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The Portrait System Podcast
Jerry Ghionis Shares the Personal and Professional Struggles He Faced on his Way to Success (Re-Release)
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- [00:01]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
The biggest problem with photographers among many is comparing yourself with others. I'll never be sued, therefore I'll never be happy. Or waking up to Instagram and thumbing photographs and saying, oh my God, I'll never be good as that person. Well, you're comparing yourself with someone who's been doing it for 10, 20, 30 years.
- [00:54]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Today's guest is the world renowned wedding and portrait photographer Jerry Giones and he definitely does not hold back during our interview. Jerry is highly awarded by photography organizations in several different countries and he shares with us exactly how he hustled to build his business when he first started. Something I really loved about chatting with him is that he also gives us a pretty big glimpse into his personal life and also how he determines which direction he wants to take his business as he learns and grows. You will never believe where Jerry had his very first studio. I mean, this is like the definition of making it work and finding a way. Jerry is so insightful and funny and this is definitely an interview I will never forget. Okay, let's get started with the one and only Jerry Giones. Hi, Jerry, how are you?
- [02:20]
B
Good, how you doing?
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A
I'm so good. Thank you so much for being here with me today. This is going to be so fun.
- [02:26]
B
I can't wait. I've heard a lot about you and we're going to see if it's true by the end of this.
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A
Well, I hope good things and hopefully they will be true. We'll find out, I guess. So where are you right now? Are you in Vegas?
- [02:38]
B
Yes, we're in Las Vegas. We are so called quarantining, but life is good with a wife and two dogs.
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A
Yeah, very cool. And okay, so I have so many questions to ask you and just so much to cover. But before we do that, tell me a little bit about where you're. Okay. So I know you're in Vegas now, but I think you used to be in la. Obviously you're from Australia. Give us just like a little bit of a synopsis of how you ended up in Vegas.
- [03:03]
B
Man. It's. I'll give you the. Yeah, I'll give you the short, short part of it. So. Born and raised in Melbourne, Australia, from a Greek background. So I consider myself Greek, but when I'm outside Australia, I've got to say I'm Australian because you think I'm from Greece. So anyway, I've been traveling relentlessly all around the world for a long time, I'd say for about 20 years, and ended up at the point where I was looking at my hotel bills in la, because I'd always go to la, spend some time there to acclimatize to the. To the time differences. And then I would travel interstate for shooting, teaching, whatever it may be. And I looked at my hotel bill, I'm like, man, I could rent a place full time and even be empty for 90% of the year and still be cheaper than my hotel bill. So at that time I thought, all right, well, LA seemed to be one flight from the east coast, one flight to Melbourne. And at that time I fell in love with an American. You know, her name is sometimes green card. But no, it was a coincidence that just, you know, it just made it a little bit easier. And basically we got married, we lived in LA for about seven years. Realized that I'm not really. The only time I get angry is in traffic and I'm not an angry person. And to take two hours to take that would normally take 20 minutes to go to the airport. And I'm like, it's so expensive. I love deleting I love the experience. And my dad, being a very proud Greek dad, was very excited to tell all his friends that his son lives in Beverly Hills. And then we said, screw this. Let's go to a place that has more space, because we wanted a place that we could photograph in, teach in, have guests. And who knew that living with us, you know, with a swimming pool, would add a whole lot of joy to my life?
- [04:43]
A
So much joy. So much joy.
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B
Oh, my goodness. And then we ended up moving here about three years ago. And we love it. Absolutely love it. We're eight minutes from the airport. We're probably about the same from the Strip. So when we want a little bit of entertainment and excitement, we can go there. But we can just nest and have some fun and photograph and teach here all day long. And life is really good. So we're really enjoying living in Vegas.
- [05:06]
A
Oh, that's so awesome. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. One thing I know about you is that you are the most awarded photographer from WPPI of all time. Right? You've got the most awards.
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B
It's amazing what bribery does. You can get them from ebay now.
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A
That's how your grandmaster.
- [05:24]
B
Well look. Yeah, look, I'm very proud of the influence that I have had from WPPI and what we've given back as well. It's been a great ride. I enjoy the process. You know, the trophy is just the icing on the cake, but for me, it's always been about the creative process, the pure act of creating something different, something unique. And it's been a great journey. Absolutely, yeah.
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A
Now, I assume that it didn't just, like, magically happen that you, you know, are so awarded and have this amazing, not only photography career, but education career as well. Like, how did you get there? And I know that's probably not a simple story, but I'm wondering if you would share with everyone where you started. Like, did you always do photography? Were you something else before for a career, or has this always been it for you?
- [06:14]
B
Well, I came out of the womb with a Nikon camera and born a genius. No, it's funny because I even had this question last week. Someone sort of said, look, you know, can you teach someone to be creative? And then this will be a prelude to the answer that, you know, the answer to the question that you gave me. I think certainly some people are just born with a gift. And the analogy that I gave is that, you know, most comedians, they're just. They're just born funny. Like, you just have this natural knack of Seeing something ordinary or mundane and somehow finding the humor in it. I think with photographers, I think the only thing that you're really born with is the eye, as in the eye for composition, because you're not born knowing lighting, you're not born knowing posing. Certainly some personalities are conducive of interacting with people. So I love to have fun. I think my two strongest assets is my humor and my empathy. So I really care about people and I love to have a laugh. So I think that was just part of my nature. But I was given my first camera at the age of 15 by my brother Nick. He's also a photographer. So I became obsessed. Just like everybody who ever held a camera. I used to shoot anything and everything. Nothing. I didn't discriminate in terms of genre. I would photograph streetscapes, landscapes. My brother at the time was working security for one of the newspapers and he would do night shift. And I would photograph just industrial buildings and internal structures to make them look human. I would wake up at three in the morning to walk out in the fog and make, you know, my neighbors houses almost look sinister. I would. I was that guy with the camera that annoyed everybody because I just wanted to photograph anything and everything and all the time. And basically I didn't really excel in high school because I didn't need to. I knew I wanted to be a photographer. I thought, all right, let me just pass high school, get my year 12 certificate. Like I passed high school. But I was just a social butterfly. I would hang out with the jocks or the equivalent in Australia. I would, you know, I was Greek, so there'd be the Greeks, the Italians, the Asians, the nerds, the whatever. I mean, like, I was the guy that was common with everybody.
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A
I love that.
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B
And I loved it because I just love people. So for me, that people intrigue me. And not just shallow crap, you know, I'm talking about. I get deep very quickly with people and I appreciate that depth. And I often do it from left field. And that's really fun. But so anyway, I finished high school, I worked at a few camera stores. So I wanted to basically just be around the industry. And I was that guy who went up to the owner and said, how many. What do you have the most cameras of? Like which brand, which model do you have a lot of stock of? I said, great, give me the manual, I'll read it. And the following day, that will be the best camera in the store. And then I would sell like nobody else. So I would often educate myself and in Anything that I did. And then during that time I'm like, okay, I want to do a course of photography. So rmit, very famous school or a college in Australia actually rejected me because I wasn't good enough. And even though like, well, I mean like, you want, you want me to be a photographer before I join to be a photographer, I'm like, that's like coming to America and saying I want credit, but I won't give you a credit card until you get credit.
- [09:29]
A
And I'm like, well, how do I get credit, right? So backwards.
