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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com sign up and and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
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B
There are other people who need to do fashion photography and they need to do crazy lighting. Da da. But I just want to focus on a portrait photographer makes flattering images that sell then lighting has always been the thing that unlocks that for me.
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A
Welcome to the Portrait System Podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportrasystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey everyone, it's Nikki Klosser here. And my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Felix Kunz. Felix dropped some serious gold during this episode and he even shares what his business model is now and what it has always been. Felix also talks about how simple lighting truly can be, even if it feels so daunting and hard. Felix is the type of educator who breaks things down in a way that you will actually understand, and I'm so happy to have him back on the podcast. Okay, let's get started with Felix Kuntz. Felix Koons. Welcome back to the Portrait System. How are you?
- [02:06]
B
I'm good. Thank you for having me. It's nice to be back.
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A
I know it's been a long time, so I kind of want to. I want to check in with you, obviously, and See what's going on. And I know you have some new things to teach and talk about and all the good things, but for people who may not know who you are, I just want to give people just an overall breakdown of who you are. I mean, I know you are one of the best lighting photographers in the world. You've mastered lighting. But I know that it wasn't like it didn't just happen overnight that you had success and turned into a, you know, a successful photographer. So can you just take us back a little bit to where you started?
- [02:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things I like to sort of preface with is, you know, I've gotten, like, I'll explain this, but I've gotten to be known for kind of how I light my subjects, and I teach that as well. But I kind of feel like I wanted to explain to people based on my background, that because the photography industry can be really, like, elitist in a way, you know? But I was born in Communist East Germany, and when I was 10, my family would move to England. You know, that's not like Nepo baby scenario is what I'm trying to say.
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A
Right? Right.
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B
And so that's why I have this ridiculous accent. And then at one point in my 20s, I started coming to New York, and I ended up moving to New York and ended up assisting some of the top photographers in the world through sheer luck and determination. Again, not through familial connections or anything like that. So I've got. It's kind of weird because I have, like, a background that didn't really point me in that direction, but I ended up learning from really at the very top of the industry and realizing how simple lighting actually is, which is what I've been yelling from the rooftops for the last ten years or so.
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A
Right.
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B
Because people make it so complicated.
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A
Backing up your accent is not ridiculous. I just want to say that I feel like mine is ridiculous. My, like, Michigan, I'm going to have a salad with my mom. I'm so excited. So I think we all have that, like, feeling that our voice sounds weird. Anyways, it doesn't. And then also something you just said, that you make lighting really easy. And that is absolutely true with the way you teach. I love it so, so, so much. And I know that there are a lot of important parts to photography. The connection you make with people, the way you direct and pose people, your settings. I mean, there's so many important parts. But lighting, man, it can really make or break your portraits in so many different ways.
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B
There's a great quote, I don't know who maybe it was Avedon or Irving Penn or someone. One of the really successful fashion photographers of the 70s, I think, 60s or 70s. And he said something like, the camera just gets in the way. And I think the same is true for lighting. And it's same is true for all the technical stuff. You know, I think all. You know, I know there's a lot of people who want to do portrait photography that listen to this. And at the end of the day, portrait photography is about the person in front of the camera, right? Everything that's magic happens between the photographer and the person in front of the camera. And so I think the process of becoming a successful photographer and feeling confident in your craft, which is, by the way, I don't feel that even, because I'm definitely, you know, I still get really nervous, is about mastering and getting past the camera settings, getting past the, the lighting or any of the technical things that happen, you know. And what I sort of learned, the simplicity of it is really true. It does end up being about the person in front of you and how you work with them, how you pose them, how you direct them. And so when it comes to lighting, that's always been my mantra. Like if I create either natural light, which I hardly do, because I want to always add production value. Like, I want to do things that other people couldn't necessarily do in that same situation. It's one of those things that I want to get out of the way so I can focus on the person in front of me. And I know that so many people learning photography stay away from studio light because it feels like something that just gets in the way, you know, natural light. I remember this with when. So I taught Sue Brice artificial light after her like 27, 28 years of shooting only natural light.
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A
I remember that right.
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B
That was a claim to fame for me because it was a big deal. She had rejected and resisted it for so long. And I remember her saying, like, oh, if you're shooting natural light, you just move your subject around the light. And when we shoot studio, we move the light around the subject. And it's kind of a different mindset. But yeah, that's the long answer to your question.
- [07:33]
A
And I want to clarify. When you said you want to get lighting out of the way, I'm wondering if you're talking about just knowing exactly where to put the lights, how bright to light it. You know, I almost feel like there's a super simple system and if you practice it over and over in different situations, it becomes where it's not an issue anymore. It's out of the way. Now you know your lighting, you've got it dialed in. You know exactly what to do. Now you can focus on getting that expression and the pose or whatever it is that you wanted without having to stress about, is my lighting gonna be right?
- [08:06]
B
Exactly. And this is. We're diving here into the deep end of my lighting philosophy. But it's what I've. Because I've been teaching now for, I think, coming on 12 years. What I realized, because I've not really watched other people's classes, I just do my own thing. And what I realized is different about what I do versus what other people do is I create an area where light works so that if my subject moves, it doesn't matter. They can. They still look good. Whereas other people create lighting setups and then have very specific poses in mind that work. And if the model moves or tries to do anything else, or your subject moves or tries to do anything else, you kind of get lost because there's no nowhere for you to go. I think that's kind of the difference. It's a big statement, but it's also hard to explain in an audio format how to do that. You know, it's like talking about photographs versus showing photographs.
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A
Yeah, it's tricky, but we're going to. Yeah, we're going to dive into that. Like, it's exactly, you know, for people who don't know, you do have, you know, you're a lighting instructor and in fact, you have a new course out right now. So just quickly tell us about that and then we'll go back into all the nitty gritty.
