← The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
644. "I’m seeing an increase in followers and engagement, but they are not converting into sales- help!" | Coaching Session
00:56:01
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- [00:00]
A
And when we first started and we had the sexy names, that didn't prevent anybody from buying from us, any families or anything like that. It was just, we got that huge push from an influencer and then it just died down.
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B
Hi, I'm Jaclyn Snyder and this is the Product Boss Podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours, whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into a successful business? And what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams, no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey, hey, product bosses. And welcome back to the Product Boss Podcast. I'm so excited you're here. And can I just say thank you, thank you to all of you out there that have followed the show. You just hit that follow button. You're getting two episodes a week delivered to wherever you listen to podcasts. And a really huge, huge, huge, heartfelt thank you to those of you who have left a review. Leaving a review on the podcast just lets me and the team know that we are on the right track on how we're really supporting you every week with two shows a week. And it just really lights me up to let me know that this has been really helpful for you. So thank you, thank you, thank you. If you haven't left a review yet, do leave me a little holiday treat and leave a review for the Product Boss podcast. All right, thank you, thank you, thank you. Now let's jump into today. Today I'm going to be chatting with Natalie. Now, she's the owner of Cookie Nookie, and she bakes and sells homemade delicious treats, including cookies, a Chex Mix mix, and Rice Krispie treats. Now, Natalie and her husband started Cookie Nookie together as a family business and they really started to take off after an influencer started talking about them. Now, in the past few months, Natalie's been seeing growth in her followers engagement and an increase in traction on her website and on social media. But even though she's seeing the numbers there, none of it seems to be converting sales. Does this sound familiar to anyone out there? Now? The only way that they're really seeing success in sales right now is from in person events and they started to do those a lot this year because their online sales aren't really taking off the way they want them to and they're not exactly sure why. So if you're feeling the same way or you're like, yes, this feels like me, or maybe you are still figuring things out, you're in the right place in this episode, take a listen because there's always a gem or a nugget that's going to jump out at you and feel like I'm talking directly to you. And so we're going to also help Natalie figure this, this out. So if you want, grab a pen and a piece of paper and let's dive in. Hey product boss, let me ask you a question. Have you ever felt like you're struggling and spinning your wheels trying to grow your business online? I know, I know it could be so frustrating. I went through it with my own product based business and I know that you're dealing with so much like managing inventory to shipping, to making all your products, to creating, to marketing all the things. Right. I know you're wearing all the hats and you're worried about so many different things. And I need to tell you something. Your website doesn't need to be another thing to worry about. So that's where Shopify comes in. Now listen, Shopify isn't just a website builder. When I started my business back in the day, I mean there were just website builders. No, Shopify is amazing. I wish I had it. It's our go to and number one e commerce platform built to make running your product based business even easier. So whether you're selling handmade jewelry, organic skincare, delicious treats, you might be a manufacturer, you might. It doesn't matter what you're doing because this is the deal. Shopify is going to give you the tools to showcase your products beautifully, to manage inventory seamlessly, and to connect with your customers around the world. Because listen, customers need a good experience, right? It's all about the user experience. And that's why I'm so obsessed with Shopify, because you don't need the tech skills required to create this amazing seamless customer experience. So with features like automatic payment processing and one click checkout, Shopify will actually help you focus on scaling your business and not Having to worry about all the techie things that come with building a site and a site that converts really well. So, my friend, if you're ready to make selling your products online easier, you can grab your free trial of Shopify today at the product boss.com shopify. That's the product boss.com shopify. Now let's jump into the show. So things that you want to talk about are how to get more people to find you and you want to know more and to know more about you and how to convert the followers and engagement into sales. Making a lot of money.
- [04:59]
A
Well, we're called Cookie Nookie, so.
- [05:01]
B
Well, okay, so I'm glad you brought that in. Okay, perfect. Here's why.
- [05:05]
A
To change my name, please.
- [05:06]
B
No, I like your name. I think you should lean into this sexy part more.
- [05:10]
A
Really?
- [05:11]
B
Yeah. Okay. So. Because there's something about Cookie Nookie that you're like, oh, there's something like there. It's sexual, right? We're saying nookie. So this is cool. But I think you could probably build in. Like, is a little bit different than her as your character. Like, the Eminem's girl is sort of what she reminds me of. So there could still be a little bit more of bringing the nookie word in and like, and like, playing with it. My question to you is, like, do you get sexy in the naming of your cookies? You know what I'm saying? Like, could you. I don't know where you want to go with this. And we can. We can take it. But, like, right now we're taking, like, the name of Cookie Nookie. We're almost ignoring the fact that you've named your company that so you could lean in if you wanted to lean in. So I guess I want to know from you what, how do you feel about that?
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A
That's how we started.
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B
Okay.
- [05:55]
A
We have. We had sexy names for everything. Like our signature cookie. Cookie is a toffee chocolate chip. We called it Tickle Me Toffee. We had a. Yeah, we had a bunch of names. Like the Afternoon Delight was our Ferrero Rocher Brownie. That was probably when I first joined MSN. And then I had, like 20 different kinds of cookies, and they all had sassy names and everything. But it became. When, you know, going to our bestsellers, like, we started doing the variety boxes, and the variety boxes became our best sellers. And then it was just like, do we still keep, you know, the sexy names when it's a variety box of treats. Right. And so it's just Been trying to figure out how to work it in, because I would love to, but then also how to marry it with our story, right? Which is the IVF and infertility and stuff. And then our, like, place right now in the market scene is, you know, we give free cookies to kids 10 and under, right? So that, like, brings a lot of families and stuff in. And they know our name is Cookie Nookie. We don't hide that. You know, we don't pretend to be anything we're not, but it's just, like, how to bring that all together. And when. When we first started and we had the sexy names, that didn't prevent anybody from buying from us, any families or anything like that. It was just. We got that huge push from an influencer, and then it just died down.
