How Stephanie Bordas Gets A High Booking Rate With Business To Business Marketing (Re-Release)

Summary

Summary of The Portrait System Podcast: "How Stephanie Bordas Gets A High Booking Rate With Business To Business Marketing (Re-Release)"

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Klosser engages in a detailed conversation with Stephanie Bordas, a prominent Brooklyn-based photographer specializing in maternity and boudoir photography. Released on June 27, 2025, this re-release delves deep into Stephanie’s remarkable success in maintaining a high booking rate through strategic business-to-business (B2B) marketing. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on building strong client relationships, effective marketing collaborations, and balancing entrepreneurial pursuits with personal life.

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Stephanie’s Journey: From Film Production to Photography

Stephanie begins by sharing her professional transition from a TV and film producer to a dedicated photographer. She explains that while her initial career was fulfilling, the demanding hours and extensive travel became untenable once she embraced motherhood.

"Once I had kids, it was just too hard. All the things that I loved about it became really impractical."
— Stephanie Bordas [08:09]

This shift allowed her to pursue her passion for photography more flexibly, enabling her to balance her business with family responsibilities.

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Strategic Business-to-Business Marketing

A cornerstone of Stephanie’s success is her adept use of B2B marketing strategies. She has cultivated a robust partnership with Sugar Cookies, a Manhattan-based lingerie boutique, enhancing her visibility and client base through mutual referrals and collaborative events.

Collaborations and Events

Stephanie recounts how her relationship with Sugar Cookies evolved organically from a shared interest in empowering women through their respective services. They began hosting joint events where clients could shop for lingerie and participate in mini boudoir shoots.

"We started with straight referrals... then we moved on to doing events together."
— Stephanie Bordas [18:24]

These events not only provide clients with a seamless and enjoyable experience but also serve as effective platforms for introducing Stephanie’s services to potential new clients in a relaxed setting.

Creating Memorable Experiences

Stephanie emphasizes the importance of creating a sense of camaraderie and empowerment among participants during these events. The atmosphere is designed to be supportive and celebratory, making clients feel comfortable and confident.

"Everybody just was cheering each other on... everyone was glowing. It was so much fun."
— Stephanie Bordas [21:05]

This approach fosters strong, positive associations with her brand, encouraging clients to return for future sessions and refer others.

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Achieving a High Booking Rate

Stephanie boasts an impressive booking rate of approximately 90%, a testament to her effective marketing and exceptional client relations.

Personalized Communication

A key factor in her high booking rate is the personalized approach she takes in her communication. Stephanie handles most client inquiries herself, believing that personal engagement significantly enhances the likelihood of booking.

"I think connecting with my clients makes a big difference."
— Stephanie Bordas [35:05]

When she temporarily delegated this task to an assistant, she noticed a substantial drop in her booking rate, reinforcing the value of her direct involvement.

Optimized Booking Process

Stephanie employs a straightforward booking system that minimizes friction. She offers package-based pricing with a 50% deposit required upfront and the remaining 50% due on the day of the shoot. This method ensures commitment from clients while providing flexibility.

"They pay 50% upfront... and then, you know, I require the second 50% on the day of the shoot."
— Stephanie Bordas [29:34]

This transparent pricing strategy, combined with comprehensive prep guides and open communication, helps clients feel informed and valued from the outset.

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Building and Maintaining Client Relationships

Stephanie places immense value on fostering long-term relationships with her clients, many of whom transition from boudoir to maternity photography as their needs evolve.

Continuous Engagement

Through regular follow-ups and personalized interactions, Stephanie ensures that her clients feel connected and appreciated beyond their initial shoot.

"I try to stay in touch with them... they become your client for life."
— Stephanie Bordas [13:33]

This ongoing engagement not only encourages repeat business but also enhances word-of-mouth referrals, contributing to her sustained high booking rate.

Client-Centric Approach

Stephanie avoids rigid genre categorization, positioning herself simply as a "photographer" to remain versatile and accessible to clients’ varying needs.

"I'm here for you... I'm here for you if you need me."
— Stephanie Bordas [14:42]

By focusing on the client's experience and individual needs, she creates a welcoming environment that encourages clients to return for different types of shoots.

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Efficient Business Operations and Studio Setup

Stephanie's studio in Brooklyn is a reflection of her minimalist and client-focused philosophy. The space is designed to be both functional and inviting, with ample natural light and simple, elegant decor that keeps the focus on the client.

"We keep it very simple... polished concrete floors, floor-to-ceiling windows."
— Stephanie Bordas [48:12]

Streamlined Workflow

Her session structure is efficient yet flexible, typically comprising three looks over three hours, allowing for creativity without overwhelming the client.

"We do three looks over the course of the shoot... the whole experience takes about three hours."
— Stephanie Bordas [33:34]

This balance ensures that clients remain comfortable and engaged throughout the session, enhancing the overall quality of the photographs.

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Marketing, SEO, and Online Presence

SEO is a critical component of Stephanie’s marketing strategy. By naming her business Brooklyn Boudoir, she optimizes her online presence to appear prominently in relevant search results.

"With a name like Brooklyn Boudoir, you've got a place and a genre in one."
— Stephanie Bordas [17:44]

In addition to SEO, Stephanie leverages social media platforms like Instagram to showcase her work and engage with a broader audience, though she notes the increasing restrictions within the boudoir niche.

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Balancing Business and Personal Life

Stephanie candidly discusses the challenges of balancing her flourishing business with her responsibilities as a mother. She emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and scheduling effectively to maintain this balance.

"I have to pick up work sometimes after hours... but I still get to be a mom and be a photography studio owner."
— Stephanie Bordas [07:13]

This balance is essential not only for her personal well-being but also for sustaining the energy and passion required to run a successful business.

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Key Takeaways for Photographers

1. Personalized Communication: Direct and authentic interactions with clients can significantly enhance booking rates and client satisfaction.

2. Strategic Partnerships: Collaborating with complementary businesses can expand your client base and create mutually beneficial opportunities.

3. Client-Centric Approach: Focusing on the client’s experience and maintaining long-term relationships fosters loyalty and encourages referrals.

4. Efficient Operations: A well-organized studio and streamlined workflow contribute to a positive client experience and higher productivity.

5. Effective Marketing: Optimizing online presence through SEO and leveraging social media are crucial for visibility and attracting clients.