- [09:32]
B
So anyway, even though that I, at least to what I thought I had a decent body of hobby work to get in, but they rejected me. So it was a four year private photography school and then during that year I learned all about the darkroom and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, man, just teach me something useful, teach me street smart. So I got fed up. I quit after a year because they were teaching me what I call the algebra of photography. I mean, just give me street smart. So I quit and all my fellow students and my friends said, no, what are you doing? Come on, you got three years left. Whatever. I'm like, you guys do that. I don't care about a certificate. I just care about living in the real world. So then in the Italian district of Melbourne, there's a street called Ligon street. And there was this very famous ice cream shop on the corner. And a few doors down there was a very popular photography studio. And what you would normally do is you'd get your ice cream and then you would go to the studio and you would see the photographs scroll up and down in that studio. So I'm like, I've got nothing to lose. Knocked on the door, walked in, I said, my name is Jerry, I'm a hobbyist. I want to do this as a profession. Can I carry your bags on the weekends? So I did that for a year and a half with no pay on the weekends. And then I ended up working for them full time, managing that studio for three and a half years. Then I left and started my own business. And at that time there was a recession in Australia. The interest rates were like 28%.
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A
Wow.
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B
My family, we come from an entrepreneurial background. My mom and dad were going through a tough time together. They were overseas trying to make money. So mum was in the rag trade. Dad was always in entertainment and food. So he was overseas overseas. My brothers were newly married. I was actually home alone from 12 till 20. So like I have a montage of my childhood, which was incredible. But from 12 till about 20, I often remember being in this empty house. And I was very happy with my childhood. I mean, I honestly, I'm very thankful. And I had an. I mean our house was the party house. Like great music playing, like 100 people over for every week was a normal thing for us. So anyway, I was driving my brother's van, Mum and dad again, everyone was out of the house. The van got repossessed under me. I go home one day the water gets cut off, electricity gets cut off, the next week the gas turns off. So here I am in this empty shell of a house with no services. And then finally the bank took over the house, so they changed the locks. So here I am, 19 years of age, I'm like, well, what do I do now? There's no one physically of my immediate family in my city at the house. So I broke into my house because I knew there was a window they couldn't close. And then I rescued all the belongings. We rented a place and then at least we rescued what you could shake out of the house, so to speak. And at the time I got married, I got married for the first time. And I got married when I was 20. What the hell was I thinking? But either way, so I got married at 20. I didn't get married in my family home. So that was. I felt upset about that. And it sort of, it stung quite a bit because we're very family orientated and being from a Greek family and all of a sudden I'm in this sort of strange rented home getting ready to get married. It was just a little bit weird. But so anyway, from there I, when I started my own business, my brothers owned a charcoal chicken to go food store. And it was on a corner of a busy suburban street and there was a separate door on the side of the building. And I said to my brothers, look, because we're all suffering at this stage, right? So I said, look, can I build a wall in your storeroom and I can operate my studio from there? Which I did. So my studio was at the back of a chicken shop.
- [13:17]
A
In the chicken shop, yeah. Way to make it work.
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B
Yeah. And I couldn't afford anything, right? So I went to the Salvation army to buy sofas. I got my auntie to. I bought material and I bought leopard skin couches. So leopard skin material. So she sewed the leopard skin, you know, the COVID of the sofas and everything like that. I bought a old TEAC TV which is probably like a, you know, 15 inch TV and built it into the wall. And I operated my studio from this back of the chicken shop. And my first year I shot 25 weddings. The following year I shot 50. The following year I shot 100.
- [13:52]
A
Oh my gosh.
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B
Then I doubled my prices and I shot 100 weddings a year again. And then in 2000, 2001 I saw air above the building and I went to the overall landlord and I said, hey, what will it take for you to build a second level above this building? I said, if you build it, I will rent it. So it took a year to convince him, a year to build. And then sure enough, that small little bedroom that was my Entire Studio for 100 weddings plus countless portraits a year. That was the lobby or the foyer of the of the building now. And then we reinvented the studio name. So now we became, we called Excite X S I G H T Excite. And Australia at the time was quite funny. Australia had I think one of the first gold class movie theaters in the world. Like you know how now you can find these small theaters that have recliner couches and you can order food into the film and all that kind of stuff. So Australia I believe was one of the first to do it. So when I that first movie, I said my studio is going to be the first gold class theater in our industry. So we were so busy, we ended up building this red carpet area, six sofas, big screen tv, surround sound. We would see six couples at once. So by the time the first couple came and the last couple came, it'll be like a mini cocktail party as they're observing my albums and photographs. Then when the last couple came, we could seat them down, blow them away with an incredible audio visual, with champagne and jelly beans, whatever, chocolate, and then would separate in separate groups to see who would book them first. So at my peak, we were doing 300 plus weddings a year and countless portraits. We had 15 year, 15 staff members and we built this incredible studio and I learned my craft. And I honestly say for those people listening out there who perhaps don't identify with weddings, I think weddings is the best genre of photography to learn the art and craft from. Because with a wedding you shoot everything. I mean you're shooting weddings, you're shooting portraits, you're shooting fashion, you're shooting streetscapes, landscapes, details. You take the veil off, it's a portrait, take your clothes off, it's maternity. Have a baby, it's a newborn, have kids, grow up. I mean you're photographing everything with time constraints Weather constraints under pressure. So it really.
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A
It's like boot camp.
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B
Oh, my God.
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A
It really is.
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B
Absolutely. And from there, I ended up. But, I mean, now I shoot anything to do with people. So whether it's fashion, portraits, boudoir, editorial. And that was the best testing ground. So now it's been. Man, I'm 27 years shooting professionally, since I was 20, so I've just turned 47 last month. And I've been teaching for about 20 years now. So there's the quick, long story of what you are just asking.
- [16:39]
A
Wow. There's so much in there that I want to ask you about going way back to when you said you knew you were gonna be a photographer. Like, high school. Get me through it. It's so interesting how it can be different. I don't know if it's just being in Australia or different families or whatever. Like, I loved my. In high school, my photography class. It was darkroom. I mean, it was, you know, film way back then.
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B
Right.
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And I loved it. Never once, Jerry, did it occur to me that I could be a photographer for a living. That's just not how it went. It was. You went to college, you got a degree doing something, you know, business or whatever. For me, it ended up being social work. Like, it never even crossed my mind I could do it for a living. It's amazing how different it can be from family to family and just culture to culture.
- [17:23]
B
Yeah, that's fascinating, too. I find that the American culture certainly is different to the Australian culture in many ways. As an example, like, it's not ingrained in you in Australia that you must do university. Whereas in America, it's all about college. You've got to go to college. I mean, that's just a given. So for me, watching movies about college, like, you know, you've got American Pie or Animal House or, like, all these funny movies that, like, sophomore. I don't know what they mean. I don't know what year they mean. We just call it high school year seven to 12. And this is no bullshit. Only last week, I photographed my first graduation portrait.
- [18:05]
A
Really?
- [18:06]
B
Yeah. So someone comes to me and says, all right, photograph my son. Okay? I'm like, well, so from what I. Obviously, from what I know, from what I see on TV and movies, you know, you've got the graduation cap and you've got the gown. There's no. There's none of that. On the last day in Australia, when you finish high school, everyone signs your shirt with a Sharpie. And we call it. We call it a Texter, not a Sharpie. But anyway, you get a Sharpie and you sign your name and that's it. You graduate. There's no pomp and circumstance and everything like that. I'm like, dude, you pass high school, it's no big deal. Like, but anyway, so the mother says to me, photograph my son. And we just want something very simple and traditional. So I ended up photographing the cap and gown. And I have some beautiful Oliphant backgrounds, which I know, of course, sue uses among many. So there I am, cap and gown, looking at the camera, smiling, and I'm like, this is boring as hell. I go, this is just silly. So I'm like, are we happy now? Are you happy? Okay, let me do it my way. So I grabbed two strobes, bare bulb. I get the flash illuminating. Tyler is his name Tyler on his face. I shoot against a seven foot Octabox. So I've got a clean white background. I backlight him and I just very, very quickly. We did this really, really cool contemporary graduation portrait. Then I'm like, I look over and I've got a friend of mine who's parking their RV in our driveway because we've got a very big driveway. And then the sun was reflecting off a window back on the actual rv. And I'm like, all right, we're about to finish up on that. We have to do this now. In the meantime, he was very. Tyler is. And I say this with all respect, just a typical teenager. Doesn't really fit into his skin properly. Probably watches, you know, Netflix and plays games on, you know, PlayStation and eats Doritos. I mean, you know.
