← The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
645. Manifesting Your Abundant Life with Cathy Heller
00:48:13
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- [00:02]
Jaclyn Snyder
Hi, I'm Jaclyn Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into a successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams, no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Product Boss podcast. Okay, so I am so excited about this guest with you. I mean, not only is she one of the biggest podcasters out there, but I'm also so lucky to call her a friend. She's a brilliant mind, an inspiring teacher, and like I said, a dear, dear friend. I'm just, I'm just so grateful and lucky. So, Kathy Heller, welcome to the show. Kathy is an incredible podcaster, educator and author whose heart centered approach to life and business impacted millions. And through her podcast, Abundant Ever after, and her transformative program, she has helped so many people unlock their potential, align with their true purpose, and live in a way that's rich with meaning and fulfillment. And what's really exciting is Kathy is on today to talk about her latest book, Abundant Ever After. It's a beautiful extension of her wisdom and it invites readers into a life of deeper joy, connection and abundance. With her grounding in spirituality and years of study in Jewish mysticism, Kathy brings a rare depth and authenticity to the way she guides others on their journey. So, my friends, if you're ready to feel inspired, uplifted and empowered, you're in for something special today. Let's dive into this conversation with one of the most genuine, insightful and loving people I know. Kathy, welcome. It is such a joy to have you here. Hey, product boss, let me ask you a question. Have you ever felt like you're struggling and spinning your wheels trying to grow your business online? I know, I know. It can be so frustrating. I went through it with my own product based business and I Know that you're dealing with so much like managing inventory, to shipping, to making all your products, to creating, to marketing all the things, right? I know you're wearing all the hats and you're worried about so many different things. And I need to tell you something. Your website doesn't need to be another thing to worry about. So that's where Shopify comes in. Now listen, Shopify isn't just a website builder. When I started my business back in the day, I mean, there were just website builders. No, Shopify is amazing. I wish I had it. It's our go to and number one e commerce platform built to make running your product based business even easier. So whether you're selling handmade jewelry, organic skincare, delicious treats, you might be a manufacturer, you might. It doesn't matter what you're doing because this is the deal. Shopify is going to give you the tools to showcase your products beautifully, to manage inventory seamlessly and to connect with your customers around the world. Because listen, customers need a good experience, right? It's all about the user experience. And that's why I'm so obsessed with Shopify. Because you don't need the tech skills required to create this amazing seamless customer experience. So with features like automatic payment processing and one click checkout, Shopify will actually help you focus on scaling your business and not having to worry about all the techie things that come with building a site and a site that converts really well. So my friend, if you're ready to make selling your products online easier, you can grab your free trial of Shopify today@theproduct.boss.com shopify that's the product boss.com shopify now let's jump into the show. Kathy Heller, welcome to the Product Boss podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. You are such a dear friend and colleague and I just love you so much and I just cannot wait to share you with my audience.
- [04:13]
Kathy Heller
I feel like you are instantly my family and I'm totally complimenting myself because you're so stunning. It's not fair. You have like the best gene pool, like such a combo of things. But I adore you. You're one of the most humble, approachable, kind, smart, just delightful people and you are such a good teacher. You're so inspiring and you're also very granular and you like break things down and you have the cutest husband.
- [04:44]
Jaclyn Snyder
I'm just like, oh my God, I'm gonna cry. And it's not even like two seconds in such a good one.
- [04:50]
Kathy Heller
You're so good and generous. You're so generous, too. Okay.
- [04:55]
Jaclyn Snyder
Oh, my God, I love you. I love your family. I love your sister. I love your husband's. Hilarious. I mean, we're just gonna do the love back and forth. Let's do it. Which is why I'm so excited that you wrote a book, because I've resonated. I remember when I met you before we were friends, I came to your house for. I think it was a ma. It was like a mastermind, a few days. Oh, my gosh. So good. And then. And it was really getting into your abundance and manifestation and, like, being in your presence, Kathy, is like, I don't know. It's. I felt like I was close to God. And not saying that you're God, but, like, there's so much that you bring in from a spiritual perspective and, like, religious. I just think there's so many. Just different levels of you, and you see people so deeply. So I'm really excited about your new book, abundant ever after. So my question to you, my friend, is what inspired you to write Abundant ever after? And was there a pivotal moment in your life when you realize that this was the message that you wanted to share?
