The Prancing Pony Podcast – Episode 387: "We Can Work it Out"

Date: October 26, 2025
Hosts: Alan Sisto & Sara Brown
Notable Guests: Tom (North Wing Patron Segment)

Main Episode Theme:

The Challenge of Relationship, Communication, and Duty in "Aldarion and Erendis"

This episode of The Prancing Pony Podcast delves deep into the next segment of J.R.R. Tolkien's tale "Aldarion and Erendis" from Unfinished Tales. Alan and Sara explore themes of love, communication (or the lack thereof), generational dynamics, and conflicting priorities between vocation and partnership. The hosts, with self-effacing humor and scholarly insight, highlight the intricacy of the story’s relationships, present a detailed breakdown of the main characters' choices, and reflect on Tolkien’s own voice within the tale.

Detailed Recap and Discussion Points

1. Opening & North Wing Listener Segment

Timestamps: 04:02 – 09:06
Discussion:

• Special guest Tom from Pittsburgh shares his Tolkien journey, starting with the Rankin/Bass animated films at age 4.
• Family reactions: Wife thinks he's "a bit obsessive"; kids enjoy Tolkien, currently reading The Lord of the Rings together.
• Favorite work: The Silmarillion for its depth; favorite non-legendarium: "Leaf by Niggle".
• "You find something new every time you read one of the books." – Tom [05:51]
• Tolkien goals include attending Oxonmoot in Oxford ("One of these days… maybe when the kids are older" [07:04])
• Favorite scene: Shelob's Lair; favorite elf: Círdan; Rohan vs. Gondor ("not a farm guy, so I'd have to say Gondor" [08:10]); favorite Tolkien artist: Alan Lee.

Memorable Quote:
"I find some little snippet that you didn’t catch before and you’re like, oh wow, that totally changed how I looked at that character." – Tom [05:55]

2. Recapping the Plot: "Aldarion & Erendis" – Last Episode to Now

Timestamps: 09:13 – 11:33
Key Points:

• The hosts recount the growing tensions between Aldarion and Erendis — debates about sharing love for the sea versus the land, misunderstandings, and emotional distance.
• Erendis’ and Aldarion’s conflict is both personal and emblematic of incompatible passions.

Memorable Quote:
"It didn’t go well…anybody who’s been in a relationship for a long time can say I can remember a few quiet car rides." – Alan Sisto [12:06-12:24]

3. Generational Dynamics & Parental Advice

Timestamps: 12:35 – 26:59
Key Points:

• Erendis seeks advice from her mother, Nuneth, after separating from Aldarion. Nuneth’s advice: a woman "must share her husband’s love with his work…or make him a thing not lovable." [13:10-15:18]
• Sara and Alan sharply critique Nuneth’s advice as one-sided, reflecting on partnership dynamics:
  • Alan: "It isn’t only her having to share me with the show. It’s also me having to share her with her work… That’s how a partnership is supposed to work." [15:41-16:26]
  • Sara: "My husband goes out fishing… can’t think of many things I’d like to do less, but I ensure he has the time… he has never been anything but 100% supportive of anything I’ve done." [16:22-17:09]
• Analysis of love as not a finite resource: "Love is not pie. You can give your love to a person and to a hobby." – Sara Brown [19:03]
• The hosts discuss how deep-seated generational expectations and lack of balance cause dysfunction, not just in Erendis but in her daughter later (Ancalimë), and consider Tolkien’s intent.
• Nuneth’s ulterior motive is revealed: Her priority is royal grandchildren, not her daughter’s wellbeing [25:51-26:40].