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B
Yeah, I don't wanna. I wanna chat in stories, not just sale.
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A
No, I know, I know, but same. Cause that's not what this podcast is about. But I just. I do wanna mention it because I'm such a visual learner and being able to watch an instructor and see exactly what they're doing is super beneficial. So just quickly tell us what this course is about and then we'll get back into everything else.
- [09:50]
B
Okay, perfect. Well, I'll do that. It's called Lighting for everyone. And it's called Lighting for Everyone. It's a sort of double meaning because it's for any photo, no matter where you're at, we keep it. You know, it's a. It's a great barrier of entry is very low. You need to have a camera and one light and you're good to Go. And it's also because the lighting, especially the signature light and the wraparound light, which are innovations that are so simple and blow everyone's minds when they watch it. They really flatter everyone. And that means any age, you know, you can do groups with the wraparound light. And to learn what that is, you'll have to get the class. It's called Lighting for Everyone. And it's my second studio lighting class. And you know, I've been, I'll just tell you a little insight on this. I taught. Anyone that's been following me knows I taught some in person workshops. And you know, I'm always very flattered about the demand. I do them very rarely. In 2023, 2024, I taught a couple of in person workshops. And what I was doing is I had an idea in my head for a class that I think would work really for everyone at any experience level in photography. And I had kind of my sister in mind. She's not a professional photographer. She's never taken a professional photograph because she's not a professional photographer. And if I gave her a camera and a light, I feel like would she, having known nothing else, be able to light beautifully? And that's the class I made. So for anyone that's already, that's wanting to go from I've only ever shot natural light or I'm starting as a photographer, this is the class that leads in for everyone. So we tested this on photographers because lighting can be intuitive and the moment it breaks down for people is when they a get terrible results. Because the way people teach lighting is frankly, quite garish to me. If you go to college and you get taught lighting, it's rough. It's not like you set up your lights, you try what they teach you and it just looks horrible. Or someone throws just a bunch of words at you and expects you to become a magician or a math whiz in five seconds and makes you feel badly for not being one of those things or not knowing the words. I don't do that. I don't throw a bunch of jargon at you. And then thirdly, they just skip past the basics. And I remember there's a thing called tethering. Tethering means you connect your camera via a cable to the computer so that when you shoot your images immediately show up on the computer. It's nicer to review them on the computer than on the back of the camera. I remember when I was first learning, someone's like, okay, good, so you just tether and then they just Moved on to the next thing. And I'm like, what is tethering? And when I googled it, it was like everyone just assumed you already knew, you know, And I, so I, I think that happens a lot when people are learning lighting because they just start you off like, okay, here's the modifier and you're gonna do this and you're gonna do that and you're like, well, I don't even know what the modifier is. Yeah, what does it do? And you know, but also then when you do learn those things, it just gets into ratios and promises from manufacturers. And these promises from the manufacturers are aimed at more experienced photographers. So the class lighting for everyone gets into all of this foundation, but also makes it much more simple. Because if you're a natural light photographer and you photograph by the light of an open north facing window on a gloomy day, and you get the most beautiful soft light, there is no modifier that does that. So when you then there's no light shaper that does that. So when you then go into the studio and you think, I think this is such a universal experience. You go into the studio, you've got experience in natural light. And then you go into the studio and you get this, you buy a light shaper, modifier, whatever, and it doesn't match anything that you know in natural light. And then you start to feel bad and you think that you're not good at it. And your work looks so much like it was shot in the studio. But I turn this on its head. Cause I kind of feel like if you're under, in the direct sun, you know how hard that light is. And then if you step into the shade of a tree or a building, you know how like immediately gets really soft. Well, let's think about what happens when you step into the shade of a tree on a sunny day. You've cut the sun from hitting your subject. Not you step into, but the subject steps into. Right. As when you're photographing or into the shade of an open shade next to a building or something. Well, you no longer have the direct hard light on you, but what you do get is billions and trillions of bits of light bouncing off everything else. Right. So if you're like if you're in a city or a town and you are standing, you stand your subject under an awning. Think about what they are being lit by. They're being lit by everything that reflects everywhere around you in the environment.
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A
For sure. Yeah, right.
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B
So then you go into the studio and someone shows You a light shaper, that's like a tulip shaped thing that you're supposed to point at someone and achieve the same thing. Well, it's a lie.
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A
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a different shape. It's. It's. Yeah, it's. Yeah. Sorry.
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B
So it's not. Yeah, it's. It's. It's not the sun and it's not what's happening when you step into beautiful light. Like any photographer that does, like seniors or anything, natural light knows the spots that work. Right. I know. Nikki, you have this right with your work. You know that if you go, you have, I think you have a field by your house that you know, has beautiful light at certain time of day.
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A
Exactly. Yep. Wildflower field.
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B
Yeah, wildflower field. Nothing about that is a modifier that's either a softbox or an octave box or a tulip shape. Any of those pointed at the subject. So no wonder when you go into the studio and you try that and you just feel disappointed because it's a lie. So lighting for everyone starts with the concept of what happens when we step from the direct sun into the shade of a tree. Right. Or into your tulip field, into your flower field behind your house or whatever, or next to the window to make that light so soft and dynamic and have such depth. And then how do we create that in the studio in the simplest way possible. In fact, my favorite lighting setup is a one light setup. You don't even need a modifier. And it's called the wraparound light setup. And it's absolutely astounding how well it works. And it kind of takes this concept and it's so simple and you don't need a bunch of gear.