- [05:47]
Kathy Heller
Oh, my gosh, yes. Thank you for saying all of those really beautiful things. I receive it so beautiful, what you said. You know, I started out my podcast. It was called don't keep your day job. And it was all about helping people similar to you. Like, especially women helping people feel like they are doing the thing they're passionate about. And I would get this question all the time, like, what am I supposed to do? And we did that show for five years, and then we pivoted the title of the show to abundant ever after, because I realized that the really crucial question was not what am I supposed to do? The really crucial question was, who am I supposed to be? Because once we know what really feels like the most aligned version of ourselves, the beingness, then the doing is so easy because it's a product of the. Of who you really are. Right. And so I realized that all these people I've had now, you know, we've done the show for seven and a half years. So I've done, I don't know, 950 episodes, and everyone that we had on it was, like, uncanny that everybody had this rite of passage where they had come to really arrive at their own door. And that's what all cracked them open to being able to have whatever version of fulfillment and success that they had. And so I thought to myself, well, why don't I share what that was for me? And for me, in my early 20s, I spent three years living in Jerusalem studying Jewish mysticism. And then I moved to Los Angeles and spent three years studying meditation at ucla. And between mindfulness practice and seeing the world through a Jewish mystical lens, I walked into the world with such a different understanding and toolkit that ultimately I realized was what brought me abundance. And so I thought maybe it's time to sort of, like, go deeper into those questions and maybe offer some answers. And I'll just say one last thing, which is the very first thing I do in the book, because the book is called Abundant Ever after, is I say, so what is abundance like? Let's define that. And so chapter one, you know, I ask, like, is abundance a big bank account? Is abundance feeling like you have the yummiest towels and have a beautiful penthouse view? Is abundance writing money checks to charity? What is abundance? And then I say, is it possible that abundance is the feeling of being connected to your soul? Is abundance the feeling of inner peace? Is it possible that abundance is the feeling of the love you feel when you're totally in love with life and you feel it loving you? Is abundance feeling like you're in the creative flow, when you just are in that zone of flow state? And by the time we get to the end of paragraph three, you realize abundance is not a pile of things. Abundance is a state of being, and it's available to all of us. And so the book sort of explores what's the path to wholeness, what's the path to this feeling of being in a place where you feel equanimity, you feel at ease, you feel. Feel rich with life. And from that, can we then manifest something on a 3D level that reflects the abundance that is in our being? And that's the hypothesis, and that's the sort of whole deal with the book.
- [09:17]
Jaclyn Snyder
So good. And, you know, I think. And I. And I resonate so deeply with that because I've been working this whole year has been about manifestation and the feeling of abundance, even when you don't have. Right. So even when you think about the thing that you want, but it's. It's living as if it was already there, but more in the way, like you said, that feeling, that wholeness, that oneness, so that it's not constantly that struggle in that. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect at this at all. It's always maybe like there's a fraction of a day where I feel this But I'm like, oh, this is how it feels. Like you said, it's not a pile of stuff. It's the feeling of that. So from your personal experiences growing up, I mean, were you always like this? Did you always have these beliefs? Was it your time in Jerusalem? Like, what were those personal experiences, experiences that really shaped the core principles in the book?
- [10:01]
Kathy Heller
I love that question. I don't think anyone's ever asked me like that. I like that question. No, I mean, I certainly didn't grow up with all of these, like, beliefs and thoughts. And I wonder, I was about to say, I wish I did, but I wonder if there's something even more fulfilling about being a seeker and seeking answers and then coming to things later in your life, you know, Growing up in my house, there was just a lot of anxiety and worry. My parents got divorced. It was very stressful. We didn't have a lot of ease and peace in the house. And my mom was really depressed and she was a single mom and she was stressed out and my dad wasn't really available. And there was just a lot of just what didn't feel calm. And instead we just watched a lot of 80s TV to sort of, you know, self soothe. And as much as we love growing pains, I don't think any of these ideas were, you know, rolling off Kirk Cameron's tongue at the time. So I don't think I had these. But what I did have was I knew the questions I wanted answered because I saw. I saw two adults that were really unhappy. And I remember thinking to myself, I don't get it. So you go through all this stuff. You go through school, you go through adolescence, you go through your whole life just to grow up to be an unhappy adult. Like, that doesn't feel like it jives, like, what's the point? And so when I went to college, I was really studying, like, what's the meaning? Why are we here? I don't get it. And my. My friends were like, going to parties and sorority rush, and I'm like, wait, why are we here? And they didn't necessarily have parents who had such a volatile life as my parents. And so I really wanted real answers. And so of course, the first place I looked wasn't Judaism because that was my own backyard. I thought I knew it even though I knew nothing. I looked at Buddhism and I loved it. And I was like, oh, yoga and breathing and stillness and mindfulness. And that all of a sudden felt like an upgrade. I was like, oh, presence, wow. You know, moving into a calmer nervous system got it great. And then I was still hungry for like, I want more, I want more. And there was a trip my friends were taking to Jerusalem, and I had no interest. And my friends were like, just come on the trip, there's one more spot, blah, blah, blah. And I wound up going on the trip and I wound up extending my trip for three years. I stayed for three years. It was supposed to be three weeks. I stayed for three years. But the reason why is because on the very last day of the trip, there was a rabbi who had been a Buddhist psychologist and rabbi with like, cute scruffy beard and little like, Birkenstock sandals on. And he said that the Shabbat in the Torah means to meditate. And the very first time that it's used, Abraham is meditating. And they use that word. And Shabbat is the