Get An $1800 Sales Average In A Small Town of 200 People with Lisa Derevycka (Re-Release)

Summary

The Portrait System Podcast: Episode Summary Title: Get An €1800 Sales Average In A Small Town of 200 People with Lisa Derevycka (Re-Release)
Host: Nikki Klosser
Guest: Lisa Derevycka
Release Date: July 9, 2025

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1. Introduction to Lisa Derevycka

In this re-released episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Klosser welcomes Lisa Derevycka, a successful portrait photographer operating from the quaint village of Nuhi en Sancerre in France, which boasts a population of just 202 people. Despite initial doubts about the viability of running a high-earning photography business in such a small community, Lisa has achieved an impressive sales average of €1,700 per client with a fully booked calendar.

2. Living and Working in a Small Town

[02:28] Lisa Derevycka:
"I live in a tiny village called Nuhi en Sancerre, which has only 202 people."

Lisa describes her picturesque setting—living on a converted farm with a spacious studio atop a barn and a cozy living space below. The location, situated on a hill, offers stunning sunrise and sunset views, complemented by surrounding forests and non-maintained farmland. This serene environment not only provides a beautiful backdrop for her photography but also creates a unique atmosphere for her clients.

3. Transition from Painting to Photography

Lisa’s journey into photography began unexpectedly. Originally a painter with a deep passion for art and teaching, she found herself needing to document her artwork. [07:04] Lisa:
"I started photography because I wanted to keep a copy of my layered paintings."

This necessity sparked her interest, leading her to pursue formal photography education through platforms like Creative Live. She experimented with wedding photography, quickly discovering a niche with her light, airy, and feminine style that contrasted the predominantly male-dominated and traditional styles of the 2012 photography scene in her area.

4. Discovering the Portrait System

In 2016, Lisa encountered the Sue Bryce Education system, which proved transformative for her business. Attending a large seminar in London, she felt an immediate and personal connection with Sue Bryce’s teachings, despite being one among 600 attendees. This epiphany motivated her to revamp her business approach by setting up a dedicated studio space and implementing unique marketing strategies.

5. Innovative Marketing in a Limited Market

Operating in a small village, Lisa recognized the need to attract clients from surrounding larger towns and even as far as Paris. [05:55] Lisa:
"I had to market differently. I had to offer something special that you couldn't get nearby."

Her first standout project was a Marie Antoinette-themed shoot, which was both extravagant and unique in her region. By showcasing the entire creative process, from conception to execution, she built a compelling narrative around her services, making her offerings irresistible to clients willing to travel for a distinctive experience.

6. The 40 over 40 Campaign and Client Experience

A cornerstone of Lisa’s success is her 40 over 40 campaign, which targets women over the age of 40, a demographic often overlooked in portrait photography. [19:36] Lisa:
"The 40 over 40 campaign gives women a reason to celebrate themselves without feeling vain."

This campaign not only fills a niche market but also fosters a sense of community and empowerment among her clients. The culmination of each campaign is an exhibition, which has been well-received by the local community and further establishes Lisa’s reputation. Additionally, Lisa emphasizes the importance of a comprehensive client experience, involving pre-shoot consultations, personalized styling, and a supportive environment during the reveal of the final photographs.

7. Pricing and Value Proposition

Lisa discusses her strategic approach to pricing, which reflects the high value and unique experience she offers. [37:38] Lisa:
"I explain that it's not just a photo shoot; it's an experience and a service."

Her pricing structure includes a session fee that covers hair and makeup, followed by tiered packages based on the number of photos and the inclusion of luxury presentation boxes. Lisa addresses common client pushback by clearly communicating the quality and exclusivity of her offerings, ensuring clients understand the value they receive.

8. Overcoming Challenges with Authenticity

Operating in a market where portraiture is less prevalent, especially in Europe, Lisa leverages authenticity and personal connection in her marketing efforts. [31:05] Lisa:
"I market authentically by showing my life on the farm, my editing process, and being open about who I am."

This transparency builds trust and attracts clients who resonate with her genuine approach. Lisa also invests significant time in networking and community involvement, which not only broadens her reach but also reinforces her standing as a trusted and relatable photographer.

9. Personal Development and Self-Value

A pivotal moment in Lisa’s career was her engagement with self-value coursework, which profoundly influenced her business practices. [51:25] Lisa:
"Working on self-value helped me embrace who I am and confidently present my authentic self to clients."

This personal growth journey enabled Lisa to overcome insecurities and fully commit to her unique style and business model, ultimately driving her success in a competitive industry.

10. Advice for Aspiring Photographers

In the concluding segments, Lisa imparts valuable advice to new photographers:

• Embrace Authenticity: "Be yourself. Only you can do what you do."
• Focus on Experience: Prioritize creating a memorable and supportive environment for clients.
• Niche Marketing: Identify and target specific demographics to stand out in the market.
• Continuous Learning: Adapt and tailor established systems to fit your unique business needs.

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Notable Quotes:

• [19:36] Lisa Derevycka:
  "The 40 over 40 campaign gives women a reason to celebrate themselves without feeling vain."

• [37:38] Lisa Derevycka:
  "I explain that it's not just a photo shoot; it's an experience and a service."

• [51:25] Lisa Derevycka:
  "Working on self-value helped me embrace who I am and confidently present my authentic self to clients."

• [58:28] Lisa Derevycka:
  "I accept the great adventure of being me. Only you can do what you do."

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Conclusion

Lisa Derevycka’s story is a testament to the power of authentic marketing, niche targeting, and comprehensive client experience in building a successful photography business, even in a small town. Her journey from artist to thriving entrepreneur offers inspiring lessons for photographers worldwide aiming to elevate their craft and business practices.