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Notable Quotes

• "We keep it very simple... polished concrete floors, floor-to-ceiling windows."
  — Stephanie Bordas [48:12]

• "I try to stay in touch with them... they become your client for life."
  — Stephanie Bordas [13:33]

• "I think connecting with my clients makes a big difference."
  — Stephanie Bordas [35:05]

• "People will remember the feeling that they have from an experience, sometimes more than the experience itself."
  — Stephanie Bordas [54:07]

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Conclusion

Stephanie Bordas’ approach to photography and business management exemplifies how personalized marketing, strategic partnerships, and a client-first mentality can drive exceptional success. Her high booking rate and sustained business growth serve as a compelling model for photographers aspiring to elevate their own practices. By emphasizing authentic connections and efficient operations, Stephanie has cultivated a thriving and fulfilling photography career.

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For more insights and strategies on building a successful photography business, visit Sue Bryce Education or explore additional episodes of The Portrait System Podcast.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up Today. You're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[B]

But I think what I put out there is like we're going to become fast friends and we're going to connect and you're not even going to feel like you're in your lingerie. It's just going to be like two girlfriends hanging out, which is what it feels like. It's not like sexy or sexual at all. It's just kind of, it's just fun when they come in.

[A]

Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started this week on the Portrait System. My guest is Stephanie Bordess. Stephanie is a photographer in Brooklyn, New York and she focuses on maternity and boudoir. One of the ways that Stephanie gets a lot of her clients is with business to business marketing and we get pretty in depth into how she makes that work. Another thing Stephanie shared is she has an insanely high booking rate. She talks all about why she believes that is and she shares some of the things she does to to keep client relationships strong so they keep coming back for future photo shoots. I absolutely loved chatting with Stephanie and I'm so happy to introduce her to you. Here she is, Stephanie Bordas. Hi, Stephanie. Welcome to the portrait system. How are you?

[B]

I'm great, thanks, Nikki. How are you?

[A]

I'm good, I'm good. Summer's almost over and we're having a real rainy day. And so it's a little depressing, but, you know, I feel that. Okay, where are you recording from?

[B]

So I am in Brooklyn, New York. I am born and bred here and right now I'm in my studio in Bushwick, which is a really cool area of Brooklyn. Very artist hip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Centered.

[A]

I hear a lot of people saying things like, you know, to be a photographer in real populated cities, you know, like Seattle, where I was, or New York, you know, New York City or Los Angeles, or that it's harder and, you know, just a lot more competition. Do you find that to be the case? Well, I guess if you've always been in Brooklyn, you might not know what it's like to be in a small town or whatever. But, you know, do you have thoughts on that?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think about that a lot, actually. I know people who are in smaller markets. Sometimes I feel struggle because they think they don't have as much, you know, as many customers or as far a reach. I do think it's a challenge when you're in a bigger city because there's just so many more photographers. But I don't feel competition because everybody's so different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think if you're just being true to yourself, I mean, you can Google Brooklyn boudoir photographers, and there's so many different styles out there. And I just feel confident that, you know, what I put out on my website will attract the right clients for me. And if someone's not the right client for me, I have no problem recommending them to somebody else. And so, you know, there's more opportunity, I think, for your client to find you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's also more opportunity for other people to find somebody else, and I think that's okay.

[A]

Well, so I know you do boudoir, but you also do a lot of maternity too, right?

[B]

I do. I've been in business long enough now where a lot of my clients who started with me doing boudoir shoots are now at a different phase of their life. And like, yeah, I had a lot of brides who now are getting pregnant for the first time and want to memorialize that. And I love doing maternity. I mean, it's such boudoir's fabulous. I love celebrating women and the female form and maternity and pregnancy photo shoots. I mean, what's more beautiful in the female form than a baby bump like that? So, yeah, I love maternity as well.

[A]

I was really drawn to your maternity work. I mean, of course, I. You know, I love your boudoir work as well. So, you know, I was really drawn to it when I first saw it. I was like, oh, it's just. I don't know, there's something refreshing about it and just really, like, natural and raw and just really beautiful.

[B]

Thank you. That means a lot to me to say, you know, I always. My style, I think, has always been pretty minimalistic in whatever genre I'm working in, and I like that. I feel like it's always about the woman in front of the lens rather than a costume or a set. I like to keep things minimal, pared back, and really focus on the person who's in front of me. And a lot of times my photography isn't perfect. I don't set up a lot of lights. I do mostly natural light. I definitely am moving around a lot and trying to help my clients feel comfortable, but I think that all really comes through. So you saying raw really resonates with me because sometimes I'm like, well, this photo is not in focus. Yeah, but it shows something. I've had that happen, or it's like a real moment. And I think that's still worth showing, and I think people still want that.

[A]

Well, in. In saying, you know, that you tend to keep things simplistic and not build sets and things. That's just another, you know, kind of backing of what you said before, that there are different photographers for different people. And some people are so, you know, some clients are really drawn to these elaborate, beautiful, you know, big sets. And some people are drawn to the minimalist, you know, like what you do. So I just. I think it's really awesome that there are so many different photographers doing different. Different things. And some are gonna resonate. Things are, you know, and I. And I think that this also lends to reminding yourself that you can do what you love to do. And whether that is, like, bright and bold or, you know, just, like, black and white and more minimal, whatever. Like, you get to decide that based on what you want and. And you're gonna attract those people.

[B]

Exactly. And I completely agree with you. I think that's what's so special about being an entrepreneur, is you get to do it your way. You don't have to do what everybody else is doing. And I think when you do and when I say do it your way, it's both your Style, but also just how you run your business and how you live your life. I mean, right now I work in my studio, I'm a mom, and so I'm able to have my photography clients and then go pick up my kids from school and. And that means I have to pick up work sometimes after hours after they go to bed. But I still get to be a mom and be a photography studio owner and balance life in a way that maybe with a different career wouldn't have been so possible.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I can relate to that. I often think about. I feel like I have so much to ask you right now. I often feel like that too. Where if I was still a school social worker, I don't know when I would see my kids during the week. I mean, it would be like rushing to get out. Get out the door in the morning and trying to get home through rush hour traffic and, you know, and then by the time you get home, you eat dinner and it's bedtime and when is it? Yeah. So I can agree. Exactly.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

No, I gets my heart when you say that.

[B]

Yeah. No, I like you. I also. This was not my first career. I had a career being a TV and film producer, which I loved.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, it was a good career. I really enjoyed it. But once I had kids, it was just too hard. All the things that I loved about it became really impractical. You know, you'd work really long hours, you'd get to travel to places, you know, you'd get a call saying, hey, can you go to Argentina tomorrow? And in my 20s, film a movie or something.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sorry, I was just saying to like, film a movie or like.

[B]

A TV show or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was super fun. I had lots of adventures. But then when I had a baby, it was like, I don't want to do that anymore. I want to be present. And my husband's also in the film business. And so to have two parents who could be working 16 hours a day or not at all.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Was just really complicated. And so this definitely see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Lifestyle a lot better.

