348 – You Give Love a Bad Name

Summary

The Prancing Pony Podcast – Episode 348: "You Give Love a Bad Name"

Release Date: November 10, 2024

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Introduction

In episode 348 of The Prancing Pony Podcast, host Alan Sisto and co-host Don Marshall delve deep into the rich tapestry of J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle-earth, specifically focusing on the intricate history of the Kingdom of Gondor as detailed in Appendix A1. Titled "You Give Love a Bad Name," this episode offers listeners an engaging exploration of Gondor's lineage, its rise to power, subsequent decline, and the tumultuous events that shaped its destiny.

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Reading from Appendix A1: The History of Gondor

The episode commences with Alan reading an extensive passage from Appendix A1, Part 4, which chronicles the succession of Gondor's kings, their reigns, and pivotal battles that defined the kingdom's trajectory.

Notable Quote:

Alan Sisto [01:07]: "Join us as we look at great kings, lazy kings and usurpers in our look at the first part of appendix A1, little four. This time we're making progress covering the Kingdom of Gondor."

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The Kings of Gondor: From Ostaher to Atanatar Al Kharin

The podcast transitions into a detailed analysis of Gondor's rulers, starting with Ostaher, the seventh king, who was instrumental in rebuilding Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith) after Sauron's assaults. Don and Alan dissect the etymology of the kings' names, revealing the deep linguistic roots Tolkien embedded within his legendarium.

Notable Quotes:

Don Marshall [00:27]: "I am Don Marshall, known as the obscure Lord of the Rings, Facts guy."

Alan Sisto [02:12]: "They write that there is ample anecdotal evidence that many who enjoy his stories of Middle Earth pass over the poems very quickly or avoid them altogether."

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The Rise of the Ship Kings and the Siege of Umbar

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the Ship Kings, a lineage of Gondor's rulers who emphasized naval power. Alan reads about King Kirjaher (Hirmendacil), whose reign marked the zenith of Gondor's power, extending its influence across vast regions and solidifying its naval dominance by capturing Umbar. The narrative highlights the strategic importance of Umbar and its lasting impact on Gondor's geopolitical landscape.

Notable Quote:

Alan Sisto [20:12]: "The might of Hiermendacil no enemy dared to contest during the remainder of his long reign."

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The Kin Strife: Eldacar vs. Castamir

One of the episode's pivotal moments is the exploration of the Kin Strife, a brutal civil war within Gondor sparked by racial prejudices and usurpation. Eldacar, a king of mixed heritage due to his Northmen ancestry through his mother Vidumavi, faces rebellion led by Castamir, a descendant of the disgraced House of Castamir. The hosts discuss the deep-seated bigotry that fueled the conflict, the personal vendettas, and the tragic loss of Eldacar's son, Ornendil.

Notable Quotes:

Alan Sisto [48:16]: "It's a lot of history in there."

Don Marshall [54:58]: "Go back where you came from. Right? This just disturbingly high level of racism and bigotry."

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The Second Great Evil: Plague and Sauron's Ascendance

Following the internal strife, Gondor faces its second great evil—a devastating plague coupled with Sauron's resurgence. The discussion sheds light on how these calamities weakened Gondor, leading to the neglect of Mordor's borders and paving the way for Sauron's return to power. The hosts emphasize the interconnectedness of Gondor's internal decay and the external threats that exploited this vulnerability.

Notable Quote:

Don Marshall [75:00]: "The kin strife. We've got that first evil on Gondor. Now we're reading about the second one that Tolkien calls the greatest evil."

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Queen Beruthiel and Her Enigmatic Cats

In a fascinating detour, Alan and Don explore the enigmatic figure of Queen Beruthiel, a nearly forgotten monarch whose legacy is overshadowed by her sinister relationship with her cats. Drawing from Tolkien's letters and unpublished drafts, the hosts reveal Beruthiel's dark maneuvers, her manipulation of her feline companions for espionage, and her ultimate exile. This segment underscores Tolkien's attention to detail and his ability to create even the most obscure characters with depth and intrigue.

Notable Quotes:

Don Marshall [86:23]: "There we go, family bonds because that was not, though, the only unnecessary death."

Alan Sisto [89:54]: "So training them to, like, spy on people and come back with news, that's pretty impressive stuff."

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Conclusion: The Lingering Threat of Umbar

The episode culminates with a reflection on the enduring threat posed by Umbar, a bastion of Gondor's enemies. Despite temporary victories, Umbar remains a perpetual menace, symbolizing Gondor's ongoing struggles against internal divisions and external aggressions. Alan and Don reinforce the notion that Gondor's history is a complex interplay of valor, betrayal, and the relentless pursuit of power.

Notable Quote:

Alan Sisto [83:18]: "But Umbar would fall into the hands of the Haradrim about 150 years later."

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Final Thoughts

Episode 348 of The Prancing Pony Podcast offers a comprehensive and engaging examination of Gondor's storied past. Through meticulous reading of Tolkien's appendices and insightful commentary, Alan Sisto and Don Marshall provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of Gondor's kings, its internal conflicts, and the external forces that shaped its destiny. This episode is a must-listen for Tolkien enthusiasts seeking a deeper appreciation of Middle-earth's intricate histories.

Notable Quote:

Don Marshall [93:46]: "There's also more. In Hamilton Skulls Reader's Companion, they quote an interview the Tolkien gave in new worlds in 1966."

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For those eager to immerse themselves further in Tolkien's universe, be sure to subscribe to The Prancing Pony Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Alan Sisto]

Good evening, little masters, and welcome to episode 348 of the Prancing Pony Podcast, where we are currently laying siege by sea and land to Umbar.

[Don Marshall]

When you are slain in the battle with fresh hordes of Easterlings, I promise I will avenge you.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, sure you will.

[Don Marshall]

Hey, come on now. I'll at the very least mourn. Folks, pull up a bench in the common room and join us. I am Don Marshall, known as the obscure Lord of the Rings, Facts guy. And I am here with the man of the west whose might no enemy would dare to contest during the remainder of his long reign, Alan Sisto.

[Alan Sisto]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that the PPP has reached the summit of its power? Is it all downhill from here?

[Don Marshall]

Don, I'm here right now. That's all I'll say.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, fair enough. All right, well, folks, join us as we look at great kings, lazy kings and usurpers in our look at the first part of appendix A1, little four. This time we're making progress covering the Kingdom of Gondor.

[Don Marshall]

Don't mind me. I'm just playing with precious stones like pebbles. Folks, no matter how you arrived, you are all welcome here in the common room at the Prancing Pony Podcast, where we are reading and talking our way through Middle Earth with plenty of speculation and some bad dad jokes along the way.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, yeah, I was going to say we'll try to avoid those, but come on, we're not. We do love our deep dives into the lore, discussing our favorite themes and a whole lot more, but we do.

[Don Marshall]

Try to keep it light and fun. Think of this like a couple of friends chatting at the pub. We're very glad you've joined us.

[Alan Sisto]

Indeed, and I'm sure you'll be glad you joined as well. But before we get to tonight's chapter discussion, it's time for a segment I always enjoy, Kingly Gifts. Back in episode 327 with James Tower last season, he and talked about what was the biggest news so far this year in Tolkien publishing, and that was the scheduled release of a three volume set of the Collected Poems of J.R.R. tolkien, edited by none other than Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond. Now, I pre ordered it the minute that I could, and it finally arrived last week just in time for me to look over it, read a handful of poems, and put together a few.

[Don Marshall]

Thoughts on it, Famously. Alan, I do have to call you out on this. You have talked at length about skipping the poetry in the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit for quite A long time. So what has change?

[Alan Sisto]

Well, that's the thing. I mean, obviously doing this podcast is what changed it initially. I mean, it was one of those things where. Yes, as a reader in my younger days, I often skip the poetry. It turns out, though, I'm not the only one. In fact, on the very first page of the very long introduction from Skull and Hammond, the introduction is 55 pages long and worth every second. They write that there is ample anecdotal evidence that many who enjoy his stories of Middle Earth pass over the poems very quickly or avoid them altogether, either in haste to get on with the prose narrative, or because they dislike poetry in general, or think they do.

[Don Marshall]

I loved that line. For me, at least I. When I was young, I read it. Definitely skipped over a decent amount of it. Probably should not have, but going back and listening to the audiobook version of it, it does add a nice sort of levity to the story. So it's quite nice.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, sometimes levity and sometimes, like. I mean, I'm thinking of maybe the, the recitation of the names of the. The people who died in the battle of the Plan or fields in Rohirric verse. You know, I mean, there's emotional moments in these poems.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, there really are. And Hammond and Skull continue on basically saying that those who skip the poetry, it's their loss, for they are missing elements integral to the story which help drive their plots and contribute to character and mood. Those who hurry past Tolkien's poems are also foregoing the simple emotional pleasure one often finds in the reading of verse.

[Alan Sisto]

You know, I finally come to see how true that is. For me, I get the most emotional pleasure, if you will, from a literative verse. And there's just something about it. I'm not having to listen quite as closely to the rhyme and to the meter. Well, sometimes to the meter. But I'm listening instead for the flow of a narrative story. And the alliteration just sort of hits and highlights various things. I love that. But yeah, definitely a lot of it is integral to the story and they drive the plot forward. That's not just in the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, but even in some of the other works. Of course, those of us who have skipped the poetry are in good company. Tolkien himself wrote in On Fairy Stories that when he was a child he was insensitive to poetry and skipped it if it came in tales. Thank you very much. I think we're done here. Right. And yet there's a three volume set, so clearly he would go on to discover a love of poetry. And that happened actually in his classics studies, particularly when he had to translate English poems into Latin and Greek.

[Don Marshall]

I don't really blame him for that one either. And just as some might skip the poetry, there are some fans of the poetry who might skip the 55 page introduction just to get to the good stuff. But as I think Alan will tell you, don't do that.

[Alan Sisto]

Don't do that. Bad idea.

[Don Marshall]

Really? Yeah. It really helps provide some context for Tolkien's poetry, particularly his early work, in the context of his life.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

Also, each entry in the Collected Poems is accompanied by commentary and more often than not, variants of the poems, so that we get to see the development of Tolkien's work over time. But let's talk about the physical books themselves before we get into the actual poetry.

[Alan Sisto]

All right, well, the three volumes covering 1910 to 1919, then 1919 to 1931, and finally 1931 to 19, each volume is about 500 pages. They're beautiful hardcover volumes. They don't actually have dust jackets. I think that was the right call. The covers themselves have these gorgeous Tolkien illustrations, little gold foil title and a faux Tolkien signature on them. They're really pretty. And they come in a very solid slip case that has the same three pieces of Tolkien art that are on the covers of the books on the sides and back. So you don't lose sight of those even when they're in the slip case. The case is exactly the right size. I do have to say, sometimes cases are a little too tight. And it's really hard to get a book out with either damaging the dust jacket or the spine of the book or maybe just the slip case itself. And frankly, as much as I like the books, I'm looking at you recent box sets of the history of Middle Earth. Very hard to get those out sometimes. But that's not a problem with this set. Now, of course, each volume features one of Tolkien's illustrations like we talked about, as well as dark blue end papers and a dark blue ribbon marker, as well as a two sided color plate reproduction of the actual writing or type of one of Tolkien's poems. So it's a really nice set of volumes. Now, the paper is nice enough too. It's not too thin, it's not too translucent, and the contrast is really good. I ordered mine from the uk so it's the Harper Collins set, but it should be identical to the William Morrow set that you'd buy from a US source, given that William Morrow, of course, is owned by HarperCollins.

