Jacqueline Snyder (2:42)

Hey friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Product Boss podcast. I'm so excited for today's guest. She is an absolute powerhouse and the entrepreneurial space. She's also a friend of mine. We met through being on her podcast. We've seen each other in Puerto Ric, we got our families together and saw a Broadway show in New York together. And we just, it's, it's been such an amazing gift to have found a friend like this in this world. And so I'm really excited to have her on the show today. So I have Sanira Madani on. She is the co founder of Stacks, a fintech unicorn company that revolutionized the payments industry. So after successfully exiting Stacks, she shifted her focus towards empowering women leaders through CEO School, which is a podcast and a company. And it's amazing. It's inspired thousands of female entrepreneurs worldwide. Now she's turning our attention to something even more personal and profound with her latest venture, Worth, a movement and fintech company that aims to redefine how businesses operate in this world with their worth score, with credit and with really being able to have the tools accessible to them for business. And it also helps small business owners find the value in themselves as they grow their businesses as well. Welcome to the show, Sanira.

Sanira Madani (3:55)

Thank you so much, Jacqueline, for having me. This is so long overdue. I'm so excited to be with you, with your audience today. You've had a chance different times to come be on our show at CEO School. So definitely go check out Jacqueline's episodes. They were incredible. She's amazing. Y'all have the coolest, most amazing leader ever. Jacqueline and I became friends honestly through that process of just getting to know you on the show. And then we got connected at conferences. We've like met up in person in New York City, all the things and I'm just so grateful to be here and to hopefully inspire, inspire your audience for, you know, to build not just a million dollar business, but a billion dollar one.

Jacqueline Snyder (4:31)

Oh my goodness. Billion dollar business. I hope you all heard that. I've had, I've interviewed I've had the to interview female founders that have hit that billion dollar mark here on the show, which is absolutely incredible and something I think our mothers, our grandmothers, for sure, could have never, ever imagined. So we know that you've accomplished so much already. But before we kind of dive into business stuff, I kind of want to talk more about who. Who you are at the core. Now. Both of our families have hung out. We went to see Aladdin on Broadway together and all the things. And I know, you know, you very much blend that family, you know, with your husband. Like, you travel and your kids you're there for and you're close to your family. But who are you beyond your founder and CEO titles?

Sanira Madani (5:09)

Oh, I love this question. Well, the number one title I wear is for sure mother. It's my number one job, most important job. I have two young girls, Mila, who's. And Anna, who just turned five. And so I have a third grader now, which is so crazy to, like, say. So I have a really amazing third grader and a kindergartner, and life is at, like, different level. I'm like, actually really happy to be out of that early. The baby phase was so cute, but it's so great that they're so independent. I have one drop off, one pickup. So life changes, like, in this next phase. So I'm enjoying motherhood. It's definitely also really the hardest job I wear, too. It's the constant mom guilt. I have had a very successful career. It didn't just happen by chance. I work very, very hard. It's been a decade of building. I started the company first. It was my first baby. So Stacks was my first company. I started it at the age of 25. I got married at 26. I had my first baby at 30, and it was like a rocket ship the entire time. I fundraised while pregnant. So I did a tech company which required venture capital. And so I was always on the go. I was pitching to investors. I've literally been rejected more times than I can tell you. But my family is a huge part of. They're my. Why they're my rock. I have a super supportive spouse and just an incredible partner, Faisal, who is also an entrepreneur. And so between him and I, like, we have multiple businesses as a family. We are investors. Like, we're just. There's like a million things that are happening in our business world. But a wife is also a title that I wear. And I love to cook. I love to drink wine. I love to be a dear friend. I'm, you know, an avid traveler, so I wear. I'm a podcast host, so that's another title that I wear. So the hat. I wear a lot of different hats, and I think most women wear a lot of different hats, and it's just part of. Part of our job, part of the things. And so besides CEO, there's a lot of other titles, but I proudly wear those.

Jacqueline Snyder (7:01)

Yeah. I mean, and you do it so well. I'm always like, oh, my gosh, Sanira's at the gym again. Like, well, I need to get my booty to the gym because I know how busy you are.

