From Mars to Music with Betty Who

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From Mars to Music with Betty Who"

Intrusive Thoughts by Adam Rippon, PodcastOne
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Guest: Betty Who

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Introduction and Guest Arrival (00:09 - 02:25)

Adam Rippon kicks off the episode with palpable excitement as he introduces his first-ever guest, Betty Who. The initial banter sets a warm and humorous tone, highlighting their friendship and mutual respect.

Adam Rippon [00:41]: "It's more than a pleasure. It's an honor."

Betty Who [02:25]: "I feel like you're my friend, but I never see you."

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Friendship and Connections (02:25 - 07:20)

The conversation delves into the depth of their friendship, emphasizing how digital connections bridge the gap created by physical distance. They reminisce about past events, strengthening the listener's understanding of their bond.

Betty Who [02:33]: "I see you clean your house all the time, and I'M like, that's my friend. I've been there."

Adam Rippon [07:20]: "Well, that's..."

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Stories About Dogs (07:20 - 14:14)

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around their beloved pets. Adam shares his journey from fearing dogs to becoming a devoted dog owner, while Betty offers her experiences with her two dogs, Tony and Tracy. Their anecdotes provide relatable and heartwarming insights into pet ownership.

Adam Rippon [05:25]: "Tony, however, I'm gonna get into it, Tony's the first dog I've ever had in my life."

Betty Who [03:17]: "He is a German shepherd, so he looks scary, but he's like an idiot little goose boy."

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Reality Television Experiences (14:14 - 27:02)

Both hosts discuss their ventures into reality TV. Betty reflects on her time hosting "The One That Got Away" and her thoughts on various reality shows, while Adam recounts his experience on "Mars," highlighting the challenges and unpredictability of unscripted television.

Betty Who [17:09]: "I would have maybe been very strategic where I'm like, listen, I am not going to get another dog."

Adam Rippon [24:09]: "Yes, and they did."

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Tattoos and Personal Expression (29:01 - 39:35)

Tattoos emerge as a medium of personal storytelling. Both share the stories behind their ink, revealing their artistic choices and the emotions tied to each tattoo. Betty discusses her tour tattoos, while Adam humorously talks about his minimalistic approaches.

Betty Who [36:36]: "I got a bus tattoo of this exact bus."

Adam Rippon [37:22]: "All of my tattoos are Google images that I would put into Facetune and manipulate into the exact shape I want."

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Self-Perception and Personal Growth (39:35 - 56:45)

A deep dive into self-image and personal growth, the hosts candidly discuss their insecurities and the journey to self-acceptance. Betty opens up about embracing her height and the transformative power of her stage name, while Adam shares his experiences with Lasik surgery and cataracts.

Betty Who [45:42]: "I think it takes a really secure man to not be insecure about a woman's height."

Adam Rippon [28:34]: "Post op. Sometimes feeling around, can't really tactile."

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Music and Creative Projects (56:45 - 66:44)

Betty elaborates on her music career, discussing her autobiographical song "Big," her upcoming single "Fabulous," and her EP. She highlights the collaborative process with her co-writers and the inspiration behind her music, providing listeners with an inside look into her artistic endeavors.

Betty Who [47:02]: "The song is a real representation of that. That."

Adam Rippon [52:02]: "I'm so grateful to Megan, Kabir, and Farrast."

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Humility and Life Lessons (66:44 - 69:25)

Wrapping up the episode, the conversation shifts towards humility and life lessons learned through their respective careers. They share humorous anecdotes and reflections on personal growth, leaving listeners with a sense of camaraderie and inspiration.

Betty Who [68:04]: "I am also an actor and I love to go be."

Adam Rippon [69:05]: "And we'll do them next time."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "I was so scared of Princess Love, which. The true irony of being."
  Adam Rippon [05:15]

• "The Great British Bake Off. I want to be famous enough in the UK that I can, like, be on a celebrity episode."
  Betty Who [18:48]

• "I have a new single coming out. I put out two songs, Run and Sweat."
  Betty Who [49:12]

• "Michigan Jess is like, oh, my God, please forget it."
  Betty Who [64:35]

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Conclusion

"From Mars to Music with Betty Who" offers a blend of humor, heartfelt stories, and insightful discussions. Adam Rippon and Betty Who create an engaging dialogue that not only entertains but also provides meaningful reflections on friendship, personal growth, and the complexities of life in the public eye. This episode is a testament to their chemistry and the unfiltered nature of the "Intrusive Thoughts" podcast, making it a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Intrusive Thoughts. I am your host, Adam Rippon, and today's a very big day because I'm not here alone. Usually it's. Oh, it's already started. My God. Usually it's just me, but. But today I am so lucky, because you might be saying, who is my guest? And I would go exactly, Who? Betty. Betty who?

[B]

Who? Yeah, baby. Oh, yeah. What pleasure.

[A]

It's more than a pleasure. It's an honor.

[B]

Feelings mutual.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I'm so impressed that you do an entire podcast. Just you, like, waxing poetic, like, no one to play off of you. Just, like, you've got that inner monologue locked and loaded, ready to just give to the people.

[A]

I'll tell you when I start every episode, I have maybe, like, one or two things. I am like, okay, these are top of mind. Let me talk about this.

[B]

This will be. This will be the. The guide.

[A]

Yes. And then it goes completely fucking.

[B]

Then you have no control.

[A]

No, I never had. It's where I learned I never had control.

[B]

I see. Yeah.

[A]

This is the first episode I've ever had a guest on.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. You feel extra special.

[A]

No, and I do.

[B]

You have a line of hoes coming in off to me, though. Just, like, one rotation is just, like, sitting in the. In the waiting room.

[A]

I am on a rotation.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, but I. I am really happy that you're my first guest, because 1. Before we started recording, you said, I think of you as my friend. And I went. I agree with that.

[B]

Yeah. Every time I see you, I'm like, wait, I have the best time with you. Because I feel like I'm always with my best friend Sarah, and you're always with your husband.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the four of us, who I.

[A]

Call Sara, who are like, the two Sarahs.

[B]

It is the two Sarahs. And we just, like, no matter what event we're at, because I am the kind of person who, like, I'm not trying to sit on the edge of the room and, like, drink a cocktail mysteriously, like, you will find me. The week that the last time is. The last time I saw you was when Renaissance came out and we went to the League of Their Own premiere. Is that literally the last time I saw you?

[A]

Literally, yes.

[B]

That's a long time ago. But I feel like, again, I feel like you're my friend, but I never see you.

[A]

I know, but you know what? The Internet has a way of, like, making you feel so connected.

[B]

I know. I, like, see you clean your house all the time, and I'M like, that's my friend. I've been there.

[A]

That's my friend who's cleaning his house. In his house all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I need to get you over to my house because I want you to meet my dogs.

[B]

I want to be inside of your dog's mouths.

[A]

They would love nothing. I want that more than that. I.

[B]

As I get older, I just, like, become more and more of a dog person. I didn't know I could be more of a dog person.

[A]

Did you grow up with them?

[B]

I actually didn't. I grew up with cats. Isn't that crazy? I know. I was in an apartment and I wasn't. We weren't allowed to have dogs. But my godmother, who I spent a lot of time with growing up, had, like, seven, eight dogs. She rescues dogs. So she has, like, a.

[A]

It sounds like she is a rescue.

[B]

Is a rescue. Yes. And she has, like, an acre of property that she has fenced in, because that's like, run wild. The dream.

[A]

Dream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you never have to go to a dog park?

[A]

No, I actually hate going to a dog park.

[B]

Stress. Incredibly stressful.

[A]

Do you go?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

I think that there are, like, few places absolutely worse.

[B]

I have two great experiences back to back going to a dog park. Without fail, I'm like. Like, my dog is so happy. This is so fun. And without fail, the third time I go, something horrendous and traumatic happens to.

[A]

Your dog or to, like, in the vicinity in general.

[B]

Usually it is to my something with my dog situation. He is the kind of dog that other dogs on the street see and immediately start barking. And then their owner is like, this is so weird. He, like, loves other dog. Like, he's bullied for sure. Like, they all got together and had a meeting and decided that they hate him.

[A]

Okay, so you don't think that your dog is putting off any vibe?

[B]

I think it's giving beta come and mess with me vibes. I think he's. I see him switch into alpha mode sometimes. Cause he's German shepherd, so he looks scary, but he's like a idiot little goose boy. And I find that, like, other dogs try to sort of, like, top him in a way that makes him get scared and then start to sort of, like, act out.

