and Dad. I want Mum and Dad. Want Mum and Dad. And Mum eventually came. They came home. I was still crying, still upset. I just said, go to sleep. And I just couldn't sleep. I was dreading him coming back. But I think with Granddad coming down the stairs like he did, that put him off coming. So that was my first.

[Luke Jones]

And that was a person who will have been known to your parents.

[Glenda]

Everybody knows everybody on Pitcairn. And your doors and windows, yes, are always, always open. Always open.

[Luke Jones]

As Sandy points out there, it was a trusting place on the island. Doors and windows were left unlocked. Everybody knew everybody. When did it next happen?

[Glenda]

I'm not sure how old I was, but I was not sure it was in my teens or what. But it was.

[Sandy]

Glenda.

[Luke Jones]

As we sit there in Sandy's living room, Glenda freezes as those memories come back.

[Sandy]

Okay, you're right. Okay.

[Luke Jones]

Sandy comes over from her armchair and kneels in front of Glenda, takes her hands and gently rubs them.

[Sandy]

We're here in my. My room with Luke. Okay. You were thinking about something that happened probably when you were about 10 on the island. Are you able to talk about it? I think you're talking about with the other children, aren't you?

[Glenda]

Yeah, yeah, Steve. Steve, Right, Steve Christian. Yeah. Yeah, he. Gang rape, Banyan trees, Jack swirly. Yeah, he was. He did his turn and then he tried to get the others to do the same as well. Kind of. Couple tried. I managed to get up and I ran home. No, I ran home. Yeah, I ran over.

[Sandy]

Okay.

[Glenda]

Yeah, it was banyan trees.

[Sandy]

It was near the banyan trees. Yeah,

[Glenda]

there was a group of us. We were going. Just walking. There was a crowd ahead of us and I got pulled behind.

[Sandy]

Right. Who was it who pulled you? Was that Steve? Yeah.

[Glenda]

Yeah, he. He raped me and he tried to get the other boys to do the same. I'm sorry.

[Sandy]

That's all right. It's all right. Can I explain to Luke about dissociation?

[Luke Jones]

As Glinda told that story and other stories, she would occasionally and suddenly just stop. I can only describe it as like watching somebody Sitting in front of you, fainting, but. But not falling over. Her face would just slowly drain of expression, but she would keep talking single words or observations and where her mind had taken her. As Sandy explained to me, it's a common experience, unfortunately for survivors of abuse at such a young age.

[Sandy]

We have the fear response through the fight or flight, but the other one is to freeze. And so that's what young children do. So when children have traumatic experiences, particularly before the age of 3, 3, then they're likely to dissociate. So it's like they're outside of their body looking down at what's happening to them. They're not experiencing it. They kind of go into denial of the experience. And then usually as they get older, they've shut all those experiences out, which I know Glenda did until the police came to visit her. For you, it's flying, isn't it, feeling that out of body experience. So it's the only way to survive. I mean, it's better than going mad, but you just are numb to what's going on. It's a bit like when you see dogs fight and when one gets their jaws around the other one, the one underneath freezes. Well, that's how Glinda coped. Okay.

[Glenda]

I've not been like this for ages.

[Sandy]

No, we haven't kind of gone over that bit recently.

[Luke Jones]

We keep pausing this conversation every now and again, have a break to talk about something else, to have more tea. But when we return, Glenda explains that even though we now know the abuse was widespread on the island, she felt like she was particularly singled out as

[Sandy]

a child who used to pick you out because you were whiter than the

[Glenda]

other children, bluntish hair.

[Sandy]

I suspect you probably stood out amongst your friends, didn't you?

[Glenda]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

But they didn't get picked on like you?

[Glenda]

No. Didn't have friends? Friends back home?

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Glenda]

Not friends.

[Sandy]

Just people you went to school with, basically, or was on young and on the island?

[Glenda]

Yeah. Just sad. Just myself, but yeah, but I mean, drained in with the swimming and everything else, but that's about it.

[Luke Jones]

She couldn't speak about what was happening to her, she says. Not to the other children, not even to her parents.

[Sandy]

When you ran home, did you tell your mum?

[Glenda]

No, No, I was ashamed because I thought it was me. They said it was me.