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A
And it's so nice that once you learn it, you always have that option. I mean, if you want to be outside and shooting in natural light, great. But if you're in a situation where you can't be, you don't have to panic. I remember before I learned lighting, when I would get clients that wanted to shoot like in their office, I'd like start sweating like, oh, God, what does it look like in there? Is there, Are there windows? Are there? You know, how am I going to manage this? Whereas when you have this tool in your tool belt, it just makes it so much less stressful. You can say yes to so much more work. It's less complicated. And then you can focus on the other things that make or break your shoots.
- [17:45]
B
And it feels good, right? It feels good. And when I was learning this, I Remember, I had finally gotten a friend of mine, knew a photographer, and she was trying to get him to take me on set to assist. And I remember he took. We had a call and he goes, this is the hardest you're ever gonna work in your entire life. And he's like, you're gonna need to know everything about the lights we're using. Da, da, da. And I was just like, I don't want to do that at all.
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A
Wow, that sounds terrifying.
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B
Yeah, I'm excited about photography. I don't. I'm not excited about lights.
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A
Absolutely. Wow.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. Okay, I want to back up a little bit. You said when you moved to New York, you started assisting some of the best photographers out there, you know, in the industry.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Or just some of the top name sort of things. And you said you did it with sheer determination and luck.
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B
Yes.
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A
So for someone who is like, okay, how do I find, you know, just people to assist or find gigs that will give me the experience I need and start, you know, just building the portfolio or just getting to know other people and other contacts so that they can start kind of moving up in the industry and booking their own clients?
- [19:03]
B
Yeah. It's like I was single and, you know, I was broke, but I could. I had met someone in New York, a friend of a friend who agreed to put me on the sofa. That took ages to find out, to find. Like, I was just like digging around, trying to find connections. But, you know, the. The. I'll back up a little bit. Photography is the biggest hobby in the world, right? It is the most popular hobby in the world. And I'd always, never found it difficult to find other people who have this hobby. And very early on, I remember, and it was like the same story of this photographer who I was gonna assist. There was an animosity from him towards me coming in as another photographer. There was so weird tension. And I remember people photographers had, like, closely guarded themselves. I remember there was a photographer in London who charged people money to assist him.
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A
Oh, my gosh.
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B
Because he felt like it was going to be such a learning. And I thought that was so scummy. And so I decided very early on, well, hang on this idea that me, let's say I'm in a town and there's five working photographers. I want to be all of their friends, right. Not compete with them because I don't need someone else to fail for myself to succeed. So I could just be their friend. So the long story really is that the way I ended up falling into these opportunities is through actually another portrait system instructor, Lara Jade, who I had met through being a photographer and wanting to.
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A
One of the nicest human beings in the world, just throwing that out there.
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B
One of the nicest doings in the world. And her class is the fashion series, I think, and then the business of fashion photography. And she's an amazing instructor too. But it wasn't like Lara Jade is so powerful. It was, oh, I wanted, I was really keen to help other photographers and trade assisting time. So Lara and I have become close friends over the years and she had been in New York and you know, she just knew people and that's how it goes. Right. But so this is why I say photography is the biggest hobby in the world because that's a subject that more people want to talk about casually and socially in the world than any other subject. So finding other photographers and being friends with other photographers has always led to the biggest opportunities.
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A
So agreed.
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B
Back in the day, I was mobile, I was single, I could go to New York if I wanted to. I found the sofa to stay on. I was, I was eating cheap, I was lodging cheap, you know, I stayed on sofas for like a year. But that's not, I recognize that's not an opportunity for everyone, which is why I made, I started teaching, you know, I was like, oh, I think there is so much I'm learning in New York at the top of the industry. That is simple. So it's not like we're showing trade secrets, it's just we're showing. Hey, guys. It's simpler than you think.
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A
I love that. And it is, it is simpler. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
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B
No, no, sorry. I just was like thinking if I had answered your question about how to get those assisting opportunities and assisting was so great for me and I think the role of a photo assistant full time doesn't exist in every market and it isn't for everyone. But I don't with sort of this world has become democratized with the classes that people like me and Lara have put out and they are really valuable in a way that didn't exist when I was learning photography. So I had to assist.
- [23:06]
A
Right, that makes sense. That makes sense. And that was going to be my next statement is you don't have to go out and assist other photographers in order to have a successful business. You don't. I mean, you need to dial in your portfolio, your marketing, the whole business side of things for sure, but you don't need to. I never did that. I mean, I did it for experience, on occasion, just to get a feel for things. Like I assisted someone on a wedding for free, you know. Oh, but gosh, so much of it was me begging neighbors, old coworkers, anyone I could get in front of my camera so that I could practice. I feel like that's really what it came down to, was practicing as much as I could. And then once I started to get better, using those photos for my portfolio, then dialing in the marketing and it just kind of skyrocketed from there. I mean, marketing is crucial, but if. And you don't have to. I always say this. You don't have to be the best photographer in the world. You really don't. I mean, I'm like an average photographer, whatever, but I've made, you know, seven figures in this business, even though I'm, you know, I'm okay. It's, it's so much of it goes into the marketing. However, you can't be a shitty photographer either. You know, people aren't going to hire you if your portfolio. Portfolio isn't flattering to the people who you're photographing. If your lighting really sucks and you're highlighting parts of people that isn't. Doesn't look good. It's, you know. You know what I mean?
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B
You bring me beautifully into what I'm trying to say. But let me just say one other thing about the assisting thing. And I was going to say this is. You reminded me, trading time with other photographers in your area to say, hey, if you need help on a shoot, let me know. Because is a gift. Because if you want to, and you just get into the mindset of serving that person, when you go on shoot, it's not about you, it's about them making their shoot successful. That is such a powerful, powerful experience. And like, I still try to, like, work with other photographers that I know because then I see how they're doing it and that's always, always great. You learn so much from that.