[A]

Was it a pretty seamless transition or did you. I mean, how did you kind of make that?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I. It was not a seamless transition. I am one of those people who feels they can do it all and look at me doing everything. And because producing was always on a freelance basis, it did feel like I could balance both careers at the same time. And I did for a long time. But then as Boudoir became, you know, in my heart of hearts, I always wanted to be a photographer. I loved being a film producer. But this is really where my heart was. I just didn't know how to be a photographer without shooting weddings or shooting newborns, which I knew myself well enough to say wasn't my jam. And so when I found boudoir photography, it was like, this is it. And I found a mentor and I studied up and I just taught myself how to do it. And then what I would do is plan my boudoir shoots for the weekends. I would shoot in hotels. So I'd get a hotel for a full weekend and then kind of stack as many shoots as I could, leaving my weekdays open for producing jobs.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But then as boudoir got more busy, you know, I started putting myself in some really precarious positions. I remember one time I was at a hotel, I was producing a job. I had a newborn at the time and so my client was in hair and makeup. I excused myself to go to the bathroom. I was pumping. I was on a conference call for this commercial I think that I was working on. It was just a disaster. Nobody was getting the best of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Including me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like my client. I wasn't serving my client well. I wasn't producing the job. The best I could do. It was just too much. And, you know, I made a good living being a producer. But I remember after that experience also getting my paycheck from the producing job and just thinking like, it doesn't even matter what's in there. It just, it could be a million dollars in that envelope. And it just wasn't worth the stress and the heartache. And so I realized this business will never become anything bigger than it already is if I continue to treat it like a part time job. And so, you know, I just said, I'm going to put it aside. I'm going to put producing aside for six months, see what happens. And I honestly never looked back. I mean, you know, people in production know that I'm not doing it anymore. Mostly every so often I get a call here and there and I never say I'm out of it 100%, but I'm out of it 100%.

[A]

Yeah, it feels great.

[B]

I never felt sorry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that career kind of suited me for my 20s and 30s, and this is my late 30s, 40s and onwards.

[A]

It's like, it's so hard sometimes because, you know, when you do have a full time job and you know, whether or not you have kids, I mean it makes it a little trickier when you do have kids. But it is hard to start a business. It does take, I shouldn't say hard. Yes, it can be hard and yes, it can be fun. And yes, there are times when things go really smoothly and there are times when it's just a really shitty day and you get nothing done. But I think something that's really important that you just said is that if you don't give yourself time to be a business owner, you're not going to be a business owner. You know, it doesn't just magically happen. So if you do have a full time job or you're a full time stay at home parent or something like that, you've got to find a way to schedule in time for the business.

[B]

That'S so important and something people really don't take into account. You think, oh, I have a newborn at home, I'll so be able to do all my emails while they're napping. And of course that doesn't happen. I mean, it's impossible. And you're not being fair to yourself if you're doing that either.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But then of course it gets trickier because there is that balance. You've got to have those boundaries. Like you were saying when you're taking calls and pumping while your client's out there. Like, I can remember this feeling. And yeah, that doesn't help anybody either. But it is possible. And I'm doing it, you're doing it. Lots of people out there have been able to do it. It's just paying attention to what it is that you want to do and having a plan. Well, okay, I didn't really have much of a plan. I had a little bit of a plan, but not a super solid plan. And having those boundaries.

[B]

Exactly. I mean, I think when you're building your business, it's great to have that safety net. I was really grateful that I could. And honestly, you know, when Covid happened also and photo shoots had to shut down, yeah, I was able to. You know, my husband and I were both in the film business previously, but neither one of us was able to shoot. But I was able to pick up some producing work virtually here and there, which saved our household. I mean, we were a zero income household otherwise.

[A]

So yeah, there is a lot of.

[B]

Benefit to having that safety net. But I think you also have to be honest with yourself and I think you just know it in your heart when it's time to cut it. Cut that cord.

[A]

Yep, for sure. Okay, so one thing you talked about was how a lot of your past boudoir clients are now turning into maternity clients. Are you keeping in touch with them? Are they just remembering, like, hey, I love these photos from Stephanie and I'm going to call her again. Like, how, how does that work?

[B]

Yeah, I really pride myself on my relationships with my clients. I think in general I attract, like we were saying earlier, I attract people who are like minded women and I do a lot of work to connect with them and I do try to stay in touch with them. I have a really kind of high touch business and I always try to plant the seed. I mean, everyone always has such a great time and I always say like, oh, you'll come back when you're, you know, when you're pregnant. I have in my studio, up on the wall, wall art of maternity photographs and they say, oh, maybe I'll come back. It's like, yeah, come back. And I keep it in mind. And I think once people have a good experience with you, they become whatever your genre, I think they become your client for life. And so I won't say, oh, I'm your boudoir photographer, I'll just say I'm your photographer, you know, I'm here for you.

[A]

It's so smart to do it that way. And important too. I feel like it's almost you're pre selling a maternity shoot even though they're not even pregnant. But like you said, planting that seed and then also, you know, making sure that your client. Well, of course client relationships, but I talk about that all the time. So you guys, everyone's probably sick of hearing me like connection, connection, relationship. It is important. Yes, but also I often hear people saying, should I keep things genres separate on my Instagram? But like when I was scrolling through yours, I was like, this maternity really jumped out at me. And how would I even know that you did maternity if you didn't post it? And so I don't know. I think there's definitely some importance of showing the clients everything that you do so that they know.

[B]

Yeah, I think so too. I think regardless, you know, I always felt like you don't have to try that hard to form your style. Your style is you, your I. Everything you do is going to be your style because it's who you are. And I think there's things other than genre that will keep connect, you know, it's a thread that connects all of your work, whatever you're taking photos of.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. Whether it's via email or social media, I'm a Big email marketing fan. Letting people know that you do other genres is so important. Keep in touch. You know, especially if you're a newborn photographer and you want to venture into, you know, toddlers and families and I mean, you've got like, those clients are already there. They already know, like, and trust you, so. Absolutely. I just wanted to touch on that a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I mean, with photography also, when you have a connection with somebody, you know, I always feel like two photographers can be in the exact same spot with the exact same camera and all the same settings and everything, but the photograph will be different. Because a photograph, especially a portrait. Right. Is about the connection between the photographer and the client. And when you connect with someone, that's it, they're yours. Like, they will come back to you. And even if they think maybe, you know, sometimes clients will say, oh, well, will you take my personal branding portraits? And that's not my love language. But I'm always happy to help my clients. And so I'll say, yeah, like, here's the caveat. I'm not going to be able to do this full lifestyle. You know, I don't have all the sets and all the things, but let's go for it. Right? And already you're setting yourself up for success when you have that kind of relationship with your clients.

