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The Portrait System Podcast
How Photographers Can Increase Sales with Branding Photography Packages
00:54:30
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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com sign up and and sign up Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
You know, people always say the right clients will say yes. The right clients will say yes. But you still have this moment of oh, but will they say yes to me. And once you get that validation and nothing better, after that's booked and all said and done and you get that wonderful client review, then you just literally on top of the world. There's nothing better than that.
- [00:59]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. This episode of the Portrait System podcast is all about real life marketing strategies that actually work. I'm Nikki Klosser and my guest this week is Simone Dorfman. She's a photographer in South Africa and she has a $2,000 average sale. During our conversation, she shares exactly how she markets her work and increases her sales by adding some pretty awesome services for her clients. We break down the small but powerful choices she makes that keeps her income high. There are so many practical takeaways in this one, especially if you're looking to increase your sales without overcomplicating your marketing. Okay, let's get started with Simone Dorfman. Hi Simone. Welcome to the portrait system.
- [02:24]
B
Hi, Nikki. It is so good to be here.
- [02:27]
A
Yeah. You're all the way in South Africa.
- [02:30]
B
Yes. On the other side of the world. I live in a small town called Bolito, which is nearby one of the biggest cities called Durban. And at the moment, it's just absolutely cooking here. We're in the heat of summer.
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A
You're so lucky. It's like 2 degrees here in Michigan right now. It's been such a horrible winter.
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B
Oh, my goodness. I would not be surprised.
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A
Yeah, it's not fun. I always love interviewing people from different parts of the world because we have listeners from all over so many different countries. It's so cool. And it's always interesting to see what the similarities are or if you do things differently or how things, you know. Although I will say oftentimes a business model is a business model wherever you are. So, you know, if you're not from South Africa, don't tune out, because I. I have a feeling a lot of it is going to be the same. And one more thing, you did say that you've listened to this podcast a lot and have implemented what you've learned from here.
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B
So a hundred percent.
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A
Yeah, it'll be interesting.
- [03:33]
B
I think that is the thing now. And just with the whole global economy, I suppose, and photographers as well, so much of our resources, or. Although laws are different, yes, customers are slightly different than your clients and perhaps some things that your clients are trying to achieve. But in general, we're getting a lot of our information from the same resources and those things are sort of aligning and we just adapting to our own country and currency and, you know, in what works over here.
- [04:03]
A
Yeah. You know, it's funny because even in the States, like, a lot of the education that comes out of the States, people are still, you know, using it, but also tweaking it and adapting it to what works for them. Like the business model that I've been using forever, that I learned from sue and, you know, the portrait system and all of these things so long ago, I've just kind of tweaked it and I've taken pieces that have worked for me and, you know, maybe change some things. So, yeah, it's interesting how it all works.
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B
So 100%.
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A
Yeah. Okay. So how long have you been a photographer?
- [04:36]
B
So, sure. I've actually been a photographer now for. Professionally over 10 years, I'd say, actually. Oh, my gosh. Probably going on to 12, 13, now that I think of it. You know, when I was a teenager, I had always been sort of a hobbyist. I was interested in this, and my dad had always done photography as a hobby. So I got a little bit used to camera settings, all of those sorts of things, and playing around. And then as I got older, went into sort of a few different careers. I worked at a mining company for a very brief period, worked in retail, had my little hand in at modeling, and eventually, you know, was just working, not corporate as such, but I was working with my sister and we were bringing in products from the United States, actually selling it in South Africa. It was going really well. And then we had the global recession. Everything sort of changed. And in South Africa, our currency was particularly impacted. So that whole shipping situation was making it impossible for our end clients to really continue. So I sat back and I was like, okay, am I going into a corporate thing or am I going to try and hustle my way into something different? And obviously photography came first to mind. And I just started putting myself out there slowly, just trying to do portfolio work and literally anything that people were open to letting me shoot. I was like, yes. I mean, not good advice, but I was doing a lot for free or next to nothing when I started. And it also helps you just learn what you're interested in, what you're not interested in, and what you really need to learn more about. And as my confidence grew and people kept on coming back to me, I was like, hey, I can start charging for this now. Obviously, in alignment with that, I had started taking a few online courses as well as physical ones. I started renting gear every now and then when I could afford certain lighting setups and things like that, just that I could play with. And YouTube videos were my best friends. Podcasts, unfortunately at that time weren't as popular. Yes. But yeah, I just got like a lot of information, knowledge. When I would get a new job that I wasn't completely comfortable with, I would just dive into the Internet, get everything that I could, all the knowledge I could take in, and then just try and try wing it. But I mean, wing it with knowledge.
