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The Portrait System Podcast
How To Achieve a $3000 Sales Avg & Run a Successful Studio in Lagos, Nigeria with Jokotade Shonowo (Re-Release)
00:49:40
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A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
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B
For me, I feel like a portrait session should be enjoyed. It's like a therapeutic session for the person being photographed. It's more than the pictures. It makes the person feel a different type of way, makes them feel more powerful.
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A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host Nikki Klosser and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. And thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. My guest today on the Portrait System is Jokotare Shonowo and she is a photographer in Nigeria. She has a $3,000 sales average and in this episode she shares exactly how she makes this happen. Chokote's sister encouraged her to move studios one day and she took a leap of faith to a bigger, better studio in a more affluent area. This proved to help her business grow so much and she's so glad she made that choice. During her photo shoots, Jokotade celebrates the glamour and beauty of her clients and she infuses this into her marketing. She also has a team and she has someone who specifically does her sales sessions so she can spend time doing the things that she's really great at. Jo Kotade is truly a hard worker and an inspiration and it's so exciting to have her on the podcast. Okay, let's get started. Hi, Jo Kotade, how are you?
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B
Hi, Nikki. So good to talk to you.
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A
I know we were saying earlier that we've been wanting to do this for some long, so I'm glad we finally got the opportunity.
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B
Absolutely, absolutely. I'm so happy to be here.
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A
Will you tell our listeners where you live and just kind of give an overview of your business in general?
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B
Okay. My name is Jokota Dshunowo and I live in Lagos, Nigeria. I'm a portrait and wedding photographer, and I discovered my love for photography in 2009. And after that, I kept on unraveling the different layers of photography until I found my love for portraits in 2015. Sixteen, thereabout. And I pursued it closely, which is when I pretty much launched out my studio. And since then, it's been a very interesting ride thanks to Sue Brice, who made me also get serious with my business so that I could, you know, transformed to the kind of business owner that I am now.
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A
Yeah, yeah. All right. So you focus on both weddings and portraits.
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B
So I would say more portraits than weddings.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah. Because initially when I started out in 2009, I pretty much used to do everything. I started with a bit of random home portraits to small bridal showers, and then eventually weddings, birthdays. I just pretty much used to do a whole lot of stuff. And then gradually, at some point, I started doing a lot of corporate briefs. But for some reason in 2016, I think I found Sue Brice in 2011 or 12, but I really didn't zone into portraits until 2015. 16, thereabout. Yeah.
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A
Okay, so it hasn't really been too long since you got serious about your business? About seven years.
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B
Absolutely. That was when I got my first studio, literally.
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A
Yeah. So what did you do before you were focusing on photography?
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B
So I found photography in 2009, and I was pretty much in my final year in university. So for me, it was a period where I still had to do a couple of things. Like in Nigeria, after you graduate, you're supposed to go for a youth service, which I did for one year, and you're supposed to work. So all that time I was trying my hands out on what photography could mean to me. So then, even though it wasn't so serious for me, then I registered my business. Whatever gig I got, I would make sure the money passes through my bank account just so I can can have an idea of how much money I've made from my photography business. And, you know, I just kept on finding myself I kept on networking, unknowingly, I must say. But then I got married in 2013, and I had a baby, my daughter, Demi Lade, in 2014. And it was then it dawned on me that I just couldn't be a freelance photographer who would just, you know, get up and go at any point in time. I needed a lot more stability. So that was when I committed to getting a studio space. And of course, once you have a studio space, it will come naturally to you to, you know, put in more work towards portraits. And really, that was how my. The portrait part of my photography started. And even as at that time, you know, because it was the rental of the place I. I secured at the time was. Wasn't anything that was uncomfortable. So, you know, I was pretty much, you know, comfortable. And I'm like, you know, from all my wedding gigs and birthdays, I could easily pay these bills. So, you know, there was no drive, there was no motivation. Not up until my older sister, who's also an entrepreneur, moved to an upscale part of town. And she was like, I've got this space, and I think it would be good for you. And I was like, no, I'm not interested. She', no, you have to come. And I'm like, okay. You know, at the end of it, I moved into the space, and whenever I think about what my rent is, and I'm just like, you know what, girl? You need to be serious. So it was at that point I really sat down with my pricing. You know, I narrowed everything down, and I made sure that the business was profitable enough to pay its bill and also have profits at the end of the year.
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A
Right. Okay. So you made quite a big jump then from studios?