- [20:01]
A
Right, right. Typical American teenager.
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B
Yeah. And, you know, you can't really have a conversation with him yet. Like, he's sort of still fitting in. So I'm like. I'm looking at him, I'm like, dude, you got to change out of those clothes. Let's. So I go to my wardrobe, I sex him up. I make him look like a rock star. I got it. I've got a. I've got a hat. I've got this sort of like, cowboy hat. I got him with a denim top, white T shirt, black jeans, boots. I've got a few, you know, wristbands. And anyway, we made him look like a rock star and he's feeling awesome. He's looking great. So then what I do is I place him in front of the rv. I've got the sun reflecting off a piece of glass, giving him backlight that's hitting the rv, reflecting back on Him, I'm getting the flare of the sun. At the same time, I take a couple of photographs. He looks at the back of the camera and he's like freaking out. And the mother started to cry. He's like, I've never felt and looked so good.
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A
Oh, I love it.
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B
And I guess that really, that really encompasses what I do. Very early my career, I had the foresight to photograph behind the scenes of what I did. Does that make sense? In other words? Like my assistant, Sally Ann Sargood, who works with Animoto now, she was my personal assistant for seven years. And she goes, gerry, you realize that not many people shoot like you. I said, what do you mean? She goes, well. So she encouraged me to photograph a lot of the behind the scenes. And that turned into launching one of the first online educational platforms. So then I took on this MacGyver style approach. I'm like, how can I make something out of nothing? Because I honestly believe that you photograph the way you are as a person. So in other words, if you're an asshole, it'll probably show up in your work. And I say that in jest, but let me explain. If you're a negative person, you'll walk into a room that has crap everywhere and not know where to shoot because you just see the crap. Whereas I walk into a room and I see a pocket of light in a blank wall and I see a blank camera canvas and I know I can create something really beautiful, even though that it's very challenging and under the circumstances, it's terrible. So that became one of the hallmark or trademarks of my work in terms of, oh, Jerry's the guy that can make something out of nothing and among other stuff. But it ended up being a really fun approach to the way I shoot and challenging myself to do that rather than, you know, sometimes people get the perception of me or the likes of sue or anyone with a decent or high probably in the industry that we're only decent because we only photograph good looking people in great locations and so on and so forth. I'm like, well, that's just silly. I mean, yes. Is it easier with someone, quote unquote, flawless, pretty, whatever, in a perfect gown in a great location? Well, yeah, you know, anything's easier when you have that. But it's so funny because I often get the best sales from again, the quote unquote, not so pretty people in a sense that normal people just like you and me, right? Just normal people. You know, we're not a perfect ten, we're not a five we might be a six and a half. And then all of a sudden the photographer sees them and then brings out the best in them and like, oh my goodness, like, I can't, I can't promise you that I'm going to make you look like Scarlett Johansson, but I do promise you that I can bring out the best in you. Whatever that looks and feels like and whatever we want to portray in this particular photograph. And yeah, but anyway, I mean, there's lots of facets to that, but that gives you an idea.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, making it work, and that's something that sue teaches all the time, is making it work. So people out there who are like, I can't find a studio or, you know, there's nothing in my town or whatever, here you are, you made a studio in a back of a chicken. Like, if that's not making it work, I don't know, you know, I mean, that's just, it's incredible. You can always find a way, find a way 100%. That's a classic example right there. And also like you said, it's, you know, for you especially, I bet, with doing all of those weddings, all of those years where you start to look at the light bouncing off an RV for example, completely differently because you had to back then in order to make beautiful portraits with whatever situation you're in or location. I mean, it just seems like it was the best training, 100%.
- [24:20]
B
I mean, I often tell people like when I'm, when I'm doing in person workshops and we're walking around a location or whatever. It's so funny that photographers, if they don't see a profoto sticker on a light source, they don't see it as a light source, right? I'm like, guys, if it illuminates, frickin use it. Like use it. It's right there. It makes no difference. And yes, do I have profoto? Do I have this light, that light? I mean, I've invented the ice light for goodness sake. I know about light, but why I don't always use the same light on every job is because my work looks one dimensional and looks very predictable. So when someone says to me, well, I'm the off camera flash guy, I'm like, okay, does your off camera flash suit the subject matter and what you're trying to say about them? And they look at me like I just told them something incredibly profound, which I guess in many ways it is. It's totally fine. That's the tool of your trade. You do what you do, but really we have to shoot more purposefully. And I find that that's a difference between me now and maybe when I started is that I would just think of it as flattery, like, how can I make someone look and feel pretty or look and feel cool or handsome? And now I say, well, what am I trying to say about this person? What light and shadow and composition, cropping, lens choice, compression, all of these things. What can I do that will help communicate what I'm trying to say about this person or what they want to say about themselves? So. And I think that's when you become an artist because a photographer just takes pictures, an artist creates. And the more you communicate something, the more you feel about something. Now that's where. In the artist's territory. Yeah, and. And it's a whole different ballgame certainly when you're trying to sell it. But. But yeah, that's some cool stuff.
- [26:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's a really great way to look at it. It really is. And in turn, it just, it goes back to you serving the client. And what is it that that works best for the client? And like you said, the most flattering. And it does. It goes back to that for sure.
- [26:25]
B
Absolutely.
- [26:26]
A
So, okay, back then you said you, at one point you were doing your company anyway was doing 300 weddings a year. Like, that's insane. How were you getting these clients back then? Like, I mean, clearly you're good at, you know, socializing and talking with people or whatever. Like, what were you doing, man?
- [26:43]
B
It was good old fashioned hustle. And I teach this to this day, I think to many people in 2020 and recently, ever since Internet and social media, people have a decent Facebook page or decent website, some Facebook advertising, maybe some Instagram, they've got some decent SEO. And now let me wait in the inbox so that the inquiries come. I'm like, no, then I sound old here. But every business really is based upon relationships. And for me, I was so hungry to put myself on the map. And it wasn't so much an ego thing, it was just because you know what? This is what I do. It's just a good old fashioned hustle. So I was the kind of guy that would drive to reception venues, notice the blank walls, arrange a photo shoot with my favorite designer, favorite suit, place, florist, cake, whatever, produce these beautiful photographs, go to a magazine, get the front cover of a magazine, advertise on the back cover, produce a magazine for everyone to advertise in, produce audio visuals for every single company that I work with basically spoil people in positions of power that have one degree of separation between me and the people that I want. In other words, a designer is a dressmaker. Well, they're going to want some photographs. So what I used to do is I'd find out the designer's name, and I would basically photograph that particular dress on the weekend, print a 20 by 30 enlargement, frame it, get their logo, my logo, print it, and then send it to the client. Because cold calling is often very difficult because they're busy or whatever. And I'm like, well, no one ignores a FedEx package because everyone feels very sexy. It's like, oh, my God, I'm important. I got FedEx package. Oh, my God. Wilson. No, not Wilson, but. And then all of a sudden this. This thing comes up and I might say something like, every time I photograph a beautiful dress, it happens to be yours. If you ever meet someone that appreciate beautiful photography of your dresses and a great experience, I'm your guy. Here's a token of my appreciation for your wonderful artistry. And by the way, here are some photographs that you can use on social media. Please tag me in every single photograph. And anytime that you need something, please let me know.