[Don Marshall]

And we want to mention something. While there are 195 entries, there are more like 240 individual separate poems spread across the three volumes, at least 50 of which have never been published before, and others which have only been published in very rare, sort of long out of print specialist volumes. And the appendices are filled with some really fun treasures like limericks, as well as some very helpful word lists and the glossary that will help you when Tolkien decides to use, as he often does, those really archaic words.

[Alan Sisto]

That actually is very helpful, I have to say. Now, while we can't possibly have read all three volumes in 1500 pages between the time I got the books and tonight's recording, I have at least had an opportunity to look at a few, and I thought I'd share part of one. It's actually the very first entry, entitled Morning. The version I'll read an excerpt from was written in a letter to Edith Bratt on March 28, 1910. This is after Tolkien had been forbidden to see her or communicate with her by his guardian, father, Francis Morgan, so he wasn't able to give her this poem until they were reunited three years later. The poem is 22 lines long, and I'll just read the last seven. But Wake Dear sweet gray eyes, for though a song of day doth rise from glad earth to God above, For me drear night is o'er only, when in joy once more I clasp thee to me, little one. And the day again's begun in thy morning kiss of love. Is that just the sweetest?

[Don Marshall]

That's so nice.

[Alan Sisto]

I just. I love that.

[Don Marshall]

I love that so much.

[Alan Sisto]

Very cool. It's just so tender. I love it.

[Don Marshall]

Now, of course, there are far too many poems for us to look at here. In an introductory segment, we'll create an entirely different podcast for that. But as we read through, please don't be surprised if we bring one to you every now and again. Especially the ones that are connected to Middle Earth, like the Voyage of Earendil, the Evening Star, or the Horde.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Long story short, if you found yourself enjoying any of the poetry in the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit, or if you liked seeing the development of his work in the history of Middle Earth, I think you'll enjoy the collected poems of J.R.R. tolkien. And it really does belong on any Tolkien collector's shelf.

[Don Marshall]

And you know what else belongs on your shelf?

[Alan Sisto]

What's that?

[Don Marshall]

The next part that you're about to read in the book you're about to read.

[Alan Sisto]

Alan all right. Would you take it away? I will indeed. It was Ostaher, the seventh king who rebuilt Minas Anor where afterwards the kings dwelt in summer rather than in Osgilia. In his time Gondor was first attacked by wild men out of the east. But Torostar, his son, defeated them and drove them out and took the name of Romendakil. East Victoria. He was, however, later slain in battle with fresh hordes of Easterlings. Turambar, his son, avenged him and won much territory eastwards with Turannon. The twelfth king began the line of the ship kings who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as captain of the hosts Tyrannon took the crown in the name of Valastur, lord of the coasts. Earonil I, his nephew, who succeeded him repaired the ancient haven of Pelargir and built a great navy. He laid siege by sea and land to Umbar and took it and it became a great harbor and fortress of the power of Gondor. But Earnil did not long survive his triumph. He was lost with many ships and men in a great storm off Umbar. Ciryandil, his son, continued the building of ships. But the men of the Harad led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar came up with great power against that stronghold. And Ciryandil fell in battle in Haridwaith. For many years Umbar was invested but could not be taken because of the sea power of Gondor. Ciriahair, son of Ciryandil, bided his time and at last, when he had gathered strength he came down from the north by sea and by land and crossing the river Harnen, his armies utterly defeated the men of the Harad and their kings were compelled to acknowledge the overlordship of Gondor in 1050. Kirjaher then took the name of Hiermendacil. The might of Hiermendacil no enemy dared to contest during the remainder of his long reign. He was king for 134 years the longest reign but one of all the line of Anarion. In his day, Gondor reached the summit of its power. The realm then extended north to the field of Celebrant and the southern eaves of Mirkwood west to the Grey Flood east to the inland sea of Rhun south to the river Harnen and thence along the coast to the peninsula and haven of Umbar. The men of the Vales of Anduin acknowledged its authority and the kings of the Harad did homage to Gondor and their sons lived as hostages in the court of its king. Mordor was desolate but was watched over by great fortresses that guarded the passes. So ended the line of the ship kings. Atanatar Al Kharin son of Hyrumendacil lived in great splendor, so that men said precious stones or pebbles in Gondor for children to play with. But Atanatar loved ease and did nothing to maintain the power that he had inherited and his two sons were of like temper. The waning of Gondor had already begun before he died and was doubtless observed by its enemies. The watch upon Mordor was neglected nonetheless. It was not until the days of Valakar that the first great evil came upon Gondor. The civil war of the Kin Strife in which great loss and ruin was caused and never fully repaired. I know that was a long reading, but we had to get started somewhere.

[Don Marshall]

It's a lot of history in there. Yeah, it is. We didn't even read the first paragraph. But here we start out with the fact that there are 31 kings of Gondor after Anarion. And while we're not going to name all all of them we should point out that Anarion is considered the second king because Elendil was High King of Gondor and Arnor.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And his sons Anarion and Isildur were co rulers of Gondor right up until Anarion's death in Second Age 3440 during.

[Don Marshall]

The siege of Barad Dur the next year. This is second age 3441 saw the death of Elendil and thus the ascension of Isildur to the throne of both Gondor and Arnor. But we go now to the Third Age, year two, when Isildur died After leaving the rule of Gondor to Meneldil the son of Anarion the realms were split, making Meneldil the first sole ruler of Gondor and the third king of Gondor after Elendil and Isildur.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Then the text tells us that for more than a thousand years Gondor became richer and stronger even though there was never peace on all their borders at the same time during that time.

[Don Marshall]

But by the time Atanatar II Alkarin the Glorious became king Gondor was in the beginning of its decline.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now he was the 16th king and we're not going to go through all of them. He became king after his father, hyrumenda kill the first in third age 1149. This was about 150 years before the Witch King settled in Angmar and began to trouble Arnor. I'm just trying to tie it into our last episode and kind of help you bring the two timelines together. Now, we will talk about Atanatar II later. Let's instead look at the reasons for that decay that had become obvious by.

[Don Marshall]

1149, as they'd done in Numenor. The high men married fairly late, and they also weren't having a lot of kids. So that's one thing that when you're going to live three to 400 years. But it is a problem with the shorter lifespans that they now have.

[Alan Sisto]

Correct. And sure enough, kings started dying without heirs. Though not until Taranan Falastor, the 12th king, who died childless in third age 913. For good reason. More on that in the mailbag. But then also the son of the aforementioned Atanatar ii, that would be Narma Kill the First, he died without an heir.

[Don Marshall]

So each time the kingship passes basically to another line. In the case of Philostor, it went to his nephew, Earnil the First. And in the case of Narma Kill the First, it went to his younger brother, Calmacil.

[Alan Sisto]

Right, and now we pick up where I started reading. The history as provided in the Appendices, starts properly with Osteher, the seventh king, who began his reign in third age 411. Now he rebuilt Minas Anor, what we now know of as minas Tirith in third age 420. That's according to the Tale of Years. But why did he have to rebuild it? Well, in second age 3429, the year before the last Alliance, Sauron attacked Gondor, took Minas Ithil, and then besieged Anarion in Minas Anor and in Osgilia. So that's why I had to rebuild it.

[Don Marshall]

Ah, there we go now. Interestingly, he decided to summer in Minas Anor and began a new tradition. So we are also told that during his reign, Gondor was first attacked by wild men out of of the East. These would of course be the Easterlings. And the Tale of Years says that this first invasion took place in the third age year 490.

[Alan Sisto]

Right.

[Don Marshall]

By this time, Ostohair is 268 years old and has been king for 79 years. So it is his son Torostar who defeats the Easterlings and becomes king in third age 492. He then takes the Name Romanda kill, meaning east, Victoria.

[Alan Sisto]

Right, now we should probably do a little brief word nederdery on these names. Osteher is Quenya, and it seems to be made of the elements osto, meaning city, like we see in the cinder. Incognate ost, like fornost, belegost, osgiliath. The other element is likely heru, which means lord. If you remember, Aradunokor's Quenya name was Herunumen, Lord of the West. So that's lord. So it's city lord or something along those lines.

[Don Marshall]

Nice. Torostar is quenya. This likely means king of the land. Remember, as we said previously, star, as in forostar, adustar, and so forth on in Numenor.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. All the regions of Numenor. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

And then the tar prefix, which is seen with all of the kings and queens of Numenor.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. I mean, there it's a literal prefix, right? We see, you know, tar, palantir or whatever, and it's got the hyphen, but here it's just incorporated in the word. So king of the lands. But his name after he ascended to the throne, which is Roman, to kill. That's also Quenya. Roman means east, literally means uprising, and it's talking about sunrise. But we talked about that before in terms of directions. And then that Endekill, or just Dakil, means victor.

[Don Marshall]

Well, east victor or not, he was killed in battle with the Easterlings and succeeded by his son Turambar, who not only won, but won really big, actually, taking parts of Rune. Now we move to the reign of Tarannon Falastor, the first of the ship kings. We skipped over Atanatar the First and Sirion Deal, both of whose reigns were fairly uneventful. Tyrannon, on the other hand, oversaw the growth of Gondor's navy and its influence on the coastlines near the Anduin's mouth.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. Now, his name, Falastor, means lord of the coasts, comes from Quenya falace, which you undoubtedly remember more by its cinder incognate falas, like the Anfalas, which means long beach, Falathrim, the elves of the shore. And the other element, of course, tur, meaning lord, like Turambar, master of doom. Tyrannon appears to actually be a very interesting word, a mixed language compound. We get tar, again, the high prefix that we've seen in all the other Numenorean kings names. But then we get annon, which means gate in Sindarin. Like think Morannon, the Black Gate, or the Sirannon the Gate stream. So it's an interesting mix of Quenya and Sindarin. And then again, coming back to synchronize the timelines, like I'm going to try to do here and there. It was during philostor's reign in 861 that King Earendor of Arnor died and that kingdom was split into Arthedain, Rhudar and Cardolan. So kind of now you know where we're at.

[Don Marshall]

Also, remember earlier when we mentioned that the kings started dying without heirs? Well, Falastor was so busy building a navy, he didn't see to producing an heir. And so the kinship actually passed to his nephew, Ar Neil the First.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, before we're too hard on Taranon for not producing an heir, we do need to consider to whom he was married. And we'll talk about that in the mailbag.

[Don Marshall]

So his heir, this is his nephew, Arnil the First was the son of Taranon's younger brother, Tarkyrion.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, a little quick word Nerdery. Arnil is just a shortened form of Arendelle. That actually comes to a straight from Parma El de Lambaran. 17 Tarkirian's name appears to be a compound again of Tar High and Kyria ship.