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For more insights and strategies on building a successful photography business, subscribe to The Portrait System Podcast and explore the extensive resources available at Sue Bryce Education.

Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up today. You're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I knew that I had to market differently. I knew that I had to offer something special and that you couldn't get nearby. So I found a makeup artist straight away and the first shoot I did was a sort of Marie Antoinette, powdered face, big wig kind of shoot.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hi everyone, it's Nikki Klosser and my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Lisa Daravisca. Lisa lives in France, a two hour drive from Paris in a village of get this, 202 people. 202. Lisa used to say that she didn't think she could make a good living in her town as a photographer and that people wouldn't pay industry standards. However, here she is now with a €1700 average and a fully booked calendar. Lisa talks with us about how she gets her clients to travel one, sometimes two hours to her studio and how doing a 40 over 40 campaign has been incredibly helpful for her. All right, let's get started with Lisa Daravisca. Hi Lisa, welcome to the Portrait System. How are you?

[Lisa Daravisca]

I'm Very well, thank you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hi Nikki, where are you right now? As in like geographically instead of emotionally?

[Lisa Daravisca]

I am two hours south of Paris because whenever I say I live in France, everybody says, oh, Paris is lovely. Yes, it is. But I don't live there. I live in a tiny village called Nuhi en Sancerre, which is, we are 202 people.

[Nikki Klosser]

200 and two, yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

That's a small town with an average age about 75.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh wow. Interesting.

[Lisa Daravisca]

No, it's very beautiful. It's a really lovely place to live. It's really interesting because there's a real mixicity of people. So we have people that have lived there forever and they were born there and their parents were born there and their grandparents were born there. And then we have the like us that come from all over to move and live in this place which is very, very rural.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, very interesting. Do you live on, is it like a farm sort of situation where, or is it. Yeah, it is.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Okay, so it's an old farm that we've converted. So I bought it in 2012 with my ex husband and I kept it and have spent the last six years doing part of it up. So I've got a stud that's about 150 square meters which is in the upstairs of the barn and then we live in the downstairs of the barn and then we also have a little Airbnb that we rent out.

[Nikki Klosser]

How cool is that?

[Lisa Daravisca]

And we live on a hill, so as a photographer, so we live on a hill. So we have the sunrise and the sunset.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh my goodness, that is amazing.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So you just walk the way around and we have a forest and we have like animals and stuff, although we don't, I, we don't look after those. There's a farm that does all that. But it's a really, a beautiful, really beautiful place to live.

[Nikki Klosser]

We'll have to talk separately about all of your animals because I know that's not why people are here listening, but I am very interested. We'll have to talk about that later. Okay, so 200 people. I mean I'm guessing that you are marketing not just in your town because I'm assuming that, you know, you need at least 100 clients a year and I'm assuming that you're not going to get 50% of your clients that are over 75 into your studio.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I don't know if I actually have had, apart from one family shoot. I don't think I've had anybody from the village. It's not really who I'm Marketing to. What's really interesting about where I live is I'm 45 minutes from Borges, which is my nearest big town. And then I'm an hour away from two other big towns and an hour and a half from another big town and an hour and a half, two hours from Paris. So I basically market to those towns. But obviously, I have to do something incredibly special. I can't just offer what every other photographer is offering in those towns, because why would you drive all that way if you can get the same thing?

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. So people are then driving an hour to two hours to come to you.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what I decided right from the beginning, because I. I've been a photographer a long time before I started doing this.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And before that, I was a painter. I went to art school.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, wow.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And so. And I had a proper job at some point, but now I'm not employable. Nobody could. I could never have a boss again.

[Nikki Klosser]

I am with you on that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I think when you've been doing that for yourself and you've been working for yourself over 25 years, you just. You can't go back to that. So I went to art school and worked as a painter for 12, 15 years after art school. So I taught as well. And I really loved the teaching. I worked a lot with autistic kids or kids with special needs. And then when I moved here, I was very. I worked with rural children who have no access to culture because they live in the middle of nowhere. So I did a lot of work around opening doors to cultural events, having exhibitions outside, showing work that children could go to that they didn't normally have access to, and then working around that within workshops with those children.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, my goodness. That's really interesting work. Like, important work.

[Lisa Daravisca]

It was brilliant. It was really brilliant. And I started actually. I actually even started photography because of my artwork. I was painting in red paint and gold, and it was the hardest thing to photograph because I wanted to keep a copy before I did the next layer of paint. So I was photographing my work and it just looked awful. The red wasn't right. So actually, my first photo lessons that I had was to learn how to photograph red and gold.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow. Interesting.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And then from there, as I. When you start taking photographs that people go, oh, just. I'm having a party. Come with a camera. And so it started like that. And then I had this great idea for projects. I was working with a hospital, and I was working with girls who had either anorexic or bulimia, and they were outpatients, they weren't in the hospital. They came in when they needed help. So I was working with their medical team and I wrote this idea about, around self portraiture, what we show of ourselves within self portraiture and what we keep hidden. How can we show something that we don't want to say through photography? And I wrote this project, it was a wonderful project. I was so proud of it. And I was stood explaining this project, the head of the hospital with all his staff. And I was there and I was thinking, oh, no, I'm not a good enough photographer to do this.

[Nikki Klosser]

You didn't think you were good enough?

[Lisa Daravisca]

No, and I wasn't. I really wasn't. I was a painter. I really wasn't.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right. So at the time you hadn't really like dove into the photography world yet.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Not at all.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And that was, this project was the one that made me want to learn photography for this project.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow, fascinating.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I said, I just said, well, keep it on hold and I'll come back in a year. And I was like, okay, I now need to learn photography. I've got a year to learn. Where do I start?

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh my goodness. So where did you start?

[Lisa Daravisca]

I actually started with Creative Live.