[A]

Totally. I love it. Now, being that you're in Brooklyn where it's highly populated and lots of photographers, so obviously return clients is a way that you get clients. But what are some other ways that you're marketing to stand out, you know, amongst all of it?

[B]

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, luckily I've never had to pay for marketing. I've always been busy enough, really, through referrals and repeat clients. Really my number one way, my SEO was obviously strong. With a name like Brooklyn Boudoir, you've got a place and a genre in one.

[A]

Well, and that was what one thing I. When, you know, at the beginning I was thinking I. I wanted to come back to too, was obviously that was strategic that you named it Brooklyn Boudoir. Because I would think SEO, you're like, @ the top. I mean, how would you know?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I love the alliteration of it, but also it was all about the SEO, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, Instagram does bring me clients, although it's getting a lot more restrictive, especially in the boudoir genre. So I'm kind of stepping back. I have the email list, so, you know, I kind of do a little of This, a little of that. But something that's been really successful for me recently in the past few years is I've begun co marketing with a lingerie boutique that's in Manhattan.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

And so she and I. Yeah, it's taken a lot of different forms. It started when I actually had a lingerie blogger come see me for a boudoir shoot. And she said, oh, I want you to meet this woman. You know, it's a string of connections. And I went there to shop for myself and had an amazing experience. And I'm not like a lingerie really type of girl, despite being in the boudoir industry.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, but similar to me, I mean, they had a really high touch connection kind of based business. I was never feeling like I was being sold to. They really wanted to get to know me. It was a really fun, empowering time, time. And so the owner and I started talking about how we could work together and kind of build both of our businesses. And so it started just with straight referrals. I would. Very easy for me to refer my clients to her, say, oh, you want to get some new lingerie for your shoot? Shop at Sugar Cookies. They're amazing. They'll take good care of you. Is that.

[A]

That's the name of it is Sugar.

[B]

That's the name of the. That's the name of the lingerie boutique. Yeah, yeah. On her end, she's always really good about planting the seed to say, oh, have you done a boudoir shoot yet? You know, while her clients are there, kind of a natural conversation. Oh, you should call Stephanie. She's fantastic. So already we were having a very simple referral system back and forth. Then we started talking about doing some events together. She's got this great little space, very different from MySpace. But we said, why don't we do some kind of free event where either one of our clients could just show up, shop for lingerie, and then I'd be there, we'd schmooze together, and then I would snap some photos. And at these events, everyone would get one complimentary photo from me, but then they could also buy more.

[A]

So you were taking individual photos?

[B]

Not like, yeah, everyone to buy lingerie. I would take a photo of them. And it wasn't even about selling the photos at that event, really. It was about making the connection with the clients, meeting new people. My clients would come, they've already had their photo taken by me, but it was a new setting for them. We got to kind of continue that, you know, that eye to eye, those Hugs that connection together. And her clients would get to meet me. Maybe they were on the fence about doing a boudoir shoot. Maybe they didn't really know where to start. Maybe they had no idea that even existed. But they got to meet me, see that I'm not scary, have one beautiful photo of themselves that was a little teaser. And then they'd come and book for a full session at the studio.

[A]

This is really cool. I like. I mean, it's. It's business to business marketing. It's just. I feel like it's a little bit more elevated because you are really doing that hands on. I like too, that your previous clients are invited because then they get to. I mean, they're like walking testimonials for you in there. Like, oh, I've totally done it and whatever. And yeah, it's really great.

[B]

Sure. I mean, when we first started, we kind of thought, like, is this gonna work? Are people gonna feel comfortable? You know, it was semi private, but not totally private. So would women feel uncomfortable being in their lingerie, having their photo taken? But what we found was that there was a really big sense of camaraderie. Everybody just was cheering each other on, all sorts of different kinds of women and really just supporting each other and lifting each other up. And everybody was glowing. I mean, it was so much fun. And so now we're starting to elevate it, you know, step it up a notch even more. So this past summer, we did an event here in New York, which wasn't free. It was. The clients paid to come and they got extra value. So the price was similar to what it would be to have a full shoot with me at the studio. But we did it at a hotel room which had a beautiful view of the New York City skyline. Included with their package was private lingerie shopping at the boutique. We all went out to dinner together. We saw a burlesque show. So we kind of really continued. It was so much fun. So much fun. And really continued. Yes. It's about having these beautiful photos of yourself, but really about letting these women have some me time, have an excuse to celebrate themselves. We celebrated each other and yeah, of course, get some beautiful photos while they were at it. And it was something different. Right. If they came to me at the studio, they'd have my studio, which is beautiful setting, but minimal. Here we had the New York City skyline in the background. Really special people came in from out of town for it. Like, you know, we had some tourists, we had some locals, and we just had a blast.

[A]

That's awesome. And then I feel like it is people tagging and sharing the girls night out or whatever. You know, I feel like it's a more widespread type situation.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Definitely a lot of excitement around it. And really I think there's infinite possibilities with what you could do. I mean, New York definitely has a lot of drawings, but why not also open it up to other cities around the world? I mean, we did it this summer in New York and a lot of people who I think would have joined reached out and they were like, oh, I'm out of town that weekend. And it's like, well, there, there's going to be others. You know, maybe we'll do one that focuses on swimwear and do it in a tropical location or maybe we'll go to Europe. I mean, we have the next couple of years kind of generally mapped out of how we want to do it, but different location, kind of a different theme, but always focusing on celebrating the woman in front of the lens and camaraderie, I think amongst ourselves.

[A]

And if for people listening, if you don't shoot boudoir, this could be applied to all different genres. Like I used to do business to business marketing with a sales coach and a lot of this went back to the women that I met in my networking groups and they would refer their clients to me and vice versa. So a sales coach, a. A clothing stylist. She was a big one. Yeah. And we would refer each other back and forth and just having, I mean, like minded people that you feel trustworthy to send your clients to, I mean that's, that's huge. You don't want to refer someone or you know, do business, business marketing with someone that you don't feel is going to treat your clients well. You know, obviously that goes without saying, but. And you also are going to spend some time with that person. Of course you're going to do events together and planning. So you have to make sure that it's feels right and it's a good match. But like, if I were to relate it to personal branding and thinking about what you just said, my wheels are spinning. Like you could do some sort of event night out that wasn't, you know, obviously not boudoir related, but you get like a beautiful one. I hate to use the word headshot, but sort of. And then you could have like someone who helps with copywriting or whatever. You know, I don't know, I'm just trying to think of.

