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The Portrait System Podcast
How to Infuse Your Own Lifestyle Into Your Marketing with Chris Orwig (Re-Release)
01:06:29
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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
He goes, orwig, you love surfing. You're amazing with people. You need to photograph surfers. And it was like, oh my gosh, you're right. And then I went and I decided, okay, I don't want to photograph my friends who are surfers. I want to photograph my heroes, legends. I want to photograph the best surfers in the world. And then that literally changed my whole life and my career.
- [00:58]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started today. My guest on the Portrait System is Chris Orwig, and he is a veteran photographer in Santa Barbara, California. Chris absolutely brings passion into what he does and he's such a great storyteller through his work. Something I really love about Chris's work is that he infuses his own lifestyle into it, his marketing, so that he can do the type of photo shoots that bring him joy. We talked all about how he brings together his business and pleasure and why it's important for you to do the same with your own work. All right, let's get started with Chris Orwig. Hey, Chris, how are you?
- [02:10]
B
I am really well. So fun. To talk. I'm really looking forward to this.
- [02:14]
A
Yeah, me too. Me too. I've been watching your work for a while now and yeah, I have so many questions for you, just about everything you do. So I'm glad we actually get to hash it all out so everyone can hear.
- [02:27]
B
Yes, yes, likewise. And I appreciate so much how you approach life and creativity and your podcast. So it's a huge honor to get to be a part of it.
- [02:36]
A
Oh, thank you. Thank you. So I was, when I was looking at your website earlier this morning, I always, I was looking at your like about page. I always want to check out what people say, you know, on their about page. I'm always curious when I interview people. Anyways, it said that you had been hit by a car when you were skateboarding and that's how you started photography.
- [02:55]
B
Yeah, yeah, I know it's really sounds really dramatic, but it was decades ago. But I was, I had that accident and then I was in all this chronic pain and just chronic issues. And anyone out there who suffered things that extend recovery from different kinds of stuff know how difficult that can be. And I think at the time, because I was in my low 20s, I was so physically active and then all of a sudden wasn't that difficulty was amplified and my dad gave me a camera and the camera helped me to shift my focus off of myself. This will sound kind of weird, but I think it'll make sense. But when you have some kind of chronic issue, you can easily become overly self absorbed with it because let's just. I'm just going to make up something small. Let's say your pinky is broken and 500 people a day say, hey Chris, how's your pinky toe? You know, and you say, wow, it hurts. Wow, it hurts. It hurts. It's still broken. Can you walk? No, I can't walk, you know, or whatever the injury is. Right. And so what happened is that loop of getting caught up in that cycle of pain, which part of it's healing and restorative. You have to pay attention to your body and figure out what do you need. But also you can get caught in a downward spiral emotionally, which is where I was. So all of a sudden I held the camera up to my eye and. And it broke that and I shifted focus off of self to something else in a very limited way, obviously framed way. My pictures were horrible, but it didn't matter. And it still doesn't matter. It's healing for me. It's restorative, It's a way to cultivate presence and awe and wonder and empathy and to gain wisdom about how to live. And that's whether photographing a person or a tree or whether having a camera or not, I think it's just learning how to see. So, yeah, that was really a big part of my start, my foundation, and still to this day is kind of why I do it.
- [05:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. Back then, were did you. I mean, I know when you're injured and, you know, to a point where it's chronic pain and that sort of thing, you might not be able to, like, have a job or whatever, but did you. Were you working at the time when all of this happened?
- [05:18]
B
In this particular time. And just to get a sense of my mobility, I could walk about the length of a grocery store aisle. So I could. I could do some stuff. But my dad gave me a camera because I had this little electric scooter thing and I could go around on that and take pictures. It was a low impact, creative thing I could do. I was in graduate school and part of that was I had a practicum thing I had to do, which was I was at a hospital and I was a volunteer there and. And they assigned me a cancer floor. And so my job, I would go around on my little electric scooter, knock on someone's door and say, hey, would you like a visit? Do you want to talk? And I think because I came in with some of my own problems, they would always say, well, what's wrong with you? And I would say, oh, tell them. And then I'd say, well, how are you doing? And they would say, well, do you really want to know? I'd say, yeah, I do. And because my job was only just to listen, but because I was neutral, I wasn't a family member, I wasn't a doctor, I wasn't a nurse. I wasn't. I was just part of this service this hospital provided. They would talk really, really honestly, and I became really close with a lot of those patients and friends. And when you spend time with people who are facing something like that and some of them who are dying, you cannot help but learn about life. And so that happened at the same time when I had that camera. And so for me, they were my first photography instructors. To this day, I credit them with my photo education because it was all about life and it was about savoring life. And that's really what photography is for me. It isn't, I don't know, a way to become heroic or a way to nail the shot or, I don't Know something else, but it's intrinsically, for me at least, connected to life and life source and life force and life energy and growth and change and all those kind of things.
- [07:15]
A
Yeah. Wow, that's like. I have the chills. I have the chills just thinking about it. And, and I was saying this earlier to you about how when I look through all of your work and just, you know, reading about everything you post and on your website and everything, it seems like your photography is not just client work, like it's a lifestyle.
- [07:33]
B
Like.
- [07:33]
A
Like it seems like you incorporate the things you love and your life into your work and what you do.
- [07:40]
B
Yeah. And that's very intentional. And thank you too. It's very intentional in the sense of. Well, I taught at a photo school, Brooks. There used to be this photography school that was kind of world renowned and all that. It's since died and it's gone. That's a whole nother story. But I taught there for about a decade and I would see students come through our program and then some go on to fame, I mean, be world famous photographers, incredibly successful. I'd see some succeed, some fail. And one of the things, there are others. But one of the main things I, I saw was that when students were aligned with core values, with who they are, with what matters most to them, that's relationally, you know, like you said lifestyle, but lifestyle in a bigger sense, I think lifestyle can be sort of a soft world. Like we think, oh, live an outdoor lifestyle or go have a picnic or something. But the deep stuff, right? What do you really, really value and what matters most to you and who do you want to be and how do you want to, I don't know, all that kind of stuff. So anyway, when I saw that alignment, I would see students just, man, it was like pouring gas on a fire. They would just accelerate so fast. And when I saw students do the opposite, they were more like a firework that would go up in a big boom and it was exciting and then they would burn out and die as far as their career goes. And so that, in a way, was a. Was a real education. Even though I was the faculty person, you're always learning, but that was a real education in, oh yeah, if you want to do this for longer than a year or two. And I'm sure, you know, Nikki, you probably know people, you'll say the wedding photographer, they, they start, they're so excited and it's this big thing. But then a couple years in, they're gone. All of a sudden.
- [09:28]
A
That was Me doesn't work.
- [09:29]
B
Okay, okay, okay.
