Make The Most Out Of LinkedIn Marketing To Boost Your Business with Jeff Brown

Summary

The Portrait System Podcast: "Make The Most Out Of LinkedIn Marketing To Boost Your Business" with Jeff Brown

Release Date: August 11, 2025

---

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of The Portrait System Podcast, host Nikki Klosser engages in a deep conversation with Jeff Brown, a renowned marketing expert specializing in LinkedIn strategies for photographers. The discussion centers on leveraging LinkedIn to enhance branding, attract ideal clients, and ultimately grow a successful portrait photography business.

---

Jeff Brown’s Background and Journey [02:18 - 04:27]

Jeff Brown begins by sharing his unique journey from a military photographer in the Royal Navy to a successful entrepreneur in the photography industry. After serving as an image analyst with the intelligence services, Jeff transitioned into civilian life by co-founding a wedding photography business with a fellow naval photographer, Kev Darosh. Within 18 months post-military, their business achieved six-figure revenues. Jeff attributes this rapid growth to substantial investments in branding and marketing, funded by resettlement grants provided by the UK military.

Notable Quote:

“I spent that £70,000 of my money on learning about branding and marketing and that's really what gave the business that massive boost.”
— Jeff Brown [04:27]

---

The Crucial Role of Branding and Marketing [04:27 - 09:22]

Jeff emphasizes that for photographers, branding is paramount because clients, who are consumers, first judge a brand based on its visual elements such as colors, fonts, and overall message. He illustrates this with the analogy of a high-end restaurant where the exterior branding influences customers' perceptions before they step inside.

Key Insights:

• First Impressions Matter: Just as a beautiful restaurant facade attracts patrons, a well-crafted brand attracts clients.
• Perceived Value Over Price: A strong brand conveys higher perceived value, allowing photographers to charge premium prices without significant price resistance.
• Authenticity is Key: Sharing personal stories and authentic content on platforms like LinkedIn builds trust and relatability with potential clients.

Notable Quote:

“People buy on perceived value. And the perceived value comes from the brand.”
— Jeff Brown [17:42]

---

Leveraging LinkedIn for Business Growth [09:22 - 37:17]

The bulk of the podcast delves into the strategic use of LinkedIn as a powerful yet underutilized tool for photographers. Jeff outlines why LinkedIn is particularly effective:

• Professional Audience: LinkedIn hosts over 1 billion users, with a significant portion being high-income professionals.
• Low Competition: With only 1-5% of users actively creating content, photographers have a better chance of standing out without getting lost in the noise.
• Content Strategy: Unlike Instagram, LinkedIn favors longer-form, story-driven content that showcases authenticity and personal connection.

Practical Tips:

1. Optimize Your Profile: Use clear, keyword-rich job titles (e.g., "Headshot Photographer") to improve discoverability.
2. Consistent Content Creation: Post 3-4 times a week with engaging stories, tips, and personal anecdotes.
3. Engage Through Comments: Building relationships via meaningful comments can expand your network exponentially.
4. Connect Strategically: Aim to connect daily with individuals who fit your ideal client profile, using personalized messages for key connections.
5. Avoid Overly Technical Jargon: Focus on the benefits and solutions your photography provides rather than technical details.

Notable Quotes:

“Visibility is credibility. Credibility leads to authority, and authority gives you opportunity.”
— Jeff Brown [10:52]

“Always put yourself out there, tell stories, share some of your personal stuff. People who like you and trust you are more likely to become clients.”
— Jeff Brown [22:15]

---

Personal Stories and Overcoming Adversity [37:17 - 45:22]

Jeff opens up about his personal struggles, including a severe business failure that led to significant debt and a near-fatal incident. He shares how resilience, setting small, achievable goals, and consistent effort on platforms like LinkedIn helped him rebuild his life and business. Jeff underscores the importance of a positive mindset and gratitude in overcoming challenges.

Key Takeaways:

• Resilience Through Adversity: Personal setbacks can lead to new directions and greater success.
• Setting and Achieving Goals: Breaking down large goals into manageable tasks facilitates progress.
• Mindset Matters: Consistently engaging in positive activities, such as listening to motivational audiobooks and spending time in nature, can significantly impact mental health and business success.

Notable Quote:

“Entrepreneurial life is a roller coaster. There's always the ups and downs, and going through stuff like that just makes you stronger to deal with the next.”
— Jeff Brown [41:24]

---

Practical LinkedIn Strategies for Photographers [45:22 - 54:07]

Jeff provides actionable strategies tailored for photographers to maximize their LinkedIn presence:

1. Define Your Niche:

   • Decide whether to focus on headshots, family portraits, or another specialty.
   • Create separate LinkedIn company pages if offering multiple services.

2. Content Creation:

   • Focus on storytelling that resonates with your target audience.
   • Use local content to connect with geographically relevant clients.

3. Networking:

   • Actively connect with potential clients and complementary businesses (e.g., recruiters, lawyers for headshot photographers).
   • Utilize LinkedIn’s search feature to find and connect with ideal clients.

4. Engagement:

   • Encourage comments by asking questions at the end of posts.
   • Build relationships through consistent interaction in the comments section.

Notable Quote:

“Consistency is like going to the gym regularly. Short, consistent efforts lead to significant results over time.”
— Jeff Brown [50:57]

---

Final Advice and Recommendations [54:07 - 58:10]

In the concluding segment, Jeff distills his advice for photographers:

• Invest in Branding Over Equipment: Prioritize developing a strong brand identity over purchasing the latest gear.
• Set Clear Goals: Define where you want your business to go and take daily actions towards those goals.
• Utilize LinkedIn as a Dual-Purpose Platform: Use LinkedIn not only to attract clients but also to create joint ventures, seek sponsorships, and build authority in the photography industry.

Recommended Resources:

• Jeff Brown’s LinkedIn and Facebook Profiles: For further insights and networking opportunities.
• The Photographer’s Mentor Website: thephotographersmentor.com

Notable Quote:

“If you have a goal and vision for your business and you start doing something about those goals every day, you’ll see the results.”
— Jeff Brown [48:28]

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Portrait System Podcast offers invaluable insights into the intersection of photography, branding, and strategic marketing on LinkedIn. Jeff Brown’s blend of personal resilience stories and practical marketing strategies provides photographers with the tools to elevate their businesses, attract ideal clients, and build lasting professional relationships. By focusing on authentic storytelling and consistent engagement, photographers can harness the full potential of LinkedIn to achieve sustained business growth.