Sanira Madani (7:10)

No, that's just Instagram. That's the highlight reel. This morning, my car broke down. No, my car literally this morning stalled on the way to work. I did not fill the tank because as boss woman as I am and all of the things, I still. Faisal's been out of town for two days, and, like, the man fills my gas. Like, I will say I, like, do have, like, the most amazing husband. And I am not for. I'm like, super feminist, but there are some gender roles in my life that I'm willing to, like. I don't take out the garbage. Faisal always fills my gas. He's so sweet. I literally ran out of gas today. And so it's like, life moments are constant. So no matter what you see, like, and we're all just doing our best. And I do try every day. I put my head down at night and I rarely ask myself, like, did I do my best today? And the answer is, like, 99% yes. And I really do work really hard today. Even after the success, even after the exit. Like, I'm definitely probably the hardest working person that I will say I know. And it's because of my immigrant parents. Like, I grew up around, like, the most amazing family, and just the sacrifices my parents, like, did to get to this country. I was the first person in my family that, you know, graduate from college. So I carry a lot of, like, responsibility, but also, like, for myself, like, it's a lot of self inflicted ambition and self inflicted. All of that. I do my best to try to show up to be all things as best as I can, but I'm also failing at it every day.

Sanira Madani (8:28)

Yeah, I think that's you.

Jacqueline Snyder (8:29)

And I bond on that a lot because I also am first generation American, also was the first to go to college and that ambition. I'm like, I can't live this mediocre life. And it's mediocre to what I Consider mediocre, right? Which isn't, you know, other people are like, it's great and it's whatever version of life that we want. But kind of, you know, growing up how you've grown up and being first generation and first to go to college, what are those key principles or values that really guided you as you were on this journey? Because you've entered into such a space like the fintech space that is, you know, you are also a first in that space, I think as well.

Sanira Madani (9:00)

Yeah, it's. I mean, it's all male dominated. It's super. I mean, I wasn't in tech. I graduated with a degree in finance, which was like, why did I choose that? Like, there's so many paths. I look back and I'm like, how did this even happen? And that's because it's meant to happen. So just trust what's meant to happen as well. But big principles, I would say, are, you know, being authentic to who you are. Right. Like, that's a huge part of like kind of how I grew up. And like being proud of where you come from, being proud of your culture. Family values were like super critical. So like we had dinner every single night together. So I kind of grew up with like, we were very modern from a household perspective, from the traditional immigrant families, but still very traditional and value centric pieces. And so I like, you know, I was still afraid of like my parents and like, I couldn't get a, Like I needed to get A's and like that was important and I couldn't lie. And like, I would get caught like if I, like, I would die if like I had to like got caught with something with my parents. Like, I was still like a really disciplined kid and a good kid. And I think just good values around family value systems are. I think kids do turn out to like, I mean not every person is like a perfect. Like there are things about my parents that I know I saw and then I was like, I want to be different in how I parent. But I think value systems, if you have really good value systems, and we did have those, those carry on. And so I'm trying to do my best to raise my kids in that value system. Hard work. That's a huge value system. I mean, I grew up around small business my entire life. So I worked since I was like a kid, but not in the sake of like, how I knew, how I thought of work. Like, we just all went to work or after school, my mom would pick me up and then we would go to the Restaurant or we'd go to the gas station and we had all these things, small businesses. And, you know, I saw my parents be owners and be entrepreneurs, and I saw them stock shelves. And then I, you know, I was given responsibility of doing things every time I was at the C store or I was at the restaurant, whether that was like, counting inventory or stocking. Stocking, you know, a grocery shelf. Like, I have a memory that I share of, like, a core memory of mine. So I'm at the gas station, like one of my parents gas stations in Texas. I grew up in Dallas. And I'm stock. Like, my job was still. And I love that was like, the cans. Like, this is like 90s. And you had. This is before, like, technology and point of sale. So you had like, a sticker gun where like. Like, I think some stores still have it, but it'll be like, let's say the can is like 79 cents or 99 cents or whatever. Like a can of corn is. You, like, slap the stickers on top for pricing because it doesn't scan or you didn't have, like, QR codes or the codes. And so my job that day was to stock up the canned food aisle shelf, and I got the pricing gun, and all I wanted to do was to use that thing, like, whip it all the way through. I was like 9 years old maybe to stock the stock those cans or to put the pricing. And I thought I did a great job. I got everything done. I did it fast. And I was, like, so excited for the sticker gun. And my dad comes around and he's like, redo all of that. And I'm like, what? It's so great. It's done the pricing. And I'm like, the pricing's correct. I double checked the pricing. Like, tomatoes were this and corn was that. And he goes, take a look again. And he's like, some stickers are in the front, Some stickers are up on top. The cans are not all facing towards the front. And so he's like, if you want to do something, you have to do it well. And so go back through every line and make sure that the cans are facing to the front, that they're in the correct. They're in the correct order, and that the stickers are all at the same spot. So if you're doing it up top, it has to be up top so you can nicely see the label of the Del Monte can or the whatever the can it was. So put it up top and do it right. And I was so annoyed Jacqueline. That he made me redo that whole shelf. But it's such a core memory of that. Not just the hard work, not just getting it done, but doing it right and taking that extra step and being like, no. When the customer comes around, you know, this is a reflection of everything else in the store. And that quality, that care, that's what makes our store different. That it's always going to be just really beautiful when you're going to walk in. And I just. I look back at that memory, and it's like all those little defining moments, and I'm so grateful for them. And those are the things that have made me who I am today.