[B]

There's so many options. I can agree. Stylists, med spas, you Know, fitness studios, maybe brow bars. I think there's so many different ways it could look, and I think you're absolutely right. I mean, collaborations are always best when both parties feel that they're gaining. Right. You want it to be greater than the sum of its parts, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like you say, maybe it seems obvious, but you do want to find a partner that you support their business. You could recommend people to them without having to give any kind of qualification, like, oh, you're going to love it, but maybe it's a little pricey for you. No, you want to have a confident, wholehearted recommendation for that place and, you know, also want you. You do wanna take into account the price point, the style, does it fit your style? But ultimately, I think you look to your point, you find a partner that you really enjoy working with, that you feel comfortable with. And then if you make no money during whatever event, like, maybe it's a total flop, but at least you've had fun, right?

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Feeling angry about it. I mean, it's funny. There's a. There's a lingerie sh to my studio right around the corner. When I first moved to this space, I thought, like, yeah, perfect, I'm gonna talk to them and we can be partners. And as soon as I walked in, I just knew it wasn't for me. Like, there's nothing wrong with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This wasn't my vibe. I didn't feel comfortable and I didn't feel like my clients would really, you know, it wasn't the same vibe. And so when I found Suzanne, who's the owner of Sugar Cookies, and we started partnering together, it just felt easy and frictionless, and I think that's what you really have to go for.

[A]

Totally. Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. Now on the portrait system on the. In the membership. Sue did this whole video, this whole, like, series on business to business marketing and connections and champagne parties, which almost sounds a little bit like you've taken it to more of an experience and a paid experience, like a night out, which is amazing. But there is. So if people are, like, looking for more information on business to business building, not just for boudoir, like sue talks about in general, there are videos of that on the portrait system for people who are like, ah, how you know, I need more about it.

[B]

Champagne parties. What a fun idea. You know, what a fun idea. We called it. The first one that we did, we called Bubbles and boudoir.

[A]

Oh, nice. Perfect. Yeah, Very cool. Okay, let's talk a little bit more about, you know, you said you tend to keep things simple and you don't have, like big setups or whatever. How are you prepping your clients for all this? Like, are they bringing their own clothes? Is it coming from sugar cookies? Like, you know, how is all of this working?

[B]

So we do not. Well, I'll start from the beginning. Okay. I do most of my client reach through emails, and so someone will reach out to me via email at first. And I think once they find me, they do have a pretty good sense that they're ready to book. I give them all the information that they're going to need to know. And I have a pretty good book. I want to say I have like a 90% booking rate. Like, I put out some dates. Yeah. Really seamless, frictionless. And I try to put it all out there. So then they'll pay. I do packages as opposed to a la carte. I require 50% payment to book. And then once they're booked, I'll send them a prep guide advising them what to wear.

[A]

Can we talk a little bit about that? About the 50%? Because I think back to when I was shooting only weddings or mostly weddings, and I loved getting half of the money at the moment and then half of the money after I shot the wedding or like, you know, a week before. No, it was a week before I shot the wedding or two weeks or whatever. And it was nice because that income was split up. So I really, I really like the idea of taking half of the payment first. Now, do you have like a session fee? Are they paying for half of the package first or like, what does that look like?

[B]

It's half of the package first. I don't do a session fee. I have, you know, similar to what sue recommends. I have a large, medium and small package. Most of my clients go with the medium, very few go with the small. And there's always upgrades that they can do, you know, once we get to the photo session and the reveal. But I like doing the packages as opposed to the session fee because I don't want to sell, really. I mean, I feel like I do all my selling as far as this is my business and here's what you're going to get. And I let everyone feel amazing. I give them all of the information. But when I'm sitting down at that photo reveal and ordering session, I don't want to be like, well, now here's, you know, you paid $200 to get in the door. Like, I never want it to feel like a bait and switch. Yeah, it's just not in my DNA. And I also kind of feel like money that's spent is money that's forgotten. Not totally, but it's a lot easier, I think, when they're sitting at that ordering session for them to upgrade a thousand dollars versus paying four thousand dollars like in one month.

[A]

So you're showing them the packages and they're saying, you know, through email mostly. You said through email, right?

[B]

All through email.

[A]

Okay, all through email. And then they're deciding on a package before their shoot. They're paying you for half of it. They're coming to their shoot, they're doing the shoot now they just have to pay that extra half. Unless they want to upgrade, then they're paying more than half.

[B]

Exactly. And I require the second 50% on the day of the shoot. So essentially, once they've had their shoot and I know I skipped over the part about the wardrobe. Oh, yeah, sorry.

[A]

No, I interrupted you. So if you want to. Yeah, you can come back to that for sure.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll come back to it. So. So once they book their shoot, I send them a very comprehensive prep guide with everything they're going to need to know. I address what they want to wear or my suggestions as to what they want to wear. I will recommend that they shop at Sugar Cookies if they want to get something new.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

I talk about anything that we might talk over the phone. Concerns? Oh, no, I have a zit. Tan lines. I talk about very, you know, some confidence building tips in that prep guide. Really comprehensive. Once they're booked, I do also offer a phone call if they want to meet with me, either voice to voice or face to face on Zoom. I'm open to talking about it. I just don't want to have to do any selling kind of you know, meet me first before you book. So, yeah, so they pay 50% up front. They pay 50% on the day of their shoot. And then, you know, it includes hair and makeup. In terms of wardrobe, I do have things here at the studio, but it's very minimal. And usually it's stuff that I'll use for maternity, like the flowy fabrics or the body conscious dress. For the most part, everyone's bringing their own lingerie or not or, you know, lingerie or whatever wardrobe. So they show up on the day of their shoot. We already feel like we know each other. You know, in the prep, I send them a questionnaire to kind of get to know them better. I do ask them to send me a Pinterest board or some photo references of images that speak to them so we can be on the same page visually. I think, especially when it comes to a genre like boudoir, you want to be very clear with the expectation what you will and won't do. I mean, not safe for work means very different things to different people. So I want to make sure we have a visual and verbal communication about that. And by the time all that, you know, everyone often will just fill out all the paperwork right away. And so it's months or weeks before their shoot. They're telling me about them as a person, why they want to do the shoot, what they imagine their fantasy shoot to look like. You know, I try to get into some. Some questions also. Things like what's their favorite music? But then when they get here, I've reviewed everything. Right. You know, they haven't seen that stuff for weeks. And I've reviewed it really freshly. And so it feels like this instant connection, like, oh, how does she know my favorite songs are playing? Oh, my favorite drink is here. I ask them about their insecurities. We talk about it on the day while we're here, but already we have a really strong connection.

[A]

Yeah, so that's great.