[Nikki Klosser]

Back in the day. Yep. Back when it was a thing. Yep.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And it was, it just blew my mind that there was all this free education out there and that you could dip in and see what type of photography you wanted to learn, because I had no idea. And I found Susan Stripling and absolutely loved what she did and how she saw weddings and became a wedding photographer and virtually did that as Susan Striplin said you should. And I didn't, you know, didn't really change a lot. I just did what she said, thinking I would do this at the same time as my artwork. I never thought it would be a full time business.

[Nikki Klosser]

Isn't that crazy how sometimes we, I feel like some of us are just brought up in a way that you don't think that some sort of creative outlet could actually be a business. I mean, I know you were an artist for a long time, but you know, it's, it's interesting how that works.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I always thought that it would be alongside my teaching, it'd be alongside all these other things and it would just be something I would do from time to time. And I set up the business. Honestly, within six months I was full. Oh. As a wedding photographer.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. So weddings. Yeah. Yep.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I think that was also a time. This is 2012 where I am here. There's a Lot of photographers, but it was very male dominated. It was very black and white. A lot of not at all my style. And I arrived with this light and airy, more feminine approach, perhaps, and there was just a space for it. I just arrived at the right time as well. And so I started as a wedding photographer. So 2002. 12. Sorry. I discovered Sue Brice in 2016 and went to see her in London. So there's about 5, 600 people in this room. And I know a lot of people have said this, so I am repeating a little bit because I do listen to the podcasts and I still listen to portrait systems.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's okay.

[Lisa Daravisca]

But I felt as though she was talking to me. Like there's 500 people there and she was just talking to me.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's magical how she can make that happen.

[Lisa Daravisca]

She.

[Nikki Klosser]

Things that she says are just so relatable.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah. And I was just like, there and I just like took one hit after another and spent the whole hour and a half just going, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh my God.

[Nikki Klosser]

So when you, you know, obviously after Sue's talk, you decided you were gonna do, you know, make some changes in your business or do some things differently.

[Lisa Daravisca]

What.

[Nikki Klosser]

What happened from there?

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I literally took over a bedroom in my house and set it up as a studio and just went, let's see. Hmm. So I knew that I had to market differently. I knew that I had to offer something special and that you couldn't get nearby. So I found a makeup artist straight away. And the first shoot I did was a sort of Marie Antoinette, powdered face, big wig kind of shoot. And I went full in with something outrageous that nobody was doing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Draw that attention.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And then I show the process through. So I threw that out there and then I did the whole series. So on the day, we actually did five different shoots and had different dresses and everything. And it ended up with Marie Antoinette. So I threw that out there and then showed everything else behind and how we got to it. And so for me, it was from right from the beginning. When I look back now, because it's very easy to look back, isn't it? It was always the process and helping the client through the process and being there so they don't just arrive. There's a shoot, there's a whole series, and there's a whole service around that so that they feel comfortable, so they feel as though they can do it, but so that they don't feel alone. And there's about 12 steps to get to that point.

[Nikki Klosser]

12. It's a lot of steps, but. But that shows me that you are providing a really great customer service.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah. And I think also it's. Yeah, it has to be wonderful. And. Because the majority of my clients have never been photographed before. Ever.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Apart from their wedding day. Mm. And I think Europe does have a different market from the States. And we don't have this. The teenage photos. We don't have seniors. It doesn't exist, that kind of photography. So when a woman picks up that phone call and says to me, I've seen your 40 over 40 campaign and I want to be part of it, it's actually a really big deal.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before. I've heard that it's, you know, you don't have the high school senior photos. And I will say, though, a lot of my clients will say the last time they were photographed was either their wedding or high school senior photos. So between, like, I really. And there are, you know, family photo shoots in there, too. But a lot of my clients will say that. So even though we do have those kind of genres. Well, I'm assuming you have family. Family genre does exist, of course, but it's really not a whole lot different as far as a lot of my clients saying that, you know, they hadn't been photographed since then. But I'm finding over the last 10 years it has changed a lot in America, where I feel like maybe Europe is just now, very slowly, things are starting to pick up over there.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah. The whole idea of showing yourself off is a bit different here. So you would not put. A lot of families would not put wall art in their living room. So they will put wall art on their staircase. They will have it in the upstairs corridor, going to the bedrooms and in the bedrooms, but it wouldn't.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay.

[Lisa Daravisca]

There's a different way of showing the work.

[Nikki Klosser]

So it's not like, look at me, look at me. It's more of a passive sort of look at, you know, like, it's here, but I'm not going to put it in your face. Vanity, that sort of thing. Where I feel like in the States, it's a little more in your face.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, yeah. And so. And especially when you look then at portraiture, boudoir, 40 over campaigns, that's even more. So not showing people. What would I do with all those photographs? The amount of people. Times people say to me, what would I do with all those photographs?

[Nikki Klosser]

Right. There's so much that you have said since we just. Since we started the beginning of this interview that I really want to unpack. One being that you live in a super tiny town and you're getting people to drive one to two hours or more for a shoot. That's huge. Also, I know I had asked you this before, that you have a sales average of 1700€, which is amazing. And you're, you're also dealing with, you know, it's not super common to just photograph yourself for no reason sort of thing. Like these are three big reasons that people have said to us, you know, in having a seventeen hundred dollar average in a tiny town in Europe, people will say, is not possible. People will say, my, my town is too small. People don't take photos like, you know, here, like you do in America. All of these things we've heard a lot of.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And I'm not saying that that is not happening, that people don't experience this pushback, but here you are, you're really doing it. Like you're breaking through all of the reasons why people say that they can't do it and you're doing it.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's really interesting.