- [07:19]
A
But yeah, right, yeah, your story, I mean, I guess it's definitely unique because the, the global change and your currency and all of that, like, there's nothing you can do about that. I mean, it's. But, but like Damian Carter, who I just recently interviewed, he got laid off from his job and he's like, okay, what am I gonna do? You know, you had a business that all of a sudden was no longer working. What am I gonna do? It's, it's, it's crazy how as stressful and just scary it can be when you're in some sort of transition like that, sometimes something really beautiful can come out of it, you know, I mean like, if you could go back, would you still be in that company? Or are you. Is it kind of a silver lining that you ended up in photography or how do you feel about all that?
- [08:10]
B
I definitely feel it was a silver lining. Obviously in the beginning there were times where I was, I had major imposter syndrome and I thought, is there any way that I'm really going to get this right? You know, also I was sort of starting off mid 20s where a lot of people that were photographers at the time had already started professionally working since their early 20s. And to me that felt like, whoa, I'm starting so late in life when I look back at it now. But it really wasn't. And you know, I love the diversity of my job because I don't really just stick to sort of one genre. I do work in the brand space as well as the lifestyle space as well as portraits and I love that diversity. I love that every day is different. I love that. I like the challenges that it brings and I like having my own time. Although obviously there's some moments that are more stressful. That's yeah, definitely wouldn't change us.
- [09:14]
A
And I hope people who listening, who are listening, who are out there, who are, you know, are in that situation where some big change happened, you lost your job or, you know, divorce or just something where you're just feeling like, oh my gosh, how am I going to make this work? I love hearing stories from people who were, who were there, you know, in that scary space, but now things are better, you know, like there is hope there. Not to say it's easy and yes, it's going to take a lot of work, but you can do it. And, and what you said about having the freedom, you know, your time, control of your time, that is such a huge thing for being an entrepreneur. Like when I think back to when I was a school social worker, it was Monday through Friday. I left my house at 7am, didn't get home until 5:30, sometimes 6, like. And yeah, anyways, it's not your own
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B
anymore, you know, and I find that even now when I have got a lot better with my, my editing as well as shooting, timing, setting up those boundaries that, you know, I've obviously gone through the nights where I've been late night editing and I still wouldn't change it. Even though in the moment I'm like, probably should have planned this better, But I still wouldn't change it because in my own space, I'm doing what I enjoy. And, yeah, I'd rather have those extra hours behind the computer a little bit later than be in the desk. Not in the desk at the. At the desk at the office.
- [10:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So like, you said, you started out, did some free things. I did the same. Okay. I love that you said people were coming back to you because that means you're doing something right. And when you. You mentioned imposter syndrome, I think we've all been there. I know I was there. But it's. Gosh, sometimes it just takes that first paid client or, you know, when you raise your prices, that one first big sale to be like, okay, I got this. Like, I remember when I first raised my prices, and my starting prices were now $1,200, and I was, like, sweating bullets the first time I sent out that PDF, I was like, oh, God, she's gonna. Like, I'm never gonna hear from her again. I was so nervous. And sure enough, she booked me. And at the time, I was doing in person photo viewings where I had the photos printed with prints and mat boards. Now I do everything digitally where I do a digital photo viewing via Zoom, and we do the slideshow and go through the photos. But at the time, I was a little bit more focused on portraits other than personal branding. Anyway, I remember sitting in this coffee shop, like, just freaking out, you know, when she saw. Anyway, she's like, yeah, I'll take them. I'll take the biggest package, and just, like, wrote me a check. And I was like, holy shit.
- [12:15]
B
What a feeling.
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A
Yeah. Like, all right, I gotta, like, buckle up, because I'm. I can do this.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So it's just that one.
- [12:25]
B
It's just that little yes. That just gears you into the right direction. Yeah, no, totally. I can completely resonate with that feeling. And it's so scary. And, you know, people always say, the right clients will say yes. The right clients will say yes. But you still have this moment of, oh, but will they say yes to me? And once you get that validation and nothing better after that's booked and all said and done and you get that wonderful client review, then you just literally on top of the world. There's nothing better than that.
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A
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, you said you're from a. It's a pretty small town where you live.
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B
Yes.
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A
How small are we talking?
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B
So, I mean, yeah, in the scale of things, I think our town is Probably I'd like to say around 25,000 people over here, which is small in comparison to the major cities. Also, our nearest major city is a town called Durban, which, yeah, it definitely does have a lot of commercial things and all of that going on. But. But our really major cities in South Africa are Johannesburg and Cape Town and they've got a lot more of the brands, you know, just high spenders, if I could put it like that. Yeah, a lot more of them are based in Joburg and Cape Town.