[B]

They'll bring their wardrobe, we look through it together. I'll plan. You know, we do three looks over the course of the shoot. Maybe we'll do four if we feel we're doing great on time. But mostly it's three looks. And the whole experience takes about three hours. You know, it's an hour and a half for hair and makeup, and then an hour and a half of shooting time. And beyond that, everybody just gets tired, and you start seeing the tired eyes. People sometimes are like, I want to do six outfits. It's like, no, you don't. Yeah, you know, you do something you do six outfits at a time.

[A]

But I'm doing, you know, 10 minutes per outfit.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's so different with personal branding. I don't know. It's. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, this is great. I mean, it just sounds like your clients are feeling cared for, and, you know, you're making it just fun and low pressure, and I bet you people appreciate that. Now, something that you had said before, I want to come back to where you said you have, like, a 90% booking rate. Is that anyone who inquires you're booking that many people, or is that just once you've, like, connected with them and, you know, like. Because that's a really high.

[B]

It's a high booking rate. I know. And it's interesting. I, last year hired an assistant. Okay, this is an interesting tidbit to share. I hired an assistant. I went away on vacation. And she started sending out this initial email that I would send every inquiry. And even though the verbiage was nearly exactly the same, she made some tweaks to put it in her voice. My booking rate dropped dramatically in that period of time.

[A]

Because it wasn't you?

[B]

Because I think. Because it wasn't me. Yeah. And, you know, so we noticed it. We said, okay, that's really interesting. I've never had that low of a response rate. So let's go back to. To me doing it again, same email. I mean, frankly, she could be sending them out. But, you know, I. I do like connecting with my clients. I think it makes a big difference. I think they do want to see me as much as possible.

[A]

So if you go to theportraitsystem.com podcast, there is. If you just scroll down, there's a little. It's called like, a speak pipe thing. It's an orange button. You click it and then you have. I think it's 90 seconds to record why you should be a guest on the. You know, what you could offer to the listeners and just a little bit about your story. I listen to those, and I am much more likely to want someone to be a guest from that. Or if they just individually email us as opposed to. Hi, I'm Karen's assistant, and this is. She's been on Good Morning America. Da, da, da, da. And this is why she'd be a good. And I'm like, yeah, huh? Like, it just doesn't. I don't love it. And not to say that I won't take, you know, guest whose assistant or, you know, their PR person or whatever reaches out to us Cause we do sometimes there's something about when you reach out to me personally or reach out to our team personally or do the speak pipe that I'm like, I don't know, it's just different. So I wonder if that. I don't know what it is because I know people don't have time and I know you're really busy and it's great to have an assistant. But just think about that personal touch.

[B]

I think so too. And I think you just have to think about what is your. It's not for everybody, I guess, you know, some people, it's the same way. Some people are phone people, some people are text people. I mean, I think everybody connects differently. But I think for my style of business, I mean, maybe if you're a really high end luxury person and you have a team, maybe then your clients are going to expect that it's not going to be you, that it's going to be.

[A]

Right, right. Yep, yep. That's true.

[B]

But I think. Yeah, but I think what I put out there is like we're going to become fast friends and we're going to connect and you're not even going to feel like you're in your lingerie. It's just going to be like two girlfriends hanging out, which is what it feels like. It's not like sexy or sexual at all. It's just kind of. It's just fun when they come in. And I think maybe it's that approach that what I put out there that you get back now.

[A]

I think that because I have a high booking rate as well, but I think so much of what I shoot comes from referrals and I think someone is more likely to book me through referrals. And I do a lot via email as well. A lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, some. There is something to be said about phone and in person and sue has like scripts for that and all that and that works really great too. But I don't know, I'm just such an email person because that's how I am as a consumer.

[B]

So that's how I feel also, Nikki, I feel exactly the same way. I don't want to be sold to. I don't want to sit on a phone call at the end. They're going to say like, you know, sign these papers or whatever it is. Yeah, as a consumer, I'd rather make my own choice in the privacy of my own home rather than have to like say yes or no in the moment to somebody.

[A]

Well, I think that's the thing.

[B]

You're your client and your client is you. And I think you really have to, you know, respect that and go with it. I mean, if you're being authentic to yourself, it's not going to be wrong for your business.

[A]

Yeah, well. And I mean, I know, like, the idea of getting people on the phone or in person into your studio is because that gives you that extra layer of connection with them and, you know, you're getting to know them and whatever. Like, there are ways to do that without being like snake oil salesy. Like, lots of people are very, very good at it. Yeah, I just am like, back to efficiency, which I know I talk about a lot on the podcast, is I am just an efficient person. And sometimes I feel like sitting down to email when I can't sleep at night or whatever and I can't do the do. I don't know. I just.

[B]

Absolutely. It's.

[A]

For me, it's about efficiency.

[B]

I'm the same way. I'm the same way. It's mom life, right? Like, yeah, this is, this is what it is. And listen, I'm not totally against it. Sometimes people will say, I will not feel comfortable booking unless we meet in person. And yeah, I'll honor that. You know, I'm not gonna say, well, nope, then you're not my client. No, of course. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I will say, though, the only consumer that I am the type when I need to get someone on the phone is when I'm buying new technical equipment. Like, I need to speak to someone to be like, give me step A, B, C and D. I'm like, super old school when it comes to that. So that I will say that is the, the only time that I'm like, you have phone customer service? Or like, if I'm rescheduling a flight and I can't find what I want, there is time and a place. I don't mean to be like, absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. So anyways, but having that high booking rate, like, what. What do you think is like your. I hate to. I hate this term, but like secret sauce that gets people to actually book.

[B]

I mean, I think first and foremost, you know, my website is simple, but I think very clear. And I try to put everything out there. You know, I'll say this is who I think my client is and who it is not. This is what I'm going to do. I. I lay the whole experience out. So I think when people are, you know, their first, when they're looking for a photo shoot, everyone Googles right off the bat. And so I Do feel if they find me and they connect to my website, they're already pretty sure that they want a book, as long as they don't seem like a creepster or something like that when we're, when we're emailing. I also think standing out from the crowd is really important. This idea of being yourself and not having to do what everybody else does. Like we were saying at the beginning of the, of the conversation, you know, there's lots of different photographers here and everybody does something different. And I'm so glad for that. And I do have clients saying, nobody else does this kind of minimalistic black and white look that you do. Great. Here we are, you know.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So I do think it's. It's putting your own voice into your website. I think when you send that initial email, you want to be similarly clear and lay everything out. And then you have that call to action at the end of the email. This is when I'm available, you know, let me know what works for you and we'll get you booked. And if they're, you know, I always also try to have a solution. If it's something like, well, I need photos in two weeks. It's like, well, that's not going to be possible. But right, here's what might be possible, you know, or maybe if your gifting date could be flexible. I always try to include a personal touch to the email. Usually they'll say something like, oh, I'm getting married. So you have to say, well, congratulations on your wedding. Like, put your own voice in it. Know that you're talking to people. You're not a robot, they're not a robot. And I think people really appreciate that.