[Lisa Daravisca]

But I think that the key is the marketing and how it's marketed. So campaigns really work for me because it's tapping into that little niche and making every woman that phones me feel special, definitely feel unique and creating something around. And my biggest marketing is my clients. It's them bringing their friends in. It really is. But the reason they do that is because they have that fabulous service. I said 12 steps earlier. I know that when she calls me, the biggest thing, the biggest, the hardest thing is when she makes that phone call and she'll be on the phone saying, I nearly phoned yesterday, but I was a bit scared, so I thought I'd send an email. And we get talking and we talk about the last time they photographed. We've talked about why they want to do it. And the majority just said, well, actually, I've been following your work for a long time and I've seen all these beautiful women and I thought, that never could be me.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And then my friend, blah, blah, did it and she showed me her photographs. And in fact, I want that. I want to feel like that I think the photos are kind of the end result and they're not actually the reason.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, I think you're onto something there. Absolutely, absolutely.

[Lisa Daravisca]

It's the feeling, it's the experience and it's the whole. I did that for me. Mm.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Now, you had said you do the 40 over 40 campaign. Are there other campaigns you do or is that the one you kind of have the most success with.

[Lisa Daravisca]

It is the one that I have the most success with. I do a raw beauty campaign as well.

[Nikki Klosser]

What's that? Can you tell people what that is? Just for people who might not know.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I call it. Because that wouldn't be understood in France. I call it the authentic portraiture. So it's without professional hair and makeup. It's all shot in black and white. It's very much the shoot that sue did and that I've just seen that Carame Marie has just done as well. It's very much about the you who you are coming your own clothes.

[Nikki Klosser]

So there's not a whole come as you are. Yeah, right. Not a whole lot of props and makeup and hair and all of that. It's just come as you are.

[Lisa Daravisca]

But what's interesting about that campaign is for the moment, the majority of people that have done it have already done a 40 by 40 with me.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, so they came back. That's exciting.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And they came. I think they've come back because 40 over 40 shows they can do it and raw shows that they can do it more. They can go further.

[Nikki Klosser]

There's something about the 40 over 40 campaign that I think really intrigues people because you know me as a woman, I'm 47, I can then say, oh well, I'm over 40 so I could do this. And someone is actually wanting someone who isn't, you know, a 20 year old super hot skinny model sort of thing.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like they're actually looking for people who are whose me. That like that fits my description. And I almost feel like it gives them a reason Absolutely. To do it. Like it's not like they have to say to their friends, oh yeah, I really just wanted these beautiful photos of myself. And so instead it's like there's this photographer named Lisa and she's doing this 40 over 40 campaign and I thought, huh, that might be interesting to look into as opposed to. And I'm not saying like, I wish people would say, hell yeah, I feel great. I'm getting photos done of myself or I don't feel great and I want to feel great. So I'm going to get photos of myself. But let's be real, that's not how we speak to each other. So having that reason, she's looking for women over 40 and that's me. So I can do it.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Absolutely. And I think there's. So it gives the excuse to do it, gives the reason behind it to do it without coming across as being too. I Love myself.

[Nikki Klosser]

Exactly.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I think the fact I market it also. So there was 40 women. There is the exhibition at the end and the first. So I'm on my second campaign, actually. I've got four places left. It's very. Almost finished, the second one, and I will continue it. But my first one, the exhibition was actually done in an hour from me in a very prestigious cultural space. The town supported my project and actually paid for the prints because they thought the project was so interesting. We had the opening night on International Women's Rights Day, and they used it to talk about the other feminine projects that they're working on, which were a bit more serious. You know, the hospital that's just been set up, the space that they have for women that are in trouble, the shelters and housing accommodation they have for women that need to leave very quickly from a bad situation. And they used this project of these 40 fabulous women that are over 40 years old to show behind another political campaign, if you like, what the town was doing to help women. And I thought that was a really interesting way as well, of looking at these fabulous women.

[Nikki Klosser]

The timing could not have been better for that. How amazing is that?

[Lisa Daravisca]

And so when people came. So there was women that came to the private view and went, well, this isn't fair. We didn't know about this project, so that's why I started the second one. But I think there's something about that. It's not just me on my own doing this photo, it's I'm one of 40 women and we are, as a group doing these photos together.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, it's brilliant. And I know a lot of people do these campaigns successfully or whatever, but the way you're wording it and just how you got the town involved and how it does it becomes this collective group of women doing something together. That part of the marketing of it, I think is absolutely brilliant. I love that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And then I brought into that as well a lot of self value, a lot of self worth. I use the graphy reveal boxes and I talk about in my steps. The process doesn't end with the photos. It doesn't even end when you receive your photographs. It doesn't even end when you put that in a box or in a frame. It ends when you look at yourself on a daily basis and say, that's me. Mm.

[Nikki Klosser]

I love that. It's interesting because when we were talking before, you had said that you were a member of the portrait system, you know, the membership, not the podcast, obviously, for a long time, and you learned so much and you put into place so much, but you don't necessarily have the membership anymore because you're doing it now really super successfully. And you've learned everything that you needed. And now. And you've tweaked it to kind of make it your own, which I think is. I feel like that's the mark of a really great education platform. When it's like, okay, you know, come on, little birdies. Like, come on in. We got you. We're gonna teach you and all of this, and then you're gonna fly. And then, you know what? You don't really. I mean, you can stay, of course, and there's always more to learn. But, like, once you're out there and doing it and you've made it your own and you're successful, it's like you leave the nest. And it seems like that's what you've done. Like, you've taken everything you've learned in a tiny town where people say you can't do it, and you have a great sales average, and it's amazing. I love it.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I think the portrait system works full stop. I think the best thing is to totally implant it as it is, and then from there, see how you want to change it for you. Not by saying, oh, I can't do that because it won't work for me. For example, in the beginning, I said, I can't do reveals in my studio because people already drive an hour and a half to do the shoot, so they're not gonna drive back an hour and a half to have the reveal done. So I'd already decided it wasn't gonna work, so I did something else. But you know what? It does work. And for those 10 or 15% who don't want to come back, I can do that on Z. But the majority do. And the reason they do is because they want to come back to the studio, and they want to discover that with me because I help them through this all the way through. And that shouldn't stop at the photo shoot. It stops when it's the photos at home. They're on the wall in their bedroom, and they look at them every day.

