← The Portrait System Podcast
The Portrait System Podcast
Running a 6 Figure Business In a Tiny Town In Canada with Kayla Butler (Re-Release)
00:54:17
Loading summary
Transcript193 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Nikki Klosser and I want to let you know about an awesome free giveaway for people on our email list. If you haven't already, click the link in our podcast description or go to theportraitsystem.com signup to get on the list. If you sign up, you'll get a free posing 101 PDF to jumpstart things. It's an epic PDF, so you'll definitely want to get this. Also, just by being in our email community, you'll get deals, sales and information about any of our upcoming events and activities. So head over to theportraitsystem.com sign up and and sign up. Today you're listening to the Portrait System podcast.
- [00:35]
B
Moving away and kind of losing photography a little bit. And I started working at like bar and I kind of lost myself. I feel. And every time I've stepped away from photography and I think back about my life, it's kind of like, I don't know, looking through a TV screen at somebody else's life, like it doesn't, I don't feel like myself.
- [00:59]
A
Welcome to the Portrait System podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Klosser, and this show is here to help you succeed in the world of photography and business. To help you learn to become financially free, doing what you love and so much more. With over 1 million downloads, countless photographers have taken what they've learned from both our episodes and from theportraitsystem.com and they have grown their businesses, quit their day jobs and are designing a life of their dreams. We keep it real and share stories about the ups and downs that come with running a photography business. You'll hear real life stories of how other photographers run their business and you'll learn actionable steps that you can take to reach your own goals. Thank you so much for being here. And let's get started. Hey there, this is Nikki Klosser and my guest this week on the Portrait System podcast is Kayla Butler. Kayla lives and operates her portrait business in a tiny town in Canada. And just to give you an idea, if she wants a Starbucks, she has to drive eight hours to get one. But even though she lives where she does, she she manages to make a six figure income despite being the only one charging as much as she does in her area. Kayla talks with us what it's like being the most expensive photographer in her town. How she does same day reveals the luxury packaging she uses and the ins and outs of her business in general. All right, it's time to get Started with Kayla Butler. Hi, Kayla. Welcome to the Portrait System. How are you?
- [02:18]
B
Hi, Nikki. I'm good, thanks.
- [02:20]
A
Oh, good. This is going to be awesome. When I got your message about just, you know, who you are as a photographer and that sort of thing, and when I say message, I should. I should tell. I don't know if I say this often enough that if people. If you want to be on the podcast, if you go to our podcast link, there is a place that you can apply. So I just want people to know that. Anyway, I don't think I say that enough.
- [02:46]
B
I think I caught it on a couple. On a couple episodes, and I was like, okay, I'm going to do it when I get an accreditation. And then I was like, you know what? No, I'm gonna do it now. And I don't know what came over me to actually, like, just go and send a voice memo, but I said, whatever, I'm gonna try it.
- [03:04]
A
I'm so glad you did, though, because there are so many photographers out there that I don't know about or, you know, I might know you, but I don't know if you are like, I know who you are. I just didn't know that you wanted to be a guest or, you know, and I hope people know that at any. Whatever level you're at. Like, sure, it's great to have people who are accredited, and it's great to have people who aren't like, so I'm glad you decided to. We want people at all different levels. But something you had said is that you live in a tiny town. What did you say? There's more cows than humans?
- [03:38]
B
No, there's more moose than humans.
- [03:41]
A
That's what it was. Canada.
- [03:43]
B
A ton of moose.
- [03:44]
A
Yeah. Okay, so you live in a tiny town, and you said you still make six figures. And my. I was like, ding, ding, ding. Like, oh, that's, like, perked up my. My interest. So we have a lot to talk about.
- [03:56]
B
We have, like, a. Yeah. A small population, I think, at night. So we go by daytime and nighttime because there's a lot of communities around us that come in to do, like, shopping and whatnot. But I live in, like, it's technically a city of 19,000 people. Okay. Which is not very much.
- [04:14]
A
No, it's not. That's actually quite small. Okay, so that's funny. Daytime and nighttime.
- [04:22]
B
I think in daytime, it's like 30,000 people. At nighttime, it's like 19,000 people.
- [04:28]
A
Okay, so small town for sure.
- [04:30]
B
Yeah.
- [04:31]
A
All right, so take us back. What did you do before Photography or have you always done photography?
- [04:37]
B
I pretty much always done it. I just celebrated a 30th birthday this month, so very exciting, very stressed. I feel like I don't want to be 30, but it's okay.
- [04:48]
A
Oh, girl, just wait. It gets the older. It gets better and better. Tell you what, I promise.
- [04:54]
B
Yeah, I've always really been into art, and I used to draw quite a bit, and it would always be portraits. And I remember being on, I don't know if you know, the website DeviantArt, but it used to be very big back in the day. And I would see all these photographers just posting beautiful photos. And I was like, I think. I think I want to get a camera and try this. And I ended up getting a camera when I was like, 15, my first canon Rebel. And, yeah, it went from there pretty well. So I've always kind of done photography.
- [05:29]
A
All right, and at what point did you start a business?
- [05:32]
B
So I decided in high school that I wanted to be employee. I did not want to be an employer. I did not want to own a business. I was too afraid of that. So I think I worked at, like. I worked at a Walmart for, like, high school years and then in, like, the photo center, which was terrible. And then I ended up moving away and kind of losing photography a little bit, and I started working at, like. And I kind of lost myself, I feel. And every time I've stepped away from photography and I think back about my life, it's kind of like, I don't know, looking through a TV screen at somebody else's life. Like, it doesn't. I don't feel like myself. It's so weird. And I always refer to it like that when I'm telling people, you know, like, how photography, how I got started and whatnot. But I left for a year, still dabbled. Like, I used my camera, but it wasn't anything crazy. And then I came home, my mom ended up getting sick, and I was 19, and she ended up passing away. And I decided that I was going to do something else. Like, I needed to do something for myself. I needed to go back into myself and do something I loved. And I ended up going to college for photography for two years. Wow. Yeah, so that was. That was a good step. I. I loved my college experience because I loved the people that I met and the people that, you know, I'm still connected with now. This was also. So I technically live in a different province than I am now. So I've also had that journey of, like, moving to a Different province and starting a business where nobody really knows me. But I'm from a tiny little island called Prince Edward Island. It's on the east coast of Canada. It's smaller than where I am now. Wow.