[A]

Okay. Anybody would if you were put in that situation to being yelled at. Stop trying to top me at the park is enough. Yeah, enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I. So I have two dogs, Tony and Tracy.

[B]

Do you feel like I talk about this a lot with my husband? Do you feel as though you had to get the second dog to keep the first dog company?

[A]

No, I never felt this way. One. I. If Tracy. Not if. When Tracy listens to this episode, I want her to know that I love her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, Tracy, I love you so much. I want her to know that we are on good terms.

[B]

She's safe. Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Tony, however, I'm gonna get into it, Tony's the first dog I've ever had in my life.

[B]

Okay. That's your. That's your son.

[A]

That is, like, from my uterus.

[B]

Yeah. You birthed him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And before I had Tony, I actually was kind of scared of dogs, if I'm being totally honest. I used to go to my friend's house, and she used to tutor me in math, and she had a dog, a bichon Frise, named Princess Love.

[B]

Oh, and those are so many words.

[A]

I was so scared of Princess. I can repeat the whole thing for you. A Bichon Frise, complete. It sounds like a salad. It sounds like a delicious salad. Yeah. I was really scared of Princess Love, which. The true irony of being.

[B]

That is so funny.

[A]

Yeah. So that's my, like, experience of dogs and then now having one. I like this.

[B]

You were afraid. What drove you to get what. Like, what moved you finally to get Tony?

[A]

I just felt like I was a person that should have an animal. Yeah. A dog.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And my husband had always had dogs. And I always felt like I would like a dog. Like, I like the idea of that.

[B]

Even though Princess Love really, truly terrorized me.

[A]

Ran around, knife in her hand. She, I'm going to get you.

[B]

And she knows what you did last summer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's been. She's long gone. Rest in peace, Princess love. She was 10 years old when I.

[B]

Was 10 years old. Pieces.

[A]

Fucking bitch.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

So when we got Tony, after having a dog for, like, a few months, I'll even say it, up to a year, I started to actually feel like I knew how to, like, hold a dog and, like, play with them. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you've never been around dogs or grew up with them, that's how.

[B]

I feel about babies. Because I am. I don't have a younger sibling. I don't have, like, cousins who've had lots of kids. I don't. I wasn't around kids who were younger than me. I, like, grew up with my age group, and now I'm an adult and have, like, held two babies in my life for 10 seconds. Like, I'm good with kids who can talk, but the second it's a baby, I'm like, whoa. Like, whoa. I don't know anything about kids. I didn't help raise little siblings. Like, I've got none of this. So I feel you in the way that I'm like, is that kid three or seven? I don't know.

[A]

Well, that's. I'm gonna go back to that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I. Cause I. I know Tracy when she's listening, she's like, you never.

[B]

You never brought.

[A]

Finished this. I'm on. On the edge. Tony is like. He's a Covid dog, so he's, like, very locked in with you. Yeah, we're locked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I need you to know that. And Tracy. So we had Tony for maybe, like, three, two or three years before we started thinking, like, maybe we should maybe get a second dog. Because I was always like, I'm can be very, like, strategic where I'm like, listen, I am not going to get another dog. I'm not going to be one of those people going, my dog made it a friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'll never do that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm going to get a dog. When I go, my dog can teach another dog how to act. Right.

[B]

Because you want the good dog to teach the second dog how to be a good dog.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I get that.

[A]

Was Tony acting right? Not all the way.

[B]

Not quite. Totally all the way. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't be trusted. To do the tutoring.

[A]

Yeah. To do the babysitting.

[B]

Princess love.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. We're right back at it. And so we did find a dog. And like I said, your best friend Sarah. Call my husband Sarah. We found a dog named Sarah.

[B]

Cute.

[A]

That was not the name that she was going by because she was living with a foster. She had a different name, and so we renamed her, but her backstory is that, like, Tony is from Mexico.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Tijuana.

[B]

Yeah. Rescue.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

From a bad situation.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Tracy is from Bakersfield.

[B]

Yeah, he's sure she is.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Tracy makes me laugh. Like, that name.

[A]

Is that such a good dog name?

[B]

Such a funny. It's like when people call their dogs, like, John, and you're like, whoa, that's.

[A]

A human name, actually, because Tony is like a Borders Tony.

[B]

Tony could be a dog name or a human name. Tracy's full human. Human name, in my opinion.

[A]

I know Tracy.

[B]

Yeah, Same.

[A]

I wanted to name her Tanya, but I have a neighbor Tanya, so I. I couldn't look at my neighbor Tanya in the eye.

[B]

Was it after Ms. Harding?

[A]

It was just ironic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do so Tracy, Bakersfield, found in a dumpster. Rough.

[B]

Not great.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And let me tell you, she's still active.

[B]

Dumpster diving. Little queen.

[A]

Yeah. Seven days old.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's. Baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. She must be double, like, locked in with you, because when you get dogs before they're meant to be taken from their mothers, they're like, you're my mom.

[A]

She's not like that. She has, like, a bad attitude, but, like, in a good. Are you watching Love Island?

[B]

I'm not, actually. I'm sorry to say.

[A]

Wait.

[B]

Also, I will tell you, I got more texts in my life than when I. Like, I played the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. I got a lot of texts. I got more texts than ever in my life.

[A]

I screamed.

[B]

Love island played. And they played I Love youe Always, Forever.

[A]

Yes, I. I screamed.

[B]

When that happened, it, like, also revealed all of my Love island friends. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know who watches Love Island. And now I. I actually have receipts.

[A]

Have you?

[B]

Every single one of my friends, have.

[A]

You ever watched it?

[B]

I don't think I've ever watched it. Here's. Here's what I'll say about reality television in general. I. We are Survivor House.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

We watch Survivor. That is the one reality TV show.

[A]

That the classic cable got you.

[B]

Cbs. We watched Survivor on Spectrum. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Oh, I know. I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah.

[B]

I enjoy reality tv. And there is so much of it that I. It's kind of like sugar for me, where I'm like, I can't be trusted with this. So I have. None of it is sort of the feeling of, like, in Covid, I had never seen the Kardashians, and I decided that I was not better than America, and I needed to see what the fuss was all about. And I watched literally, like, seven seasons in two weeks.

[A]

See, I was smart about the Kardashians. Cause I never watched it on E. I went right to the Hulu.

[B]

Yeah. I think that. And, like, every time I watch an episode, I'm like, see, I could spend the rest of my life in bed watching this forever. And I just. Like, there are already too many obstacles between me and the things that I need to get done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And reality television is one of those things that I really don't allow myself to have because I actually enjoy it too much, and there's too much of it. Like, I don't watch any of the Housewives, because me either.

[A]

Which I feel like is Wrong of us, that is.

[B]

Actually, I feel like that surprises me about you.

[A]

I know. Oh, there's going to be a lot of things that surprise you about me. I'm sure.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

I'll say that if this is your worry about reality tv, Love island is definitely not the show for you because.

[B]

There'S an episode every single day.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I.

[A]

If you're watching the uk, not to cut you off, but this is really important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's about 60 hours of your life that you can say just fucking goodbye to.

[B]

Crazy. My. The girl. A friend of mine who was just opening on the girl, a woman who I love and is a friend of mine, Rossi, who was just on tour with me, was every second some girl that's like. That's my close friend. Like, shut up, Rozzy. R O Z Z. I Z Z. If you're in.

[A]

One of the most amazing singers I've literally ever heard.

[B]

She is one of the most incredible singers on the planet. She was on tour with me just recently, the last. A week ago, and basically every second that I walked in on her in a room, she was sitting and trying to catch up on Love island uk.

[A]

It's. I feel she was just like, I.

[B]

Am chained to this show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. I don't have the chains. I don't have. The chains must be. Stay broken because if you chain me up like, mommy's never getting out.

[A]

No, it's. Oh, God. And it's so funny because, like, nothing happens, but so much happens.

[B]

I do feel outside of, like, there are things that happen in reality television world. Like, I haven't watched Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and that's like, what everybody's talking about.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Okay. That's what we're going to. I'm going to come over and we're going to watch the pilot episode of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives.

[A]

Yeah. Or we also should start a Housewives.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You and me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the Sarahs.

[A]

And we'll bring the Sarahs.

[B]

Okay. I love this plan.

[A]

Yeah. We should definitely. Because I've been trying to figure out a way of, like, how do I get into them? Because I know that I'll love it.