[Don Marshall]

He continued in this tradition of ship kings, getting Pelagir back up to speed and growing the navy even more. And in the third age year 933, 20 years into his reign, he succeeded in taking Umbar after besieging it.

[Alan Sisto]

The footnote to this points out that Umbar had long been Numenorean land, but that it had been, quote, a stronghold of the King's men. And we learned, of course, that they would later be called the Black Numenoreans, corrupted by Sauron and who hated above all the followers of Elendil.

[Don Marshall]

And because of this hatred of Elendil, you can probably imagine how much they hated Gondor. The footnote says that because of this hatred, Umbar was only taken at great cost.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, here's the thing. All this stuff about Umbar really is important. Not just for this part of Gondorian history, but for the upcoming civil war and for the future. The Corsairs of Umbar are not just a random group of pirates.

[Don Marshall]

Certainly not. And after Earnil the First died in a storm, his son continued this theme. Kirion Dill, just ship lover from Kyria ship. And the Indil, the lover friend element. He grew the navy more.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right.

[Don Marshall]

But some of the Black Numenoreans forced out of Umbar Made it to Harad and convinced them to attack Umbar, where Kiryandil was killed in battle after a 79 year reign.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. That is when we get to the last of the ship kings and the king who led Gondor to the peak of their power, Kyria Hire. Now, his name, or at least this name of his, because he does have another one, means ship lord from Kyria ship, which we've seen in the last couple of kings names, and Heru Lord, which we saw earlier.

[Don Marshall]

Love that. This just keeps coming back to all of it. He began his rule in the third age year 1015, when Kiryandil died fighting in the Haradwaith.

[Alan Sisto]

By the way, that's around the same time that the Istari arrived in Middle Earth, which is said to be around third age 1000.

[Don Marshall]

Ooh, okay, good timing, because it was at this point we actually read Umbar was invested. So does this kind of mean that they're doing well in the stock market, Alan?

[Alan Sisto]

Good question, Don. But no, invested is an archaic word for surrounded, besieged, blockaded. And that's precisely what was happening here. As the Haradrim and the former lords of Umbar were besieging Umbar, they were able to resupply and fortify from the sea.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, being the ship lords, the lord of ships, it's really not surprising that he continued to build up that powerful navy. But he also built enough of an army that when he came down to Umbar to break the siege, the text says he utterly defeated the men of Harad. And this was around third age year 1050.

[Alan Sisto]

Correct. Now, this was an eventful time in Middle Earth, right around the same time the tale of years tells us that a shadow falls on Greenwood and men begin to call it Mirkwood. And also that's the same time that the Perianath, those are the Hobbits, are first mentioned in records with the coming of the Harfoots to Eriador.

[Don Marshall]

But back to Kyria. Higher. This victory over Harad inspired him to take a new name, Higher Mendakil, which is south. Victor. Now, we've talked about the Heyar Men, meaning south before, back when we looked at the regions of Numenor, specifically Hayar, New star, the southwest, and Hyaro Star, the southeast.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, Hjarmen is south. It actually means left hand, and that's because the Elves look to the west as their primary direction. So if you're looking to the west, south is on your left hand. And just to kind of give you some orientation, the other Directions are Numen west as in Numenor, Roman east. And we've talked about Romendakil's name and Formen north as in Formanos and things like that.

[Don Marshall]

The indekil element means victor. We see that in names like Ramendakil and Umbartakil right now.

[Alan Sisto]

Hyrumendacil reigned for almost another 100 years after his victory over the Haradrim, for a total of 134 years. That was the longest reign other than that of Meneldil, son of Anarion and the first sole ruler of Gondor. Gondor at this time was at the zenith of its power with the kingdom reaching all the way north to the Celebrant. That's where the limb light reaches the Anduin, and it's as far north as the north edge of Fangorn Forest. The realm also extended west to the Greyflood. Now that's the river that wants to find the southern portion of Arnor. And Cardalan, meaning Enedwaith is part of Gondor at this time. And then all the way east to the Sea of Rhun, which is to the northeast of Mordor and well east of Mirkwood. And then to the south, it extends all the way to the river Harnan and Umbar itself. So huge, huge kingdom at this point.

[Don Marshall]

A lot of stuff going on there. And even though the kingdom doesn't extend to the vales of the Anduin, the men who live there basically recognize the authority of Gondor.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

However, while the Haradrim had to have their sons basically live in the king's court as a kind of hostage, Mordor in the meantime was still being watched over. Spoilers. Not for very long, because the line of ship kings comes to an end with Hjarmendakil's death in third age year 1149 when his son Atanatar rose to the throne.

[Alan Sisto]

And he's the one that we read about at the beginning of this section since the decline of Gondor began under his reign. His name, by the way, is Quenya for father of men, Atan for man, like Atani is the plural and it's cognate with cinder and edain and Attar for father, as in Iluvatar or its cinder incognate Adar, or if you've been watching Rings of Power, Adar. Now, the name Alkarin is Quenya for the glorious. And we actually get that straight from Parma El de Lambaran number 17.

[Don Marshall]

Ah, great band's name.

[Alan Sisto]

I still like Witnesses of Manwe.

[Don Marshall]

Actually, that's a pretty good one. I dig it.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, it really works.

[Don Marshall]

Back to the text, though, because at this point, Gondor was so powerful and rich by this time that the text gives us a saying about how precious stones are pebbles in Gondor for children to play with.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, first world problems, basically, right?

[Don Marshall]

Basically.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. But as is so often the case, an excess of ease and leisure led to a love of leisure for its own sake. And a laziness in leadership is what characterized alcaren 77 year reign.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, laziness for 77 years. I don't like it.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

But about the only thing of significance that he did was create a new crown.

[Alan Sisto]

Yay.

[Don Marshall]

In a footnote that we looked at last episode related to heirlooms, remember the Ring of Barahir, Shards of Narsil, Star of Elendil, Scepter of Anuminas. They were all kept safely in Rivendell. So we also see something about the crown of Gondor. The crown of Gondor was derived from the form of a Numenorean war helm. In the beginning, it was indeed a plain helm, and it is said to have been the one that Isildur wore in the battle of Dagor Lod, for the helm of Anarion was crushed by the stone cast from Barad Dur that slew him. But in the days of Atanatar Alkarim, this was replaced by the jeweled helm that was used in the crowning of Aragorn.

[Alan Sisto]

We also have some words from Tolkien himself on this crown found in letter 211 to Rhona Bear. There he writes, the Numenoreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar and archaic and I think are best pictured in, say, Egyptian terms. In many ways, they resembled Egyptians. The love of and power to construct the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. I think the crown of Gondor, the South Kingdom, was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back, but at an angle. The North Kingdom had only a diadem. Now, that diadem is of course, the Elendilmir that we talked about before.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. The text here in the appendices explains that his two sons had a similar mindset of this kind of entitlement.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. Narmacil, probably Firesword, though not aptly named, as he did just about nothing. And Calmacil, probably Sword of Light, yet another overly optimistic name.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Gondor was already on the decline during Alcaran's reign, they were no longer diligent in their watch for more Mordor.

[Alan Sisto]

But the text reminds us that the first great evil didn't hit Gondor until the days of Valakar, and that's four kings after Alkaran, and we'll read about that when we come back from the break. It's the new year and it's time to start tackling those things you've been putting off for too long. You've been kicking around a business idea for a while now, and you're wondering how you're going to make 2025 different. Look, it's time to do this and Shopify is how you're going to get it done. Shopify makes it easy to create your own brand, open up your business and get that all important first sale. You can get your store up without any coding skills. Man, I couldn't code my way out of a paper sack. You just drag and drop with thousands of customizable templates. Shopify handles all the details that would bog you down. Things like shipping, taxes, payments, all from one easy to use dashboard so that you can focus on the important stuff growing your business. Speaking of which, Shopify has really powerful social media tools to connect all of your channels and create posts so that you can sell where people scroll. Don't kick yourself when you hear this again in a year because you spent 2025 still thinking about it with Shopify. Your first sale is closer than you think. Established in 2025 has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com pony all lowercase go to shopify.com pony to start selling with Shopify today. Shopify.com pony it's the new year, so it's time to start turning your resolutions into reality. I know for me that means getting back to the gym after a rough year, fitness wise and well, without getting too blunt. That also means trying to smell better and there's a resolution we could all use. I've been using Mando. It's a whole body deodorant. I've been using it for a few weeks now and I've really been happy with, well, with smelling better. Mando is a whole body deodorant so you don't just use it on your armpits. Any place on your body that could use a bit of odor control. You can use Mando there. Yes, there too. It's proven to block and control odors all day, even in this tiny podcast booth and it's available in solid stick spray or even cream. Now. Personally, I like the Pro Sport scent, but Bourbon Leather is pretty nice too. Now, as a special offer for our listeners, new customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive code. Now that equates to over 40% off your starter pack. Use code [e-mail] S H O P M A N D O.com Please support our show and tell them we sent you smell fresher, stay drier and boost your confidence with Mando. Now we'll get back to some guy building some statues, but before we do, we want to remind you there's a lot more talk going on at the Prancing Pony Podcast than just us.

[Don Marshall]

That's right, the PPP has an amazing listener community. They are always coming up with great questions and discussions across our social media spaces. Check out our Common room on Facebook, the dedicated subreddit, Twitter and much more.

[Alan Sisto]

Now on Facebook, just look for the Prancing Pony podcast. Follow the page to get the news, but you're going to want to join the group to get involved in some great discussions.

[Don Marshall]

Or if you'd prefer Reddit, you can find us there at R prancingponypod On Twitter and Instagram, we are simply rancingponypod.

[Alan Sisto]

Hey, and if you want daily Tolkien content and who doesn't, right? Check out today's Tolkien times on YouTube and on your favorite podcast apps. It's my new short format Daily show with everything from Mailbag Monday to Silmarillion Saturday. Be sure to check it [e-mail] Tolkien Times and follow TolkienTimes on all your social media. Now. Dawn, I'm going to have you pick up where I left off.