[Nikki Klosser]

How wonderful is that? That clients will come back because they do want to be back in the studio and spend time with you. And that just shows, again, that level of and customer service that you're providing. It makes them feel special, and they want to go through that special experience of seeing the photos with you. What made you decide you were going to try it once you, you know, because you initially thought that you. That you couldn't do it. Have them come.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Well, I initially didn't. I really didn't. For my first 40, 40, I didn't do it. I actually had two clients who are actually both psychologists, and they were both living on their own or living with their children, but without a partner. And they both said to me when they received the photographs, because what I used to do is I used to send a video, and I would phone them. I'd say, I hope you've got the champagne ready and it's in the fridge because your video's on the way. And I would try and make the experience for them, saying, you know, close your windows, close your doors, turn all the lights off and just watch the video and try to make it an experience for them. And these two clients both said to me afterwards, because I always ask, is there anything that I could change? Is there anything about the process that you didn't like? And they both said that they felt so. Looked after all the way, so confident that they were able to do it, because I was there talking them through the process. And when the video arrived, they were just like, oh, what now? How am I going to be able to choose on my own? And they felt let down by me.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow.

[Lisa Daravisca]

They felt as though that I'd abandoned them at the moment that they received the photos. Wow.

[Nikki Klosser]

I love that you ask, what could I do better? Because how would you. You wouldn't have known if you hadn't asked. I mean, I highly doubt they're gonna be like, lisa, listen, I was really bummed out that I didn't get to come to see you in person for this. You know, like, that is one of the ways I feel like, that we can really improve our business. And sometimes we don't want to hear what they have to say. You know, maybe they'll say something that might hit us in the heart or like, oh, you know, that. That's a bummer. Or sometimes they might say, everything was great, but to get that feedback really is a great way to improve things. I love that you do that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah. And it has changed. So obviously they can come with their husband, their partners, their kids, whoever, to see the photographs with me. But it has really changed how the process goes. I used to have not loads of problems, but little problems, like a little miscommunication about whether they wanted that one in black and white or not. Or I would have to go back a couple of times to say, oh, are you sure about this? Or what do you think about that? And it wasn't a simple process and it wasn't a process that flowed and now they come back in and we have this whole thing. So I did the whole thing with champagne and little bits to eat and make it very, very French appetizers. And it's totally changed even my flow process. That makes it so much easier afterwards as well.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount memberships, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. Now, I know people out there are probably wondering, okay, how are you reaching the people that live so far? And also they're probably curious about your pricing because I know there are people out there listening who are in Europe or, you know, even just certain areas of the states or wherever in the world who are thinking, like, there's no way, there's no way I could charge that. Like, so. So let's start with the marketing.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah. So I do very on camera marketing. I am incredibly present. They are buying a process, a service, and me. So when I first started doing it, so you can't hear because I'm saying that in English, I have a very English accent when I speak French and I still make a lot of mistakes when I speak French. And at first I was like, well, no, I can't do this because, you know, I'm not perfect. And I just decided I was 45 and I just went, you know what? If they don't accept me like that, then they're just not going to accept me and I'm just going to do it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Good for you.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So it's incredibly authentic. It's very me. And I take photographs of my life on the farm here and my sunsets and my sunrises and my stupid cat and all of that. I show myself working, I show how I edit. I'm very open about the whole process and it's very me. I do Voices off. I do it on camera so they know what they're going to get around the marketing. It's a lot about, how do you want to be photographed? Who are you? I often tell the story about me being a wedding photographer and as a bride, the day of her wedding, it's the day that she accepts that she's beautiful and that everybody finds her beautiful. And people say, oh, gosh, you're gorgeous. And she says, thank you. And I don't think that ever happens. Another day in our lives, somebody will tell us that we're beautiful and we'll say, oh, yeah, but it's because I've been to the hairdressers or it's because I've got this blue top on. It goes with my eyes or whatever. We will find an excuse that they can't possibly find as beautiful. And so I really talk about how I wanted to make another day for a woman to have the excuse to find herself beautiful. So I talk about that. And I talk about how my life changed when I separated, got divorced, and this life that I thought I had and the whole shock and surprise and then suddenly I'm 50 and I was like, where did that go? And how I fell in love with my craft again, how I fell in love with being a woman again, and how I fell in love with what I wanted to do and find who I was and photograph that. So I show a lot of self portraits as well.

[Nikki Klosser]

I think you do a really great job of marrying together, sharing your personal experience with, making it all about them. It seems like you combine that really well.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And so it's not me, me, me. The moment that they phone, it's then all about them. I also have a lot of clients that. So I always do a video. I do a before and after video. I ask them why they're there, what they want out of the seance, why they came, why they phoned. And then I do a video at the end and I ask if there was any surprises. So I use a lot of those testimonials as well in my marketing. So it is about the experience.

[Nikki Klosser]

How are you physically reaching them, though? Like, are you doing. I know your Instagram, you're really active on Instagram, but are you using, like, hashtags or did you just find like five or six clients that were far away and then they're just sending their friends in? How are you reaching them physically?