---

Find More Resources: Visit theportraitsystem.com for educational materials, community access, and additional podcast episodes to further enhance your photography business skills.

Transcript

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales, and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com signup and and sign up. Today. You're listening to the Portrait System podcast.

[Jeff Brown]

Our clients aren't photographers. Our clients are consumers. Whether they're commercial consumers or whether they're members of the public buying something for an emotional solution like, you know, wedding photography or portrait photography. And all of us as consumers, first thing we judge is the brand. And the brand is the colors, the feel, the message, the fonts.

[Nikki Klosser]

Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs, and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey everyone, it's Nikki Klosser here. And my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Jeff Brown. Jeff and I had an incredible conversation about marketing. Jeff is actually an expert when it comes to marketing your business on LinkedIn and he gives us so many helpful tips, not only just how to use the platform, but how to make the most of it so that you can start getting more clients. Jeff also shared some personal details about how things were quite hard for him several years ago, but he faced that adversity and came out stronger because of it. I loved this chat with Jeff and I'm excited to introduce him to you. Okay, let's get started with Jeff Brown. Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the Portrait System. How you doing?

[Jeff Brown]

I'm great, thanks, Nikki, and thanks for having me on.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, absolutely. Where are you at at the moment?

[Jeff Brown]

So I'm in a place called Northumberland in the United Kingdom in England. So Northumberland is England's most remote county. There's more people than sheep here. And I'm about, as the crow flies, I'm about 10 miles from Scotland, so I'm on the border with Scotland.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, interesting. Wow, it must be so beautiful there.

[Jeff Brown]

It is. It's a very beautiful part of the United Kingdom. There's more castles here than any other county in England as well, because we're at war with the Scottish for about 300 years, but we're friends with them now. We like.

[Nikki Klosser]

Good, I'm glad. Kindness makes the world go round, right?

[Jeff Brown]

It certainly does.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, so I'm just picturing all these castles, but, you know, in this like, amazing green, lush landscape. But you don't really shoot outside, do you? Like, most of your work has been commercial, correct?

[Jeff Brown]

Well, I've had a mixed. So my background, I first started out as a military photographer, so I was a Royal Navy photographer. And then for two years of my military career, I worked with the intelligence services as what's called an image analysis. So I used to analyze satellite imagery, sort of like spy satellite imagery. And while I was doing that, I started getting people coming into my office asking if I'd do pictures of their dogs and their dog's birthday party and weddings. So the first business I had, or the first business I started while I was still in the military was a wedding photography business. And I started that with Kev Darosh, who was another naval photographer who was from the same city as me in Sunderland in England. And we started that up and within about 18 months I'd left the Navy and we had a. A six figure business. And. And from there we, we branched out into commercial photography. We also had a boudoir makeover studio, we had portrait photography, and we also did. We had a separate brand which was nursery and kindergarten school photography. And one of the reasons that you've.

[Nikki Klosser]

Done quite a bit.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, well, one of the reasons it took off so well is because when you're in the military in the United Kingdom, when you come to leave military, they give you what's called a resettlement grant. So they give you money to spend on training to. To turn you back into a civilian again. And as a military photographer, the training is quite intense. So I thought I was a reasonable photographer, but I wasn't a very good business person. So I spen that 70,000 pound of my money on learning about branding and marketing and that's really what give the business that massive boost and allowed it to take off as quick as it did. And then when Kev left the military, because I came out first and then he left 12 months later, we had another £7,000 to spend on more marketing, training and more branding. And that has always become the focus of my business. And now work with photographers in 25 countries around the world, helping them with their business and their marketing and their branding.

[Nikki Klosser]

That's fantastic. Very cool. I'm curious, did you sign up for the military and then fall into photography or did you sign up like, I didn't realize that military, you know, it makes sense, you need photographs of what's happening, you know. Yeah, but how does that work?

[Jeff Brown]

So in the United Kingdom, in the British military, you can join the Royal Air Force as a photographer, but the army and the Navy, you can't join as a photographer, so you have to join as a different specialization. So I joined as an aircraft engineer. And then after three years service, you can apply under your own merit to be a photographer and you have to put your own portfolio together and really, really try and impress the photographic branch. And then if you get selected, it's then quite an intense course. It's 28 exams in 26 weeks, so it takes you to two bit like so like degree level and covering all sorts of photography from like event photography to VIP to macro photography, architectural stuff. It's all about promoting the armed forces and showing them in good light.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, very cool. Well, it's just so people know we're going to be talking a lot about LinkedIn today, which I know, I mean, obviously when it comes to marketing and branding and that sort of thing, it's incredibly important. And I'm almost kind of embarrassed to say that I'm not even on LinkedIn. So this is selfishly, I was really excited to have you on because I mean, personal branding has been my bread and butter for 12 years and I've done it without using LinkedIn. So in my head I'm like, man, maybe If I added LinkedIn to my, you know, toolkit of marketing tricks, this could be really, really great. So I'm excited to learn from you and hear all about it.

[Jeff Brown]

Well, LinkedIn, it's such a phenomenal platform and it's very different than the likes of Instagram. It is a bit more like Facebook because LinkedIn likes longer form content, so it likes storytelling, but just to give you a few stats and to give the lessons, a few stats. So LinkedIn topped the 1 billion user mark last year.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow.

[Jeff Brown]

The average wage earner on LinkedIn brings home $80,000 a year. So these are people who have higher disposable incomes, are in very professional sort of management roles. LinkedIn, 40% of millionaires use the platform, so those would be good clients, wouldn't it? And the other thing is, with LinkedIn, you have all content on the platform, but the content on the platform is created between 1 to 5% of users. So LinkedIn has a very low competitive sort of competition to get yourself in the newsfeed. If you start creating content on a regular basis, you can be seen quite easily. Whereas, you know, likes of Facebook and Instagram, there's a lot of noise out there. And one of the reasons people don't create content in LinkedIn is because a lot of people think that, oh God, I have to speak a certain way for LinkedIn. It's a professional network. I think people are a bit intimidated by it. And my view is treat it like you do. Fisk. I share content, you know, I make myself authentic. I tell lots of stories, I try to inspire people. I try to be very, very positive, share tips and advice, but also share a lot of personal stuff as well, so people can to see the man behind the brand. So it's not just me, Jeff Brown, the photography mentor. It's like, you know what I like doing as well. So I'll put pictures of me out on my motorbike for a day, or me and my daughter, or a nice cake that I've had. You know, I always tell a bit of a story and that sort of content does really well because people like stories and they don't like to be salted.