[Don Marshall]

Menalkar, son of Calmacil, was a man of great Vigor, and in 1240 Narmakil, to rid himself of all cares, made him regent of the realm. From that time onward, he governed Gondor in the name of the Kings until he succeeded his father. His chief concern was with the Northmen. These had increased greatly in the peace brought by the power of Gondor. The kings showed them favor, since they were the nearest in kin of lesser men to the Dunedain, being for the most part descendants of those from whom the Edain of Old had come, and they gave them wide lands beyond Onduin, south of Greenwood the Great, to be a defense against men of the East. For in the past the attacks of the Easterlings had come mostly over the plain between the Inland Sea and the Ash Mountains in the days of Narmacil I, their attacks began again, though at first with little force. But it was learned by the regent that the Northmen did not always remain true to Gondor. And some would join forces with the Easterlings either out of greed for spoil or in furtherance of feuds among their princes. Minalkar, therefore, in 1248 led out a great force and between Rhovanion and the Inland Sea he defeated a large army of the Easterlings and destroyed all their camps and settlements east of the sea. He then took the name of Romendakil. On his return, Romendakil fortified the west shore of Anduin as far as the inflow of the Limb Light and forbade any stranger to pass down the river beyond the Emin Moil. He it was that built the Pillars of the Argonauth at the entrance of Nen Hithoil. But since he needed men and desired to strengthen the bond between Gondor and the Northmen, he took many of them into his service and gave to some high rank in his armies. Romendacil showed special favor to Vidugavia, who had aided him in the war. He called himself King of Rhovanion and was indeed the most powerful of the Northern princes, though his own realm lay between Greenwood and the river Kelduin. In 1250, Ramenda Kill sent his son Valacar as an ambassador to dwell for a while with Vidugavia and make himself acquainted with the language, manner and policies of the Northmen. But Valacar far exceeded his father's designs. He grew to love the northern lands and people. And he married Vidumavi, the daughter of of Vidugavia. It was some years before he returned from this marriage came later, the War of the Kin Strife.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, boy. Yeah. There's so much comes from this.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah.

[Alan Sisto]

Let's go back to the beginning of this reading. Right after the lazy reign of his father, Narma Kill inherited the throne. At least his laziness meant he didn't even want the job. So 14 years into his reign in 1240, he appointed his nephew Menalkar to be the regent of Gondor, essentially ruling in his stead.

[Don Marshall]

Although the short paragraph about Menal Khar's appointment as regent wasn't added until the second edition in 1965.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now Narmacil was the second king without an heir. We'd already mentioned Tyrannon earlier. So when Narma Kill died, the throne went to his younger brother Kamakil in 1294. Now by this point, Menalkir, a name which probably means first glory, was already regent. And Calmacil did nothing to change this, keeping him in the position of regent until his own death in 1304.

[Don Marshall]

So Menalkar ruled as regent for more than 60 years. And during that time, the text explains, his primary efforts were in dealings with the Northmen. So before we take a look at the history between Gondor and the Northmen, let's look briefly at who these Northmen were.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now we know that when the Edain went west, there were three houses. The House of Beor, the House of Hador and the House of Hala.

[Don Marshall]

Now in Of Dwarves and Men, which is an essay found in the Peoples of Middle Earth, we learn that the Folk of Beor were the first Men to enter Beleriand and that they were a small people.

[Alan Sisto]

Now after that we read about three different hosts of the Folk of Hador a much more numerous group coming up from the south. We also read that the dwarves worked closely with the people of the House of Hador. And that's where we get a clue. These men, it seems, had come westward until faced by the great Greenwood and then had divided, some reaching the Anduin and passing thence northward up the vales, some passing between the north eaves of the wood and the Ered Mithran. Only a small part of this people, already very numerous and divided into many tribes had then passed on into Eriador and so come at last to Beleriand. They were brave and loyal folk, true hearted haters of Morgoth and his servants.

[Don Marshall]

Love that combined with what we read here that the Northmen were for the most part descendants of those people from whom the Adain of old had come. It would kind of seem that these Northmen, although middlemen, having never come into Beleriand to fight against Morgoth and go to Numenor, they are indeed kin and loyal folk, remember haters of Morgoth.

[Alan Sisto]

And I think that's important because we're going to see the reaction of some in Gondor to later events and we need to talk through that.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, yeah. It's going to have a definite effect. So why was Menal cars chief concern with these Northmen? Well, they'd grown a lot thanks to the peace in the region that had come as a result of this Gondorian strength.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now they'd been given lands to the east of the Anduin and south of the Greenwood. That's in part. I mean, Gondor is not Stupid here they're not just giving them lands out of pure generosity. They gave them these lands as a defense, as a buffer zone against the attacks of the Easterlings who had typically been coming into Gondor through that area north of Mordor, south of Greenwood, coming through, you know, south of the Sea of Ruhn. They just come straight through those plains.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. And we're then told about those attacks, in fact, as they began during Narma Kill's reign.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, begin again, actually. But despite their lineage, some of the Northmen allegedly joined forces with the Easterlings and betrayed Gondor, by the way, in the first edition because Menalkar wasn't the regent. That first edition says that it was learned by the king that the Northmen had not been faithful. That got changed to regent in the second edition.

[Don Marshall]

Now, Manal Card did the Regent's job and in 1248 led a big army and defeated the Easterlings and destroyed their camp, which were all the way on the east side of the Sea of Rune.

[Alan Sisto]

Man, that's a long way further.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, that's a long way. This is another new bit that was added in the second edition here. This is when he took the name Ramenda Kill. Remember? East Victor, as we said previous previously.

[Alan Sisto]

Right now, when he came back, which must have taken a while. I mean, have you seen how far away the Sea of Rune is?

[Don Marshall]

It's ways.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. So that's when he strengthened the western shore of the Anduin. And that's the Gondor side of the shore all the way up to the limb light.

[Don Marshall]

Now he also built the Argonauth, the Pillars of the Kings at the north end of Lake Nen Hithoil. Now, we don't get to do this much during these episodes on ancient Gondorian history, so let's take advantage of it while we can. And return you to chapter nine of book two, the Great river for a look at these very mighty statues. We begin as Frodo was born. Towards them the great pillars rose like towers to meet him. Giants they seemed to him vast gray figures, silent but threatening. Then he saw that they were indeed shaped and fashioned the craft and power of old had wrought upon them. And still they preserved through the sun and rains of forgotten years the mighty likenesses in which they had been hewn.

[Alan Sisto]

Upon great pedestals founded in the deep waters stood two great kings of stone. Still with blurred eyes and cranny brows they frowned upon the North. The left hand of each was raised palm outwards in gesture of warning. In each right hand there was an axe upon each head, there was a crumbling helm and crown. And now it's word nerd time. Tolkien tells us that Argonath means royal stones as it contains the element gone Gond stone in Elvish. Compare that Tolkien says to Quenya ondo stone as a material or a large mass of stone or great rock. Ondonore Sindarin for Gondor, literally land of stone, referring to the great works and buildings of stone for which the Numenoreans were renowned. In Sindarin, the shorter Gond was used for smaller objects made of stone, especially carved figures.

[Don Marshall]

He goes on to briefly discuss other elements in Sindarin. Auth was the sign of collective or group plurals here used because the Argonath were a pair of twin statues. R was a prefix expressing royalty. We see this in Aragorn or the Numenorean kings, like our Pharazon.

[Alan Sisto]

Right now, we don't know precisely when these statues, when the Argonath was built. It could be shortly after 12:48, after his victory, or at some other time while he was regent and governed Gondor until he succeeded his father Calmacil in 1304. Or it could have even happened during his reign as king, which lasted until 1366, but sometime between 1248 and 1366. In any case, by the time Frodo sees them in 3019, they're close to 1700 years old. So that would be like coming across stone statues now that were built around the year 300 AD.

[Don Marshall]

Now, this is kind of interesting. We don't know why they are depicted holding axes instead of swords, but I believe you and Sean talked about this. This was all the way back in, I Believe, Season 4, Episode 175. You were looking at the Hammond and Skulls reader companion and you learned that the sword seemed to have been the usual Numenorean weapon. But axe is a deliberate change from sword which appeared in the draft.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And I talked about this. Really interesting, but totally unsupported headcanon on this. And there is nothing in the text to give us a suggestion as to why he chose axes. But I think about how Roman desired to strengthen the bond between Gondor and the Northmen, Right? He took them into his service, made them officers in his armies, sent his son up to them. Right. What if, like the Northmen of the primary world, Tolkien's Northmen often fought with axes instead of swords? And this was just a way of sort of honoring or acknowledging that. I don't know, totally random guess.

[Don Marshall]

I like it.

[Alan Sisto]

After all, it does seem a little bit unusual to put axes in the hands of the sons of Elendil. So there has to be some reason why Remendakil chose to portray them this way.

[Don Marshall]

You could also potentially say there's an alternate version. It's a callback to Tuor fought with the axe. Drum. Bor. Leg.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, there you go.

[Don Marshall]

Maybe. Who even knows? All right, so Argonau sidebar is over. We come back and we learn about what you touched on in that head cannon, the fact that Romendakil wanted to build the friendship and alliance with the Northmen, especially a man by the name of Vidugavia, the most powerful of the northern leaders, who called himself the King of Rhovanion. Now, his realm is said to have been to the east of Greenwood, between it and the river running.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, let's talk about his name, though, because we're going to start to see some interesting names among the Northmen. They're in a language that we don't see often in the Lord of the Rings, Gothic, and it's translated as Woodlord. And we'll soon learn that his daughter's name was Vidumavi, which is Gothic for wood maiden. But interestingly, and this is where the language thing comes into play, one of Vidugavia's descendants, several hundred years later was Marhwini, which is Gothic for horse soldier. And he's the one who led his people north to the vales of Anduin, the people that would become the Eotheod and eventually the Rohirrim.

[Don Marshall]

So the Rohirrim are descended from the Northmen and the house of Hodor. I guess that kind of explains the golden hair thing.

[Alan Sisto]

It does, but it also explains the language that Tolkien used to represent them here in the text. Gothic. And let me explain. Actually, no, let me have Christopher Tolkien explain. He mentions this specifically in Unfinished Tales, writing in a footnote in the tale of Kirion and Eorl that the names of the early kings and princes of the Northmen and the Eotheod are Gothic in form, not Old English, Anglo Saxon, as in the case of Laod, Eoral, and the later Rohirrim. He then explains that Vidugavia is a Latinized spelling of the recorded Gothic name that means wood dweller, and the same is true of Vidumavi. And coming back to this point about the language connection, Christopher writes, since, as is explained in Appendix F2, the language of Rohan was made to resemble Ancient English, the names of the ancestors of the Rohirrim are cast into the forms of the earliest recorded Germanic language.

[Don Marshall]

What didn't Tolkien think about, honestly? So in an effort to bring the Northmen closer to Gondor's allies, Ramendakil sends his son Valacar, a name that appears to mean Helm of the Valar.

[Alan Sisto]

Cool name. Yeah, yeah, very cool.

[Don Marshall]

He is going to be an ambassador to the Northmen, going to learn the language, the culture, and the policies of all of these people.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, in the original edition of this appendix, we read, in return for taking Northmen into his service and giving them rank, he sent his son Valakar to dwell for a while with Vidugavia, who called himself the King of Rhovanion and was indeed the most powerful of their princes, whose own realm lay between Greenwood and the river running there. Valacar was wedded to Vidugavia's daughter and so caused later the evil war of the Kin strife. Now, just without enough context, that almost lays the blame at Valakar's feet a little bit.

[Don Marshall]

And I'm kind of glad that Tolkien updated this because as it read originally, it just kind of looked like a political move. Valakar is being sent to marry a noble woman to the north to sort of cement the alliance. Almost as though Ramenda kills caused the kin strike. Right, but with the additions here, we kind of see that this was very far from just a political move.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it was a political move to send him there. But, you know, Tolkien has the fictional writer of the appendix write that bit about Valacar far exceeding his father's designs. He fell in love with the north with these people, going so far as to marry Vidugavia's daughter Vidumavi before coming back to Gondor years later.