- [07:34]
A
Okay, so I want to just pause you there really quickly. First of all, I'm so sorry that you lost your mom at such a young age. Like, that is so traumatic in itself. And second, when you had said that, it was like you were looking through a TV screen at someone else's life. That's such a powerful way to put it. Like, as soon as you said that, I got goosebumps and I could. Like, I had this crazy visual of you sitting in front of an old school tv, just, like, sad and watching your life. Like, what a powerful way to think about it.
- [08:10]
B
It's crazy because it's happened more than once. Like, that was the first time I feel like I've stepped away from art and I wasn't me. And then again, after college, I thought I was gonna make this move to a city and do photography, and I ended up being back in a bar and bartending and like, barely picking up my camera. And when I think of that time as well, it's like I don't know who I am there and I don't know. Like, I guess this is so sad to say, but what I am without photography, because it's such a huge part of my life. Yeah. It doesn't feel real.
- [08:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So at what point were did you decide, okay, I'm going all in. This is gonna be. This is gonna be my life. I'm not gonna just watch, you know, watch my life go by anymore.
- [08:57]
B
Yeah. So after college, I, like, I said I wanted to move to a bigger city and start, you know, a photography business now again, I was still apprehensive about being my own boss because, you know, taxes and business stuff. We had two years of college. I swear it was like two weeks of business and that was it. So when I moved there, I. I didn't do that. I started bartending again. I ended up getting pregnant with my daughter. She is also a huge part of my life and I don't know where I'd be without her. But I made the move to Newfoundland after I had her, and my dad was from here, and he was like, why don't you come here and whatever. And, you know, I felt like I had that almost like that mom thing where I was like, I got a camera. I'm going to take a picture of my daughter every single day. And I think it just kind of snowballed from there, honestly. And I was like, no, I am actually going to. I think I'm going to pursue photography as full time and I'm going to be my own boss. I don't care if it's scary. Scares me now because there's nothing else I want to do. And that's where it reset again into my own life. And I was like, okay, I feel like me now. Wow. So I made the move to a different province. I knew nobody at first. I lived in a town, a community of 150 people for a year. I got all my business stuff kind of in order and then I made a move to where I am now and I opened up a studio.
- [10:31]
A
Okay, and Your daughter is 6 now?
- [10:34]
B
She'll be 6 in August. Yes.
- [10:36]
A
Okay. So she was just what, a couple years old then when you actually like properly started your business?
- [10:43]
B
She was one when I properly got like a tax number and everything and was. Was ready to go.
- [10:50]
A
All right. And then did you feel at the time that you could like, you know, provide financially what you needed when you first started your business? Like, did you start out with a great income?
- [11:01]
B
Oh, God, no.
- [11:03]
A
So everyone always responds like that when I ask this question. It's so funny. Well, it's not funny but, you know, it's common, which totally makes sense.
- [11:11]
B
I knew what I was doing photography wise, which was nice because I had all those years of practice and, you know, I loved the craft for so long. But I, to a lady in this, again, small community of like 150 people who owned, I want to say a pottery business and not in this town. But, you know, she came back to visit and she said, you should get in contact with Enlow. And I was like, what is Enlow? And it's the Newfoundland and Labrador Organization for Women Entrepreneurs. Huge mouthful. That's why they shortened it down to end low. It's like, okay. They're like, no, they, they want to help women in business. And I was like, oh, okay. So it was just kind of like a really nice business organization. But they did help. I ended up being in a program for the first year where essentially I got paid a wage. I did like a business plan out. It was phenomenal. It wasn't like a super livable wage, but it was enough income support that I could do some shoots, make a little bit of income and then still have this as a nice, you know, support system for my daughter as well. I did meet somebody in Newfoundland, so we got together and he was a huge, huge help as well.
- [12:31]
A
Okay. How nice to have, you know, just something in your community, Some sort of program or, you know, even just support, like, other women in business or men, you know. But just to have that is really, really cool.
- [12:45]
B
Yeah. Any business bureau, I feel like, is very nice to become a part of, especially in the beginning. Cause it's so good for networking.
- [12:54]
A
Definitely. Did you find when it came for time to book shoots and with marketing and all of that, that it was helpful?
- [13:03]
B
Yes, yes, absolutely. Okay. So this is another kind of wrench that was thrown my way. I got the keys to my studio in January, and then Covid happened in, like, April. I think we were shut down.
- [13:21]
A
Okay.
- [13:22]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So I was one of those Covid startup kind of businesses, which was a little. A little daunting because, again, nobody knew who I was. So it was hard to get your name out there when nobody was being face to face either. But I kind of have to throw a blessing there because that's whenever I decided that I wanted to be a member of the portrait system and, you know, get my numbers in order. Yeah, that was a huge help. I think. I sat down for, like, hours on end just watching and watching business stuff. That's what I needed.
- [14:03]
A
It's so interesting to hear different stories of what people went through during that time when we couldn't operate our businesses and we saw so many. Our membership just went crazy during that time. Because, like you said, what else were people gonna do? People were forced to sit and look at the things that they had to. When you couldn't be shooting clients. I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in the actual shooting, shooting part of it that we don't. We don't set aside the time to learn and. And, well, not necessarily to learn, because I think, you know, a lot of people out there are learning all the time, but to do the parts of the business that we completely avoid. And when you don't have anything else to do, it's like, okay, here we go.