[Nikki Klosser]

It's really interesting and it makes a lot of sense because people hire people who they know like and trust totally. And you have to be yourself, especially if you want to attract clients who you're gonna gel with and who you know, like you and you like them, you have to be yourself. And I think behind that sort of, you know, stuffy business, like, you know, corporate world, where it's more traditionally a little bit like buttoned up. Behind that are real people who are probably, you know, cussing like sailors and drinking beer and watching football on the weekend, you know, like, it's not like I don't think people necessarily live their life in this buttoned up way.

[Jeff Brown]

So you know what, Nikki? I've had so much opportunity come from LinkedIn by just being myself, you know, and people Commenting on stuff. And then one of the unusual things about LinkedIn that is different than any other platform, I have quite a big following. I've got like over 65,000 followers on LinkedIn, and I've written a book on LinkedIn. So I am very, very aware of the platform and know how to use it. But LinkedIn gives me more opportunity than anything else. I get more unusual inbox messages from LinkedIn because I'm visible. And I have a saying that, you know, visibility is credibility. Credibility leads to authority, and authority gives you opportunity. So the more visible you come, the more you put yourself out there, the more credible you are, as long as you're not trying to sell to people all the time.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, right.

[Jeff Brown]

And then the more credible you become, the more authority you have, because people see you all the time and they, oh, yeah, that's the person. That's the go to headshot photographer. That's the go to personal branding photographer. And then when you're in the, you know, when you are more visible and you have that more authority, that's when the magic starts happening and you get the messages. Like, we'd like you to write for this magazine, would like to come on this podcast, like, to be an ambassador for our brand. Yeah, we'd like you to come and speak over, over in South Africa or Canada, you know, and, and so many things have come through to me, and I've just seen, wow, this is unbelievable. But people are out there watching you because the platform has very low competition. So if you're regular, if you connect with lots of people, if you put valuable, inspirational, helpful, authentic content out there, the opportunities will start to come your way. And you never know who's. Who's reading your content. You never know. It's. Nobody is out of your reach. You know, you can connect with global brands, you can connect with the CEOs of global brands. You can get in front of people without having to go through the gatekeepers that you normally would go if you were trying to email somebody.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right. Well, I mean, obviously I know that your, your, like, go to, you know, your specialty. That's the word I was looking for. Your specialty is marketing, obviously. Branding and marketing, that's what you teach, that's what you love, that's what you know. And I just recently interviewed Felix Kunz, and we were, we were, we kind of got into depth about, do you need to be the best photographer in the world or do you need to have strong marketing? Do you need to have both? Like, what's your kind of theory? On that around, can you be just an average photographer but have really strong marketing and have a super successful business?

[Jeff Brown]

Yes, 100%. And I would go as far as to say that 80 to 90% of the photographers who come on board my marketing program are actually better photographers than me. I just had a guy, Brad, sign up to my program yesterday and his landscape photography is phenomenal. That's absolutely amazing. Now I've had people come to me in the past and say, Jeff, look, I want you to be totally honest. You know, can you have a look at my website, can you have a look at my social media? I'm not getting any clients. Is my photography good enough? And I've had a look. And also your photography is fantastic, but your marketing and your brand's crap. And that is the thing. Because what we've got to remember is our clients aren't photographers. Our clients are consumers. Whether they're commercial consumers or whether they're members of the public buying something for an emotional solution like, you know, wedding photography or portrait photography. And all of us as consumers, the first thing we judge is the brand. And the brand is the colors, the feel, the message, the fonts. One way to put this into perspective is think about a really high end fancy restaurant or really nice restaurant. And if you're walking along in a street that you've never been before with your partner and you're walking down this street, you're on holiday and you see a restaurant and you see this beautiful font and the twinkly lights and it looks nice from outside, you're, oh, that must look good. You already believe in that, it's really nice. And your website has to have that. And what you do is you don't, don't look at other photographers, look at other businesses that serve your niche. So if you're a wedding photographer, don't spend all your time looking and trying to copy local photographers. Look at the high end wedding venues, look at the fancy bridal shops, look at the really high end bridal magazines. Because these brands have spent a hell of a lot of money choosing fonts, colors, a message in a field that appeals to their ideal clients, who also happens to be your ideal clients. So learn from people who've got big marketing and branding budgets and have done all the research. Don't copy a local photographer who's gone and spent $50 on fiber and says, that's my marketing gone. That's, you know, that's my branding done. And when I left the Navy, to be totally honest, I felt like a bit Of a fraud, really. I felt like as if they were cheap because we weren't very experienced wedding photographers at all. We'd done three weddings, two of which were for friends and we had one paid job. But we created a brand and the brand looked really high, high end. We. We got all the fonts right, we got the message right. We had a message that connected and it was all about clients. We weren't selling the photography, we were selling the experience and the feel. And. And then it's your big day and, you know, you call the shots and you're going to have beautiful images but you're going to be able to enjoy the day as well with your friends and family and your loved ones. So we had this beautiful brand, but if anybody had examined it and picked it, they probably would have noticed that there was only three brides on that portfolio website. Because you didn't. Yeah, because my past experience was photographing tanks and ships and guns and, you know, helicopters and stuff. So I was a qualified photographer, but I wasn't an experienced wedding photographer. But my clients weren't looking for that, they were looking for the message and.

[Nikki Klosser]

They were looking for you. They like you.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, yeah. You know, and we said. But actually we had really one. One thing that went down really well, we said, because between me and Kevin, we photographed quite a lot of members of the Royal family and heads of state in our role as military photographers. And we said that it's the same, with the same care and attention that we photograph the Queen and Prince Philip and the Prime Minister, that we'll photograph your wedding day. And brides, mothers love that. Oh, we've got the two lads.

[Nikki Klosser]

I can imagine. Yeah.

[Jeff Brown]

So it's about making them feel special. It wasn't about us, it was about them being special. That's what the brand was. But we made the brand look high end and we have the price in there to reflect that. And funny enough, I've got a headshot photographer who I work with and she. She's put up prices of six times since I've been working with her. Photography is exactly the same, but her brand's changed. And it's the brand and the brand message that it's allowed to charge a lot more to. The fact that she's the most expensive headshot photographer in the county. But now that she's the most expensive, she actually gets less price conflict than she did when she was cheaper. Because the brand's right, the brand fits with the price, the message is right and she's appealing to the right Sort of people. Because if people just bought on price, there would be no budget brands, there would be no premium brands, you know, so Marius would go, BMW would go, Mercedes would go, and everybody would just go for the cheapest thing. But people don't buy on price. People buy on perceived value. And the perceived value comes from the brand.