[B]

Yeah. I do know. Yeah. That's just. I sort of. It's like I. I look at like a. You know when you go into a bakery and you're looking at the window and you're like, I could eat every single one of these things? Like, that is. You replace the baked items with reality television. And that's how I feel I'm just like. But I. I can't. Yeah, I can't, baby.

[A]

Actually, you know what? You're making me think of something. Not too. I mean, I guess it was a few years ago you texted me and asked me what I thought of Mars.

[B]

Oh, you remember the show?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they. I guess they never did a season two.

[B]

Isn't that so funny? You and I both have the unique experience of being a part of one single season of reality television that never got picked up for a second season, which is really crazy. Yeah. Did you. How did you enjoy that experience?

[A]

I mean, it was. That was crazy.

[B]

UNT tinashe.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Holding it down.

[A]

Holding it down. What did they tell you about it?

[B]

So I was just, I. I had one sheet of reality shows that were filming and that I was having conversations of trying to get in on some. Something at the time I was like in between records and I didn't want to go into the studio and I.

[A]

Was like, I'd rather go to Mars.

[B]

I'd rather go to Mars. I had just done this one season of. I'd hosted a dating show, the one that got away on Amazon.

[A]

I remember that.

[B]

By the way, I maintain that the concept of this show is brilliant. It's, you arrive through a port, you show up in outside of time and space. The idea is that the show takes you out of right place, right time, and just puts you into now. And you get to decide what that means. Because relationships come and they go and you go, I loved this person. But they were in a place in their life. It's like. And because it's reality television, like, you have to hire a bunch of young hot people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the show should have probably been for elderly people. And if the success of the Golden Bachelor is any indication, I remember watching that is a season of television that I did watch because I just thought it was so sweet. And I was like, this is what the one that got away should have been is older people who's like, my husband died, but my first boyfriend in high school was like the person that I always thought of as being the one that got away after I like, had this beautiful life with my partner. And now I want to see like a second chance at love. It's like, you're not getting a second chance at love when you're 22. Do you know what I mean? That's the one thing that barely had a first chance at love.

[A]

Yeah. Also you're 22.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, come on. So I loved making that show so much and was getting all this feedback from the people making the show that I was good. In reality, like, you are someone that I consider to be an excellent host. I mean, you do the show by yourself. That's like the craziest thing. You have to be like, host, Post game on 100 to sit and have a conversation with yourself, let alone then creating space for other people. Yeah, I'm sure it is. I don't enjoy being by myself. I prefer having guests, so I'm so impressed.

[A]

Me too. But, like. And yet I. But sometimes it's also easier. There's a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That you have to get off your chest. I'm sure that if you got started.

[B]

Maybe it just slow.

[A]

Oh, yeah. It flows too easy sometimes. Sometimes you just start a show and you're like, let's just get into it. And then all of a sudden you're talk. Talking about the. The order of elements of how you shower.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. Let me tell you about this.

[A]

And it sounds intrusive thoughts. It's literally. It's intrusive. And you just say it as you go. You might like it.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe it just scares me too much and that's. Maybe I should lean in. Yeah. But I just. Question.

[A]

Yeah, please, please. Okay. My question is, is there any, like, reality show that you would do or that you've always wanted Survivor? Would you.

[B]

Absolutely not. Never. Even if the. If the.

[A]

I'd have to literally call the episode and be like, we gotta go.

[B]

If you. If the prize was a billion dollars, it wouldn't matter. It would not matter. You could not get me on that island. I will say I went to my favorite sushi spot the other night for dinner, and Jeff Probst sat down at the table next to me, and I was actually. My husband went, and he never. He's not a gasper. Do you know what I mean? He doesn't gosp. Like, that's not his vibe. And I was like, what? You're making me nervous. And I look, I see him, and I kind of like, to my left, I look, and he's wearing a hat. And I kind of couldn't tell it was him and his family. And then I was like, whoa, that's Jeff Probst. And I was. That was a. That feels like a celebrity sighting in the wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's like, crazy, crazy, crazy.

[A]

You should be on an island.

[B]

Harry Styles could have been at the dinner, and I'd be like, yeah, that's her, sure. But like, Jeff Probst. Yeah, like that was so exciting. So, no, I would never. I hate being cold. I hate bugs, which are the two things that I think. And I'm. I am the worst version of myself when I'm hungry. So I go, like, those are kind of the benchmark things that you have to be able to deal with on the island.

[A]

And wet and hot and dry. You have to do all of the. You have to do the extreme of every single state a human body could be in.

[B]

I would throw myself into the challenges. One million percent. The challenges look so fun. And I've heard that they test them in la. And I have. That's, like, a goal. A dream of mine is to, like, find out who runs the testing of the Survivor courses.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, like, take my husband to do that. Cause that would be his dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah, no, it's just. It's not. Wouldn't be for me, to be honest. My favorite reality show of all time is the Great British Bake Off. And they're doing, like, a great American Bake Off.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I am, like, emailing my agents every other day, being like, so how.

[A]

We need to get you to the uk, though. I know.

[B]

I want to do the uk.

[A]

Those people on the Great British Bake.

[B]

Off, Allison and Noel, are like, I'm literally obsessed with them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it's so. I love. I also, like, because I grew up in Australia, so I love British humor because it's so silly. Do you know what I mean? Like, the way that they open every episode. Like, my mom, who is American, tried and true, grew up here. We'll watch it.

[A]

Always said that about her. Always tried and true.

[B]

And that's what I've always said. She'll be like, that was so dumb. And I'm like, giggling. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, they just, like, I slapped my knee a little bit. I'm like, they just get me. I think it's so silly, and I love how silly it is. And then. But it's so earnest. And all of them are just, like. They're all so sweet to each other. And I just. I think it's so, like, typically un American. Like, this. The version of that show. Yes. I just love.

[A]

Well, the people are, like, so uncompetitive that it's jarring.

[B]

Yeah. I want to. I need to be famous enough in the UK that I can, like, be on a celebrity episode of the Great British Bake Off.

[A]

I feel like we could make that happen.

[B]

You're gonna call Maz and I'm gonna Go.

[A]

Hey, you guys. Well, and because this episode comes out, they're gonna be calling.

[B]

Believe they better. When I. When I saw that you were doing the Mars thing, well, because it shot in the Australian Outback, and I have an Australian passport, which was, like, a part of the conversation that I'm, like, technically local hire. Do you know what I mean? Like, Visa vibes. So I was, like, ready to go.

[A]

Did you ever live in Australia?

[B]

Yeah, I grew up there.

[A]

Of course you did.

[B]

Till I was 15, and then I moved here for high school.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Performing arts high school.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So I. Yeah. So I still have an Australian American passport. I'm a dual citizen.

[A]

But, yeah, it was gonna film in the Outback.

[B]

The Outback. And did you. Did you take anything away from it that you're like, the rest of my life, I will always, like, have this part of my personality because of this show, or were you like, okay, that was a weird month of my life anyway.

[A]

You know, the thing that I took away from it was that, like, I don't think I could ever take anything seriously because I could see what it was doing to the people around me.

[B]

Who did take it seriously. Yes. I see. And it was, like, breaking people.

[A]

Yeah. And they were going, I'm trying to live life like, it's on Mars. And I was like, no, you need.

[B]

To slap TV show.

[A]

You're in a rec center.

[B]

Yeah. I need you to, like, this is a set. Drop in for a second.

[A]

Yeah. The toilets attached to a bucket behind a wall.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You guys.

[B]

Yeah. This is not the Mashin.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know, I. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this on this podcast before, but Secrets. It's actually so good that when they were, like, casting that show, they had one or two people. I don't know the exact number. And believe me, if I did and if I had government names, I would be sharing them with you. Who agreed to do the show. And when they found out that they.

[B]

Weren'T actually going to Maz.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They were like, well, now I'm out.

[A]

Yes. Is that.

[B]

What did you think?

[A]

Did you think that you and Tinashe were gonna go, we're gonna be the first people. Humans walk on Mars.

[B]

Live on Mars.

[A]

Live on Mars.

[B]

And then there's gonna be an entire film crew that make a TV show about it on FOX on this summer. Mars on Fox.

[A]

Yes. And they did.

