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The Portrait System Podcast
How Jyo Bhamidipati Brought Her Beautiful Family Portrait Style To Her Commercial Work
01:04:01
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- [00:01]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
It's that those little connections or those little details or moments that happen for all of us, right? When you go to a restaurant, you sit down, the chef's talking to you, you know, like just painting that picture. And it's something that we all relate to and we've all experienced. And when you see that story, it almost makes you feel like, oh yeah, I would go buy a taco from the truck and I can relate to that.
- [01:02]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey there, it's Nicki Klosser and my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Jo Bomidapati. Jo is an amazing photographer specializing in both editorial and commercial work. She talks with us about how she switched from shooting only families and how she was able to keep her own beautiful style in her commercial shoots, even though her work doesn't look like the commercial work you may be used to seeing. Jo also shares how she structures her pricing and how having work different from the norm has helped her to find her target clients. Okay, let's get started with the amazing Jo Bomedapati. Hi, Jo. Welcome to the Portrait System. How are you?
- [02:19]
B
I'm doing good. How are you?
- [02:21]
A
I'm great. I'm great. I'm excited to chat today for this episode, tell people where you're located.
- [02:28]
B
So I'm based in Sacramento, California.
- [02:32]
A
Awesome. Probably nice and sunny. Are you just getting over the, like, really hot season?
- [02:38]
B
Well, I'm waiting to get over it.
- [02:40]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [02:41]
B
102, 103. Summer. Oh, my gosh. So I'm so over this.
- [02:46]
A
I bet. Do you shoot, do you ever shoot outside or are you mostly in studio?
- [02:51]
B
I do shoot outside too. It's a mix of both, but, yeah, it's a good mix of both, actually.
- [02:59]
A
Yeah. Okay. Well, I love your work so much, and I want to hear a little bit about kind of how you got to where you are today. But before, before we get into that, I just want to tell people if they haven't checked out your work yet, to definitely do it because, you know, you do a lot of the editorial and commercial and some stock photography, but it's not like the. It's just so refreshing. It just looks more beautiful and different than some of the quote, unquote, like, typical commercial work that I see. And I don't mean to knock down anybody's commercial work or whatever, but I think. I think everyone is so used to a certain style for commercial. It's really, it's really amazing to see what you've done with it to kind of. I don't know, it's just really refreshing and beautiful and it stands out to me.
- [03:47]
B
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, so just, you know, just walking, you know, taking a couple of steps back. I started as a family photographer many, many years. I was always into photography since being a teen. Always had my camera in my hand, et cetera, et cetera. Started out as a family photographer about 10 years ago now and, you know, did that for many, many years. I really still enjoy photographing families. I really do. But I think at Some point in 2019, ish, I was really over booking. I just didn't want anything on the weekends. I was like, I just don't want to do anything on the weekends. I don't. I don't. I mean, photographing families, families and weekdays is fine, but typically people prefer weekends. And how do I get out of this? So I started exploring more options as to what else is out there. Since I didn't really have a formal education with photography to being taught as to this advertising, there's this, there's this. So I was More sort of like figuring things out on my own and bouncing off ideas with other people that I have made friends with in the industry, etc. Etc. Or joining other organizations where I can learn as to what else is really out there and what does the advertising commercial world even mean. So it was more of a gradual transition, is what I mean. Not just like, I'm going to stop doing families altogether and then it doesn't really work because families were really my bread and butter for a very, very long time. So it took. It was a little bit of a graduation almost 2019, 2021. I was still photographing families while kind of just taking local businesses to work photographing, you know, like even say a friend has a product shop or someone else wants their, you know, clothing boutiques photograph, like starting really at the very local level and seeing, you know, what are those organizations that you can be a part of locally and, you know, just sort of expanding from there. But I didn't really want to let go of what was true to my work or what people really liked in what I do. So I really wanted. Wanted to sort of keep that feel of that natural light that I really love, you know, because it just gives that very authentic, very real feel to my work. And. And anytime I work with brand work or like, you know, even working with people that's related to brand, et cetera, you really have to be very, very comfortable photographing with strobes or, you know, using. Taking your lights everywhere. So I was like, how do I make this transition that just feels completely seamless? So I think it was a little bit of technical challenge as well as marketing challenge, and just kind of like refiguring things out and it. And even though it's photography, but trust me when I say that it took a while, that it was like, you know, I used to think like, well, it's the same thing, but it's not really the same thing because the industry just works so differently in the whole commercial editorial work. And I use those words, commercial editorial, kind of loosely together. But. And that's where I try to see how I can still sort of blend that, like, shoot commercial work in an editorial way that feels more storytelling. And hence I keep playing with my. The profile name on my Instagram, you know, like, where you put your tagline. I was like, visual storyteller. No, brand Storyteller. Like, how do I bring that word of stories in what I do? Because essentially that's what it is. Like, I like telling stories, but I want to focus on brands. And you Know, like, brands are essentially people, and how can I make that connection in essentially telling that everyday life, but sort of raising the bar and making it look more polished? I know that's a long winded answer, but hopefully that makes sense.
- [07:58]
A
No, it does. And there's some things I want to kind of break down in there because one thing you said is, you know, when you're changing genres, like, it can be really scary to all of a sudden be like, well, I don't do this anymore. Now I do this. Like you said, I feel like it's helpful to be more of a gradual process. I was the same. I did weddings for a long time, and I hated that. I lost my weekends and my evenings and just the sheer number of photographs to deal with and the clients and the stress and all the things. And I switched into personal branding because. Sounds like very similar reasons to what you did, and I absolutely love it. But I really kind of had to almost like wean myself off of the weddings and some family stuff I was doing instead of just all of a sudden stopping and switching because it gets a little scary. And like you said, even though it is all photography, you kind of. You have to market to different people. Although, you know, some of your clients, like some of my wedding clients, turned into portrait clients and that sort of thing. But in general, your marketing is different and, and just, you know, sometimes pricing can be different. So it is kind of like reinventing yourself. But I mean, the good news is when you're adding a genre or just switching genres altogether, you've already. You already know what to do. You know, you know how to do a website, you know how to market yourself, you know how to take great photographs. So I almost feel like it's easier, but you just have to be more strategic, I guess.