[Nikki Klosser]

Oh, that's exactly right. I don't know if this is the right term for it. Kind of like smoke and mirrors. I mean, you have to know what you're doing. You have to know how to provide the service to your client once they book you. I mean, obviously that needs to happen. But there is this, like you said, some of it, so much of it is perception. And I know I've told this story before on this podcast, but I've had clients who said when I swapped out the photos that you took of me onto my website, so now their website looked polished, professional. They've got these new gorgeous photos. They now bring in more clients and make more money. And that's just, you know, and it was funny, one of my clients had said like, all of a sudden everyone, you know, I was booking more clients and people are like, wow, you're doing so great. Your business has blown up. And she's like, all I did was change the photos. Like, and now she had content that looked really great to post on social media. And it was that perception. And yes, she does provide a really great service, you know, once people book her. But people weren't noticing her because her brand wasn't great. You know, the photos look crappy. It was just, they're not going to notice you otherwise. So.

[Jeff Brown]

And I think the other thing as well is with photographers is, you know, with photographers, we try to sell the images and we should never sell the images, we should sell what the images do. And photography has two sales, there's two lines, two directions for sale. And photography, there is solution based sale, which is like headshot, commercial photography, personal branding, food photography. So you're offering a solution to a customer so that customer buying those images, not for the images themselves, for a solution to a problem. And that problem is usually lack of money or lack of visibility. So if a restaurant is buying images of food, it's not because they want pretty pictures, they want more bums on seats, they want more cash in the film, they want more followers on Facebook. So you've got solution based photography and then you've got emotional based photography, which is your portraits, weddings, pet photography, boudoir. And then you don't sell the images, you sell the solution that the images bring. So you, you know, with family portraiture, you would sell every time you sit down in the living room, even if it's a crap day and it's been raining all day and your boss has been horrible to you, you come back home with a coffee and you sit down, you look at this beautiful picture if you and your family, and it brings a smile to your face. It creates that wow factor when people come in the house. So you become more of an interior designer than you do a photographer. You sell the end solution, but by selling the end solution at the beginning as well, it makes it easier to sell the products at the end.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Backing up a little bit. I think we can all think of a photographer in our area who you look at their work and we're just kind of like, I don't, I don't get it. Like, it's not that great. The skin tones are off, the color is weird, you know, but they're busy and they're always posting so many clients. And again, it goes back to, you don't have to be the best photography photographer in the world. But these people are really good at, at putting themselves out there at marketing. That's what's getting them in the door. For some reason they have, you know, whatever they're putting out there, you know, due to their marketing is making people want them. And I, and that's, it's just, it's crucial to figure out who, you know, one, who are you trying to attract?

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah.

[Nikki Klosser]

And two, how are you going to resonate with them?

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah. And I think that that is one of the key things, you know, so when you post it on likes of LinkedIn, you're posting on Facebook, it's not all about you. It's not like, look at me, I just did this shoot, look at me. You talk about the client's pain, problems, you know, their pain.

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely.

[Jeff Brown]

You have empathy with what their problems. I hate having my photograph taken. I've got a crap headshot, you know, but I want to look professional, I want to look approachable and I want to create the perfect first impression. So you sell, you don't sell the photograph, you sell confidence, you sell building your network. You sell being the go to person in each. Creating the perfect first impression, looking warm and, and welcoming and, and you know, because ultimately headshot is the first impression. You know, you don't want to create a bad first impression, you want to create a good one. So you sell that. And I think the other thing is, like I said, it's having that authenticity and be able to put stuff out there that makes people smile, makes people go, oh God, that's great. You know, like it doesn't have to be photography related. And funny enough, I had a guy sign up a program a couple of months ago, a wedding photographer in the UK and he, he jumped on board a 30 minute consultation call with me and he said, look, Jeff, he says, I've spoke to, you know, a few of the photography mentors. He says, I know you know your stuff and I like the idea of your program. He says, but I think I've made the decision, I'm going to go with you. He says, do you want to know why I'm going with you? And I was like, yeah, yeah, that'd be really interesting. And he says, because I think you're a good dad. He says, because I see you posting pictures on Facebook and on LinkedIn and you talk about weekends out with your daughter. Because I'm a, you know, I'm a divorced father. And he says that speaks a lot of volumes to me about the person you are. And I was like, wow, you know, it just goes to show that, that authenticity people buy from people they like. And he's a, he was in a similar situation to me. He was a divorced dad and he was very dedicated towards his daughter. And it is, it's about getting that message out there. And B, you can't connect with a robot, you can't connect with somebody who's trying to sell to you all the time. You'll never that authenticity. But if you be, you know, make fun of yourself, you be, you tell some stories, you put some authenticity out there, people will actually like you and trust you. And if they like you and trust you, the chances are they will buy a few when they're looking for somebody, you will become their first ported call. When they're thinking about headshot or they're wanting to get some family portraits. Effy?

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely. Going back to what you were saying about, I'm trying to remember how you said it, but when it comes to putting things out there about what you're going to do for them, like I have a marketing course, get more clients and something. One of the segments I talk about is the difference of the words that you're using when you're marketing. So like I see a lot of like family photographers, for example, talking about like, you know, I have archival paper, heirloom portraits and blah, blah, blah. No one gives a shit about that. Instead, if you say, I'm going to make this the easiest family photo shoot you've ever, ever done, you know, or you know, are your kids wild? Don't worry, I got them. It's gonna be, you know, a fun, amazing photo shoot that even your husband will love. Like things like that. As opposed to talking about what you think photographers might want to hear. You know, it's all about them and what you're gonna do for them.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, I'm always telling off my clients, I don't wanna hear you say things like high res retouched images.