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B
Yes, absolutely.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Now there are people out there who are. Who are nervous to get their first studio. You know, do you feel like, you know, okay, people are afraid they're not gonna be able to pay the rent. They're not gonna get the clients. Like, do you find yourself to be someone who is, like, a risk taker and you're willing to just give it a try, or did you feel like you had the backup, you know, funds just in case?
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B
So I'll answer the question in two parts. Am I a risk taker? I'll say a yes and a no. No in the sense that when there's nothing at stake and I'm in my comfort zone, sometimes as humans, we tend to want to stay there. However, when you're pushed against a wall, the natural reaction is to move and make things happen. So I Would say that when push comes to shove, I get up and I move and I make sure I get results right. And the second question was, were there funds available to make this happen? I would say yes and no at the same time because I had to pay back, literally. So it wasn't like it was a grant or, you know, it was a gift. It was more like a loan and investment, you know, to say, you know what, come over here, I'm going to give you a soft landing, but you're going to pay back. So it meant that coming to that part of town, I had to walk twice as hard, be a lot more serious about my business, especially my numbers, to make sure that I was profitable enough to pay back in due time, in record time, literally. And really that just made me structure my business properly, price wise and also manage my time and also communicate expectations to my clients as regards what they will have. Because on a normal day when I used to go to clients houses, I would just go there, I'll be there for a very long time. And at the end of the shoot, even if I had promised them maybe 20 images and I see, oh my God, I love about 60, I wouldn't know when I would just edit it all and just dash it all away. So I was pretty much working like a shoot and burn when I realized that, you know, I could turn my images into a product. And that was literally what I did. So following the suburise model whereby, you know, there's a session fee, there's a collection, and then I now created my own prices per image. So I told people, you know, you could buy as little as one image or you could buy as many as you want in a collection. It was all up to you. I tried different, you know, price, you know, campaigns, and I realized the ones that started working for me. So once I see that, you know, we're getting slightly overwhelmed at a particular price range, we move it to the next level, you know, just so that we're able to still, you know, effectively serve our clients.
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A
Mm. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting for you to say that. Just going back to sometimes you have to take that risk because you don't have a whole lot of other choices. And it's like sometimes, yeah, sometimes when we're, when we're in that position, it can feel hard, but then we probably wouldn't have taken that risk otherwise. So it's like it's there to happen for you, to help you along. Even though at the time it feels scary, like I've interviewed people who've lost their job, but then that catapulted them to start their business. So it's a really good perspective to have on that. I'm glad you brought that up.
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B
Absolutely. And like I always say, there's always something that has to push you to do things. Because like I said earlier, as humans, when we're comfortable in a place, you know, when there's no push, when there's nothing pinching you in your feet, we don't want to move. We just want to relax. We just want to, you know, just. You know what? I'm good. I really don't have to do extra. I don't have to do more because I'm okay. But when you realize that, no, there's a lot at stake, there's a lot to lose, there's more that I want, you know, because there's a whole lot ahead of me that I still want to achieve. I'm like, how do I get here? How do I plot this graph? Then I'm like, you know what, girl, you've got to put in the work.
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A
Yeah. Actually. So you said you used to do weddings. Is that something like, did you do a lot of weddings or just a few here and there?
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B
So I would say that I did a few weddings. I was never the type of photographer who did about 40 weddings a year, but we did about like 15, 20 weddings a year. And then as time went by that I got more serious in the portrait photography side of my business. You know, sometimes we've had five weddings. But now what has happened is it's just moved from regular weddings now. So whenever we have weddings out there, more likely luxury weddings, as opposed to just, yeah, low end weddings. So that's. That's been it. Okay.
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A
Okay. So let's talk about your portrait business then. What is the, like, client experience if someone books a photo shoot with you?
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B
Okay. Yes. So for us, we're very particular about, you know, how we make every of our clients feel from the moment they say hello on the phone up until their photo shoots and even delivery. So it's a boutique experience, literally, as should be. And we take them through styling. Sometimes we try to help them decide on their vendors. So in Nigeria, we wear quite elaborate, you know, so you will see people wanting to wear almost sometimes 10 outfits, eight outfits for one photo shoot.
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A
Oh, wow.
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B
Yes. You know, we're quite. We're quite glamorous here. And of course, we have some simple people as well who would go for, you know, fewer outfits because we love to Celebrate life here. We love to have fun. We love to dress up, we love to show off. You know, we love to look good. So people bring their Sunday's best, literally, for their photo shoots, and they go all out.
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A
I love that.
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B
So sometimes we get to sit with them from the planning phase for people who reach out early, you know, because then again, there's something that really, that is really rampant with some of our clients. They book their shoots really last minute, they need their pictures maybe in like a week or two weeks. And we're just like, no, that's not how we work. But, you know, but sometimes it's a repeat client. You're like, I don't want you to go anywhere else. So I would just, you know, take them on, you know, sometimes.