[Don Marshall]

Speaking of later, that is what we are covering in the next little bit. Alan, you want to get us started?

[Alan Sisto]

I will indeed. For the high men of Gondor already looked askance at the Northmen among them. And it was a thing unheard of before that the heir of the crown or any son of the king should wed one of lesser and alien race. There was already rebellion in the southern provinces when King Valacar grew old. His queen had been a fair and noble lady, but short lived according to the fate of lesser men. And the Dunedain feared that her descendants would prove the same and fall from the majesty of the kings of Men. Also, they were unwilling to accept as lord her son, who, though he was now called Eldacar, had been born in an alien country and was named in his youth Vinitharia, a name of his mother's people. Therefore, when Eldacar succeeded his father there was war in Gondor. But Eldacar did not prove easy to thrust from his heritage. To the lineage of Gondor he added the fearless spirit of the Northmen. He was handsome and valiant and showed no sign of aging more swiftly than his father. When the confederates, led by descendants of the kings rose against him he opposed them to the end of his strength. At last he was besieged in Osgiliath and held it long until hunger and the greater forces of the rebels drove him out leaving the city in flames. In that siege and burning, the tower of the dome of Osgiliath was destroyed and the palantir was lost in the waters. But Eldacar eluded his enemies and came to the north to his kinsfolk in Rhovanion. Many gathered to him there, both of the Northmen in the service of Gondor and of the Dunedain of the northern parts of the realm for many of the latter had learned to esteem him and many more came to hate his usurper. This was Castamir, grandson of Catamakhtar, younger brother of Ramendacil ii. He was not only one of those nearest by blood to the crown but he had the greatest following of all the rebels for he was the captain of ships and was supported by the people of the coasts and of the great havens of Pelargir and Umbar. Castamir had not long sat upon the throne before he proved himself haughty and ungenerous. He was a cruel man, as he had first shown in the taking of Osgiliath. He caused Ornendil, son of Eldacar, who was captured, to be put to death and the slaughter and destruction done in the city at his bidding far exceeded the needs of war. This was remembered in Minas Anor and in Ithilien. And there love for Castamir was further lessened when it became seen that he cared little for the land and thought only of the fleets and purposed to remove the king's seat to Pelargir. Thus he had been king only 10 years when Eldacar, seeing his time, came with a great army out of the north and folk flocked to him from Calenardhon and Anorian and Ithilien. There was a great battle in Labennen at the crossings of Erui in which much of the best blood in Gondor was shed. Eldacar himself slew Castamir in combat and so was avenged for Ornendil. But Castamir's sons escaped and with others of their kin and many people of the fleets they held out long at Pelargir. When they had gathered there all the force that they could for Eldacar had no ships to beset them by sea. They sailed away and established themselves at Umbar. There they made a refuge for all the enemies of the king and a lordship independent of his crown. Umbar remained at war with Gondor for many lives of men a threat to its coastlands and to all traffic on the sea. It was never again completely subdued until the days of Elessar. And the region of South Gondor became a debatable land between the Corsairs and the kings.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, those sweet, sweet details on that battle.

[Alan Sisto]

I love it. I know. Can you imagine this, though, fleshed out as, like a full couple of chapters like we see with the Battle of the Plenor Fields.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, hey, Peter Jackson, if you're listening to this, let's. Let's get this going.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, he already played a Corsair of Umbar, so he definitely could be in. In the sequel.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, Castamere. Cast him. Has Castamere.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, I don't know. I don't know about.

[Don Marshall]

Might be a bit much.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

So we're finally getting details of that War of the Kin Strife mentioned at the end of the previous reading. And it all starts with the perception that the Northmen are less than these High Men of Numenor.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, can we talk about how troubling this is and not just from some sort of modern perspective? I mean, these are men descended from the House of Hador. These people have a history of opposing Morgoth. But the smug men of Gondor look askance at the Northmen.

[Don Marshall]

A great way to describe it. And there's a bit more detail in the drafts found in Peoples of Middle Earth, the Making of Appendix A. There we read the High Men of Gondor had long looked askance at the Northmen among them who had borne themselves more proudly since the coming of Vidumavi.

[Alan Sisto]

Aha. So in other words, once Valacar came back to Gondor with his wife and kids, the Northmen who were there in Gondor, I mean, remember, Ramenda Kill had taken many of them into his service, given them rank in the army. So these Northmen are carrying themselves with a bit of pride. I mean, they know the significance of Vidumavi's arrival of her marrying the son of the king and the next heir being her son.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. But some people in Gondor could not stand this arguing that she was of lesser and alien race. Not a good look, Gondorians, no. Nobody who is heir to the crown should be married to someone like this. To the point where there's already rebellion towards the end of the reign of Valakar.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, here's the thing. By all accounts, Vidumavi was great. The text here says she was noble but shorter lived. But an earlier typescript actually gave us a lot more. She bore herself wisely and endeared herself to all those who knew her. She learned well the speech and manners of Gondor and was willing to be called by the name Galadwen. A rendering of her northern name into the Sindarin tongue. And that absolutely is a Sindarin translation of wood maiden from Galad meaning tree like the Galadhrim or Karas, Galadhon and Wen, which is just the suffix form of Gwend, meaning maiden. We see that in Arwen or Morwen or Arwen. And Wen is actually the same in both Quenya and Sindarin.

[Don Marshall]

Love that.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

Finally, we also read that she was a fair and noble lady of high courage which she imparted to her children. But though she lived to a great age, as such was reckoned among her people. She died in 1344. Though in one copy of her death, it was said to be in 1332.

[Alan Sisto]

Okay, well, we do know that her son Eldakar was born in 1255. So she died either 77 or 89 years after the birth of her son. So assuming she was very Young, let's say 20 when she gave birth, she was at least 100, if not closer to 120 years of age.

[Don Marshall]

That's pretty good. Now of course, that is young for a high man of Gondor. So they're was. Yeah, there was concern about her descendants. Not only Eldacar but any of his sons would be relatively short lived and that they would fall from the majesty of the kings of Men. Which is, you know, because Remendakil is still alive and very much still the king. When she died, he would pass 22 years later.

[Alan Sisto]

Right.

[Don Marshall]

But that same draft says that after her death the heart of Roman kill grew heavy foreboding the troubles that would come.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, all right, we've bounced back and forth in time as we've talked about Ramenda Kill, Valakar, Vidumavi and even Eldacar. But let's try to clear that all up, give you a little bit more of a visual timeline. It was in 1250 that Valacar was sent to live with Vidugavia. Somewhere in the next five years before 1255, Valacar married Vidumavi. Now, in 1255, while he was still in the North, Valacar and Vidumavi had their son Eldacar. So there's that five year gap between the time he arrives and the time that that eldacar is born. Five years later, in 1260, Valakar is recalled to Gondor. That date is found in the typescript. That same typescript says that he returned to Gondor with his wife and children and with them came a household of noblemen and women of the North.

[Don Marshall]

Vidumavi then dies in 1344, which is 84 years after Valakar returned to a.

[Alan Sisto]

Long time that she's in.

[Don Marshall]

Long time, long time. Ramenda kill dies in 1366 and Valakar takes the throne. Now, to help synchronize these timelines, this is around the time that up in Arthedine, King Arveleg, who began his rule in third age 1356, allied with Cardalon and the elves of Lindon and drove Angmar back. So we're all the way back to our last episode. Valakar then dies in 1432. He was 238. And his son Eldar becomes king at age 187.

[Alan Sisto]

Now you'd think that a king ascending to the throne at the age of 187 would suggest that Eldar has not been affected by the lesser and alien race of the Northmen. In fact, he doesn't die until 1490 at the age of 235, just three years shorter a life than his own father.

[Don Marshall]

Kind of feels like they're just looking for an excuse. Enough. Enough. People refused to accept him as their king, thanks to his heritage. He had been given the name in the Northern tongue where he was born, as one would expect, that name was Vinitharia.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, interestingly, in the typescript we read that his Northman name bore much the same meaning as Romanda Kill. Well, yeah, as it turns out, it's been suggested that the name is a modified form of a Gothic name, meaning one who battles the Vens. They were as the Vens were a Slavic people who lived in Germanic territories. And the name has also been translated as Slav Slayer. Now, Tolkien translated it to refer to Easterlings, just as the Slavic people were from the east to the Goths. Thus one who battles the Easterlings. Easterling Slayer. Just like East. Victor.

[Don Marshall]

I feel like this man has thought of everything. My goodness. So you've got the Northman name, The Northman mother. And in the eyes of many Gondorians, this disqualifies him from the throne. Throne? We see this pretty blatantly in that typescript where we read that near the end of Valakar's reign there was already open rebellion in the southern provinces. There were gathered many of those who declared that they would never accept as king a man half of foreign race born in an alien country. Vinitharia is his right name, they said. Let him go back to the land where it belongs.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, that is ugly. That is ugly. Go back where you came from. Right? This just disturbingly high level of racism and bigotry. It's. It's deeply unfitting for the men of Numenor. Right? These are the. The descendants of the faithful who escaped the downfall of Numenor. Anyway, all that for what a paragraph. So let's go and get into the civil war now.

[Don Marshall]

Let's get into it. Eldacar took the throne in 1432. And we read that when he does that there was war in Ghana, Gondor, led by those who refused to accept him as king simply because of his ancestry via his mother. After all, there was no argument that he was the son of the rightful king.

[Alan Sisto]

Right?

[Don Marshall]

Those opposing him didn't have an easy job. He was not only a strong Gondorian, but he added the fearless spirit of the Northmen fighting against his opposition to the very end.

[Alan Sisto]

I love that. And finally we read of the end of his first reign, or the first half of his reign, as he's under siege in the capital of Osgiliath. And during that siege, that's when we learned that the tower of the dome of Osgiliath was destroyed and the palantir was lost in the Anduin. But that palantir was no joke, as we read in Unfinished Tales about the Palantiri in general. At smallest they were about a foot in diameter. Okay, so now we're thinking of the one that we see in the films. The. The bowling ball sized one. Right. But the text continues some. Certainly the stones of Osgiliath at Aman Sul were much larger and could not be lifted by one man.

[Don Marshall]

Pretty big. Okay, because in the chapter the Palantir Gandalf explained to Pippin that the chief and master of these stones was under the dome of stars at Osgiliath. Before its ruin.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, I have to say, this Tower of the Dome bit is an interesting little thing to sort of digress on it. It did read the Tower of the Stone of Osgiliath until 1973. But Christopher submitted the correction to Allen and Unwin based on what his father had done in the proofing copies where twice he crossed out stone and wrote dome in the margin.