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A
Okay, so marketing. Marketing is such an important topic that, you know, a lot of people really struggle with and some people are really good at it. And I think people are always looking for different tips and especially that we have a lot of listeners who are in these smaller towns feeling like I'm just not going to find my clients here. And man, I go back and forth about it because, I mean, there are a lot of people who do really well in their little small towns, but sometimes it means going outside of your town. So how are you marketing, you know, both within, you know, the town where you live and to Johannesburg and I can't remember what other city.
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B
Sorry.
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A
But yeah, Cape Town. How are you making that work? Because that's a big reach. I mean, it's. And I'm sure also the competition is a lot stiffer and. Okay, I hate that I use the word competition because it's really not because there's a enough clients for all of us. But I'm assuming it's more saturated in those cities with unknown. Okay, so got that out. Now take us through how you do your marketing. How are you getting your clients?
- [15:04]
B
So what's wonderful now is that I'm at a point where it's a lot more organic and word of mouth that I'm getting, but leading up to that, I would. So just in a, in a nutshell, a lot of my lion's share of income sort of comes more from my brand and content work as well as product photography, that sort of thing. And so I would run targeted ads more in Johannesburg and Cape Town just because I knew that's where, you know, those people live, you know, well, they live here too, but with the bigger businesses where I'd like to market my higher package, that's. I'm more likely going to get a bite over there. So I started just, you know, Instagram ads, Facebook ads, just also driving people more to my website than for likes, you know, on my actual page, just getting them to get in contact with me.
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A
Can I stop you there for A second, you said ads. So you have found that ads have been successful for you.
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B
So yes, initially, not all the time actually. Don't get discouraged if your answer is getting discovered to people listening. Don't get discouraged if you're not always getting bites on your ads. But what I did just find is it brought a higher, high foot traffic to my website and through that they were just like a little bit more leads that did slowly, slowly trickle through, trickle, trickle, trickle, trickle. And I do just remember when the first time I got a client that was completely unrelated to me, one of the out of my scope of usual clients. That's when I was like, okay, the ads are working because I knew that there was no way they would have landed on me otherwise.
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A
Are your ads very visual? Is it very visual? Are you using really catchy wording or is there a call to action? I'm just curious if you could just sum up an ad that you think may have worked successfully. What did it encompass?
- [17:10]
B
So I would say yeah, very visual. I always choose an image that I'd want to be working on. Sort of, well, not working on, but sort of the genre that I want to be working on. So for example, because in Joburg and K Town I'm targeting more of my brand clients, I generally first get the okay from one of my previous brand clients that they are happy for me to run the ad through there and just that extra usage and then promote that ad. That's very visual. More call to action. Visit my webpage or contact me. That's really my big drive. I don't, I don't overcomplicate it. I'm not massively focused on all of these like SEO words and things. I do take suggestions often. You know, Google just, or Meta rather just gives you the suggestions. Tick, tick, tick, ticks. Or I will do that brand, product, fashion, you know, food and eat wherever I'm targeting. And then I let it run and I try let it run usually for like a month or yeah. And just let it run in the background and hope that it does its thing.
- [18:25]
A
You said something really important there is that you don't overcomplicate things. There are times when I see ads and I might watch for a few seconds and I'm not even quite sure what it's for or you know, like if you're going to do ads, we have like a millisecond to catch someone's attention. So that photo better be like one of your best. That is really attention grabbing in the words like you said it needs to be a call to action, Tell them what you want them to do, you know, visit my website, contact me here. You know, just something to really, really grab their attention. And you're giving them permission. Please come to my website, please message me, you know, just something telling them what to do.
- [19:10]
B
I think that people spend so much time on creating these long, beautiful captions and that's great that like you say, people don't have the attention span for it. So especially when you're grabbing a new customer and especially I feel at least in like the brand content space, they're not looking for the captions. They want to hire you for the imagery that you create. They, they're going to do that side of things. So they just want to see that you can produce really cool things and that's, that's what they want from you. And you know, in my, my title I have my, my name, well, my company name, which is just Simone DS Photography. So they know I'm a photographer already. I don't have to explain that in the, the caption. And.
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A
Right.
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B
I want you to come to me because you can see what I'm doing. You like what I'm doing. You're phoning me for what I'm doing right there.
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A
I think there's a time and a place for these really long videos, you know, behind the scenes videos where you're starting and you're showing hair and makeup and then showing the wardrobe or whatever, all these things. But with an ad like this, you have your, you can't save the best part for the last. For the, for last. It has to be, you have to catch them right at the beginning. And I remember when I was going to a bunch of networking meetings, you know, multiple times a week when I was first starting out, and I kept hearing over and over, no, I hate having my photos done. I'm, you know, I'm not ready for a shoot. I hate having my photo taken, whatever. And so I started really gathering that information of what people were telling me. So I, one of my, the text was, if you hate having your photo taken, I'm the photographer for you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, and it like catches their attention right away, you know, call me now or, you know, here's my website or what. Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there that like you said, don't overcomplicate it. You've got to grab their attention right away. And if you're thinking. Yeah. And if you're thinking about doing an ad, run it by someone.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, not Your grandma or your mom who's going to be like, oh, it's wonderful, but run it by someone like, hey, would this grab your attention immediately? You know, get some feedback 100%.
