← The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
689. “I Launched My Product… So Why Aren’t Sales Coming In?” | Coaching Session with Ashley of Saints & Ivy
00:44:21
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- [00:02]
Jacqueline Snyder
Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business, and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams, no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this.
- [01:00]
Ashley Terrell
Oh my goodness.
- [01:01]
Jacqueline Snyder
Friends, if you are anything like me, you probably spend more time running errands than running your business. Am I right? Like, everything needs something, we gotta run around. And I knew that this was like a major issue for me back in the day, which is why I decided to get help where I could. And I decided to let Instacart handle all of my grocery shopping. So I no longer had to worry about running all the errands and having to run out and get more almond milk for lattes. Rather, I was like, you know what, we're just gonna let Instacart handle that. So I want you to imagine skipping the store and getting back to designing packaging, orders, making, or maybe actually taking a break, even a nap. Remember those? Okay, so with Instacart, you can get groceries and essentials delivered in as fast as an hour, so you can focus on growing your business without sacrificing a meal. Plus, less stress and more focus. And here's a tip. I've actually used Instacart before to order gifts from my daughter's friend's birthday parties because I haven't had time to run out and get presents. And I've been able to get the packaging like the gift bag and the gift like Hel Sephora delivered to my house while I was in the middle of coaching sessions so that I could have the present right. It's like having a personal assistant without having a personal assistant. So if you want to do what I do and get the help where you can, you can try it now if you head to the Product Boss.com Instacart hey, hey, product Bosses. Welcome back to another coaching episode. This is where we're gonna fix what's happening in Product Bosses businesses. And welcome to the Product Boss podcast. So today I'm excited to look under the hood and help Ashley Terrell. She is the founder of Saints and Ivy. And what we're going to do is we're going to take a look and see what we can fix in her business because she has a brand new children's pajama company that's just getting started. And you might be thinking, okay, wait, she's just getting started. How can we fix it? Well, how can we fix these foundations that she's laying? So, so many times I hear some of my students say, you know, if only I had done this earlier, I've only had done this in the very beginning stages, whether it was just starting out or just in the very beginning, I would have laid a stronger foundation. So some of us, yeah, sure, we're down the line. We're always going to be learning, we're always going to be fixing. And some of us are like, oh, let's see how we can handle this. In the very beginning, I mean, we all have launched something new. But maybe you're at the new, newer part of the season for you in this business. Maybe you're in that early stage of building a business. But I know you've done this before. Then you know this feeling. We have a lot of passion for our product. We've got a lot of excitement behind it and we're wondering, okay, I've got this thing, I've got this idea, I'm so excited, but how do I actually get people to see it? How do I get them to know about it? How do I get them to buy it? So Ashley came into this coaching session feeling stuck on sales, right? She wasn't sure, how do I grow a following on social media? Is a question that she'll ask. Or am I even posting the right kind of content to grow a following and sell my stuff? And like so many of us at the start, or actually, you're probably thinking, actually, I'm still having that conversation. I've been doing this for 10 years. We might be thinking, what am I supposed to do? Why isn't my audience growing? What am I supposed to post on social? How do I get people to actually find me and buy from me? Right? This is literally whether you're just starting out or you, you have truthfully, you know, these big businesses, like, let's just call it like a Nike, a Lululemon whatever. They're also, they have teams asking this question because things are constantly changing. So in this episode, I'm going to share snippets from a coaching call that I had with Ashley that helped her build a plan to increase her visibility.
- [04:20]
Ashley Terrell
Right.
- [04:20]
Jacqueline Snyder
We got to fix this plan. We got to fix and figure out how do we actually get visibility and people to know we exist. And then we had to really talk about how are we going to connect with the ideal customer, that one customer, and build an audience around that. And then when we know all this, what are we going to do in our business so that we can actually market and grow sales? So if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's dive in.
- [04:45]
Ashley Terrell
Ashley, I'm so excited to work with you today and to do this coaching call and really see how we can really move your pajama business, this brand new business, into being known by families across America and across the world. So thank you for being on.
- [05:00]
Thank you for having me.
- [05:02]
So your biggest struggle is sales. And you want to talk about the sales, figuring out what's a problem, what's causing the lack of sales, and the best approach for utilizing social media and increasing visibility. So I think really what it is is yes. And so, yes, sales, but it's probably awareness that your brand exists and then that awareness and then the parts there. So you kind of need an offer, an audience, and how you're going to make the sales. So I'm on your Instagram. It's super cute. You got 92 followers. It's fine. You just started and no one makes it easy to grow online. So tell me right now you're just selling direct to consumer online, Correct? Okay.