[Nikki Klosser]

No, they're not high res retouching. No one cares.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, they're imagine grabbing, you know, jaw dropping images that stand out and get you noticed online. You know, don't sell your or you'll see them saying oh, and you get your wedding album. So you don't get a wedding album. You get Italian handmade leather bound wedding album. This is always prefix it with stuff that makes exciting. Don't say high res images, you know, say attention grabbing, you know, always put stuff in there that's relevant to the client. And don't talk about your camera kits. Don't tell them how you first got into photography when you were 16 year old and you used to love working in the dark room. And because they don't care, they're not interested. Yeah, and other photographers, you see them creating content and writing websites and it's like they're trying to sell to other photographers. Other photographers aren't our clients. Unless you're like me and you do mentoring. But even then, you know, I don't speak in photography term terminology.

[Nikki Klosser]

Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success and it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. I know I can't stress this enough, especially like everything from when someone asks you what do you do? For example, okay, this is at networking meetings when I see people stand up and they give their 32nd pitch and they're like, you know, hi, I'm Nikki. I specialize in personal branding. My studio is here in Chelsea, Michigan and everyone's already bored. You know, if you come out and say my clients make more money because of their new photos, I, you know, my stylist will do your hair and makeup exactly how you want it. You do not have to be good in front of a camera. I will tell you exactly what to do, down to posing, your hands, your expression, and you will finally have photos you love and people are like, whoa, you know, sign me up. It's so much of that is just in the words that you're using and.

[Jeff Brown]

Saying, yeah, because it's funny enough, right? You know, effectively my own business, you know, I sell marketing and LinkedIn and branding services to photographers, but I don't use that in my own marketing. If you go on my LinkedIn profile or if you look on my Facebook, on my website, it basically says I help photographers build a premium outstanding brand and make a lot more money during the job they love. Because what photographers want to do is be top of their game and make a lot of money. But they're not, they don't want to know about the marketing details because usually photographers aren't really good on marketing and they're not really, you know, that all sounds boring, but.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right.

[Jeff Brown]

Making more money and having a premium brand sounds exciting. So if you sell into a client, sell stuff that sounds exciting, sell, we'll help you stand out online and get more customers. We'll help you create a headshot that puts you top of your game, becomes the go to person in your industry.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yep, yep. Well, let's talk about LinkedIn. I mean, for someone like me who's not even on the platform, where do I begin?

[Jeff Brown]

Well, one of the first things is to think about what you're going to utilize LinkedIn for. So I have clients who, because the best way to use LinkedIn is to be a niche, you know, so to be a specialist, don't be a generalist or a freelancer. So you can you say, right, you know, I might be doing family portraits on Facebook and Instagram, but LinkedIn I'm going to use for headshots and personal branding. Now also, you got to remember that there are plenty of people on LinkedIn who have daughters, who are getting married, who having babies, who have pets. So LinkedIn isn't just a business to business platform. I work with lots of wedding photographers, pet photographers, who get tons of work from LinkedIn. But you didn't need to decide what you're going to utilize your LinkedIn platform for and then build your profile based around what you do for a client. Now, I've got a client who's a headshot photographer, but he takes a two pronged approach. So his profile is all about helping you create a perfect first impression, helping you stand out online and look warm, welcoming and attract more clients, become top of the game. So he sells the headshot aspect, but. And he has his LinkedIn profile, but he also has a company page on LinkedIn for his family portraits. So he has a company page for his headshots, a company page for his family portraits, and his profile is all about headshots. So what he does is he's connecting with all these business owners. He's doing headshots for people who, you know, make a lot of Money. These are CEOs and company directors and these sort of people. And then when they come into the studio for a headshot, at the end of the headshot session, he gives them a voucher for £100 or $150 to come back with their family for a family portrait. So he's using LinkedIn to do great headshots, but headshots for people who have, you know, high disposable incomes, beautiful homes with lots of wall space to create beautiful wall art. So he's using LinkedIn in, in two different ways. One, to get these headshot clients, but then when these headshot clients do come in, he gives them voucher to come back with the family. And if he over delivers and Griff gives great service and makes them feel at ease, then they'll definitely want to come back with a family and have a family shift.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's dive in a little bit more because, you know, like you said, you have to connect or you have to, you know, decide what you're gonna do, what your, your niche is gonna be. So let's say mine's personal branding photography, which it is. Yeah, yeah, I just start posting like it's Facebook about, you know, oh, you know, something that's relatable, like, you know. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead, you're the, you're the expert. I'm not gonna try and pretend like I am, but I just start posting.

[Jeff Brown]

Basically start creating content. Now with LinkedIn, it's, there's a few, there's a few sort of rules of thumb with LinkedIn. So LinkedIn, the algorithm prefers longer form content, so it's not like posting to Instagram with just a Few words and a load of hashtags. In fact, I would go as far as to say on LinkedIn now just bin the hashtags altogether. No hashtags. Because LinkedIn doesn't recognize hashtags anymore. They did a few years ago and you used to have to post like up to three or four hashtags maximum. Now no hashtags on LinkedIn. Another thing is don't post any outbound links. So very similar to likes of Facebook. Don't put a link to your website or anything like that.

[Nikki Klosser]

How do you, real quickly, you know, you said don't do hashtags. How do people find, like if I'm interested in finding a headshot photographer, how would people find you if it's not through hashtags?

[Jeff Brown]

So they would do a search. So they go up to the, to the LinkedIn search bar and they would type in headshots, the photographer in New York or headshot photographer and narrowed down to London. Now because of your job title, that will help you be found. So if your job title is headshot photographer and this is where a lot of photographers make a mistake when they set up their job title, they will put business owner or self employed or CEO or director. That isn't the keyword. So your job title needs to be a keyword. So if you're a pet photographer, put pet photographer. Don't put job director as your job title because LinkedIn is looking for your job title in relation to what people are connecting with. But with the platform is what you want to do. If say for instance you, you're going to be like a branded photographer or a headshot photographer is you create your profile, you build your profile out, then you start producing relevant content and it's storytelling content, something who, what, where, when, why tell a bit of a story, you know about 800 to 1200 characters, put an image up there or a series of images. But one important thing with LinkedIn is always ask a question at the end to try and get people to engage. Because LinkedIn is a comment based platform. So it's not all about getting thumbs up and likes, it's about getting comments. And also if you want to build relationships with people, one of the best ways to build relationships is through comments. Because if you put a post out there and it's got 150 likes or 200 likes, you don't see those individual likes, you just see a number. But then if people comment and you reply to their comments, you start to get to know each other through the comments. So the Relationships are built in the newsfeed when you start connecting with people. So say for instance, you connect with somebody who runs a recruitment firm or you might be lawyer, the chances are that they have a lot of other connections in relevant industry to them. So when you connect with somebody, so if you connect with me at the moment, I would be your say I'm your second or third connection. You come along and you connect with me. I then become a first degree connection. So you have first, second and third degree connections. Okay. If you're not connected with somebody, you're in a second or third connection. So if you.