- [28:56]
A
Amazing.
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B
What happens is people will do that with 10 dressmakers or nine dressmakers, and they get no response, realizing that the 10th would have been the one that would have said yes. So for me, anyone who knows me and people who've known me for my whole life know that I'm relentless and I always get what I want. And I don't say that this is not an ego thing. It's just that I have a single focus and relentless pursuit for what I want to achieve. And it's not always what one thinks it is. You know, when I was younger and had less purpose and I wasn't happy, especially my first marriage, it's part of what made me successful. So I wasn't happy at home. And believe it or not, I was married for 16 years on my first marriage, and I grew up very religious. I wasn't that guy that was a player. Like, I. When everyone was going out and all that stuff, I was carrying bags. I was shooting weddings. And then what helped made me successful is actually me being miserable in my first marriage, because the only thing that gave me joy was photography and clients. And there's nothing personal to my former partner. You know, she doesn't really enjoy people, doesn't enjoy traveling, doesn't enjoy photography. I'm like, well, shit, that's just three strikes, right? The Same relentless loyalty and commitment that I have made me last for 16 years, faithful to the end. So I just got to a point where I'm like, you know, I asked my former partner, I said, do you love yourself? And because you suffer from depression, she says, no. I said, well, you've got no chance of loving me. And then that's when I knew that the writing was on the wall. And after six months from that conversation, we moved on. And then that was it. And then. So since then, as a photographer, I find that that's just the thing, right? I find that we all have stages. If you're a photographer listening to this podcast, the stage that you go through is that you just want to be a pro, right? You want to turn your hobby into being a pro, then you want profit, you want to make money, right? So you want to be a pro, you want to make money, and then you want to master what you do, and then you're looking for purpose. And I find that, for me, I'm just at that age in my life, whether it's as an artist and as a human being, that I'm just looking for purpose. And if anyone's asking about business identity and questions and things like that, and I've seen people, photographers do these business plans, 20, 30, 40 pages long, and I'm like, let me simplify everything that you've just said. Ask yourself the following question. How do you make the most amount of money for the least amount of time, for the least amount of investment, for the most amount of fun? And they're like, oh, shit, Jerry. I just paid, like, three grand to get this. You just told me in one sentence. And so every time I have a business opportunity, I ask myself that question, and I'm like, if this does not bring me joy, I'm not going to do it. If it's not efficient or it's a huge risk, at the risk of my balanced life or health or whatever it might be, more money's not going to make me happier, even though that I'm not rich. And I don't. You know, I mean, certainly I lost a lot of. A lot in my divorce, pretty much everything. But that's okay. What I have now with Melissa, I've been married to her almost 10 years, and I wake up in bliss every day, and I go to bed in bliss. And I married, literally even before I was with her. I said, this is the most beautiful person I've ever actually met. And now I'm married to her. And the difference with me is some People are happy, but they don't even realize it because they always put a date on their happiness. I'll be happy when this happens. When that happened, when I get that car, when I go to do photography full time, when I get that house, and I'm like, man, I'm actually happy every day, all day. And now do we have bad days? Sure. Not as a couple, but I just realize it and thankful. And then every decision that I make, am I protecting or sabotaging my happiness? Because everyone can be happy now. And I know that right now. I know this podcast will live on, but we're in just past mid 2020 and we're living through a pandemic. And I think it's been a perfect reset for mankind because people are connecting in such a more meaningful way than they used to. And then there's so many people are actually realizing what's most important, which time is number one. Without time, you have nothing. Without health, you have nothing. Then it's the strength of your relationships and then job fulfillment. And for me, it's in that order. And I feel like our industry is so ripe in the sense that because people are connecting in so many beautiful ways, then they're going to start appreciating photography again in such a deeper level and people are going to want to celebrate. And what better way to celebrate living through this, going through this, and understanding your mortality and how fragile life and relationships can be than with a beautiful portrait By Insert your studio name here.
- [34:02]
A
So, yeah, yeah, those are some seriously wise words there, for sure. Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code podcast cast 50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos and awesome community and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business business of your dreams. I'll see you there. And you know, I wanted to ask you about the marketing piece. You know, obviously you said a lot of amazing things in there after that, but it. Because I had a feeling you were going to say that. That you were going to say that you hustled and that you have the drive and the tenacity to make it work. I just. I just had a feeling you were going to say, I did this, this, this, this, and this. Because I think that a lot of times what happens with students is that they're missing that piece. Like you said, it's like, okay, what I've done, my website and this and that, and why aren't the clients coming? And it's like, that's not how it works. There's so much more to it. And on top of, like you said, having to have that, like, I know I'm gonna make this work. I can relate to that a lot. I'm very similar in that when I put my eye on something and, like, failure is no option. I know that sounds cliche, but that's truly the mindset that I have to be in. And I know I'm gonna make it work no matter what. Like, this is going to happen. And I feel like it's such a powerful way to think in order to, you know, move forward towards those things you want to achieve. It's just so powerful to have that mindset.
- [35:58]
B
There's no doubt. I mean, let me just get your words that you just mentioned, and I want to flip the script a little bit.
- [36:03]
A
Okay.
- [36:04]
B
Failure is an option. Failure, in fact, is actually the foundation to success. And although I know you believe that, and I know that I'm converting it a little bit, but if you look back at any success that you've ever had, it was all built on the foundation of failure. Because it could be those 10 bridal stores that I went to to get one that actually said yes, so nine times I did it, and so on. Or when I do a shoot and something doesn't work out, and then I practice that technique, and I get back to it, like, oh, my God, that worked. And there are so many things that people are missing these days. And again, I'm going to sound old and fuddy daddy. But, you know, the iPhone, I love and hate it. I want to smash it, like, on the wall every day. And I want to embrace it and hug it, like, and spoon it every day. Because it does so many things. What it's basically done is it's conditioned us to want a shortcut to anything. So there's an app for that. I want to do this. And you could do so many things, but what can't be. You can learn knowledge, but you can't really learn wisdom. You just have to live it. And I think that unfortunately people just want the shortcut to everything. And it's always get rich quick. It's, well, why don't you get rich slow? So for me, and going back to the marketing thing, for me, it was every point should lead in my direction. When you want to get a wedding or a portrait, you have to know the name Excite and you have to come back to me. So for me, I did my own bridal fare after being disappointed, dismayed about a bridal show, like, I think I can do better. So I did. I've done cinema, advertising, I did radio, I gave away a free $50,000 wedding. And we did it in different ways. I would go to every even cakes. Cakes traditionally are booked last, but for the 1 in 10 weddings where they book the cake first because they know someone, then why couldn't they get a. Be referred to a photographer? So I would get a cake place, design a cake, and then get suggestions of the couple and foreground and the background and humanize the cake. So now that when people buy a cake, they're associating themselves with me and what I can do for them. I mean, you name it, we ended up doing it. And we were very creative and clever on how we positioned ourselves in the market. And to this day, even in la, I'm like, I was getting burnt out a few years ago and I could see myself getting burnt out rather than reaching that level. And I said to my wife, baby, can you block out these two months? And I don't want a speaking engagement, I don't want any paid shoots, commissions, nothing. I just want to play. So here I am knocking on doors of these modeling agencies because I want talent. And here I am, the quote unquote, multi award winner, blah, blah, blah, and no one knows me from Adam, so I have to prove myself just like everybody else. I knocked on doors of fashion houses, I knocked on doors of agencies, developed this huge network, and the same thing that I'm doing here in Vegas. And then I've literally reinvented myself incredibly. This ridiculously huge body of work. And a symbol of that commitment, I ended up winning the Australian Fashion Photographer of the Year a few years ago, which everyone knows me for weddings. And I'm like, all of a sudden I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool. And it wasn't so much the. And I've got to say this again, we said it off air. But for me, I always focus on the process, not the result. In other words, I'll only Be happy if this print scores x amount in a competition or it wins. No, no, no. Hold back. Focus on exactly what you want to do, what you need to do to actually achieve this. Where that leaves you doesn't really matter. And it brings me, I guess, to one of my ethos is that I liken business to a diet. Okay? So, for example, when many of us are getting we're unhealthy, we start eating better. When many of us are getting a little bit rounded around the mid area or getting a bit of a double chin, we're like, oh, we have to eat better. Or we go to the gym. And almost every single person I've ever met have actually gone to a gym and then quit because they didn't see quick results.