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A
Absolutely. And doing it for free, I mean, not expecting to get paid for it. And even things like making sure they have water or have they eaten or whatever. Like, like really being there for them and serving them is just, it's, yeah.
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B
It, it's a wonderful, wonderful way to build.
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A
And I've had people reach out, like, saying, you know, can I just come watch you? Or, you know, be a fly on the wall. And it's like, no, no, that's not how it works.
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B
You need to, you need to. If you, yeah. Just be there for the person to Help them. A random body sitting in the corner is very awkward for everybody.
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A
It's awkward for the client for like I can't just have random people in the studio while I'm this paying client is. But if you're assisting me. Oh yeah, you know, but I also, it's, it's, you know, you can't necessarily stop in the middle of a paid photo shoot and explain what you're doing because then it's, it just takes away from the client experience and that whole thing. Which is why there also is so much value in doing a mentoring session with someone where they can teach you. So.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah, but it's a big, big conversation. I think if, you know, let's take this to the person that might be. If you're listening to this and you want to, you know, all of us are trying to be better photographers. In my class. I kind of like, we have. The first segment is like the one light. You know how to. It talks about modifiers and we talk about all of that. And then at the end of each segment I say like, please find another photographer in your area and practice this with them. And it's a mutual exchange. Don't use your family as test subjects or God forbid, your pets because you're then dealing with the emotions slash the no attention from your pets as the problem. But it like it goes to a deeper thing. Right. Like you're saying, if I was wanting to learn more about photography, like this assisting thing going to other people in your area that are not necessarily you don't. It doesn't have to be someone who is further ahead than you. If you're two people starting out, working with each other, assisting each other, that is so valuable. But you have to come at it with. When I'm on that job, I'm doing everything I can to help that photographer. It's not about me. It's not about stopping them halfway while they're shooting a client and asking them questions about what they're doing. It's only about serving that photographer. So now I will still shoot like if I shoot work that I do for zero budget, like I do, you know, stuff with my, with this organization called the Explorers Club. I shoot that for free because I want to help them. And then I will still ask people to assist for me on a no pay basis. And then I do make sure like at the end that I take time and say, hey, what did you want to ask? But not during and try to teach them about that. But to your main question when you're building Your portfolio or what you are shooting and trying to improve. Yeah. You said the portfolio has to be flattering. Right. But actually, I take it a step further back because there's no accounting for taste and people's taste is different. There's also the difference between different markets. You know, if you're in Europe, it's the output of your photography that's going to be enjoyed by the subject, by the audience is going to be different than if you're in the US in the same. Different. You know, New York has a different aesthetic. LA has a different aesthetic. Chicago or, you know, different. Whatever town you're in has a different aesthetic and what clients value. So there's this book called On Being a Photographer. On Being a Photographer. It really established the kind of framework of how I build my career. And it gives this very simple formula, which is find something you're interested in and you know something about. So if that's, you know, I'm interested in conservation and science. So I ended up photographing a lot of those kind of people. And that's kind of. That's how I've built my career. Right. Like now I have clients in the space industry, for example, through that. And then photographing it well. And then the third step, we're just going to skip some right over the second step, which is photographing it well. And we're going to go to the third step, which is getting it in front of an audience that appreciates it. That's my entire business model. Photographing something I'm interested in, good at, like knowing something about it does not. Not good at photography. But like, I'm interested and can engage with people in conservation and science because I'm interested photographing it and getting it in front of an audience that appreciates it. So the best example that they give in the book is a mother photographing her child on the beach. She's the best photographer in the world because she matches. She satisfies the first condition. She knows her subject intimately, then she photographs it, and then the intended audience, which is her family, appreciates that photograph. Absolutely right. So that's a mother photographing her baby on the beach and sharing those pictures with her family is the most complete, perfect example of the point of photography.
- [31:10]
A
Exactly.
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B
Now, you'll notice that the technical aspect of the photography is not focused on at all in this example. And that's the point. Right. If you're a portrait photographer, let's say you photograph seniors or weddings and you really love working with seniors, you know their interests because you've been working in this field. You were once a senior yourself or you have children who are seniors. Great. You have an insight that me, Felix doesn't have. So you're going to be better at that part. And then you photograph it. Great. That is, there's a lot to that second step, but let's just skip right past it because when you put it on your socials, on your websites or whatever, and it is appreciated either by the client that you're working for directly or a larger audience in your town, you have a successful career. The bit in between where you're. The photographing, it itself sort of falls away when you have those other things in place. And I like to remind people of that because if, let's say your audience isn't appreciating the work and therefore not hiring you, then you need to change something about how you are photographing it.
- [32:30]
A
I love that.
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B
You see, I'm saying like it's absolutely.
- [32:33]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50 off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50 off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success. And it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. And that goes back to. You don't have to be the best photographer in the world as long as you're audience is appreciating it and hiring you. But like you said, if it's not happening. Yeah, you have to change either the way you're photographing. And also there is that piece where people might, the audience might appreciate it, but they're not getting themselves out to the audience.
- [33:41]
B
Exactly.
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A
So I feel like there's those two.
- [33:43]
B
Pieces and it connects perfectly into what you were saying about marketing. Right. And portfolio. But I think that. So, you know, I remember when I first came to New York, the way I would get my work out to audiences because I needed clients was I would beg and steal and borrow. What's the word? Beg? Steal, Borrow. No, beg to beg, borrow and steal to Shoot events for free because it got me in front of a lot of people, Right. And I was building that audience. And then I would shamelessly send them my portfolio and some of them even hired me. And I think it had more to do with the gumption of it, you know, the not being scared. But I think, you know, I have a Facebook group, Lighting with Felix, where we answer lighting questions for free. And it's really a very popular group. We have a no nasty people policy. I kick nasty people out on the first strike, no questions asked.
- [34:45]
A
Good.