[Nikki Klosser]

Because some people only do like interact with people who have a first, second or third degree connection, right?

[Jeff Brown]

Yes. So basically if you have 60 odd thousand followers, so if you're like a second or third degree connection to me, then you send me a friend request, so connection request, and I connect with you. Then that opens you up to all my 60,000 connections and they will all be second degree connections to you because they connected to you through me, if you know what I mean. So it will be a second degree. So then you can start, oh, I'll drop this person a connection, I'll drop that person a connection, you know, and then it will say, oh, similar connection is Jeff Brown. So you can start building up with the right sort of people. It opens, you know, doors. So, you know, I have like maybe pet photographers who start connecting with vets and then dog groomers and dog walkers because their ideal clients have the same ideal clients as the vets, the dog groomers and the dog walkers. They're building up a network of. That's what it's all about. So with LinkedIn, not only should you be posting maybe two or three or four times a week, you also need to be connecting with people on a daily basis, like your ideal client type. Because there's no point in posting and posting content all the time if nobody's going to see it because you only have a small network.

[Nikki Klosser]

So connecting how? Just reaching out, commenting on the.

[Jeff Brown]

You can comment on their stuff, but you can also just send a connection request. So you can just click Connect or you can actually personalize it with a connection message. Now what I say is because LinkedIn has limited the number of people you can connect with and the number of messages you can send on a weekly basis. What I do is connect with people to build your numbers up. So you might send out 10 or 15 connections per day just by clicking the connect, no message, just click the connect. But if there's somebody who's really, really important. So I want to really connect with you, Nikki. I wouldn't just send you a connection request. I would just say, hey, Nikki, you know, my name's Jeff, blah, blah, blah, and then put a little message with it. The message is limited to 300 characters. Just a brief introduction, but never make it salesy. Just say, I'd love to connect with you and support each other's content here on LinkedIn. So it's just like an introduction. So anybody who's really, really important that you want to get in front of, include a connection message. But then just for building up people within that particular niche or within that industry, you can just send out connections without that connection request.

[Nikki Klosser]

So it's not weird on LinkedIn to be saying like, hey, let's connect. Because, like, on Instagram, if I just get a random message or face, I'm like, who are these people? You know, it's so. It sounds like it's just a different mindset.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah. Because ultimately it's a networking platform. You know, people. If people rejected everybody's connection, you'd be like, well, what the hell are you on here for? Because we're all trying to network and build our business. Right. And again, it comes down that thing that people do business with and buy from people who they know like, and trust. So you might connect with somebody whose dog's getting married or they've just got a dog and they want some dog portraits done, you know, so they might actually connect with you for headshots, but then they might actually ask you, do you do weddings or anything? It's all about building that relationship. And there will be some people who refuse your connection. And you also do get people who go straight in. You know, they'll send you a connection request, but the connection request will be, let's jump on a call. I do marketing or I do PR services for photographers or whatever, you know, and that's just completely the wrong way to connect on LinkedIn. The last thing you want to be doing is trying to sell to somebody before they even connected with you.

[Nikki Klosser]

For sure. Very interesting. Wow. Okay.

[Jeff Brown]

I mean, to be honest, the content that I create, if you look at my own content on LinkedIn, my profile, my profile is fully optimized. So I'm in the top 1% of my industry and top 1% of the the platform. And usually when I work with photographers, I can get them to the top 1% of the industry and top 1% of the platform within about three to six months. It doesn't take long you just got to have your profile fully optimized and be posting regular content maybe three or four times per week. But once you've got that profile optimized and it says who you are, but more importantly what you do for the client, then you don't have to constantly trying to sell to people. Now if you look at my own content, I probably only do about, I don't know, five or six sales posts per year where I'm actually saying, oh, come and join my mentoring program. What I do is I've got valuable content out there, fun content, inspirational content, top tips and advice. People know what I do because they just have to click on my profile. It says.

[Nikki Klosser]

Right, so, so you can just scan people's profiles just like on Facebook. I mean, it's just, it sounds like it's just like you said, Facebook, but more for professionals.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, yeah. And you know the funny thing as.

[Nikki Klosser]

Well, I get with that.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, the funny thing about LinkedIn and people are like petrified about creating content for LinkedIn. Oh my God, I've got to be professional. You know, it's full of people with shirts and ties and you know, it's very, very professional, especially for photographers because we're creative people and we don't sit in suits and ties and have boardrooms and stuff, you know, but so they're very like self aware when it comes to creating content on LinkedIn. Now the thing with LinkedIn is it's a comment based platform. So you see other people's comments. So say for instance, me new connected and then you comment on somebody else's post. I might see in my newsfeed, Nikki commented on John Smith's post about such and such. And I will see your comment because that's the way the algorithm working, it works off comments. So because of this, people are very aware about the comments they make. So if, if you were to slit somebody else, other people would see that comment and it wouldn't make you look very good at all, you know, so you, you're less likely to get trolled or taken down on LinkedIn than you are on any other. If you, if you post into Facebook and if you post into Instagram. Well, LinkedIn will be a breeze compared to those two.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Jeff Brown]

You know, because people are very respectful. It's the whole vibe on LinkedIn is all about supporting people, helping each other, you know, motivating people. It's a very, very helpful platform. And to the point that I've, you know, a lot of my messaging and content has changed dramatically over the Years and I've opened up about lots of stuff and I. Ten years ago I had a business failure where I lost 120,000 pound and I was 60,000 pound in debt to a club venture that I bought. And I tried to take my own life 10 years ago before I ran away to the country.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow.

[Jeff Brown]

And I've talked about that numerous times on LinkedIn. I've been and done mental health sort of mindset workshops for photographers at school because I'm president of the British Institute Professional Photography. So I spoke to their members, I've spoke to the Society of Photographers members, was over in Canada doing. To talk about mindset and mental health and to put that content out, made myself very vulnerable. On LinkedIn has been nothing but supportive, you know, so it is a very, very, very, very supportive, inspirational platform where you just, you know, and I've made some great friends from the platform. It's. Yeah, once you get into it, you get your head around it, then you'll be like, oh, wow, this is, this is great.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah, this is really. Well, first of all, I'm so glad to hear that you are where you are now in life. I'm sure that was incredibly difficult. That position, I look back at that.