- [21:18]
B
And even just on Instagram as it is, if you have been posting your work, there is. You can already access free analytics that is showing you what photo's been viewed the most, you know, so you can really see where are people's eyes being drawn, just on your page. Okay, cool. Like, they really like this side of my work. And that's a great tool to just understand what your market is, is viewing, you know, and. And using that information. And also what I would say, especially in the small town side of things where this. That client base falls in. I would never overlook the small community groups. You know, there's so many of these local, like, Facebook groups and WhatsApp groups and all these things. And I one of actually on a wedding side of things, I remember, you know, there's a lot of photographers that actually are in this town, but very different styles. And I've sort of understood my target markets. I can sort of gauge if I see their social page, I think they'll like my stuff or they're not my clients. And I remember there was a Facebook. In a Facebook community, a girl was looking for a photographer. She was from out of town, and she was having her wedding in Belizeo. And I saw a lot of people suggesting some other photographers that I knew were completely different to my style. So I was like, let me just go look at this client. So I started her profile and I thought, you know what, I think she might actually prefer my vibes. And I just threw my name in the hat. And two days later, she contacted me for my rates. The next day she booked me. And it was just that wedding was purely just Facebook community groups that did their work, you know. So I think, you know, that that side of thing, you can also reach people on a real personal basis and actually physically suss out your customer, because you can sometimes know, you know, just from their social pages a little bit more about their vibe and essence and energy and all that sort of thing.
- [23:36]
A
Those local Facebook groups have gotten me so much business. It was funny the other day, I'd seen in our little hometown group, someone said, I don't want to hear from photographers. I want to hear from people who have used a photographer that they really like. And it was for senior photos. And so I'm like, well, I can't drop my name down. Because she just said, I don't want to hear from photographers. And I'm like, hey, there's a post in there. And I know you and your daughter loved the photos or whatever. Would you mind? She was like, oh, hell yeah. So she goes in and she, you know, recommended. Yeah. And then one more quick thing that I don't know if people realize they can do this. I think Instagram is funny because it changes so much, but if you do, this might be obvious to some people. I didn't even realize it until not that long ago that I could tag my client as a collaborator so that if she accepts that collaborator, now it's showing up in her feedback as though she posted it. And I'm getting like way more reach on my reels or my posts. I just did it with a senior, a senior high school senior client, and she accepted the collaboration. And within like 10 minutes, I had five new seniors following me. And I, this is the time they're. They're shopping around.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah.
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A
I don't know if it'll end up being a booking or not, but you
- [24:58]
B
never know that exposure. Yeah, but that's the thing. It just. And those people, it all. You become more presence in different algorithms just because they started following you. And it's all just this domino effect of reach, actually. Yeah. And also I think what a really cool tool now is, is that Instagram's also introduced the little repost tool. So what essentially happens, or what I used it for is I've got my personal Instagram accounts and I think a whole bunch of people actually didn't even know that I was a photographer. They know me from years ago. You know how many people actually don't know your career? And so I recently started taking from my photography social page and reposting it onto to my personal page just as a repost. So if a person clicks through it, they go to my photography page. And I got, I mean, just a handful of old, very old friends that reached out to me for a variety of different things and being like, hey, Sim, I didn't know that you did this. I've actually been looking for a photographer for this and, you know, I'd love to work with you. Which worked out to just a nice, wonderful job because I knew the clients and yeah, moved into work, which was great.
- [26:23]
A
Yeah, that's a really good point. I actually, I didn't realize it, but I do use the repost sort of. So I'll share from my Instagram onto my personal Facebook page. And I just recently started doing that because I was at hockey. My son's hockey practice. And one of the parents said to me, I didn't know you were, you know, someone mentioned you were a photographer. I had no idea. And we were friends on Facebook, and she still didn't know I was a photographer. And so I'm like, gosh, there's even in my, you know, I still haven't tapped into so much of my own community. So then I started sharing, you know, my Instagram posts. I'm. I don't flood my feed with it. Cause I don't want, you know, but every so often I'll do that. And people are like, oh, sweet. You know, I'm gonna put you, you know, make sure I put you down for, you know, when I need new photos for my business or whatever. And so it's anyway, amazing.