- [09:29]
B
Exactly. Yeah. I think that's. That's exactly what I had to do. So there were a lot of these. I think almost four or five years ago, I was trying to redo my whole website. Right. So I was. I was still learning the whole process, and I was told that, hey, you know, your work is very on the moody side of things, and sometimes commercial photography is not as moody. So then I was like, what does that exactly mean? Right? I mean, you know, why cannot it be? I mean, I was trying to understand the reason behind it or also, like, what can. I mean, I mean, it can be brand specific too, but I'm just sort of generalizing over here that a lot of the times you kind of just, you know, it's. It's it feels very like. I think you were, you were, you were also mentioning how commercial work can be very typical. Which is, which is true. So it was sort of like figuring out how do I fit in in that place. Although I didn't really relate to that very typical style of commercial work that you see. I was like, you know, someone holding their phone or someone just, you know, like it's. But I was like, I don't want to be, you know, the hundredth person doing the same thing. And how can I differentiate myself? And you know, am I sort of putting myself in a tunnel where like, you know, nobody will relate to it but like, how do I rediscover myself? Right? So it was like, it was definitely a lot of like a learning process. And then I think something that really helped was take literally, like it felt like I was restarting my website from scratch. And you know, any of those pages, like, you know, if I did families or, you know, maternity or whatever I did, I had them in my hidden pages so that nobody would see it. And I was still taking some of those clients because I got, you know, I wanted that money in, I wanted that income flowing and you know, without completely just feeling like, okay, I'm just going to sit here and wait for clients to come to me. But sort of like getting the word out, right? Like any of these families. And you just mentioned how your wedding clients turn into your portrait clients. I was like, anytime I go see any of these people, I would say that, hey, you know, I'm going to be working with businesses, I'm going to be working with restaurants. I'm going to be doing this. If you know anyone, like, you know, if you know a friend who perhaps is thinking of. So I was trying to like, get the word out and not just like feeling that I'm going to redo my website and then just sit and wait, but like telling them, and then still taking families, still taking my maternity clients, but put every. Putting everything under the hidden pages and really like restarting my entire website and completely separating of how my work should look like. And those were multiple iterations. There are actually different websites out there, like Found Commune, APA is another organization, Diversify. So there's multiple organizations that I started exploring that is more of a membership and invite only organizations for commercial advertising, editorial photographers. So I was like, what do I do to get into those? It felt like a, it felt like a, an elite membership club where people belong. And I'm like, how do I get there? So. And you know, I kept Getting rejection emails. It's like, oh, your work is not commercial enough. Your work is too suited for retail industry. They call it retail. I was like, okay, now what do I do with, you know, with all of this? So I was like, it felt like I was doing multiple iterations, and I think it took me a good, you know, a year to, you know, 14, 16 months or so where it felt like, okay, I think this body of work is pretty good to apply to those organizations. And then after that, I think, you know, from 2022, you know, onwards, I was like, okay, I'm getting all of these invites now. People are accepting me, seeing me as a commercial photographer who is available for assignments or who can be considered for, you know, bidding on jobs and things like that. So it was definitely those iterations. And I, you know, even to date, and I'm not saying that. And commercial, sorry, I'm going back one more step. And also, like, this whole advertising world, you know, it feels very, very closed. And I have so much to say about that, too, that it feels very closed in the sense it, you know, it felt to me that it's all about who, you know, in the sense that even though, you know people and there's, you know, there's like, talks about things because the stakes are really high. The money is really high. The stakes are really high. And it's, you know, when I say it's all about whom, you know, it's kind of just showing the work that you want to get hired for, essentially, and being in the right place at the right time and, you know, not taking anything personally if you get, you know, just, you know, if you don't get hired for a job, because it could be multiple reasons, it's, you know, it may not just be purely on your technical or what you have. And, like, this year itself, I've had, like, almost four inquiries which were really big. To me, they were bigger jobs, and I didn't make it to those jobs. And I'm like, okay, at least I was being considered. I was asked to bid on those projects. And that itself is like, okay, all right. You know, if not this year, I might land on some of those jobs next year. So it was like, you know, it's all about being at the right place at the right time. Sometimes your pricing estimate has to be, you know, what the brand's looking for, the colors, or. I've even been told that if it's a shoe brand, for example, and if my portfolio doesn't have any shoes in it, it's not that you cannot photograph someone wearing shoes, but if it doesn't show it today, you may not get hired for that job. And it feels so simple. But does that mean that you're going to go and photograph your test shoots? I'm going to go photograph someone wearing shoes, someone wearing socks. It doesn't necessarily mean that, but it's like feeling like you know what you are drawn to. Right. Like, kind of still staying true to yourself, but showing the work that you want to get hired for and not taking it personally, even though you know that, hey, I could have done the job, but it could have been, you know, five other reasons that I did not get hired for something like that, if that makes sense. Yeah, definitely a gradual transition was what I tried to say. Yeah.
- [15:54]
A
And something that. I mean, when I first looked at your website, right away, it jumped out at me that, like I said at the beginning that your commercial work was different. And I think that, like you said, there's a million commercial editorial photographers out there, and I feel like it's a way for you to set yourself apart. But you did mention that there might have at the beginning. There was this kind of challenge of people saying, oh, but this isn't what we're used to, or it's too moody, or it's too this or too that. How did you kind of overcome that? Like, did people eventually just embrace it or was it just hearing a lot of no's before you got your first yes? Like, I feel like it's. It's almost like you're pioneering this new, you know, commercial look or something when you're starting with a different style than what people are used to.