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A
Okay, so are you saying that sometimes you'll. You'll book more than you really wanted to in a period of time just because you're worried you're gonna lose that client to someone else?
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B
No, no, that's not what I meant.
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Okay.
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What I was trying to say is that sometimes we have people who don't plan their shoots early enough. Right.
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A
Okay.
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B
So they come in last minute and they're repeat clients. So we always extend that, you know, cutsy to them, saying, you know what? You're already part of the family, you know, just come in. We'll just make that like a waiver for you, literally.
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Okay.
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And sometimes we get like a lot of those. When we have the opportunity to accommodate them, we do. But when we don't have the opportun opportunity to, we don't. And most times when it's last minute like that, they don't get to enjoy, you know, that detailed process whereby you go through every detail with them, you know, from their outfits, you know, because it's rushed. People will just have to come in, you know, and just appear for their shoots.
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A
I love that you said that. People bring their Sunday best. They're glamorous, they want to go all out. And I know not everyone is, you know, wants to be dressed up and that sort of thing, but you'll hear a lot of people say, like in the States or in the UK or in Australia, like, people don't. They feel like they're being vain or something if they're, if they're coming in and getting all, like, glammed up for photos and it's like, no, you're not. You're celebrating who you are, and there's no shame in that.
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B
Exactly, exactly. And not even in Nigeria, people go all out for Themselves. Even for personal branding shoots, people would go all out and buy new suits, new outfits, new dresses just for that power killer shot. So trust me, we don't do small here in Nigeria. We're quite extra.
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A
I love it. I love that. It's like, you know, it's a reason to feel proud and celebrate who you are as a woman or a man or, you know, just in general. It's. I love. It's great actually. Question for you. Do you feel like it makes your job easier to sell portrait photo shoots because people are willing to celebrate themselves?
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B
Absolutely. You know, because for me, I've been a recipient of referrals literally, because I've had repeat clients time and over again from a network of all the people that I have photographed. So it's a case of, oh, this Mr. A. Mrs. A has celebrated herself. And then it's also just going to go on. They've seen the work, they like it, they want to celebrate themselves too. And then it just comes along. And you know what is always so interesting or when we're really, really happy is when we have a client that actually loves themselves so much and loves pictures so much. You know, there was a particular time that we had a client buy over 80 images of herself and I was like, oh my goodness. Like, why like. But of course we got it done. But it just opened my eyes to the fact that some people really, really are into themselves. And with people like that, if there's one of that kind of person, there's definitely more. So there's room for what I'm selling.
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A
Absolutely. So, okay, so people come in and you said usually people come with eight to 10 outfits. So how long are your shoots? Are you doing multiple sets or are you sticking with one backdrop? Tell us that process.
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B
Oh, wow. Okay. So whenever we get to do that number of looks, it's usually like a day long affair. It starts from about 9am and if everything goes as planned, you know, like makeup artist is fast enough in like the touch ups and some of the hairstyling changes will be done say like 6pm thereabout.
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Okay. That's a long day.
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It's a long day. It's a long day.
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A
Jokotani, you said we a couple times. Do you have a whole team?
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Yes, I have a team.
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Tell me about that.
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I have a team that I work with and I started building my team immediately. I got a studio. In fact, I think I had an assistant even before I got a studio. Because even while I was freelancing, I had a cousin who Gave me a space in his office with his project managers where I had my assistant sit and work for the longest time, even though we didn't have a studio in particular. But that's where she used to resume and close. Literally get all the backend work done from there. So when I actually got a studio, then I hired my first assistant. And then from then on we've grown from a team of just two of us to a team of about six. So where we have about three retouchers, we have an admin personnel, there's also an intern who's pretty much like an assistant for everything and everyone. Yeah.
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A
Wow. Okay, so that's awesome. I mean, you have like a bunch of people supporting you. That's really great.
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B
Yeah, the support is really important, especially as a female photographer. I've got two kids and I would say that with the demand of the job, it's important to have a team that work with you to achieve your goals. If not one would burn out. And really, the more the merrier.
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A
Yeah, yeah. I think it's very common for people to burn out, but I also think it's common for people to wonder how in the world they're going to pay this team. So I'm curious if you don't mind sharing, do you pay a salary or is it hourly or commission?