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I do Facebook ads, Google without ads for the moment, and I'm very present on LinkedIn and Instagram. I do A lot of network marketing. I'm part of a lot of women's groups, so I don't actively market to those women's groups, but I'm very presence within those women's groups and people know what I do or they then ask what you do. So I do get work through that as well. I volunteer for. I work with women who are in prison and do workshops with kids. So we have the act of a child being able to create something with their mother who was in prison, and then to create those, recreate those ties between mother and child before the mother comes out.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's so powerful.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I do those kind of things. That's what really touches me, what I really enjoy doing. So I do that now volunteer work because I'm part of those women groups. People know what I do and it's also this part of it that's, I'm going to say therapeutic. It's not quite the right word, but it definitely pulls into that self value, self worth. And so I have a lot of clients who are doctors, who are psychiatrists, who are sociologists, and I have those people referring their clients to me. Wow.

[Nikki Klosser]

So it's making those connections with people within the community that might not be your target client, but they're talking about you to others.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And so that they, even if they're never going to come and do a photo shoot, that they see the value in it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Got it. So it sounds like there's a combination of things happening. Your social media, some ads, some Google, you know, some SEO stuff, and lots and lots of networking and making connections.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And it's the being authentic when we're doing it, it's not going to a networking thing to sign a contract is going because you want to meet those women and talk to those women and see what those women are doing. And it's just, yeah, a bit about being very, very authentic in how I market.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep. Okay. So this is all really great. It's really great. Now, will you tell us a little bit about how you're pricing these things? You know, the different shoots or if you have session fees or packages and how you make that work. And also before you tell us about that, I have a question. Do people ever say you are out of your mind when they see your pricing?

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yes.

[Nikki Klosser]

How do you handle that?

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I have got to a stage where I know that my pricing is right. So if somebody, I've actually had somebody recently say, I can't believe you're charging that much money. It's not right. You should be ashamed to charge that much money. And so I actually took the time to explain to her what I actually did and that it wasn't just a photo shoot, because I think that's the big difference. When people think it's just that they come in for a photo shoot and they do see, you know, Harry down the road, that's doing it for 350. Because that's not what we're selling. It's not the photo shoot that we're selling. It's the experience and it's the service. Mm. So I have a. I have a session fee, which is €300, and for that, that's hair and makeup, and it's one photo, and then they choose packages. There's 6, 10, 15, 20, and all the photographs. There's five packages. But I actually. When I send out the pricing, I actually only send out three because the five is too much for them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, that can be tricky. Yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So it's too much. So you do. I think you do need five later. Because then when they receive 50 photographs, they then realize that the six they thought they were going to have, they're.

[Nikki Klosser]

Not going to do that because they need more. Yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I do six, which is without a box, and that's 750.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, got it.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And that's without the graphy box. And then so my next one up is 10 with a graphy box. And they suddenly go, but I love that box. I want that box. So I very. That. That upsell is very easy. Yeah. I then have my. Then my 7. My 175 is 20 images in a graphibox.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. I want to back up just a little bit, because you had said sometimes people say, like, yeah, you should not be charging this much, I guess. How often is that? And because I feel like people are going to be afraid of that happening, and then everyone's going to say it. Clearly, not everyone is saying it. Obviously it happens. But do you.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I think it's also about. It's how you market as well. When. When the way that I market, the person watching that video or whatever knows that it's already a high price point. You can tell by how I show what I do. So I often will have my reveal box and will explain that it's handmade in Italy, that it's leather, that I print on fine art paper, which is used in museums, which is guaranteed for 200 years. I explain the process I talk about. So I've just started using one of the graphi albums, which has the handmade raw edge paper. So I Talk about the paper mill in Italy, where it comes from.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So you know that that's not photo box for seven cents.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, right, right.

[Lisa Daravisca]

So I think it's about that. And if you are getting too many people saying that, it's perhaps because your marketing isn't in line with what you're showing and the value perception isn't there.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. That's exactly right. And I feel like once you do kind of get that marketing dialed in and once you do have a few clients who paid those prices, it gets to the point where people find you and they probably know they're going to pay more than, you know, the average photographer down the street who isn't doing all of the, you know, the same sort of experience and something unique and that sort of thing. I think they've already made their decision that they're gonna book you regardless of how much you cost. Because they have seen the behind the scenes. They have talked to their friends, they have seen your photographs. They know that they're gonna feel like a queen that day. They wanna be part of a campaign. Like, there's all of these reasons because if you, when you put it out there and you really show it all, they already have made their decision.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that when they're. That phone call, when they've decided. It's rare in that phone call that they ask me the price. Yeah, it's really rare. Interesting. And what they want to know, the first question they ask is, has it ever happened that you haven't been able to take a photograph of somebody? What happens if I can't do it? What happens if all the photographs are rubbish? Their fear is more that than the price.

[Nikki Klosser]

You know, it's interesting because I have had clients say to me, I'm gonna be the one. Because I, In a lot of my marketing, I say things like, I love photographing people who hate to be photographed. I am going to finally give you beautiful photographs that you've, you know, that you can feel proud of. And I've had clients say to me, what if I am that one client? That, like, it's going to be me that you can't, that you can't do. And it's funny because. So I have a real insecurity about dancing. And I can put myself in my client's shoes because of it. Because I, I ended up deciding I'm going to take these one on one dance lessons. And because my whole life I've been insecure about It. And I walked in and I was like, jamie, I'm gonna, like, I'm worried I'm gonna be the first person that you can't teach how to dance. And she's like, girlfriend, are you serious right now? And. And it's. It was like roles were reversed, you know? And it was interesting because she pointed some things out about what I needed to do. Like, she's like, what do you. First of all, she's like, you can dance. You have a lot of rhythm. And she explained to me, like, there's certain flexibility in certain parts of my body that I need to work on, that I knew I needed to work on, that I had no idea were related to dancing. Anyways, my point is, is that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

It.