[Don Marshall]

It's just an attention to detail level that we really don't see anymore. But whatever the case, in 1437, after five years of civil war, the tower and or that dome Rome were destroyed and the master stone lost to the river as Eldacar escapes the siege and made it to the north in Ravanion as a king in exile. And while he is there, he brought together not just the Northmen who had been in service to Gondor but also many men of Gondor of the northern parts of the realm.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, to be clear, by the way, that's the northern parts of the realm of Gondor. It's not like he's pulling the Dunedain from, you know, former realms of Arnor. He's not going to Arthedyne or Cardalan and getting Dunedin from there. There are two reasons why he was able to get men of Gondor on his side. One is just the people had begun to respect him like they saw him for who he was. But the other is that people hated Castamere the usurper.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, yeah. Not a good guy. So let's go back a few kings to kind of explain how he's related.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

So, Alan, do you remember Atanatar Alkarin? The lazy guy that did nothing?

[Alan Sisto]

The lazy guy, that's right.

[Don Marshall]

His sons, Narma Kill and Kalmakil. Narmakil was king, but he died childless. So the throne went to his brother, Karma Kill. But most of the time of their two reigns, Gondor was essentially ruled by Carma Kill's son, Menalcar, the guy who became Ramenda Kill or Eldacar's grandfather.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Well, Calmacil, right? The. The father of Menalkir, the guy who came from Mendakil. So Calmacil had two sons, Minalkar, who is talked about, or Remendakil and a guy by the name of Kalimektar. Castamir is the grandson of Kalimekhtar. So he's the great grandson of Cal Mikil. And that puts him near to the throne by his lineage. And when combined with his following in the south, he became the de facto leader of the rebellion.

[Don Marshall]

We also see that he was captain of ships, sort of like admiral of a fleet. He holds a lot of power. He's got a lot of influence in the naval forces. Not surprising. Surprisingly, then, most of his influence was over the people who lived on the coasts and near the sort of southern havens of Pelagir and the then recently recaptured Umbar.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, as for his name, it's Quenya, but we can really only be sure about the Mira element, which means jewel. We have no idea what Casta could mean.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Going back to Eldacar and how he got so many men of Gondor to support him up in the North. Well, that's because Castamere turned out to be kind of a terrible king that nobody wanted.

[Alan Sisto]

Absolutely. And the text tells us he was haughty and ungenerous. But more than that, he was just flat out cruel. I mean, when he'd captured the exiled King Eldacar's son, Ornendil, by the way, that's a name that means tree lover. He had him killed. That's not very Tolkien of him. It's more grr. Martin, for that matter. Oh, yeah, It's a very brutal sort of low fantasy moment there. Ornendel wasn't a child, though, to be clear. It's not like he dragged out a six year old and killed him in front of Everybody. Ornendo was 107. Probably older than that, actually.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah. Even so, though, I think Tolkien's definitely trying to stress the family bonds because that was not, though, the only unnecessary death. The slaughter and destruction done in the city at his bidding far exceeded the needs of war. In other words, he went too far, further than any war could justify.

[Alan Sisto]

That's correct. And he ended up being very regional in his leadership. Right. He didn't care about the land. Right. So he did people in a thien. And all these areas didn't really. They felt like they weren't represented. He was only concerned about the navy, so he was alienating all the people up in here in Minosan or in other areas. And that really came to a head when he started talking about moving the capital to Pelargir, which just ticked off the locals. I mean, hint, if you're going to usurp the throne, you should probably act like you want to stay there instead of doing everything possible to turn the people against you. I mean, after all, they were fickle enough to support your rebellion. So you just got to think about that.

[Don Marshall]

Not doing himself Any favors. So Castamir gets this short 10 year reign. So just for timeline purposes, it is third age year 1447. Eldacar and a large army come down from the north, growing that army as he travels south.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. And he gets a bunch of new support from Calenardhon. That's the region we now know of as Rohan Anorian, which is also to the north of the White Mountains, but closer to Minas Tirith, which was, of course, then Minas Anor as well as Ithilien. And that's the region between the Anduin and the Efel Duath.

[Don Marshall]

The two forces wind up clashing in Labenin. This is at the crossing of the Erui. So let's take a look at that. Look at the map of Gondor. You're going to see Erui is the easternmost river that flows from the White Mountains to the Anduin, pouring into the river south of the Emen Arnen and well north of Palakir.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, depending on the map that you're looking at, you might see a dotted line representing a road that connects Minas Tirith to Pelargir. Where that road crosses the Erui is not surprisingly, called the Crossings of Erui. And that's where we read tragically, that in this battle much of the best blood in Gondor was shed. And that is a sad reality in any civil war where all the casualties are of your own kin.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, it's kind of heartbreaking.

[Alan Sisto]

It is.

[Don Marshall]

Think about it. What we lost. We also learned here that Eldacar faced off against. Against Castamir personally, killing him in vengeance for the death of his son. But, and this is the most important thing, for a lot of reasons going forward, Castamir's sons got away and were able to flee to Pelagir where they held off the forces of Eldacar.

[Alan Sisto]

And that makes sense because Eldacar only had an army. Right. He didn't have a navy. So he couldn't stop Castamir's sons and the rest of the rebels from just setting sail from Pelargir and escaping to Umbar. And that is how Umbar became a longtime foe of Gondor, a lordship independent of the king of Gondor.

[Don Marshall]

Just unnecessary bloodshed, this threat of the Corsairs. There's piracy, there's raids. This continues for close to 1600 years. Yeah, before the text says it was completely subdued by King Eleazar's reign, which began, if you've been listening to this podcast, in the year 3019 of the third age, right? And the land between Umbar and Gondor, which is basically South Gondor, became a debatable land, right?

[Alan Sisto]

You see these on maps all the time where two countries lay claim to the same spot of land. And it's just we still haven't figured out who's who's this is. So all right, we'll come right back.

[Don Marshall]

Folks.

[Alan Sisto]

If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting the PPP by joining the Fellowship of the Podcast. It's what gives me the ability to work on making the show better every single season. Now when you join, you get the best discord community around. That includes live episode recordings, hangouts. Every month you get episode postscripts. You can get ad free episodes, free merch and more.

[Don Marshall]

You can also become part of our Questions After Nightfall episodes or even join us as a guest in the north wing. So Please go to patreon.com prancingponypod to show your support and join the Fellowship of the Podcast.

[Alan Sisto]

And you can always help us out by giving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify. And please recommend us to your friends. Dawn, can you go ahead and pick up and tell us about the Return of Eldacar?

[Don Marshall]

The Return of the King? Kind of ish, maybe, I don't know.

[Alan Sisto]

Return of a King One of them.

[Don Marshall]

The loss of Umbar was grievous to Gondor, not only because the realm was diminished in the south and its hold upon the men of Harad was loosened, but because it was there that Ar Pharazon the Golden, the last king of Numenor, had landed and humbled the might of Sauron. Though great evil had come after, even the followers of Elendil remembered with pride the coming of the great host of Ar Pharazon. Out of the deeps of the sea and on the highest hill of the headland above the haven, they had set a great white pillar as a monument. It was crowned with a globe of crystal that took the rays of the sun and of the moon, and shone like a bright star that could be seen in clear weather even on the coasts of Gondor, or far out upon the Western sea. So it stood until after the second arising of Sauron, which now approached, Umbar fell under the domination of his servants, and the memorial of his humiliation was thrown down. After the return of Eldacar, the blood of the kingly house and other houses of the Dunedain became more mingled with that of lesser men, for many of the great had been slain in the Kinstrife, while Eldacar showed favor to the Northmen by whose help he had regained the crown. And the people of Gondor were replenished by great numbers that came from Rhovanion. This mingling did not at first hasten the waning of the Dunedain, as had been feared. But the waning still proceeded little by little, as it had before. For no doubt it was due above all to Middle Earth itself and to the slow withdrawing of the gifts of the Numenoreans. After the downfall of the land of the Star. Eldacar lived to his 235th year and was king for 58 years, of which 10 were spent in exile.

[Alan Sisto]

Wow. Now, before we get to the return of Eldacar, that is the return of a king and what that meant for the future of the bloodline of the kings, we get this cool paragraph about what the loss of Umbar meant to Gondor. And it wasn't just because of the strategic value in their conflict with the Horadrim, though that was definitely a thing.

[Don Marshall]

It definitely was. But it was a symbolic loss as well, because that is where Ar Pharazon reached the shores of Middle Earth, took Sauron prisoner and Alan, let's take a look at that moment in the Akalabath.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Don Marshall]

And sitting upon his carven throne in the city of Armenelos in the glory of his power, Ar Pharazon brooded darkly, thinking of war. For he had learned in Middle Earth of the strength of the realm of Sauron and of his hatred of Westerness. And now there came to him the masters of ships and captains returning out of the East. And they reported that Sauron was putting forth his might since Ar Pharazon had gone back from Middle Earth and he was pressing down upon the cities by the coast. And he had taken now the title of King of Men and declared his purpose to drive the Numenoreans into the sea and destroy even Numenor, if that might be great was the anger of Ar Pharazon at these tidings. And as he pondered long in secret, his heart was filled with the desire for power unbounded and the sole dominion of his will. And he determined, without counsel of the Valar or the aid of any wisdom but his own, that the title of King of Men he would himself claim and would compel Sauron to become his vassal and his servant. For in his pride he deemed that no king should ever arise so mighty as to vie with the heir of Earendil. Therefore he began in that time to smithy, great hoard of weapons and many ships of war. He built and stored them with his arms. And when all was made ready, he himself set sail with his host into the east.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, what happened then? The text continues and men saw his sails coming up out of the sunset, dyed as with scarlet and gleaming with red and gold. And fear fell upon the dwellers by the coasts, and they fled far away. But the fleet came at last to that place that was called Umbar, where was the mighty haven of the Numenoreans that no hand had wrought. Empty and silent were all the lands about when the King of the Sea marched upon Middle Earth. For seven days he journeyed with banner and trumpet. And he came to a hill and he went up, and he set there his pavilion and his throne. And he sat him down in the midst of the land. And the tents of his host were ranged all about him, blue, golden and white as a field of tall flowers. Then he sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and swear to him fealty. And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad Dur he came and made no offer of battle, for he perceived that the power and majesty of the kings of the sea surpassed all rumor of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them. And he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dunedain. And he was crafty, well skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. Therefore he humbled himself before Ar Pharazon and smoothed his tongue, and men wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise. But Ar Pharazon was not yet deceived. And it came into his mind that for the better keeping of Sauron and of his oaths of fealty, he should be brought to Numenor, there to dwell as a hostage for himself and all his servants in Middle Earth. To this Sauron assented as one constrained. Yet in his secret thought he received it gladly, for it chimed indeed with his desire.

[Don Marshall]

Mmm. The deceiver of. So tricky. He's so tricky now. Despite the evil that came of all this, as a result, even the faithful took pride in the story of Ar Pharazon coming to Middle Earth and humbling even Sauron himself.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. So much so that they put a white pillar on a hill as a monument. And it seems rather like a lighthouse. Right. It's the light of both sun and moon, and shined it far out to the. The sea. And that pillar remained until the second arising of Sauron, when it was torn down.