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B
So yes, I pay a salary. In the beginning, all the people that have worked for me were people who joined as interns. In fact, one of them came in to train and then eventually got absorbed in, you know, so we have like a mix of different individuals and there's some people who are also like contract staff, meaning when we need them, that's when they come on board for a project and then, you know, they leave. Yeah. So they, they all get a salary. And that just really pushes me to know that this has got to work because all of these people depend on the success of this organization to make a living. So I have no other choice. It has to work, literally. Because I'm not going to let them down. Because if I let let them down, then I'm letting myself down.
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A
Yeah, that's a lot of pressure. I remember I was interviewing Wendy Decramer, she's in Belgium and she also has a staff and she employs her sister in law and she's like, okay, I really have to make this work because I'm like helping my family pay the bills too, you know, and her sister in law works very hard and earns, you know. But it seems like yes, it does make you, it pushes you Harder. But it seems like a lot of pressure, too.
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B
It is, but in a positive way. I mean, so in the beginning, it used to be that I would say, okay, we really need to make some money this month. You know, like, when it was just me, it was okay if I didn't have any gig in a month, but by the time I hired the first person, it was pertinent that I had to make a sale every month. So that also gets you thinking strategically about how you're going to make this happen. So you're not just going to sit on your bum or your couch all day and just faff away waiting for people to reach out to you, you know? So I think it's a good kind.
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A
Of pressure, you know, that's very true.
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Because it gets you thinking in creative ways on how to, you know, solve that problem. So, Effy.
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A
Yeah, it's very true. Are you the only shooter or do you have other people who shoot as well?
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B
So we have a team of photographers. So in as much as the portraits end of a business, you know, is thriving, we also photograph, like, events. You know, there are no weddings that are house parties, corporate events. So everyone on my team shoots everyone in the photography, you know, operations team, they can handle a camera and they can shoot an event. And when we're photographing children as well or we're doing personal brand portraits, they also handle that. However, when it comes to the celebratory portraits, you know, the glam shoots, my clients usually want me to be the one to do it, so. Which is why most of the time I get to do it. But once in a while, you know, someone, our team lead in the. On the team, steps in and fills in when I'm not available. So it's a yes and no.
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A
Okay, Gotcha.
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B
But on a scale of 1 to 100, I would say I shoot like, 90% of the time. Yeah.
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A
Okay. Okay. And then. And it's all under the umbrella of posh click portraiture.
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B
Yes, please. Absolutely.
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A
Okay. Yeah. There's definitely a benefit to naming a business something other than your name, because if you're not available, it's not like someone can't fill in for you when it's just, you know, if it was just Joko, Tade, Shino, it's like they're expecting you.
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B
You. Exactly.
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A
And only you.
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Yeah. But even as it's posh click they like, because for me, the business has grown from my network, literally. So it's people that know who I am that hire me, you know, and hire the team. So gradually I had to teach them and let them, you know, for all these smaller events and other things, I have a team that can handle this. So, you know, in the past three to four years now, when they book, they know I'm not the one coming because a team member will be there, you know, to represent the team. But once it's portrayed, they usually say, oh, I hope you'll be the one. You know, they're just always a little bit particular about that because, you know, they just love to feel the energy, you know, the.
- [24:32]
A
Right.
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The vibes. Yes. Because people tend to tell me, like, one of the things that they enjoy most about the session is the energy I bring into the room. And that's like one of my superpowers.
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A
Oh, I believe it. I believe it. It's so important. We talk about that a lot here on the podcast, about having that good connection with your clients. That's how you get the referrals.
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B
Absolutely, absolutely. Because for me, I feel like a portrait session should be enjoyed. It's like a therapeutic session for the person being photographed. It's more than the pictures. It makes the person feel a different type of way, makes them feel more powerful, you know, and feel like they just feel, you know, glamorous. Especially, you know, when we're having a session and I, you know, tell my team, oh, can you bring the fan? And it's blowing the hair. I'm like. They're like, oh, my God, this is a Beyonce moment. So now just posting.
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A
It'S always so good. Yeah. Bringing out the fan, I feel like always makes for a Beyonce moment.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
Yeah. That's great. Let's talk a little bit about how your pricing and packages work.
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B
Okay, so we've tried to categorize our glam portrait. So for this context, now I'm going to be talking about our portrait pricing catalog. So we've categorized it into two pretty much, which is when the client comes into the studio and when we have to go to them, because here in Nigeria, a lot of times people want you to come to their homes or to a location to photograph them. So we have two different pricing catalogs. So we have one that's called the in studio catalog, and then we have the out studio catalog. So the session fees are different because for the out studio catalog, we charge like a logistics fee and every other thing. So it's double that of the studio, literally.