- [07:12]
B
So sorry to Nerf, but, like, I'm just thinking, because from a marketer's brain, I was just at an event with Ryan Reynolds as, like, the keynote speaker, and he was talking about how he's got a marketing company. And I don't know if you remember the ad. It was around 2020, and Peloton had done an ad where a husband bought a peloton for his wife. Like, and. And the whole world lit on fire because they're like, oh, my God. You insinuating. She's fight. She's fat, and she needs to work out. Like, that was like the. Like, everyone was like, oh, my God. And Peloton got so much backlash. But then Ryan's company, very quickly, he went. He's like, can we. Hi. Can we hire that actress? They hired the same actress. And then he did an ad with his aviation gin where her and her friends are sitting around drinking alcohol, and her. One of her friends is like, you're perfect. You're perfect just the way you are. So Peloton loved the ad because it kind of loosened the feeling on that aviation gin. Got this awareness about the company, or they were like, you're fine, girl. Like, you're fine the way you are. It played on two marketing campaigns that were happening. And so there could also be like. And I. I know Wilson's there, but, like, it could also be something along the lines, like, the kind of NICU you actually want to have, right? Like, you could do, like, a whole. What do you say?
- [08:18]
A
He said, I'm offended.
- [08:19]
B
You should be, because women are like, can I just eat cookies and watch tv? But, like, you could do, like, that's what I want you to find. So, yes, you guys, you have the story of IVF and the family story, and that's fine and that can be a part of it. But I think that. And I could coach you a totally different way, but I think just going off the name of the company, there's something so interesting about it that, like, we could try and dive into that a bit more versus just trying to be a cookie company.
- [08:46]
A
I would love that.
- [08:47]
B
Okay. And you can still sell regular cookies, but it's like finding the thing that people think are funny. So, like, think about your stuff as a gift box. Like, I don't know, it could even be a postpartum gift box that, like, women send their girlfriends. It's like, now you don't have to. You know, someone I know just had a baby and she went in for her. I think it was her six weeks, but she went in five weeks early and the doctor approved her that she was approved for nookie, but her doctor said, you don't have to tell your husband, though. If you want to tell him that it's like 12 weeks, you can go back. He's like, but imagine if you did a. Like, now you don't have, like, the cooking. Like, now you don't have to, you know, have nookie, but have your cookies, like, postpartum box. I don't know, I'm just like, randomly, like, throwing thoughts. So, like, a woman would think, oh, my God, I love. They might love your whole shtick and the humor behind it. And so, like, you can think of gift boxes that make sense. Like, people would send gifts to people at times that they're not even thinking they would ever send a cookie, like, cookies for or, I don't know, post divorce box or a just like a breakup box. Right. Like, there's so many different ways that you could play with that from a female perspective. And I say that because your stuff is pink. So. And women are the. The buyers, like, of in the family and even mothers buying cookies for their kids. Right. So it's not. But there's just like, you could go deep in that way and get into really fun marketing campaigns that would. It doesn't matter. The. Like, then it doesn't matter what you're selling. Like, yes, you're selling a cookie and they're delicious, but they're buying it for more than the cookie.
- [10:16]
A
Mm.
- [10:17]
B
And they're buying. Now they're buying boxes. Like, we want them to buy a dozen. We don't want them to buy a cookie. We want them to send stuff. Does that make sense?
- [10:23]
A
Right. So how would. So would we still Do a monthly variety box? Or are you saying we should offer different variety boxes?
- [10:31]
B
No, you could. So what if your version was like, the female perspective? Because you know what, what women will share and send. They'll. They will share and send. Better than sex, right? Like, better than sex. Yes, it's better than my sex. Right? That's something. Like, my girlfriend would probably send me something that was like a total prefer this than that. And that's how you go viral. That's how you hook on to customers. It doesn't mean like forever and ever and ever, but that's how you create a brand. And what you are so much closer. Like, your website is gorgeous and it's fun, but you could lean into that if you wanted to lean into that. So what do you think about where I was going with all that?
- [11:08]
A
I mean, I. I would love that. I'm not sure how. I'm not sure how to do it. I mean, and then like, our Instagram, would that completely change how it looks now? And it's like, fun and very pink, but yeah, it has nothing to do with nookie, really.
- [11:24]
B
Well, you got always in the mood for these treats, but you are. Yeah. You've built in the infertility and the family stuff.
- [11:30]
A
So I think, I mean, we've pivoted so many times. One more pivot isn't going to like.
- [11:35]
B
Your graphics and stuff like that are. I guess it just depends on. Because you. You've built in your son a lot into it. So you can think about this, but it could be family, like a family cook company. And we can go that way or you can go in like a. In a more specific branded direction. The same way that, like, you know, I was just sharing that some people have done. You know, I want to go the.
- [11:57]
A
Direction that will work.
- [12:00]
B
You know, anything could work. It's like, what. What do you feel called towards? Like, what do you feel like is working well right now? If your social media is growing and things like that, what is performing well?
- [12:09]
A
So my social media manager says anything that has me and. Or my son.
- [12:15]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [12:16]
A
Even our posts and stuff are getting more engagement than they did before.
- [12:20]
B
Okay.
- [12:22]
A
And. And so that's exciting. Our reels. I mean, granted, you know, we're not going crazy viral or anything, but I mean, I'm getting a couple thousand views, you know, for the reels with me and. Or my son, for the most part, so. And I know that part of it is also me. She, you know, has all these really great ideas for creative reels and stuff. Trending reels. But because of all markets we're doing, I have a lot. I don't have a lot of time, right. To shoot all of that. So she's just using whatever we have, and so that's how she's incorporating. So it could be more creative. That's due to my lack of time. I. I do love what she's done with Cam. I mean, she. These are just, like, pictures of him that she has made, like, incorporated into our treats. And I think it's really great. But, I mean, we aren't. It's not converting to sales, really, so I don't know. That's why I'm here telling you what to do.
- [13:18]
B
A lot of it's excavating to kind of figure out where to go. But I think that. I think the differentiator here is like, yes, you can be a family that has a cookie company, and of course, your son is, like, adorable and can sell it, you know, and it's going to get better engagement. But I think where I'm going with you is, like, how do we make a unique and memorable brand? Right. Like, because you're going into the cookie market, which has actually become competitive. Cupcakes were the thing, and then cookies became the thing. We have to think about, like, what. What's a differentiator? So is it your unique flavors they want? They'll always love the chocolate chip cookie, but they're looking for the uniqueness in flavor.