- [27:19]
B
Yeah, no, I think it's a great way. And also on that side, people already have an idea of who you are. They already know. They like, they hopefully get along with you. So it's really all in your favor that they've got that relationship with you before taking the next step to booking, especially if it is a larger tier package or even the smaller ones. You know, I just think it builds that initial confidence.
- [27:44]
A
Okay, any other marketing strategies that have worked really well for you?
- [27:49]
B
And so I think also just like, not collaborating as such, but just teaming up with various other people in the industry. That's just been great. You know, just working on packages together and running sort of small, small campaigns where we'll do like, for example, I worked with the local stylists in the area, and we came up with just like a content clothing stylist. Yes. But she also actually works with all sorts of things. She's great at food styling. She's. She can wear many hats, but her main thing is clothing styling. And we just actually came up with like a nice brand contents booster pack that we just ran as a special for new brands and booked a variety of slots throughout the day and created this whole little content day. And it was great because we had her reach, we had my reach. There were a few other girls that were on board and we just, yeah, created cool little content packs for a variety of brands. And we all got to meet each other's clients and, you know, just a great way to collaborate, meet, find new people. Yeah.
- [29:05]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. There's a theme here, whether it's online or in person, is getting yourself out there. So like you said on that one post you saw you put your name in the hat and you book, book that client. Like it's so important to get yourself out there. Yeah. I cannot stress that enough. You can't just host and have a good website and hope people are going to find you like more than that. Yeah, yeah. In business. To business is a really great way. I partnered with a clothing stylist when I lived in Seattle and. And she brought me lots of clients and. And it was cool too, because the clients came with outfits that she had styled for them. So that worked great as well because I knew the colors were going to be perfect for them, you know, and all of that. So there's definitely 100%.
- [30:41]
B
And I find that it already makes your job easier because you're working with someone who's giving this cool art direction. So take some of your role. You can take a step back in some ways, and they can take a step forward in some ways and vice versa. It just really elevates each of you and your value. And I mean, what I also find was great going forward from that is we always bounce off each other. If I know that there's a client that's looking for a specific stylist or recommendation for art direction, I'll always put their name, her name in the hat and vice versa. She'll always recommend me to her clients if they're still looking for their photographer or, you know, so you just continually bounce off each other. And I think it's just network is absolutely invaluable.
- [31:29]
A
Absolutely. Okay, let's talk a little bit about pricing. And. And if you want to stick with, I think you said the. Your kind of bread and butter is branding and that, like product photography, branding, all things small business. If you want to stick with that. Talk about that pricing. Yeah. Tell me about in South Africa, like, what's how's it going over there?
- [31:54]
B
So, yeah, so my lion's share of my income definitely comes from my brand work. And with my brand work I sort of my top tier package in South African rands, it equates to around 25,000 to 30,000 rand. But in dollars, that's around $2,000 for that package, which is great for me and my lifestyle. So I aim to get around three to five of those sessions a month. Those sorts of branding sessions incorporates everything from E Com photography to some studio shots to a real content dense package. And so that the clients essentially walk away with everything they need for their websites, socials, campaigns. Anything that they possibly need they can get from that day and it's going to last them a farewell. And then, yeah, apart from that, then I have smaller tiered packages which is sort of like my filler slots. If editing time and processing and everything allows for that.
- [33:01]
A
Okay, that makes sense. So I mean $2,000 is a great sales average in South Africa. Like that's incredible. It really is. Yeah, yeah. What do you include? I know you said there's the different types of shoots that you do, but are you giving a ton of digitals? Is there a print product involved? Like what do your packages include?
- [33:25]
B
So my focus is mainly on digitals, but it is quite a digital intense folder for delivery at the end of the day because again, working on my top tier package, I will essentially have E Com products which will give around two to three views of each product. Then I will have studio contents which is just like really cool styled and studio work that just is really nice for banner images, adverts where they just want floating takes somewhere and just really nice usable images that are great to plug and play for various campaigns. And then the content stuff which will work around even as much as three different locations, obviously in a not too wide a vicinity where they can just get like a lot of different looks, feels, vibes with their contents that can last for social for a while. What I've also recently started doing is teaming up with other sort of creators where for example, there's another, I suppose we would call her content creators where she just works specifically with reels and so as a value add they can book her and she'll come with me so she's got all of the real contents and she'll create reels while I'm shooting photography and we bounce off each other. But then they get a whole bunch of reels as a part of their package, which is really nice. And Muffy also will include a Stylist. So I usually bring someone in just to help me with the styling while I'm shooting. So, yeah, so it feels full for the clients at the end of the day that they've got a lot of content to last them for sort of everything that they need to be launching with on their website, socials, ads, anything.