Sabbath. And he said, so therefore the idea of the sabbath is a 24 hour meditation. And it says when Abraham sat and meditated, God appeared. And I thought, oh, that makes sense. Because I had been spending the last few years doing yoga and learning how to meditate through my, like, you know, the lens of all the southeastern Asian religion that I loved. I thought, oh, but wait, in this stillness, you can meet the divine. Okay, so there's something even bigger than just presence. You can meet oneness. And so I wanted to know more. And I stayed and learned and stayed and learned. And it was like hitting control, alt delete on the software program that was like, in my brain before previously. And all of a sudden, I mean, my rabbi just had all these gems. Like, he, he said, you're someone because you're some of the one, and you're a masterpiece because you're a piece of the master. And if God was like the sun, every one of us is like a ray of that light. And there is only oneness. And the central prayer in Judaism, which is Shema Yisra'el, which some people have probably heard on TV shows, or there's a couple Jewish things like breaking a glass at a wedding, like, everybody knows, but the central prayer is that not just that there's one God, but that God is oneness. And that means that we're all connected to that oneness. And so if Wayne Dyer says we don't get what we want, but we do get what we are, well, we are abundance because we are literally every wave in the ocean. You can't tell where one wave ends and the other begins. And each one of us is like a wave in the one collective and every wave is the ocean itself. And so when you start to see the world that way, I mean, it's such a game changer. And you realize that each of us affects everyone else, and each of us is needed. And each of us has the power to. To sort of generate enough empathy, enough love, enough creativity that can sort of feed into the whole ecosystem, which is such a mic drop and it's such a beautiful paradigm shift. And so I knew then that I would be hooked for life, because growing up, my mom's depression, I realized that the opposite of depression, it wasn't really happiness, it was a sense of meaning and purpose. And when you feel as though you are part of something that is so much bigger than yourself, you don't feel isolated and separate. You feel connected to all that is. And then through the, through the lenses of Jewish mysticism, and then through the lenses of understanding, presence and mindfulness, I realize that there's so much abundance in every moment. And we can literally manifest and create unbelievable things through the tools that are inherently like in our most aligned selves. And just we're sort of always needing to find our way back to that. And then it's like all of a sudden the screen, you, like, swipe left and you just see a different screen in the world.
- [15:15]
Jaclyn Snyder
Yeah. You know, and I want to come back to this idea of abundance being everything, you know, something that all of us can experience and that we already are as like, because we are already part of the oneness. So. Good. But you know, I think a lot of times people struggle with this because of their ego and self sabotage. Right. That's keeping them stuck in these old patterns. Like you said, like just moving because I hear you speaking people like this sounds amazing, but. Right. So what advice do you have for someone who knows, you know, like so many of us, that they're in their own way, but they don't know how to move past that to truly hear what you're saying, Kathy.
- [15:46]
Kathy Heller
Yeah, I mean, first of all, we're all in our own way. And I am too. And you know, Rabbi Aaron said that if the. If the Joker didn't exist, exist, then Batman wouldn't be Batman. Because the hero is only the hero because there's a villain. And the real villain is always the part of us that is the shadow. Right. In each one of us. And so we all have that. And the mind is really what that's made of, because the mind is inherently. It's. It's usually spitting out a lot of fake news and negativity. Around what's possible, who we are, who we're not, what the world is. It's, it's a, the mind is a meaning making machine and, and it's constantly making meaning out of things that it's totally subjective and most of it is there to protect you because the mind loves you so much, it wants you to be safe. And so it's telling you you can't trust that person or don't even do that, you'll never succeed. It's trying to constantly protect you from being vulnerable or from what it perceives as failure. That's what the mind does. So we all have that. So I think the first thing to do is to wake up every day and know that everyone's up against that. And therefore we're going to create a more morning practice. Even if it's 90 seconds. And I say to people, don't, don't start with 20 minutes of meditation, start with 90 seconds. The same way that you select what you're going to wear today, I want you to select how you want to think and feel today. You get to choose that. You get to have a greater sense of awareness and choose what would ease feel like, what would synchronicity feel like? What would it feel like to invite, enjoy? What would it feel like to invite in authenticity? How would that change my day and feel that and then go through the rest of your day, little moments like that? Because it is uncanny just how every 18 seconds there is a self sabotaging thought. You don't even, you're not even conscious of it. It's so unconscious. But essentially I think there's also so much that we've been through as human beings. Whether we were 4 or 8 or 15, whether it was a huge event or a little event that we just never worked through that needs our attention. And so my mindfulness teacher used to say it's beautiful to have tea every morning and invite your whole self to have tea with you. The parts that are broken, the parts that are brave, the parts that need some gentle kindness. And I think we don't feel whole most of the time because there's all this pain. So then unconsciously we're looking outside of ourselves to feel whole all the time, needing more validation, more likes, more customers, when really wholeness creates wholeness. And the more that we actually ourselves make a space to integrate and to come home to ourselves and roll out the welcome mat to whatever needs to be seen, it's amazing how we then can manifest because then we're moving from A place of not being attached, to needing something outside of us to make us feel whole. We're actually coming from a place of feeling a little bit more equanimity. And then everything good can kind of come in because you're a match to it. You know, no matter what you want to grow your love life, your business, the more you're coming from your own place of feeling at peace with what is. Everything else can come in because you don't need it. You're not coming from a lack that needs something outside of you to make you feel okay and whole.