- [40:04]
A
Right?
- [40:05]
B
So what I'm getting at, the analogy in business is this. When you're in business and your business is unhealthy, in other words, you're getting overweight, you're unhealthy in business, then you start to work on it. So the idea is that too many of us work in the business, not on the business. So then we start to get fit metaphorically in business. Great money's coming in, working, okay, SEO, we've got a bit of hustle, things are great, and then we only react. We're reacting to the work that's come in, not being proactive to maintain it. So what I'm getting at, the underlying thing is this. I believe that people should treat their business like a total lifestyle change. This is the way I eat now. This is the way I exercise now. The same way with it. Like, I'm on the ketogenic diet, right? So I just don't eat many of the simple carbs. I don't eat sugars. This is the way I eat now. Now, if I just did it as a fad, lost weight, oh, I look really good for that thing that I wanted to do, whatever. But now I'll just eat crap because Covid's happening and it's comfort food. Well, no, you know, yes, you can do that. Everyone's got their own prerogative. But it has to be a lifestyle choice. And for me, why I maintained my business back then so well is even at the peak of my being busy, I spent one day a week on the road, and that is creating new relationships and manifesting the current ones and the existing ones that I had. And I was always healthy, so to speak.
- [41:33]
A
Yeah, I love that analogy, making it a lifestyle. And it's interesting too, because if I think like, okay, I'm kind of like not getting as many inquiries as normal or not getting as many clients. That's when I know I'm slipping. Like I'm not staying with the program. And I'm like, okay, I got to get back on it. It's exactly how you described.
- [41:50]
B
Yeah. Like in Australia. Well, I'll say it plainly, just stop being a lazy bastard.
- [41:55]
A
Yeah, totally, totally.
- [41:57]
B
Because we can blame pandemic, we can blame recession, we can blame everything. But I'm telling you now, and I've always said this and now it's ringing to be true, I've said to my students, I go, pretend like you're hungry because maybe one day you will be. And here we are. And I'm like, well, Covid, I'm like, well, okay. And I would literally mentor people. And I said, to this day, I've got mentor sessions this week. And people say, gerry, how do I get work now? And I'm like, who can't get Covid? Animals. I go, do you like pets? Yes. Do you have a dog? Yes. Have you ever gone to a trainer or a vet or anyone? Absolutely. Well, why don't you go to your local dog trainer and say for every dog that gets trained in that four week program that with permission of the owner, you photograph the portraits of the dogs outside, canvas, background, social distance, all that stuff, and then go photograph these pets and then when they pick up the dog, you can photograph with the owner as well. No obligation to buy prints. Start from so and so people spend in excess of now you're the hero of the community and all of a sudden you're selling these pet portraits. Most people who have pets spend money on them, arguably more than their children. There's a whole industry. I go, does your camera have the capability of shooting film as in motion? Yes. I go, do you think people need social media? Well, of course they do. Why don't you go to your local strip mall and walk into every store and offer to do them at no charge for the moment. Basically, you are going to film that restaurant and how they social distance, how they wear the mask, how they prepare the food, how they walk in, the culture, the delivery, the people eating the food. Create a month's worth of content and with film and stills and then offer them that you'll do, you know, two posts a day and I'll charge you a hundred bucks a week. Who would not say yes to that? Ten people do that. There's $1,000 a week. Well, now you can pay your bills and thrive and so Survive. But of course, you're too busy. You're doing your own Photoshop. And there's a recession, there's a pandemic, there's no work. Guys, we've got to wake up. Like, there are so many opportunities right now. Who needs. I even heard, even after I mentioned this to many people, Kevin O'Leary, who's Mr. Wonderful in the shark tank. This is no bullshit. I freaked me out. There was an interview a week or so ago, and he said, for anyone suffering out there is. I would become a photographer and videographer and do social media for businesses who need it. And I'm like, oh, my goodness me. First of all, like, you've got this sort of one of the highest profile people in business. And obviously with tv and at the moment, encouraging people who are not photographers and filmmakers to do this, let alone there's us who've already got the gear, we know what we're doing, and we're sitting on our ass waiting for the work to come. Like, it's just insane to me. But anyway, as you can hear, I'm very passionate about the process.
- [44:55]
A
Yeah, no, and it's good. And it goes back to being creative and thinking about. It's not about pity me or poor me or whatever, but what can I do right now? It goes back to making it work. How can I do this? There's always a way. There's always a way.
- [45:11]
B
Yes, there is.
- [45:12]
A
And if you want to see it and you want to believe it, you'll find it and you'll figure it out. If you don't, you won't.
- [45:17]
B
Yeah.
- [45:17]
A
Like, it seems like that is the mentality here with that.
- [45:20]
B
If you're looking. I mean, subconsciously, if you're looking for an out, you'll always find it because it's just easier.
- [45:26]
A
Right? Right?
- [45:27]
B
I mean, you know, sometimes it's right place, right time. You know, I've even heard people say, oh, sue, you know, Sue Bryce, you know, she's only, you know, dismiss her success as something. And I've had a bunch of guys do this. Like, I'd walk into a conversation and they'll dismiss her success as not deserved. Oh, she was lucky. And she was this. And I said to these guys, I'm like, guys, could it be that she's just really talented and she just worked her ass off? Could it just be that? And they're looking at me, which is exactly what it.
- [46:01]
A
Like what it is.
- [46:01]
B
They're looking at me like I was an alien. And I said this. I said this on stage. And one day, in front of a thousand odd people, and, you know, the audience erupted into applause and stuff like that. I'm like, guys, you know, I think too many people dismiss successful people as unlucky or undeserving of their success because it actually justifies their own failure. Well, screw you. Because even if anyone successful was lucky, would you not take advantage of that opportunity that you got, or would you have actually milked that as much and for all it's worth? And people like, for example, dismiss the Kardashian family. And I'll often say, when I talk about branding, I say, people can be brands. What do you, you know, what do you think of Kim Kardashian? And then, you know, all these insulting words would come up and I'm like.
- [46:48]
A
Genius, genius, Brilliant way to use what you have and go for it.
- [46:54]
B
And then the guy would say, well, it's just boobs and butt. And I'm like, you know what? Even if it was boobs and butt, tell me another human being on the earth that has maximized boobs and butt, which, of course, we all know it's.
- [47:06]
A
A lot more better than totally, but.