- [09:30]
A
Yeah. 100% me. Like, this does not fit my lifestyle at all. Yeah.
- [09:35]
B
And I think that. And having that honesty to make those. Those turns in the road, so to speak, or to say, this doesn't fit my lifestyle, that's super important. I've done the same. And so anyway, over the years, all those little questions, yes, this, no, that, yes, that, has really steered what I do and how I do it, and also what I share. So there's photographs of people that I, you know, let's say I'm trying to think. Earlier on, I photographed this famous person and they were just mean. Mean. And the takeaway for me was, wow, I don't want to live like that. I don't want to be good at something but horrible at life. I want to figure out how to be both. And because I think we've met those people, maybe there are heroes and they're a really good, I don't know, bike rider or something. But then you realize, yeah, but they're not that great of a human. So it's amazing when you find both. So anyway, but those photographs I'll never share because I don't want to be associated with that energy, if that makes sense.
- [10:34]
A
Yes.
- [10:35]
B
And so to me, that's a small. No, you know, it's a small, like. Well, that was great. But no, I'm not going to post or share or talk about that. I mean, even though I'm talking about it now, but it's anonymous and it's relatively harmless, hopefully. But even though it's a, uh. Maybe that photo could have helped my career, it probably could have helped it in the wrong way. In the same way, maybe I'm making this up. But for your career, if you kept, I don't know, posting wedding photos, it wouldn't make sense because you're. You were turning or steering away from that. Right. And so finding the alignment.
- [11:08]
A
Oh, yeah. I firmly believe that people can feel the energy, you know, in the things we're posting, I guess. And if it's not genuine or authentic, they might not know why they're feeling it and not liking it. But there's something there. I don't know. I just feel like there's just something to it. And if what you're doing does not bring you joy or there's just something behind it that is causing negativity, it's gonna come through whether it's in your service that you're providing or just the feeling that someone gets when they're looking at Your stuff or reading about your stuff? I don't know. I think it's all aligned, like it's all connected.
- [11:46]
B
Yes, yes. And even it goes back to the ole idea that my mom used to make me chocolate chip cookies. And there were many times I would bike home from school, we lived on top of this big hill. I'd bike home and there would be fresh baked chocolate chip cookies. Amazing, right? I mean, my mom's an amazing person. That's a whole nother story. Cancer survivor, artist, all kinds of wonderful things. But not only that she would make me cookies, you know, but that same recipe, if a store made it, grocery store, and you bought the cookies, I think they would taste different. I think when something is made with love, you can't explain it, but you can feel it or experience. There's just something, I don't know, not to be too woo woo about it, but there's something different and I think that's true. Just maybe looking around my office right now, I have a little handmade thing on my desk, that handmade thing. I sense it, I feel it. And I think in photography, even though it's so, it's so mechanistic, I mean we use these little powerful machines and computers and all this kind of stuff. When I look at students work, I can tell if it's handmade, so to speak. I can tell if they're pouring some of their self into it. And the best photographers that I've had as students or friends or colleagues or whatever are the ones where they have that connection to their work and it's a reflection of who they are. And so the whole idea that you look at the photograph and you see the photographer, some people will say, well, you shouldn't see the photographer, right? You should just see the image. And I don't think so. I think great photography should really be some kind of a reflection of that person.
- [13:24]
A
Well, you know, there's two things that come to mind. Just I'm trying to like think of the people who are listening and what questions they might have around this. So two things come to mind. One, being, okay, so how do I infuse my life and my passion into my work? And two, how do I monetize it? You know, it's like, well, clearly you, you photographed surfers and just people outdoors and just like really cool brands. And how do you find those people to pay you? You know?
- [13:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is the question, right? How do you live the dream? In a way, because that's kind of what it is. Because you want to shoot what you love, Love what you shoot. That fulfills you, it fulfills other people. And then there's that energy flow of income is a important part of that, so you can actually continue to do what you love. So back to the first question. Remind me of that one. The first question was, how do you.
- [14:20]
A
And I don't expect you to like, know this answer fully. Obviously you've had your journey and your experience that might look completely different from someone else's, but just speaking from your experience. So how do you take, you know, your, your lifestyle and passion and turn that into work, I guess.
- [14:37]
B
Right, right. Yes. Okay, I love it. So let's start there, then maybe talk about the work side a little bit. Okay, in a second. So first it's. It's really important to have intention. What I found is if you don't decide, the world will decide for you. So that goes back to that. Those one images I didn't share, or what you shoot, how you shoot, where you shoot, why you shoot. So you really have to bring this intention and this. I would say if I have a workshop and I'm working with students, which I do, or I do, mentoring with people, one on one or whatever it is, we really look at, you know, what is your life, what is your stage in life? Who do you have access to and how can you then utilize that access in a way that aligns with what you care about most? So let me try to think of a couple of case studies. Well, I'll go to myself, for example. Early in my career, you know, I was teaching at this photography school, but originally I was teaching web design. I was not a photographer, but I wanted to be a photographer. So I would talk to my students all the time. It was back in the era, remember when you have to build websites and that was a big thing for photographers. So I was the website teacher. But I would talk to my students. I would say, hey, can you teach me how to use that camera? Whatever. And there's this one camera, 4x5 film camera, large format. And then I was like, oh, this is amazing. This one of my students taught me. And I said, but I don't know what to photograph. He's all, Chris, okay, okay. He's kind of shaking his head. He goes, orwig, you love surfing. You're amazing with people. You need to photograph surfers. And. And it was like, oh my gosh, you're right. And then I went and I decided, okay, I don't want to photograph my friends who are surfers. I Want to photograph my heroes, legends. I want to photograph the best surfers in the world. And then that literally changed my whole life and my career. And it was this simple, obvious suggestion from someone just looking from the outside in, if that makes sense. And so what I try to do with my students. So that's me. Is that same kind of thing. So, for example, I've. I had one person I was mentoring who was in finance, and he was in New York City, and he was making the transition to being a professional photographer, and he was looking to do editorial work. And he said, you know, I just don't feel like I have access to interesting people. And I said, well, let's talk about your work. And he worked at one of the major financial firms, and he had access to these three CEOs of, like, Schwab of Morgan Stanley and something else. And I was like, well, could you ever photograph the. Those people? And he's like, oh, yeah. They owe me so many favors. I say, okay, okay, so here's what you need to do. I could never in my wildest dreams capture a portrait of one of those people. But you could. You have access to them. So if you were to photograph them and say, I'm doing this project. I'm working with this mentor. It would be an honor to get a portrait of you. And then you. You maybe have three of those, then you could bring that to a publication and say, hey, I. I do work where I. And focusing on fascinating leaders, and I would love to do more work for your magazine or whatever his career would launch. Right? You know, and then another person maybe just completely different. They have teenage kids, and their kids play ice hockey, and they love ice hockey. They. They spend all their waking moments around ice hockey, and they're like, I don't know what to photograph. And I say, maybe you should photograph ice hockey. I said, well, could I do that? And I'm like, well, yeah, I think so. And they're like, well, actually, there's this famous ice hockey player giving a talk to my kids. Do you think I could photograph him? And I'm like, I think you could. And it's all about your approach. So the way I tend to do that, or maybe I'll pause there and then I'll tell you my strategy for it. But does that make sense or does that resonate?
