Podcast: Many Minds (LS 41 · TOP 1.5% what is this?)
Episode: Howl, grunt, sing
Pub date: 2025-03-06

Get Podcast Transcript →
powered by Listen411 - fast audio-to-text and summarization

The tree of life is a noisy place. From one branch come hoots and howls, from another come clicks and buzzes and whines. And coming from all over you hear the swell of song. But what is all this ruckus about? Why do so many animals communicate with sound? What kinds of meaning do these sounds convey? And—beyond the case of human speech— do any of these sounds merit the label of “language”?

My guest today is Dr. Arik Kershenbaum, a zoologist at Cambridge University. Arik is an expert on vocal communication across the animal kingdom and the author of the recent book Why animals talk: The new science of animal communication.

Here, Arik and I talk about why the acoustic medium is a popular choice for complex communication. We sketch a key difference between forms of communication that are purely expressive and forms that are also referential. We discuss, in turn, Arik's field research on wolves, hyraxes, and gibbons—and talk about what makes each of these animals such a revealing case study. We evaluate our prospects for quote unquote "translating" different kinds of animal communication, and we speculate about what communication systems could look like on other planets. Along the way, Arik and I touch on: noisy versus tonal sounds; short-range versus long-range communication; chorusing and duetting; simplicity and complexity; syntax and meaning; entropy; alarm calls; dolphins, orcas, and cuttlefish; and how you can tell that wolves take a certain pleasure in howling.

Without further ado, here’s my chat with Dr. Arik Kershenbaum.

A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.

Notes and links

6:30 – In the human case, of course, our most elaborated form of communication—language—comes in both spoken and signed forms. For more on the different modalities of human language, see, e.g., our earlier episode with Dr. Neil Cohn.

7:30 – The distinction between expressive and referential communication is perhaps most strongly associated with the linguist Roman Jakobson—see, for instance, this essay. For more on the question of whether animal communication systems involve reference, see this recent (philosophical) discussion.

9:00 – For a classic example of work on predator alarm calls in vervet monkeys, see here.

13:00 – For an example of Dr. Kershenbaum’s work on wolf (and other canid) howls, see here. The study provides evidence for howling “dialects.”

24:30 - Examples of coyote chorusing can be heard here and here.

27:00 – A study showing that human listeners overestimate the size of a coyote group.

29:00 – For an example of Dr. Kershenbaum’s work on hyrax song, see here. An example hyrax song can be heard here.

34:00 – For a primer on syntax in animal acoustic communication, see here.

40:00 – Examples of gibbon song can be heard here and here.

45:00 – For a paper on the syntax and complexity of gibbon songs, see here.

48:30 – A paper by Dr. Arik Kershenbaum and colleagues on entropy and Zipf’s law in animal communication.

57:30 – A paper on Darwin’s theory of “musical protolanguage”

59:30 – An example of research on orca communication.

1:00:00 – For more about Project CETI, see here.

1:07:00 – See Dr. Kershenbaum’s other book, The Zoologist’s Guide to the Galaxy.

Recommendations

The Reign of Wolf 21, by Rick McIntyre

Through a window, by Jane Goodall

Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala.

Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here!

We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.

For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Kensy Cooperrider – Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

Howl, grunt, sing

Powered by Wave AI