- [16:46]
B
I think that's such a great question because I feel like you don't really have to change who you are to. I wasn't really so trying to fit in a box and molding my work to fit in that box. It was a little bit of sort of meeting someone in midway, if that makes sense. As to, you know, there is a place definitely for, you know, I love side light, for example. Like, you know, give me those black backdrops with, like, beautiful side light. I'll take it any day. But there is a place for that kind of work, and I call it fine art. And I had to really separate that kind of work. So I tried to kind of, like, meet people midway. As to, you know, maybe I'll be more bold and moody through the use of color in my work. Maybe I'll be more bold and moody in terms of how I show, like, say, Raw emotion or perhaps, you know, if I want to photograph something, you know, really dark and moody or something, you know, something very different. I still have a second website that is more, you know, fine art. And I'm still kind of like figuring out where, you know, where my future lies with that. But, you know, right now my goal is to sort of be a fine art artist where I can have galleries and shows and things like that. And that's a common, completely different website, because initially that was something that I was having hard time with as well, where I was trying to combine everything. And after multiple portfolio reviews with, like, you know, leading hiring managers is that, you know, creative directors, et cetera, et cetera, I was like, well, you know, even if you show 10 images only on your. On your main page or your website, those have to be your strongest, best. You know, I see those 10 images, and that's it. I want to hire you for those 10. And you may not get hired for every job, like I said, but you will get hired for something that you showcase, right? And there's. There is a huge gap in the commercial industry as to definitely, for sure, in the sense of, like, from the brand perspective, where people, you know, the creative directors, art directors, etc. There is a disconnect, for sure. And that's an ongoing conversation, which I know the advertising commercial world is having, where it's more like, you know, like sometimes I think being an art director, you have to be able to stretch your imagination as to, like, if you don't literally see something in an image, it doesn't mean that the person cannot shoot it, right? So that's sometimes a disconnect where a lot of photographers lose jobs because they don't show that. But as long as you're able to show your technical concept competency, your storytelling, or that human connection, you know, at the end of the day, what I wanted to, you know, make sure that I don't lose myself in, you know, finding that prick is commercial warrants is very perfect. And I. And I taught a course on imperfection, right? So I was more like, you know, how do you keep that bridge? But rather, you know, keep it in a loose way. So I was more like, I'm gonna do that through showcasing human emotions, like, you know, that emotion aspect. Because at the end of the day, if you're working. I work with a lot of nonprofit organizations as well. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's really about showcasing that connection because it's the people whom you're trying to Sell whatever you're trying to sell. Right. Like, they have to feel the connection. So, you know, and in going back to the aesthetics, I think for me, like I said, if something felt very, you know, dark and moody or something very different, you know, double exposure, so whatever, I would move that to either a different page or, you know, if that was like, say, personal projects or, you know, something that I've been experimenting, you know, experimenting with or whatever. Like, you know, so I would move that to a separate page. So kind of like be very mindful of when you're designing your portfolio because it's very, very important. Important as to anyone who looks at your work. You know, it's like this is the kind of work that I want to get hired for, but this is the kind of work that I have done in the past for a certain client. So I think distinct, you know, putting rather than combining everything and mishmashing everything, finding a footing for all of that, but splitting that and finding its own home, I think was where I sort of, you know, met midway with where I was trying to go, if that makes sense.
- [21:32]
A
Yeah, it seems like if you switch genres, you still have to love what you do. You know, we're such creatives, and if you're creating something that doesn't feel genuine to you or it's not your style, I don't know, I just feel like you can end up in a not so great path of burnout, you know, like, we have to be able to photograph in the way that we love, in the style that we love. So, yeah, it just, it's. I feel like when you're. You're one of the people who are. You're breaking the mold, you know, that's where. Yeah, that's just where it can get. Get tricky. But from what I'm hearing you say is you just have to keep pushing forward and you just have to find your people. And I love how you also said that you're doing this kind of commercial editorial work focusing on human emotion and connecting with people and that, I mean, that is like, it's so key. I mean, that's how I book clients, is I connect with them, you know, like, it's a combination of work and connection on like a, you know, a human to human level. But you can also connect with people through your photographs. And if you make someone feel something when they look at your photos, that is everything. It really is, especially in advertising and that sort of thing. Like, if a company has a series of images that they're using in their marketing campaign, and no one feels anything when they look at it. It's like, meh.
- [23:02]
B
Exactly.
- [23:03]
A
So I love that you're moving it in that direction. It's really great.
- [23:07]
B
Exactly. Absolutely. I think that's where you hit the nail in the hood. Like, it was, you know, when you watch any, like, even TV commercials, right. That stick with you are the ones that you feel something that just, you know, make the hair, you know, that just gives you goosebumps, right?
- [23:23]
A
Yes.