- [35:26]
A
I'm looking at your website right now and the way you just described your brand is exactly what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a variety for one. But even though there's a variety of. In studio, on location, your compositions are very different. Some of them are very close, some of them are full body, you know, and even with the product, like there's such a great variety, but I can. But there's a style to it though. So even though a photo might look very different in studio versus on location, you can tell you've got this really cool style and eye. And I just really love the variety that you're providing your clients. Like, if I had a product, I would 100% hire you. I mean, it's just like the angles in which, like I believe this is for suntan lotion and it's just this, this woman, like laying in the sun and the sun is on her and then the suntan bottles are like on her stomach instead of just a picture of a suntan lotion bottle or whatever. I mean, and I'm not just talking about with just products, even with your, with your portraits, there's such a variety, but there's also, you can, you can just see your style in it. I really, really love it.
- [36:48]
B
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Yeah, so that really is just my aim to give like a lot of different, different content that a client can really go out there and just use, use.
- [37:04]
A
You know, it's like, I think at first I'm like, wow, she must just get really cool brands all the time that like my, my first instinct is like only really cool looking, trendy brands reach out was my initial instinct. When I. Then I was like, no, it's what she's doing with the product, with the people in each photo. I mean, yeah, it's. I'm really impressed. I can see why. Yeah, I can see why people are hiring you for this. And it's. Yeah, it just, it seems like you're doing a really, really great job of showing a ton of diversity, a ton of variety in your photos. And I also really love what you said, especially when you're working with businesses, if you can provide them with enough content that is Unique and different that they can post for an entire year. And you're saying like you're only going to spend $2,000 for your social media for the year or for six months or whatever. Like when you break it down like that, that's pretty amazing.
- [38:08]
B
This is the thing and I found what's been actually so wonderful is there's been through word of mouth, which is really, I'm so grateful for that. I've had a lot of my clients have actually, I mean it's so cheesy to say, but really a lot of them have turned to friends because we spend so much time together in the lead up to the shoots, the, the developments. I'll sit with them and go through mood boards and putting together and plotting and planning and do we need models, do we need this? You know, just really bringing everything together. And you know, there's a lot of clients that I get now that are just from word of mouth from those existing clients and they'll have a friend who's starting a brand or starting with different products and they just really need to get started and they've sent them my way and I hope to be, you know, sort of that, that one stop shop for them, which is
- [39:03]
A
for busy entrepreneurs. Being a one stop shop is great to not have to schedule multiple things and multiple people and multiple sessions and yeah, it's pretty awesome.
- [39:15]
B
Yeah. And I also. So on top of that, I give my brands and clients an option of sort of brand booster packages in between. So if they don't have this whole new shipment of products or you know, where they need such a big day of shooting that we can do smaller shoots in between where they actually just send me their products and I create a small, a much smaller but still content diverse package for them just to top up the feed and freshness and a few new products and you know, that just really helps them roll over until the next like big drop or season change or you know, things, things like that.
- [40:00]
A
Right, right. How did you find the person who does the reels? So, you know, how do you even find someone if you're, if you're out there as a photographer and you want to incorporate that into what you sell, to have this sort of add on, how would they even find someone like that?
- [40:17]
B
I mean, I must be honest, I was very fortunate with her because I actually met her through a friend at a party and I didn't really even realize that she did that. But she was just very big into social media and content creation and her role had also grown Very organically she was working in an advertising agency and she was started to do reels for everything that they were doing. And slowly just friends of hers actually were asking them to come to reels for their events or come do reels for all of these variety and things. And she started to also just organically realize, hey, I could see start charging for this. And I was just fortunate that I, I knew her and started to bring her into some things. And it's worked out so great because I have so many clients that do want that real side of things but it's really not my specialty. And you know, I've even had the clients when we start the process they go oh, are the reels included or can you do just a couple of reels? And I'm like to be honest, if I do a reel for you, it's going to look like a six year old put that together. But you know, photography is my speciality. But I do have this person that this is her thing and it's an extra X amount I always hers I always get on a quote by quote basis depending on how many reels they want, how many hours they want her there from the day. But yeah, put together a curator quote for her and then bring her into the, into the works. But yeah, I would, I would say also just to fully answer your question, I think that people should just lock into the community and, and ask put themselves out there to say hey, is there anyone out there doing this? Because there might be some really talented people that are just doing it for themselves that could do it for brands and hey, you could just like fall on a gym and just check their work before you bring them into anything serious. But yeah, you know there's a lot of, lot of talented individuals out there now that are just doing this for fun and they could be charging.