- [13:55]
A
And that's what we're trying to do with our variety boxes, especially because I'm. I'm trying to elevate cookie nookie, definitely from where we were. Right. That's why we rebranded and everything. So, like, our treat of the month this month is a maple bacon chocolate chip. Right. So that's not something you're going to go to Walmart and find. Right. That's not something. So I'm trying to do that with our boxes as well. Maybe not to the extent, but definitely more unique flavors. That's my goal. Like, we do a lot of brown butter. We do, you know, just. I just keep trying to bring in different flavors. And our variety boxes used to be just like, cookies or mostly cookies and maybe a brownie, and now it's cookies, a Rice Krispie treat, and then maybe a cookie bar or brownie or something. So it's like a treat box, really.
- [14:40]
B
So ways you can do this is, like, instead of, you know, we don't have to get so explicit with it, but you could celebrate, let's say, like, indulgence and you could lean into like the female indulgence. So this idea is like cookies is like a pleasure or like a guilt free pleasure that women can enjoy without judgment, right? So it's still like self care and the importance of taking time for oneself, right? So it's like it's playing with like the concept of like the cookie being the thing that like maybe there's this idea of like putting on a silk robe and like, you know, imagine you putting on a, you're like you do a whole reel of you putting on a silk robe and you've got the eye mask and you're, you look like you're like, you know, you've got the lipstick on and everything's pink and like maybe you get these really cute pink slippers on and you're going to, you know, you get. And then like, but then you sit down with your box of cookies, you know, like you can play in like a very tasteful way and have like innuendo in it, but it's subtle and it's about indulgence. Like it's still about pleasure, but it's through the cookies. Like the only nookie you need tonight, right? Or satisfaction guaranteed, right? Or girls night packages. You could do, you could do collabs with like female brands. So this is where you could do if you get into this world. Like you could get into collabs with people who make pajama companies or female books, like, you know, female authored books or wellness brands. Like there's all these other ways that you can do it, but it's all about like hot like body positivity and like female positivity and like self love and indulgence which I think is what you're trying to get out there. So you can have like flavors that are name things like you were saying, like like sensual flavors. Like it can, it's the innuendo. But like you said, kids could still do it. Kids could still see commercial and it's not. So it's like like a Midnight desired dark chocolate or something, you know, because for example, you could do a collab. Like let's say you got a really good flavored cookie. You could even do a collab with like a candle company and they could mix the scent of your cookie into the candle and then it's this collab between cookie Nikki X Candle Company. Your cookie boxes could come with love notes where like it's a love note to her. So it's like self love, you know, treating yourself like self care self love there's all this stuff about, like, withholding and keeping things away from you, but this. All this who. Whole thing could be like, self love, self care. So it's a little bit of, like, female empowerment with humor, and it doesn't have to be.
- [16:53]
A
That could tie in with the IVF and. And all of that.
- [16:57]
B
Yeah.
- [16:57]
A
It wouldn't be too far stretched, but it's such a big part of our story. It's why we started Cookie Nikki. And we're kind of in a holding pattern, hoping that we can do another round of ivf, you know, and. And hoping that we can make enough money to give the grants and stuff.
- [17:12]
B
So what if the outside of your box. What if your box. You have, like, this beautiful box, and it said, I did it all for the nookie, but nookie was crossed out and it was Cookie. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's just so many playful things that you could play with on. On your company right now, where I think. I think with your question of, like, how do we sell more? Well, we have to find the differentiator. You have differentiated it by already coming up with that name. So next it's like, can we tweak it and tweak it and tweak it into something that. Yes. The flavors of the cookies. Yes. How delicious they are. I think you're. I don't think there's a lot of changes necessarily to your website, but we have to just have people think about your cookies when they need to buy something for somebody.
- [17:51]
A
Agreed. So that means less cam and more me with innuendo.
- [17:57]
B
Yeah. It could be you, or it could just. It could just be graphics. That's why with the Product Boss, we came up with a font and color palette that you don't see us change it very often. So, like, if you're following me on social, you probably know it's a product boss boss post without knowing it's a product boss post. You know, if it's not my face or if it's not, like, something funny, these are very specific. So I think for your. For yours, I think that your graphics are cute, like, always in the mood, you know, and so. And you're already creating all these graphics, but maybe if they were just like, pink boxes with quotes on it, kind of like, you know, like funny things that people are saying. Like, that would be one way that people would start to save and share, and that just starts to hone in on the brand identity. That's the thing that gets people, like. Like to stop and see what are you even talking about. And that's your attract content. Okay, so Aunt Flo, I just interviewed her when I was in Boston. She has this huge. Claire created this company and she basically creates, she's like made by menstruators for menstruators. So she basically creates, you know, feminine products but she sells them to bigger companies so like schools, department stores, malls, like places like that. So they can provide it for free to the people using their bathroom. She's like, toilet paper is free. So should these instead of needing a quarter to get into a machine. But what's interesting. So how did this, this woman at 17 get into a market that is owned by massive, massive, massive brands? Well, she's like, she didn't, she didn't start with like all the beautiful branding and all that. Right. She standed. She started with the concept and the concept was this stuff should be free for women to use in schools and all the places and it should be organic and all that. She came later into the design of it all. But she calls this, she uses coral. Like coral is her color. So when I met her and interviewed her, she. And she, she wears this red color. She wears a suit. She has it on her lips. She's just, it's kind of like Sarah Blakely, like with her backpack. It's. You identify her and she's full on in the brand. But if we look at her stuff, you can, if even if we weren't didn't know who we were looking at. As you're looking at it, you're like, you can identify the color and the font that if it popped up, you know, it's part of like the Aunt Flo brand. So for your stuff, I think you both have done a really good job on the pink and the rebrand and the like the graphics and the icons and all that. And you can go one of two ways. You can leave, lean into nookie the way I'm talking about leaning into nookie. Or it could be kind of the other side of what you're doing here is like making it really, really fun. But either way, I don't know if the fertility part should be as. Because you're going to bring people in for fertility, but they might not be your ideal customer.
- [20:24]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [20:25]
B
So I don't know if the fertility part is as it starts to get confusing between like Cookie Co. And Aunt Flo or something like that, you know.
- [20:34]
A
So then what do we do? We just do the grants and stuff on the DL like because I mean that's our mission. But I do understand what you're saying. I wondered about that.
- [20:43]
B
It's not that you can't bring it in, it's just that you're saying like your purchases help with X and it could be less all the time. Because if things like this do, if they do really well, I mean, it's just disconnected from the cookie part. And while they, they may want to give back and I know that's your mission, people still want to just buy some. A cookie.
- [21:02]
A
Right. And that's what we want too. We want them to buy cookies.