- [23:24]
B
I felt that, like, you know, it could be, you know, a ballet dancer, and it could be something with like, a headphone commercial. Right. Like, whatever that is once it touches you, you know that. Okay. You know, I relate to that. And rather than, you know, just a very static advertising where, you know, you're holding a product and you're trying to, you know, please buy this, because that. So I think that's where. And I know that a lot of brands are changing in that approach as to their recognizing that storytelling is the more important aspect of advertising. Because I, you know, there's a lot of people over here who have, you know, like, product photos where you, you know, it's like, mostly like, you know what I'm talking about, like, flat lays with, like, a chocolate bar laid out or like, you know, so I somehow never really connected to that. And hence, you will see that on my website, I don't really showcase anything as much as emphasis of keeping the hero shot as my, like, product and packaging because, like, I'm not trying to do everything in here. Right. Like, you know, there's. There's multiple places where you can find yourselves to fit in. And. And for me, I felt like it was these stories that I related to where, you know, whether it could be about women or motherhood or kids or travel, like, those are the things that I'm really passionate about. And food and, you know, it's like we cook every day and, you know, pandemic made us cook so much, and we're constantly in the kitchen. My husband's, like, always coming up with new recipes, and I was like, you know what that is? That's the stories that I want to tell. And I know that when we look at, like, say, commercials or even, like a Nike commercial or whatever, you look, you know, that's the subtle advertising that I feel like we connect to as well. And that's what we want to see. We want to see stories about, or at least I relate to stories about families or kids or kids tying their shoelaces or, you know, if I'm able to Depict that human emotion while also getting hired by a brand to do that. It's a win, win situation, right? Like, I get to, you know, and going back to my selfish needs where, like, I can make more money, I don't have to work on weekends and I can get to tell the story. I mean, I'm trying to describe my ideal scenario here, right? Then I can get to work on weekdays, set my own time, have a team and, you know, da, da, da, get to, you know, but then there's also, you know, you know, I'm not trying to say it's all glorious. There's definitely a lot of, you know, back and forth or like, you know, cons or like, things that you have to kind of like, keep in mind that could be challenging. But I know that it's getting there, right? The dialogue's getting there. And if more people embrace something like what I'm trying to do here in terms of like, don't give up what you like to do, whether it's telling stories or whatever, that kind of. Or maybe someone likes very, very stylized work. That's okay, right? I'm not into extremely stylized work and that's okay. But, you know, whatever that is, there is definitely a place for something like that. If you're able to convince at the end of the day the creative directors that, you know, this is where, you know, the story lies, right? For, for me, you know, I was like, this is where the connection is between the creative directors, the brand, the people, you know, the consumer who ultimately buys the product rather than the static advertising of just doing the flat lay with like hands or something and being done, right? Like, I want to see the story, you know, it's like if it's a chocolate bar, I want to see the kid eating a chocolate bar with like messy mouth, right?
- [27:15]
A
Well, yeah, yeah. And you bring up food. And it's really interesting because just scrolling through your Instagram, there's a couple things that I mean a lot. Most of your images jump out at me and I love them so much. But there's this one photo that you posted in. It was October of 2023. And there's like a pink canvas and wine and food. And it is like I can feel what it would be like to be drinking this wine and eating this food. Like, I just love it. And sometimes food photography can be like food photography, but it's just the way that you've done it and you show a little behind the scenes video of how you did it, which is really cool. But I just I absolutely love it. Like, this photograph of wine and food makes me feel something. And then the other one that jumped out, there's a chef. It looks like you are in. You're in India. You must have been traveling. And the title is Street Food in Chennai. Did I say that right? Chennai, India.
- [28:15]
B
Chennai, yeah.
- [28:16]
A
Okay. And it's this guy, you know, he's a chef, and there's smoke coming off of the grill, and I'm like. I can almost, like, smell this food. And if I was a chef, I would love to have a photo like this of me.
- [28:28]
B
Right?
- [28:28]
A
So it's. Yeah. And I was going to say, too, with some of your other product work that you've done, I know there's a lot of. A lot of food in here, but it's just really great. It's really refreshing and different. I don't know, it just feels more real life, I guess, as opposed to just doing a. What do you call it, where you put a white backdrop or a white, you know, foam core on the floor, and then you shoot from above and you just take the photo of the food or the product or whatever and call it a day where this just. And there's a time and place for that, too. I'm not saying that there's not, but just your angles and everything that you do. Yeah, it's really. It's really great. And I can see how maybe this isn't for every company or every brand, but I can see it being for a lot of brands.
- [29:14]
B
Exactly. Yeah.
- [29:15]
A
Yeah.
- [29:15]
B
I think. I think that's exactly the point. Right. Like, for me, I was. You know, when I knew that I got into food photography, I was like, how can I tell a story with this? Right? Like, how can I. Because, you know, at the end of the day, food is an emotion food is a part of. It's not just what we consume. Call it a day and move on. Like, people connect with food, people bond over food. We travel to places because we like a certain restaurant. And, you know, it's ingrained in how we live, Right? So it's. It's very much a part of our culture. And I was more like, how do we bring the. And. And it's more than just showing a hand of someone reaching out for food, Right. It's like, how can you make that? You know? And then I. How can you make that connected to people? Right? So when I used to teach this course, the Imperfectionist, I used to talk about, you know, your images making. Making, you know, having the connection with people through your Senses. So I used to talk about five senses as to how we take in something. And you know, food is a perfect example of that. Like you smell it, you can taste it, you can touch it, right? So it's like it hits all of those senses and you know, once you relate to that, you just like you can, you can get lost in the story, right, Rather than just looking, you know, like you said, like, you know, there is a time and place for something like you know, a top down shot of a food. Great. You know, that could be a part of their, you know, social campaigns or whatever, but you know, like a family being fed or chef making something or someone taking the food. It's, it's that something that happens to every person. It's that those little connections or those little details or moments that happen for all of us, right? When you go to a restaurant, you sit down, the chef's talking to you, or you go to a taco truck and you're getting your tacos or you know, like just painting that picture. And it's something that we all related to, you know, relate to and we've all experienced. And when you see that story, it almost makes you feel like, oh yeah, I'll go buy, you know, a taco from the truck. And I can relate to that, right. So I think bringing in that story aspect of it as to how you as a consumer can connect to that is where I am really, really drawn to. So at the end of the day, hence I was more so like it's not really, you know, a lot of people, you know, in the past like, oh, your photographs are so moody, la da da. I'm like, it's not really about how moody they are. For me, the way I see it is how I use the light, color and the emotion to tell the story. So sometimes the photos could be it feels moody because of a certain light or it could also feel, you know, like I had a grant with Adobe where I was photographing about body diversity back in the day about two years ago and I have this photo with like all dapple light and two women who are plus size. And I mean that to me is a moody photo too. It's like it's got this beautiful dapple light at the back and so it's really, you know, moody is a very lose word, very open ended work word I feel in the photography industry and somehow we just associate that in my opinion with moody tending to be like a darker image. And it doesn't necessarily have to be. It's about what mood are you really trying to portray with your story in that image, if that makes sense. So I just want. I really urge photographers to think about the word moody when they use that to describe their words or work.