- [47:08]
B
Man, I mean, you think of the strands and that, the mother and the decision making and all the sliding doors and all the things that have come from this one family is staggering. Whether or not I believe in this, that or whatever, but I just think it's staggering. And again, as if something good would have happened to one of us and if we were lucky or fortunate or in the right place at the right time. Well, of course I'm not going to pursue this avenue because I don't want to justify to the haters out there that I'm only successful because of this, this and this. Well, that's just stupid. I mean, you know, so there is no doubt a combination of elements that make one successful for me when I speak to people that have known me. And, you know, I recently my uncle passed away only a week or so ago, which was the. The closest person of a certain age group that has passed away in our family. And it was very, very tough. And we recalled conversations with them because they have no children and they're great roles models for us in terms of being the affectionate uncles and aunties for everyone. And it was so beautiful when they would, you know, my auntie, who ironically, was trying to comfort me about my uncle passing, when I spoke to her, and she said, we've always been proud of you. Uncle Alex has always been proud of you. You've always known what You've honored, you're living your dream. I can't even explain it. It was such a beautiful conversation where true success, really, at the end of the day, people have to understand what that means because people are looking for notoriety, they're looking for money. And yes, that's fun. And money helps, obviously, gives you choices and which helps your lifestyle. But the way that she was even describing how peaceful his death was under the circumstances, that he passed away from lung cancer, but the way she described his last breath, and even the fact that he had almost a half a smile on his face when he passed, and my family went over, because there was no funeral. My family was over when he was there, literally on his deathbed, and they were just celebrating him. They were laughing and they were crying and. And the affection and the beauty in which she mentioned those words and those stories. I just can't. You know, I know that my wife and I have something very, very similar. And with the maturity that comes with time and the fact that our relationships get stronger with every day, and the appreciation of what you have comes every day, that's what true success comes, really what it looks like to me. And everything else is just gravy, you know, Everything else. For me, my mandate as a human is affecting people in a positive way. That's my elevator pitch. Whether it's making someone look and feel beautiful and creating something purposeful, or whether it's being able to do that for others in the photography industry. And I've mentored a lot of other people in different industries because your knowledge translates into different things. You really understand that all of these things are a vehicle to it. So if there's something in the business that you don't like to do, and it's just part of what you need to do, so do what you have to do. What you want to do is see it as a vehicle to really do what makes you the happiest. For me, it's affecting people in a positive way, but also being creative doing it. I love the creativity. For me, it's. It's that rush, it's that journey of creation. And it's not always photography. It could be a business idea and all these different things. But yeah, man, I know that was a. I don't know where we started.
- [50:40]
A
From there, but I'm just listening, like, oh, yeah, totally. Mm. Yeah. No, I mean, everything you said is so beautiful, really, truly. And I'm sorry about your uncle. And it. You know, it is devastating to lose someone like that. But when you can take what You've learned from him and apply it. And just looking at what is most important, and like you said through the pandemic, and just everyone kind of really taking a step back to see what is important in life. I mean, that's a huge silver lining, I guess, to some really horrible things like your uncle passing or just, you know, this crazy time that we live in. And it really does come down to that, to looking at what truly makes you happy. And you said something else in there about sometimes people are happy and they don't even realize it. That really hit me. And I think sometimes, even though I know that I'm like, I am such. I'm full of so much joy. Like, I am looking out at a lake right now, and this house I live on, I have these beautiful children, my husband. I couldn't ask for a better partner in life. Like, I've got so much that I'm so thankful for. I get to be this podcast host. And there are days when I can feel this. Like, it's almost like I'm not allowing myself to feel the happiness this day because I'm focused on something that, you know, some sort of negativity. I don't even know where it's coming from. And I do that more often than I should. And so when you said that, I was like, ooh, I love that. That really hit me. It really hit me. You know, I appreciate that.
- [52:10]
B
I think one thing that a lot of people don't know about me is in the last three years, I developed tinnitus. Or people call it tinnitus, Jerry.
- [52:18]
A
I've had it since 1999. Oh, my God, the day after Easter. Okay, I'm with you on that.
- [52:23]
B
Well, I've got to speak to you off air about that, but for those of you who don't know what the hell we're talking about, I wouldn't even call it a ringing, because a ringing in the ear sounds like it goes up and down, up and down. My tinnitus. I don't know about yours, Nicky, but I have this incredibly high pitch sound 24 7.
- [52:41]
A
Same never leaves.
- [52:43]
B
Okay. All right, Nikki, with the permission of our partners, I think we need to get together and spoon for a little bit to make ourselves feel better about what we're doing. So for those of you who don't know what this means, guys, is that it's a constant sound in your ear that prevents you from ever having silence and in some ways, ever having complete peace. And ever since I got it, like, two, three years ago, there Was, you know, we did hearing tests and things like that. The tests suggest that it's not trauma and I've done brain scans, I've done heart scans and usually it's a. It's an alarm bell with some part of your body. It could be back issues, neck issues, we don't really know. But cut a long story short, what this has given me has given me, and probably the same with you, Nikki. Without even realizing it, it's given me intermittent depression. And what happens is that it's exclusive of the other. It's hard to explain. So I'll wake up one day and. Because there's two facets to tinnitus. One is just the annoyance and the frustration. The fact is that there's always a cicada in your ear. And some tinnitus is lower where it's a bit more muted, it's a bit lower. You can drown it out in the sound. It's a bit hashy, it's very easy to blend in. But when you can't find even a song that is. Is as high pitched short of Mariah Carey singing at the highest decibel the whole time, which would probably be more annoying, it's always there. So because I'm not an angry person, I don't manifest it in a way where I get angry at things or I'm short tempered or anything like that. So every month or two, or sometimes six months if I can get away with it, I just, I have a dark day. I have what I call a dark cloud and. And sometimes it's not like me listening to my ear and focusing on it. Then the dark cloud comes. It actually is independent of that this dark cloud will come and be like cling wrap that suffocates me and God.
- [54:34]
A
This chokes me up a little bit listening to hear you say that. Because I can relate on such an intense level that it, yeah, chokes me up a bit.
- [54:42]
B
Well, I empathize with you because I. So what happens is I just literally start bawling because I can't, at least from what I understand is I can't manifest it in a different way. Like anger, being short tempered, punching a wall, whatever it comes. And sometimes I can suppress it. Sometimes I can go to one of those malls in Crank, like the casinos or whatever, and I've got to get my senses tantalized so that I can avoid it. And then sometimes it's like a monster where you literally. There's like a monster right to the side of me wanting to face me and staring at my eyes. And I know that if I stare at this monster which is begging for my attention, I'm just going to start weeping uncontrollably. So what happens is that I guess the metaphor that it gives me is that I think that too many of us when we have our bad days, it's begging. Like there's such negativity in the world right now and there's certainly a lot of hope too. But you know, basically it's what you focus on at the end of the day. If I was focusing on things of the pandemic that I can't control, then yeah, I would live in despair all day, every day because things can seem pretty hopeless, you know. So at one point I said to myself, I'm giving tinnitus too much respect, like it's commanding my attention. And even though that when I have those bad days, Melissa will hug me, make me feel good, but during it, and I'm sure Nikki, you'll identify with this, you will be hearing this friggin loud noise that is still, you're not being, you're being comforted physically as in terms of a hug or embrace or cry on my shoulder or whatever. But it's, the sound is still there. I mean I've got a left of my index finger, I cut it when I was a kid so I've got missing a piece of my left index finger and I'm like, can I give you four of my fingers and I'll trade you for that stupid sound in my ear. And you know that it's just not going to come. So I'm doing everything that I can. And I went through six months frustrated, annoyed, but coping, didn't have that dark cloud and about a month ago I had four or five bouts of that dark cloud and now I've been through a two week, three week stretch where I'm coping very well. So I guess everyone has their version of tinnitus. In other words, they've got something negative in their life that's happening. And I think that as a photographer, the root of most people's problems in any genre, but because we're photography related in this case, usually stems from a personal issue or a personal problem. And the problem is that we are giving our the negative energy. We're spending 80% of our time worrying about the 10, 20% things that happen and we're giving our problems too much respect when we should appreciate the incredible, incredible things in life and control the things you can accept the things that you can't and really it's funny because I recently spoke to a professor who specializes in tinnitus. We did a phone call, and he gave me some profound words. He asked me all these questions, and he says, rather than try to cope better, he says, care less.