[Luke Jones]

Many of the adults on Pitcairn at this time, and this was the 1960s, were caught up in their own highly sexualised culture, Glenda says, with frequent affairs and at times domestic violence. Glenda told the Authorities at one point in the early 2000s that, quote, all I've associated with sex on Pitcairn is the violence that my mother and father went through. Sex on the island, she says, is when somebody grabs you and you just go along with it and you let them do what they want to you because you don't want to get hurt. That's all you associate sex with on Pitcairn, violence. If you're a child growing up through all of this, where were the safe spaces? Were there any reliable adults that you could turn to?

[Glenda]

The wife took me to the back of the church. I come home from school, and she said, you've got to stop this. I said, what? She says, chasing after the men. I said, I'm not. Yes, you are. I said, I'm not.

[Luke Jones]

Stop chasing after the men. How old were you at this point?

[Glenda]

I think I was about 13, 14. It was hard to feel safe. But you have. You hide it.

[Peter George]

Yeah.

[Glenda]

You hide that you don't feel safe. But I was always on my guard.

[Luke Jones]

Was that from your first instance of abuse? Was that the case from the age of three? Basically, you didn't feel safe.

[Glenda]

Yes.

[Luke Jones]

And even I guess that's the problem with someone attacking you in your own room, that is.

[Glenda]

Yeah.

[Luke Jones]

There's no way you can go for sanctuary back home.

[Glenda]

I come nighttime, I used. And even over here, I've done it. When the sun goes down, even now, the downstairs curtain's got to be closed, and I crouched down, and I'd be looking out the windows, and I'd be pulling the curtains as fast as I can so nobody could see me. And I carried on doing that over here for a long, long time.

[Luke Jones]

And by over here, Glenda means England, where she moved when she was 19, when she was growing up on Pitcairn, Glenda says she couldn't turn to friends, family. Even school wasn't a safe place.

[Glenda]

I had a teacher. He was despicable. During the summer, come Friday, they'd say, oh, we'll finish today, and we go swimming. He said, well, you're not going swimming. He said, you're going to go up there and you're going to do the housework. You're going to do this, you're going to do that. He'd come up and he'd take his willy out and he'd slap it on the ironing board and say, iron. And I could. And he laughed. But he actually tried to rape me. He abused me. It continued on and collared me. It was that time of the month and I needed to go and change and he got hold of me, said, I want you down here.

[Luke Jones]

Glenda remembers the teacher dragging her into a cupboard in the school, forcibly undressing her and in doing so discovering she was on her period.

[Glenda]

And oh, that's good, he said, your body's cleaning for a good fuck. And I hated my monthly severe.

[Luke Jones]

Throughout her life, these psychological scars have remained. She says, shame about her body. Glenda remembers that after her children were born, there were complications that meant she needed a partial hysterectomy.

[Glenda]

And I said to the doctor, I said, would that mean I won't have any month niece? And he said, yeah. I said, are you sure? Are you absolutely sure? And he said, absolutely sure. And he thought I was weird asking. And I said, oh, thank God for that. And nobody knew. Nobody knew.

[Luke Jones]

Nobody knew. Then in her adulthood, nobody knew. While she was still on the island as a child, as a teenager navigating this trauma as she grew up, Glenda knew she wanted to get away. Tell me about the decision to leave the island. How old are you? What was, what was happening at the time?

[Glenda]

I was 19 when I left home.

[Ben Green]

This is Ben Green from the Athletic FC podcast, and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In football, sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery to reach their full potential. And think about your phone the same way. Head into a Boost Mobile store and their team will clean up your device, check your battery health, and get you set up on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price increases, just a fresh start for your phone and your wallet. Visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

[Luke Jones]

At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member, SIPC if you sold somebody a loaded gun who you knew was in a vulnerable state and they shot themselves, I think it is murder. Just because you're using the Internet doesn't mean you get away with murder. I'm Damon Fairless, host of Hunting Warhead.

[Glenda]

This season, I take you inside the

[Luke Jones]

business of suicide and the places desperate people go when they can't find what they need in the real world. Hunting the Suicide Salesman, available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Glenda]

I met my husband. He was in the forces, Englishman, and he was in exchange with American forces, and the American forces sent him to Pitcairn. And I think he was on the island six weeks, something like that. Didn't know him the first week, second week, didn't know him.

[Luke Jones]

But then

[Glenda]

everybody was playing football and he had his bloody shoes on and we were all bare feet, and I was cussing him because I'd get kicked with bloody shoes on. And then we started going out and he proposed on the third week. On the fourth week, I said yes and he left. And I waited six months to get off the island.