[Nikki Klosser]

Is very common for clients to feel like they're gonna be the one that isn't photogenic, that can't ever be taught to dance. Whatever it is that it is that, you know, someone's insecure about. And if we can tackle that from the get go, whether it's in our marketing or during the consultation or whatever, it's gonna. Oh, it just helps so much.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, totally. And the process. That's why I said the little baby steps that I do. So I'm very present with my clients. So from the phone call, they then get a questionnaire, and from that questionnaire, I then send them out homework. So I ask them before their shoot to send me five photographs that they love, not of them. It can be of somebody famous, it can be of whatever. And it's just to see what aesthetic they like, what type of photographs they like to start the conversation around, why was it that photograph? And sometimes the client, without realizing, will send a photograph, and they've all got something red in it, or they're all somebody not looking at the camera or whatever it is. And it means I can just start a conversation around portraiture photography. And so when we talk the next time, we're talking about what they like, and they don't feel as though what I'm really asking is how they want to be photographed, why they want to be photographed? Because it can be a photograph of an old lady. And then they come out and tell me a story, and it's really them just getting to get to know them. And so when I got to know. So then I then do a zoom with them. And we talk about clothes, we talk about colors, we talk about color theory, what color their house is, what color they wear, just to try and stylize the shoot. I ask them to show me their Outfit in which they feel the most comfortable. So I've had clients come with a pair of pajamas, and I love that it can be the dress you don't wear because you don't have the occasion to wear the dress, but it can also be your favorite jean. And the moment that you feel good in what you're wearing, you will look good because you feel good. And that's why I try and get over to them as we were talking about what they're going to do in the session, how they're going to feel in the session, how I make. I want to make them feel. And it's just reassuring, reassuring, reassuring. So when they arrive, they're like, they feel as they know they know me. They have time to get to know the space because they do hair and makeup here. When they arrive, I actually get them to put the bags down. They actually then choose a kimono that they put on so outside clothes are off and that you're already in this big cozy space. I asked them to send me a playlist, all their favorite songs, and I make a playlist. So it's also their music. I ask them to choose a smell, so there is a candle burning, which is a smell they like. It's all to do with reassuring them, to make them feel comfortable. So I've to create this safe space without judgment. And I almost take it personally if every client doesn't finish in some kind of virtually naked situation.

[Nikki Klosser]

Like you are really making them comfortable with that. I bet you I could get all my clients naked, too, honestly.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And I know that sounds really weird, but once they feel so comfortable and they trust you and they know you know what you're doing, they're like, yeah.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I'm like, you're only going to do this once in your life. Let's try it. And also, because they only buy the photographs they love, that totally changed for me. That was the biggest thing that changed for me with the system. It was the offering that they only buy the photographs they love, which gave me an incredible liberty in my work, in my creation. I'm like, well, let's try this. If I don't like it, I won't even show you. If you don't like it, there's only us two that have ever seen it, and nobody else ever has to see the light of day. This is just between me and you. So. Well, let's do the shower scene. If you hate those photographs, you just don't show them.

[Nikki Klosser]

So they are coming in, doing, whether it's a 40 over 40 campaign or what other? I'm trying to think of what other. I'm wondering if you are like maternity, for example, or whatever, and you are kind of converting them into other shoots during the shoot sort of thing.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, yeah. So they. I do 40 over 40. I do do maternity. I do do a bit of newborn, but only because I've done the maternity. It's not the thing that I love doing, but I love doing maternity shoots. I do headshots, but only for clients. I don't market it at all. And I do boudoir. My biggest campaigns are boudoir and 40 over 40.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay. And how many clients are you shooting, would you say, per month, Lisa?

[Lisa Daravisca]

Six.

[Nikki Klosser]

Six. That's great. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. So six clients, 1700 Euro average per month. And you're gorgeous. Farm, you know, barnhouse, slash studio.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Ugh.

[Nikki Klosser]

So great. Do you ever. One thing I meant to ask you before. Do you shoot mostly in studio? Do you ever do some out on your property? Cause I know you'd mentioned the sunset and sunrise.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I do a bit. I do family shoots outside and I will do. Yeah, some maternity. I don't do portraiture. Really? No. If somebody's feeling particularly uncomfortable, I will say, let's stop there and go for a walk. And I will go for a walk in my forest.

[Nikki Klosser]

I like that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And part of the raw beauty shoot, the actual consultation, is on a walk in the forest.

[Nikki Klosser]

Nothing like nature to get people to feel comfortable and open up.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And it's a totally different way of meeting somebody as well. Mm.

[Nikki Klosser]

For sure.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I think that I find marketing this easy. And the reason I find it easy is because I'm completely convinced this is what I should be doing. It's like I'm on the right path and it just all falls in. When I was a painter, I found the marketing myself the hardest thing in the world. It was awful. I was so uncomfortable. I felt completely naked. I felt completely un at ease. It was absolutely terrible. And I put myself in awful situations. I made myself ill because of it. And when I started doing this photography, it just seemed obvious.

[Nikki Klosser]

Do you think part of it, though is because you did the self value work?

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I did the self value. And that was six week course. Was it? Six week course. In the beginning, I cried for the whole six weeks. And I've since listened to it all again because obviously when you start the first bit, it just like throws you off. And as I started working through and really delving into where I wanted to be, where I wanted to go, not Blaming my parents anymore, not blaming that anymore, not blaming the ex husband anymore, all of those things. And just going, you know, you're here. It's you. You're the only one that can change this.

[Nikki Klosser]

And that is very empowering.

[Lisa Daravisca]

It's fabulous. Isn't it?