- [18:49]
Jaclyn Snyder
So good. Yeah, I agree. And then, you know, the idea of abundance or manifestation, it's more than, I mean, for I'm a visual person. So I think there's this idea of, you know, going back to the secret and making a vision board and thinking like of all the things, things you want. And those things are very much. A lot of times people put physical things on there, right? Like I want the house, I want the bracelet, I want the car, I want the kid, like those kinds of things. But I wonder if there's also. And I don't know if you have a practice for this, but when people are stepping into manifestation, how they could either visualize it or play with that a little bit in the very beginning.
- [19:20]
Kathy Heller
I, first of all, I love that. And the reason I think it's so fun and the reason I just have a lot of like gentleness around what people put on their boards is because when you really grasp what you're doing, you're putting those physical things like the yacht or the vacation, because of how it makes you feel. And that's okay, right? Because certain, like looking at a picture of Central park in the fall through a, let's say you have a picture of a hotel room view that sees Central park in fall and you can, you can almost taste what it would feel like to be in your bathrobe with a cup of coffee, standing at a gorgeous hotel, looking out at Central park in that crisp weather. It's because it's adding into your moment what that would feel like. And so sometimes we put physical things there because we want to evoke the feeling. Now what I would say is to really be mindful of that because the feeling that you think it's going to give you is available right now. It actually is. Like I've gone on week long meditation retreats now, like several years in a row, and sitting just me with my eyes closed, my butt on the floor, whether I'm in Vail Colorado On a mountain, or I'm just at some hotel ballroom with the lights off, I can get there. I can get to a place where I'm free of my mind and I'm feeling my heart open, and I'm feeling in love with what it feels like to just be enough and to feel connected to everyone I've gotten to love in this life, and to feel, feel my mind and heart open to every infinite possibility that's always available when I just finally perceive reality as it actually is, which is a total, unified, abundant field, right? And then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, my God. I. It's here. It's always here. It's always a breath away. So I would play with picking out the images that you love, whether it's a sandy beach in, like, Turks and Caicos, or it's a gorgeous new bag you want to buy. And then ask yourself, what's the feeling of this new bag? It's like, oh, if I bought that bag, it would make me feel like I'm such a badass and I'm worth a zillion bucks. It's like, close your eyes and can you find the part of you that knows that you already are and has walked through what you've walked through? And on behalf of your grandmother and her mother, who are you? And what does that part of you deserve to know about itself? And all of a sudden you'll be like, oh, my God, I already got the feeling I didn't need the bag. But when you feel whatever that vibration is, you become a match to that physical thing. And that physical thing can't miss you, because energy creates matter. And when you're energetically a match, those things just start to show up in your life. And then you'll realize you'll want to just give them away because you won't really need them, because you'll have already felt the feeling. But you might like some of them and you might keep some of them, but it's just. I can teach you a little bit. I think I've already shared this with you, and you've been in my world, so you probably heard me say this. But for your listeners, what I learned about manifestation is so fun, and I wrote about it in the book. So my rabbi, David Aaron, who's such a lovely person, he also has freckles and reddish hair, so he looks more like me than my actual father. He's so unbelievable. And when he taught me about manifestation, he never knew that the secret was a thing, or, you know, he's kind of doing his old thing in the old city of Jerusalem. He's not into pop culture, let's say. But he said, have you ever heard of the law of reception? And I said, no, I've only heard of the law of attraction. And he said, well, the law of reception is really the essence of Judaism. And I said, well, teach me about it. And he said, well, the word kabbalah likabel, the word kabbalah itself means to receive. And he said, do you know what that really means? And I'm like, no. And he said, well, if you had a radio and you put it on in the this room, what would happen? And I'm like, you would hear music. And he said, right, so where was the music before you turned on the radio? And I didn't have an answer. And he said, well, it's here. It's hidden in plain sight. But the radio is literally, we call it, on a science level, a receiver. And that receiver has the frequency to hold the tuning of the song. He said, but then if you have a radio, can't you change the dial? And I said, yeah. He's like, you could listen to hip hop music, but you could listen to a radio like a talk show. And then you could listen to, like, pop music. You could listen to whatever you want, right? I said, yeah. And he's like, so then who's controlling what you hear in the room? Is the music choosing it, or is the radio frequency choosing what it gets to hear based on where it's tuned? And he's like, that's us. So when I was growing up in South Florida, like in my old 740 gle Volvo, 1987 Volvo that was like, passed down and passed down until it got to me in 1998, in the car, I had like Y100,170, 102.7, 103.5. And then we had 97.3 and 97.9. And when Rabbi Aaron was teaching me this, I realized that 97.3 was like Celine Dion and 97.9 was like Nirvana. And I was like, wow, that's not even an entire frequency different. It's 97.3 and 97.9. It's like not even a full degree or way and so different. And then I realized, when you understand that, you offer, all of us offer every second a certain energy in a space, in a room, in a moment, we're offering a certain vibration based upon how we sort of set a mood with our own energy. Which boy can you tell like the second your husband comes in the door like he had a good day or a bad day, your kids come home from school, you can tell, you feel the energy, feel the vibe. Walk into a restaurant, you, you see a waiter, waitress, you kind of know this person's got open hearted energy, person's heavy, person's on off, the radio's on off. They're static in the radio. So we forget that we are the radio. And the more let's just say we are coming from a place that's feeling like we're loving life, life will love us back the more we're coming from a place where we're feeling like open and curious and abundant. Just being alive. Noticing the 17 shades of green outside your window. Abundance will just be flowing into your life because you are on the radio station of like it's amazing. It's so abundant. And I've had so many uncanny experiences in my life that have proven out that concept over and over again that when I changed the station in myself, what is hidden in plain sight just drops right into my life. Because it was already there. The radio already had the capacity to hear all kinds of songs. I had to change the tuning.