[Luke Jones]

Tricky football match aside, what was the courting like? Especially as someone, as a survivor of abuse, Was it difficult to see a man and not think the worst of him?

[Glenda]

I. As I said earlier on, I get these feelings about people if that vibe's horrible. But I had a good vibe from him, a very, very good vibe.

[Luke Jones]

But not everyone was as happy as Glenda was about this.

[Glenda]

Dad was against it. He was dead against it.

[Luke Jones]

Glenda had previously been in a relationship with a doctor who was visiting Pitcairn, a relationship Glenda's dad preferred.

[Glenda]

He wanted to marry us. My father was angry because he wanted the doctor.

[Luke Jones]

So, hang on, so his logic is marry him, because then we'll get to keep the doctor. And that's why I'm going to frustrate your relationship with this other man.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Glenda]

And I said, I'm going to marry the person I've chosen. I'm going to marry the person for me, not for the people of Pitcairn. And I says, and when I get to England, I'll send you a wedding invitation. Which I did do. My father never spoke to me for six months, and it wasn't until the whistle on the ship blew to say, they want to leave, that my dad turned around and said goodbye to me. I arrived in England in May 73, and we've been married 50 years.

[Luke Jones]

Congratulations.

[Peter George]

Well done.

[Glenda]

Yeah.

[Luke Jones]

And Glenda's lived there ever since. She found a way to get through the Pitcairn trauma and build a happy family life for herself in England. Thirty years into that happy life, though, the phone rang. On the other end of the line was a woman who'd grown up on Pitcairn with Glenda. She was in tears. The police had been in touch. This woman didn't know about Glenda's abuse. But Glenda froze, telephone receiver in hand. Why were you Scared because they had

[Glenda]

given them my details, my telephone number and everything else. And he said, they'll be getting in touch with me. And I was just so scared because I didn't want it all to come out. I didn't want to upset my husband or anything. And every time the phone went, this was before mobile phone, by the way. I was reaching for the phone all the time. It eventually came the call and they made an appointment and I was abrupt, very, very abrupt to them.

[Luke Jones]

In what way?

[Glenda]

I said, well, why do you want to see me? I says, can't you just fuck off?

[Luke Jones]

They explained that one of the women they'd already interviewed said that they had once confided in Glenda about what had happened to them. So the police wanted to ask her some questions. The day finally arrived, Glenda traveled to her local police station to meet Peter George and Rob Vinson from Kent Police. Can you remember what you, what you made of them both?

[Glenda]

I just saw the Miss Enemy to start with.

[Luke Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Glenda]

I hated them.

[Luke Jones]

They took their places in the interview room. Peter and Rob, Glenda and her husband.

[Glenda]

You've got a desk there. I sat on one chair, hubby sat on another chair. And one of them was sat at the table taking the notes. I forgot what the opening question was. And all I did was I just went back as a child. I was that three year old again, literally a three year old. And then I just. Everything just opened up and I just talked and talked and talked. I just went, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Just kept going and going and going and going. And they said, could you slow down? Can you stop a minute? You're going too fast, I swear. You want to know something? I said, you fucking write fucking faster. I'm not. Stop. You want to hear it? This is all coming out. I carried on and then came to the end. They turned around to me then and said, this isn't what we come to ask you. I says, what do you fucking mean? And I said, I've opened myself for fucking what? And this is. We're just come to ask you to collaborate something.

[Luke Jones]

Peter and Robert just wanted Glenda to confirm what the other Pitcairn woman had told them about the abuse that she'd survived, that she told Glenda about all those years ago.

[Glenda]

And they said, glad we didn't mention what is, because we wouldn't have had all this. I'm laughing though, but I was. I was furious.

[Luke Jones]

The abuse that Glenda was subjected to had happened before 1980. That line that Peter, Rob and Karen had agreed to investigate back to. But as Peter said, if other cases from further back in time like this one appeared, then they would of course investigate. Glenda took a break from the interview room and through the door she could hear Peter and Rob talking to her husband.

[Glenda]

Did you know anything about this? His exact words? No. But now it makes sense of her, some of her reactions and the way she is. He says, no, I didn't know a thing about all this. I was totally exhausted because to be

[Luke Jones]

fair, this would have been the first time ever you'd have described this out loud.

[Glenda]

It is, it is. It was the first time I thought, holy shit, what have I done?