- [14:48]
B
It's. It's nice because you can, yeah. Reflect on your business and, like, how you're actually running a business. And for me, I hadn't run anything yet, so it was kind of like, okay, well, I guess I'm going to, you know, not just kind of nosedive blindly. I'm going to go and, you know, see what the people I look up to and, like, the professionals are actually doing.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah.
- [15:10]
B
And, yeah, it was nice to. To see. To have. Like, at this point, I don't think the pricing Calculator was there, but I did. I watched all the pricing videos and I was like, yeah, now this makes sense. Like, I can't be. Because, I mean, 200 bucks sounded great. When you start until you do the.
- [15:27]
A
Numbers out and you're like, oh, I'm only getting $4 of that. Great.
- [15:31]
B
Like, yeah, yeah, that's a problem.
- [15:34]
A
Oh, man, it's. Yeah, it is. It really can slap you in the face and. But it sounds like you took what you learned, you know, from all the videos and just other people in the community. Because I feel like during that time as well, and it's still like this now, but I feel like at that point, everyone was just, like, connecting online tenfold because we were all, like, needing human contact, you know, so. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you took everything from that and then what? Like, once you were able to kind of run, you know, open business again or whatever, how did you make changes?
- [16:09]
B
Well, I. I kind of did look around. I had to see what was going on in my community as well. And when I went to talk, unfortunately, when I went to talk to the. This business organization, they were. They're not photographers. They're just, you know, strong business leaders. But it was kind of like, well, I don't understand how you can charge this. You're just a photographer almost. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We gotta back up here. And I was looking at the other photographers in my industry right here in my town, and I was like, they are only charging, you know, $200, like, maybe $500. Like, that's insane to me. So I just said, no, like, I'm going to do it differently than anybody else here. I'm going to be, you know, selling product and really loving my work and wanting people to showcase it instead of, you know, having it waste away in an online gallery that in 10 years it might pop up as a memory, but you're never going to look at it again.
- [17:10]
A
And I think it's really important that sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And. And if everyone else around you is only charging a couple hundred bucks, you just assume that's what you're supposed to do, but there really can be a different way. And do you feel like you were the first or are you still the only photographer charging what you charge in your area? And was that scary?
- [17:32]
B
Yes, I am still the only one. I have made a really good community, though. I love all of the photographers here. We have, like, a big group chat on Facebook and we were Constantly having lunch with each other, and I'm trying to get.
- [17:45]
A
Oh, that's awesome.
- [17:46]
B
And I know you can't, like, force anybody to change their ways if they're not ready or they truly don't believe it. But, like, I know some people look at me and they're like, I can't believe you're doing this here. Like, I've tried. I'm like, but what are you. What. What do you think that you could change as well? You know? And, like, I don't give the option to. Not to do, like, very minimal. Like, I'm not going to give away my digitals along with everything. And I think that's a big thing that people are like, well, they don't want product. Like, they don't know. They don't want product. They can't see the product. You know, like, they don't know. Connection. Yeah. I find I had one multiple women do boudoir sessions with me and then look at their stuff and then break down crying because it's so emotional, you know, like, that's. It's. It's a powerful thing that I don't think people realize, seeing themselves in such a beautiful light.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah.
- [18:41]
B
Instead of just, you know, on your phone, it's. It's completely different.
- [18:46]
A
Take us through what you do. Well, what do you shoot mostly? And then also, let's talk a little bit about what you do offer as far as packages and prints.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah. So at the moment, I primarily shoot maternity. I showcase a lot of maternity because it's what I love, but I also do boudoir. I do a lot of boudoir. I don't showcase it as much because I get a lot of people in, like, the public eye or like the health industry that are like, okay, I don't want this out there, which is totally fine by me. But, yeah, I post mostly maternity. A little bit of boudoir and kind of like mommy and me sessions. I strictly stay away from newborn. I've tried it for a little bit.
- [19:33]
A
You only shoot the baby with the mom.
- [19:34]
B
Shoot the baby with the mom.
- [19:35]
A
Yep. Got it.
- [19:37]
B
I tried it for a little bit, but, like, newborn, and I just realized it does not bring me joy, so I'm going to give it to the photographers that it does bring joy. And I always recommend a newborn photographer. You know, whenever mamas come in for. For maternity sessions, I'm like, you should go here. She's amazing. You will love her work. She's a great human, you know, and she does kind of the vice versa as well. She'll be like, okay, so she'll promote my maternity business. I'll promote her newborn business. And it works. Lovely, actually.
- [20:09]
A
Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I love when. When photographers refer each other. It's the best. I do that too, because I still get a lot of inquiries for Seattle, and I'm always referring to. I don't go back anymore. So I'm always referring out. It always feels good to do that anyway.
- [20:23]
B
You don't go back to Seattle anymore?
- [20:25]
A
No, I haven't been back in, like, probably, gosh, I think since 2021 maybe. I think is the last time I went back.
- [20:35]
B
Oh, my goodness. Because I remember you saying you had, like, two studios kind of back in the park.
- [20:39]
A
Yeah, I did that for a little bit for six or seven years, and I just got burned out from it, you know, it was a.
- [20:45]
B
It was a lot.
- [20:46]
A
It was a lot. So I think if I didn't have kids right now, I probably would still go back, back and forth, but it just. It was just too much.
- [20:57]
B
So. Yeah.
- [20:59]
A
Okay. So mostly maternity, a little bit of boudoir, Mommy and me, like, that sort of thing. So then tell us a little bit about your offerings, like your packages and your products and that sort of thing.