- [18:14]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's like you said, the world will choose for you if you don't. It's not just sitting back and waiting for opportunities to knock on your door. You have to take action. It's like, yes. And even just like you talking to that one person who made a recommendation to you was Action. You talking about what you want to do or talking about.
- [18:33]
B
Yes.
- [18:33]
A
You know, it, it can be something as small as that that turns a light bulb on. I mean, there's just. You can't just expect things just are going to happen to you. You have to work at it as well. Right?
- [18:43]
B
You do, you do. And you have to. Like you said, you ask the questions. That's intention, that's action, that's movement. Or even one of the things I've done in my career, this was since graduate school, is I said, I'm not going to work on nights and weekends, which a lot of people think, well, that's. What, are you crazy? And I realized that, well, one, in grad school, I needed to do that because otherwise projects swell to the amount of time you give them. And then once I got into photography, I thought, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I could do this all day long. But that doesn't mean you're going to become better if you do it all day long. You need limits to really channel your creativity or. I want to be a family man. I mean, kids are so important to me. I have. I have dinner, you know, with my family. I would say at least four nights a week, if not more. And. But that priority shifts them what jobs I take, what jobs I don't take.
- [19:32]
A
Yeah.
- [19:33]
B
So it's the intention of how do I want to live and what do I want to shoot. And so maybe wrapping that back to the surfing thing, I intentionally have never surfed action sports for surfing because my friends that do that and colleagues that do that, they travel 10 months out of the year and they have an amazing lifestyle for them. They go to the most exotic places in the world with the most talented surfers in the world, and it's a dream. But for me, that would be hell because I wouldn't want to miss out on any of these years with my kids. And it's not that one's morally better or worse. It's all about, okay, what's my intent? What are my values? And again, to listener, same thing. What do you value and what do you want to do and what really matters? And then bringing that intent and then exploring how photography can fit into that and then maybe even amplify it.
- [20:28]
A
Yeah, quick.
- [20:29]
B
For example, was I started photographing these famous surfers, but then I also photographed people who are past world champions because I wanted to see, how do you what do you. It's. It's kind of easy to be successful. Right. There isn't a ton of wisdom except handling success wells, but then handling failure well is even more interesting. And what I realized I was doing is I was searching for older mentors. And so even that I was being intentional about, okay, this is a little mentor session. This person doesn't know it, but the questions I'm asking them, oh, how did you transition that? Or what do you do? Or how do you deal with that? Yeah, you know, I haven't won a contest in 22 years. What's that like? Well, you know, it's interesting because people expect me to succeed, but that's not my. What I do in life anyway. You know, you get the idea. So it's helped me in my own career navigate that.
- [21:19]
A
Yeah, yeah. You know, I think for people listening, it's like, all right, of course, sometimes people don't know exactly what they want to do, but if you can really be realistic about, like you said, working hours, I mean, that's a huge thing. That was one of the many, many reasons why I stopped doing weddings. Because I didn't have children yet. When I started being a wedding photographer, when I had my first son and I had to shoot my first, like 12 hour wedding, he was three months old and I was like, oh, hell no. Like, I am not doing this at all. And so I transitioned into personal branding. One, because I love photographing other entrepreneurs and helping them to grow their business. To me, that's incredibly important. But also because I don't have to work nights and weekends. It's just an easy genre to only work during regular weekend working hours. I get to be home with my kids, you know, in the evenings and the weekends. It's just, it's wonderful. And I just think it's important for people to really be realistic about what their lifestyle is like, because this is, yes, it is something that you love, but it is also a career. It is a job. And you can burn out really, really fast if you're not, one, doing something you're passionate about, and two, if it doesn't fit into the type of schedule that works for you.
- [22:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. And if it doesn't amplify you. I'm hearing you talk about the personal branding stuff and how what I imagine, I'm kind of picturing you in one of those shoots. The energy that person is bringing to the shoot and all their energy, they're bringing into the world and creativity and entrepreneurship and all that, that's exciting to you and kind of lighting a fire, so to speak. And my friend who was in finance, working in that finance world and blending finance and photography, was really exciting to him. To me, that sounds horrible, but maybe for me, I like photographing yoga instructors and wellness and athletes and artists and poets. And I have this whole list of. And I've created that really early on. Who are the types of people that I want to photograph? Because that's who I want to learn from, that's who I want to be around. That's the energy I want to experience. And one of the ways you can do that, of course, is by saying, these are the things I'm interested in, but what career counselors will do. And I have a friend who's a career counselor at our local college. I asked her, I said, how do you help all these kids? Because I have worked with a lot of people too, and they're often seeking career advice. And she said, well, the first question I asked them is, what don't you want to do? Because everyone comes into my office and says, I don't know what I want to do. And so I say, well, what don't you want to do? And they'll often say things like, I don't want to work indoors. And they say, okay, this is amazing. This limits 80% of the jobs that exist in the world, you know. And we can now focus on outdoor work, right? Or, you know, something that affords you the ability to be outdoors. And then we can look at 10 different areas of that or whatever the things are. But to start really thinking about the no's, what are the no's? Like, you do not want to do this kind of work. And then also, of course, have your yeses. And I think that intention can help to craft a little bit of this current or this direction of what you do. And even the. What is it? The excitement you have for will give shape to it. I'm trying to think of how to explain that.
- [24:45]
A
Well, it seems like one of the things that you do is really try to build connection with people. And if you've got a similar energy or similar interest or whatever, it's so easy to connect. I love photographing entrepreneurs because I could brainstorm about people growing and building their businesses all day long. I love it. I love watching people just like grow and succeed, especially as entrepreneurs where they can like, design the life of their their own that they really love. And so to me, photographing entrepreneurs is awesome to me. Cause I know how to connect and help and all of that. So I Don't know. I feel like maybe a lot of it is just that connection with people.