- [21:04]
B
Right. So you have to make a decision. Do you want to be like the family cookie company without being in such a competitive market?
- [21:11]
A
So then if we lean, I mean, I, I do. Like that's how we started was leaning into the sexy. Just I didn't have the team that I have now. But then like, do we consider this world and then the market world separate? Because in the markets we're very much husband and wife doing this together, you know, and we give out free treats to kids 10 and under. Right, Right. So. And that brings people in and then they buy. That's why we do really well in the market markets. Now do we stop that?
- [21:45]
B
Yes and no. I mean, yes, they are different customers because one is just foot traffic. So you happen to just be like a cookie company at a market and people are like, oh, I want to have a cookie or I'll go buy it. Right. And then there's this idea of building a brand. So to go back to what do you post or like, how do you grow it and what's the difference? Well, I think you just come up to the point that they should probably be the same feeling, but maybe you go into self, like, like self love, self indulgence. Like you want the moms to laugh. That's what you want. You want moms to get it. If you can find your shtick, if you can find the thing that like your ideal customer would think was funny. Because I think you're funny. I don't think this is like a serious, serious brand. Even if it's family oriented or something like that. There's other ones that we'll send each other, like my husband and I will send each other that are like about kids driving us nuts, you know. So I think it just needs to be like you need to kind of decide what is the thing that your ideal customer is going to find funny on social media and that's different than what you're going to do in real life. In a lot of ways. So I know that my customers really like when I show how hard it is to be a business owner. You know, they want empowering words, things that make them feel like, okay, you got this girl. And then they also like, yeah, like, business feels like nuts sometimes. And they. And they love those too. And so because I know that kind of content, I can create it. Whether I'm creating it myself, I can create it in a graphic. I can create it by remixing a reel. And that's what we have have to think about with yours, is that we want to cast this really wide net and start to attract a specific kind of person that's going to get your humor and your brand and your cookies. They're going to buy the cookies because they relate so much to you and like the humor around it or the theme around it. Do you see where Natalie is getting stuck? She has yet to figure out the differentiator in her cookie business that's going to resonate with her customers while setting her apart from other cookie businesses. Now, she's not alone in this at all. I know you've heard me talk about this a lot, lot on different coaching calls, or maybe you're in one of my programs like the Product Boss Academy or Multi Stream Machine. And as you're hearing me talk to Natalie about this, in her case, she could lean into the sexy yet fun theme when it comes to naming her cookies and weaving it into her messaging to create a brand that not only incorporates humor, but also portrays indulgence. Right? I mean, the company is called Cookie Nookie. Now, I always say that you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You just need to redesign it to be successful. And a lot of that comes from figuring out what sets your brand apart from your competition. Now, when you know your differentiator and incorporate that into your branding, messaging, and packaging, you're no longer just selling your product or your cookies, but rather you're selling the experience, you're selling the brand. You're selling the feeling that people get out of this. And that's what you need to do to get your customers to think about your company more. Right? It's more than just your product, products. It's your brand. Now, while I'm talking to Natalie about this idea and her husband's right there in the background listening, this concept may or may not resonate with her, right? The sexy yet fun might not actually be the thing that she moves to, but at least it's a. It's a differentiator. At least it's an example of what she can do in her business as thinking, okay, I could go this way or I can go that way, but it's something that you could. It's a little bit more tangible as a brand. And honestly, this is the thing that I've seen and I've been working on with my students, and that's why we've been coming out with new programs this entire year, is because truthfully, while everyone comes out with products, right, I'm trying to help everyone figure out sellable products. And the sellable product is something that there's like a brand built around it. And I know it's hard, especially if you're at home and you're knitting or sewing or pouring candles or baking cookies, or maybe you are manufacturing. And talking to you about a brand feels much bigger than your brain sometimes can even probably wrap itself around. I know when I started my product business, I wasn't thinking like brand, but I was thinking why? Why would my customers want to buy what I had to sell? And could they think about my product first when thinking about the solution to their problem or the need, the want, the desire, Right. And so the brand part of it, the branding it, the building of that really is going to help you more than anything get really clear on the why. And once you nail this, it makes it easier to market and sell. So I hope you're hearing different ways that I talk about this in these coaching calls, because this is a big part that I feel like is missing to differentiate you in the market. So this is just another example. So I hope this is making sense. So now we're going to dive a little bit deeper into her social media as that seems to be working for her right now. Well, let's just, let's like figure it out. So you want to, you want to know how to get customers to find you, right. And know more about you. So is your goal that you want to sell online, like more direct to consumer?
- [26:26]
A
Yeah.
- [26:26]
B
Yes. So we need to figure out how to find them. So your three ways are paid, organic, or partnership. So paid is that you start to run some sort of ad, which you can do. I don't know if you should do, but you could do. You could run Google Ads, for example, and that's like a local, you could do local targeted ads if you want to just run it to people who are local to you to be able to buy from you. Organic is social. If you want to do social or another option for you is like you sponsor local school Events like schools have Halloween parties or Halloween fairs or back to school things. There's this one back to school night that like this one dentist that gets everyone all the kids for their braces. She always does a booth there and does a spinny wheel and like gives out information to the parents. But then people find her there too. So think about where your ideal customer is outside of just these markets and these farmers markets for you to even just establish yourself locally. We don't have to get national yet. You could try and become local. We want people to default to you. So organic could be social for greater reach. Or it could be local types of marketing events. And then partnership would be stuff where you could also go to restaurants, coffee shops and supply wholesale your cookies with like a little sign that says like cookies by cookie nookie. Have you tried that yet?
- [27:38]
A
I did, sort of. I reached out to, well, my. A past virtual assistant. I gave her a list of coffee shops, you know, just like what you said and asked her to reach out. And I heard back from like two people who and that what they were.
- [27:51]
B
Saying, no, I would rather you two because there's two of you, like roll in with some sample cookie boxes. Like go go to coffee shops, ask if the manager's there. Hey, I'm a local cookie company. Here's some of our bestselling flavors. Not sure if you're looking for a new baker for cookies or anything like that or any sort of like collabs. We can do like if you ever do like support local, if there could ever be a popup that you do in there. Right. So get creative. And it's not going to be the va it's I want you to just think local to start think in your area and then expand and expand and expand from there. So just thinking through different places you can go to and say I've got these cookies. I supported someone in her cookie company where she went to the like the high end car dealership and they were buying two dozen cookies a week from her to supply to have at the car dealership for just their customers to eat.