Memorable Quote:
"Love is not pie. You know, love is infinite… gives me a chuckle." – Sara Brown [19:03]
"Here is a reason why Erendis had this viewpoint. She grew up in this environment where she was being told, she is the one who has to change, she is the one who has to capitulate…" – Alan Sisto [24:58]

4. Textual Discussion – Reconciliation & Commitment

Timestamps: 29:36 – 36:32
Key Points:

• After much tension, Erendis agrees to return to Armenelos; the queen (Almariën) and Nuneth encourage her, but it’s ultimately her choice.
• Aldarion and Erendis publicly reconcile and, during the Erukyerme (Sacred Festival of Spring), their betrothal is confirmed atop the Meneltarma, signaling their official commitment [36:32].

Quote:
"…as public a confirmation that, yes, they are still an item… their separation is no longer a thing…" – Alan Sisto [35:44-36:09]

5. The Philosophical Debate: Gifts, Ambition & Contentment

Timestamps: 38:48 – 55:40
Key Points:

• Erendis asks Aldarion if he loves Númenor for itself; he deflects, speaks of the island’s "potential"; she argues that true love and gratitude value the gift for its own sake, not as a resource for expansion [43:58-45:44].
• Alan and Sara unpack:
  • Aldarion sees resources and power; Erendis sees intrinsic value and presence.
  • “Love the land for itself… not for barter, for more or for better…”
  • Living for a "phantom of our own design"—the dangers of always seeking the future and not living in the now [49:52-54:33].
  • The symbolism and tradition of the "Star-brow" (Tar-Elestirnë) and the differences in legacy lines (Erendis' jewel vs. the Elendilmir).

Notable Quotes:
"Love is infinite. That means that you can give your love to a person and to a hobby." – Sara Brown [19:31]
"We cannot dwell in the time that is to come, lest we lose our now for a phantom of our own design." – Erendis (read by Sara) [46:36]
"It's hardly ever as cut and dried as that… Sometimes it’s left kind of open." – Sara Brown [47:56]
"Now and in all nows. [pause] So good." – Alan Sisto [49:13]
"These words of Erendis resonate down the centuries." – Sara Brown [54:32]

6. Cracks Beneath the Surface: After the Betrothal

Timestamps: 62:05 – 77:41
Key Points:

• Meneldur (the King) gives Erendis land and a house as a betrothal gift—Alan notes: "huge tracts of land" [62:45].
• Aldarion offers “other jewels” but Erendis chooses the original diamond—a symbol of their fraught and lengthy relationship.
• Erendis becomes Tar-Elestirnë, the Lady of the Star-brow—establishing a royal tradition.
• Joy is short-lived: Aldarion's absence from the Guild of Venturers causes dissent; his duty to the forests is neglected, timber runs short.
• Erendis tries to share in Aldarion’s forestry (her mother’s advice), but is distressed by the felling of trees. She withdraws, and their time together wanes even before marriage ("they were less in company" [62:30]).

Quote:
"That does not bode well." – Sara Brown [62:05]
"She’s trying, isn’t she? She’s trying to share her husband’s love...but it’s too much for nothing back." – Alan Sisto [62:28]

7. The Sea-Longing Strikes: Delay and Escapism

Timestamps: 77:57 – 88:25
Key Points:

• Custom dictates betrothals last no more than three years, but Aldarion continues to delay.
• While visiting Erendis’ family ahead of the anticipated wedding, the “sea-longing” seizes Aldarion powerfully: "as though a great hand had been laid on his throat…" [81:32-82:28]; he fights it, but grows withdrawn and distant.
• Erendis senses trouble, is emotionally shaken, but neither confront it: "Still he said nothing to her of his trouble, for indeed he was at war within himself and irresolute." [80:55]
• The effects of silence: Nuneth believes "words may open wounds," but Alan and Sara forcefully argue that silence can be even more damaging ("silence can rip those wounds open…" [86:12]).