Jacqueline Snyder (12:59)

I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. Do you ever think with our kids, we're really messing them up? Because, like, my son literally last night said, I'm not scared of you. Or no, he said, I'm scared of you. And my daughter goes, I'm not scared of you. And I was like, you know, like, I got to make them do some harder things.

Sanira Madani (13:14)

I would say yes and no. I think that our kids are going to grow up with a ton of privilege, for sure. And I think even with privilege, you can still teach your kids how to be good humans. And so I think that that's the biggest core of it. Like, if we're going to mess up our kids, it's not because of this. Like, I've. I've seen this done well. I don't really share this, like, often, because I think people assume also that because I was an immigrant kid, we didn't struggle. Like, I was upper middle class growing up. I didn't have, like, I had a really nice car for my. I had a lot of things that were really awesome about my childhood, too. So I never had to work financially, even through college. I had internships the entire time, but I had a full ride to school. I got a scholarship. I did feel very taken care of from that sense. I didn't have. We didn't have, like, you know, like, I wasn't super spoiled in the way that right now my kids are able to fly the way that they do. And, like, they. You know, there's a different level of what their life looks like right now. But I'm sharing that because even through that, like, you don't have to have a struggling childhood to turn out to be a good human or to have a hard, Like, a work ethic. I think it was one of the things that my parents did that I look back on, because these are the conversations that, like, As I said, like, mom's my number one tight. I want to make sure I'm raising two really strong girls right now. And the thing that I think worked really well is that they incorporated my brother and I into the things that they did. And this goes back to what you were talking about of work life, integration in the beginning of, like, my kids are always with me, and so I pull them out of school, right? And that's not perfect parenting to stuff like, next week, I'm heading to New York again for the United Nations. I'm. I'm receiving this award from UN it's really exciting. I'm so excited. Like, it's such an honor. And of course, I want my girls there. I'm getting to ring the stock exchange. I'm getting to do the coolest stuff. Who needs to be front row are my kids. And, yes, we're going to miss school, and, yes, we're going to. But stuff like this happens all the time. Not just from, like, an award standpoint, but, like, I'm heading to a conference, and I'm like, oh, I get to meet. Like, I was at a conference for Ernst and Young, and I was a speaker for an ey conference. I got the schedule and the run a show. Simone Biles was. She was right after me. So I was the speaker right before Simone. So I knew we were gonna cross paths backstage. Right? It's just, like, I've done the thing. I know how it's gonna work. And so the girls came with me, and I knew that, and I. There was maybe, like, a chance that it didn't happen, but, you know, they had. We had just finished watching not this Olympics, but the one like, the. You know, the one before. And, like, I just. It was the coolest thing ever. My kids were backstage with me. I was getting mic'd up. Of course, Simone comes off. She sees the girls. I say hi to her. She talked to Mila. She talked to Ana. She took photos. Like, that moment happened because I forced them to go with me. And it could have been like. And even if that didn't happen, they got to see their mom do her thing. And I think that that's a big part of it. So I think integrating life with kids is, like, this is what it's about. And so I think that these are. This is. This is what I hope. And I don't know it because they're so young, but I don't think we're messing them up. I think there might be different things of, like, their privilege is going to be unique in different ways, but as long as we can teach them to be good humans, every day we have dinner together. Like, spending time is what counts. And so trying to spend time, quality time is what I think was going to drive. And you do that, Jacqueline, and I've seen you do that, and I think that's why we connect so much, too.

Sanira Madani (16:20)

Yeah.

Jacqueline Snyder (16:21)

That's so powerful. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I think, you know, we all have our stories and our origin stories, and then it's that idea of, like, what shaped. I mean, you're so successful, I'm successful, and, like, what shapes that journey for people. And just so interesting, the different paths that we have. So let's move in into. Let's talk about CEO school. So it's a podcast. It's amazing. Like, how are you supporting female entrepreneurs? And you've also got the millionaire founders, which I'm a part of. I was so excited to be one of the founding members of that. So let's dig into that a little bit.