- [28:38]
A
And that helped.
- [28:39]
B
She was making so much money, she grew her business to like 250,000 selling cookies that she originally started selling them at a dollar in Arkansas and then she was starting to sell them for $3 to $3.50 sense.
- [28:48]
A
Yeah, I mean that is why we're doing the markets is for people to get to know that we exist. Because a lot of bakeries, right. Start out that way, right. To for people to know them Locally and then. And then beyond. So that's why we're doing the markets. And then I'm part of a charity organization, Women of Wine charities. And these are women with money as well. And like, you know, I donate treats to the events. We have one coming up mid October, and so far it hasn't. Like, people now know me at the events as the cookie lady, but so far it hasn't brought in any business. But their big event is in October and I'm doing some cookies for that. So, I mean, it's like a long game, right? So.
- [29:27]
B
But the thing, the thing is, is that it's your job to connect the dots as to why they should buy your cookies. So that's why I was trying to come up with that idea of like the postpartum box or some sort of creative box or someone that I know. He did really well on Amazon because he made a mother's. It wasn't food, so I'll just say that. But he was like, I'm going to make a Mother's Day box for people who don't live anywhere near there. Their. Their moms, they could go on Amazon, buy this really cute Mother's Day box that's like a gift set for her. They can mail it from Amazon and it solves a solution. It's a solution to a problem. So I think what's happening is that you're doing things the way that are somewhat obvious for the cookie company. Right. Like, I'm going to go do it local, I'm going to go to the markets and all that, but we need to find the differentiator for you. So whether it's in brand or knowing, yes, you could do these events and give things away for free, but we need to create reason. They're going to buy dozens and dozens of cookies from you at a time, because they're not going to just buy. I had like one. I. There was this one company I ran into in Seattle at one of the Seattle markets. They sold cookies, but they came in these. It was all inspired by tattoos, like the jars. So it had this, like, alternative look to the packaging. It came in this beautiful packaging and just had cookies stacked in there. And so that was something I could easily buy and gift to someone because it was. It was the packaging more than the cookie inside. I was like, I'm gonna buy someone cookies for a gift. But it was like this really cool packaging that went with it. So I'm just trying to share with you that like, like, yes, we can be a part of all these things. But, yeah, they're going to get cookies. They're going to try them. Oh, cookie nookie. But they're not necessarily going to. They're going to have to have a reason to think, like, when would I buy from you? But if you had, you know, these Christmas gift boxes or, I don't know, like, the same way that this person can sell $150 packs of cookies, it was because they were looking for a luxury gift to send to people. That just felt like luxury. Right. That's why I'll buy sprinkles. Like the sprinkles cupcakes. I think they're like $90. But you can get. Like, when I had a baby, it was like, it's a boy. And I got like this beautiful boxes of sprinkles cup mailed to me that said it's a boy. Because even though they were just cupcakes, they felt so elevated. And that's where I think your next section of what you're doing, you're already on your way there. It's like elevating the why someone's gonna buy a cookie. And it's more than a cookie.
- [31:32]
A
Right?
- [31:32]
B
And once you figure these parts out, that's how followers turn into sales. That's how people start to talk about you and share it. Because we need you to. Your company needs to be more than a cookie. It needs to be more than, like, the. The more you're more than the cookie lady. Because we need them to know why they're going to buy cookies and how they're going to use cookies in their life. And I say that because we can buy them to eat them. And the people who are seeing you at markets are buying them to eat them, but we need them to think, why would I buy cookies more often? Well, what if you were the place that I always bought my gifts for and like, you were sending them out for me or. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [32:08]
A
Kind of sounds like we have to make some changes at the market. Markets.
- [32:12]
B
It's not the markets. It's not the markets. It's because you've got the markets handled. It's the online we wanted those people.
- [32:18]
A
To be to come back.
- [32:20]
B
Yes, but the market, like you said, the market people are the market people's word of mouth. So if we can get them to understand, if you can start to present the brand in a different way than more than just like, come try cookies and just buy some cookies. And we can think of it as like, A giftable product, that's one way to think about it. But really the more so of your question was how do I get people to discover me online? So really if your social media can get more specifically branded and have more of an angle and a shtick, that's the thing that starts to get shared. And so people start to discover you because other people are sharing content. That's the point of social media. And if we can get them to hook on and you're posting more images like of cookies, cookies being pulled apart like broken. So when you think about them following you on social right now we need them to want, we need them to want to follow you. We need them to like be looking for your stuff. So that's why when you're humor or like watching behind the scenes, that's getting them to engage with the content and keeping you top of mind. And then they're gonna, you know this like brands that you see all the time, eventually you'll buy from them. But just posting a cookie isn't going to make them buy from you. They need to buy into you.
- [33:21]
A
Right. I guess I always thought our mission was, that was what made us stand, what set us apart from the others, you know, the IVF and all of that and the trying to do the grants and stuff.
- [33:31]
B
But people are never going to, their people are going to always buy for themselves, right? And so the mission is going to make them feel better about buying from you, but it's not going to be why they buy from you. Because you're not a char, right. You know, they're not doing donations like you're not, you know, it's not like Santa Claus looking for money for like outside the, you know, department store. Like they need to want to buy your cookie and then when they buy it they're feeling better about themselves because that they know a portion of their money goes to something else. But it's not. Humans are self centered and so they're always going to want to know what's in it for me. That's how we have to speak to our customers. Like what's in it for me? Not you guys, but your customers. So maybe it's that flip for you and your mindset of okay, like this is our mission and our charity and our grants. But in fact it's just, that's the thing that like helps the buyer's remorse. And buyer's remorse happens with anything. Someone buys a car, someone buys a piece of jewelry, someone goes to home goods and spends too much money. Right. But the thing that's going to help with the buyer's remorse is like. Or even eating the cookies and having the calories, let's say they like. But, but I'm helping, you know, but I'm helping someone because I did this. And that's the part that is like the cherry on top to you having a mission behind your business. Business.
- [34:40]
A
Okay, so it sounds like I'm taking, pretty much taking out the, the IVF and fertility posts from my page.
- [34:48]
B
Less of them. And maybe you guys do like a once a month situation where like did you know that our story is this like the other thing is you can share your story, but your story doesn't have to be a weekly share. Maybe it's every third week or fourth week to get them again.