8. The Father–Son Confrontation: Duty versus Desire

Timestamps: 88:25 – 122:56
Key Points:

• After more than three years, Meneldur summons Aldarion, questions the continued delay: “when will you give me the daughter I have so long desired? ... More than three years have now passed…” [97:08]
• Aldarion, overtaken again by the sea-longing, makes excuses; Meneldur states plainly: "a man shall not have two wives… you cannot wed the sea, for you are affianced to Erendis." [105:28]
• Aldarion’s responses are evasive, defensive, and unfairly shift blame onto Erendis for her prior caution ("She held back well nigh 12 years when I was eager" [116:42]).
• Meneldur counters with clarity: At the time, Erendis was not bound by betrothal, but now neither of them is free. Aldarion owes her an implied promise, for she accepted his suit trusting he was "master of himself."
• Aldarion resents being "pushed," leaves angry—a cycle of self-centeredness, pride, and deflection ("It was ever his mood if he thought that others combined to urge him... to turn away from it." [109:05])
• Alan and Sara discuss how Aldarion's selfishness, transactional view of relationships, and emotional immaturity are at the root of all these missed connections and pain.

Notable Quotes:
*"You take your grace for granted…" – Meneldur [116:00]
"That is toddler-level stuff." – Alan Sisto [111:01]
"If you want to be a sailor, be a sailor. Tell her it isn’t going to work and go." – Sara Brown [90:50]
"All of this points to him making choices, selfishly choices... he has no real consideration for Erendis or anyone." – Sara Brown [121:07]
"We can only understand what we experience. He can feel sorrow and be sad for [Aldarion], but he doesn’t understand ships and the sea have just never been his jam." – Alan Sisto [105:10]

9. Listener Q&A: Parallels to Fëanor

Timestamps: 122:56 – 126:37
Question: Does Aldarion’s obsession with shipbuilding parallel Fëanor’s obsession with the Silmarils?
Discussion:

• Both driven by creative ambition, both selfish and resistant to counsel or restriction, both have obsessions that damage those around them.
• Fëanor’s choices bring catastrophic results quickly; Aldarion’s damage builds slowly, echoing down generations—especially to daughter Ancalimë.
• Both exhibit "a strong core of selfishness" and have consequences that outlast their own lives.

Notable Moments & Quotes

• "Love is not pie." – Sara Brown [19:03]
• "You take your grace for granted." – Meneldur [116:00]
• "Silence can rip those wounds wide open with far more efficacy and cause plenty of new ones." – Alan Sisto [86:12]
• "If you want to be a sailor, be a sailor. Tell her it isn’t going to work and go." – Sara Brown [90:50]
• "That is toddler-level stuff." – Alan Sisto [111:01]
• "These words of Erendis resonate down the centuries." – Sara Brown [54:32]
• "He’s not hoarding it. She’s not locking away and putting out of use the land that is that gift." – Sara Brown [56:44]

Episode Summary & Takeaways

• The hosts provide a sensitive, sometimes scathing but always thoughtful analysis of the complicated relationships at the heart of "Aldarion and Erendis."
• Themes explored include: the burdens of generational expectation, the double-edged sword of passion, the necessity of partnership and balance in relationships, and the tragic consequences of poor communication.
• Alan and Sara repeatedly invite listeners to reflect on Tolkien’s own experiences and possible intentions, making connections to other works, and drawing out universal truths from Middle-earth.

For Next Time

The hosts tease the upcoming "wedding of the century" and further relationship breakdowns, promising even more nuance, puns, and Tolkienian drama.

Navigation Quick Reference

• Listener Segment (“Tom”/North Wing): 04:02 – 09:06
• Parental Advice/Generational Drama: 12:35 – 26:59
• Reconciliation/Betrothal: 29:36 – 36:32
• Thematic Debate (Gifts/Love): 38:48 – 55:40
• Sea-Longing & Withdrawal: 77:57 – 88:25
• Father–Son Showdown: 88:25 – 122:56
• Listener Q&A (Fëanor Parallels): 122:56 – 126:37

Note: All ad reads, intros, and outros skipped for summary.
Hosts’ Tone: Scholarly, witty, accessible, and empathetic—true Tolkien pub chat!