[B]

That's really funny. And doesn't. Doesn't surprise me as much as I wish that it did. I will say, like, in my experience of doing the one that got away, like, I was so blown away by sort of, like, all of the hands that have to come together and make reality tv. It is like, an art form that some people are incredibly gifted at. And I was working with really gifted people, so I felt really lucky to, like, pull the curtain back and have this experience. It's also changed, you know, too much as well. It's changed how I watch reality television 100%. But I found that especially when you're making the first season of a television show, like, you're just figuring it out. Like, on the last week of shooting the show, I felt like everybody knew what we were doing, and so we were all kind of like, fingers crossed. Like, please give us a season two, because now we're ready to do it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, you have to be able to throw stuff at the wall and find your way. Cause that's how real. It's not scripted. You're not telling a story that everybody has approved in advance. Like, you have ideas of, this person's probably gonna date this person. We've gotten them to say that they're gonna pick this person, but then they don't pick that person, and now you have to rearrange. And it's, like, such a magic act the whole time that I was so disappointed that we didn't have a chance to kind of, like, do it right this time.

[A]

Right. Because you could do it how you were doing it by the end from.

[B]

The beginning, the beginning of the season, and really, like, be able to find your footing, you know? And I. We didn't really get that chance. And I was always really bummed about that. Would you go back to Maz, literally?

[A]

No.

[B]

Never for a second in your. Didn't you win?

[A]

Yeah, I pass out. Yes. No, it was.

[B]

That's so. It's so funny that you're the one who was like, guys, we're not really on Maz, and you won.

[A]

Well, okay, first of all, I go there, and I do the first episode, and I text my. The first episode goes like this. Let me tell you about this, please. So the first episode is, like, there's. There's a satellite dish that's fallen, and it's in a windstorm, and you guys need to go out and pick up the satellite dish and the full suits. Like, so it's a.

[B]

We're on.

[A]

It's like a. Basically, it's the tightest, like, neoprene holiday outfit that you can wear. And I say holiday because it's, like, spirit Halloween. Outfit.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

From the neck down. Okay. Neoprene. That's really important because this is gonna get dirty and it's gonna hold on to water. You need to know that again, something.

[B]

We would have maybe fixed in the second season.

[A]

Or not. Or not.

[B]

That's the whole point.

[A]

Then you're gonna wear a backpack, right? That's about £40. And then you're gonna wear like truly, like from the Hollywood junkyard. They like search it and put a helmet on, which is another like 10, 20 pounds. Okay. And you're gonna wear this like, backpack and like walk around and I'll. I want you to know that the backpack is like, to simulate like an air filter, which it's just going.

[B]

Cause you're on Earth because you're not on Mars.

[A]

Yes. And they're like, no, there's a fan built in there, not doing anything. It's the hotter than hell in here.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And I'll tell you, when they lock into that helmet, you're like, oh, I'm like, I would. I'm gonna die in here. Yeah, I'm gonna die.

[B]

Do they have you like sign a waiver saying if I die on this show?

[A]

I probably signed some docusign reply. Yeah, whatever. I threw back a gabapentin and gave it my best shot. So the first episode, Dust Store storm. Right. Windstorm, satellite, we get out there and if you've ever done like any television show or anything before, you know that like. I'm not saying this to you. I'm saying this to the. To Tracy, who's still listening.

[B]

Yeah. That avid listener.

[A]

Oh my God. Number one listener, never on the pod. That if something is like, not right, they'll reset the shot.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

So it's crazy out there. Let me tell you. It's absolutely. And so fake.

[B]

Windstorm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's like blowing. And so where we were in the outback, the terrain is orange, dusty. Yes. So it looks like Mars.

[B]

What state were you in? Western Australia.

[A]

I was in the state of absolute denial.

[B]

Hey, never mind.

[A]

I was in Coober Pedy. Right in the middle.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What does that mean to you?

[B]

Absolutely nothing. Please continue. Okay. Okay. I want to say maybe the Northern Territory.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If not like the far reaches of like New South Wales or South Australia. But I figured everything you're saying sounds.

[A]

So fascinating and I've.

[B]

And I nothing about it. Great, keep going.

[A]

Great. So Windstorm.

[B]

Yeah. Like huge fan. Like industrial sized fans. Okay, great. Because you're locked into this suit.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm gonna Take a side step. A few years ago, I decided that I was gonna do a whole body redo. And part of that was I didn't want to wear contacts anymore, so I wanted to get lasik. So I go to the doctor and he's like, I'm going to Mars.

[B]

I need lasik.

[A]

I'm going to space. And I think that my retinas are going to suffer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I found out that I had the early stages of cataracts.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. So I said, what do we do, doc?

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

So I got cataract surgery. Whoa. Yeah. Don't be jealous. It's truly, truly awful. So I got it so that I could get the lasik.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Long story short. Okay. So I steps. Yeah. Well, if you have cataract, you never need to get it again.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Because they cut the front of your eye off and they put it like.

[B]

A. I don't wanna. We don't have to.

[A]

Long story short, I have cataracts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which. What does this mean? Let me tell you. In low light, sometimes I can't see.

[B]

Like, depth very well.

[A]

No. Just like, it's much darker than it ever was. Re op.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Post op. Sometimes feeling around, can't really tactile.

[B]

Okay. Like waiting for your night vision to kick in.

[A]

Or can we get a light on? Like, I. It's sometimes, especially when the low. When the lights are a bit low. Not the best. When my grandmother, God rest her soul, would be driving around at night, she would go, I see halos. And I was like, what an old bat you. I see them all the time going, oh, my grandma halos, everyone.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So in the helm. Can't see a thing.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And this dust is getting into the helmet because it's not certified space.

[B]

Right. It just feels like an oversight, but okay.

[A]

And it's. And I'm like, this is dirt and dust. It was turmeric powder. So, like, I'm laughing, so it's like tumor. But I'm thinking I'm dying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know that it's so chaotic that we're gonna have to reset. How can anybody see anything? So I take a step back behind the camera. And so then there's another camera that, like, gets a shot of me that's truly behind a camera. And I didn't know that there's like, Chris Mintz Platts, McLovin and Natasha Leggero were, like, all standing right there. And it's just like, these three losers just not doing anything. Cause I was like, they'll Reset.

[B]

Yeah. Nobody can see.

[A]

No. And they kept going.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so I'm left behind.

[B]

Adam is left behind.

[A]

Adam's leaving this life behind.

[B]

I see.

[A]

And so I finished that, and I texted my husband. I said, I'm not making it very far in this show.

[B]

And yet people cracked. Yeah. And you didn't crack.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They couldn't. They couldn't break your soul.

[A]

You can't crack somebody who's been.

[B]

Who's. Who's. Who stays cracked.

[A]

Yeah. If they've already broken.

[B]

I'm in a season of my life where a couple things have happened recently where I was like, wow. I didn't realize that I could be any more humbled than I already have been in my. In my days. And like, truly, the experiences that I have had in the last month, I've been like, wow. Like, it is only I thought I. Ladies. My expectation. They're. They're in the basement. You don't need to manage my expectations. They are like, in hell.

[A]

Like, I do have an example of one of these.

[B]

I have a story for you, Adam. Okay.

[A]

Please, now is the time. If there were ever a time.

[B]

This is a real story.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So on a tour bus. I don't know if you know this about rock and roll touring. We do have a bathroom on the bus. It usually has a. Like, sometimes has a shower.

[A]

I don't really show lazy shower disclaimer before we even get started. I'm ready.

[B]

Okay. There's usually a shower. I don't ever use it because spooky, like, bus water. I'm like, it's like in need of emergency only kind of shower.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There is a toilet. You can pee in it, but you cannot put any waste or like, even toilet paper products in the toilet. So as a woman, you pee and then you wipe and you put the toilet paper in the trash can next to the bathroom. So no solids go in the toilet at all. No pooping on the bus. Okay.

[A]

And toilet paper is considered solid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's where we're at.

[A]

I hate that.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's just pee only. Okay. Okay. So everybody knows the rule. No pooping on the bus. So I am on my tour bus and I wake up at like three in the morning because the smell of human feces is so overwhelming to me that in my head I go, somebody on the bus. Like, who? What? Which? On the bus, like, they'll be hearing from me about this in the morning. But it's four in the morning.

[A]

You were hearing from them. I was hearing from them that Night.

[B]

So I went, I can't do this. And I fell back asleep. I wake up in the morning, I still smell poop. And I go outside the bus and we're pulling into World Pride. World Pride was like, the event that I was the most excited about. Olsama signature scent. Signature scent poop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At World Pride.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I show up. It's like 8:30. We have to get off the bus because they have to like, check the bus for. They have like, a bomb dog. It's like a full security moment. And I'm like, thank you. But also, like, don't make me get out of bed because, like, this is where I sleep. I'm. I usually sleep until like, 10. And it's like 8 o'. Clock. And they're like, everybody off the bus. I was like, oh, my God. Especially after I Woke up at 4am Smelling poop.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I wake up and I'm like, what is that smell? And my. And my stage manager goes, oh, you didn't hear? Our bus driver saved our lives last night. He was driving behind. No. Yeah. No. The story gets. We haven't even gotten to the story.