- [32:57]
A
Mm, for sure. Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. Can we. Let's talk a little bit about the business side of this.
- [33:48]
B
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
You know, like, because you used to do family photos and maternity and those sort of portrait sessions. Like, is it the same kind of pricing structure or are you doing things completely different?
- [34:01]
B
So currently I don't really advertise or market or anything for families at all. Very, very rarely. You know, if I just like, just this year, you know, I had a really lovely family reach out to me who was apparently following me for a very long time. Da, da, da. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, all right. You know, they wanted something in the Bay Area and a beautiful beach. I was like, I kind of miss that. That's okay. I'll do it. So it was more like, you know, I just want to do something different because it's been a while, so I don't really market for it or anything. And in terms of the pricing structure, because I don't really market for families or maternity as such, I really haven't changed it. For me, it had always been a one price that I did. It may not be the best for everyone, but I had one price that I had for all my families and maternity clients that I gave, I think 20 or 30 digitals or something, and then they could buy an extra. So I kept my pricing the same because anyone who reached out to me have been grandfathered into whatever I was working with them in the past. So it's like really hardly three or four families that have been friends with me that have Stayed with me for, you know, all of these nine plus years. And I just go photograph them because they're a friend now and I, and I leave it to that. But other than that, the editorial, you know, it's editorial work is definitely much, you know, local editorials or even national like I photographed for NBC News. I've done a little bit of documentary photojournalistic work as well. And again, I don't show a whole lot of that on my website because I'm not necessarily trying to go after that work, but it does come to me once in a while. And editorial work doesn't really pay a whole ton. But sometimes I like to do it because I like to maintain those relationships with the photo editors who hire you for the documentary photojournalistic style of work because it's really easy to do that.
- [36:08]
A
Real quick, Jo, will you. For people who might, might not understand, like the difference between commercial and editorial.
- [36:13]
B
Yeah.
- [36:14]
A
What does that look like?
- [36:15]
B
Yeah. So editorial work is more. When you are, I guess you're trying to work for print, local, national, digital magazines. It's essentially in a very much to do with something, you know, you flip pages or you look online through a website or, you know, just something that's got to do with multiple stories being told on web or through print, essentially, you know, in breaking it down. That's what editorial work is. You can make your commercial work look like editorial work, but in a basic nutshell, that's what editorial work is. It's also comprises of your, you know, like your New York Times or NBC News or Washington Post or any of that mag, because ultimately those are magazines or those are media, news media, et cetera, et cetera. And that's editorial work as well. Now, it doesn't mean that sometimes there could be grants, et cetera, that you could apply and work on a commercial project where some of those companies can also fund your project. But that's a totally different thing. That's, you know, that happens rarely. You know, it's. It's a different, It's a different thing. But generalizing in, you know, majority of the time, editorial work is essentially print or your digital media. And for commercial work, it's your brand advertising. And it could range from anything from small businesses, medium to larger businesses. Anyone essentially, who trying to sell a product or a brand. And a brand could. Essence can also be a person. Right. So, you know, it could also be authors or actors or, you know, that's why sometimes, you know, like headshot photographers are like. Well, I'm not necessarily A commercial photographer, but I don't do families and maternities either. So that's a different, you know, that's a different. What's the right word box or you know, a type of thing that you could do, but it sort of can loosely fall under the commercial umbrella if that makes sen. Because, you know, a person can be a brand too, right?
- [38:27]
A
Yep.
- [38:27]
B
So, yeah, hope that helps.
- [38:29]
A
All right, so like, as far as pricing, like, is it different per company? Like, are you just putting in bids? Like how you would just a typical commercial shoot?
- [38:40]
B
Yes.
- [38:41]
A
And then you're kind of hoping you get it.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah. So I worked with a couple of places where usually, you know, most of the times what I have done in the past couple of years have been smaller to when I say small business in a, like how does it micro to small businesses? I worked with local businesses and I worked with a couple of nonprofit businesses or organizations rather as well. And you know, restaurant is also a small business. And you know, in terms of pure pricing, what I have done in terms of establishing that is some jobs could ask you to bid for a project and you know, you put a pricing estimate. Think about what is your day rate typically you establish your day rate as to, you know, what will, you know, that's six to eight hours, you know, typically eight. I mean, for bigger jobs, a day could be even 10 hours. But I go by six to eight hours a day. And you know, what would it take for you to get paid in terms when you do your cost of business calculator, what should your day rate be when you want to do a job? Right. So I think I remember back in the day, this was a bunch of years ago when I attended Lindsey Adler's, I think was one of her seminars on commercial photography where she was like, well, you know what? Don't go for any job that is really below 500. Like, really. I know it sounds super low, but don't go. And when you're starting out, don't go for anything below $500, right? Like, even if it's your friend, like, you know, hey, I want to just do something to sell candles, right? Or I want to sell a bunch of earrings. Like, you know, if you're really, really trying to completely shift and start from there, just like, I don't want to touch my camera. This is like my minimum for me to get out of the door, right? So very, very. And that could be something where you say you give three photos or two photos or like whatever that is, right? You can reduce the amount of Photos you will give, but don't go down a certain amount that you have made up on your mind, right? And you kind of just keep increasing from that, right? You start from there, then you go to 1200, 1500, 2000 a day. So whatever your day rate is, you kind of just keep going. You know, when you know that people are ready to pay you for something like that, you kind of keep going, you know, increasing your prices. And in terms of establishing your day rate, just something to keep in mind is I was learning all of this as I was going in the past, you know, what changing. Because it's. It's a whole different way of understanding of doing things like charging for your gear, not just charging for your, you know, charging for your time. You're, you know, you're essentially billing the client as to, you know, your equipment cost, your insurance costs, or your, you know, your software. Like, all of that should be taken into account when you come up with your day rate as well, right?