- [25:32]
Jaclyn Snyder
Hey. Hey friend. I'm just going to jump in and interrupt the show for a real quick second because I want to talk about the side of your product based business that nobody loves. I know. Tracking inventory, right? Managing all the costs of what inventory you need when you need it and trying to stay organized while you blend it all together. And if this feels like it's resonating with you, I have a solution for you. It's something I wish I had instead of literally printing out Excel sheets and trying to write it all down back in my day. Back in my day, right? So the solution for you, my friend, is Crafty Base. Crafty Base is the inventory management, bookkeeping and production software built specifically for product based business owners like you. And with Crafty Base you can track your raw materials, components and finished products in real time so you'll never run out of stock or over order supplies again. And it even calculates your cost of goods sold automatically, right? It monitors your expenses and it helps you keep an eye on those all important profit margins so you can grow your business. Because remember, I want you to be a profitable product boss. So if you're ready to feel organized, in control and never run out of your bestselling inventory again, then head to the product boss.com crafty base and we've hooked you up to receive a 14 day free trial to try Crafty Base today. Again, that's the product. Boss.com crafty base. Hey friends, are you unsure of what to say on social media or what to even send in your weekly emails? Well, what if creating content could be easy? Would you be looking for a shortcut to creating consistent content? Yes, consistent content. Because you know, consistency is key. Well, let me tell you, you are not alone when you feel like you're struggling on what to post or what to write in emails. And we know that you have that product part of your business down. But as you're listening to this podcast, you probably already know that to get more people to your products, to buy your products, you need to create great content. Oh, I know, I see. I keep saying content and that's the dreaded C word. And we can't tell you how many product bosses tell us that they want to create great content for their audience and their custom customers, but they don't know what to say, or they are so busy they can't find the time, or they really, really, really don't want to be the face of their brand. Well, no worries, because that's exactly why we created A Year of Content. It is your shortcut to creating consistent content that resonates with your audience and brings more loyal customers who can't wait to buy your products. If you want to see how easy this is and how easy it is to create content for your audience and your customers, head to WW A Year of Content. Do you think people block the tuning, right? Do you think they kind of get in their own way? And if they do, how they dismantle those blocks, like how they start to get there and tune in?
- [28:16]
Kathy Heller
I think they totally do. I do, you know, like, because I have this like really sort of acute, I guess, trauma from my parents divorce and the relationship that I had with all of that crisis. Crisis. There's a certain way that I have not manifested the kind of relationship I want in my marriage. Like, I know that I could be so much more open and close to my husband, but I like bury myself in work. Like, I know that I could probably have more of what I want, but there's a part of me, this like 5 year old version of me that she puts up a wall, she's like not able to receive that. It's too scary. And how many people do we know in our lives that logically know, but then they just keep being in the same state, whether it's like they're check the check to check, checkbook, like they just can't ever seem to have abundance. Or they just can't ever seem to let. Let a partner in their life. Even though they say they want to get married, but they just never go on past a second date. There are sometimes, like, in the nervous system. I'll give you what I mean, a good example for this. So during COVID and I know you and I agree on this, I'm Jewish, but I love Christmas. Like, I freaking love it.
- [29:25]
Jaclyn Snyder
Who doesn't so much? Yeah, the decor. Like, we don't win at decor.