[A]

You didn't hear.

[B]

You didn't hear me waking up being like, what do you mean? The bus was following a septic trailer tanker filled to the brim.

[A]

My eyes are two dinner plates filled.

[B]

To the brim with thousands of gallons of human waste. The bus driver watches the tank in front of him jackknife and proceed to roll and explode human waste all over the highway. We. He saves our lives by not getting into an accident. Because bus accidents, like, can kill people. Their people break their backs. Like, if you get into an accident on a tour bus, it's really, really serious.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've been in a minor accident, and it was like the scariest moment of my life. So he doesn't get us into an accident which is like, thank you, John King forever.

[A]

King John King John forever.

[B]

He drove us through the human waste.

[A]

Well, if there's no way.

[B]

But he's trying to not kill us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hits the slicks. In all, in many ways, it's the slicks. We're slicking through that human waste. So he takes a second because it's also like, scary to be the driver and have a moment like that. So he gets off the road, collects himself, immediately goes to a bus wash. Because the outside of the bus is covered in human waste. Goes through the bus wash. I'm pretty sure multiple times does not get rid of the smell. So we are pulling into world pride at 8am and you're asleep through it all, Everyone is talking about it. Everyone's like, what is that smell? And everyone's like, it's Betty who's bus.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No.

[B]

I'm the poop bus girl at World Pride. And I'm like, this is such a great moment. I'm so excited to be here. Like, I love dc. This is my biggest market, and I am the poop bus girl. The best part or worst part, depending on how you're looking at it. A week goes by. The smell does eventually, like, go away.

[A]

A week?

[B]

A week. I'm not. I'm not kidding you. It took like, a week for the smell to erode. Yeah. So every time you're getting onto the bus, you're like, ugh. In the bus, it didn't smell, which was nice. When you're in. When you're laying in the bus, what a luxury. Thank God I'm in my little bunk going, human waste. Can't smell it. Get off the bus. I'm like, there it is. The best slash west pot is that Jennifer Lopez's people come by the stage because the bus is parked by the stage and they go, hey, you're gonna have to move that bus stop by 8pm When Jennifer gets here, because this will be an affront to her senses and she's a very sensitive nose, and you're gonna have to move this bus. So I was kicked out of World Pride early. I had intended. There were interviews completely speechless. There are interviews of me being like, I can't wait to. I'm gonna, like, take my drag off and go, like, drink a tequila soda and watch Jennifer Lopez. That's, like, all I wanted to do.

[A]

But I was covered in shit. They're like, are you sure you're okay?

[B]

I was kicked off site by Jennifer Lopez because the bus was so smelly that they would not allow us to stay on property past the time that she would be arriving. I'm not kidding when I say it was like, I sat outside the bus after our set, smelling the shit in the. Really sitting. When you talk about sitting in the.

[A]

Shit, marinating in it.

[B]

That was really a moment for me. I, like, fully had, like, a moment of being, like, 12 years in. I'm the poop bus girl, and this is my life. Like, I didn't know I needed to be humbled anymore. And this is, like, all anybody can talk about is how bad my bus smells.

[A]

Well, you can't poop in the bus.

[B]

But you can poop all over the Outside of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will tell you, in Indianapolis, I went and I got a bus tattoo of. This is our exact bus.

[A]

That's the poop bus.

[B]

And it's got little smell lines coming out of it. Wow. So poop bus forever. Because you gotta, you know, really embrace.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, what are you gonna do?

[B]

You know, your adversity, but, yeah. So I just, like. I continue to be humbled in ways that I. I'm not quite sure I know how to handle, but then it happens, and I go, all right, I'm the poop bus girl.

[A]

You have so many tattoos, by the way.

[B]

I do. I know this one. This is my arm. That's really.

[A]

Do you like to get, like, new ones every time you have like, a. Like a, like, moment, like a poop bus?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I do. There is, like, a tour tattoo, you know, kind of like. I've gotten a lot of these on tour. I have the lost. When I went on the big tour. The single from that record is called Blow Out My Candle. So I have a little candle.

[A]

I have a little candle, too. Mine are all white. Whoa. Can you see?

[B]

I can. I thought you were joking, but I do see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. We're kind of twins.

[A]

Yours look well. Yours are, like, very beautiful and well done.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Mine are Google images that I would put into Facetune and manipulate into the exact shape I want.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And then I would go on yelp.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

And I would find out who was ever having a deal.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Then I would get there, and whatever the deal was, I would offer them $10 less if I paid in cash.

[B]

Whoa. What a strategy for tattoos. That. That isn't how I have approached it, and I obviously.

[A]

No.

[B]

So why'd you do them all in white? Is it for.

[A]

I knew I couldn't commit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I do it. Forget it.

[B]

It's not the Olympian in you. It was just like, oh. I just.

[A]

I knew I would hate it. I have a few. I have, like, seven of them.

[B]

Okay. Do you have an Olympics? No, I don't. No. You didn't do the rings? I don't know. Like, just for the listeners. He just, like. There was a shrug and an eye roll at the same time. That just felt so. Je ne sais quoi. And I needed you to see it in your head. I just.

[A]

I don't know. Like, I see. I've seen them so many times.

[B]

It's been done. Yeah, sure.

[A]

I was trying to think of, like. And no. And I think I'm, like, over my Tattoo phase. Yeah, it was your yellow phase. Oh, yeah. They're like, we'll give you another $5 off for a review. I'm like, whoa. Really loved working with. What's your name?

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah. I got all seven tattoos done at a different place.

[B]

Mine are often, you know, from all over the world. Like, one of my. My big. I have a pinup girl on my arm.

[A]

That's gorgeous.

[B]

That was done by, like, a famous guy in Amsterdam who does pinups. So I was on tour in Amsterdam, and I found this shop, and he was there and didn't have anybody in the shop. And I was like, will you see me? It was just like, a lot of them are timing kind of working out perfectly.

[A]

You're like, I'm poop bus girl.

[B]

I am.

[A]

It's me, the girl with the poop bus.

[B]

What smells so bad, Betty?

[A]

Me.

[B]

Oh, God. And, you know, I think a lot of them. I'm definitely past the place of being. Like, I don't have a list of things I still want to get for the most part. Like, my, like, lucky hand in poker is a pair of twos. So I have a pair of twos on my shoulder. Like, the things that I'm like, oh, that would be a great tattoo thing.

[A]

To even say my lucky hand in poker.

[B]

I don't even know what that means, because it's the worst pair that you can possibly have. And people never think that you're gonna bet there. I. If I'm all in, you're like, she has full house. You know what I mean? That's like, she has got it. And I'm like, no, I have a pair of twos, because I bet I will. I will bet on a pair of twos every time. It's, like, my secret. Now.

[A]

Now you all know and do you all always win?

[B]

Not always, but I will. I will lose on a pair of twos happily.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

The principle of it?

[B]

Yeah. It's just, like, something that I've decided is, like, my favorite thing, and I often win on it because nobody thinks. Everyone thinks I'm like, have a better hand. And I'm like, no, it was my pair of twos. Okay, do me.

[A]

Well, the universe is smiling down at you. Yeah.

[B]

I did the best thing that could ever happen. Four of a kind is very rare, obviously, in poker, and I have had a four of a kind twos before, which felt like double. Like the power of Jesus herself was, like, flowing through.

[A]

There's nothing that at that point. Call it quits. Everybody.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I got my tarot card for my. I'm a Libra. So the justice card is my tarot card, and I love tarot. And so this was, like, one that I really wanted to get. So now I'm at the place where.

[A]

Do you know how to read tarot?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I have a deck that I am obsessed with, and I'll bring when I come over, Tony and Tracy.

[A]

Oh, my God. I love that.

[B]

I think that it's really about the deck. Like, if you handed me your deck, I wouldn't know what to do with it. It's like, this is my deck. And the thing with tarot cards is you're meant to be. You're not meant to buy it for yourself. You know this.

[A]

No.