- [42:22]
A
That's exactly I was gonna say is, is tap into your network first. Who on social media do you watch that? You know, it could be your friend's daughter, you know, or I, I hate to say that it's only like young 20 somethings who are really good at
- [42:36]
B
but you know,
- [42:40]
A
that's what they know how to do, you know, and maybe they don't have a business yet, but maybe you can tell they are just really good at putting together content and reels for themselves and their friends. Like maybe you could bring them, bring them on board and even just as a test run, you know, you could have a client where you just let them know I'm testing this out. Would you mind and you know, just see how it goes and that sort of thing. And I just like, even though I know I'm capable of creating my own content and everything, the thought of having someone come in and film reels for me and they just hand me something to post. Oh, sign me up.
- [43:28]
B
Absolutely. Because you know, that's the one thing that I dread in this new space is the real making and that side of things, it's just, it doesn't come naturally to me at all. So having someone to call on that is strong in that department is really helpful for client value. Although I do need to actually just incorporate it in my own social media strategy a little bit more. But we'll get there.
- [43:54]
A
Yeah. I have one more question about your lighting because looking at your outdoor on location photos, it's like it looks like you're using light but I only know that because I'm a photographer and I can see it where I don't think non photographers would be able to necessarily pick it out. What's your lighting setup for when you're outdoors?
- [44:20]
B
So I am really a mixed bag of chips when it comes to that. So I am an absolute natural light lover. If the day is right, the weather's right, I'm going to use natural light to its absolute ultimum. Sorry.
- [44:38]
A
No, no, I knew what you meant.
- [44:40]
B
Just, just getting my reflectors. I love a little gold reflector and the light that it brings. But I also do play around with flash outside as well. But usually only one, one single flash. I'm off camera. Off camera? Yeah, off camera. And sometimes, actually sometimes lately I have been dabbling on camera flash as well. It's not my go to but I do do it every now and then.
- [45:10]
A
Do you use some sort of modifier with it when you do on camera?
- [45:14]
B
So. Oh yes, yes, yes. So I have one of those. The name has actually completely slipped from my mind but it's one of those plastic domes.
- [45:25]
A
Yes, I know what you're talking about.
- [45:27]
B
And it's, it's rubbery so you can, you can put, you can shape it which is so cool because you can keep it in full dome mode. You can keep it in like a C curve, you can give, give it in like a half dome and all of those. It's just so there's so many uses that you can get from it and I love the way you can play with your lights just with this one little tool which is really convenient. It's take around and just throw it on so often. I actually do do that when I'M on shoots is I just, I've got that, my flash and that modifier with me and if I see a moment where I'm like, we can, we can level this shot up. It's such a nice easy one to just throw on and you know, with minimal setup or anything like that. Because I mean, it's on your on camera flash.
- [46:13]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I used to have one and I cannot remember the name of it, but when I was shooting weddings because there were. I couldn't have off camera flash when I was following the wedding party around or whatever. Like it had to be on my camera or during the reception. And I'm just, you know, going from table to table and I can't remember what it's called, but I'm looking on online right now. Godox has one. Magpod has one. Yeah, there's.
- [46:38]
B
Yeah, Godox.
- [46:39]
A
Okay.
- [46:39]
B
Yeah. But it's a great tool. Like it's just so diverse and that's great.
- [46:45]
A
Yeah, I was just thinking, I kind of asked that for myself too. I was just curious because there are times when I'm shooting outdoor and I am a natural light lover as well. I can handle full sun shade or sorry, overcast, whatever. But there are sometimes I'm like, I just want that little pop. But I also don't want to be dealing with off camera. And I know so many people out there are going to be like, it's so easy, you just have to do it whatever on camera. And I just kind of have forgotten about that rubbery thing I used to use back in the day. I might play around with it.
- [47:22]
B
Yeah, definitely. I highly recommend. It's honestly just my favorite little tool. And I completely hear what you're saying because even when I do plan for my off cam camera stroke, it is just a little bit of an extra hack. I know it's not at the end of the day, but I like to get in the rhythm and move and I move to so many different locations and I'm moving around. So the more convenient the better. I really will always opt for not the easiest path, but yeah, the easiest path to keep my like my flow going.
- [47:58]
A
Efficiency. And I like when I'm doing senior shoots in the summer, which is when most of the shoots that I do outdoors because my branding stuff is usually in studio. I have a wildflower field and I am like going from one to the next to the angle to the, you know, like I'm all over the place. There might be bees over here, so I gotta move her quick. She doesn't Want to get stung or, like, you know, whatever. So to be able to just move with, with on camera flash and. Yeah. So I'm gonna try it out.
- [48:28]
B
On a side note, I've seen your wildflower field, and it is absolutely beautiful. I'm just like, where can I find that over here. It's my next location store.
- [48:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun. I've had some hit or misses with growing it, because growing wildflowers can be tricky, at least on our property, like, we have. Well, this year we're going to really go for it and take a plot of land and like, basically, like, burn it down so that there's no weeds that are going to grow. Because, like, I would have. All the flowers would be growing. Great. And the next thing I know, all of the thistle and other weeds are just, like, overtaking my flowers. And I'm like, no. Like the hours I spent planting. Anyway, I'm excited for this summer.