- [25:25]
B
Yes. Yeah. And the cool thing is we all connect with different people in different stages of our lives. And that's what makes portraiture so interesting. I think portraiture is the most inclusive form or genre of photography, meaning fashion photography, you kind of need to look, you need certain clothes, food photography, you need food. Architecture, certain kind of architecture, texture. But portraiture, you need a human. It's about humanity. And we as humans, I think if we can look really deep into other people and see the thread which connects us all, whether that, in your case is branding and entrepreneurship and all this kind of stuff, whatever that is, that can be incredibly enlivening. And so if there's that gift kind of experienced in the shoot, I think the viewer has a greater chance of experiencing that gift, that energy, that something in the final photograph. Because to get someone to feel something from an image, at least for me, there's a lot of effort and intent required because they're not there. Right. So you're there, you're having this connection. It's amazing. And so there needs to be enough of that that it lingers and that it lasts. And they can feel it and they can't quite pinpoint it, but they know there's something there.
- [26:38]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So, okay, now my second question is, how do you monetize something like this? People are like, I have to pay the bills. How do I. How do I turn this into something that is financially sustainable?
- [26:53]
B
Yeah. So my approach to that, which is a wonderful question, of course, and I think part of that. The backdrop of that is some people will say they're worried about charging or how much do I charge? Or money can complicate things. And I would say this is just energy. This is. You know, again, I live in this town where beaches, mountains and islands and all these beautiful things. But let's say someone likes going surfing out at the Channel islands. It's about 20 miles from here. You need a boat. You need fuel for. The boat.
- [27:23]
A
Here is Santa Barbara.
- [27:24]
B
Right.
- [27:25]
A
I just want to make sure.
- [27:25]
B
Santa Barbara. Yes. Yeah. Santa Barbara, California. But the point is, okay, yeah, great. You love surfing out there, but you need fuel and you need a boat, and that's expensive. And so if you can charge your buddies, if they can pitch in, you can do more of those trips. Right. So money is just this energy that allows you to do more of what you love. And so I like people to think about that and think of it as just a wonderful Beautiful thing. You can be thankful for it. It's exciting. It's. It's allowing you to make a difference in the world and create your great work. So have. Mindset's really important. We all know that. But I just have to say that from the get go. And then the second part is exploring ways to find. Photographing people, if that's what you do, or whatever it is, in a way that those images are needed. So, for example, let's say you have a friend that's a librarian, and I'm just thinking of a couple of my friends, and I have a friend that's a firefighter, and I have a friend that owns a shoe company, this kind of famous shoe company. So I could photograph the librarian, and that could be used for the little local town paper, the firefighter, maybe the regional. Some kind of regional publication highlighting workers, you know, who have contributed, done wonderful things. But then the shoe. The shoe guy, that. And this is true. Photographs of him have been an Esquire magazine or whatever, because there's a greater need for that because there's commerce connected to what he does that for some reason people want to write articles about. Right. And again, these examples aren't perfect. But I'm just trying to. I'm trying, I'm trying, Nick.
- [29:05]
A
No, that's okay. You're doing great. Yeah.
- [29:07]
B
But the point is, is exploit. Trying to find areas where there's a need for photographs to be used. Because what a lot of my students will do is they'll photograph someone. I'm like, that's great, but no one's ever going to need that picture. And of course, it's nice. Maybe they're doing ballet photographs and it's for their local ballet dancer because their daughter's in ballet and it's a beautiful ballet photograph. And they're like, well, how can I make a career out of this? I say, well, we live close to Los Angeles. Los Angeles has two ballet companies. I know a bunch of the dancers there. They need images because they have to feed the gram. They need them regularly, consistently, because that ensures that they still have a spot with that dance company. The dance company also needs it for their Instagram. So does the sponsors that each of those dancers have. So if you say, hey, this is what I do, and I would love to do a shoot with you, and here's what I would like it to do. And here's, you know, I could create this and you'd be welcome to use the images. And why am I doing this? I'm trying to Build my portfolio and get out there. And you go and do that shot, the same shot, maybe the same thing you did of with your daughter or her friend. And now it's with a professional ballerina who's an influencer. And then all of a sudden you're working photographer, because then you get one, then you get another, then you do all these others. And of course you would have to have the alignment that this is something you're interested in. You're not just. I heard one photographer say, throw a ballerina in the shot and it'll be a good photograph. And I just thought, man, I could not disagree more. But that's a whole nother.
- [30:37]
A
Not quite. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:39]
B
And maybe it was a joke, I don't know. But it always just that. Always.
- [30:43]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50 off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50 off of a membership. We really rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there.
- [31:29]
B
My take on photography, there's some people who say you want more interesting photographs, stand in front of more interesting things. I disagree wholeheartedly. I think if you want more interesting photographs, you have to become a more interesting person. You have to become more interested in the subjects. You have to look deeper and it's really more about you. It's less about subjects. So anyway, side note on all that, but that whole point, you kind of get the idea. And if someone's saying, well, I don't live near ballerinas or whatever, there always are influencers in every town, in every nook and cranny of the world, or there always are, there's people somewhere I'm trying to think of. I'm just going to go with you, Nikki. I know your family and your boys, let's say they're in the bmx. There's some local kid who's this amazing BMX person. And if someone was into that, they could photograph that and connect with that whole industry or, or if it was new businesses, certain type of new businesses, because those new businesses, as they grow, they need photography when they're young and then when they're a little bit bigger and then a little bit bigger. So basically it's finding where your passion meets need. And too often photographers, at least my students and myself included, they think, oh wow, this is great, I shoot it. But then there's kind of nowhere to go with it afterwards because sure, it's nice and it's neat and it's beautiful and it's meaningful and that's all great. But if you want to kind of convert passion to profit, you have to explore where the image has some kind of need and then do that organically. Like I was saying, say with the ballet thing, and then you, maybe you could branch out into doing some editorial work, you could do some commercial work from that and then you could work, do some work with developing other things and then your whole career started, launched and then you're, they have a friend who's an actor, then you get into acting, you get the gist, you know, that's how it organically grows. So I always say, organic growth, explore where there's need and keep it natural, keep it, let it be a flow. What doesn't tend to work is when someone tries to jump to the top of the line and says, hey, LA Ballet company, will you hire me? And they, they say, what? Who are you? Why? No, I buy. They don't even respond right. And then everyone's so discouraged, oh, I can't get any work and da, da, da. And you have to do the work that you want to get. You have to, you have to show people what that is. And so that's, that's where I think you do that with the intent, the alignment first and foremost and then exploring areas that you feel like could be relevant. And I know I'm kind of going on this a little bit more, but let me do maybe a little bit more because it's a both hand approach. I'll have friends who, let's say they're thinking of one friend who does a lot of real estate photography, which is, it's not high end, it's not an architectural Digest or something. It's more, I'm selling my home. They come in, they shoot stuff and then they leave. And he's trying to branch off into other kinds of photography, but he's connected to this real estate world. So I'm like, you're connected to who? Realtors. Oh, you're right. Realtors always need photographs. Oh, good point. You're also accessing. I live in, you know, where I live is these amazing homes. He's photographing these multimillion dollar homes so you have access to these design elements. Interior designers who've done work. All you have to do is say, hey, who is interior designer for this project? Oh, blah, blah, blah. You shoot that image, tag that person, share it with them, say, I really, you're. The way you work with color and texture and textiles in this home was inspiring to me. It would be an honor to work more with you. Here's one of my images. And then all of a sudden that person who hasn't seen that photograph or their home for 10 years, they can share that on their Instagram, which boosts their business. And then obviously it becomes needed. And all of a sudden, do you have this career and you can see how it could keep going. You could, you could photograph the lamps, you could photograph the couches, the carpets, the, you know, the, occasionally they'll meet the homeowners and these homeowners are, do some fascinating thing and you just say, hey, I'm, I'm doing work, you know, where I'm photographing people and building my portfolio. And it's so fascinating how you run this business. Could I ever capture a portrait of, you know, just keep it organic and, and go with it.