- [21:12]
B
Yeah, so I. I just offer simple prom packages. They are graphy studios. Reveal box is one of them. So I have kind of like, two options you can pick when you come in, and it's the folio box, the reveal box, or an album. And I get my albums from and photo. Most people pick the folio box, and I think it's because, you know, when you love something and you sell it, it's. It's easier to sell. And while I love albums, I feel like I've really, really, really gravitated towards the folio box. So most of my clients typically pick that. So I have a package of five images, 15 images and 20 images. And most of my clients go with the 15. I think I've maybe in the last five years had two sales of, like, the five images, and my session fee is 200 plus tax. So that covers the hair and the makeup and, you know, my time and wardrobe if they want it.
- [22:14]
A
Wow, that's pretty. I hate to use the word cheap, but that's pretty cheap for hair and makeup and. Yeah.
- [22:21]
B
Wow. It is. It is. I. I kept it at my tried and true $200, but I'm not a shoot and burn anymore.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [22:29]
B
But, yeah, it works for me. My hair and makeup artists. My hair stylist is Amazing. She doesn't charge that much, honestly, like, it's. I'm not spending money to hire them. And my makeup artist actually works in my studio with me. She's a lash tech. So my studio has, like, four rooms in it and she has one room. So she's there actually pretty well every day with me. So it's kind of nice that I have a little bit of, like, you know, human connection.
- [22:58]
A
Consistency.
- [22:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. So. So she also, you know, doesn't charge, like, a huge arm and a leg. Like, I. I come away from that with, like, I don't know, $50. But I'm not there to make money off the session fee, really. I'm. I'm there to kind of make, obviously, money off of, like, my packages and stuff. I've never had anybody walk away being like, no, I don't want anything. So.
- [23:25]
A
That's awesome.
- [23:26]
B
Yeah, no, it is really good. So the five images I sell for a thousand plus tax, which again, yeah, nobody. Nobody ever buys. But the 1599 is. Or 15 image folio box, which is 17.99, it ends up coming to a little over $2,000. That's my, you know, sweet spot.
- [23:49]
A
Okay, so your average, you would say, is about $2000?
- [23:53]
B
Yep.
- [23:54]
A
Canadian.
- [23:55]
B
Canadian, yeah.
- [23:56]
A
That's awesome. I mean, in a town where there's more moose than people. Mooses. Moose. What's the plural for moose? Mooses.
- [24:07]
B
Sometimes I say meese to be funny.
- [24:10]
A
Yeah, mees. Anyway, yeah, yeah, that's pretty amazing, especially if everyone else is charging less than you.
- [24:19]
B
I. There's a photographer that has a similar thing. She just moved here, and she's like, I can't charge. I don't have the clients. I'm trying to get clients. And I keep telling her, you know, the clients that you get at $200 will more than likely not be the clients you're getting at $2,000. Like, there might be some that come over because they love you, but at some certain points, you know, people just. It's not. They're not going to be your clients anymore.
- [24:45]
A
Right, right. Okay. So, I mean, I remember that feeling of, like, how am I going to tell someone this potential client that coming in the door, you're spending $1,000? Because I make my money off of packages as well. Like, not. Not my session. All my session fee goes to my stylist and my retoucher.
- [25:04]
B
Yep.
- [25:05]
A
When there is someone else they could go to at $200, you know, how do you kind of handle that? I guess if. If someone comes to You. And you're like, oh, Yep, average is $2,000. And even though they could go to someone else, like, how does that work?
- [25:22]
B
First off, I have a consultation with everybody, whether it's in person or on the phone. I like, in person. I'm pretty much at my studio every day anyway, so. And for them to come in and see the product. But I'll send them, like, straight up. I have a little, like, blurb, I guess I pre wrote. I'll write like, a paragraph of kind of like, hey, you know, thanks for reaching out. I can't. I'd love to talk to you about what you want to do, blah, blah, blah. And then I'll copy and paste this blurb that says, you know, my session fee is X amount. My packages started $1,000. My wall art starts at, I think, like, 490 or something. But here's a link to everything. And I send along my pricing package so they see it before they come in. Like, they know. They know they're going to be spending, you know, not just the $200. And sometimes I'll have a question coming back being like, okay, so what does the $200 cover? And I'll tell them, you know, hair, makeup, wardrobe. And I guess, you know, it's different, too, because I am in a small place, so while there are photographers, there's not a whole lot of us.
- [26:29]
A
Okay.
- [26:29]
B
And if you're looking for a specific style and, you know, and again, like, I just posted a reel yesterday saying, like, you might not be everybody's cup of tea. If I'm not their cup of tea, that's totally fine. But, you know, if you kind of want the style that I'm going for, and there's not a whole lot of people here that are going to achieve the style. Like, there's not a lot of studio photographers here. So I primarily do studio. Yeah, it is kind of nice, honestly. Not that I think it would matter. I think there is more than enough people to go, you know, around, and I have, like, you know, repeat clients that come back because they. They do really enjoy the experience. And that's what it is, too. It's. It's an experience. It's not just, I'm gonna take your picture and give you stuff. It's like, come in. You're gonna be treated like a queen for the day. I'm gonna yell at you like, you look like Beyonce because you look so amazing.
- [27:18]
A
Hey, just a quick break to tell you that since you're here listening, you have access to a really really great offer for our listeners only. We have a special promo code you can use to get 50% off the cost of membership. Just go to theportraitsystem.com or click the link in the description and use the promo code PODCAST50 to get 50% off of a membership. We rarely discount membership, so this is a big deal. As I hope you already know, the membership is how I and so many guests on this podcast reached our success and it gives you access to countless amazing videos, an awesome community, and all the tools you need to build a massively successful business. So use the code podcast50Now to join the community and to start building the business of your dreams. I'll see you there. Well, I want to hear more about your experience, but I think there is something to be said for standing out from the crowd. You know, what is it like if you are in a situation where you're freaking out about charging more, how can you set up yourself apart? You know, if your photos and everything kind of just look like everyone else's in your town, what is it that you can do to set yourself apart? And I think that's something that if you're out there listening, that you could really, really think about and, and whether that is going to be through the service part of it, offering wardrobe, helping people decide what they're going to wear, offering hair and makeup, you know, that sort of thing. So if you're, if your photos are going to kind of look similar ish to other people, how can you stand out for service? Or what can you do to your photos to make them look different so that people will want them? Like, and for you, it sounds like doing studio works for you right now to, you know, stand out.