- [26:24]
A
Thank you for doing that, by the way. Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to A really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50 off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. People sometimes think that they should charge less on location because they don't have a studio. And I'm like, what? Like, no way. It's way harder.
- [27:21]
B
Absolutely not. You know, because there are so many things you have to move there. Well, for me, I speak for myself now. I mean, you know, I know the number of things that I have to move with me to that location. So it's not like I'm discouraging you with the price. I mean, if you're able to, by all means will show up. But I'm most comfortable in my space, so. Which is why I love it when we're photographing in studio. So we have that, we charge that separately. And then our collections start from a collection of six images. Then we progress to 10 images, 20, 30, 40, and then 50, which we call the dream collection. Yeah, so that's how our pricing catalog is fashioned.
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A
Okay. And then those are all digitals. Are those including prints?
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B
So what we. The way we also fashioned it is it's ideally digital. However, we give a complementary print for every digital image purchased, so it's really not separated from the digitals. So we give them an 8 by 11 matte print in the folio box for each image that is purchased. That's how the pricing is structured. And then when you get up until the there's a particular collection you get up to, then you now have the option to choose between either you want a photo book or you want to continue with the folios with the matte prints in a folio box.
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A
Okay, so you basically follow kind of the packages and folio boxes that sue teaches.
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B
Yes, somewhat. Okay. Yeah, somewhat. I do.
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A
All right. And then what is your average sale? And I know it's naira, right? Your currency in Nigeria.
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay, So I don't know if you have that converted to US Dollars. But you can say it in whichever you want. I can look it up.
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B
So in the past, before the devaluation of the Naira, I would have said it was somewhere around 3,000 thereabouts. But now with the devaluation of the naira is between 2000 and 2500 US dollars.
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A
Yes, that's, it's incredible.
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B
However, a couple of times, you know, at least in a year, some we get a couple of like five to six, five thousand dollar clients, you know, as well. But the average, the actual average is about 2, 5 to 3,000. Yeah.
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A
That's so wonderful. Good for you.
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B
Thank you.
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A
Yeah, I mean, I just, I absolutely love it and your work is beautiful, so I'm not surprised.
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B
Thank you. Thank you so much.
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A
Yeah, of course. Okay, so they get the digitals, they get the complimentary print in the photo box. Do you show them retouched or unretouched videos? Like, how do you do your photo viewing process?
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B
Okay, so that was the part that, you know, I struggled with for the best part because I just couldn't bring myself down to editing all the great images and then not having them buy everything. It would just literally do my heading. So I show raw pictures, literally I show raw pictures. And then from the raw pictures, I make sure that we guide them through the process. In case it's someone who has like a bit of insecurity about any part of their body, we drill down and ask questions to know, okay, so what don't you like about this image? We can fix this, we can fix that. You know, just so they feel comfortable. And then that always results in, in a good sale. And of course, we've had a couple of people who tell you I only want three images. And they come and they get the three images and they're gone. And it's just like, is it that I don't know how to sell anymore. But I mean, you need a mix of both for, to garner experience, you know, so. But it's always good when we have a good sale.
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A
Yeah, yeah, it's the law of averages. It happens. And I think sometimes people get discouraged if they have a, you know, a lower sale. But, you know, whatever.
- [31:25]
B
I'd say in the beginning, yes, it was quite discouraging. However, for me, I just see everything that happens as a learning point. I like to look at it like, okay, what can I take from this? What can I do better to make sure that I'm able to sell more, you know, when next I have the opportunity to. Yeah, and sometimes it's really not about you or what you've done or the photos you've taken for them. It might be the budget they're working with, you know, and they're very strict on their budget. Yeah. So it's really not about you, you know, but then again, it always feels good when you're able to persuade someone to spend a bit more. I mean.
- [32:01]
A
Yeah, absolutely. All right, so let's shift gears and talk a little bit about marketing. I know you said referrals are a big. A big part of your, you know, how you get your clients, but how else do you bring clients in?