[Jeff Brown]

Now is one of the, the best failures I've ever had because it changed direction for me. Completely run away to the countryside. I changed direction, built this like, online mentoring business and I've got a much better quality life than I had if I'd, if I'd continued with the pub business.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah.

[Jeff Brown]

And, and I think, yeah, like, things happen for a reason, don't they? You know, and, and, and I've never been as happy and more chilled out in my life as, as I have because of a result of that. So things happen for a reason, you know, so there's always a positive in, in everything.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, yeah. And that's what I was going to say is that, you know, it's. I know when you're in it, it doesn't feel like. It doesn't feel like that, but if someone's out there listening and they're in a dark, rough place, you know, so many people who I've interviewed on this podcast have said, you know, they're going through, like, significant grief or they lost their job, you know, they are. We're just broken in so many ways. Or it felt like they were broken and it ended up being. They wouldn't be where they are now if they hadn't gone through that adversity.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Nikki Klosser]

And at the time, it just Feels so heavy and so hard and how am I going to get out of this? But people do get out of it, you know, people in the worst situations get out of it.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it took me a bit. It took me about six months to get myself back to where I was, you know, I mean, the next morning was the big shock was waking up and remembering what I'd done. And you know, don't I admit that, you know, I was drunk at the time as well. I was trying to drive my car bridge and I got drunk beforehand. But it was just this, this overwhelming amount of loss of money and in the debt. And then the first thing I thought about when I woke up was Jeff, what an idiot. You know, your daughter's six year old. How would she have responded when her mother told her that dad had just taken his own life? You know, so that was a wake up call for me. I had to get out of the pub, got out the pillow, found a way to, to Northumberland. I started the mentoring business off. I was still shooting as a photographer as well because the pub was actually a wedding venue. I bought a wedding venue. But it took me about six months to get my head back into being positive again. But you know, what really changed my mindset was audiobooks and being out in nature, getting up every morning, going for a walk with my dog, walking for an hour, an hour and a half, listening to positivity audiobooks. And when you listen to some of the, the most successful and amazing people in the world who built businesses or who are like rock stars or movie stars or whatever, they've all, they've all been through exactly the same, you know, nobody becomes or is born the best of what they do. And entrepreneurial life is a roller coaster. There's always the ups and downs and when you go through stuff like that, it just makes you stronger to deal with the next. And we all have a lot to be grateful for anyway. And I think quite often we forget about what we've got to be grateful for right at the moment.

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely, you're right. It is a roller coaster. It's a big ass roller coaster and we're on the ride and sometimes, gosh, things are just great and sometimes things are really, really hard. Really hard. And that's the reality of it. But it's like if you can set yourself up with the foundation and that keeps coming back to marketing. It's like if you know what to do with marketing. I feel like that is one of, if not the most important parts of business to keep you on the up and up instead of hitting those pitfalls. Because when we have clients consistently coming in and the money is coming in and all of that, that everything's easier, you know.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah. You know, funny enough, I go on about. And I did this when I did my talk in Toronto in April, and I talked about my journey and, you know, my attempted suicide and rebuilding stuff up. And it says after that, six months of listening to audiobooks and stuff, I sat down and I wrote down some goals and I wrote these goals down. And the goals I wrote to me seemed like massive goals because I had nothing. You know, I was starting again from scratch and I was starting again with a new direction to do a mentoring business. So my idea was, you know, I want to build a hundred thousand followers on social media. I want to be. Work closely with all the photography associations in the uk. I want to be a brand ambassador for Canon cameras. I'd love to write my own book, but I'm actually dyslexic. But because I wrote all, I wrote down these 10 big goals. I did something about these goals every single day. Just little things, you know, connecting with the right people. But. And if you have a goal and vision three business and then you start doing something about those goals every day, you know, like, I didn't write my first book overnight. I wrote my first book at about 250 words a day. But, you know, then it was the first chapter, then, you know, you finish your first chapter, then you go on to your second one. I got to be an ambassador for Worm System Olympus. So I didn't become a Canon ambassador, which was one of my goals, but I became an ambassador for OMC from Olympus. And that is because I was putting content out there, connecting with the right sort of people. So if you have a vision and I work with so many photographers who come with it, to me, gorgeous. I'd love to be able to do this, I'd love to be able to do that. My goals. But I don't see how it's going to happen. Well, in the past, have you done anything towards these goals and then they go, well, no. Well, that's why, you know, sometimes, you know, it's a compounding effect and you start making yourself available for opportunity, putting yourself in the right places. One of my things was 10 years ago that I'd love to be able to speak around the world and do workshops and stuff and. And, you know, last year I was in New York with Peter Hurley doing a workshop. This year I've been in South Africa and, and Canada so far. And I've got another trip.

[Nikki Klosser]

Amazing.

[Jeff Brown]

To Canada. But that is because I know what my goal is. I know who I should be connecting with and I know to look at. I make myself aware for the opportunity because nothing is out of reach. We just have to be doing something towards where we want to be. That is the most important thing.

[Nikki Klosser]

Wow. Yeah, it's all really powerful stuff and it's. Yeah. I love what you said about. You wrote 250 words a day. Because I think when we're, especially if you're in a real tough spot, everything can seem insurmountable. It truly can. But if you do it in small bites, like today I'm going to sign up for LinkedIn, I'm going to start my profile. I might not finish it today, but like, okay, I can do that, you know, and it's just doing it in small chunks and then eventually you get somewhere. But if you don't do anything ever, you don't get anywhere.

[Jeff Brown]

Totally. And, you know, even just like that connecting thing, you know, when I speak to clients, I'll be like, right, this is your homework for, for the next few weeks. And also, you know what we want to do. I'm just looking at your LinkedIn profile. You've got 300 connections, right? By 31st October, we're going to have, we're going to set a goal and I want you to have a thousand connections. So I put that accountability back onto them and a bit of a kick up the backside sort of thing, but it's just those little things. So I've had clients who've had 78 or 100 connections on LinkedIn and three years later they've got 20,000 connections. But they didn't get those people overnight. I've got 68,000 connections. I did down to 10 to 15 connections per day. And it's, it's a compounding effect. So what happens is you start connecting with a lot of people, then as your network grows, people start wanting to connect with you. So you get to a magic point where people go, oh, yeah, I want to connect with Nikki, you know, and I keep seeing Nikki everywhere. Oh, yeah. So then you're not doing as much connecting as you were before. People are actually coming to you saying, can I connect with you? Can I connect with you? And it's just that consistency. And it's like you don't go to the gym and do a two hour session and come out with a six pack, but if you go to the gym four times a week and do 20 minutes a session or you know, half an hour, you will see the results. It's that consistency. Just keep it up there, keep doing it.