[Luke Jones]

Glenda began to panic.

[Glenda]

I was scared, I'm gonna lose the girls. All sorts of things were going through my mind. He wouldn't want to know me. But it was just the opposite, completely the opposite. I was about to go and pack my bags and leave, but hubby said, no. He says that it wasn't your fault, but he couldn't convince me because I felt it was my fault. He was giving me cuddles and he says, no, no, he said it, it's not you. He said, it's not you at all. He said, don't be silly for one minute. You said you're staying. He says, not your fault. But I couldn't accept it. I still thought it was my fault, I really did.

[Sandy]

It was because of that that they ended up getting you therapy, wasn't it? Someone contacted a social worker who contacted me. Evil. That's right. And she contacted me and asked me whether I'd be willing to work with Glenda. But I didn't really know a lot about what it was going to be about till then. But when I started talking to Glenda, she would just tell me bits and gradually we put it all together. Well, I put it all together and you were quite suicidal when you. At that time I had to write and ask for more sessions because Glenda was so suicidal.

[Luke Jones]

Sandy had regular meetings with Glenda and her family support that Glenda says was fundamental in helping her have the courage to continue to engage with the investigation. So after that initial interview with Rob and Peter, what happened next? Was there a follow up interview?

[Sandy]

Was there.

[Glenda]

They kept in touch with, they came down quite a few times to see me in that. But the worst part was actually having to see Sandy, having kept it to

[Luke Jones]

herself for so long. Sandy says that Glenda was incredibly scared of losing control of her story, of it all becoming public at some point.

[Glenda]

When I first met Sandy, I went in and. And I said to her, I said, I'm here because I was fucking told. I had to. My language was blue. And I said, and I had to come and everything else. So that's how we started off as.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Glenda]

And I didn't want it to. And I hated her guts and everything else. And they're looking, but it was horrendous.

[Luke Jones]

They continued to work together, Glenda and Sandy, talking about Glenda's life as a child, the abuse, the way she had learned to deal with and cope with it. And for Glenda, it was revelatory ways in which she had reacted to events in her adult life began to make sense to her and to her family.

[Sandy]

And as you get older, it's harder to keep a lid on those things. And it did affect you with your girls, didn't it? It did, yeah.

[Luke Jones]

Your own daughters.

[Glenda]

Yeah. I mean, when I've walked the streets looking for my youngest one in my pajamas, in my dressing gown, she says, I'm going to go to visit a friend and she don't come back when she should have done. It was really horrible. But I'd be out walking the street looking for her, wondering, and I'm gonna find her dead in a gutter somewhere or raped. It was horrible. And then I just go ballistic when I do find her. I literally go ballistic.

[Sandy]

Kind of outside of your control.

[Glenda]

Yeah. I just couldn't. And hubby went through quite a bit as well.

[Luke Jones]

Glenda now joined the growing number of other women who had told their stories to Peter, Rob and Karen. Operation Unique. 25 victims in total, accusing 30 suspects, all of them from a British territory in the South Pacific with 50 or so residents. Glenda had survived the abuse. She'd escaped the clutches of Pitcairn and had managed to create a new and happy and loving life for herself. The past had now returned, but she was ready to fight. Was the British government, though the international legal community, did they have the fight in them? Could they even bring prosecutions on this? Or did the establishment feel that there was too much at risk for Pitcairn?

[Peter George]

You couldn't possibly hold trials on, not at that time, because there was no. No legal system there. One of the magistrates was a suspect. So what do you do? Everyone was a suspect, Every male, really.

[Luke Jones]

And wasn't there concern as well, that if we prosecute and end up putting behind bars most of the men on the island, what else can happen to the island?

[Peter George]

Exactly. They rely on the men on the island to run the longboats to trade with the ships and load and unload. It was going to be a real problem. I couldn't really see quite how this was going to be dealt with, I must admit. Well, I don't know. We've got to present the facts. It's somebody else's problem. How to how to do it.

[Luke Jones]

Whose problem though? That's next time on the picture Pitcairn Trials Episode 5 Order Order. The Pitcairn Trials were an audio Always production. The series was presented by me, Luke Jones, produced by Lucy Ditchmont, our assistant producer was Mansi Vithlani, sound design by Craig Edmondson and the Executive Producer is Joe Meek. If you've been affected by anything in this story and you would like to speak to somebody, there is a list and links to organizations that can offer help and advice on our show page.

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