[A]

And this is the, this is the, the okay, CRMs. Some people rock them, and they are like, I could not live without them. And they're people, like, I just have never been able to really. I do have email templates, and I use templates like crazy, but I am personalizing every single email that I send out. And I know, okay, this so goes against my, like, efficiency. I'm so efficient, you would think that I'd be using a CRM, but there's something about personalizing, you know, about making it all about them that I always want to make sure I'm doing. And I have always, always done. I think it helps. I definitely think it helps.

[B]

It makes a big difference. Yeah. And I think, look, maybe that's not for everybody. I do have a CRM, but I'm specific with what I use it for, you know, My contracts and things like that go out.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My initial email, yes, it's a template, but I always add something personal. I always check in at various points even though it's all over email. A quick note. Hey, checking in your shoots three weeks away. I'm here if you have any questions for me. Just small things like that people will appreciate. You know, before we didn't even talk about this, but the reason that I chose boudoir. Well, I won't say the reason that I chose boudoir, but before I knew what type of photography I wanted to get into, a friend of mine had a boudoir shoot and I'd never heard of this before. And I thought, oh, this is fun. Like I'm going to go have a shoot of my own.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And did no research on the photographer. Big mistake. And you know, not to, not to smack talk anybody, but the experience was just lacking in a lot of ways. I could completely understand why a woman would seek out boudoir photography and what was special about it. But I wasn't even sure if the photographer knew I was coming in that day. You know, it wasn't my style, which is not her fault. Like it was her style. I didn't do the research. That was my fault. But she didn't understand why I didn't want to put on a feather boa. I didn't understand why she thought I would. A lot of misconnections. And so I left that experience thinking like, this is a really cool genre and I can definitely see myself doing it, but in a more personal. Personal way? Yeah, in a cooler, more modern, more client centered way. I kind of felt like I was going through this factory. Like if I didn't fit into that then.

[A]

And no one wants to feel like that.

[B]

No one wants to feel like that. No, exactly. And so I always make sure everyone knows, you know, I know you're coming in. I'm here for you if you need me. Or not. We also don't have to talk. I'm not going to force you to do that either.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then the nice thing about doing the packages is they've already kind of decided on that. And so when they're here at the ordering session, I can really just help them decide. And I don't feel bad if they don't buy up. I don't feel resentful. I really do feel like I'm helping them and we can still have fun. Like the pressure is sort of off. And if they want to buy up, buy more photos, buy a bigger Album buy, wall art. Fantastic. I'm here to help with that too. But I never feel resentful if I don't get, like, a big sale, because that part's already accomplished.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that's so great. I love. I really love the 50. 50.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, I might start doing that, actually. Okay. Another thing that you said that I want to go back to is with the high booking rate is you. You have your website dialed in. You have your social media dialed in. You know, you've got people talking about what you do. You sh. You talk about the experience. It's very clear and concise. You have beautiful work up front. Like, all of these things, you're making your life so much easier. And people don't have to think, like, what is it that they do? Or what's the experience? Or, why are they only showing photos of one type of person? Or the same shoot is the first five photo. Like, I talk about this all the time in my marketing course. Like, we have milliseconds to catch someone's attention.

[B]

It's so true.

[A]

And you gotta have that stuff nailed in. And if you don't, your booking rate is not going to be as high as you want it to be, regardless. Like, what's your. Do, you know, your average sale or what is your middle package?

[B]

My. Yeah, my average sale right now is 3500.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

It's great. It's great. And it's funny because sometimes I think, oh, maybe I should be charging more. I had a client recently say, like, oh, it's really good value for, you know, compared to some of the other photographers. And I was like, well, I'm glad it's good value, but, like, maybe I should raise.

[A]

But I feel I do that to myself, too. I'm like, I really should.

[B]

Yeah, it's not all about the money. I mean, look, do I want to make more money? Yeah, who doesn't, right? But not at the price of being gross about it or feeling yucky about myself.

[A]

Yeah, that's how. That's like the voice that I. That I have in my head. And it has to be what feels right to you at the time. And. And you have to know your numbers. You have to know what works for you. Like, I know my bottom line. I know how many shoots I need per month at what sales average in order to, you know, make the living. Exactly that I want, you know?

[B]

Exactly. So my. My largest package is 5500. It includes the biggest album, 35 images, and their full Collection of digitals. My middle collection is 3,000 with the standard album that they could always upgrade size. It comes with 20 images and the corresponding 20 digitals. Again, they can always add on more photos or upgrade on the album. And then my smallest package, which pretty much nobody really goes for, is 2,500 and that's 10 matted prints. Sometimes a maternity client will go with those, but oftentimes they still want the album as well.

[A]

Okay, so nice and simple. And I mean to have a $3,500 kind of average and have a really high booking rate, it's, you know, it's really great. It just shows that you're doing so much pre selling and pre marketing around it all without being, you know, salesy. You're just putting it out there. This is what I do and this is how it is and making that connection with people and providing good customer service and having beautiful photos even if they aren't perfect. Because lord knows mine are not perfect either. You know, it's my head about that.

[B]

Like, oh, no, the focus is on the nose and not the eyelash. Doesn't matter. Some, I mean, look, some. Sometimes it does. I mean, if you're doing commercial photography, I'm sure it does.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, that's the feeling is really, I think what's important when it comes to something like personal branding or portraiture. The feeling people have about who they are for sure and how they're being shown.

[A]

What's your studio like in Brooklyn? It is.

[B]

I love it here. I love my studio. It is about 1,000 square feet, which is way bigger than I thought I would ever be.

[A]

Are you in your studio now?

[B]

I am. This is just a little corner of my little office corner. But I have right next to me is sort of a client lounge area with a couch and a tv, the wardrobe rack, and then I have a big shooting area over here. I've got polished concrete floors, floor to ceiling windows, beautiful natural light. And I have toys. You know, I've got the lights and I've got backdrops, but mostly it's the gorgeous floors. I've got a bed, a couch, you know, a few small props, but for the most part, we keep it very simple.

[A]

I love your gold microphone. For people listening. I know I said this last episode or two episodes ago, but we are, we are doing video now. So for our YouTube channel, we will have this on full video. But I love your gold mic. I'm staring at it like, really fit my brand.