[Don Marshall]

And now we get an explanation of what happened in the line of kings after Eldacar's return. And indeed the blood of the line of kings did get mingled with the blood of these so called lesser people.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. But interestingly, it was in large part precisely because of the usurpation by Castamir in the first place. His actions are the ones that led to the deaths of so many high men and led to Eldacar having to bring even more Northmen into Gondor. Partly out of thanks for helping him restore his kingship, and partly just to restore the population that had been sapped through the civil war. So if the rebels hadn't started the civil war, the bloodlines would have remained purer for a longer period of time.

[Don Marshall]

Irony feels like one of those feel like self fulfilling prophecies kind of stuff. Yeah, because at first it didn't result in the shorter lifespan. Alan, we just talked about it. But you know, eventually their lifespans did begin to decrease.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. As they had already been doing, the text says. And it's due less to the mingling of the bloodlines and more to do with the nature of Middle Earth itself. Right. This is an imperfect world. This is a fallen world. Right. It is Arda marred. It has the spirit of Morgoth sort of in it. So anything that is flawed, you know, we're going to see things that, that lead to, in this case, the, the shrinking of the lifespans. But more importantly than that, I think is what the text adds after that. Right. Withdrawing of the gifts of the Numenoreans after the destruction of Numenor itself. So you know, when we just.

[Don Marshall]

A real shame all around.

[Alan Sisto]

Exactly. We take the land from you because you rebelled and tried to come and take immortality from, from the Valar. So not only do you lose your land, but your lifespans are now going to shrink back to, to normal.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, and speaking of shrinking, we get a reign as a king, but not for much, because we're told eldicar dies at 235 years old after a 58 year reign as king. But of course it's not a 58 year straight reign. It was a five year reign and then a 43 year reign with just a couple of 10 years of exile.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, 10 years. Yeah, exactly. King of exile.

[Don Marshall]

All right, Alan, I think we've got one more part to read as this civil war comes to an end. What do we got?

[Alan Sisto]

We've Already had one evil. What about second evil? Oh, the second and greatest evil came upon Gondor in the reign of Telemnar the 26th king whose father, Minardil, son of Eldacar was slain at Pelargir by the corsairs of Umbar. They were led by Angamaite and Sangahyando, the great grandsons of Castamir. Soon after, a deadly plague came with dark winds out of the East. The king and all his children died and great numbers of the people of Gondor especially those that lived in Osgiliath. Then, for weariness and fewness of Men the watch on the borders of Mordor ceased and the fortresses that guarded the passes were unmanned. Later it was noted that these things happened even as the shadow grew deep in Greenwood and many evil things reappeared, signs of the arising of Sauron. It is true that the enemies of Gondor also suffered or they might have overwhelmed it in its weakness. But Sauron could wait. And it may well be that the opening of Mordor was what he chiefly desired. When King Telemnar died the White Tree of Minasanor also withered and died. But Tyrandor, his nephew, who succeeded him replanted a seedling in the Citadel. He it was who removed the king's house permanently to Minas Anor for Osgiliath was now partly deserted and began to fall into ruin. Few of those who had fled from the plague into Ithilien or to the Western Dales were willing to return. Tyrandor, coming young to the throne had the longest reign of all the kings of Gondor. But he could achieve little more than the reordering of his realm within and the slow nursing of its strength. But Telumectar, his son, remembering the death of Minardil and being troubled by the insolence of the Corsairs who raided his coasts even as far as the Anfalas gathered his forces and in 1810 took Umbar by storm. In that war, the last descendants of Castamir perished and Umbar was again held for a while by the kings. Telumectar added to his name the title Umbartikil. But in the new evils that soon befell Gondor Umbar was again lost and fell into the hands of the men of the Harad.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, it's a rough time to be a Gondorian.

[Alan Sisto]

It is, huh? Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

[Don Marshall]

The kin strife. We've got that first evil on Gondor. Now we're reading about the second one that Tolkien calls the greatest evil. Yeah, the appendix said this happened during the reign of Telemnar, but before we get into that, we should probably look at the intervening kings.

[Alan Sisto]

So Eldacar was followed by his second son Aldamir, his first son, or Nandil, being killed by Castamere during the Kinstrif. We covered that in the last section. Now, Aldamir, his name means tree jewel, was killed during a war with the Harad and the Corsairs of Umar in Third Age 1540. Eleven years later, his son Vinyarion, probably meaning new son, defeated the men of Harad. In 1551, he took the name Hyrmendacil II South Victor again. Now, he died 70 years after that in 1621, succeeded by Minardil, which probably means friend of the tower. His Reign only lasted 13 years before he was killed in battle at Pelargir by the Corsairs of Umbar, led by the great grandsons of Castamere, Angamaite, and Sangahyando.

[Don Marshall]

And believe it or not, these minor characters actually do get mentioned in one of Tolkien's letters. This is way back in 1955. An Oxford student by the name of Richard Jeffrey had written to Tolkien with some etymological questions. And in 1972 he had written written again. This is letter 347, which was Tolkien's reply to five difficult linguistic questions. But it is his second question that really intrigues us today, because he pointed out none of the kings of Gondor and Arnor had a name ending in a vowel, as most Quenya names do. Is this to make them less strange in a Sindarin context? Whereas the descendants of Castamere, who presumably regarded the later kings as half breeds, asserted their pure blood with aggressively Quenya names.

[Alan Sisto]

That's a very interesting question from this Richard Jefferson.

[Don Marshall]

Great question.

[Alan Sisto]

I mean, he's absolutely right about the fact that all the kings of Gondor have names ending in consonants. And then these two guys, Angamaite and Sangha Hyando, have names ending in vowels, which is more Quenya. Is this some sort of way of trying to say we're more, you know, pure than you? Tolkien's answer to him was clear, but it also gave us detail on these two guys names in terms of some word nerdery. He writes, Quenya was known to the learned in Gondor at least as well as Latin still is in Western Europe. Its use was honorific, and there was no reason to accommodate the Quenya names to Sindarin. And none of the Quenya names in the list are accommodated. All are in form entirely suitable to Quenya. Quenya permitted, indeed favored the dentals N, L, R, S, and T as final consonants. No other final consonants appear in the Quenya lists. So by that he's already sort of saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, they are continental endings, but that isn't actually rare that that actually is favored in Quenya. So it's more like these other names that he was thinking of were more of an exception. Tolkien goes on to say Angamaite, Iron Handed and Sangahyando, Throng Cleaver were good Quenya, but no more so than the other names, and there was no need to assert their royal descent, as that was clear. They were, however, possibly aggressive in being personal warrior names or nicknames, whereas the other few warlike Quenya names like Remendakil were political, assumed by a king in celebration of victories against a public enemy.

[Don Marshall]

Also, kind of conveniently giving us the translation of the names Angamaite, we get Iron Handed and Sangahyando, Throng Cleaver.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now we learn a bit more about this incident in which they killed King Menardil. In the drafts found in Peoples of Middle Earth, the rebels of Umbar had never ceased to make war on Gondor since the death of Castamere, attacking its ships and raiding its coast at every opportunity. They had, however, become much mixed in blood through admission of men of Harad, and only their chieftains, descendants of Castamere, were of Numenorean race. An aside. Isn't that interesting, griping about pure blood and then going and aligning yourself with Horadrim. And everybody mixes with the Horadrim anyway.

[Don Marshall]

Naughty, naughty.

[Alan Sisto]

Learning through spies that Minardil was at Pelargir, suspecting no peril since the crushing of Harad and Umbar by his father, Angamaite and Sangahyanda, leaders of the Corsairs of Umbar, great grandsons of Castamir, made a raid up Anduin, slew the king, ravaged Pelargir and the coasts, and escaped with great booty. And I do want to point out, yes, I read Angomite and Sangahyanda. That's because in the draft it was still Sanga Hyanda. Later, he changed it to Sangha Hyando.

[Don Marshall]

And if you think all of that was bad, that is not the greatest evil to come upon Gondor.

[Alan Sisto]

We have a second that's all Prelude. Yeah, yeah.

[Don Marshall]

This is just the prequel, man. We have a Deadly plague. This took place in 1636, as we talked about last Episode that plague also hit the Shire the next year, as it wipes out most of what is left of Cardalan.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. So again, tying those timelines together for you here in the south, the plague struck hard, killing King Telemnar, who had come to the throne only two years before at the relatively young age of 118 when Minardil was killed in the raid of Angamaite and Sangahyando. Not only that, but killing all of his children and a vast number of people of Gondor, particularly in the capital of Osgiliath.

[Don Marshall]

We also get a bit more information about the plague in Cirion and Eoral in Unfinished Tales, where we read that the waning of the Northmen of Rhovanion began with the great plague which appeared there in the winter of the year 1635 and soon spread to Gondor. In Gondor, the mortality was great, especially among those who dwelt in cities. It was greater in Rhavanian, for though its people lived mostly in the open and had no great cities, the plague came with a cold winter when horses and men were driven into shelter and their low wooden houses and stables were thronged. Moreover, they were little skilled in the arts of healing and medicine of which much is still known in Gondor, preserved from the wisdom of Numenor. When the plague passed, it is said that more than half of the folk of Rhavanion had perished.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah, just brutal. It's just a terrible thing to have happened. And obviously it came from Sauron, as we've pointed out. No wonder then, with so many dead, the watch on Mordor ends. They just don't have enough soldiers to man the fortresses anymore. Which leads us to what we just talked about. Sauron being the source of all this. All of this was happening at the same time as the signs of the arising of Sauron. And clearly he just wants to get back into Mordor. Yeah, yeah.

[Don Marshall]

And unfortunately it just. It's going to happen eventually. Because it wasn't just King Telemar and his children. We never get the names of them that died. The White Tree of Minas Anor also died. Now, fortunately, Telemnar's nephew. This is the son of Telemnar's youngest brother, Minostan planted a seedling of the White Tree in the Citadel. So good for him.

[Alan Sisto]

Yeah. Now he also moved the seat of government from Osgiliath, which is now partially deserted, falling into ruin, to Minas Anor. Now again, for those wondering, Minas Anor, which means Tower of the sun. Is what we now know of as Minas Tirith Tower of Guard, and some quick word nerdery in this aside, Telemnar's name is Quenya, and it likely means silver fire from Telpe. Silver, like in Telperion and Nar, meaning fire. Tyrandor's name, which is also Quenya, appears to mean king of stones, from the tar prefix that we've seen so many times. And the plural of Ondo stone that we also see in Ondaher and Andonore, the Quinnian name for Gondor or stone land.

[Don Marshall]

Tyrandor inherits the throne. With Telemnar and all of his heirs dead, and he inherits the throne kind of young. He's only 58 at the time of the plague, and it gives him the longest rule of any kings at 162 years. But it is a rough time to have that long of a reign. The plague has destroyed so much of Gondor's strength that basically it's all he can do to just guide them, to help get them back slowly.

[Alan Sisto]

But it's a slow process, nursing their strength. Yeah, absolutely. And that's when we reach the final king. In this week's episode, Telumektar. Now motivated by the death of his grandfather Minardil, he builds up his military and attacks Umbar in 1810, wiping out the last of the descendants of Castamir and holding Umbar once again for Gondor, if only for a single sentence of the appendices almost 400 years after the Kin strike.