Sanira Madani (16:48)

Yeah, I mean, my journey. I feel like I was so lonely. I actually just recorded an episode this week on, like, it's Halloween, when I was, like, recording for this show. And I'm like, the scary truths of entrepreneurship. So I'm like, the real, like, spooky truths. And the biggest thing that was, like, the hardest challenge for me. And I'm sure all the entrepreneurs here. It's lonely. It's so lonely being an entrepreneur. And then you add just. Just also, like. And I have a business partner, so my brother is actually a business partner. So ironic of, like, that crazy childhood. Him and I actually work together. It's the coolest thing to have a family business. It's also the wildest thing to work with your sibling. And it works for us. And we're, you know, we've a lot of. We've really great communication to make it work, but it's scary. Even though I have a business partner, it's still so lonely because there's so many things he can't relate to. My other business, I've got as partners. I've got, like, life. It's not the same for us as women. Like, I just feel like. And I was in. We had a lot of success. I was in all of the circles, the EOs, the YPOs. There's all these great networks to combat the community portion or why entrepreneurship is lonely. Building those circles, growing your network. So, so important. But I felt like every room I went into, it all looked the same, and it didn't look like me. And it was a bunch of dudes. Everywhere I went, like, every place I went, it was all men. And especially in my industry, in fintech and finance, like, it's all men. And I just felt like I was leaving the part of me always at the door. Before I walked into. Into that room, I. Nobody was talking about their families. Nobody was talking. And it was all business and no life. And I think as for me, like, business is life and life is life, and I want it to be integrated. Otherwise it's not going to work. Like, it's not going to work for me. And I knew I was. I could be successful at doing both, but I just didn't see examples of that ever. And every room that I also went into, even this is pre Covid, right? Like, women were not sharing their whole selves as well. Even in the success part of it, of, oh yeah, I do have kids. And I was able to like, never saw women successfully fundraise. Right? Less than 2% of venture capital. Still, even today, in 2024, the stats are the same from when I started in 2013. It's atrocious. That was a challenge. And then no one's talking. No one's talking about life and business. And every time I try to talk about it, or I would get the advice from guys, I'd be like, well, scenario. You take things too personal. It's just business. Like, it's just business. And I'm like, no, business is personal. The team that I want on my team, I do treat like family because they're an extension of my brand. They're an extension of who I am. Like, I am an empathetic leader. The way I lead is different than the way that my brother leads. Not that he's not empathetic. They're just different styles, right? And so I just felt lonely and I was tired of being in those rooms. I was like, where are the. Where are the ladies at? Like, where is this room? And I couldn't find the right rooms to be in. And like, what's really crazy is, like, once you, like, you know, I don't know what the adage is, but, like, once you, like, buy a car, then you see that car, like, everywhere. So what was cool is, like, once I, like, you know, I was like, no, I need to create a table for ourselves. And I started reaching out to women that I knew across different industries. It wasn't just in my industry. I was like, let's get together. And it started off with, like, a small Meetup. Then it started off with a mastermind, then it started up with a larger community, then it became retreats and it just like formed from there. But I really found not just my tribe. I ended up meeting so many incredible women through this journey. The podcast was formed in 2020, so it did start off with I didn't go to CEO school. That's where CEO school comes from. And so I didn't know I could go build a million dollar business, let alone a billion dollar one. And I believe that every woman has the right to have it all and whatever all looks like. And for me it was my family, it was a business and it was my personal life. Like it was my. I wanted to have a podcast and to have a personal brand and to, to do things that I cared about and to make an impact and to be charitable and to be, to pick my lane and women in business was that. And I just constantly was told that I can't have it all or I can't have it all at once. And I'm like, no, these are the three things that I choose. I'm going to do it. And so I just surrounded myself with women who also want to have it all, like you, Jacqueline. And that's really what CEO school is about.

Jacqueline Snyder (20:40)

It's so good and it's so needed in this space and to be shared and especially the way that you share it. Like you said, we all have different ways of explaining or teaching from our own life lessons.

Sanira Madani (20:49)

Hey friend. Okay, I want to talk about something that I know that you really need.

Jacqueline Snyder (20:53)

But so many people have all the reasons why they don't do this.