- [35:01]
A
But then it would be more like what you, it sounds like what you're saying is more as it relates to us, not in the. Because the way that we've been doing it is very much like educational or like to be support. So it'd be more as it relates to us personally.
- [35:14]
B
Probably. Yeah. Because then you're pulling in the wrong customer. Yeah, you're pulling in people who are looking for ivf, but they're not looking for cookies. They're looking for IVF community, but they're not looking for cookies. And so we're just not, we're not sure they can eat cookies. But you're not pulling, you're not doing your marketing in a targeted way.
- [35:30]
A
So is there probably going to be a period where we like lose a bunch of followers who are out there for infertility?
- [35:35]
B
No, no. But I think no and yes. I mean, sure, you could lose followers. I mean, I've lost followers for all sorts of stupid reasons. You know, like, I lose followers because maybe they post too much and they don't want to see it. So maybe. But it's. It. That's a vanity metric versus a customer metric. And I'd rather you have people that are following you for the cookies because that means they're going to buy. So if you're finding it's not converting, it's because they're not, they're not following you for the cookies. So it's, they're. They're not. What's the point?
- [35:59]
A
Right.
- [36:00]
B
So I'm not trying to like crush a dream or anything about like the fertility. It's just switching your mindset around. Like, like the front lead into this is not, hey, we give back and you should buy our cookies. It's like you should buy our cookies because they're delicious and you bought into the whole shtick or whatever the fun is or the flavors or whatever. And by the way, do you know that we also. This is our journey, and we also support people also, like, on the same journey that we're on. Oh, that's awesome. You know, so then they're like, oh, yeah, I will give you my money, but it's not the why they're going to buy from you in the first place.
- [36:33]
A
Right. Okay.
- [36:35]
B
Were you able to catch where I led Natalie here? While you don't need social media to make sales for Natalie, this is what's working for her right now. So she should lean into it with a new direction. We discussed about leaning into the sexy but fun theme for her cookies. This opens up a variety of options for Natalie when it comes to what she should post on Instagram. Now, you've also heard her story about struggling with infertility, and this is something that her and her husband did along their journey and really helping discuss it and make it a conversation with other families that are also going through this. Right. So up until this point, she's been posting a lot on her social media about IVF and her journey. And while it's a beautiful, beautiful story to tell, it's probably not attracting the kind of customers that she's looking for to actually buy her cookies. Right. She's attracting a beautiful community that are looking to build this IVF community, but it may not be completely aligned with the brand of selling the cook cookies. I love it as a storyline. I love it as a why. I love it as something as, you know, you're doing this and. Right. The. Both and. But the way that I'm talking to her about it here is that we really do. We don't really want to just only build if. If she's attracting IVF people who are coming for ivf. Right. Like, they're coming and they're following along on that, trying to say this in. In the best way possible. It's kind of like I had Falcone Farms. She was on the podcast and we were talking about how her farm videos of her horses and her animals were doing really well, and people were following her for that, but they weren't following her for the soap she was creating. So if there was a way to incorporate this journey of running the farm, but this farm makes soap and there's a storyline that people could follow through on, then that makes sense. So I believe that they could still tell the story or share about their journey with IVF and building this community around it, but it's not the lead story for the brand of trying to sell cookies and treats and delicious traits. So it's going to require a bit of a mindset shift. I know that this is something that they really feel strongly about and I do too, for them especially, but it's just not drawing in the customers that they need that are also going to make sales. They're kind of two different brands, right? They're two different platforms. So that's what we really want to do, right? I want her to show up on social media and I want her to create content around her cookies, around her treats and why people should buy them. And the mission behind her brand can be woven in, but, but it shouldn't be the front facing first thing, right? Because otherwise people are coming for a different reason. So if she's able to flip her focus and highlight and share about her cookies and the making and this family business and all of the amazing deliciousness that she sells, that's how she's going to be attracting the right customers that are going to convert, right? They're going to be followers that convert to actual customers and that's truthfully what we all want, am I right? And I hope this is making sense because the thing is, my friends, is what you have to think about is people are innately self consumed, right? They're, they're always thinking about themselves, which is, okay, we're all going to think about ourselves. How is this going to make our life better, right? So while we like stories, the story has to relate back to what's in it for your customer. And that's just the marketing hat. That's the hat we have to put on as marketers when we're trying to make and sell products. And that's what we want to do here. So when you're able to do this, you're going to start to see that you're drawing in the right people, right? The right followers they're converting into customers. You're going to start to see sales, you're going to start to see your following increase and you're going to see engagement on the content you're posting, listing around what you're selling. So now what we're going to do is we're going to jump to the last topic that I'm going to chat with Natalie about, which is how she can make more at the in person markets. Because right now the main revenue channel, right, their main platform that she's selling on that is working really well for them is in person and so let's dive into that. Hey friend, I'm just going to jump in and interrupt the show for a real quick second because I want to talk about the side of your product based business that nobody loves. I know. Tracking inventory, right? Managing all the costs of what inventory you need when you need it, and trying to stay organized while you blend it all together. And if this feels like it's resonating with you, I have a solution for you. It's something I wish I had instead of literally printing out Excel sheets and trying to write it all down back in my day. Back in my day, right? So the solution for you, my friend, is Crafty Base. Crafty Base is the inventory management, bookkeeping and production software built specifically for product based business owners like you. And with Crafty Base, you can track your raw materials, components and finished products in real time so you'll never run out of stock or over order supplies again. And it even calculates your cost of goods sold automatically. Right? It monitors your expenses and it helps you keep an eye on those all important profit margins so you can grow your business. Because remember, I want you to be a profitable product boss. So if you're ready to feel organized, in control and never run out of your best selling inventory again, then head to the product boss.com crafty base and we've hooked you up to receive a 14 day free trial to try crafty base today again. That's theproductblast.com craftybase hey friends, are you unsure of what to say on social media or what to even send in your weekly emails? Well, what if creating content could be easy? Would you be looking for a shortcut to creating consistent content? Yes, consistent content. Because you know, consistency is key. Well, let me tell you, you are not alone when you feel like you're struggling on what to post or what to write in emails. And we know that you have that product part of your business down. But as you're listening to this podcast, you probably already know that to get more people to your products, to buy your products, you need to create great content. Oh, I know, I see. I keep saying content and that's the dreaded C word. And we can't tell you how many product bosses tell us that they want to create great content for their audience and their customers, but they don't know what to say. Or they are so busy they can't find the time, or they really, really, really don't want to be the face of their brand. Well, no worries, because that's exactly why we created A Year of Content. It is your shortcut to creating consistent content that resonates with your audience and brings more loyal customers who can't wait to buy your products. If you want to see how easy this is and how easy it is to create content for your audience and your customers, head to www.dayear of content.com. so what markets do you have coming up?