- [49:13]
B
That's so exciting.
- [49:15]
A
Big plans this summer. All right, well, thank you. Thank you for all of this information. It, you never know where, when, when I'm interviewing somewhere, you never know where it's going to go. And I'm glad we got so deep into marketing. You know, I, I, that wasn't necessarily the plan when I was interviewing you, but I, I'm so glad we went there because just hearing from someone who, you're not this, like, marketing guru or marketing specialist, it's like you're just, you just used some strategies that are working for you right now. And real life, you're, you're knee deep in business, and it's just, it's cool to hear what other people are doing. So thank you for that.
- [49:52]
B
Thank you. It's been so great chatting.
- [49:55]
A
Well, I do have four. You're not off the hook yet. I still have four. I always ask at the end of each episode, and the first question is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [50:07]
B
So I would have to say my 2470 lens is actually my most favorite lens. I find it so versatile. Obviously, I do use a lot of my primes, but I just absolutely have a love relationship with that lens and its versatility.
- [50:27]
A
Which lens is it? Which 24? Like, which brand?
- [50:30]
B
I've got the Sigma art, and I'm just obsessed. Like, it's just, it's just my baby. I go back to prime lens for certain things, and then I always, like, jump back to it. I just, again, I love it when I'M moving around and I'm in a flow and I can just. It just keeps me going without changing equipments and absolutes. Big fan.
- [50:52]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. I have a Sigma Art 50 and the 70 to 200. I have the Sigma.
- [50:58]
B
Oh, nice.
- [50:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [51:05]
B
I like to have absolutely no plans.
- [51:12]
A
Yeah.
- [51:12]
B
And just feel my way if it's a beautiful day. I love being at the beach beds. I also love to doing, you know, just being at home with a book and just chilling out and obviously, I mean, I suppose it's all of the boring answers but just being with like my friends and hanging out and.
- [51:30]
A
Yeah, that sounds wonderful. I love it. All right, number three, what is a photography specific product you would recommend? I know you already mentioned your lens and the on camera thing, but is there anything else you can think of?
- [51:46]
B
And so what I would actually recommend, especially in the lifestyle space, is some form of AI software. So I use Imagine and I think that it's. And I think you've actually spoken to Scott before. If I'm remembering correctly. I say like, I know him, he has no idea who I am, but watched a lot of his contents. But I just think that, that if you don't get involved with AI in some way, you will be left behind. And I think especially in like the lifestyle space at the moment, it can just ease your processes and time and all of those sorts of things by so much. And you know, I think it's a great tool.
- [52:30]
A
Yeah. And AI for editing purposes, not for like changing.
- [52:35]
B
Yes, yeah, absolutely. No, go on. Like changing things. We still want real people in the image. We want all of the realness, but just for just for making your processes easier.
- [52:47]
A
Yeah. Removing flyaway hairs and blemishes. It's like I don't even use a retoucher.
- [52:53]
B
I can't remember the days. Well, I can remember the days when using those clone stamp tools. So. Oh my gosh. Painful.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially when you're doing high volume photos.
- [53:08]
B
It's like, you know, oh my gosh. And for E. Com. Oh my word. It's just like. Right, there's that hair again.
- [53:16]
A
Yeah. All right, number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [53:25]
B
So I would say people say not to do this, but I do say within realms, do compare yourself. And not in a way that gives you imposter syndrome or that you're copying another person's style. But I think you learn when you do compare yourself if there's a photographer that you admire or there's a style you admire, or there's something that you want to bring into your work and lean into your own aesthetic. You know, you can look at a photographer and you can be like, wow, I really like how dynamic their posing is. Or I really like how they do these different crops or what time of day do I think they're shooting. I think asking those questions can really help you lean into your own style because you're looking at work you like and you're like, how can I make this my own? So not in a way that you feel less of yourself and definitely not in a way that you imitate anyone, but just that you can learn from this amazing community around us to improve yourself and keep yourself up there with everything that's going on around you.
- [54:32]
A
Yeah, that's great advice.
- [54:34]
B
Yeah.
- [54:35]
A
Awesome. Thank you. Where can people find you online? Simone.
- [54:38]
B
So I am Simone DS Photography. On Instagram, websites, Facebook, all the rest. Yeah.
- [54:46]
A
Fantastic. Awesome. Well, thank you again. This has been wonderful. I'm glad I got to chat with you. So thank you.
- [54:53]
B
Thank you so much, Nikki. It's been an absolute honor talking to you.
- [54:58]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to sue briceducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge. Plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com it.