- [29:29]
Kathy Heller
No, we don't win at decor. We really don't. Unless you're in, like, the world of fashion. There's definitely good Jews who make clothes and things like that, but no, no, no, no, no. There's, like, one little shelf that's, like, pathetic for Hanukkah. You're like, guys, get it together. So it was during COVID and I wanted to give my kids, like, this amazing Christmas experience. I was like, they have been in the house. So I called this guy who puts up lights, and I was like, clark Griswold from Christmas vacation. I'm like, I want a light on every inch of this house. My husband's looking at me. He goes, this is never going to work. And you're insane. And I keep saying, why are you such a party gooper? Like, don't be such down. He's like, you'll see. You'll see. He kept saying, you'll see. I'm like, ugh. He's just never up for it. And here we go. So the guys come, they string lights everywhere, and he. My husband just keeps looking at me, and he's like, yeah, it's not gonna work. And then they go to turn on the lights, and the. All the fuses low. And then the refrigerator's off. The computer is now off. There's no lights in the house. And he's like, what did I say? And I was like, oh, my God. So I say. I say to the Christmas light guy, he's like, I don't know. So he goes inside the garage, and he goes, you don't have enough on the breaker, you know? So my husband comes out. He goes, kath, this is what I'm trying to say. There's not enough that can hold the wattage. You go to. You could have probably done, like, half the house. You did the whole house. Then you did the blow up like Santa. Then you did this. Then he's like, we literally. You. Something's gotta give. Like, we didn't have. You would have had to call an electrician and add it to the breaker. And that's why I was saying that you didn't listen. And I'm like, oh, gosh, he's so right. But what I mean is our system, literally our nervous system, is like that breaker. And when you have not yet experienced a certain amount of joy or a certain amount of love or a certain amount of abundance, whatever it is, your system, literally, the fuses burst and your system will say, this doesn't feel safe. Which is why, like in Goodwill hunting, when Robin Williams is like, let me give you a hug. And he's like, no, stop. No. He's not yet experienced that kind of unconditional love. And it physically hurts him because his little system, as a little kid in that movie, like, growing up and to be a. An adult, he hadn't ever held that. And so he had built a wall around what he felt he could hold. And actually, when we study the brain, we see that there are neural pathways. And when you get to the end of your neuropathway, meaning you've never had this level of joy, it actually registers as vulnerability. That's what Brene Brown says. If you go beyond what you've ever experienced and received, you will all of a sudden go, oh, my God, is something bad going to happen? I've never had this much fun. Like, that's. And everyone knows that, right? That's gay Hendrix. The big leap, as soon as you go beyond what you've ever experienced in the joy realm, in the realm of receiving the brain, to try to protect you, is like, whoa, mayday. You've never done this before. You're probably going to be too vulnerable because you're too happy. And then so you pick a fight or you. And there's so much research behind this. So what we have to do is literally, those are the moments we have to actually physically tell. Or put, like, put your hand on your heart and say. Say to yourself, it is safe to receive. It is actually safe for you to be supported here. Or it's safe for people to give to you. Or it's like you. You literally have to do your own good will hunting, like, moment. And little by little, you will physically. You could see it on a brain scan. You will grow new neural pathways, new connections that tell your nervous system you're cool. It's safe for your friend. When she offers to buy dinner, you can say, that's so nice. I received that. You don't have to go, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. That's the part of you going, what would happen if I let her give to me like that? I've never just done that. I'm safer when I'm in control and when I'm not receiving so much. I mean, think about, like, the man, woman relationship, just in the anatomy, right? Like, one has to receive from the other. That takes a lot of trust, trusted vulnerability. It's actually a very courageous act of intimacy when we receive, right? And it hasn't always been safe to receive. We've as little beings, when we were a little kid, sometimes we opened our arms up to our parents and it wasn't safe. Sometimes we opened our arms up to a teacher and they criticized. So we build walls around receiving, right? For good reason or because it was modeled for us. We might have had really good experiences growing up, but maybe our parents hadn't come from that. And so they show us, like, don't be too trusting. You know, don't open up so much. Put up a wall. That's all resistance, right? And so, you know, Abraham Hicks is sort of like the quintessential, you know, version of this in our Zeitgeist today. And all she talks about is, like, where's your focus? Are you having fun? Is it feeling good? And here's the funniest part. People will come to my workshops or my retreats, and at some point, what they're really saying to me, if they listen to themselves, is, come on, Kath, isn't there something else I could do other than feeling good? Can you give me any other possible prescription rather than telling me to feel good? And then when you come, when it comes down to it, is because we've gotten addicted to feeling bad because it makes us feel safer. Like, if you're a little annoyed at your husband, you actually maybe feel a little safer in the relationship. Because if you're just fully there, maybe a part of you goes, you're gonna get taken advantage of. See, now you're doing all the work now that is constantly the tug of war, right? Between am I really going to let myself manifest and open my heart, or am I going to close off? And that's the part of us that's wanting to be in control and limits what we receive. And it's because it's actually physically very scary and vulnerable. And we don't have the quote unquote, like, energy on the breaker to sometimes hold so much. That's why we threw my sister a surprise belated birthday party yesterday. And all these people came to tell her how much she's loved and she was crying the whole time in happy tears. But she's like, I don't even know how to take this. I'm so squirmy listening to everyone. It's like, yeah. She hadn't ever practiced letting that many people, one after another tell her this doesn't matter.
- [35:25]
Jaclyn Snyder
I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast, but in 2020, we hit our first million in the business. And I come from a place of scarcity and always thinking it's going to run out. And that paycheck to paycheck mindset. I remember hitting a million dollars and I was like, I had a panic attack. I literally as at my in laws house, it was because 2020. So we were like staying up with them. So we isolated with them. And I walked out of the house into the woods and found myself crouching behind some rocks in like the mountains of Northern California, grounding myself in and having this panic attack. And I was like, this makes no sense. I finally have more money than, you know, this business has created more money than I've ever had access to. Yet my brain is freaking out. And that's exactly what happened. Right? It didn't. I did not know. My brain discovered disconnected from my body, like it did not know what to do with it.