Sanira Madani (20:57)

We really need is we need to build an email list. I'm going to tell you that there are two things that you need as a product based business. You need an email list because that is your asset. You actually own that and that's the direct communication with your customers and you need your own website because you can't build on borrowed land. But right now I want to talk about email marketing. Because email marketing is actually the way that you are going to drive sales sales in your business. It's the way that you're going to stay connected. Forget thinking that social media is the way because guess what, the algorithm chooses who they want to send your images and reels and all the things to. But emails really gets you connected with your customers. So if you feel like you're trying to connect, you're trying to sell, and you feel like you're wasting hours trying to get the job done or you feel like you would just like an easier way. My friends, this year it's time for a change. And that change is Klaviyo. It is the number one email and SMS marketing platform that I recommend specifically for product based business owners. Did you hear that? It's for product based business owners, people who sell products online. And the reason why it's so amazing is that it's got these incredible capabilities and it's seamless with so many of the tools and the platforms that we recommend. So with Klaviyo, you can send personalized messages, you can automate campaigns, and here's the best part. You can boost your sales and your revenue without having to do much more than type in a few things into your keyboard. Okay, so Klaviyo makes your emails feel like they are talking directly to your customers.

Jacqueline Snyder (22:25)

Right?

Sanira Madani (22:25)

Your customers are gonna feel like it's a one on one conversation with you. And it's super easy to set up. Even if tech is not your thing. Trust me, tech's not my thing either. And this is amazing. So if you're ready to see it in action, I'd love you to get started for free. Now all you have to do is head to the productboss.com klaviyo that's the productboss.com K L A V I Y O and turn your email list into your best performing sal channel that you own. Hey, friends, are you unsure of what to say on social media or what to even send in your weekly emails? Well, what if creating content could be easy?

Jacqueline Snyder (23:01)

Would you be looking for a shortcut.

Sanira Madani (23:03)

To creating consistent content? Yes, consistent content. Because, you know, consistency is key. Well, let me tell you, you are not alone when you feel like you're struggling on what to post or what to write in emails. And we know that you have that product part of your business down. But as you're listening to this podcast, you probably already know that to get more people to your products, to buy your products, you need to create great content.

Jacqueline Snyder (23:25)

Oh, I know. I see.

Sanira Madani (23:27)

I keep saying content, and that's the dreaded C word. And we can't tell you how many product bosses tell us that they want to create great content for their audience and their customers, but they don't know what to say. Or they are so busy they can't find the time, or they really, really, really don't want to be the face of their brand.

Jacqueline Snyder (23:44)

Well, no worries, because that's exactly why.

Sanira Madani (23:46)

We created a year of content. It is cut to creating consistent content that resonates with your audience and brings more loyal customers who can't wait to buy your products. If you want to see how easy this is and how easy it is to create content for your audience and your customers, head to www.ayearofcontent.com.

Jacqueline Snyder (24:08)

You know, it's really interesting in the kind of transition is that obviously Stacks was a huge success in the fintech space and you've exited that business. Like you said, it's a billion dollar unicorn business, which is just absolutely incredible. So now moving into this next chapter for you, you're really inspired by and like the impact that you're having with the creation of worth. So let's talk about worth a little bit. I know it's all about helping women own their value and really dive into what they're, you know, the feeling of worthiness and being of worth. But it's also fintech, so let's kind of dig in so people know more about it.

Sanira Madani (24:43)