- [29:00]
B
Absolutely. And like, I can't knock the people who go outside because we live in such a beautiful part of the world. Like, Newfoundland is so stunning. There's cliffs and water and mountains and it's very much like a very Ireland kind of vibe. Wow. It is beautiful. I don't resonate with doing it. I love looking at all everybody's photos, but it's not what I personally would like to photograph all the time. So I, I found what I love and I think that's what you have to do. You can't, you can't just do what everybody's doing because they're doing it. You have to really, really enjoy what you're doing and then people will resonate with the fact that you put so much love and effort into it. You know what I mean?
- [29:42]
A
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's kind of cool because there are clients who want outdoor, there are clients who want in studio. And if you can be that one that. I just feel like it makes things easier.
- [29:56]
B
Yeah. And I mean, not to say I won't go outside, like, I will. And I have my moments where, like, that's what I want to shoot. But I'm definitely known for studio.
- [30:06]
A
You know, Kayla, I go back and forth too. I will spend. There are times when I'm like, nope, I have no desire to be outside for whatever reason and I'm focusing on studio stuff. But, like, right now I'm in the process of, you know, it's warming up here and I just planted all my flowers and I'm praying to God they grow and that the rabbits don't eat them this year. You know, and that's the beauty of it with photography, is that we can do whatever, you know, makes us happy. And, and you can market all of those things. There is a way to market, you know, if that's something that you want to do both in studio and outside. And in fact, my, my senior shoots, we do both in studio and outdoors in one shoot. So. Yeah, I mean, you really can mix it up. However, it's important to do what makes you happy. Like, if I'm miserable shooting only out outdoors, like, I shouldn't be shooting only outdoors. I've got to, you know, mix it up or find a way to shoot in studio. And if you don't have in studio photos, start building your portfolio. And you don't need a studio to do that. Like, I built my whole portfolio and started my business in the corner of my family room, you know, so there I. I guess my point of this little soapbox section here is just to remind people there's always a way.
- [31:21]
B
100%.
- [31:22]
A
Yeah. You just have to do it.
- [31:23]
B
So the one thing I can remember from college, and I think it was like within the first two days, the professor was like, all right, so you're in photography. You're going to have to learn to MacGyver because you're not going to have this when you leave right away. Because we had like a nice studio, we had cameras we could use, we had lights, all of this stuff. And he was right. You know, like, I remember going into my two bedroom apartment and just shooting in the second bedroom after college for a little bit.
- [31:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. You're not the first person that I've heard say, like they went to some sort of, you know, photo school or whatever and ended up Coming out of it, either not knowing how to run a business or just feeling a little bit kind of, you know, lost. Like you don't have access to that equipment anymore and you don't really need all of that equipment. Is the funny thing is you learn how to use it in school, which is great, but you really don't need it all 100%.
- [32:20]
B
And I think that was where the, you know, like, you better learn to maciver, like, don't get too comfortable here is essentially what he was saying, which was actually very. Hindsight's 2020 very good advice. Like, you don't need the newest cameras, you don't need the highest end lights. You just need to know how to use light, how to manipulate light, how to see light when it's natural, and then use what you have.
- [32:45]
A
Mm, totally. Totally. Okay, let's talk a little bit about your shoots and the experience.
- [32:51]
B
Yeah.
- [32:52]
A
So I know you said you make people feel like Beyonce and all the things. Tell us a little bit about what that looks like after the consultation.
- [33:00]
B
Sure. So from start to finish, I start all of my shoots at 9am I'm not picky on time. Like, if I could spend all day with you, I will. However, I'm not going to do that to a pregnant lady. Typically, I also have to pick up my daughter from school, so she gets out at like 2:00'. Clock.
- [33:16]
A
Okay.
- [33:17]
B
But you come in at 9, you get your hair and your makeup done. That brings us probably till around like 10ish. Obviously we chat and we've chatted prior in the consultation, but I'll. I'll have all of the stuff that we've decided on kind of laid out already. So I have a nice closet which is where the hair and makeup happens. So they sit with all these like, you know, gowns and stuff. But I'll have some already pulled based on what we talked about in the consultation. And it's kind of like they're walking into their own celebrity experience. And then after that hair and makeup is done, we start the shoot. I typically shoot till around 1230. Every once in a while I do go a little later, but typically it's around 12:30. I've reeled it in within the last couple of years. It used to be like, oh my God, I'm getting out of here at 5, 5pm Like, I gotta go.
- [34:08]
A
That's a. Yeah, that's a long.
- [34:10]
B
After that, I send them away to go get a lunch. I am in the upstairs of a kind of like a mini mall building. So there's a cafe downstairs. That's usually where they'll go or they'll go do some errands or whatever. I say, give me about an hour, I'll do all the culling then. And then they come back, view the raw images. They might have like a lightroom, you know, adjustment done to them and then they choose their package from there. I don't get them to pick any of the packages prior. I'll show them the product at the consultation. Usually they'll lean one way or the other and then from there they'll go, okay, well I know the 5 image or the 15 image is this much. I think my budget is this much. And I mean sometimes they go over budget which you know, happens the best of us. And they'll go with the 20 package or wall art. But yeah, they'll view all their images. We'll have a process of yes, no, maybe and we'll go break it down until they're comfortable and they're happy. And then I also offer a payment plan option if they want to do that. So it's either bi weekly for six payments or four payments once a month. Most people are fine with paying like you know, the upfront, but I do have every once in a while some people pick the payment plan option and I tell them that at the consult as well.