- [34:46]
B
And there's a thing that sometimes happens, and the reason I don't give critique, people ask me for critique. And what I think people are really asking is a very natural thing, which is, am I good enough? And I always say the same thing, hey, are your subjects the intended audience, appreciating your work, yes or no? If they're not, it doesn't matter about. It's not a binary value proposition. Are you good enough? It just matters. Are you taking the steps to take that feedback? If you're not making sales, that's a feed, but a feedback that you can use to say, ah, something in my work needs to improve. Right. So the way it's always tied in for me is I've always said, well, we have. When you take a person and you photograph them, the thing that they always want, that will never go out of style, that no AI can replace, is a flattering photograph of a person is always, always, always going to be in demand. It doesn't. I remember the first thing before I knew Sue Bryce, the first thing I ever heard her say, and it sticks with me so much, she goes, you have a family you're photographing, and the kids. And she makes like a funny face. The kids look like this, you know, and she goes, but mom looks hot. She's going to buy that picture. And I thought, oh, that's so interesting. And it's true. Like, as long as you can make flattering images of your subjects, you have a career. So that depends so much on your interaction with the subjects because they need to be moderately comfortable or into it, you know, like, involved. And so lighting has always opened that door for me because if I can simply, very simply create something that is flattering, not dramatic, cinematic, blah, blah, no, just flattering. Very simple, very simple. Like, there are other people who need to do fashion photography and they need to do crazy lighting and da, da. But I just want to focus on a portrait photographer makes flattering images that sell.
- [37:00]
A
I love that.
- [37:00]
B
Then lighting has always Been the thing that unlocks that for me. And then all I need to work on is getting them in the door, getting them comfortable through posing. By the way, I've never subscribed to the idea that the best photograph is where the subject is comfortable. I think the best photograph is where the subject is involved and committed to doing it. Because I will tell them when they're like, oh, it's so uncomfortable. I say, it's the performance you need to perform, please.
- [37:31]
A
I always say, I'll say, listen, I know this feels awkward, but just go with it. You gotta trust me. And they laugh and they get it, you know, and I'll say, don't move. You know, and they'll kind of look. And I'll say, unless you're cramping, don't move. Let me get the shot.
- [37:44]
B
Even then, you know.
- [37:46]
A
Yeah. Beauty is pain.
- [37:48]
B
No, I remember I did a. I don't want to call out the client's name, but a very high profile suit for a TV show, like for the COVID art, you know, and I had like been posing this, you know, and this is. Was an talent, was a professional. And I've been posing them with her husband on this piece of gardening equipment and posing and posing. And she's just doing it, doing it. And then she finally goes, oh, thank God. She gets up and she's like my. But is so sore. And I said, oh, I'm sorry, did I make you pose funny? She goes, I've been sitting on a 2 inch vault.
- [38:26]
A
Oh my.
- [38:27]
B
I just remember like she was committed, you know, and I admired it greatly. I was like, oh, you could have told me. But like this idea that people have to be comfortable. Yeah. You should make, make them feel like they emotionally comfortable.
- [38:42]
A
Sure.
- [38:43]
B
Yeah. But the idea that a photo shoot is an organic natural experience is false.
- [38:48]
A
I know. I used to, back when I used to shoot weddings and I'd have people reach out saying they want candid wedding photos. And I'm like, no you don't. And they're like, what? And I would say, listen, I can show you some full on candid photos and it's not pretty. And I said that what you see on my website that looks candid, unless it was during a toast or the first dance or something like that, anything that looks candid is not. I am giving them direction the entire time and making it look candid.
- [39:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's hard. Right? But it is. I agree. So it comes back around to kind of your portfolio isn't about is it good enough or not. It's about, is it getting you where you want it to be, right? Where you want to be. Is it getting you clients? And then it's not. It's never going to be a question of, oh, are your photos good enough? It's just, are you serving what the client needs? Right. Like, I don't think of myself as some sort of savant of photography or some amazing at all. At all. But it seems to work. So I just carry on doing the same thing, you know, I'm getting booked.
- [40:01]
A
Well, moving back to what you said about find something that interests you, that's important to you or whatever. Like, I found out pretty early in my career how much I enjoyed helping other entrepreneurs make more money through their photos. Like, to help them create better marketing. I connect well with other people, like going to networking groups and that sort of thing. That was my jam. Even though it was stressful and hard sometimes, but that I found that I loved when I saw someone use their photos that I took of them on their website or in their social media and just saw their business grow because their marketing was more dialed in and that sort of thing. And that was ultimately the route that I took in my, you know, mostly in my career was personal branding because it was. So I just. It lit me up to just see these women. And then it was connecting to my audience because there were so many other people that, like in the groups and on Facebook, whatever that could relate to that. Like, oh, I'm a small business owner. Look at Jessica's photos, you know, or look at Julie's photos. Like, I want that. And they were connecting to that. And that's, I mean, truly how it took off because I was connecting to that audience and they were seeing something that I had that they wanted.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah, it's a, you know, there's a lot to it, but it's a very simple formula. At the end of the day, by the way, my marketing. I am awful. I really have no great. I know people who, in my. Like, because now my own last few years, my career has sort of rejigged into more commercial photography.
- [41:35]
A
Yeah. You did a mobile cover.
- [41:36]
B
Yes.
- [41:37]
A
That's pretty amazing.
- [41:38]
B
Talk about that. But I don't send out, like, flyers or anything like that. You know, all the things that other people do. And I'm. I don't know, it's. I don't think, you know, you. There is so much marketing advice that I have taken over time. You know, there's great resources online for that, but like photographing something you're passionate about Photographing it in a way that people want, like, that's what's needed and wanted. That's it, right? And getting it in front of the right audience.