[B]

Me too. I'm all gray. It's basically all black, white, gray, and gold.

[A]

Yeah. I love it. I love it. My husband told me I reached my gold quota in the house. He's like, okay, reach no more. No more gold. I'm like, what? Whoever has a quota for too much gold?

[B]

Impossible.

[A]

But I could get a new mic and that would have nothing to do with.

[B]

I'll text you. He would text you the link.

[A]

There you go. Well, this has been really great. Yeah, I just, I. I love what you do and I just, I love your style and just. Yeah, it just, it feels like you have a very. Just a solid business model, especially with the business to business connection. Like that kind of stuff I think is not something we talk about enough. So I'm really, really glad you, you brought all that up.

[B]

So it makes a big difference and it helps everybody and I think that's what it's all about.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Very cool. Well, I do have four questions that I always ask at the end of each episode. And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[B]

I cannot live without a plan. I would say a shot list, but it's not quite that specific. I always want to allow time to be free and be creative. But things like what order we're going to shoot the outfits in generally wear in the studio. You know, the general poses, even small details about, you know, with boudoir, it's like when the shoes might be on versus off. Right. You. What's worse than having to like put your shoes on? No, now take them off. No, now put them on again.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

It just ruins the flow. So little details like that I'll try to plan out to a tee so that we do have time to be free and creative. So I'll make sure I get the shots, but then make sure I'm also capturing something that's unique to the clients. I mean, sometimes I shoot really fast and I think I would just like go nuts and just be a total spaz if I didn't have a written down plan.

[A]

Well, I think that's one of the ways that I can be quicker is I'm also doing it based on outfit. So if someone is wearing, you know, jeans in the same. I'm sorry, the same, like bottom half or top half of an outfit or whatever. Of course I'm gonna do those back to back, but I have to make sure I have my backdrops set up for that. And yeah. Yes. I used to write it down back when I. I don't Know, it just wasn't as. I wasn't as practiced back then. I used to write it down. Now it's just in my head. And then I have the clothes in order.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then the backdrops, mostly. I use mostly V flats, and I have them kind of lined up in order so that it's just so easy to just pull this one away and add this and here's your next outfit. And, you know, so smart.

[B]

It helps you and it also helps your client. They can see everything laid out. Any bits of confusion for a client are stressful and so I want to remove. And it sounds like you do the same thing. Any type of confusion. What's coming next? I'm not sure. No, everything is very clear and laid out so that it's frictionless for them.

[A]

Yep, Yep. I love it. Okay, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?

[B]

Well, I feel fortunate that photography is my hobby as well as my career, so I do a lot of photography. I'm always learning. I just devour Sue's, you know, the portrait system courses. I'm doing Damali Shepard's course on words, which I'm loving. So interesting. I have two little kids who I love, who I spend a lot of time with. And, you know, we live in New York, so I try to take them out on adventures and help them try to appreciate the city. And I also like to read memoirs. I just read Paulina Porizkova's book, no Filter. Highly recommended, I think, especially for portrait photographers. She talks a lot about aging and beauty and feeling seen as an older woman. And it's an easy read. It's really, really excellent.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, Good recommendation.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

All right, number three is what is a photography product that you would recommend for people to have?

[B]

I am a huge fan of shooting wide open, so I love my shallow focus, you know, my fast lenses. I love my Sigma Art series lenses. They are not cheap, but they are very much.

[A]

I have the 50. Yeah.

[B]

I have the 51.4, which is just fantastic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also use the 85, which is great. And then something that's not like, so geary, but that I use all the time is just a big swath of black upholstery velvet. I've put some of that onto a V flat, which I'll use as a backdrop. Especially if I'm doing fine art nudes or like sliver of light stuff.

[A]

It's up all the light.

[B]

It looks so great. You can do natural light fine art nudes really easily. With it. And you can also use it for. For a hundred things. Right. You can throw it over something that's distracting in the background. You can use it to as. To suck up light, you know, for negative fill. And it's light. You can throw it in your purse if you're not in a studio setting. I just think it's amazing. I use it all the time.

[A]

And it doesn't have that shine.

[B]

No, it's like some velvet does.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is great.

[B]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's the upholstery velvet. I think that's the matte. Just really sucks up the light.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Okay. Number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out?

[B]

I think you have to remember that people will remember the feeling that they have from an experience, sometimes more than the experience itself. And so I think really focus on giving your clients the best customer experience you possibly can. Always having a positive vibe. Because the best photographer in the world, you know, if they don't have a good energy and a good, you know, rapport with their clients, the clients aren't going to love those photos as much as a photo that they remember feeling beautiful. Like, I always think about a hair toss moment, right? You can feel you can be tossing your hair and the photographer can be like, do it again. Or I don't know, you know, this and that. Or your client can feel like Beyonce and you can be like, yes, girl. You know?

[A]

Yeah, let's keep that up. Like, totally.

[B]

Or if you miss it, it's kind of like, oh, you're perfect. You know, we're going to do one more for me. The way you phrase it and the way you make your clients feel, I think is everything. Because you can bet if they feel like Beyonce, they're going to buy that photo.

[A]

I know if I have a client in a. In a pose that it's maybe not working. I'm not going to be like, yeah, that's not working. I mean, I'm literally going to pretend it looks great, take the shot, and then go from there and like, oh, you know, I'm going to adjust you a little bit here. You know, I'm one. I'm never going to be like, oh, that's not going to work.

[B]

No. Or if a client has an idea for themselves, you know, I always try to end a session by saying, is there anything we haven't done yet that you still want to try?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes they say something that I'm just like, that's not going to work, but we're going to try it and I'm going to make them great and make them feel like their best selves. Right. So I think really focus on how your client is feeling and you know, it takes practice, but pick up on their cues, meet them where they are. Always have that positive attitude when working with them. And I think your business will succeed even before your technical skills are, you know, quote unquote perfect.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Sweet.

[A]

Stephanie, where can people find you online?

[B]

Oh, well, you can find me on my website, which is just Brooklyn boudoir.com or on Instagram at Brooklyn Boudoir.

[A]

Fantastic. Well, thank you. Thank you again. This has been amazing and I'm going to look at starting to take maybe half. Okay. One more thing, I do do half down for like bigger corporate shoots where they're paying a chunk at a time. It's not like per person, but I've never really thought about doing it for individuals. So thanks for that idea.

[B]

My pleasure. I'm happy to chat anytime. I'll send you the link of the microphone.

[A]

Oh yes, please do. Please do. Yes. That was so great. Thank you so much. And yeah, hopefully I'll see you at some point.

[B]

I would love that. Yeah, I would love that.

[A]

Very cool.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to sue briceducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.