- [57:56]
A
Yeah. Yep.
- [57:57]
B
And when he said that to me, I'm like. I'm like. It was really profound. I'm like, yeah, because something might bother you. Like, let's say. I mean, people like sue and me, you know, any kind of leaders in the industry will. You'll get some crap that just comes with the territory. And to be honest, like, I actually. I just find it really funny. I don't. You know, I care less about it. I couldn't care less about it because you don't know me personally. You might not even like my face. You might not like my accent. You might like my work. It's totally cool. I'm totally fine with that. So I care less about it. When I'm like, oh, that person said something bad about me. Oh, let me just cope better. Oh, look. Look what they've said about me. Oh, my God. That's not me. They should know me better. And, like, no. So anything in life, I really feel that. That. That is a. I'm not saying not care about the pandemic or not care of people suffering. I'm saying there's things that you just can't control. So distinguish the difference when you need to cope better and when you need to care less, and when you need to put your foot on the gas and say, all right, well, what can I do about this problem? And if you can't, then care less. Move on, move forward.
- [59:02]
A
I love that.
- [59:03]
B
Yeah.
- [59:04]
A
Either cope better or care less, and look at which it needs to be right now.
- [59:08]
B
That's.
- [59:08]
A
That's such a good, concrete way to look at it.
- [59:11]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [59:12]
A
And when it comes to the tinnitus, I've. I've come to a place of. I don't know, acceptance is the right word, but I've almost embraced it. Like, it's there, and I've tried everything under the sun to get rid of it, and it's there, and it's okay because I'm not gonna let it ruin my life. I'm not gonna let it. Like you said, I'm giving it less control and I'm caring less. And it's such a. Like, an empowering feeling to be able to do that.
- [59:36]
B
Yeah.
- [59:37]
A
You know, so. Yeah. Very interesting. It's crazy. That's how we came full circle to that.
- [59:42]
B
But, well, and you and I know, though, that now that we're speaking about this conversation, we are hearing it a lot more than when we were distracted by the conversation.
- [59:49]
A
And that's 100%. As soon as you said that I can, right? I'm like, yep, there it is. Boom.
- [59:55]
B
And that's what I'm getting at, is that that's the same with every problem in the world. If you focus on it and you allow yourself to focus on it, just take away the trigger. If.
- [60:07]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [60:07]
B
The biggest problem with photographers, among many, is comparing yourself with others. I'll never be sued, therefore I'll never be happy. Or waking up to Instagram and thumbing photographs and saying, oh, my God, I'll never be good as that person. Well, you're comparing yourself with someone who's been doing it for 10, 20, 30 years. And even if they. You were doing it for 10 and someone did it in one and they're doing better, don't forget, you're looking at a curated version of someone's life. They're showing you their best photograph, their best meal, their best holiday. I don't show photographs of me bawling for an hour because I can't get this stupid sound out of my head, because a dark cloud came over me and I feel lonely. I could be in a room full of a thousand people and I'm the only person hearing it. Therefore, it took me, like, about two years to admit this, that there are times where I feel completely lonely because my cut finger, you can see my bandage on my head or whatever, you can't hear what I hear. And. And it's quite polarizing. So, again, I'm doing better, and I'm getting bigger stretches where I don't allow that dark cloud to come, but it also makes me human. I mean, you know, so those people looking out there that think I have a perfect life, the answer is there is no such thing as perfection. And you have to realize what perfect means to you. And I have an incredible life mainly to do with the relationships that I've manifested and the creativity that I'm allowed to manifest with what I do. But, you know, it's. Don't let that thing that's been crippling you to define you. And like I said, you know, choose to care less about it than try to cope better. Because the best version of coping better, arguably, is still not going to be as successful as moving on to something that's more fruitful, that gives you value. The same way with human beings. If there's a so Called Friend of that does not give you value, then arguably you're looking in the wrong place for your friendships, you know, so.
- [62:06]
A
Yep, absolutely. Well, I just know you have so much wisdom and so much to teach and share with the world, and I'm really curious what you're going to be teaching about on September 1 for the portrait Masters.
- [62:18]
B
Well, look, I'm really excited about it. I'm a huge fan of Sue's journey. I remember, actually, a little anecdote here before I tell you what we're talking about. I remember I was doing a shoot in la, and I was having lunch with Sue, I think, on the day of the shoot, and she was doing her first Creative Live course the day after. And I said, I go, I know the breadth and depth of what you do and what you can do. What are you going to share? And she says, everything that's so soon.
- [62:52]
A
Is so true, because she did.
- [62:54]
B
Oh, my goodness. And then she blew up, and I couldn't be more happy for her. And I can't say that I'm proud of her, because that almost takes ownership away from her success. She should be so proud of herself that there was a fire in her. I remember sitting in a competition in Melbourne and we were watching the judging, and then she was showing me, like, drawings with a pencil that were better than most photographs. And I'm like, man, like, she's just got destiny and written all over her. So I think the fact that she's achieved what she's achieved and she's helped do that for so many people and created a movement and being repopularized, you know, a particular genre in this day and age, I think is incredible. So it was certainly an honor that she asked me to be part of it. But what I thought, I asked her, I said, look, tell me about your audience and tell me who they are and what they need. And she said that the common issues are that people are often intimidated by small spaces. They're intimidated by lack of gear and also being able to create something out of nothing and thinking that it's all about beautiful models. And certainly, you know, she's taken away that notion because she photographs the quote, unquote, common woman, common man, whatever, and knows how to bring out the best in them. But as I really understood what her audience was all about, I thought, I love to take the ordinary to the extraordinary and to shoot purposefully with minimal gear and also being able to sell it. So the title of my talk is Purpose and Profit is shooting with purpose, as in looking at Your location around you, looking at the lighting, making it suit the subject matter that you're photographing and using minimal gear, and then basically being able to shoot with the purpose of selling either wall art. In her case, it's a reveal wall. I know that she's popularized. It could be albums. So I'm going to spend most of my time just shooting in and around Sue's studio in a very minimalistic environment and then being able to import them into a program that shows off how you can actually shoot to sell. Because people think the misnomer is that if you're an artist, you know, you want to make money out of it. That doesn't make you an artist. It's got to be about the love of it. But I'm like, if I want to continue to love what I'm doing and continue to shoot, well, I'd rather be a savvy entrepreneur artist than a struggling, award winning genius who's got no money to rub together, you know what I mean? So it's really about bringing out the best in an ordinary situation, shooting to sell and making it applicable for the audience who's watching.
- [65:25]
A
That's so cool. I cannot wait. You said you were going to import it into a program.
- [65:28]
B
Yeah, so I'm going to use Fundy software. We're going to import it into Fundy. I'm going to show how quickly we can design an album if you shoot with purpose and also show off wall art based upon the subject matter that I'm photographing, so.
- [65:41]
A
Oh, that's so great.
- [65:42]
B
It's just going to be very simple.
- [65:43]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I can't wait to watch you shoot and just, you know, look for, like you said, keeping it simple, which I think people love. You know, just having some simple ideas and just ways to look at the light and the final light and just the simplicity overall, I think it's going to be great. Oh, I can't wait. Very cool.