[B]

So someone's meant to gift you your tarot. Oh, so, like, you're not meant to buy a deck for yourself. It's, like, meant to come to you. And a really friend in high school's mother had a coffee shop, and I was, like, looking around her coffee shop, and she had all these cool Tara cards, and I was like, oh, I love this. And she was like, you're not allowed to buy it for your. And she bought it for me. And it's been like my lucky deck. It's called the oracle tarot. It's very witchy and really positive. I love where it's like, this is what you need to work on. But never fear. This is how it can be good in the end if you just focus on these things. And she reads me where I'll just pull a card and be like, damn. Whoa. So I charge it. In the full moon tonight. I actually have to put my tarot cards out.

[A]

It's like the full moon. I have a bucket of crystals that I wash. Yeah. Because you got to cleanse them. And. Thank you.

[B]

You charge them, baby.

[A]

And then I put them all outside.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On my balcony.

[B]

So tonight.

[A]

Tonight.

[B]

Tonight we're charging. Yeah. Oh, so you got a little witch in you.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I always. I travel with crystals.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have.

[B]

What's your. Like. What do you feel like they do for you? Because I'm not a crystal girly, but I know people who are.

[A]

I just feel like, what's the harm? That's kind of my mentality.

[B]

Not even like, it's, like, tried and true for proven for you. It's like, why not?

[A]

I'm. Any situation that I'm in. I'm like, what? What would a little bit more of a vibration do in this situation? I'll Never have to guess on the back of this necklace. I have, because this is a visual medium.

[B]

Now.

[A]

This is a little piece of moldavite.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which is supposed to be very, like, intense, but it's with, like, a. Another, like, desert something. Whatever.

[B]

It's supposed to.

[A]

Obviously, I'm a professional.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Desert whatever.

[A]

It's desert whatever.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

But moldavite and this other stone are like, whatever. They're not desert whatever. Thank you. Yes. Is they're not from Earth. They're from. And that's the episode, everybody. Good night. Asteroids from space.

[B]

Whoa. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you feel? I mean, you were on the show. Maz. Let's bring it full circle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you feel about space?

[A]

Hate it.

[B]

Hate it.

[A]

No, we need less space.

[B]

I. I feel that way about the ocean.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I am like, that is the space of the Earth. And I don't want to know what's down there. I don't want to explore it. No. Like, I watched the Oceangate documentary on Netflix recently, and it only.

[A]

There's no reason.

[B]

It only made me.

[A]

Reiterated the point that we don't belong down there.

[B]

That. That's not for us.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think my biggest deep fear is the deep ocean. Like. Like, not if I can't touch at the beach. I'm out.

[A]

Can you swim?

[B]

I can. Yeah, but. And I'm tall, so I can touch for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, where everybody else is swimming. My little toes are still tapping on that. On that beach bottom. Are you six? Two.

[A]

Six, two.

[B]

Big.

[A]

Okay. I'm five, seven. So when we do stand next to each other, it looks like one of those pictures of, like, Shaquille o' Neal and Simone Biles.

[B]

Yes, it is like that.

[A]

Which is kind of the way I love it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I prefer.

[B]

But your husband's tall.

[A]

Six. Four.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm surrounded. I have other, like, good friends of mine who are all above six feet.

[B]

Do you feel inside yourself like you are in the right body as a small person?

[A]

I feel like I'm in the appropriate shape for who I am supposed to be. I do feel like maybe we could.

[B]

Just like, not even. Okay. No, I think you're like, this is right.

[A]

This is. I'm supposed to be this size.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I do feel like I'm. I feel like a Chihuahua that, like, acts bigger than it is.

[B]

Totally. See, that's how I feel as well. But Zach, my husband, says that I'm a great danger who thinks I'm a Chihuahua. So I'm like. I'm just so little and sexy. Just hold me. I'm such a tiny baby. And he's 5, 10, 5, 9. Yeah, on a good day, he's 5 10, but he's really 5 9. And like, the second I put shoes on, I'm 6, 4. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's. I'm big. And he'll look at me sometimes and be like, when did you get so tall? Like, it's such a funny dynamic. What is that?

[A]

Like.

[B]

I don't notice it until I do. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think about it until.

[A]

You'Re looking down at everything.

[B]

Yeah, sometimes I do look down at Zach and I'm like, whoa, you're so little.

[A]

When did that happen?

[B]

Where's the rest? Like, sometimes he'll, like, stand on his tip, tippy toes, and he's like, you would love this. And I'm like, to be totally frank, yes, I would. But here we are. You know what I mean? I do also think that it was very, like, the reason. One of the reasons I fell in love with him when I did is because I think it takes a really secure man to not be insecure about a woman's height.

[A]

Very sexy for a short guy to be with this.

[B]

If you are 6 foot and looking at me like, I can't believe you're taller than me. Like, that's so embarrassing for you. It's so embarrassing, him being like, I'll. I'll climb this tree right fucking now. I was like, I'm obsessed with you. Thank you. Like, make me feel seen. And it's like, who cares? And I'm like, his who cares? Mentality has, like, changed my entire life because I felt I grew up so insecure and, like, you know, slouched. Tall girls, you know what I mean? It's like I was 6 foot when I was 12 years old at them, and, like, if I ever met a boy, they were four feet. Because when you're 12, boys are still basically seven.

[A]

You were six feet tall at 12.

[B]

I am a big bitch. And I have. I've been a big bitch. So, like, it's been a strange ride. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I just.

[A]

It's been a wicked ride.

[B]

Wild. Absolutely wild. So I'm. I do think that I've embraced it a lot more now. And now I'm starting to, like, see myself as the sort of, like, people be like this, like, Amazon. And I'm like, right. But in my head, I'm 5 5. Because I'm like, I just want to be so little. Like, I think it's the. The pendulum swing from, like, growing up so big. There's, like, a part of my personality that's like. But I'm just tiny. And so I think.

[A]

But it's so cool.

[B]

Yeah. So now I'm like, have embraced it and I, like, see myself as being this, like, kind of like sci fi character a little bit. Like, I.

[A]

Your song Big is one of my favorites.

[B]

That's for the. For the big girls that. Yeah. The song is very literally autobiographical as. As most of them are, but that one particularly. I remember writing that song when this co writer that I was with, we were talking about how to sort of tell this part of my story. I was like, I think that I've been trying for so long to hide the fact that I'm really tall. Like, I hire boys who are six foot as dancers only. Like, you have to be over six feet to be on stage with me. Because otherwise it's just like, I don't. I want it to not look silly. Like, I don't. You know, it's so the boy. One of the boys I hired on this last tour is six feet, and I have him in platforms, and then there's a lift inside the platform so that we're like, eye to eye. And he's not even, like, taller than me. We're like, now we're the same height.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So it's like I've been trying to hide this part of myself, sort of like disguise it for so long, and now I'm trying to accept it and share that part of myself with everybody. And the song. I was like, sometimes I like to write a song, and I'm like, okay, well, if it's called Big, maybe the sound of it should be really small. Because, like, I like to play with. If a song is sad, let's make it sound really happy and vice versa. So I was kind of talking about this, and he went to the bathroom and he came back and he was like, all right, listen, I had an epiphany when I was in the bathroom. You are this tall, like, big bitch. And that's what we're gonna write it. That's how it's gonna feel. And it has to be. I want there to be pyro. I want there to be fireworks as you're singing this song. And I was, like, very inspired and gassed up and will always be grateful to Megan, Kabir, and Farrast, who were the songwriters on that song originally, who sort of brought that out of me. And now I'm like, now I start to see it as everybody else's. It's so hard to see ourselves the way that other people see us. It's such a strange game. We, like, perceiving ourselves for social media full time, and then we're selling the version of ourselves that we think of ourselves as.

[A]

And it's so crazy.

[B]

Like, sips on the marijuana joint. Like, whoa. Like, it's so heady.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm trying to think less and be more. And so that song is a real.

[A]

Think less and be more.

[B]

That. That song is a real representation of that. That. So I have a new single coming out. I put out two songs. I just put out two songs, Run and Sweat, before I went on tour, which was so fun to, like, put some new songs in the set and get kind of my sea legs back. And now I'm working on an EP that will be out later this year. The third single is coming out in August called Fabulous. And it is fabulous. Fabulous. I'm really excited about the song. I actually wrote it with the same people I wrote Big with Megan Frost. They're some of my favorite collaborators and co writers. They. I met up with them to do a session the week after I had been to the Elton John Oscar party. Were you also there?

[A]

No.

[B]

No. I feel like that is.

[A]

I've never met.

[B]

That is somewhere that you and I would absolutely see each other completely.

[A]

Yeah. We'd find each other by, like, a burger truck or something.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

As we always do.