- [36:07]
Kathy Heller
I moved into this house that you've come to, and I had a week straight of panic attacks and they were so severe that I thought I was going to check myself into a facility because I really, I wasn't. Okay. And I wound up looking at a lot of options of where to go. And in the end, I actually chose to go on a silent retreat, meditation retreat retreat, because I realized that there was a lot of wisdom that I could find just in being in the mountains and being at a collective meditation retreat with 100 people who were willing to just sit in the silence. And it was powerful. But the reason I bring it up is because exactly what you just said. You know, you and I both had our own upbringings, but there's a lot of crossover. And to the little girl who, you know, watched my mom get hit and then my dad left and we didn't have money for, you know, and I'm not trying to tell a sad story because, look, we've all had ours. And I don't claim that mine is worse or better. It just is what my experience is. But for me, having this place with like a beautiful view and like, it just feels good. It's like, oh, no, I'm gonna lose everything. Like, I can't hold it. I can't keep it up. Because there's a part of me that still believed and probably still believes on some level that I have to earn it all the time that love is. You have to earn love. Like, if you just want to be your most authentic self, love will go away. That you constantly have to prove yourself to be loved. Because when your dad leaves and you're a little kid, there's a subliminal message of, like, you must not have been enough to stay for. You must have not been worth it enough or impressive enough and all of that. And so I became, you know, impressive and an overachiever and productive and, you know, do all these things. And I was editor of my college paper, and I was like, I mean, I've just tried to get all those gold stars. And then you have all this bounty. You're like, oh, I guess you make the connection. I have that only because I'm constantly achieving. And so what if I want to stop? And it's like, wait a minute. What if love is a gift? What if the real love in your life from people who really love you unconditionally, the real genuine love is not earnable? Like, what if the real love in your life that you have, you actually didn't earn? People from the just grace of their own goodness, gave it to you unearned. You know, I think about, like, going to Jerusalem when I was 21 and I wasn't a big donor. Like, I had no money, right? And Rabbi Aaron and his wife, we met randomly through a crazy little course of events. And his wife, she's from France. She's like, why don't you just stay with us? And I'm like, with your seven children? And she's making me food. And my point is, it wasn't because they thought I was going to write them some big check, you know, like, why? Like, why did it? And that's the most abundant gift I've ever gotten. Like, it was just the most abundant gift, you know? And like. Like, you like the way we love each other. Like, that's just such an incredibly beautiful exchange for no transaction. It's not like, oh, I need something from it. It's like, I like you, and I genuinely want you to know that, and I'm here for you. What did you have to do to earn that from me? I just chose to give it. So for me, God, everyone has all the different wirings and firings of ideas so for you, it might have been different, why you had your panic attack, but for me, it was like, oh, great, now what do I have to keep doing to keep this up? And do I have to be some fault? It's like, no, Kath. Like, you got here somehow. You got here. And probably it's because there's enough good people in the world that receive the authenticity in you, and one thing led to another, and there's abundance in your life, and you can just say thank you and just use it for good. And you don't have to feel like you're in the wrong place, because who are you to have it? Like, you're an imposter.
- [39:52]
Jaclyn Snyder
Yeah. And so much of it is tied to our identity. Right. Like, and the identity of that pain or the identity of that struggle versus what would it be like if we let it go? Right. If we. And I. And I. Thank you for sharing that. That was so powerful. Because people listening, whether they listen to your podcast, listen to mine, you know, they're like, oh, they're talking about this. They've solved for that. But not true, right? You. It's. This was happening for you probably in the last year, and this, you know, and. And I constantly am battling the way that I feel about things. I, too, just moved into, you know, my dream house, and it's freaking me out, right? That level up, that way of, like, that level up that calls you forward and levels you up. But then there's whether you want to call it faith, you know, hope. Like, there's so much tied into the idea of manifesting what you want and then holding it and living in abundance no matter what. And I think. And I'm just. I really want the listeners to hear that in the way that it is constant work. It is not. You're going to do this. You're going to read this book this one time, and you're going to. It's going to be solved, and then I can, you know, be amazing. And all the things, it's like, no. Like, we're going to constantly be working, like you said in the very beginning of the podcast, seeking. Seeking information. I mean, your book is going to be on my bed stand. So it's like, I need a little Kathy in my brain right now, right? I, like, open it up, and then I have these practical tools for joy and ease and equanimity and tuning into who my authentic self is. And so I just think it's important for people to understand that we're always going to be a work in Progress.