- [35:28]
A
Will you tell people just logistically how you do that? Are you sending them an invoice every month or is it like off auto, just pulling from their credit card or how does that work?
- [35:37]
B
So if they decide to do bank wise, it would be, they send it to me themselves, but it's all through Honeybook. So they actually get a reminder the day before they're on reminder the day of and then if it's through credit card, through Honeybook, it'll auto take it out.
- [35:56]
A
Okay, that's cool.
- [35:57]
B
So there is a contract sign as well like saying if they miss a payment or whatever there will be interest tacked on. But I'm not a terrible person. So like if you give me like a hey, you know my car broke down, can I defer my payment till tomorrow or next week? I'm usually pretty good for it.
- [36:15]
A
Yeah, yeah. And they won't get their products until they're paid off.
- [36:19]
B
No.
- [36:19]
A
Yeah.
- [36:19]
B
And that's another big thing. Like I'm, I don't even start editing until it's paid off. So they know that if they're pregnant and they're like, well, I want my pictures before my baby's born, I'm like, okay, well you know, it's going to have to be paid in full or, you know, you won't get it until it's fully paid off.
- [36:35]
A
All right, I like this. You know, it's. It's nice to have that option for some people who are, you know, aren't comfortable with just shelling out two grand in one sitting. So. Yeah, that's.
- [36:45]
B
Yeah. And I mean, like, I remember being there and I think somebody said it, you know, if you're, if you're willing to pay your price, you're not charging enough enough or whatever, then I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, that, yeah, that's funny.
- [36:59]
A
All right, so the same day reveal, a lot of people are starting to lean towards that. And I know I always say this is just not something I would want to do at this time in my life, but what did you see are.
- [37:11]
B
The benefits of that Right after they go, they're all glammed up still, they go run some errands looking amazing, and then they come back and they see their amazing photos. And I think I really like the fact that I, I don't have to edit them for them to understand how beautiful they are. Like, the. Them as a person, you know, like, oh, I don't, like, I will take it in and nip and tuck and remove like a little bit of blemishes and whatever. But when they sit down and they see how stunning they are as a person unedited, I think it means personally to me, I think it means a lot more because I know I'm. I'm slightly self conscious about some things as well. And to go in seeing something. Yeah. And you know, when you see a fully edited photo prior, I guess it's kind of like, what did you do to this? When they know this is completely raw and they're not, they're not edited, I think it's, it's almost kind of nice to be like, wow, that is me. Holy crap, is me.
- [38:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [38:12]
B
And I mean, I always say too, like, if you're, if you have any like self consciousness or whatever. I asked them prior, like, I always say I'm super self conscious about double chin. So, like, you don't have to worry about that with me. I'll make sure that you look or feel the best you can possibly feel.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah, I, I like the. And again, if I just had more in me in the tank at the end of the shoot, then maybe I would want to do it because there really is something about that excitement. Like, like they're on a high when they're done. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's like you've just made them feel amazing. You've made them look amazing. I assuming you are posing them and telling them what to do and they just had their hair and makeup done and you know, they're feeling really great. And you know, it's kind of like psychology of selling. Not that we're like trying to take advantage of people or anything, but you know, it's when someone is really excited about the experience even before people see their photos. Cause I don't do a same day reveal. So at the end they're like, oh my gosh, I want to do this again. And you know what I should do is have my calendar right there. Like, let's book you in for six months from now or whenever you want to do it. So that way it's on the calendar. Because it is. It's such a fun, cool experience. If you are a photographer who is really taking control and making someone feel safe and feeling cared for and that you're confident in what you're doing, it's a great time to sell it.
- [39:39]
B
Truly is, I think too. Like, I'm still jazzed about the shoot as well. So I run on like 12 coffee a day. I'm the Energizer buddy. Especially after like, you know, 9am So I don't mind sitting there and going through the photos because you know what, I'm probably going to do it anyway because I'm excited about it. Because like I said, I love what I shoot. It's not very often I'll be like, oh, you know, like, I'm not really jazzed about the shoot coming up because I really only take what I love. You know, like, I'm fine with saying you might not be my, you know, we might not fit together. Or like, I don't think I can do you justice for what you want. Especially like take Newborn, for example. Like, I'm not going to do it because I know Cheryl down the road is going to do such an amazing job and I want you to have amazing pictures. So I want you to go to her. I'm the same way with anything like that. Like, if I don't feel like I can do the job justice, I will send it off to somebody else.
- [40:38]
A
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm the same way. And that's not to say that if you need to put food on the table, like, yeah, take those shoes. But I'll tell you what, it is really great to be able to refer out to Other photographers you love. Like, my son's teacher just asked me if I do family photos, and I love her, and of course I would want to help her out, but I'm like, you don't want me to do them right now? Like, I'm just not. There are so many better family photographers in our town, and here are three that I love, you know, and.
- [41:05]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:07]
A
So.
- [41:08]
B
And I think you are right with the food on the table thing, though. You are definitely right. You know, I. I took everything and anything I could, but I think that's also. Whenever you're starting out, you're trying to figure out what you like as well.
- [41:21]
A
Which is always a great point. That's a great point. And. And, yeah, whatever the shoots are that you're dreading. And it's like, it feels like doomsday. Like, that was me with weddings. When a wedding would come, I would, like, wake up in the morning, like, God, I gotta get out of bed today. You know, like, anxiety. And I knew it was gonna be 12 grueling hours, you know, that's when I was like, okay, time to do something different. So if you're going to shoot strutting it, you know that that's not what you love and it's not what lights you up. And I feel like we've been talking about that a lot in the last couple episodes with. But. But it really is important when you're designing your life. You know, you get to design your business and you get to design your life when you're an entrepreneur and it's pretty awesome. So design it in a way that, you know, makes you happy.