Yeah, I cannot believe I'm back at building another fintech again. But it's, you know, that's what the bug is. It's serial entrepreneurship. I get it now because once you solve a problem and you have the playbook to do it, you're like, okay, here's this next really big problem. And I know I can go solve this problem. And one of the challenges. So at Stacks, we were a payment processor, but we were a financial institution. So we onboarded so many small businesses. And so this so worth is not just for women or just for minority founders, it's for all small businesses. But one of the things that we, what we saw was that small businesses are just left out of the conversation from a financial credit worthiness. So I'm in fintech, I'm in finance. I'm going to try to make it as like layman's terms, simple as possible. But we all know our personal credit score, we all know our personal we should not. And I think that there is a huge gap in even personal finances for women that we're now addressing. But we all have standardization on our personal financial health. That's the credit score. So it determines our credit worth as an individual. That's how we buy a home, that's how we buy a car. And if we don't pay our bills, it's also, you know, our credit score goes down. So it's a way to standardize and look at our personal finances. And it's not always perfect, but there's some sort of standard in that. And so when you go buy a car, it doesn't matter the color of your skin. It doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman. All you need is a W2 and your credit score. And you should be able to walk out with that Toyota or that G Wagon, right? Like, depending on where you're at, what that money is in your bank, and what's on your credit score. So what's really interesting is that personal finances can be spoken with through data. But what's interesting is that in the business financial world, so when we're doing credit worth, so when we were onboarding, we were a payment processor like Stripe or like Square. So when you apply for as a small business owner, you have to go get a business credit card, you have to go open up a bank account, you have to get a loan, a line of credit. Like, there's so many financial tools. You actually need more financial tools as business than you do as a person. Okay. So you need all these slew of products, every single institution. So whether it's bank of America that's onboarding you, whether it's a payment processor like Stacks, whether it's a business credit card like Capital One, whether it's a line of credit, whatever this business business solution set is, every one of those institutions, it's called underwriting, they have to underwrite Jacqueline's llc. What's happening is that they're doing it from human to human. So they're not making decision making on data. They're like, jacqueline, send us your last three years of profit and loss. Jacqueline's apply on this like 17 page application. And then you're like, wait, I just did this for bank of America for my credit card. Why? Like, you have to do it differently for every style of product? Because there's been no standardization of credit worth in the business ecosystem. So Worth is creating the worth score, which is the business credit score. And so what we've done is we've partnered with Equifax, with Stripe, with Plaid, with the irs. So we've built some really heavy tech to integrate every financial data point about Jacqueline's llc. And it's creating this awesome business credit score and business credit worth. And that's what worth is. We want every business to know their worth. And so when the institution is onboarding them, that they're doing it fairly and equitably, one based on the business data. And even as a small business owner, I've never had access to know my credit worth. Why does everybody have keys to my kingdom when it's my business? So how Do I improve upon that if I'm a small business and I need, and this is a great thing for, as you know, you're dealing with product based companies. Product based companies sometimes need it the most with inventory, with cash flow. Like there's so much. We should be able to know our worth and how to grow our credit worth as well so that we can call upon better lines of credit, better institutions. And so we're trying to standardize the way right now the institutions have really held the power and it's been a lot of gatekeeping and not on purpose, it's just the way that the systems have been built. And so we're systems disruptors. This is a really big problem and we're trying to create like an equitable landscape and when we change the way that a business is onboarded. Right. So, so right now I'm selling to all of these large companies to onboard customers more fairly equitably and use data that we're providing. But the end goal is for you, Jacqueline, LLC or product company, llc, to have your business credit score and to say now actually I'm going to choose to use Capital One or I'm going to choose to use this product or I'm going to choose to use this one and have options and grow your credit worth. And so empowering back the small business. So it's a business credit score. It's wild, it's crazy, it's scary. We've had a ton of success already. We've exited. There's not many. There's about 20 plus 20 women maybe that have exited a business north of a billion. I'm not doing this for money, for like another thing to put on like my checklist or another trophy on the shelf. Like truly, I know once you know the problems of the industry, like you can't sleep at night and I know I can leave a legacy by changing the way we view credit Worth. And I see it all the time. I was an entrepreneur who was left out of that ecosystem as a minority business owner even, even under three years. If you're a business under three years, you don't get access to so much. Entrepreneurship just looks completely different in 2024. And institutions evolve and how they're onboarding and viewing customers. And so that's what Worth is doing.

Jacqueline Snyder (29:40)

So valuable, so needed in this industry. I mean, I remember, I think when I first started my business back in 2007, I remember thinking, oh, I just need to get the bbb, the Better Business Bureau, you know.

Sanira Madani (29:50)

Yeah. And.

Jacqueline Snyder (29:50)

Or I needed A Dun and Bradstreet number. Those were all these things. But then they didn't actually ever come into play with the things that I needed to do in my business. And you're right, line of credits, credit cards, like everything is solo. They need so much information and so it really would be very helpful. So thank you for creating that for small business owners. So talking about finance, and I know that, you know, in this, in the world, or let's say a large majority of my audience, they tend to have a lot of stuff tied up in mindset about finance and about their own worth. And I would even say there's confusing information out there that, you know, people are like, cash only, pay off your debt, don't live in debt, don't take lines of credit, things like that. But we're talking product based business owners here where they need cash flow.

Sanira Madani (30:31)

Right.

Jacqueline Snyder (30:31)

You have to buy the raw goods, you have to buy the product before you ever sell it and then you hope to sell it down the road. So because you come from the finance space and as a woman and being raised by entrepreneurs, how would you address that mindset of them feeling not only worthy to make money, but also that it doesn't make them bad or a bad business owner to be operating using credit or leveraging, leveraging money through debt. Credit cards, lines of credit, all the things.