- [41:39]
A
So definitely, this is something we talk a lot about on this podcast, is coming up with your cost of goods. Because on the portrait system in the membership, we have a pricing calculator. And it's so important. It's so important, all of the things that you just said to include those. Because if you don't. Exactly, you're basically putting your head in the sand for what you're spending and what you're earning, and you're not taking home as much as you think you are. And at the end of the day, you're like, well, shit, I am not making enough money. You know, it's a tricky, tricky thing.
- [42:10]
B
It is absolutely. No, it's all of that. I remember once there was a job a couple of years ago, I was working on Holiday Inn, and that actually project never took off, so I don't have any of that work to share. But I was working with an agency for Holiday Inn, and at that point, at that time, I had an agent. Now I don't. But when the agent. And I was kind of still learning all of this, they're like, oh, how much do you think your meals will cost? How much do you think your transportation? I was like, really? Like, I have to. I was like, really? But it's just an Uber. It's going to be like 30 bucks. He's like, all right, 30 bucks. Meal 25. Like, you've got to take into account what it takes for you to be present on your job on that day to get the job done successfully. And, you know, it's all of those things are important because you're doing all of that for the client, right? You know, so, you know, so keep in mind this, you know, your transportation costs, your travel costs, your meal costs or whatever, you know, you don't have to tell your client every itty bitty purchase or like you're going and buying props or whatever that is. But you can build it all out in your day rate where it just looks like a nice fluffy number. And you know why it is, right? Like if someone wants a breakdown, you have to break down. But you know why your day rate is the way it is, right? So yeah, that's, that's something that's super important. And I feel like people don't consider, you know, and then there's like this whole cost of assistance. And you know, most of my jobs have been small enough where I've had to hire maybe one assistant and that's about it, you know, But I know that there are big commercial projects where people have a whole nine yards, you know, they have a whole team of like first assistant, da, da, da, like things like that. But yeah, just, you know, figuring out all those costs and knowing that, you know, a job, you know, if even if you bid a job for like say 3k at the end of the day, you may make like just say $500 profit. Right? Like so, so keeping in mind that 3k doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to. Your take home pay will be a $3,000 pay. Right? So understanding that was important.
- [44:22]
A
I mean, I know this is so tricky because it varies vastly depending on the job. But is there like a starting point? Like what's your, like I won't get out of bed for one of these commercial type shoots for X amount. Do you have that amount or is it just kind of depends?
- [44:38]
B
I think it really depends on which client you're speaking to essentially. And that's the, that's the tricky part because commercial work is just so varied. But I can see that in terms of editorial work. And you know, and I know sometimes people will not want to take a lot of editorial work because the money is not that great. So you would be surprised to hear that, you know, like Washington Post, for example. Right. And it's a big name, like companies like that will pay, media companies will pay anywhere between say 500 to 1000, you know, 1K or $1200 for an assignment. And it is actually really low, you know, but it's, and I know it's like sometimes the job could be super easy. It could just be, you know, go take portraits of so and so for this news article and it is, you know, it could be a one hour job and you're done, right? And sometimes I do them because I know it's an easy job and I want to keep those connections and I want, you know, those bigger names on my client list, etc, etc, keeping those connections going. But the pricing there, they, you know, it's a whole another thing. So I'll try to not complain about it. But it's, you know, that's that in terms of the brand or commercial side of things, it really, really varies. Like you know, your mom and pop shop may not be able to pay more than 500 or 800, you know, say 1K, right? Like back in the day I started out with 500 and then laid it out pretty quickly. A couple of months later I was like, you know what? Like that's nothing. Like I just, you know, I'm, I'm not really doing anything, you know, like one job, two jobs, 500 and I'm done. And then I, you know, a couple of months later I increased my day rate to I think 1500. At that point, six months later and I was still getting jobs. Right. So I know that your micro mom and pop shops will still not be able to pay anything more than the 500 to 1k range. But if you're especially trying to step your, you're trying to step into something like that, it is okay to take something like that, say for one or two jobs and think about the number of images that you give them and then add on as licensing as need. Because sometimes people forget that you can make money through licensing as well. And you know, either I do what I do sometimes, you know, back in the day, or at least what I had been doing was hey, you know, I can reduce the cost for this so and so. But would you be open to licensing your images that we've done where I can sell it to a third party? So sometimes they're open to a lower cost between us. But if I'm able to make more money through licensing those images through whatever other platforms are out there, then all of a sudden I have made more money with all of these redundant images that are still sitting, but those are not going to the client. Does that make sense? So then I can still license them, right? Or maybe they want to come back and license in a year, right? You know, they can come back and then, then you can increase your pricing accordingly when it comes for licensing. Because you know, and this is Something that I actually took a workshop that I had learned as well there it was, I think, I forget a rev workshop, I think what it's called. And it was a commercial workshop run by two fabulous, fantastic ladies. Cara Mercer, she was a wedding photographer as well, and she moved to commercial many, many years ago. And something that I learned was like, we have a lot of these images that we shoot that we could take it back for licensing or even sell it back to the client for licensing later on and make more money with it. And sometimes people tend to forget that. So. Yeah. So, you know, it's really hard to have a number essentially because brand commercial work is just so varies. And anything you feel that, you know, you're not willing to, you know, mold in any way. I would really try to reduce the number of images that you give to a client. If they say, hey, I want 30 images, but I'm only willing to say, pay $5,000, right? And you know, it's a company now, you could do your own research and you know that the company has $10 million plus turnover or revenue, right? Like, you know that they can effort to pay more. But you know, their, their visual or their brand marketing budget could be only so and so because they don't see the importance in that. Right? So I think it's a lot of education that still is required from the brand side as well, but not, you know, I'm really never reducing my cost, but I will reduce the number of images that I'll give. So if it's like a say, you know, I'm just throwing random number here, but if it's like, say if it's a 5k job and they want 30 images, I would be like, hey, I don't think I can do 30 images. But how about we do, can we do 15, right? We can, we can, you know, say you want photos with the mom and dad and the kids and this and that. Why don't we reduce the number of combinations and just do this and this and this, right? So you could always talk to. Because it could be the number of days you are on set. You know, maybe you can reduce that. Maybe you can not have, you know, certain things. So it's all about the cost cutting that you can see as to how you can reduce costs if the client wants it that way. But I would really not reduce the overall cost, but I would find other cost cutting measures if need be.