- [42:08]
B
100. And that goes along with charging, you know, what you're worth and charging a decent industry standard, you know, like, you're gonna have to take everything if you're not making enough to support, you know, your family and your life. I feel like I remember being. I mean, I know I didn't have a family then or very many bills, but in high school and I took a wedding and I was like, nope, not for me.
- [42:34]
A
Now. Do you ever have people inquire and be like, who the hell do you think you are, charging this much money?
- [42:43]
B
I have not run into that yet. I am very, very, very fortunate. You know, I think whenever I try to be as positive and polite and, like, kill them with kindness in every single message I send, like, I'll never just, like, flat out be like, no, sorry. You know what I mean? Like, I'll. I'll say, like, nice things and be like, oh, if you're ever looking again, like, I can't wait to, you know, hear from you, or I hope your endeavors go amazing. So I've never been met with any negativity because I don't really put out negativity now. Not to say that it won't happen, because I'm sure it will, but we're also Canadian, so we're very polite. We have to be polite. Or we get. We. I don't know, we get thrown in the water or thrown to the moose.
- [43:30]
A
Yeah. Thrown to the moose. Yeah. I have an email template that I use to respond, and I always personalize it, but I, you know, when someone says that it's just not. Not in the cards for their budget right now or whatever, I'm like, I totally get it, and I am here for you if something ever changes. And sometimes I'll even tell them about. Especially with personal branding, like, just. Just so you know, I know it's an investment. However, a lot of my clients will tell me they have straight up said that these new photos have made them more money because they book more clients, because their website looks better, their social media is more prominent, it looks more professional. So in the end, this, you know, you really could make that money back quickly, like from booking one new client. And it depends on the person and how I'll frame it or what I'll say, but there's definitely a conversation I've had.
- [44:21]
B
Have you ever been met with kind of like a negativity, like, who do you think you are? Type of vibe from a person?
- [44:27]
A
No, not ever? Like, who do you think you are? Or mean or anything like that. I've had people question it, but it was mostly when I was coming from Seattle back to Michigan, I had a photographer or two say, like, you're never gonna be able to charge your Seattle prices here. And I remember my stomach kind of dropping a little bit, even though I was like, well, I have to, because is there my cost of goods? And I'm not gonna fly all the way here, you know, and go back and forth if it's not worth it to me. So this is what I'm going to charge, you know, Even though deep down I knew it would work, you know, it like ruffles your feathers a little bit when it's like, oh, dang. And then I did it, you know, and it's not like I ever went back to these. Yeah, it's not like I ever went back to the photographers and was like, see, like, $1800 average in this little small Town in Michigan, you know, back when I. You know, seven years ago or whatever. But. Or longer than that, actually. But yeah. So it wasn't ever no clients. If I. If they ever said I was too expensive, it was done so, like, respectfully, like, oh, my gosh, trust me, I would love to book a photo shoot with you, but I just don't have the budget right now. It was always so, like, oh, I really want to, but I can't. Never negative. Never mean nothing like that.
- [45:45]
B
I think my favorite thing is at the end, they say right now, you know, like, because they want to. Right. They want to, and it's gonna happen. Listen, I know when I want something, I will put my mind to it until I get it or until, like, you know, I can visibly do it 100%.
- [46:02]
A
And, you know, the other thing I've done, Kayla is offered a gift voucher. If I wanted to, if I felt like it was worth it, especially when I was just starting out, I would say, here is the gift voucher for the session fee. So you can come in with literally, no. No cost to you, and you only buy the photos if you love them. So. And that. That works.
- [46:22]
B
I've definitely done that. I actually give my returning clients, so in every bag. So I have, like, these cute little bags made up where the folio box goes in or the album, and they have, like, a little ribbon with my logo on it and blah, blah, blah. But I'll stick a voucher in there because if they're going to come back, they're going to spend the money again anyway. So I have the session fee covered, you know, for their next return.
- [46:44]
A
Yeah.
- [46:45]
B
And I've had people use it. Like, they. They're like, thank you so much. Like. Like, oh, my God, thank you.
- [46:51]
A
Yeah.
- [46:51]
B
So, yeah, gift vouchers are great. I still put them in every bag because, you know, the clients that I have that I love, I want to. I want to keep them happy. And I want to say, like, you know, a thank you from me as well for choosing me and, you know, trusting me when no one else here kind of charges these prices, because it's almost like. I don't say outlandish, but it's a very scary thing for someone to do here. So. Yeah.
- [47:13]
A
Yeah, that's great. And it sounds like you take a lot of care with your packaging and things like that to keep it elevated, like luxury.
- [47:20]
B
Absolutely. I. Okay. But here's the thing, though. I don't know why I have, like, this strange obsession with watching video people. Videos of people like, packaging their stuff, and it looks really, like, aesthetically pleasing. I'm one of those people. Yeah.
- [47:34]
A
That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.
- [47:36]
B
It just brings me joy, so I feel like I want to do it to. To bring others joy, even if it doesn't. It's just little touches.
- [47:44]
A
Yeah, definitely. It makes a difference. Makes a difference for sure.
- [47:47]
B
Very cool.
- [47:49]
A
Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing all of this. This is really great. I love to hear the kind of, you know, just the success stories. You were a single mom, you know, moving. Moving home, kind of where your dad was living. I don't know if that was home before, but, you know, and. And charging more like being the first one to pioneer this industry standard pricing in your town. And. Yeah, it's really great. I'm excited for you. I'm happy for you.
- [48:14]
B
Thank you. It's. It's nice. And, like, so I didn't even. I didn't even touch on this, but the closest actual city that has, like, I don't know, 200,000 people is, like, eight hours away. So I have to drive eight hours to get a Starbucks.
- [48:32]
A
No kidding.