Sanira Madani (30:57)

Yeah, I think I love this question. I get this all the time for women in CEO school. Just like, how much cash do I need in the bank? What is acceptable debt in my business? Do I even need debt? Do I need to pay everything off? And my answer to them, it varies, it depends and it's not the best answer. But every business is unique and it's different. And so first I would say what I feel comfortable with is like you have to first determine what you do feel comfortable with. Debt isn't a bad thing. But what I don't want is you just racking up your like your credit cards is not the way to do it. And then paying 17% interest on it. Right. So there's good debt. Right. And so if you're getting a great loan from the SBA with an incredible interest rate, that's fantastic. Right? So you want to be able to take on debt that you can pay back. So that is important as well because you don't want to be taking things on that you're simply are overextended. That's, that's not the goal of debt. But you've started your business, you might have needed a little bit of line to get that business started. There is an area where you're allowed to play a little bit in the ride, but it just depends again, the style of business that you're creating, what you need. As soon as you have that traction, you also have to get comfortable. Cash flow is the most important part of your business, especially as a product based business owner. I recently gave a talk at a university and I had a slide up there that literally said, cash flow is more important than your mother. Like I had it as an acronym like cfiy, whatever M and it was like, cash flow is more important than your mother. It is the most important thing in a business and you have to get smart about managing it. And I think it's, we as women have been taught our entire lives to not deal with the finances of the business and we have to get very comfortable with finances first in the business and then making business decisions around your cash flow, around the strategic portion of your finances. And you're so smart, you've already started the business, you have product traction, you have all these things like don't discount yourself and don't be the woman that's like, oh, my bookkeeper has it or my accountant has it. Like you still have to be, you have to be armed enough to be dangerous. Like you have to be able to know to be able to ask the questions. And I find so often sometimes when entrepreneurs get themselves into trouble or they, you know, have a really successful business in other capacities, but the business, they're not profitable or the business isn't working for themselves or their margins aren't where they need to, to be at. We have to have those disciplines upfront. So I would say is ensure that you have, you don't have to do it alone, right? You should have a strategic financial partner. So your accountant, your bookkeeper, you should be able to ask them questions and they should be able to support you on how you should be viewing cash flow of your business. So you don't have to do it alone. And that's also why we also have these awesome peer groups, right? Because I want to know how everyone's viewing their cash challenges or what that looks like. But for a product based company, it's okay to have some debt if you have this, if you have a big purchase order and you have to go get the goods, it's not that you're not going to, you already have the purchase order. And so it's very, it's very common for large scaling product based companies to have lines of credit and lines of credits are constantly being paid back. And so debt can look different. So I think the word debt, we kind of bucket it as all the same. And that debt is scary. Doesn't have to be scary. You just have to be able to manage it. You want to be able to leverage it and you want to be able to, like, even if you don't need it, having a line of credit doesn't mean you have to pull it. But it's there if you need a line. Right. That's what it's there for. It's like a lifeline. So if I do get a large purchase order, I can go and I can call upon that. Right. And I know my terms already. I've already negotiated the terms with the bank. And so there's so many ways to view debt. Go to your business financial partner, right? And if you don't have one, seek one. Right? So if you're a small business and you're a solopreneur, you're like, I don't have it. Even with your bookkeeper, like, whoever is supporting you in the business finances, have a conversation and talk to experts to say, you know, get a consultation on what your business financials look like, what can be better, because you just want to leverage the systems. And there are great ways to leverage cash in different ways, credit in different ways, but you do have to be able to manage it, and I don't want you to manage it recklessly. And where we get into trouble and where we hear horror stories are people who aren't managing it right. And so you can use it for good, use it for the right things, and you should be able to expand your business. It should be able to help you scale it.

Jacqueline Snyder (34:52)

Yeah, I completely agree with that. Thank you for sharing that part. So I know that, you know, you've been so focused over the last year and plus right. On building worth, driving worth and all of the stuff that you've been doing. So what do you see? What do you hope to achieve with worth in the next five to 10 years, particularly when it comes to transforming that financial access for small business owners?

Sanira Madani (35:12)

Yeah, I think, you know what I was sharing earlier. It's. It's a big. It's a big mission. It's a big vision for every business to have a business credit score. Like, that's, that's the vision right now. Every business to be able to have an equitable shot at all the things that they need access to and to ensure that there's transparency. It should be easy for a business to say, here's all my options, my, this is my business cash flow. I should get a line of credit or, you know, this is what I'm paying on my credit card or my APR rates. There's better ones. And, you know, now Capital One wants to bid on my business. Like, why don't we have the institutions fight for our business? Why are we the ones trying to show prove our worth to them? It's not just trying to flip the narrative here to give power back to the small business. And so that's, that's the vision. That's, that's the goal and I hope to not be in the driver's seat. So this time around, I was in the driver's seat for 10 years as CEO. My vision is to, you know, takes a lot to get a company off the ground, but I want to play a strategic role in the business and, you know, get what I need to get up and get the partnerships and drive the key customers and key growth in the business and then sit on the board and continue to support strategically. So that's my personal, my personal vision for myself and I'm just really excited for that. And to continue to do the work that I do with, with women in business. Like, this is a huge passion of mine. I'm. I can't believe it. Almost five years into the 20th of March of this coming up year. So it's four and a half years now, but March of 2025 will be five years of the co School podcast, which is how long have you been doing the show? Long time, right?