- [32:14]
B
Okay, so I would say networking, nurturing, relationships. So these are things I have done unconsciously over the years and have yielded results. But I'm just coming to that realization maybe like. Like two years ago. But the most important. Oh, and then of course, social media, because. Social media and celebrating people as well. Because, you know, when you, like I told you, we love celebratory portraits here in Nigeria. So when it a lady's birthday, let's say she's turning 40 or she's turning 50 and she gets a portrait done, you know, her friends are literally. Some even come for the shoot just to show support, you know, for her. So it's like a. It's a mini party for them, you know, and then even after the shoot, they're telling you, my friends are asking me for the photos, which means the friends wants to go all out with these photos and imagine the number of friends that they have. So that right there is like network marketing. So you have one person, the person maybe has about. Let's just keep this minimum, let's say 15 friends or 20 or 30 friends. And they all splash out your pictures with your logos on it. Some people feel so drawn to it, they reach out immediately. So usually we've noticed a trend whereby when it's someone's birthday and we post their pictures on our platform, we say nice things about them, we celebrate them, you know, like, we don't lie, we say the truth as it is. I mean, but we celebrate them and, you know, put it out there. It brings a lot more traction, you know, for us because we get more inquiries. Because I like to track metrics, you know, of things that happen per time just to see, okay, where's this coming from? And we also like to ask questions as well, to say, oh, how did you find us? And they'll say, oh, you photographed my friend XYZ so, so, so year. And I just knew that you were going to be the one to do my portraits whenever I was ready, you know, so we get a lot of that. Or some would just say, oh, I just found you randomly on Instagram. I typed in a hashtag and you came up, you know, so it's a. It's a mixture of different things, but the one that still stands out for me the most, the ones that convert the most, are people that are referred, because in addition to them seeing that your work is beautiful, they've also gone to get feedback about what their experience was with you, as opposed to someone who has just found you online, who doesn't know anyone that has engaged your services, you know, so the referral still stands as the number one for me through and through. And there's something else that I realized that when it comes to networking, you meet some people for the first time, maybe in your child's school or. Or at a networking event or in your sister's house or in your friend's house, and they actually do watch you over a period of time. I've had people that I met maybe three years ago, we had not really had, like, so much, you know, interface, but two years down the line, three years down the line, they're becoming clients. So it's made me realize that it's important to actually nurture relationships and nurture people. You know, don't just think, oh, I met this person now, and they haven't converted, so they're useless to me. No, they're not. Because it's a process. You know, some of them don't make decisions immediately. Some of them don't have need for it at that time. And whenever the need arises, they definitely would reach out to you because they're watching.
- [35:47]
A
You are exactly right. You're exactly right. People are watching. And it's not always the right time for everyone at the same time. Such a good point. And I love that you talked about how you celebrate birthdays. Everyone has a birthday, so it makes it really relatable. Like someone might be like, oh, I'm turning 40 next year, or 50 or 30, or, you know, whatever that is. So I think that's a really smart way to do it. And I'm wondering if you mentioned you have the dream packages. Is that something that you kind of market for birthdays or, you know, how do you market that dream package?
- [36:20]
B
So it's not like I market it in any way. The truth is I titled it the Dream Package because it was literally the collection. I just thought to myself, would anybody ever book this? Literally? So it's a dream for Me, it's a dream come true when you book that package, literally. So it's right there on the price list. And I don't necessarily market it in any other way. However, I have one or two perks, you know, that come with a dream package that, you know, that appeal to people who really love pictures, you know. So, for instance, people tell me a lot, oh, how come I'm taking all these images and then I'm not going to have all my pictures? Right. So I now thought about it for someone who bought. There was a particular client I had who bought about 85 pictures and she asked me, she was like, oh, that. So she wants all of those photos. How can she get them? She didn't mind paying for them. And I just thought I wouldn't want to edit more than the photos I've already edited for you or retouched for you. So, you know what, if you pick my dream package, you get all of these extras, complimentary, literally unretouched, you know, as it is, we'll just jpeg them and send to you. So. So for anybody that asks us, it's not written in there because we really don't want to give people images that are not retouched. I mean, but it's a perk. So some people think about it. I just want to see myself. I just want to see all the pictures that I took that day. So, yeah, I'm going to go for that package. So it works for me.
- [37:57]
A
It's an easy upsell.
- [37:58]
B
Absolutely.
- [38:00]
A
Yeah. Absolutely. Very easy.
- [38:02]
B
Yeah.
- [38:03]
A
I think some people are afraid of just giving out the raw images, but if you shoot well enough in camera, it shouldn't be a huge deal.
- [38:10]
B
Yeah. So another thing that we do also before we do that is we take out all the bad images. We take out all the poses that are not right. Maybe the other squinting and whatnot. Yeah. So we're still putting our best foot forward regardless.
- [38:25]
A
Right. Do you do all of your sales sessions or does someone on your team help with those?
- [38:29]
B
In the beginning I used to do it myself, but over time I have a team member who handles it because sometimes we have like multiple viewing sessions that I can't possibly be available. So what we do is we use the Google workspace for our CRM. So that way if they're having the meeting, I could also join in when I'm not busy to just give my impute sometimes. But a team member handles that all the time.