- [48:33]
B
And I've had clients come there and I've had. I've gone there and shot, and it's. It's kind of like. I don't want to say it's. It's doing the whole Michigan to Seattle type thing, but, like, I would go and. And, you know, potentially open the studio there. I feel very confident that I would make a decent return and that, you know, the clients there. It's like, I remember doing the business plan out and there was, like, 100 babies born in Corner Brook where I am a year. 100. Like, I can't base my business off of 100%. And I was like, what the heck is going on? There's, like, 4,000 babies born in St. John's right. Like, that's where I need to market as well, you know?
- [49:16]
A
And if you did it where, you know, whether you drove or, you know, I don't know if you can take a flight there from where you are, you know? I don't know.
- [49:23]
B
You can. Yes.
- [49:25]
A
Because if you planned it out, like, spent like, three or four days and did two shoots a day, that would be so worth it. Even one shoot a day.
- [49:32]
B
I typically only do, like, I'll keep my people to one one a day, because I, like, I do put a ton of energy into the one person. So, yeah, one a day, even for like, a week, getting an Airbnb. I've made friends with the Photographers out there. I have a really close friend who let me use a student studio last time.
- [49:50]
A
Fantastic.
- [49:50]
B
Like, yeah, so it's. And. And they also, I feel like, don't have a huge IPS market over there either. So I'm trying to show these people, like, look at this beautiful product. Like, don't you want to see your photos kind of spread out this way? And so I've kind of reached people out there kind of wanting to put them into the industry standards and start selling products and start, you know, truly valuing what they're doing. Because I feel like there's also a lot of, you know, $200 photographers out there as well.
- [50:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, very cool. You have to keep us posted on how that goes.
- [50:26]
B
Yeah.
- [50:27]
A
All right, so I have a couple questions that I always ask at the end of each episode. And the first one is, what is something you can't live without when you're doing a photo shoot?
- [50:36]
B
Okay. So I have been waiting for these questions because, like, I avid listener. So I thought about this for a while, even prior to like wanting to be on the podcast. First off would definitely be connection with the client. You know, if we're not connecting, I don't know how well I can make the experience for them. And communication, so communication between, you know, how the day is going to run, but also like posing them and actually having them, you know, reciprocate being like, yes, I like this. All this feels great. You know, show them back the camera. Like, communication and connection, I think are. I don't want to do a shoot without.
- [51:17]
A
Yeah, I love that. It's so important. All right, number two is how do you spend your time when you're not working?
- [51:24]
B
With my daughter and my fiance. So we're. We just hang out pretty well at home. We travel a lot. So darling is a huge part of our life. We're constantly in the car. But I also huge TV buff. I literally just binged the first part of the Bridgerton series yesterday.
- [51:45]
A
Loved it. Loved it.
- [51:46]
B
Yeah, it was so good.
- [51:48]
A
So good. I want there to be another one soon.
- [51:51]
B
June. It's out in June.
- [51:53]
A
Oh, well, fantastic. That's coming up.
- [51:55]
B
I know.
- [51:57]
A
All right, number three is what is a photography specific product product you would recommend?
- [52:03]
B
I'm gonna say a scrim.
- [52:05]
A
Oh, nice.
- [52:06]
B
I have one and I made it. So it's. It's Jimmy rigged. I got a scrim paper on Amazon. I grommet it a bunch of holes in it and I put it on PBT piping with zip ties because they're I love a good hack and oh my God, I got two super clamps and just two stands and it's super clamped onto the stand and I use it for reflecting. I use it for shooting through. You can use it outdoors if it's not windy like it is here. It is amazing. I love how soft the light is. It is my best friend in the studio.
- [52:45]
A
I love that answer. I don't think anyone's ever said a scrim, so I'm glad you said that. Scrims are great.
- [52:50]
B
Scrims are fabulous.
- [52:52]
A
All right. And number four is what would you tell people who are just starting out?
- [52:58]
B
Just starting out in. This is kind of a two parter. So just starting out in photography, I would say try every genre because you don't know what you don't like until you try it. Really be creative with what you're trying. And in business, I would say know your numbers, know your cost of doing business and try to really nail down not, not a pitch but like your why. Why you're. You want to charge the way you're charging and, and why you think you deserve because you do the money that you're receiving for the service that you're providing.
- [53:36]
A
Yeah, that's great. I love it. All right, and then where can people find you online, Kayla?
- [53:44]
B
So on Instagram it's Kayla Butler photo and on Facebook it's Kayla Butler photography and my website is Kayla butlerphotography.com awesome.
- [53:55]
A
All right, well, thank you, Kayla. This is awesome. And you'll have to keep us posted if you end up starting a new studio. You know, actually continuing to go the eight hours and proper studio out there.
- [54:07]
B
So thank you so much for having me.
- [54:10]
A
Yeah, thanks for being here. This is so great. And I will see you in the Facebook group soon.
- [54:15]
B
Absolutely.
- [54:16]
A
Hopefully. Are you going to go to wppi? Do you think you'll make it?
- [54:19]
B
Not so I didn't say this, but I'm getting married in August so we're going overseas to Italy. So I don't have a budget right now this year for.
- [54:30]
A
I can understand why weddings are crazy. Yeah, that's exciting though.
- [54:34]
B
I have to watch for pictures next year though. Next year I will be in at WPBI for sure. Cool.
- [54:41]
A
All right, well, thank you again, Kayla.
- [54:42]
B
No, thank you.
- [54:44]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Portrait System podcast. Your 5 star reviews really help us to continue what we do. So if you like listening, would you mind giving us a review wherever you listen? I also encourage you to head over to soubre dasheducation.com where you can find all of the education you need to be a successful photographer effort. There are over 1000 on demand educational videos on things like posing, lighting, styling, retouching, shooting, marketing, sales, business and self value. There's also the 90 day startup challenge plus so many downloads showing hundreds of different poses. We have to do checklists for your business lighting PDFs. I mean truly everything to help make you a better photographer and to make you more money. Once Again, that's Sue briceducation.com com.