- [41:12]
Kathy Heller
It's totally true. And it's interesting because, you know, the way that culture sort of portrays money or women or success. Success. There's so many bad ideas that aren't even true, right? Like, the more hustle, the more money. And it's. It turns out it's like. Like when I started my podcast, that was the one thing I wasn't trying to hustle for. That was the one thing that was just really in alignment with me. So it kind of just. The door just opened, right? Or the. The way I met the guy from Apple Podcasts was I was at a networking event that I didn't want to be at at Podcast Movement. And you know this story. And I, like, left the networking event because I felt it was very stressful and I didn't bring business cards and I went to a different hotel and I met this guy in the lobby and it was the guy from Apple Podcast because I wasn't trying to hustle. But similarly, my point is, there's so many bad ideas. Like, even with money, it's like the more you have, the more greedy you are, the more you have, the more egocentric you become. I think money is neutral. It's like a car. You can either drive it to Yosemite, drive your kids to school, or you could, God forbid, get behind the wheel drunk and do something terrible. The car. It's not the car. It's what you do with the car, right? It's what you do with the money. There's so many successful people who are beautiful hearted and in integrity, so they underwrite so many incredible causes with their money. And Mother Teresa said, it takes a checkbook to change the world. And what I'm saying is there's one way of looking at money where in order to receive it, you have to actually get your ego out of the way. Because everything you and I just said that gave us a panic attack was the small self, not our soul, but our ego. That was like, who am I to have this? What. What do I have to do with this? It's like, no, no, no, no. Like, the word currency comes from the word current, which means it has to keep moving, right? And so when you are part of the oneness and you just open yourself to say, I want to be a steward for this, and it's really not about me, it's about all of us. And how can I allow this abundance to come in with the most humility and grace and just allow it to then be part of all that is that actually requires me to Move my ego out of the way and to really tap into my soul. So it's a really fascinating thing because people often think in order to be humble and spiritual and kind, you need to stay away from money. But actually, if you're a person with a good heart, look at Deepak Chopra like, he's made a billion dollars teaching people that the universe itself is abundance, that everything in the universe provides for every redwood tree to have a maximum amount of water. Every eagle was designed to thrive. And that it's our ego that deprives us from enjoying a abundant ecosystem, that there is enough for everyone. And that the Maharal, a Jewish rabbi from the 17th century, said, Every candle can lighten the limited amount of candles without losing its own flame. So abundance creates abundance. And so when we get out of the brain and that part of us that had a panic attack, that feels small and separate, and we go back into the oneness, we say, wait a minute, this is bigger than me. Whatever reason, my energy, my life, who I am, this is what's here. So I'm going to now just say, let me do my best for all that is the highest and best with what I have. And when we move from joy to gratitude, we can actually sustain enjoying things longer. The joy feels scary, and it makes us have that panic attack sometimes. But gratitude, like when you go from saying, I don't want to jinx it by saying that I just found love, to I'm gonna say it, but just share how grateful I am that I met this person, you'll be able to share it without being scared of sharing it. Gratitude turns out to be the fixed. So if you're having a panic attack from a state of joy because something so good just happened and you really don't know how to reconcile or you're scared, you can turn that to there. I have such a feeling of gratitude for what is in my life, and it brings me to my knees. I am in awe of the grace that I have this child or that I have these friends, and I just want to name it. I'm so grateful. And like, that will help you be with it.
- [45:16]
Jaclyn Snyder
So powerful. Kathy, thank you so much for sharing your journey and all these profound insights with us. I told my listeners in the beginning, I was like, this is why I love to be in your presence. It's like, I need to tune in, you know, And I think from what you shared with us, right, how to push past ego and self sabotage, how to manifest abundance through alignment, through tuning our frequency, and you've given so many practical tips here and you know, in the way of living more fully and authentically. So before we wrap up, is there one final message or piece of advice that you'd love to leave our listeners, especially for those feelings stuck or uncertain and stepping into their own abundance. What would that be?
- [45:50]
Kathy Heller
I. I think I want you to know that whatever your brain is telling you, you're already there. Meaning when you think about, picture yourself when you're like 4 years old, think about how easy it is to love that kid. Think about how far that kid could imagine for things or feel things or excite, get excited about things. And I think we've seen this quote before, right? Becoming who we are is about unbecoming what we're not. And I guess I just keep thinking we're really just looking to come home to our true self. And more than abundance, I think what everybody really wants is to feel authentically them. And I think that is the greatest feeling of abundance. When you get beyond the chatter in your mind and you come back to the essential self of who you really are and you live your day feeling as though you were you. You will be a blessing to other people. And really the most abundant thing you can do is be a walking example of what it, what it means to be present and feel like you and know that you just being you and smiling at someone, it's such a rich state of being because you will then your energy will give so much to other people. And just knowing you're holding those keys already is my is my takeaway. It's already there.
- [47:07]
Jaclyn Snyder
It's like Dorothy, she could always go home, right? She was always wearing the red slippers. She could always go there. So for everyone listening and I truly recommend this book. But if you're ready to take the next step in your own journey of abundance, I highly recommend that you get Kathy's new book, Abundant Ever after and we will link to it in the show notes. Remember, it's everything that you've gotten here from Kathy. She just like it's again, we all need a little Kathy Heller in our life. So whether you listen to the podcast, make sure you follow her show at Abundant every after grab this book to help give you those tools and wisdom so that you can create that life that you've been dreaming of. So my friend, it has been an absolute honor having you here today. You're so good, your heart, your wisdom and I know this conversation is going to resonate so deeply with so many. I'm excited to have you back on the show and we can get deeper into it for your next book or before then. And all the things same.
- [47:55]
Kathy Heller
I love being with you and thank you for all your beautiful questions and how you ask them. Such a beautiful. You're such a beautiful soul.
- [48:01]
Jaclyn Snyder
Thanks, Kathy. You too, my friend. All right, my friends, until the next one.