- [35:58]
A
So I mean, it's almost like making sure not to skip the basics. You need to build your portfolio and build it with intention. And it's not just having someone come in and sit for you. You know, if you're trying to, you know, do something outside of studio work or whatever, you know, if you're trying to like, infuse your passion and that sort of thing, it's looking at it as how can I build my portfolio so that in the future I, one, have work to show. And two, it's networking. It's like you can't skip the networking and the portfolio building. You can't just expect that now, you know, the top Realtor in Santa Barbara is going to want you to do their headshots when they have no idea who you are. You know what I mean? It's like taking everything we learned about the basic steps of getting your business going, but just applying it in a different environment or in a different way.
- [36:46]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And using this both and approach. What I mean by that is I'll do some jobs which are more fashion oriented and that isn't my big passion. My big passion is portraiture and so if I'm on a fashion shoot, I will always shoot portraits. There will always be a moment where I will say, hey, okay, that was great. Can I capture an image that's more a portrait that maybe your partner or your mom. It's something, you know, let's say we talked about, I know something about their life. I say, yeah, a portrait your mom would really want. Love. That's about. It's deep and soulful, and it's maybe about you overcoming all these obstacles you've overcome in your life. And. And they say, oh, yeah, okay, great. And I take a little quiet moment and I capture that portrait, and people will say, how did you get that image? I thought this was just some random model we were working with. And I said, yeah, models are deep people. You just gotta ask. You just have to pause. You have to, you know, the both. And what I mean by that is, yes, do the work for the client, but then also do the work for yourself. Same thing with the realtor person. Yes, do really good, you know, architectural work for that. But then also explore what's interesting to you in this context or the person who. Kids do hockey, you know, explore doing, you know, something connected, that or whatever your. Your world is, and sort of look at your world as if you were a stranger and just say, well, what do you have access to that other people don't? What is interesting to you? What kind of values align with you within that? And then in regards to portfolio building, I think you're really right in that sense. But thinking about it, perhaps more than a portfolio. And what I mean by that is portfolio is a powerful tool, collection of images. They're cohesive, they belong together, they tell an important story and all of that. I think sometimes they think some people maybe think of that in the end of itself, like, here is my portfolio. But really think of it is more of. Back to our earlier conversation. You're building a lifestyle. You're building a. You're building momentum. You're building, you know, back to the. The kid that wants to go surfing at the islands. This is allowing you to. This is fuel for your boat so you can get out there. This is. It's like a springboard. It's not an end. It's not a doorstop. Does that make sense?
- [39:02]
A
Yep.
- [39:03]
B
This is planting a tree. I have two tree houses in my backyard I'm looking at right now. You are planting a living, breathing tree. And it's going to get big and amazing. It's going to provide shade when it's hot. There May be going to be fruit on the tree. Maybe your kids will climb it. I mean, this is so cool. It's not. I'm building a portfolio. Does that make sense?
- [39:23]
A
Yeah. Yep.
- [39:24]
B
And that's when photography gets interesting. To me, at least.
- [39:28]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to shift gears a little bit. I know you have a course on the portrait master store for both Lightroom and Photoshop. And when I look at your work, it's very vibrant and crisp and just so beautifully done. And I'm curious to hear one, how you light your subjects in general and just like the type of equipment you use. And two, and I know that we can't really, like, show your editing and photo, you know, your Photoshop process on a podcast, but I'm just interested in hearing a little bit more about how, you know, what level you take it as far as editing. So let's start with your lighting and your gear in general.
- [40:06]
B
Yeah. And I think part of that, maybe stepping backwards just for a quick second, if that's okay, is I think the whole thing, the whole process is art, start to finish. I think packing your bag, showing up, the way you smile, the way you shake hands, the way you talk to someone, capture the image and then bring it back and your mindset and the intent that you bring at the computer. And I'll tell a quick, goofy story, but this was years ago, but I received this call. It was an unknown number, and I answered it. I don't know why, but I'm glad I did. And on the other end of the line, the person said, with an accent, which I'm horrible at, but said, hello, this is Seal. Is this Chris? And I said, yes. And he said, hey, Chris, I was wondering if you could come to my home in Beverly Hills and teach me Lightroom.
- [40:52]
A
And I said, seal, the musician Seal?
- [40:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so fortunately, yeah, fortunately, I didn't say, hi, Seal, this is Flamingo or something, but. And so I went to his home there in Beverly Hills, and it was quite an experience. And when I pulled into his gated house and, you know, just like you would picture, right? There's his Ferrari and next to it is a minivan. And I just said, what came to mind? I said, oh, what's the story with the. You know, he's talking about his Ferrari or whatever. And I was like, what's the story at the minivan? He's like, well, how else would I get my kids to school? And I was like, oh, right, I guess you can't take them in a two seater Ferrari, Whatever. But anyway, the point of this whole conversation is we sat down at the computer. He's actually a really good photographer. He shoots film and digital. We were talking about the differences, and one of the things he said is that when I shoot digital, I open up the image and I look for the mistake. And then when I shoot with film, I embrace the flaw. And I thought, okay, that's fascinating. And it has less to do with film. Digital, it has more to do with our intent. Too often, I think we get to post production, we get to that moment, and we have baggage. We bring some baggage. Might be, oh, my gosh, I got to get through these images. There's so many. Right. Or it might be excitement. Oh, my gosh, this is exciting. I get to look through them or whatever it is. But I think trying to be mindful about the intent before you begin is incredibly helpful. And so what my intent is, say in Lightroom, and I know we're talking about lighting, but I'll get to that. I'll get to that. Is I'm usually disappointed when I look at my photographs. Does this ever happen to you?
- [42:33]
A
All the time.
- [42:34]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [42:35]
A
I'm not alone, and you are not alone. No.