- [50:15]
A
When you're talking about licensing, like who might you license something, you know, these images to? Are you talking like stock Photography, because I know you do a little bit of stock photography, like who are you licensing it to?
- [50:25]
B
So there's a lot of licensing companies out there. Through my research, like so back a couple of years ago I got a grant through Adobe where they paid me, you know, a bulk of money to get a project done. It was the body diversity campaign, all of that. Right. But I don't, Adobe, Shutterstock, like these companies, they don't really pay you much for your stock licensing. So if you're thinking of, I mean, might as well go ahead and just put it there, have that passive thing going, that's totally fine. But I just don't have the time and energy to upload model releases and it's just so much work. So if there's anything where there are grants, like I know Adobe as a grant and I had applied for the grant and then so what, what happened for me was like they had a grant, I applied for a grant, I got the grant and then six months later they came back to me and then they said, hey, we have a need for so and so will you shoot this and we'll pay you this much? Right. So because I had established a relationship and a contact with them, so they considered me for the time when they had a need for advertising for a certain thing. Right. Same with, you know, Shutterstock or there's actually another company that I don't have a full on portfolio with them. They have been reaching out to me. It's called Stills or with Stills, I forget. So they seem very, very artistic. And you know, I think especially those who photograph landscape or music work, et cetera in the music industry. You know, I see a lot of work over there. There's where they license your work, you basically upload and then your model releases become very, very important in those cases. And then there's also companies like Loop, where I am a member of, where they sometimes reach out and then they'll say that we have a, you know, we have a healthcare company who, you know, if you have a library of images that you've already shot or you have something, it'll be like, you know, we are looking for kids playing on the playground, you know, for this healthcare company. Does anybody have photos that we could do this? We will, you know, pay you anywhere up to 1500-1k per image. And sometimes they come out and then you sell a bunch of images and then that's great, right? Because it's like those preexisting library of images that you've already pre shot and that's why we always say that anytime. And these are not your paying jobs, which are very full on commercial, if that makes sense. If you have your micro businesses or small businesses that you've worked with and if they're paying you money, you can license work back to them at some point. But they may not be willing for you to license those images to a third party. Go ahead and ask them. But sometimes they, you know, bigger companies are not willing to because they have paid you to get that work done and they don't want you to. It's almost, I don't know, does that make sense that they don't want you to go ahead? Because they could be NDAs sometimes, right? Like those bigger companies. So they, you know, you may not do that, but sometimes with the smaller companies, you may be completely okay to go ahead and license them. Like if I take portraits of the chef or, you know, some restaurants, you know, I'm like, oh, hey, are you willing to sign this model release? So I could go ahead and license them? Many times they're okay with it. They don't care. Right. So yeah, there are a lot of ways that you could get around with it. And then, you know, there is sometimes travel websites, there's like, you know, sometimes those photo editors that I have worked with in the past will come back and then we'll say that, hey, I'm also looking for a library of images where there could be people walking to catch a train. Like, I don't know, I'm just trying to come up with a simple example. And if you have shot something like that before, you know, that's the time that you pull from your library of images. So, you know, in a nutshell, keeping those relationships going keep, you know, establishing those contacts or, you know, networking as much as possible really, really helps because you don't know where that work, you know, your next project, it could just come from your playdate with your kid with a mom youm know, I don't know. Right.
- [54:54]
A
Well, it's funny you say that because my. We had an awesome babysitter over the summer who watched our kids once a week for us and she was heading off to college or you know, before she was heading off to college and my kids loved her. Anyway, she texted me and she's like, hey, I told my mom about your work, you know, your photography and she needs updated personal branding photos. She said headshots or whatever. She sells medical devices and whatever. And I just photographed her mom yesterday.
- [55:23]
B
Awesome for her personal branding.
- [55:24]
A
And we had a Blast. And I love her shoot so much. But you're right. And networking is something that we talk about constantly on the portrait system because you're right. You never know who your next connection could be. It's so incredibly important. And whatever genre you're in, it's so incredibly important to get yourself out there and be networking. And I know sometimes people don't want to hear that, but it is crucial, crucial to get yourself out there.
- [55:54]
B
Yeah. I mean, you're not going to find, you know, your next commercial client by just doing Facebook or Instagram ads or just, you know, responding to a post on Facebook. You know, sometimes looking into ISO or, you know, that's, that's not going to happen because that's not the way, you know, the commercial or even editorial advertising world works. And it's just really, you know, that, that establishing the trust and knowing that they can trust you. And, you know, it's, it's consistently seeing your name repeated or, you know, like newsletters are really big in the commercial world or advertising, you know, that world where you're, you know, sending out your newsletters with, you know, test shoots and collaborative shoots. I do a ton of test shoots, you know, collaborating with different people. You know, maybe there's a wardrobe stylist that you can work with. Maybe there's a new model, there's a new face. You know, one of the feedbacks that I got, you know, I do a lot of portfolio reviews where I get feedback for my work as well. And I love something like that usually where, you know, because it's like, you know, sometimes I'm like, give me the hard stuff. I'm totally okay hearing it, you know, and one of the feedbacks, and it's not really criticism, it's sort of like, understand, understanding and learning. Right. One of the feedback I remember I got was like, you know, try to use more real models. And I was like, I love the fact that I like to use the authentic, you know, you know, real people as much as possible versus like real models who are acting in a scenario. Right. So that's like, oh, well, you know, I know the commercial industry likes to see the very typical smiling in a very put together kind of images. And that's not really what I'm there like. Right. So sometimes, you know, you can get feedback which is all right, okay, that's great. Like that feedback is good to hear because you're like, okay, how can I, you know, know that, you know, what is out there in terms of like what the reviewers want to see. Or like, you know, what are people wanting to see? Et cetera, et cetera. So. So just knowing where you stand versus also getting that valuable feedback was really great and important, too.