Jacqueline Snyder (36:39)

Oh, yeah, like beginning of 2018.

Sanira Madani (36:43)

Oh my God. So even longer. So you're like, you're six year seven going into year seven. Like, that's crazy to do. Like, this takes so much work to consistently do a show and to like it is probably one of the hardest things that I do where it's like, I look back and I'm like, I cannot believe I've had a weekly show teaching CEO school or having this podcast for like, this is the longest thing that I've done in this level of consistency. And so I'm just super proud of that. And I want to just continue to share the most incredible women on the show and to support women entrepreneurs in different ways and enjoy my life. Enjoy the freedom. Right? I think that's a big part of why you become an entrepreneur is freedom is to have the freedom. And I have a freedom formula. And sometimes I'm off on my own freedom formula. The freedom formula is freedom of time, freedom of dollar and freedom of Impact. So those are my having it all, what all love looks like for me. And when I. Sometimes when I have the freedom of dollar and right now I don't have freedom of time because I'm so busy building again. So I want to make sure I balance my freedoms. So to have, you know, impact dollar and time. And so that's my hope for myself and for women everywhere to find it's never going to be balanced, but you know, integrated in what all looks like for her. And that's what I'm trying to do every day.

Jacqueline Snyder (37:53)

Yeah, it's so good. Thank you. This was so good. I just. I love listening to you speak. I'm like, I can listen to this all day, and this is so inspiring. And you're, you know, and congratulations, by the way. I wasn't able to congratulate UN getting an award there. I mean, you're doing incredible things in this world.

Sanira Madani (38:08)

I'm just so humbled. I'm so grateful. I recognize the privilege that I have. I worked really, really hard to get here. But it definitely is like, blessings and being good and good karma and right timing. And every day I pray and I ask for, you know, the universe to put people in my life that are good to me and good for me. Like, that's every day, is my prayer every day. And I do feel really grateful that I do get to just connect with really amazing humans, and somehow that leads to something else, and that leads to something else. And I recognize the privilege that I have with everything, and I don't want to put it on the shelf and go retire, because I feel like there's so much impact that can come, you know, at this stage. And so I'm really focused on just building impact. And I'm trying not to lose myself because it's. It's hard. Like, it's. And I. And when you follow me online, if you want to follow me, you'll see, like, the craziness of my life and how much I try to juggle all the things, but just shout out to all the working moms and like, mom bosses and CEOs who are doing life and business. It's a constant level of prioritization. Like, there's just like, every day, there's like a series of prioritizations constantly, every day, and you're disappointing someone somewhere all the time. And so I try not to be too hard on myself, but it's hard. And. And I just. Just feel so grateful for all these awesome women that I meet and that we can have our our time and our space and relate to other, you know, to your ambitions and your desires and support each other. Your network is everything. Everything that I have right now in my life is because somebody somewhere gave me a shot. Somebody somewhere connected me to the right person. Somebody somewhere did this or that. And so relationships really matter. Getting in the room matters. And so I just want to encourage all of the product bosses that are listening to get out of the screen and get into the rooms. It's so important to get yourself out there and to pour into yourself and to pour into the community and to pour into your business and life in that way. So I just want to remind all of our product bosses of that.

Jacqueline Snyder (40:00)

So good. So how and where. So where can we follow you and tell us about the show where we can listen to it?

Sanira Madani (40:05)

Yeah, you can find CEO School on any podcast, podcast, network. So wherever you listen to Jaclyn, you can go follow along to CEO School. You can follow me online on LinkedIn, on Instagram, Sunira Madani. That's S u n e e R a and Madani is M a d h a n I so just my name on, on socials. And when you go to my name on, I think on Instagram, I've got a link which will take you to Worth, which will take you to the podcast, which will take you to all the things and so you can check everything out from. From my page.

Jacqueline Snyder (40:33)

Amazing. Thank you for being on. It was so fun. Thank you, thank you.