- [42:56]
A
I have a ton. Our customers right now that are buying are at this brewery that we go to. Okay. In this part of town where people have money and it has a playground. So it's a family friendly place. Our calendar is on our page and we go basically right now almost every week, week. So we're going on Sunday, we're going next Saturday. And then there's a two day huge market and that's. We're like prepping for that right now. And I really want to use that as a launching pad for the holiday season and everything. Thousands, like it's supposed to be like 12 to 15,000 people going through there.
- [43:36]
B
So what's your offer when you're at these markets? Do you just sell individual cookies or what's the offer?
- [43:40]
A
So we were doing one cookie for $3, three cookies for seven, and a bag of our homemade Chex mix, which is amazing, for $8. And then our homemade rice Krispie treats for $5. We already raised the rice crisp. No, we already raised the Rice Krispie treat price to 6. We're going to raise the chex mix price to 10 and fill the bag because we are getting such. People love it. People love it. And then the cookies we're going to raise to 1 for 4, 3 for $10. And then I've also gotten these boxes that I was planning on using for the market. So maybe, maybe we could have another pricing where they get the box we fill with treats. But that's what we've been doing right now. We just got all of this because we're prepping for that market like I said. So we're changing our setup. We're changing it to make it easier for larger quantities of larger amounts of people coming by.
- [44:34]
B
You could do a three, a six and a 12 pack. So. So singles are the most. Singles could be like the most expensive. Do you sell a lot of just one cookie or do people tend to buy more than one? I feel like you shouldn't even like, it could either be like, I don't even know if you should sell. You could like, so you could do. Right. A single cookie and then otherwise I think it'd be better for you to sell more than just one.
- [44:56]
A
It's occasionally like somebody will come by and just want one. But we do get. Typically get the three.
- [45:02]
B
Yeah. So I wonder.
- [45:03]
A
One dollar. You get one more. Because cookie.
- [45:05]
B
It makes a lot of sense for people to just buy in packs, especially at these like events, to go off with something versus they're. They're not going to a bakery and letting their kids. Yeah, they can pick a cookie, but like have them walk away with something. So I like the idea of you. You could do a 4, 6 and 12 pack potentially. So what I want you to think of for both of you and the money part, how. How much do you want to make per market? And so I want you to work backwards and say, okay, like if we go to market and we normally make X amount of sales. Sales. If we can instead get them to buy four packs, six packs or 12 packs. Or it could be three, six or 12, let's say. So then you'll have your base price. You know, every time someone buys from you, they're buying a three pack. That's going to cost them. How much is your three pack?
- [45:45]
A
We're going to be raising it to 10.
- [45:47]
B
So maybe it's like 9.99 or like maybe not just like the straight 10. Maybe it is 9.99.
- [45:52]
A
Will that work in a market? A 9.99.
- [45:54]
B
Do people pay you cash? They pay you on stripe.
- [45:57]
A
Most pay us on square. But there are people who, like the last time, I think every. A lot of people were cash.
- [46:04]
B
Okay, then 10 bucks. 10 bucks for a three pack. How much was your six pack?
- [46:09]
A
We've only ever offered one or three.
- [46:11]
B
Okay, I want you to do three, six, 12. Right. So because if they're at. Especially at a brewery, they might want to try your flavors. Less people might buy this. But if they have a whole bunch of kids around and stuff, they might want to buy that. A six pack is. I have. If there's two adults. Adults and two parents, they're gonna want four. So they're gonna. They should buy the six. Right. So this gets us into. So this is actually great because three will be two. People wanna buy cookies. Let's get a third and we'll try it. Sixes for a family of four, they'll probably get the six pack. And then if there's anyone more than that or like a bunch of kids or a bigger family, they might get the 12 pack or be like, I can take that home.
- [46:45]
A
Then the pricing, like if we're starting 3 for 10. Is that gonna. If someone says they just want one cookie, do we just say, sorry, we only sell them threes?
- [46:53]
B
Yeah, they can buy the Chex mix. They can buy a Rice Krispie treat.
- [46:56]
A
I'm willing to try it. But we have people who are used to us being there now.
- [47:00]
B
Or you make one cookie really expensive. So 450 for one cookie. So if they want one cookie, let's make it expensive. So it's 450 for one cookie, but we've got our three pack for 10, six or 12. Because how are you going to make more money at all these events? You got to just sell more. You have to raise your average order value.
- [47:16]
A
Right?
- [47:17]
B
And we need to solve problems for them. And so the solving problems for them is. Let me just make it really easy. They just have to. It's like bagels. They just have to pick their flavors and you put it in a box. It's like a donut shop.
- [47:28]
A
Right?
- [47:28]
B
Okay, so then looking at your events, this is how I want you to plan for your money. I want you to think if you're going to sell on average $10 per person, or like we're going to. What we want to do is we want to raise average order value. This is what you would do on your website. So when someone comes to buy, we want them to buy more than they would, hey, oh, you're getting a three pack. We can make it a six pack. And it's only five more dollars. It's the same way that it's like, would you like to supersize your fries? Right? So you want to incentivize that even the Rice Krispie treats, like, they can buy one or get three for X. Right? So you want to like constantly be telling them and you want signs for that. Because we want to raise everyone's average order value. You don't need more customers. You need them to spend more with you. So then I want you guys to work backwards and say, how much do you want to make at each of these events? And then think, what do I what, how much? Like, so let's say you want to make a thousand dollars between the two days. Days. So what I want you to guesstimate for yourself is like, all right, if we went to this market and we wanted to match last week's market, what did we sell? And you need to start looking at your stuff instead of just like willy nilly. People come up and you're hoping they're going to buy. Say, we're going to sell three packs. So now everybody that buys is going to be at a minimum spending 10 bucks with us on three packs or 10 bucks with us on Chex mix or maybe the Rice Krispie treats. But yeah, so $6 for a rice Krispie treat would be one of the more minimum ones. But maybe, maybe it's or two Rice Krispie treats for 10. Right. So I just want you to keep thinking, how do I not sell singles other than the Chex mix? Because that's like a walk around. And how does every person spend a little bit more with me? Because if they're spending three on a cookie, they can spend 10 on three cookies. Right. Like, and so you can sell the individual cookies but just make them more expensive. It's 4:50 or you can get 3 for 10. But now you can start to. You're working towards a goal. So when you're like, this is our goal, you can create the inventory for it. You're selling in offers of like these bundles or packs. And now we know like each order is going to have a minimum order of 10 bucks. So it's so much easier for you to sell to 30 people at 10 each to get to your 300. And that's where the math gets easier for sure. I think at the brewery and all these places. And people want you to solve the problem for them. Like they're already having trouble picking which one cookie they want, you know, so then make it easier for them by saying like, here's a pack. Or you could do a five pack with all five flavors.