[B]

And then breaking our backs to Beyonce on the dance floor. Yes. And it was just such a, like, wild experience because I. In my head and heart, I'm like a normal. My husband sometimes calls me Michigan Jess because I went to high school in Michigan. And he's like, this is so Michigan Jess. Like, normal person. I'm a just. I'm just a girl.

[A]

And then I'm like, you're just a tiny, small girl.

[B]

I'm just a tiny, small, sexy little baby. And then I'm like, in a room like that, which is, like, crazy. Like, there were a lot of famouses. There were like, for real famous. Like, a list famouses. Not like, not like me, you know, like, maybe B list. Like queer famous. Do you know what I mean? This was, like, for real, A list famouses. And I was like, this is such a strange experience because we're everyone. Just the culture of it. And maybe it's like the same. If you go to, like, a corporate retreat, everyone's like, oh, hello. You know. God, you're so, you know, fabulous. Right? That's kind of the. The sort of culture of it. And I. I found myself getting so caught up in it while also Michigan Jess in my brain was like, this is so nuts. And so I went to the studio that week and we wrote this, like, totally insane. Very satirical, campy, but I think fabulous song about this experience of sort of all of us in the end are like normal people who have been like, turned into aliens who live in Hollywood completely. And it's.

[A]

We love it here.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like, funny to put on that sort of your scales and be like, I am one of you. And the song is kind of about me putting on those. Those that scale my scales, my alien face and being like, okay, like, off I go, you know, so it's. It's really kooky, but I'm excited. It's like, definitely weirder than anything I think I've ever done, which is so fun. I'm just again, trying to think less, be more.

[A]

Yeah. Well, what I love about your music is that you definitely have, like. You have like, eras, and there's all sound so different. Actually, when I was getting ready for this.

[B]

Did you go through.

[A]

I went. I went through. Not going to talk about that. I was watching interviews of. These are maybe like, these are more than 10 years old.

[B]

I'm triggered.

[A]

And we. And I say this, we collectively who lived in that time. It was crazy different. See the way that you were dressed.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy.

[A]

A little booty crazy. The thinnest jeans I've ever seen.

[B]

Oh, my God. Skinny jeans only.

[A]

And a big old, like, oversized sequined.

[B]

I'm like. I'm astral projecting out of my body.

[A]

It was nuts. Yeah. And then the. The hair.

[B]

Yeah, the short hair that was like JoJo Siwa.

[A]

Bette Davis eyes.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, she got that.

[A]

That's. That's.

[B]

She did.

[A]

It was.

[B]

Yeah. I remember when. When Jojo cut her hair, I. I really came into the conversation about. About lookalikes that really. I was really a part of a conversation I didn't really want to be a part of when. When that happened. Happened. Yeah, I. It is crazy. I have a really hard time looking back.

[A]

I think everybody does, because. Here's a go.

[B]

Here's what's crazy to me, Adam. Here's what's crazy to me, Betty. All these teenagers now have every resource at their fingertips.

[A]

No, I. I have, like, I have something to say to you after they.

[B]

Are like watching YouTubes that are like explaining actually how to do makeup. Like, I had to stab myself in the eye with an eyeliner pencil. Like, wear like the ugliest makeup you've ever seen on a 13 year old. Because that's what 13 year olds are supposed to do.

[A]

But you put in the time.

[B]

Well, yeah, now I'm like, now I feel that I. I look back at the lost. Like, maybe, I mean, but I just have trouble looking back at all. I think I'm very future focused and it's really diff. My husband, very good to be. Loves to reminisce.

[A]

Him and his mother. I'm not a reminiscent.

[B]

Him and his mother will sit and talk about generations of REM reminiscing. Like, it is actually interesting to hear them talk about it. But the second it becomes about me, I'm like, hey, if you pull up another picture of me from 2014, I will pull the rip cord and I will be gone. Like, I can't be a part of this conversation. I can't do this with you. And like, he doesn't have shame looking back. And I am just like, filled to the brim.

[A]

I'm so deeply embarrassed by some of the things that I like. I. There's this. I can literally close my eyes and picture it. I'm in a cute, like, probably unisex gaff top. Cardigan.

[B]

Yeah, sure. Cardigan.

[A]

Two polo shirts. So I'm three. Three layers of top.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The bottoms. H m. Yeah. Sort of. Which at the time I was calling European.

[B]

I'm screaming, okay. Because they were.

[A]

And they were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I'm wearing these, like, boots that are. They were half a size too big or too small. They weren't the right size. They do look like, like conchus flippers.

[B]

Yeah, sure. Duck feet.

[A]

Yes. So like, you know when a shoe is like, it's too big. When they were too big, they're too big. And you like, pull the laces so tight and like every side of like, it overlaps over itself and you're like, doesn't go like this.

[B]

These don't fit me. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

They were the only ones on sale though. And I loved these boots.

[B]

Yeah, baby. I know.

[A]

They had a wood heel, so click clack, click clack. And I loved this outfit. And I would repeat it and I have so many pictures.

[B]

Lizzie McGuire, you were an outfit repeater.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was such an iconic outfit for me. And I look back at it and I'm like, I'm gonna throw up.

[B]

It's even Crazy. It's even crazy to me. Like, I. The hair that I had was, like, a look.

[A]

Oh, I've had really incredible versions of.

[B]

My own hair that was, like, the look that I committed to for so long.

[A]

And that's what it is. Commit.

[B]

Committing.

[A]

Committing.

[B]

And I think that. That ultimately it was, like, me trying to express that I. I think my. Any time I talk to a woman who, like, has short hair. Right. It's like, I think there's a part of you that's trying to express that you're different. Yeah, right. It's like I'm trying to find myself, and I see all these women, like, hair is. Hair theory is so real. It is so, like, beautiful, long, feminine hair. I go like, I don't feel like that. So I'm trying to express to everybody, including myself, that I am unusual. I am different. I'm the hashtag weird girl. And I. I see me trying, trying to find that so much, and I think I was just like, well, now people know me as this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that haircut is, like, right on the cusp of, like, cool Brooklyn lesbian or, like, your weird Midwestern aunt who lives with her roommate Miranda, you know? And it's like you teetered the line perfectly. I think I. I dipped into Midwest, Midwestern lesbian aunt, like, a little bit more than I would have loved to. And yet, you know, that was what was real for me at the time. I started growing my hair out when I booked Hadestown because I got to wear a wig every day because I have been so afraid of the grow out phase.

[A]

Yeah, well, when you're wearing a wig, there is. It's grown.

[B]

It was hidden.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, great. This is like, I'm here for six months. Like, this is a great opportunity to let this happen. And I'm so grateful for that time where I was, like, hidden away from the world. It was so funny. I came out, my mom was in town, and I was getting dressed for an event, and I, like, came out looking, like, done up, because otherwise I'm just like, me around the house. And she's like, huh? And then she sees me done up, and she's like, wow, you're actually so beautiful. And I come out and she's like, God, your hair does really look good. I hated it in New York. And I was like. I was growing. I wore a wig every day, and I was growing it out. Like, lady, please let me live a little bit. Excuse me.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Come on, Mom.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't I am so grateful. Let's talk about humility. I have talk about being humbled. You know, you brought up my sequin shirt. I'm like astral projecting out of my body. I don't know.

[A]

Well, it threw me back to such a time.

[B]

Yeah, it was such a time because it's just like, you know, I hate to be this fucking old lady, but, like, I do miss so much. I mean, I had Facebook in high school, so like, we grew up in. We are the Facebook generation. Yeah. So I do.

[A]

Are you 91?

[B]

Yeah. You too?

[A]

89.

[B]

89.

[A]

Yeah. Even Taylor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That. That time obviously was shifting, but it didn't feel. It's like, I see like, you know, annoying millennial posts now that are like, me and my friends got together and just took pictures to put 80. To put 800 pictures in a Facebook album.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

Yes. That's beautiful. Yes. And now I just. I don't know how you humble a teenager today online in a way that isn't like, really scary and traumatizing.

[A]

What's tough is that like, what we were doing was like, it wasn't like, like raw and whatever. Like we were trying to produce stuff. Right. And now they're trying to produce being themselves. Like, it's weird. Like, it's so weird.

[B]

Self perception thing where you're like, this is who I have to be to sell myself. I mean, like, how do you feel about posting and being a content queen?

[A]

Oh, God, sometimes I'm deniable and not. It's.

[B]

Yes, it's an unavoidable part of our business now where I go. Like, I'm a musician, but my full time job is trying to put myself on the Internet. Because that's like kind of the only thing that matters, which is crazy. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, the I. If the job title. Content creator.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, but is that you, though?