- [42:10]
A
You know, the other thing I wanted to say is that don't feel like you have to look like everybody else. I've had. I do. In the summer. I love growing wildflowers, and I do. I love photographing high school seniors. I just don't make it my end all Be all. Because I don't want to lose my whole summer, you know, shooting. Like, I just. I can't. Well, physically I can't, because my kids.
- [42:33]
B
You have a family too.
- [42:34]
A
Yeah, and my kids don't have school in the summer, so I usually do, like, 10 to 12 senior shoots per summer, and sometimes a little bit more. It just depends. But I had two clients specifically say to me, the mothers of the client say, like, when we. Finally. When we came across your work, it was so refreshing. She's like, so many of the senior photographers look exactly the same with this kind of, like, desaturated, washed out. They. You know, they're all just the same, you know, and she's like, we saw yours.
- [43:08]
B
Train tracks.
- [43:10]
A
Well, yeah, and that. And they said. We were like, yes, like this. Finally. Like, it's. It's just something different. So don't. When you. When you're looking at the people that you are, you know, you think they're crushing it and this and that, and, you know, you're trying to make your work look like theirs. Just be really careful about that, you know, because it's. I don't know, it can just lead you down a path where you. You don't even really love your work, or, you know, you just start to look like everyone else, and then people are just gonna go with the cheapest one who looks like everyone else. And it.
- [43:41]
B
You know, that's true. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. I think people. It's. It's like, Nikki, if you imagine music, right? I remember having this conversation with myself in my, like, late teens. Am I listening to this? Because I heard it on the radio, Because I actually like it. And then that, for me, opened up, like, listening to. I'm not a big jazz fan, but, like, jazzier stuff. Listening to classical music. Like, what is it making me feel? Not what am I being told to feel.
- [44:16]
A
Mm. That's.
- [44:17]
B
I use music as the example.
- [44:18]
A
That's very powerful to think of it that way.
- [44:20]
B
And photography, it's a. It's. I think One of the biggest challenges we have as human beings is what do we like about a photograph that isn't just prescribed for us as how it should be? So again, in my Facebook group, I ask when people are like, do you like this? I just, I ask them, do you, do you like it?
- [44:45]
A
That's what the question should be. Yeah.
- [44:47]
B
Yeah. And it's really a hard question to answer because we layer so much of the feedback we've gotten from other people, so much of the critiques and even client feedback onto our images. And if you look at the history of great photographers, they're the ones who've always done their own thing. You know, one of the photographers I really admire, Annie Leibovitz, fantastic. If you buy her books and you really look at the images, so much is out of focus, but it's beautiful. And so yet in the narrative of when we are learning photography, it's, we get told, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus. And you're a bad photographer if it's not in focus. Well, heck, I'll be the cheap Annie Leibovitz any day. You know, if I like. It's like, it's so hard what you're describing, like, really having that feedback loop with yourself of saying, oh, this is what I actually want to do.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah. I've never had a client say they didn't want the photo because it was too soft, like the focus wasn't tack sharp or because a finger was cut off or, you know, the rules, you know, yeah, rules are good, but they're also, you know, I'm not going to enter something like that in a, in an awards competition. But my clients, they don't care about the rules.
- [46:13]
B
No. You know, that's what we also try to do in the Facebook group. You know, like, keep in mind, like, this is something that only photographers care about. And you can tell the kind of people that give that kind of feedback and they usually will behave. When I say, like, hey, don't state your opinion as a fact, you know, if the client bought the image, it's a perfect image. Like, if the photographer booked a job based on that image, it's a perfect image. There is. You cannot fault it.
- [46:41]
A
Right.
- [46:42]
B
You know, if 900 people out of a thousand think that your work is bad, but you're booked and busy and you can support your family and you're living in abundance, we can't fault your work.
- [46:53]
A
There you go. Exactly.
- [46:55]
B
It doesn't matter.
- [46:55]
A
Exactly. I love how you are as a teacher. You really make people think and I know you and I, obviously, we're always still growing as photographers, but I think something we both focus on is growing as instructors, you know, and how can we take all of the experience that we've had, good and bad, and really put it into something important? And like when I was saying before how people want to be a fly on the wall, there is some value to that. Like in my. When so many people were saying that, I was like, okay, for my personal branding course, I'm going to photograph real live client shoots that people can watch.
- [47:28]
B
Right.
- [47:29]
A
Which is great. And I know you do that with your courses. People can be in a fly in the wall, they can see it happening in real time, which is great. All of that, I think, has so much value, whether you're looking at someone online and you really like their work or whatever, but also just going back to everything we just talked about, make sure it's something that you feel good about and that you really love. And if people are booking and buying, who cares what anyone else is doing? I mean, really, that's what it comes down to. Yeah, yeah.