- [42:37]
B
Yeah. I've even cried. I've even cried. I've looked at. I just think, oh, my gosh. Or I get embarrassed. I think, oh, my gosh. If someone was looking over my shoulder right now, I cannot believe, like, I took that horrible of a photograph and then another one and another one and another one. So knowing that, I just have to say, you know what? I need to be kind to myself and just let these images sort of be what they are. And that's my first pass, because it's not pretty. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those photographers that nails it right every shot. And then using this tool to kind of explore what's there versus to fix smash, you know, crush any problems or something. And I think bringing that kind of intent to it and then ultimately using these tools as part of that craft and process to create something that's meaningful. So much so that when someone looks at an image, they never say, wow, you're good at Lightroom or Photoshop. Rather, they say, that image really moved me or made me think. Or I had someone at Farmers Farmers Market this last weekend stop me, and she came up to me, and this is a great compliment. So this is one of those. I am going to tell a, you know, positive story about myself, but there's plenty of negative stories I could tell. But is it okay If I tell. Positive.
- [43:59]
A
Oh, my gosh, please. Of course.
- [44:00]
B
You're.
- [44:01]
A
You're the. We want to know all about you. You're the guest.
- [44:03]
B
I know, I know. But, you know, sometimes it's kind of obnoxious.
- [44:06]
A
But you are not obnoxious. So we're all.
- [44:08]
B
Okay, well, tell us, what is this intent? So she came up to me and just said, hey, are you Chris or Wig? And I said, yes, I follow you on Instagram, and this is my daughter, Elsie. And we were talking and. And she said, I've seen you around town. I've always wanted to say hi. And I just wanted to say hi. And your work really inspires me because it's not just about someone's appearance, but it's about their soul. And I got to tell you, I got into photography because my brother died, and six months before he died, I gave him your book. And. And now I have all of. He was a photographer, too. Now I have all of his images, and I'm trying to learn how to work with them. And it was just this. It was so meaningful. Right, right.
- [44:47]
A
Wow.
- [44:48]
B
And I forget now I'm kind of got sidetracked with all of that because motion, I guess there, but because it, you know, just seeing her talk about this and that, she was, you know, willing enough to share about that significant of a loss at Farmer's Market downtown with all these people around, and that the photography afforded that moment for she and I to have that connection. And what she didn't say was, I looked at your images and I love how you made it look like liquid fire and put an elephant in the tree. And you're really good at Photoshop or something, you know, and again, I'm exaggerating there, but back to the Photoshop post processing and the lighting. And I think, you know, the great photographers, you know, I look at Sue's work and I know a lot of people obsess over her lighting and everything, and it is amazing. And I do want to learn that from her one day, and I told her that, but that's a whole nother story. But really, it's not about that. It's about what's left over after all that said and done. And it's this feeling and it's moving and causes you to pause. And I love the Bob Dylan definition of art. He says, the purpose of art is to stop time. And I think her work does that. It just requires you to pause. You have to say, oh, my gosh. And what you want to do, I think you want to Say, I mean back to SEO, you want to say, oh, what lighting did she use and where was that placed and what backdrop? And you know, you kind of get all like technical and everything, which is important, but more so it's not enough. And in post production, it's not enough to know sliders. I don't think sliders will make the magic. You have to bring that intent, which starts, like I said, way back, packing your bags, you know, meeting the person, working images and then post production. Is that fair?
- [46:38]
A
Yes. And people want to know what you shoot with. They want to know. I know they're going to be like, but what does he shoot?
- [46:46]
B
But what is it? But what is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, I shoot with assortment of things, everything from iPhone. I'm just looking at my desk now, my iPhone's sitting there. Hasselblad for a film camera, old film camera. And then I'm a Sony artisan of imagery, which is amazing to be an ambassador for them. So in that case, I'm just going to do a quick little mini gear list. But Sony A1, 2, Sony A7R4, Sony A7C. The out of those cameras, the most affordable ones, the A7C and that one paired with a 50 millimeter lens is the image I created that I've gotten the most likes and it's sold for the most amount of money, which is so funny. But it just goes to show you, it's not always the biggest gear. But then lenses. I have a whole slew of lenses, but I really gravitate towards 85, 50 if I need to 24 to 70 to give me that range. But I like lenses that give me the ability to have to work close enough to talk to the subject. 7200 is amazing to have that lens and I often bring it on shoots, but I don't use it enough because I feel like I'm. I have to raise my voice and say, okay, what if you stand over there and it's just kind of the finding that sweet spot. But I think of all that gear stuff and I love gear and gear, powerful, amazing, wonderful, and so grateful for it. And maybe that's it is coming to it with that sense of gratitude, that intent. And so if I grab a camera, if my camera breaks and I have to borrow a friend's and it's not the latest and greatest or what I would want just to be grateful rather than to be, oh, if only I had this, or if only I brought that other lens or poor old me or whatever. So that's that side. And then lighting for external lights, I use Profoto B10s because they're so simple and easy and beautiful and wonderful and, and all of that. And absolutely love the opportunity to, to work with that. And that's been a real growth for me over the last number of years. The majority of my work is natural light, available light, but then more and more of it's working with external lights too.
- [48:52]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. I'm not super techy. Like, I finally just upgraded my camera after I think six years or something. Like I'm. I don't have the biggest, the best life.
- [49:03]
B
No, I'm just, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
- [49:05]
A
I can tell you. No, trust me, I know you're kidding. Like, like my 85 is just. It's the Canon 1.8, you know, I'm not like trying to. I just don't. I don't know. You just don't need the best. I mean, you need decent if you're going to be, you know, charging professional prices, I guess.
- [49:21]
B
Yeah, you don't. I don't even think prices have anything to do with it. I think finding the gear, that resonates with you. So let's go to instruments because, because I talk about gear a lot with my students in my workshops and stuff because it comes up, you know, and I'll have my whole suite of gear. And you know, when you see it at all, it's impressive and it's, it's sexy and it's, you know, it's, it's amazing. Right? But if we just compare it, say to guitars for, for a moment, there are guitars you could, you can spend a lot of money for, but they might not be the right kind of guitar for you. So I'm just going to do a goofy analogy. For me, it would be an acoustic wooden guitar that is at least 15 or 20 years old. That's what would resonate with my soul and that's what I would love to play. If someone gave me a bright red electric guitar that had all these cutouts and it looked like Metallica would play it. That guitar maybe is five times more expensive than my little old acoustic guitar, but it's the wrong one for me. So technically that guitar is better than mine, but it's a mismatch. Does that make sense?