- [66:03]
B
And the cool thing is that as we're doing it, we'll explain the creative triggers in the environment as I call them, and then we'll cover the five steps to a well crafted photograph, which is for me, light, location, pose, technique, emotion. And I'll go through that over and over again and I'll probably shoot a lot slower than most people would think, but I'll get to the destination usually a lot quicker than people realize. So shooting less, but making them more fruitful and more valuable and yeah, I think will dispel a lot of myths that people have when they start a Photography, as well as give confidence to an experienced photographer on how to maximize what's around them and maximize their profitability when they're selling.
- [66:42]
A
Perfect. Perfect. I can't wait. Again, that's September 21st. So if you haven't gotten your tickets yet, if you're listening, make sure you go ahead and do that because it's just. It's going to be really incredible. Obviously, we had to shift and pivot and not be in person this year, but I think it's going to be even better. We're really bringing in all of the elements that we normally do in person, like cocktail hour. We're going to do on zoom, and we're going to do the. The dance party and everything. It's just gonna be really cool. I'm excited.
- [67:09]
B
Yeah, it'd be awesome. I can't wait.
- [67:11]
A
It's always a good time. Okay, so there are a few questions that I always ask everyone at the end of each episode, and I'm wondering if you'll answer those for me.
- [67:18]
B
I'd love to.
- [67:19]
A
Number one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [67:24]
B
In terms of gear or anything else?
- [67:27]
A
Anything. So some people have said music, some people have said passion, some people have said a reflector. I mean, it could be anything.
- [67:33]
B
Oh, man, there are so many ways of answering that question. For me, I think it's trust. I think. I think trust is the most important thing. And I know that, you know, I could. I could just say lighting and I could plug my ice light, but that'll all be hollow. If someone trusts me, then I can bring out the best in myself and therefore bring out the best in them. And I honestly feel that people have to laugh with you before they cry with you. So once I have that, anything is possible. How you get there, that doesn't really. That could be in any direction. But yeah, trust.
- [68:13]
A
That is such a great answer. You are absolutely right. If your client doesn't trust you, you're done for. And it's up to you for them to earn that trust. I mean, they could come in with having an attitude or super nervous or whatever. It is up to you to make them feel that they can trust you. So. Yeah, I love that you said that. That's great. Okay, number two, how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [68:36]
B
Great question. As a prelude to the answer, Melissa and I have a very, very strict routine. If we don't shoot weddings on the weekends, we do not work. Doesn't matter how Much work we have at 5:00 or 6:00 latest every weekday. We do not work. That's just a rule. No matter how ambitious I am, I'm more ambitious about spending quality time with my family than trying to achieve a different business idea. Because trust me, the email will be there in the morning. But we during COVID what we did is we have a ping pong table. And what we ended up doing is it was actually on the table itself was on top of a billiard table in our garage, which in Vegas, it's hot as hell.
- [69:20]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [69:21]
B
So we moved everything in one of our three spare bedrooms into another bedroom. And we've literally made one of the bedrooms a ping pong room. And Melissa goes, awesome. She goes, can we do that? I'm like, I'm an adult, I can do whatever the hell I want. I want air conditioned ping pong room. So every hour or two to get the blood flowing, to not get brain fry in front of the computer, we will play ping pong. Now, now, I'm a lot better than Melissa, but I'm teaching her. But what we've done is we've created like a handicap for me to make it competitive. So I play my first 10 points with my left hand, then with my right, she gets a 15 point buffer and it's the first to 21. And she's getting really, really good. She's amazing. So we do that.
- [70:09]
A
How fun.
- [70:10]
B
Lately, every night we jump in the pool with the dogs. We have a table, like an inflatable table in the pool. We put on our favorite music. And lately also to distract me from my tinnitus because I found that going from like working and being focused on a lot of stuff, then complete silence is terrible for me. So the transition between work and relax. Lately we've been playing this and I've never ever heard of this game. And a friend of mine introduced me to it. Have you, have you ever heard of Rummy Cube?
- [70:40]
A
Yeah. Runny Cube. I love Runny Cube.
- [70:42]
B
Oh my goodness.
- [70:43]
A
It's been a long time since I've played that.
- [70:45]
B
It's so good. So anyway, so every night we literally will get our favorite drink, we'll put on, you know, with a bit of ice, we'll sit in the pool, the dogs will go in and out of the pool, put our favorite music on, unwind to a couple of games of Rummy Cube. But, you know, that's pretty much it. I love cinema, so I love watching movies. Of course, now it's time. But I Love actually going to the theater. So for me it's sort of like a. The experience of that is really good sport. Anything to do with the ball, I love and I'm quite good at. It's like a good hand eye coordination and fashion. I'm, I just love fashion. I could just walk into a mall and to be honest, look at women's clothing more than men and find my next prop, find my next piece of clothing that I'm going to shoot with. So. But that's a long answer. But that gives you of an idea of what we like to do.
- [71:33]
A
That sounds so fun. What a fun life. That's great. Okay, number three, what's your favorite inspirational quote?
- [71:39]
B
I was thinking about this because there was a bit of a warning of this one coming. I'll give you the first one that came that comes to mind is done is better than perfect. I feel that that really helps me. Although I feel that perfection doesn't exist in the way that people understand what that means. Means like as in perfect means flawless. I just. In our industry, I think perfect means the execution of your desired result. That's for me. But for me, what helps me in life is that, you know. Well, yeah. And I'll give you one of my favorite quotes, one of my personal. I mean, I've got many that I've spewed out over the years in my verbal diarrhea that I've been giving all these years, but I'll give you one of my ones. And I won't say it verbatim because I say it organically in a conversation. But I think creatives are not short of ideas. The problem is committing to one.
- [72:33]
A
Yes, yes, yes.
- [72:36]
B
And that is every creative I meet, they start just because they bounce a lot of ideas off me and they'll mention 300 ideas. I'm like, cut the crap. What are you most passionate about? What's the most fruitful? What's going to be the most efficient, what's going to be the least amount of investment? Combine that together, just friggin commit to one dude. Like it's not that difficult. Yes.
- [72:56]
A
Yep. I love it. I love it. Okay, number four, what would you say to people who are just getting started? And I know you already said a lot of good stuff, but if you had to sum up one thing, I.
- [73:07]
B
Would get everyone who's listening right now to ask themselves a question. Are you a photographer in business or a business person in photography? Very different things. And as a, as a partner to that, and I've said that before, but it'll make sense here. Are you working in your business or on your business? A business owner needs to work on the business. A business person should be a business person. And you happen to be doing photography rather than you're a photographer and you just happen to be doing business.
- [73:38]
A
Yep.
- [73:39]
B
Very, very different ways of looking at it.
- [73:40]
A
Yep, yep. That's a great question to ask. That's for sure. All right, Jerry, where can people find you online other than on September 21st at the portrait Masters conference? If people are looking for you, how can they find you?
- [73:51]
B
Go to jerrygyonis.com so Jerry with a J. So J E R R Y G H I O n I s jerryguyonis.com you can visit My Folio for weddings and portraits. Jerry Gionas Photography. If you want fashion, go to Jerry Gnos Photography. Prefer if you want to learn online from me, gionas.com There's a lot of entities. Nikki.
- [74:14]
A
Yeah, no, yeah, this is good. This is good.
- [74:17]
B
Lots of stuff. Yeah.
- [74:18]
A
Cool. Well, thank you again for chatting with me. It's totally an honor. I've seen you speak a gazillion times and yeah, very, very cool to chat with you.
- [74:26]
B
Thank you so much. Been an absolute pleasure. And I can't wait to see you guys at the conference virtually.
- [74:33]
A
Take care.
- [74:34]
B
All right, bye. Bye.
- [74:35]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to sue brice education.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that's Sue Bryce education dot com.