- [05:40]
Took some time, put a website together and I launched it via Instagram pretty much. I thought that I would be able to build a good amount of followers by doing a giveaway when I first launched, but I didn't see too much success with it, to be very honest. So I didn't do another one. I planned on doing another one. I was like, maybe I should slow down and, you know, try to build, you know, a following. I do struggle a little bit with content. I think I struggle a little bit with it because a, I'm unclear of what's, you know, what's appropriate for me to post as far as, like, kids stuff and what the parent wants to see. And then I think the other side of it is I felt like I was posting so much of the same stuff. So I noticed with a lot of my competitors, they go on and they release all these designs almost like back to back. One of my competitors actually drops a new design like every week, which I obviously can't keep up with as a new brand. So I felt like I was posting the same thing and it just kind of got to a point like I shouldn't keep posting the same onesies, same designs over and over. So that, you know, obviously became a challenge.
- [06:58]
Jacqueline Snyder
Here's where I want to hit pause again because here is the next crucial step. What Ashley's facing right now is not a product problem. Again, you're going to hear me talk about this a lot because as I've been really just working and fixing my business and my messaging and really as I've fully taken ownership of the product, boss. Because if you've been around historically or you listen to any episodes, like 200 episodes ago, I decided to buy this business from my co founder and our paths diverged. We went into different ways. And for a while, long time, I was sort of still one foot into the way we were doing it and one foot into like, what's my, how do I want to do this? How do I want to coach? What do I want to do? Well, I'm fully moved. I fully moved fully into my version. Okay. That's where I am now. And one of the things that I've been seeing is so many times we are thinking about our businesses from the product's perspective. Like, how do we fix the product? We got to lower the product. We got to make the price of this and the product's really important. But the product isn't the thing. That is why you're going to sell. It's how the product fits with your customer, what your customer is aware of. And here too, it's also not her price point because sometimes we're like, well, if I just lower the price, maybe that would bring a married customer. And in this too, it's not even the quality of the photos or even her website. These are not. You might be like, maybe this is broken. Maybe this is broken. Yes, all of these can get fixed, updated, fine tuned, always. But what we're realizing here is actually what we really have to fix is the awareness. It's an awareness problem. Not enough of the right people know she exists. Her one customer, like her one ideal customer. And you're going to learn this in my program, right? You're going to learn this in the product that is fix. We talk about the one right ideal customer. If that person and there's many people out there that are the Same if they don't know that her business exists, then she's got this awareness problem. They're never gonna buy. Cause they don't know she exists. And honestly, this is where so many small business owners get tripped up. They start to question everything. They think, okay, well, maybe it's the product, maybe I gotta make more products or maybe it's the price, I gotta lower the price. Like, maybe it's too expensive. Or even you're looking at it and you're like, what does this look like? Like, maybe, I don't know, maybe I gotta do this. But really, and I help you with all of this because yes, we do have to fix our product or make sure it's the right one. Yes, we do have to make sure that our price is completely aligned with our ideal customer. And yes, the packaging should be like a cute guy at a bar or cute girl at a bar, or a cute person at a bar where you're like, ooh, hello, Jason Momoa, I'd like to come have a conversation with you. Yes, that's my celebrity crush and he's the exact opposite of my husband. But that's okay because I really, I. It's a whole other conversation, guys. But the packaging is something that's going to attract them, right? He's going to walk over across the bar and be like, hey, what's up? But the deal here is, is it doesn't matter if you are real cute in a bar where nobody is or that perfect person isn't, right? Because the really issue, the real issue, I know I'm going on a tangent, but the real issue here is that there's just simply not enough eyeballs on her business yet. There's not enough eyeballs. So what I helped Ashley see in this session is that she has something really special. She has a mission driven brand with a beautiful product and a deep purpose behind it. Her pajamas aren't just cute sleepwear. They represent her vision for inclusivity, for cultural representation, and for showing children the joy of seeing themselves reflected in the designs they wear. This is an incredible, incredible business. And the unfortunate part about all of this is that none of it is going to matter if no one knows her brand exists. So before we even talk about sales, we need to talk about how she's going to get known, how people are going to discover her, how they're going to find her, how she's going to show up, how to get visible. Because my friend, awareness comes first. People need to know you exist, your brand exists, your business exists, and Then the sales will follow. So let's jump back in and you'll see how I help Ashley identify her. The one customer, her target customer. Right. Her ideal audience. And I want to remind you, we're not selling to everyone. If you sell to everyone, you're selling to no one. And this is a huge fix. You got to be the right fit and we're going to develop and work and build her brand, especially her brand voice.
- [11:29]
Ashley Terrell
Do you think you're funny or serious like in your brand, brand and brand mess? Like where do you think do you want to be helpful to moms? Like hey moms, if your toddler is like out of their mind, this is helpful. Or oh my God, being a mom with a toddler is like having a bowl in your kitchen or something. Like which way do you think you want to go?