[Nikki Klosser]

Scary, but also very empowering that I'm in control and that I can do this. I'm the one who can make this happen. I loved when I had that realization.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, this has been. Yeah, this has been really great. I'm glad we had someone in. It'd been little while since we had someone, you know, just talking about, I'm doing it, even though there are all these quote unquote blocks in my way that people say, you know, reasons why people say that they can't do it. And, you know, we get some pushback sometimes when people are like, that's enough of people saying you can do it anywhere because you can't. And da, da, da. Like, we get. We will. We will get pushback. Someone is going to say something. And that's okay. You know, that's okay. It doesn't mean. And when we talk about these things, that doesn't mean that everything has to look exactly the same everywhere. You can tweak things and make things, like you said, making it work for you and your business, but you don't have to be a starving artist. You don't have to charge pennies.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Absolutely. And it's also, I think it's. I've obviously heard it and I've said it myself that that can't happen in Europe. That doesn't work in Europe. In France, people don't see portraiture like that. And I have said it myself. I'm sure I said that in 2016, 2017, 2018. They were my exact words that I would be saying.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Lisa Daravisca]

But I also think it's because we're getting, in our own way, we're scared of. It's working as well. Because if it's working for somebody else and it's not working for you, that's then also questioning you. And maybe you're not ready to question those things yet.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, and that's a great point. And you are ready because you're even asking your clients what you're doing wrong. And that's something that I think is super important that we are questioning. What am I doing? Am I coming off in a way to people that it's repelling them? Is my work not good enough? Am I not marketing? Am I hiding behind my computer? Am I. These are all the questions that we have to ask ourselves.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And I'm not saying it's easy either.

[Nikki Klosser]

No, no.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I spend a lot of time marketing. I mean, I probably spend as much time marketing as I do shooting.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's a great point.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I'm present daily. I will do six to eight stories a day. I do three reels a week. I'm very, very present. And that takes time, it takes energy. And you have to think about what you're doing and how you're doing it. And then it's really annoying when you put something really stupid on. And in fact, it gets like 3,000 more views than anything else you do in the week that you spent so long trying to work out. But that's it. That's how it works. No, it is not easy. It's just possible.

[Nikki Klosser]

I like that. It's not easy. It's just possible. Well, on that note, just for time's sake, we have to. We have to keep going. But I do have four questions that I always ask at the end of each episode. So I'm wondering if you will answer those for me.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Of course I will.

[Nikki Klosser]

Awesome. All right, the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[Lisa Daravisca]

Music.

[Nikki Klosser]

Music. A lot of people say that.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah, absolutely. And I am also a person of non dancing who could only ever dance after a glass of wine.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, not for long. Cause I have Jamie who's gonna help me.

[Lisa Daravisca]

No. And I met somebody called Sarah Jane in a women's retreat last year who taught me to dance in front of people as if nobody was around. And it's totally changed my. I dance every single morning. It's part of my morning routine now. Whereas before I would, you know, I would have never, ever danced. It was just completely impossible. And so, yeah, music has to be music. My music, their music, it doesn't matter. Music, definitely.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, number two, how would you. How do you spend your time when.

[Lisa Daravisca]

You'Re not working, reading, walking, listening to nature, or in museums and art galleries in Paris?

[Nikki Klosser]

Peaceful and educational, I guess.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Combination.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Awesome. All right, and number three is, what is a photography specific product that you would recommend to people out there?

[Lisa Daravisca]

I'm not at all technical. I hate the technical bit. Some people ask me what camera I use and I have to look at it to see what it is.

[Nikki Klosser]

Same. I'm like, wait, is it E6 or R6? I like, get that wrong. It's so ridiculous. Sorry, Canon. I love your camera. I just can't I'm just not.

[Lisa Daravisca]

No, no, totally. I actually, I was interviewed for another podcast this morning in French from three women, and they had. They asked absolutely no questions about photography. They only asked, really, about the women. But the one thing that completely changed my way of working in the studio was the day that I got my giraffe with my massive light.

[Nikki Klosser]

Your giraffe?

[Lisa Daravisca]

What do you call. What do you call that in English? It's the. The big arm, that. With the light over top. The big. What's it called? Boom arm.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, gosh. You're asking the wrong person. So which, like a light stand extender sort of thing?

[Lisa Daravisca]

Yes. And it can go over top of the head and you put 120 massive diffused light. That light totally changed my way of shooting, definitely.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, that's exciting. It's always so fun to find a new way to light things.

[Lisa Daravisca]

I loved it. Absolutely loved it.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out? And I know you already gave a lot of great advice, but anything else you want to add?

[Lisa Daravisca]

I love the quote of Simone Boudvoir, which is, I accept the great adventure of being me. And if you're going to be a photographer and stand out in a market where there are an awful lot of photographers, it's being yourself.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And being uniquely you, because only you can do that. And so that takes away the. But they're doing this, but they're doing that. And the comparisons and all of that, it takes that all away because nobody can do what you do. Mm.

[Nikki Klosser]

I love that. And it's all. It's very true. Even if there are a million photographers in your town, no one can be you. No one can do what you're doing.

[Lisa Daravisca]

No. Absolutely not. Yep. And we all know if you put three photographers in a room and they've got the same thing to photograph, they will photograph something completely different.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, we've seen that on stage multiple times at Portrait Masters, wppi. It's fascinating to see. Same model, same everything, and they have to come up with what they would shoot. And they all look so different in the end. It's very fun to watch.

[Lisa Daravisca]

And that's the best bit of. That's the. For me, that's the secret about marketing. It's the you. It's about you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Well, Lisa, this has been really great. Thank you. Thank you. I love chatting with you. And you have some really great golden nuggets and wisdom and tips in there, so we appreciate you.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Thank you very much. And if you ever want to come to the middle of France and drink some white wine.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh that sounds so dreamy and magical and I will probably take you up on that at some point.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Take care of yourself.

[Nikki Klosser]

I will. You too. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subriceeducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting pdfs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again that's suebriceducation.

[Lisa Daravisca]

Com.