- [38:58]
A
That's nice because it's a lot of time and it's a Lot of just. It is. And for people who are listening, who really don't love sales, you could always think about that, of hiring a team member to do it for you.
- [39:11]
B
I know, but it took a while for us to get there, though, because I think we started going through using that method of doing viewings online in 2020, you know, after the lockdown or during the lockdown. That was when we started that. And we also offer in person selection as well. So what the photographer mainly does is, you know, we would have sifted through all the images, brought out only the best images that we think they could possibly like, and then we narrowed down for them and the rest is history.
- [39:45]
A
Yeah. Fantastic. This is so great. And, and you really. I mean, I know you've been a photographer for a long time.
- [39:51]
B
Yes.
- [39:52]
A
But I mean, in seven years. And you have two kids now.
- [39:55]
B
Yes, I do.
- [39:56]
A
Yeah. So two kids and only seven years. You have a full team. You have. It sounds like a very busy studio with an average between 2,500 and 3,000 depending on, you know, what the Naira.
- [40:09]
B
Yeah, the exchange rate is. Yeah, yeah.
- [40:12]
A
I mean, that's a really kick ass business if you ask me.
- [40:16]
B
I'm grateful to God because he's my source.
- [40:19]
A
Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, you just, you seem like a hard worker and, and you know, it's, it's. I'm sure it's interesting looking back to when you first got that new studio and, you know, the conversation you had with your sister and isn't it fun to look back at where you were and where you're at now?
- [40:35]
B
I'm always looking back. I'm always looking back at it and I'm just always in a state and an attitude of gratitude because I couldn't have done any of it, you know, by my own doing. It could all have been God, you know, using people as well. In fact, there's a particular. I'm launching my first ever campaign called In My Corner. And it really just stemmed out from looking back at how I've had people along the way, you know, pull me up, cheer me on, support me, suggest things to me, criticize me constructively also, you know, chastise me. And that for me just said, you know what? We need to do something to shine light on the actual superstars who are the wind beneath our wings that make us look good. Because really without all of these people, there can be posh click. Literally.
- [41:36]
A
Well, and your work too is really beautiful. Like I said before, it's really beautiful. I was just Scrolling through your Instagram earlier, and I came across. Yeah, I came across a photo, and she's leaning back. It's like a side view of her, and it looks like she's on the beach, but I'm not convinced she actually is on the beach.
- [41:56]
B
That was shutting my studio.
- [41:58]
A
I was wondering. It's really. I love how you did this, though. It's like. I just really love it where she's got her hand. She's leaning backwards.
- [42:08]
B
Yes.
- [42:08]
A
And she has the one knee up and one leg. And, you know, you can see where you added the sun in. And, you know, you can tell, like, she's probably not actually on the beach, but you did a really great job showing that. And it's just. It's something that made me stop and, you know, want to learn more. So. Yeah. How did you do that? How did you. Did you just retouch the sun in?
- [42:30]
B
Okay, so what I did to that image was it was shot on a white, seamless paper in the studio. So for me, when I shoot images, I don't necessarily know what I'm going to do to it until I start retouching. So I'd finished, you know, my team had finished the first part of the retouching because I always go through all our images to check for quality control, what could have been done better before it finally ends up with the clients. And if there's any ideas I get, then I do all of that, you know, before it gets to the client. So for that particular picture, I just thought, okay, there could be more. So first thing I did was I tweaked it and I warped it up a little bit to. To look like she was sitting on a higher, you know, ground than just being sat on the floor. It was slanted. Yes. Like a hill of sand, literally. And then I have this. They're vectors that I've saved over time from different websites. So I just thought, okay, what more elements can I introduce into this? You know? And I just tried out a couple, and that worked best. And. And that was it, literally. Yeah.
- [43:39]
A
It's neat. I'm sure your client loved it.
- [43:41]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [43:44]
A
Yeah. Awesome.
- [43:45]
B
And a lot of people refer to that image as well. I'm grateful.
- [43:51]
A
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing everything, Jokotane. Really? Yeah. You're very inspiring, and I love your energy and I love your laugh, too. You have a really great laugh. It makes me, like, smile. Every time you laugh, I just want to giggle.
- [44:08]
B
Thank you so much.
- [44:09]
A
Awesome. I do have a couple other questions for you, though.
- [44:12]
B
Okay.
- [44:13]
A
That I always ask at the end of each episode, and the first one is, what can't you live without? Can you not? I don't know. Anyways, what can't you live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [44:27]
B
That would be music.
- [44:30]
A
A lot of people say music.