- [49:43]
A
That kind of makes cents.
- [49:44]
B
Three pack, five pack, ten pack, two of each. But I just want you to sell more to each person. Upsells, cross sells. This is, this is how you make more money per order. Handing you a $5 bill or handing you a 10 bill. It's going to be the same customer. I like that. So that's how I would for you to make money. I would take these markets and work backwards and think, what's my offer? How do I upsell? Like, how do I make. Squeeze more money out of each customer? Customer. It's, it really comes into like a math problem at that point, because the people are there and you're selling. It's just we got to get them to spend more with you. All right, so did you catch the next step that I gave Natalie? So since selling at in person markets is working for her right now, she needs to figure out how she can increase the amount of money she's making there. Right. We want to increase her average order value and what that means and when I talk to you about this, the idea here is like, everyone always thinks, I need more customers, I need more customers. What if you had the exact same amount of customers? They just bought more from you when they were buying. Right? And how can she do this? What is the best way to do this? Well, we want to figure out her offers, and then we're going to work backwards from there to determine how she's going to reach her goals. So in Natalie's case, one of the easiest ways for her to do this is to really figure out her pricing and then offer different packs of cookies right there. Bundles their packs. We're basically getting people to buy more than one. So she can sell 3 cookies, 6 cookies, 12 cookies at special price points so that when people visit her at the market, they do buy more cookies, they do spend more with her. This is how she's going to make more money. Money at the same place with the exact same amount of customers. Now, while Natalie starts to work on everything else we discussed during this call, the quickest way, the quickest lever, the quickest thing that she can do to make more money right now is to get the customers that are already going to buy from her in person to spend more with her at the booth in that moment, right? And that's how she can immediately increase her revenue. I want you to think about this for you, my friends, right? Because the same goes for you. If something's already working for you right now while you're working on pivoting in other areas and growing, and those things are going to take a bit longer and a lot more resource from you, make it easy on yourself and figure out how you can double down on what's working. How can you make more money from what you're currently doing? Right? How do you squeeze more juice out of that lemon? And that is one way that you can do that is to increase your average order value. You can keep the exact same amount of customers. Just get them to spend more when they're already spending with you. All right, now let's wrap this up. Tell me where we can buy cookies from you and how we can follow you on social media.
- [52:09]
A
We can be followed @getcookienookie on Instagram or Cookie Nookie on Facebook. And then our website is getcookienookie.com and that you can order there.
- [52:20]
B
So good. Natalie is wonderful, and her journey is incredible. Her and her husband, it's just so I'm honored to be able to coach them, and I'm glad that I was able to work with them on thinking about their next steps forward. Now, what they do with Cookie Nookie and what angle they take with their brand is truthfully going to look like however it looks when they start to think about all the things we talked about. Right. Giving them context was just a way to kind of seed an idea to think, okay, yeah, we could go this direction or we could go a different direction. But the main theme here is that if Natalie wants to increase her sales and her conversions, she really needs to nail down her brand. Right. And her ideal customer. Because her ideal customer needs to know what cookie nookie stands for. And I do believe since she does know how to run her social media, she knows the kind of content to post. I think a little bit of a pivot on her social media can start to attract the right customers, can grow it as a cookie Instagram handle, for example. And the easiest, fastest way that she can make more money right now is to increase her average order value at her upcoming in person markets. If Natalie is able to make these adjustments that we discussed, I know she's going to start to see the conversions and the sales that she wants. I cannot wait to see what they do with cookie nookie as this beautiful family business. And if you want some cookies and you want to support them, make sure you check out their business and their Instagram in the links in the show notes. And I want you to remember, if you're seeing less sales online right now. Right, right. Then be sure to take what you learned from this episode and implement it. Because action takers are money makers. And this is exactly why I created the Product Boss Academy, for example. Right. Because I know that I can teach all of you how to make more sales and how to get on other sales channels. But the question is, is have you ideated a product that answers a why your customers want it? Right. Do you know that what you've created is what people want? We have to really think about that. And so that's why in the Product Boss Academy, which is that is the new membership that we've just created is just bonkers. And the new my new founders, by the way, yay. I'm so excited. I love the conversations that are happening in the community. I cannot wait to kick off in January with our live coaching calls every week. It's going to be absolutely incredible. But what I saw was that we need sellable products. So whether you're just starting out, whether you have an idea and you want to get started, whether you've started and things aren't feeling like they're working. I truly believe that walking you through step by step, every single module that's inside of the Product Boss Academy is the step by step plan that so many of you have been looking for. Right? Right. It's the idea whether you've started or you're coming back to this. How do we nail that idea a little bit better? How do you make this product and grow this product with the making of it? The branded section of this is so core and key and you hear me talk about it, but we can actually dig in with worksheets and templates on how you're going to really build a brand. And then we jump into. Because once those are figured out, then we jump into the marketing and the selling and the delegating and growing. Right? Because we want to market it, sell it, delegate it and grow it. And all of that is inside of this amazing, amazing membership that's just, I'm telling you, like it's, it's my life's work that has been from the last 20 years of everything I've ever done put into this. So if you're still thinking about joining, you want to join, you can still get in. We've got special founders rates, so you can head to the product boss academy.com because those of you who join before our real big official launches are going to get in at rates that you will never see again. So check it out if that's what you want. And again, thank you to all my friends that have left reviews for the product last podcast. It's so, so, so just lovely to read them all. All right, my friends, I hope you're having a great holiday season and I will see you in the next one.