[Don Marshall]

Leave it to Tolkien to just gloss over something so important in a single sentence. Having defeated Umbar, he then takes the name Umbar to kill, which is Victor or conqueror of Umbar.

[Alan Sisto]

Right. Though I do have to say the motivation of his grandfather's death must have been more about the stories that were told to him. Telemekhtar was born in 1632, so he was only two years old when Menardil was killed and his father Tyrandor became king.

[Don Marshall]

Definitely feels like a legend born for sure.

[Alan Sisto]

But that I'm gonna go after the people that killed my grandfather, even though I was two when he died.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, exactly. But that last sentence tells us that this victory, as many with Tolkien, is just temporary. Umbar would fall into the hands of the Haradrim about 150 years later.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. In that war, the last descendants of Bill Fernie perished, and the pony was again held for a while by the barkeep. Don, what does Barlamon have for us tonight?

[Don Marshall]

Oh, very nice. We've got Haley in Michigan, who writes in with a question that goes all the way back to book two, chapter four, A Journey in the Dark, she writes, when Gandalf was leading the company through the mines of Moria, it is clear that Gandalf, though confident, wasn't really sure of where to go when they were stopped. At one point, Aragorn told the rest of them, do not be afraid, and said that Gandalf is surer of finding a way home in the Blind Night than the cats of Queen Beruthiel. Who was Queen Beruthiel? And what is all of this about her cats?

[Alan Sisto]

Ah, fun times ahead. For the longest time, the cats of Queen Beruthia were apocryphal. They were fictitious, made up, imaginary, mythical, dubious, doubtful, unverified, unsubstantiated. In fact, in letter number 163 to W.H. auden, which Tolkien wrote in 1955, he confessed, I had never been Debri. He also talks about Strider being a surprise. The minds of Mori were just a name. He didn't know anything about them. And then he adds, I have yet to discover anything about the cats of Queen Beruthiel.

[Don Marshall]

Oh, classic Tolkien. Because in that same year, Tolkien wrote letter 174 to Lord Hallsbury, where he says, I don't think that anything is referred to in Lord of the Rings, which does not actually exist in legends written before it was begun, or at least belonging to an earlier period, except only the cats of Queen Beruthiel. In other words, there is a backstory for everything except her and her cats.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. Now, the next year, in a draft letter number 180 to a reader named Mr. Thompson, Tolkien said that there are virtually no references in the Lord of the Rings to things that do not actually exist on its own plane of secondary or sub creational reality. Same kind of thing, right? Everything exists written down somewhere, even if I'm not including it in this story. But then, in a footnote, Tolkien remembers two things that had never been written down. One was the names and adventures of the other two wizards talking about the blue in this case. And then the other thing that had never been written down, the cats of Queen Beruthio. I'd like to say, interestingly, that it had been left this way, that we know nothing, but actually what we know is really fun.

[Don Marshall]

So in a footnote, there's more.

[Alan Sisto]

That's right. There's always more. In a footnote to the chapter on the Astari and Unfinished Tales, Christopher Tolkien tells us everything that could be known about Queen Beruthiel and her feline friends. And I'm going to take the liberty of reading the entire footnote because it is worth it. Even the story of Queen Beruthiel does exist, however, if only in a very primitive outline, in one part illegible. She was the nefarious, solitary and loveless wife of Turannon, 12th king of Gondor, third age 830, 913 and first of the ship kings who took the crown in the name of Falastur, Lord of the Coasts, and was the first childless king. So now we go back, folks. Remember when we said, don't be too hard on this guy. This is why. This is why. So coming back to Christopher Tolkien and the note that he found from his father. Beruthiel lived in the king's house in Osgilia, hating the sounds and smells of the sea and the house that Turannon built below Pelargir upon arches whose feet stood deep in the wide waters of Ethyr Anduin. She hated all making all colors and elaborate adornment, wearing only black and silver and living in bare chambers neighbors and the gardens of the house Nosgiliath were filled with tormented sculptures beneath cypresses and yews. She had nine black cats and one white, her slaves with whom she conversed or read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor so that she knew those things that men wish most to keep hidden, setting the white cat to spy upon the black and tormenting them. No man in Gondor dared touch them. All were afraid of them and cursed when they saw them pass. What follows is almost wholly illegible in the unique manuscript, except for the ending, which states that her name was erased from the Book of the Kings. But the memory of men is not wholly shut in books, and the cats of Queen Beruthiel never passed wholly out of Men's speech and that King Tirannon had her set on a ship alone with her cats and set adrift on the sea before a north wind. The ship was last seen flying past Umbar under a sickle moon with a cat at the mast head and another as a figurehead on the prow.

[Don Marshall]

Oh my gosh.

[Alan Sisto]

So I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm perfectly okay with tat on dying as the first childless king. I'm like, I get that, man.

[Don Marshall]

Yeah, yeah, I get that too. It's. It's rough. It's very rough. But wow. Allan Allen yeah, as, as You, I am sure, are aware there is more.

[Alan Sisto]

There usually is, yes.

[Don Marshall]

In Hamilton Skulls Reader's Companion, they quote an interview the Tolkien gave in new worlds in 1966. I don't really know anything certain about Beruthiel, though oddly enough, I have the notion that she was the wife of one of the ship kings of Pelagir. She loathed the smell of the sea and fish and the gulls. Later he says that she went back to live in the inland city and went to the bad, or returned to it. She was a Black Numenorean in origin. I guess she was one of those people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about. You know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I'm afraid she took to torturing them for her amusement, but she kept some and used them, trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or to terrify them. Oh, my God.

[Alan Sisto]

That's horrifying. That's terrifying. I'll also say she must be pretty skilled with cats, because I can't train my cat to do anything.

[Don Marshall]

Nope.

[Alan Sisto]

So training them to, like, spy on people and come back with news, that's pretty impressive stuff.

[Don Marshall]

Are we sure that Queen Beruthiel isn't just a Sauron disguise?

[Alan Sisto]

I know. Seriously. I mean, like, she's nasty. A Black Numenorean origin. So she's already descended from the king's men. She's already. I mean, what did Tyrannon marry her for? Was this maybe some attempt at sort of trying to heal the rift between Umbar and Gondor? I don't know.

[Don Marshall]

Who's to say? Maybe we'll find a note 20 years from now in a desk from Tolkien's that was lost.

[Alan Sisto]

But I'll tell you what, sending her on a ship, set adrift, I just.

[Don Marshall]

I love it.

[Alan Sisto]

Like, see ya. Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

[Don Marshall]

This is a divorce in Middle Earth. Farewell.

[Alan Sisto]

Oh, man. And yet. So even though in historical terms, they erased her name from the Book of the Kings, Right. She never existed. It's sort of like a we'll never speak of this again. And yet, because of the legend of her cats, it's never passed completely out of men's speech. Like, nobody knows anything about Beruthiel because there's nothing written about her in the Book of the Kings because she was a terrible person. But we all know about her cats. There's this little textual ruin of the cats I absolutely think that's so fascinating, so much fun. And just shows, once again, the depth to which Tolkien creates this world. Yeah.

[Don Marshall]

And the depth with which I think he really hated cats, to be honest.

[Alan Sisto]

Well, I know he hated at least Siamese cats because there's a letter where he's asked about, basically, can these people name the litter of cats after Tolkien's, you know, some of the character names. And he says, you know, don't tell them this, but, you know, basically, Siamese cats are the fauna of Mordor.

[Don Marshall]

Oops.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, I don't know whether he thinks that about other cats. I have no idea. But, you know, we also know that the predecessor to Sauron was Tevildo, a giant cat, and that the best animal in all of the legendarium was Huan the dog. So, yes, you know, it's the best. The best of the best boys ever. Yeah. All right. Well, folks, that does wrap it up for another episode of the Prancing Pony podcast. But please be sure to come back next week when we hear prophecy from Malbeth the Seer and Glorfindel the Balrog Killer.

[Don Marshall]

This one's gonna be good, Alan. And I do want to thank the members of Team PPP editor Jordan Rannells, Barleyman, Becca Davis, social media manager Casey Hilsey, event and patreon coordinator Katie McKenna, graphic artist Megan Collins, and website guru Phil Dean.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, please take a minute to check out the prancingponypodcast.com that's where you'll find show notes, outtakes, Prancing Pony Ponderings, our online storefront where you can get PPP merch, including all the amazing episode artwork that Megan's been working on for the Prancing Pony podcast for the last two plus seasons.

[Don Marshall]

You'll also want to visit our library page. The Prancing Pony Podcast is, after all, a podcast about the books. So if you are interested in the book we've mentioned on the show, you can find a link for it in our library. You do get a small amount of compensation when you make that purchase, and we do thank you for that.

[Alan Sisto]

Indeed we do. And we also want to thank our patrons at the cirdance contribution tier. I'll start with Demay in Alaska, Chad in Texas, Lance in New Jersey, Paul in Colorado, Joseph in Michigan, Kathy from North Carolina, Carlos in California, Brian in the uk, Jerry from Washington, Joe in Washington, Irwin from the Netherlands, Ben in Minnesota, Anthony in Texas, Carol. Karen in the uk, June in Ireland, Zaksu in Illinois, Sarah in New Jersey, Joshua in Massachusetts, Lucy in Texas, and Keith in Alabama.

[Don Marshall]

There's also Erica in Texas, Carson in Oklahoma, Vivian in California, James in Massachusetts, Ann in Kentucky, Sean in New Jersey, Mason in California, Maureen from Massachusetts, Olivia in London, Robert in Arizona, Nick in Wisconsin, Lewis in South Carolina, Thomas in Germany, Craig in California, Bailey in Texas, Kevin in Massachusetts, Julie in Washington, Bruce in California, and Joe in Maryland. Thank you all very much for the support indeed.

[Alan Sisto]

Thank you.

[Don Marshall]

Also, make sure you don't miss any episodes of the Prancing Pony podcast. You can subscribe now through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcasting app.

[Alan Sisto]

And one last thing. As always, don't forget to send your thoughts, comments, and most of all, your precious stones for Gondorian kids to play with. I mean, come on, they gotta have something to do to Barliman the prancingponypodcast.com.

[Don Marshall]

And if you want your voice literally heard, well, just send us audio of your questions. Visit pod inbox.com prancingponypod and record your questions for us, please. Though, be sure to still email questions to Barliman correct.

[Alan Sisto]

Now, even though Barlaman's been a lot more reliable these last few years, there is still a lot of mail to sort through. We'll try to get to you just as soon as we're able. As always, this has been far too short a time to spend among such excellent and admirable listeners. But until next time, I have been.

[Don Marshall]

Don Marshall, the obscure Lord of the Rings Facts guy and this has been the man of the west with not a kin strife in sight. Because I will be back next week. Alan Sesto hello, it is Ryan. And we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps. You know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan a fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free, anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up now at chumbacasino. Com. That's chumbacasino. Com sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law. 18/ Terms and Conditions apply.