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely. I love this. This is great. I'm excited, I'm excited. I'm going to start on LinkedIn. I'm going to see what happens and I'll report back.

[Jeff Brown]

Brilliant. Brilliant. And it is, like I say, it's don't just think about somewhere to get customers, think it is somewhere to create joint ventures to, you know, look for other businesses that also focus on your ideal client type. You know, you can start writing for magazines or appearing on other podcasts that support the business industry, you know, so always think of LinkedIn as a, not just for clients but also for opportunity. And all the things, you know, like ambassadorships and sponsorships and working with professional photography associations and becoming president of the British Institute professional photographers, that's all come through LinkedIn just by looking for opportunity. The opportunities are there, you just have to be aware of them and connect with the right people. And then if people like what you're putting out there and like you, your profile and your content, then people start approaching you with this opportunity. Would you do this first? Would you do that? What do you wait for this? Would you?

[Nikki Klosser]

Absolutely. I love this. Sweet. Well, thank you. I mean, I'm excited to dive in, I'm excited to see where this goes and I'm glad we finally did a full episode about LinkedIn. I mean, I know we talked about some other things too, but it's something that has always been kind of in the back of my mind that I should be utilizing more. So yeah, this is great.

[Jeff Brown]

And then it's because it is such an underused platform by photographers, you know, it's opens up the opportunity for you as a photographer to get seen and connecting with the right sort of people, you know, and also the age demographic, you know, the, the biggest percentage, which is about 60 odd percent is actually younger than a lot of people expect. It's like the 26 to 4, 35 age group. So think people getting married, people having their first children, you know, but these are usually professional people in that 70 to $80,000 earning brackets, you know, so it is quite a young platform. Even though people's preconception of it is it's full of old, old age guys who like CEOs and companies. It's not so much potential out there and you're not going to get lost amongst the noise of all the other photographers and don't just try and sell yourself. You know, put yourself out there, tell stories, share some of your personal stuff. Even if you're connecting with people within your local geographical area, and you're a wedding photographer or headshot photographer and you go out for a hike or you go for a walk around the city and take some pictures of a new bridge or a statue or something, put that up there and tell a story, because the people who are in your geographic area will recognize that, go, oh, isn't that our city? Oh, yeah. You know, so you can really start creating local content to get yourself seen by businesses and people who. Within your geographical area. And they'll like that because it's relevant to them.

[Nikki Klosser]

This is great. This is really, really great. All right, well, Jeff, because of time, we have to move on to the last segment of the podcast, which is. I'm just going to ask you four questions. Yeah, I ask everybody. Well, and the first question is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot? And I know your main focus now is on teaching marketing to other photographers and that sort of thing, but what would you say is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?

[Jeff Brown]

I think for me, one of the big things is, one of the most important things when it comes to a photo shoot is having that client connection before the photoshoot. Because there's nothing worse than doing a photo shoot when you don't. When you haven't broken the ice. So I think for me, you know, one of the big things, especially as a wedding photographer, you know, you're going out to show over 700 odd weddings. It was much harder to photograph somebody's wedding who you'd never met in person or you'd never done a zoom call with or you'd never spoken to. And I think that understanding what's important to them and what's special to them and what. And as a boudoir photographer, you know, because I did thousands of boudoir shoots, like, understanding what people don't like about themselves or what insecurities they have. Because when you can understand what's important to the client, then you can create images that they'll totally love. And that's special and unique to them.

[Nikki Klosser]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, how about, how do you spend your time when you're not working?

[Jeff Brown]

Probably walking is one of my favorite things. Hiking. I love. I love getting outdoors. I love nature. And I've got a pretty crazy, hyperactive spring spaniel who needs at least three walks a day.

[Nikki Klosser]

I have a hyper puppy right now as well. So I understand that.

[Jeff Brown]

Yeah, just being out in nature. I love getting adults.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, cool. All right, Number three is what is a photography specific product that you would recommend to people? Whether it's gear or, I mean, I know LinkedIn, but even a marketing product, you know, just something that you think all photographers should have.

[Jeff Brown]

I would say, yeah, I would say LinkedIn. You know, if you haven't, if you haven't got LinkedIn and you haven't utilized it yet, then I would say look at it from a, you know, serious perspective as part of your, your marketing, your marketing efforts going forward and also have a really good goal of where you want to be. Do a deep dive into your business and decide where you want to be with your business, what you want to achieve so that you have goals to work for and to attain.

[Nikki Klosser]

Okay, great. All right, how about, what would you tell people who are just starting out?

[Jeff Brown]

Well, for me, you know, going back to what we were talking about earlier in the, in very beginning of the podcast, is that don't get too hung up on, on your photography. You know, if you, if people have already buying images from you, people have told you that they'd love you, your pictures, you don't need to buy another lens to take even better pictures. You don't need to upgrade your camera kit. But what you need to do, what you need to be spending money on and you don't have to spend a lot of money on it because you can get people off, you know, designers from all the way around the world for a lot cheaper now is you need to invest in your brand. That is more important than buying the next lens or upgrading your camera. Get your brand right because ultimately the brand is what is going to allow people, is going to connect with the ideal clients and it's going to make you look professional, premium and give a higher perceived value.

[Nikki Klosser]

Fantastic. That's great advice. Thank you. All right, where can people find you online, Jeff?

[Jeff Brown]

Well, obviously LinkedIn. So if you just have a look, Jeff Brown, the photographer's mentor on LinkedIn. You can also find me on Facebook and it's my own personal profile. Jeff Brown, the photographer's mentor on Facebook. And then my website is the photographers mentor.com.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, fantastic. Well, thank you again. I appreciate this. This has been wonderful and I'm excited to see where it goes.

[Jeff Brown]

Fantastic. And thanks for having me on, Nikki.

[Nikki Klosser]

All right, you take care and hopefully we'll get to meet in person one day. That would be really cool.

[Jeff Brown]

That would be great. Yeah, definitely.

[Nikki Klosser]

Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to subriceeducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a success, successful photographer. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business, lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once again, that's sue bryce, [e-mail].