- [58:09]
A
Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing all of this. This has been really great. And again, I really encourage people to just check out your work. It's just gorgeous.
- [58:19]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [58:21]
A
All right, well, at the end of each episode, I always ask the same four questions. And for time's sake, we have to get on to those questions. And the first question is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [58:34]
B
My SD cards, because they've been a really bad, you know, time when I've forgotten my SD cards and I didn't realize where it was.
- [58:45]
A
Yeah, yeah, I've. Well, okay. I shouldn't say there was a time when I didn't use the backup card slot and. Oh, my gosh, Joe. I always used to. I might have told this story before if I did. People listening. I'm sorry. But it's a good one. I always. Okay. When I lived in Seattle, I was always super nervous about getting my gear stolen. And if I had my SD card separate from my. At the time, it was a CF card that I was using. But if I had the CF card separate from my gear, if my gear got stolen, I would still have the images. So I would take the card out and put it in my pocket and, you know, then drive home or whatever. So I had to go to the bathroom before I left the studio, and out of my pocket, the CF card fell straight into the toilet. I'm not even kidding. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I. Of course I had to stick my hand in the toilet. Like, it was just one of those things. And you know what? It was fine. Apparently, SanDisk CF cards are waterproof. Oh, it worked just fine. But I was flipping out, and the woman that I just photographed had just had. Or she was just about to have brain surgery.
- [60:03]
B
Oh, my God.
- [60:04]
A
Yeah, it was crazy, Joe. Anyway, so I definitely, ever since then, have always used my second card slot.
- [60:11]
B
Yeah, that's a great tip. Yeah. No, it has happened to me, too, so. But, yeah, it's a scary feeling.
- [60:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [60:26]
B
I would say a lot of the time with my family, and that was the biggest reason where I wanted to really pull back from working weekends or after hours of any sort. So I'm very strict with my family time. It's very sacred for me.
- [60:42]
A
All right, awesome. Very cool. It looks like you love to travel and.
- [60:46]
B
Yeah, we're just planning our next vacation right now in December, so.
- [60:50]
A
Fantastic.
- [60:50]
B
Travel and eat. I don't cook as much.
- [60:55]
A
Where are you guys going?
- [60:56]
B
We're planning on Maui. Going? Yeah.
- [61:00]
A
Nice. All right, number three is, what is a photography specific product that you would recommend people to get?
- [61:07]
B
My gosh. I think, I think for me, when I used to take pride in saying that I was a very natural light photographer back in the day, but when I. I remember Winning a ProFoto A1 flash unit Many, many, many years ago now, and it just, I actually even debated of selling that to make money. I was like, I just want it. I could just sell it and make $1,000 off it. But now, like, I like, even if I just like, it's always there. Like, you know, my A2, that's the small. A Profoto A2 is literally. I can, I can take it in my handbag too. And I never leave the house without it. And I know it just feels like, like, oh, I don't know, maybe I'll need it. Like, I don't know, maybe I just need the extra light. Like, what if I. So I feel like I'm just. It's like glued to me that I just take it every single where, every single place I go to that I really take my Profoto A2 light. So it was a game changer for me.
- [62:08]
A
All right, cool. And number four is, what do you tell people who are just starting out?
- [62:15]
B
Ooh, I think I would say that don't worry too much about every single piece of information to get every single thing correct. Just take as many photos as you can or want to or able to because there's always the delete button. You know, practice. Just keep practicing. Don't worry about making mistakes. You know, just photograph everything and anything as much as you can. In the beginning, I used to do 365, you know, a year or I've never gone through a whole 365 intended to, but like, you know, essentially just photograph as much as you can. That could be any subjects and whatever because it's really, really helpful to make those mistakes and learn. Only then you kind of just figure out, you know, what you really like or where your heart really lies at.
- [63:15]
A
I love that. That's beautiful advice.
- [63:17]
B
Thank you.
- [63:18]
A
Where can people find you online?
- [63:19]
B
Oh, on Instagram. I just changed my handle about a year ago. I decided to use my full name or my name. So instagram.com. joe J Y O underscore and my last name, B Pamidipati. That's B H A M I D I P A T I Or my website, which is Jotznow J Y O T S N a dash photography dot com.
- [63:49]
A
Fantastic. Well, thank you. Thank you again for all of this. This has been really, really interesting and I'm excited to keep watching you and keep watching you grow. And you're speaking at wppi, right?
- [63:58]
B
Yes. Awesome.
- [63:59]
A
Very cool. Well, I will see you there.
- [64:02]
B
Yes, I will. Thank you so much. This was amazing.
- [64:05]
A
Thank you. All right, sweet. I will see you in person in March in Las Vegas very soon.
- [64:10]
B
Yes. Yeah, I'm excited. It's March. I forget the dates even now. But yes, March. March is going to be a busy month for me. Actually, I'm speaking at a couple of other places too, so.
- [64:21]
A
Oh, that's exciting.
- [64:23]
B
Yeah.
- [64:23]
A
All right, well, you take care and I will see you soon.
- [64:26]
B
All right. Thank you.
- [64:28]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subrication.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, That's Sue Bryce, education.com.