- [50:23]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [50:24]
B
I think with gear, with people just finding what the right match is and also that has to do with what the right match is at your stage in life. So if you have a lot of disposable income and you can afford big expensive gear. Okay, well then maybe at this stage in life that's the right thing to do. But if you can't at this stage in life, then maybe this other kind of kit or setup is right to do. Or if it's really invigorating to you to get the new lens every time it's released, maybe that's something you know is an important part of your rhythm. But if you know that isn't important part of your rhythm, don't do it. So anyway, basically it's fine tuned to who you are and that that's what makes it work and that it's not necessarily one's better than the other. It really depends on the person.
- [51:14]
A
Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. And I should say I'm sure there are photographers out there who can shoot on an iPhone and sell their work. I mean, I really shouldn't say that you have to have the professional, but you do, I believe, have to know how to properly light someone, even if it is with just natural light. You have to know how to interact with people and what you're doing. I mean, it's not that we have to be experts, but we have to.
- [51:41]
B
Know what you do. You have to be an expert in humanity and craft at the same time. So, yes, connecting and listening and noticing and I, I, I read books on nonverbal communication all the time and I am constantly exploring how to connect with people every time I'm in a line somewhere and talking with them and asking questions and what questions are safe and what questions are leading and good and helpful and meaningful and, and then the light too. I mean, how do you work with light in a way that helps convey the story you want to tell and the, the way you want to tell it? And so I think natural light, this, people will disagree with me. I think it's actually harder than studio light.
- [52:21]
A
Yeah, agree.
- [52:23]
B
Because you the, the subtlety of it and the shifting and the changing and all those things I'm sure. Like weddings, you know, I think wedding photography is some of the hardest photography in the world because of that, that reason alone. But yeah, really, really learning that and really spending the time to explore how to do that. And I think one of the ways that you can get better at all of those things is to photograph people that align with your own values. So for example, I'm going to take two students. Student A, student B, student A says I want to get better. So they hire a model and they take pictures of a pretty model. And you have pretty pictures and say, okay, those are great. Student B photographs her grandfather, who is the most important person in her life. And he's near the end of his life and he's never been photographed before in his life. And this picture is the most meaningful picture she's ever taken, ever. That person is going to grow so much more because there's alignment with who she is. It doesn't matter what camera was used, but it's, it's when there's alignment, when you care, it requires that you step up your game and it requires that you pay attention to the nuances of non verbals and of light and of craft. And it makes sure you know when you're, at least for me, when my hands are trembling because I'm photographing someone I admire deeply or someone famous or something, I'm double checking my ISO. I am, I am so in the moment. It's crazy. I know nothing else but this moment. And I think that kind of thing can really help us to grow versus I do think practice is good and all that kind of stuff. But I mean, maybe it's equivalent. I'm going to go surfing here for a second because I live in a little surf town. I love that when we surf we usually have a leash on our ankle. And so what that means is when you fall, this leash connects you to your surfboard and it goes behind you maybe six feet and then you pull it back in and you paddle back out. But if you want to become a really good surfer, you surf without a leash and it is so hard to do that because if you fall, your board's going to go all the way in and maybe on the rocks. And so you have to be so in tune and you can't just sort of kick out or sort of fall or sort of something or sort of catch a wave or kind of not catch a wave or you. Because a surfboard will cost a thousand bucks, right? And if it's messed up, it's a bummer to repair it. It's a big deal. So anyway, the whole point of that is. Yes, back to your comment. Craft. You gotta learn it. You gotta learn it really, really well. And then I encourage people to try to learn it in a way that aligns with who they are.
- [54:53]
A
Yeah, that's a great analogy. A great analogy. It's amazing how photography really can, just like you said, it can connect you with so many people and connect you with your passion and tell stories and there's just so many AM positive things about doing what we do. And it's really refreshing to just see how you've infused it all into your life. And I have a feeling it's going to inspire a lot of people who maybe don't know who you are yet. I'm sure it already has inspired many, many people. So, yeah, this is exciting.
- [55:28]
B
Yeah. And thank you. And the only thing I would add to it, as you were talking, I was going back to my story in the beginning is to explore how photography can be a means of healing. And I think every encounter, every photographic encounter I've had has been, has given me a chance to heal, grow, change, learn, discover. And sometimes there are these little surprises that you didn't anticipate, but just to be open to that and to be exploring, you know, what is it that I can learn from this person. So I'll tell one mini story with that. I was super excited this was a while back to photograph Kelly slater, who's an 11 time world champion surfer. And just pretend you love surfing Nikki, and you're like, wow, trust me, my.
- [56:13]
A
Teenage heartthrob was Kelly Slater. So.
- [56:15]
B
Okay, okay, okay, great. So you know the name? You know the name. Yes. And so I'm excited to photograph him. I know I can't photograph him as a surfer, as an icon. I need to photograph him as a human. And so I need to get to know him. And so that's a whole process. But anyway, eventually get there. And one of the things he said to me, he said, you know, Chris, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that for a lot of my life I confused the idea of Kelly Slater with the person of Kelly Slater. And because of that I made a lot of mistakes. He talked about some of those and then he said, but at the same time, I have to play the idea of Kelly Slater because my name are on all these products that people sell and if they don't sell them, well, I know one guy who has a baby at home and he needs to sell a lot of these products so he can, can pay, pick food on the table. And so I need to play to that role. So anyway, whole point of it is we're talking about identity and identity of, of who we are, I and I. My instant thought was, oh, that was like junior high, right? Like the idea of you versus who you really are. And I think celebrities just have a deeper experience of that that continues on for more time because they have this public Persona, but then they have the internal. But at the same time, I've come to believe celebrities and situations like this they're very relatable because we have the same experience. It's just not quite as public or as amplified, right? So both of us, we have certain ways we act and certain ways we project and certain ways we do things. And so what the lesson or the wisdom learned, for me, I feel like at that time, the universe was saying, hey, Chris, focus less on the idea, view, and focus more on you being you. And who knew that would come from Kelly Slater, right? You know, like, oh, I'm gonna go learn one of my most important life lessons from, you know, this. This person. And I could. I could tell you hundreds of lessons like that. But the thing I would say is, with this is, is explore how photography can give you a sense to obviously save her life. To be present, to be engaged, to notice, to see, to live. My dog just groaned in the background, which is funny. I don't know if you could hear that. But all of those things, but also to heal and explore how we can use all these encounters with people. And this great community of photographers that we have is this amazing community and source of wisdom. And this community, what I think they want, what we want for each other, is to grow and heal and change and become better versions of ourselves. So this isn't just about pretty pictures. This really, really is about life. And being able to photograph people in particular is really about this unique chance to connect with others in this deep, magical way. And if we can start to infuse that into what we do when it comes to picking out gear and buying gear, even to working with lighting, to working with Photoshop, to working with Lightroom, whatever it is, that's when I think it starts to become really interesting.
- [59:20]
A
You're so wise, Chris Orwig.
- [59:21]
B
Oh, that's not. I should record that, or I should get that clip from you and play that for my teenage daughters. They would laugh and laugh and laugh.