- [48:03]
B
That's like the genuinely has been my business model of just. That's it. Like, it's as simple as that. And it. Nikki, you know, you mentioned this earlier. I never in a million years would have thought that it would lead to me photographing the COVID of the September issue of Vogue. Pretty remarkable, you know, because I think so many people will empathize with this. I had come to New York, you know, again, sleeping on sofas, eating leftovers, et cetera, relying on kindness of friends, of friends, and ended up doing some assisting work and learning a lot. And then I really was like, it changed so much of how I was thinking about photography. And then I always joke, which is true, joke. I did nothing of value for years, but I always thought about this formula of photographing something you care about and getting it in front of the right people. And, you know, we are lucky because when, for example, if I send out a newsletter to people like clients, I have an image. I don't have to use words. I have an image. I don't have to write something that they're never going to read, even if they look at the image for 0.10 seconds, it's good enough. But anyway, I always describe it as an act of faith in myself, that if I just light people beautifully and I keep trying to improve in different ways, you know, whether it's like, technically or with my interaction or posing or whatever, or with lighting. And if I just Keep doing that. And I keep being a friendly, easy to work with person. I work on trying to be happy so that my output is happy. And I have that conversation with myself about try to do my own thing without following trends, without following what other people say I should do. Just go with what I feel is right. That's a difficult thing. Then it would work out. When I look back 15 years ago when I was starting and I was like, hey, I'm going to serve my community. I'm going to assist other photographers. I'm just going to do this as an act of faith. I feel like it's going to work. And then it wouldn't for years. And then I just kept saying, okay, if I keep making flattering work, then I will keep getting hired and it will get to the right people to have it end up in photographing a book cover or having a successful commercial career or any of this. I look back at that and I go, how did that happen? It just seems unreal to me. But it's been. It's an incredibly simple formula that has resulted in great results. I can't reconcile it. I can't go back and say, oh, this is the steps. It's just this magic to me. And I think it's kind of like that's how I approach lighting too, when I teach, right? It's you do a simple thing and you look for a specific simple result and you can kind of ignore everything else. You can ignore, oh, the what seconds of this light and the shape of the flashbulb and, oh, my God, like, that's not how I teach lighting at all. No, you know, it's like, how do we do something that's going to flatter your clients? That's simple, that you can do in any space that you get the results you want so that you can focus on the person in front of the camera and you can let them move if need be. I feel like that's a formula that works. And, you know, I know, I know photographers, Nikki, who took my class, and they like, there's 10 segments, 11 segments in my class. They watch just one, and they built an entire career off it. You know, Christina Whitefield talks about that.
- [51:47]
A
Like, yeah, it's amazing.
- [51:48]
B
She was like, oh, well, I just needed the one thing. And then Lions just loved it so much. And I'm like, oh, that makes me so happy. And I don't teach in a way that makes it so that everyone's work ends up being the same, because you still have the ability just to. It's just a flatter your clients. And the rest is we're going to help you get that solid foundation, you know.
- [52:08]
A
Well, one more question before we move on, just for time's sake, for the last four questions that I always ask at the end is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say your one light setup, it doesn't have to be this like, you know, couple thousand dollar light. Like it can literally be any light.
- [52:25]
B
If anyone who is interested watches my Lighting for everyone class, if you only have half an hour, watch the wraparound one light or the wraparound light. I think it's called segment. You can do it with just the light on a stand with no modifier, no light shaper at all.
- [52:48]
A
Incredible.
- [52:49]
B
And it's gorgeous. Gorgeous. It's so cool. Unbelievable. Clients love it and it works for everyone. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's. I don't know. I haven't watched other people's classes necessarily. You know, I like learned from as I described, but I saw people do things at the top of the industry. Nikki was like, holy, holy moly. That is so simple and so beautiful. And I don't need all of this other stuff. And so I'll tell a little story about the Vogue cover. Okay, first of all, obviously it's a big shoot, right? There's a lot of people. I worked with the director, Baz Luhrmann, he directed it, I photographed it. We had a budget for equipment and it was big, you know, it like felt huge. And I was initially hired in to do the lighting and to run the set. And it's like we can get into that another time, like the intricacies of that. So we were in a big studio with lots of people and I had my assistant there and we were trying to figure out the lighting for the COVID and we were doing all this complicated stuff and in the end, it just wasn't working. So in the end I just said, let's do what I teach in the small space, this video from Lighting for everyone and let's just do that. And so we ended up in this huge stage. Sounds like a, you know, studio space. Making a small space using V flats, which are like bounce boards, eight by four foot bounce boards. And lighting it like you would in a tiny, tiny, tiny studio. And it was like, oh, right. Because I've got. What I teach in my class is so foundational and so basic. And it works that you end up. It works so much better in small spaces than in giant spaces. And then the other Thing, because we did, like, 13 looks during that day, is I always joke about. Because when I was assisting, obviously, I was on huge sets, right. So I learned the big, big setups. And then for my own career, when I started out, I was just doing individual portraits. I scaled it back, did it very simply. And then when I came fully back around to this Vogue cover shoot, it's the one, by the way, with Blake Lively on the COVID from 2024. You know, it's a kind of a joke, but, like, this was more resources now at my disposal for my shoot than I had since I was assisting. It's not quite true, but it was a lot, right? We had a lot of resources. So when I put the lighting together, I just scaled up what I do in simpler setups that I teach that are simple and beautiful. I just scaled it up. So that's how I think about lighting bigger. Like, if you watch the groups video from Lighting for Everyone, Lighting Groups, you kind of go, oh, my God, that is so simple. Because all we're doing is. We're not just making one giant modifier. You'll have to watch the video to understand this. But anyway, for the Vogue shoots, I kept just scaling up what I knew to do with smaller shoots. And then I always joke, imagine my surprise when it worked so awesome.
- [56:22]
A
And it's amazing to think it just. A light bulb went off. It's like, yeah, Felix just literally does what he teaches on the Vogue cover.
- [56:33]
B
Yeah.
- [56:33]
A
How cool is that?
- [56:35]
B
Yeah. And I'm not like, it's not some. Anyone can do it. It's not some magician thing. It's not a big math situation. I'm not there with a calculator. And in fact, I'm not even there with a light meter most of the time, because if it's too bright, I turn it down. If it's too dark, I turn it up.
- [56:59]
A
Oh, God, you're speaking my language. I love simplicity and efficiency.
- [57:04]
B
Exactly. For huge sets, we need to maybe use a light meter for, like, making sure it's consistent throughout, you know? But it's like, this is all stuff if someone is trying to teach you based on. Oh, you need to use a light meter when you're doing seniors or portraits or even weddings. That's not a good educator.