- [44:32]
B
Music. Yeah. Because for me, music is very spiritual. I love music. I love to sing and dance. You know, before I found photography, my hobbies were singing and dancing, literally. So photography was something that was in the back burner that I really did not realize my passion for it until I saw it come alive, you know? So I would say music. I think music is everything. Everyone can connect to music because there's some type of music that each and everyone loves. So when they hear it, you know, it just makes them come alive. And this. This has no age limit, from children to young adults to adults to people who are more spiritual. You know, someone has. There's a music for everyone. There's this type of music for everyone. So it would be music, of course. I'm Food.
- [45:23]
A
Food. That's a good answer for me. Yeah. Awesome. And then how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [45:32]
B
Okay. When I'm not working. So it's almost like my brain is always in overdrive. So I'm always researching new stuff, just random things. And of course, have fun with my kids. Being goofy and all. Funny. Yeah. With my family.
- [45:50]
A
How old are your kids?
- [45:51]
B
They're seven and five.
- [45:54]
A
Oh, okay. Those are fun ages. Yeah, I think I'm not quite there. I'm at 5 and 3, so I guess I'm not there yet, so maybe I should say that.
- [46:02]
B
Very inquisitive, quite opinionated. But I love it. I love it. You know, you get to see their character bloom. So it's so interesting to watch.
- [46:13]
A
Awesome. And then number three is. What is your favorite inspirational quote?
- [46:18]
B
I have quite a number, but I would say the one that I always tell myself is that I am enough. Regardless of what happens, I am enough. I'm enough to tackle any situation. I'm enough to move myself, you know, to the next level. I want to be. I mean, with the grace of God, you know, because that is supreme. But I am enough. Literally, that's what it would be.
- [46:47]
A
I love that. It's simple and powerful and it's meaningful. Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Number four is, what would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [46:59]
B
Hmm. What I would tell someone starting out is, know yourself. Know the reason why you're venturing into this, which is pretty much knowing your why, because there will become a time when it being cold is just not enough. The reason why you're doing this is what would drive you. And one of the reasons why I said know yourself is because you're going to, you know, meet a lot of options and advice along the way. Stay grounded, you know, in who you are. Be open to learning new things. But at the same time, when you learn new things, you sift through, look at the ones that are relevant to you. Keep them. The ones that are not, throw them out. Because that really, literally affected me in the beginning, whereby. So I started out, and this was when I was shooting weddings. I started out, you know, as this girl who had just, you know, found how to use portraiture. And I really loved it. So I would just, like, slather it over the skin, but for some reason, I was doing it quite well. And then I came across a group of photographers who were preaching natural skin, blah, blah, blah. But unfortunately for me, I didn't understand what they meant by going natural. So for me, I interpreted it as not editing at all. So, you know, that took me back almost like one to two years because people were wondering, like, I don't get this. What are you on about now? After teasing us with this really nice, nicely retouched skin, and then you're going back to, you know, you know, showing blemishes and all of that on the face, you know, so. So for me, that was like, something that I think, you know, kind of slowed me down in the beginning while I was learning. So I would say, you know, know who you are, know what your style is, know in which direction you're headed, and stay grounded, stay hungry, keep learning, and, you know, keep growing.
- [49:00]
A
Love it. That's great advice. Definitely. We do. We do have a lot of information and education coming at us, and we just have to stay grounded and decide what works best for us and go with it. Absolutely love that you said that.
- [49:10]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [49:11]
A
Awesome. And where can people find you online.
- [49:14]
B
So online I'm available at Posh Click at Posh Click Portraiture. And we also have an educational platform where we empower body photographers. We empower them, equip them with the right knowledge and skill at beyond the Shutter. It's also on Instagram. And you could also connect with us on a website as well. Www.poshstickportraiture.com.
- [49:38]
A
Awesome. Very cool. Thank you. Well, thank you again, and hopefully we'll get to meet in person one day.
- [49:43]
B
Fingers crossed.
- [49:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [49:46]
B
By the grace of God.
- [49:48]
A
Yeah.
- [49:49]
B
Thank you so much, Nikki.
- [49:51]
A
Thank you again for being here. It was an honor to chat with you and just hear your story and yeah, I'm excited for you. I feel like you're. This is just the beginning for you.
- [50:00]
B
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
- [50:03]
A
Okay, you take care.
- [50:04]
B
Nice chatting with you. And you too. Bye.
- [50:07]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review? Review wherever you listen. I also encourage you to head over to soubreiseducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for, for your business, lighting, pdfs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that's suebriceducation.
- [50:50]
B
Com.