- [59:33]
A
I will say the person who came up to you at the market, I'm sure gave you a lot of street cred that you got recognized from Instagrams for your teenagers.
- [59:41]
B
So, no, no, they just rolled their eyes with. Of that. They, you know, which is so fun, too. I. And. And that's what I want them to do. Like, you'll love this story. One of my daughter's friends said to her, said, oh, it's so cool that your dad's a photographer. And she goes, oh, he's not one of those cool kind of photographers.
- [60:00]
A
Can't give dad the credit. Just can't do it.
- [60:03]
B
Can't do it. But I, I thought, I love that. I, because I'm not, I'm not an Instagram photographer. And that's what I think she was referring to. You know, I'm, I'm more of a thoughtful, kind, you know, soulful kind of photographer. That's what I try to do. And, and I don't want with my kids too. I don't want them to think I'm something I'm not. Back to the Kelly Slater thing, you know. And they also helped me in my photography once I was photographing my daughter Annie, she got her braces off and she was like, dad, will you take some pictures of me? And I was like, sure. It's like I was so excited, you know, My gosh, my daughter's asking me to take photos. You know, this doesn't happen very often. And I started taking pictures. She's like, dad, you can't take pictures. Like it's a photo shoot. You have to make it look like this is like casual. And I thought, wow, this actually true. I think I sometimes overdo it and I need to work on creating more of these candid vibe kind of feeling photos. And I'm not good at that. And so here my, here was my teenage daughter giving me this wisdom. Okay, so one about photography, but then two about life. Like sometimes I'm taking this all too seriously. And of course because to me, you know, photography and life always relate. And so anyway, the whole point of that is that was a little healing moment, you know. Great. And even my daughter's comment to her friend, it was probably bad for my ego, but good for my soul, you know?
- [61:29]
A
Yeah, it's funny you say that because like I'd mentioned to you, my best friend who passed away a couple years ago and I took her 14 year old daughter on a girls trip to Austin and I wanted to take some of her pictures and I didn't bring my camera camera with me. It wasn't about work or, you know, whatever. We just, I was using my, my phone and she's like, aunt Nikki, like, don't do it like that, like. And granted she has 14, but she's just like rolling her eyes at me and I'm like looking at her like I'm thinking in my head, I've got what, two and a half years to practice to do photos how she wants me to for her senior pictures. Like, I've got to learn how to do these.
- [61:59]
B
Like, you gotta get this figured out.
- [62:00]
A
Like. Cause she is very like, you're right. They teach us and we learn and And I do. I get in this portrait mode where it's like, okay, because my clients all want me to pose them. They want me to, but that's not always what it's about. I think you miss the moments. You know, if you're always posing all the time.
- [62:20]
B
Yes. Yeah. And if it looks too posed, then let's say for that younger generation too, then it loses some authenticity to it, even though what they're doing is still inauthentic. Because really, a pose isn't authentic. I mean, let's face it, it's not.
- [62:33]
A
Not.
- [62:34]
B
Someone didn't just walk up and do that, helping them. We're crafting something. And so, yeah, and I think just to be open to that. And I also think, you know, I have their opposite experiences where, you know, maybe with. With someone, I'm. I'm too casual, need to. To slow down or. I guess what. What I try to do is a lot of mirroring when I'm working with subjects, you know, so like, mirror their rhythm, their rate of speech, their. Their tone, their vibe. Or is it. But, you know, if they're really formal, then I tune up to be a little more formal. If they're really informal. Anyway, the whole point is learning, growing, and who knows where this will come from. But I think if we can remember that, and I guess why I'm going here, too. We talked about mastery of light and gear and portfolio, but also remembering, heck, this whole thing. I mean, like, who cares about a portfolio when you're dead and gone, right? I mean, that's great. And that'll be, you know, maybe someone will flip through it, maybe not, you know, but people will really care who you were as a human, how you lived, how we affected them. And we've heard that a lot. We all know that. But just to keep it in mind in our craft, because the more I think we can do that, what happens, little kind of secret mission is your photographs become amazing. And I've seen it happen with my students. And so it is a good path to get there. Not to use it to get there, of course, but, you know, you grow, clients win, you win, the world wins. And I mean, shoot. It's amazing.
- [64:07]
A
Yeah. Well, on that note, we're out of time, but, Chris, where can people find you online?
- [64:13]
B
Yeah, just my name. If someone were to do a search for that. Chris. And then Orwig is O R W I G. And then also, as you mentioned, I have those courses if you want to learn more about Photoshop and Lightroom. I try to teach from A really accessible, easy to follow way. Keep it really down to earth. But also I've done a ton of work for Adobe and Google, all these places, so I have a lot of expertise that I bring, but I try to distill that down into little parts that are enjoyable and fun. So check those out too.
- [64:46]
A
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you again. Thank you for this great conversation and for sharing everything and, and yeah, this is exciting. I'm excited to hear where people, you know, how people utilize everything that you've taught and just, yeah, I think you're going to inspire a lot of people. So thank you.
- [65:04]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And thank you, Nikki. Thank you for indulging me and asking fun questions and I look forward to you and I connecting more. The best thing about photography and all these things we do, it's the people, right? And so it's fun to have this new connection.
- [65:18]
A
I was just saying that on my Instagram the other day. Just someone who I was with at WPPI sent me some photos that she'd taken on her film camera. And I was looking at the people in the photo. I was like, I just have met the coolest people in this industry. And I posted and I was like, I just want to thank like all of the people I've met in this, in this industry. The lifelong friendships I've made have been. I just cherish, I've learned so much. And to grow and laugh with all these people is just incredible.
- [65:44]
B
It really is. It really is. And that's really the gift. And I think it's fun that we're taking a moment to remember that and to remember that even for people who are maybe aspiring and looking to explore how do I do more of this or I want to leave my job. And maybe, you know, all those things is that this is a really cool path and it's really worthwhile. One, being creative. I mean, of course, amazing images, all that kind of stuff, but even more, the people there are just phenomenal people. And I would agree with you as well. Some of my dearest and closest friends, most significant relationships are because of the camera. And that's unbelievable. So I think anyone out there who's listening, who's kind of thinking, okay, this is cool and okay, I can see perhaps how this path, keep going, keep doing, is worthwhile and the end game, so to speak, I mean, if there is one, is being part of an amazing community, getting to grow and change and contribute. And I mean, I mean, I don't know, it doesn't get much better than that.
- [66:46]
A
Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well thank you again and hopefully we will meet in person soon. That would be incredible and yeah awesome. Thank you again.
- [66:54]
B
Okay thank you.
- [66:55]
A
Take care. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subriceeducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do challenges checklists for your business, lighting PDFs I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again that's sue briceducation dot com.