- [57:21]
A
I don't. I don't even. I bought one at the very beginning and thought I needed a few Nicki minutes. Literally. I've never used it. I don't even know where it is.
- [57:29]
B
Yeah. I use mine so rarely. So rarely. And it's really? Only I'll just tell you when. We have to shoot in one location and we have to match the light exactly in a second location. That's the kind of thing where, like. Well, we'll need to know exactly how much light is coming out of each light. That's it. That's when I use a light meter. But it's such a small scenario, you know, if you're shooting and you've never thought, oh, I need to know exactly how much light is hitting the subject. Like a technical number. If you've never had that thought, then you don't need a light meter.
- [58:02]
A
Exactly. Exactly.
- [58:03]
B
Very simple.
- [58:05]
A
Well, I love it. I love how you teach. I always love chatting with you. Thanks for being on again. It's awesome.
- [58:11]
B
Likewise.
- [58:11]
A
I do have a couple questions, though, that I always ask at the end of each episode. And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot? And it doesn't have to be a photography product. Cause I'm gonna ask you about that in a minute.
- [58:23]
B
A light meter. No, I'm kidding. What can't I do without on a shoot? I think without the participation of the subject. That's the hardest. That's the hardest. And, you know, just to answer this properly, I think there's something magic that happens when I build a couple of lights or you build a little bit of a set. You know, like, even if you. If you have a studio and you're just photographing someone next to a window with daylight, there's not a lot of equipment. Right. And I think the benefit of sort of when you do shoot in studio, you have to put. You have to use one light at least. Right. Someone walking in and seeing that, there's a psychological thing that shifts in their mind, which I think it makes them take it seriously. So that's why I kind of say the one thing I can't do without is their participation. And I use. Even if it's just one light, they come in, they see it, they go, oh, this is. This photographer has put work into this. They take it seriously.
- [59:30]
A
Yeah, that makes sense for sure.
- [59:32]
B
Yeah.
- [59:33]
A
All right, Number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [59:37]
B
I work a lot, so I, you know, I've been trying to sort out my sleep. I think photographers know the struggle of sleeping before a shoot. I still have that. I'm currently on day six of Fantastic Sleep, which is like a new record for me. And, you know, we have a dog. I love taking my playing with my dogs. He's hanging out with us, with me right now here as we're recording this.
- [60:05]
A
Minus.
- [60:05]
B
I also love to travel and I kind of. Yeah, it's nice, right? I kind of love seeing and photographing for fun places where we've got trouble. I'm famously. We have a Namibia creative adventure that Pratik and I, Pratik Naik and I host usually in at the end of January in Namibia, which is just north of South Africa. So really travel is where I go with my spare time. And it's my passion, but I always connect it to photography because it's always about the visual, right?
- [60:40]
A
Oh, yeah. I love that. I love that you do those trips. Very cool.
- [60:43]
B
Yeah.
- [60:44]
A
All right, number three is what is a photography specific product that you can't live without? Like that you would recommend for people to have?
- [60:52]
B
Oh, a product. Okay. If I tell them they had to buy one thing. I really, really, really love my Oliphant studio backdrops. Oh, Oliphant is Sarah Oliphant, who does backdrops for all the top photographers in the world. She's based in New York and she has her studio and she's painting backdrops for 40 years. All anyone who paints backdrops knows who Sarah oliphant is in 20. When I first came to New York, I remember I saved. I think it was. I saved for months to buy my first Oliphant backdrop. And I got her to paint it and I hated it. I really hated it. So kind of had gotten to know, speak to Sarah a little bit. I was like, I think. And she'd said to me, if you don't like it, I will repaint it for free. So I went back in and what had happened is I hadn't specced it very well. I hadn't given like the right reference for what the. What it should look like. I just kind of had it in my head and had a hard time putting it down on paper. So Rishi repainted it twice for me and then I loved it. And this backdrop, it's called the Felix Classic, built my entire career. It was just anyone you put in front of it. If you light them softly, it was gorgeous. I still use it to this day. And we actually created a little capsule collection with Oliphant with the three of my favorite backdrops. You can't find it online, just send me an email. But yeah, it's. That's. I think something that was. I think I spent like 800 to $1,000 on my first backdrop. I was so broke. And that's something that. Look at the return on investment has really been fantastic. That was more than a decade ago and I'm still using that thing over and over and it just. As it ages, as it gets scratched, it just gets better.
- [63:01]
A
That's awesome. I love it.
- [63:03]
B
Yeah.
- [63:04]
A
All right, Felix, where can people find lighting for everyone?
- [63:08]
B
Lighting for everyone is@lightingforeveryone.com and yeah, I highly recommend it. Obviously, I thought a lot about it. I thought a lot about how to teach in a way that is simpler, more effective and that gets real results. It's not about I want photographers to succeed. It's like so great when someone tells me, I made a big sale, I built my career or I really enjoy what I'm shooting now. When they send me before and afters, it's like it's one of the best moments that I have in my life.
- [63:45]
A
It's so cool, isn't it? It's such a great feeling being an educator. When people are learning, they're implementing it and they're doing it and they come back to you and say, this helped. Oh, it's the best feeling. I love it.
- [63:55]
B
Yeah. But generally, just if you. It's. My name is Felix Kunz. It's F, E, L, I, X and then my last name is K U N Z E. So that's Kilo Uniform, November, Zulu, Echo. And that's the best way to find all of my things.
- [64:12]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you again. Again, it's always great talking to you and likewise, Nikki. Yeah, hopefully I will see you soon.
- [64:22]
B
Yes. Let's shoot together.
- [64:24]
A
Let's do it. That would be fantastic.
- [64:26]
B
Okay, thanks Nikki.
- [64:27]
A
Thanks Felix. Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review Wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to Soubre Dasheducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge, plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting, PDFs, I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com.