[A]

No. No. Oh, my God, no. I'd rather die. I would rather you don't.

[B]

You don't take that. That name.

[A]

No, I rebuke it in the name of the Lord.

[B]

Yeah. Herself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Actually, wait, I want to ask you one last thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I'm already keeping you too long.

[B]

Great. No, we just. We could do this forever.

[A]

Okay. And we will. This will be the first episode that never ends.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Okay. Betty, who is a stage name. And you decided to do this like, in college, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Do you love that you have a stage name and does it help you, like, separate the performer and like the normal. Michigan Jess.

[B]

Michigan Jess. Well, yeah. You know, my so jealous that you.

[A]

Can like that you have a stage. That's so cool because you got to choose everything.

[B]

Yeah. My Christian name is Christian name, my government Christian name, My God given name is Jessica Newham. And that just, like, doesn't scream new ham. I think, like, the family joke is new ham, old pork. Do you know what I mean? It's not.

[A]

It's actually. I like it.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't scream, like, star power. It's not giving Madonna. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so Jessie J was really popular. Price tag was like at the top 10 when I was in college. So I felt like Jess and Jesse out of the. Was sort of out of the. Out of my. My grasp.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I had. I. I made the decision partly because I thought my name was not, like, cool enough. That's for sure a part of it. Because I. If I did have, like, you know, you hear like, rip Torn. You're like, yeah, you're not going to give yourself a stage name. Your parents gave you a stage name, right? I have, like, I have Michigan Jess is like, for real Jess. New ham is Michigan Chase. I did find I had a really interesting. Especially the time that I came up, the time of making fans. It was the beginning of social media, and I didn't really know what my relationship was supposed to be like with everybody because everybody all of a sudden had access to you. Everyone could literally DM you directly as opposed to, I make music and you show up and then I never see you again.

[A]

Right. Jeffree star MySpace.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was a really crazy time and I didn't really know how to process. It was really overwhelming for me. I didn't really know how to process it. So I do think that it's like a tell for me if someone calls me Jessica, because no one calls me Jessica, like, in my life. Unless, like, someone, my best friend is, like, making fun of me or thinks that I said something crazy. She goes, oh, Jessica. But no one is like, excuse me, Jessica, would you mind? I'm like, I come out of my body, I'm like, whoa, who's that? So if, like, someone approaches me on the street and goes, excuse me, Jessica. I'm instantly like, whoa. Unsafe.

[A]

Like, oh, yeah.

[B]

Because you're not a fan. If you're a fan, you call me Betty. You know what? So it's like you're trying to. You're trying to establish closeness, dominance in a way that I don't like.

[A]

Yes. I think that's strange.

[B]

Yeah. And if someone calls me Jess, I'm not like, well, that's weird. It doesn't feel. Jessica feels weird to me. Everything else is like, I don't care. Call me whatever you want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Hey, Queen. You know, it's like, that works for me, too. Poop, bus girl. Poop, bus girl. That's me forever. But it did help me kind of, I think, keep in my, like, own mental illness. It was useful. It's good to keep that, too, to sort of. It was useful to create this divide, as you were saying, of, like, Betty, who is a product and a thing. And I don't think I was very successful at that. Like, I think that one of the hottest parts of being a music artist is the. That if you're an actor and you book a movie and the movie does badly, some people might be like, you were horrible in that movie, but they're talking about that movie. They're not like, you're going to be horrible forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when you're a music artist, you're like, this is me, Betty who? And these are my songs. And if you don't like the songs, you don't like me. It's like the closeness of the art of it, as opposed to being a part of a. Like, a show that everybody hated. It's like, I have so many theater friends who are like, sometimes the best thing you can do is be bad and be good in a bad show. You know, it's like you have more agency to sort of protect yourself. And I think with musicians, you're really putting your heart on the line.

[A]

Well, the character is you, right? It's not like.

[B]

And I never really felt like I had found, like, a character. Like, I'm not playing Betty Boop. Do you know what I mean? Like, I ultimately just think that I am myself. I think it is an expression of. I think, if anything, the stage name sort of. It's like my Superman, like, glosses come off, and I all of a sudden get to, like, be a person who's confident enough to dance and sing in front of people and, like, demand that they clap for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When Michigan Jess is. Yeah. Is Michigan Jess is like, oh, my God, please forget it.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

For real. Michigan Jess is, like, wearing a flannel and, like, walking my dog. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, oh, my God, I would never.

[A]

Cardigan.

[B]

That was. I think. I think sequin cardigan was unfortunately, Betty, who, like, really trying to find herself. I don't think that Michigan Jess was in the sequin cardigan. Oh, my God. I remember it too. I'm sorry. Embarrassed. But I. I think that I spent a long time thinking that if I didn't have a number one song and my label wasn't thinking that I was like the best thing that ever happened and every single person on planet earth wasn't telling me that everything was right. That, like me, Michigan, Jess, like person, human Jess was not valuable. And recently it really has been in like the last five years. Like, Covid made me have to step away from touring and like, step away from everything. Like, some musicians went into Covid and just like made four album. And I just like stayed at home and waited till I could get back out of the house. It like, shut it. Put me back a couple years. And I think that in that time, like, away, I got the chance to relearn like, Jess and who that is and feel more comfortable, like, introducing myself in social situations as Jess instead of I'm Betty. Like, I was like, no, I am Jess the person. Betty who is a project that I work on and embody.

[A]

That's what I wanted to, like, know.

[B]

I am also an actor and I love to go be. I was in Hadestown on Broadway and that was like, I was under the name Betty who. But that's me, Jess, as a performer going to be in this show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, that was a really useful unlock for me because otherwise my self worth was so tied into my success. And then when that happens, no matter how much success you get, it's never gonna be enough. And so I've really tried to put a little bit of distance between me and the thing and go, cool. What would be so fun for a Betty who project as opposed to what do I, Jessica, want to do with my life? It's like the stakes are so high.

[A]

It's like way, I think healthier to like, what is that thing that, like this monster? Like, how do I feed that beast?

[B]

It's like.

[A]

Which I call you off the beast.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

She's the beast. Just coming in today. Yeah.

[B]

You know. Did you see Inside out too?

[A]

Oh, God, my favorite movie.

[B]

That movie Me up.

[A]

Yeah. Like when they started coming out with those hybrid emotions.

[B]

That's why I was like my mouth into my sweatshirt, like, making sound, sobbing at the end and that moment at the end when anxiety is like. Is kind of running rampant and she's in the circle and. And she. And it looks like a circle from the outside and Joy makes her way in and she's frozen inside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's how like being Betty who For the first seven years of my career, felt was I was like inside that circle. And now I sort of feel like I'm the other emotions who are standing outside of it and looking at the circle. And I'm like, okay, how do I feed that and work on this project and do that? But I'm not right in the middle of it and sort of frozen in fear, which is a really nice place to be.

[A]

Isn't it nice to not be in your 20s anymore?

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

There's nothing worse.

[B]

I would never be on Survivor and I would never go back to my 20s.

[A]

No. No. Never. Not in a million.

[B]

Couldn't pay me $1 trillion. Jeff Probst. Turn it back.

[A]

They're offering that to you that exact amount.

[B]

He told me at dinner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When he was sitting next to me.

[A]

How's a trillion sound, Jess? Yeah.

[B]

Jessica.

[A]

Jessica. And it freaked you out. That's what got you.

[B]

Yeah. I don't love it.

[A]

Betty who?

[B]

I could do this forever.

[A]

I really could do this forever.

[B]

I know. I feel you trying to wrap it up. And I know that it's time only to be polite.

[A]

To be polite.

[B]

But for your listeners, they're also like, God, this episode dragon.

[A]

And they're loving every second of it. Tracy. She's listening. Tracy, we love you.

[B]

She is leaving five star reviews on.

[A]

Yelp burner accounts from.

[B]

For your tattoo artists and for this podcast.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Thank you so much. Usually sometimes we do voicemails on here. We didn't do one today.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Who cares?

[B]

Because what. Who needs anybody but you and me?

[A]

Baby, you're the voice. Male.

[B]

I am a male and a voice.

[A]

Yes. But we'll do them next time. That phone number, if you want to call or text, is 310-909-9717. I'll see you next time. Eddie who? Thank you so much.

[B]

I want everybody to know before I go that he had that number locked and loaded. He doesn't have a piece of paper in front of him. He doesn't need help from the producers to get the intros right. Adam is locked and loaded. Never forgets you guys. This is. You're in good hands here.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I love you.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

Sam.