- [11:46]
To be honest, I wish I could be like myself because I truly do have a toddler. I have a two year old and I'm a little bit of both. I can be very, you know what I mean, strict and old fashioned. But I can also laugh a lot of things up off because I feel like you kind of have to as a parent. You know what I mean? Yes. You have to guide them. At the same time, some of the stuff they do is really funny and sometimes we have to laugh for ourselves because we're like at our highest stress point. So I have to laugh and just get a kick out of stuff. So I feel like the true me is a mixture of both and I wish I could give that in my social media. Like that's what I would love to give. I think I've posted stuff where, you know, I have my kids that are like literally dancing outside of the tub and that's literally what it is. It's like to get them dressed and ready to go to sleep. One goes to sleep, the other plays in the crib. So it's like giving just a mixture. I don't, I don't want to be pinned to one, you know what I mean?
- [12:47]
Because I want you to stay authentic to you. But I want us to kind of come up with some content because what's going to start now is what goes viral is going to hook. It's like you're fishing. So what goes viral is going to hook them in and then they are going to stay for the other content. So I was trying to find, there was this like hilarious, like have you seen any of the content where like the stay at home moms that are like, my kid wanted a juice box so then, like, three and a half hours later, they, like, made a juice box from scratch.
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Yes, I know of one particular person.
- [13:18]
And so. And like, for example, this is like when everyone's posting about their 24 hours, but I'm just, you know, trying to survive. Like, this is one of my friends, and she went viral for this. She probably saw something like this did it, and it actually went pretty viral for her. So I think what I want you to do is you might want to just start saving, like, saving content. And even in your for you page or whatever, like, your scroll is, because it'll show you content that you're attracted to. You're a mom, you are your customer. So start to save it and then think, what of this feels like? I want to put it out there. So is it parenting? You know, tips like, this is like three books every parent should read. Well, if he went viral with that, you could do your own three books every parent should read.
- [14:00]
Right?
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Okay. And then, like, let's say this is Daniel Klarin, who's a coach, but, like, he's talking about it. It was a random thing that he's doing. And, you know, you could see, like, how many likes. And you can do something like that because that's something that moms are going to share with each other. What we want is we want them to believe and know, like, and trust you so that they're going to be like, you know, whatever. This one was hilarious. They imitate Ariana and Cynthia from Wicked. But let's just pretend you found this and you're like, oh, I think this could go. Because this could be like, my kid, when I tell her to go to sleep at night, but she won't go to sleep without me. Right. If that felt like something that was connected to you or because you do PJs, you could be serious about it. And you can be like, ways for good sleep habits with kids. Like, what does your mom also want on social media to support her? And being a mom, which is more than the PJs.
- [14:53]
Jacqueline Snyder
Got it.
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Ashley Terrell
Okay.
- [14:54]
This is just. Without you running ads, without you, like, necessarily. I'm saying all this just because you're gonna just test and try, and none of this is set. I'm just. I'm so obsessed with this story that this is what my page is showing up with. But the other thing you do is you go on your. Your reels and anything that looks like it's gone viral. So this is this. I teared up watching my mom experience mushrooms for the first Time. Because I'd seen her this happy dream my whole life. Right. But if this is going trendy, 366,000 views. It will also viral. Go viral for you. If you take.
- [15:28]
Jacqueline Snyder
And you put.
- [15:29]
Ashley Terrell
You could remix this reel, you put it on top, and you might be like my toddler when I tell him it's time for bath time.
- [15:36]
Right? Yeah. Okay.
- [15:37]
As they're running around and, like, you're like, you know, you make up something that. And so you post something that is going viral for someone else, then make it make sense to your customer.
- [15:48]
Right.
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And it will go viral for you as well. So this is that, like, attract content, and you'll test and try and then see what does. And so if you just scroll your pages, you'll see ones that, like, did go viral enough, and it could be funny that you're like, oh, yeah, that's totally how, like, a parent feels. And then you try and use it. Does that make sense? I know I'm spending a lot of time on it.
- [16:09]
Yeah, no, no, no, it does. It definitely does. Just kind of finding what's out there, what's doing well, reminiscing it so that it works for content for my followers and my moms and aunts and things like that. Yeah.
- [16:23]
Like this one, she did 12 things I never use again in my kitchen as a cancer survivor. Okay, let's say you found this and it went viral. You might say, 10 things I'll never use in my kitchen for my kids because they cause cancer.
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Gotcha.
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So what we really want people to do is we want them to just associate parenting, taking care of their kids, and a reason they would follow you. And it won't be as clear as when we were going on to, you know, the posh peanut, because they're running a lot of money in ads. They can really establish themselves as a brand now. And it does it. They don't have the most engagement on their pieces because imagine it just being kind of almost like a billboard. Like, when we scroll, we're not interacting with any of this. We're like, oh, there's posh peanuts. Keep going. And then we're going to watch the lady on mushrooms running around. Right. So that's going to be the way that you start to attract and grow your audience. And it doesn't have to be so serious that you feel like, oh, I messed up. No, just keep going. Okay. Yeah.
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And I think I do. I struggle with, like, the whole perfection thing, because I'm like, that looks dumb. That looks weird. It doesn't make sense because I see a lot of my competitors and they're so polished. Everything looks so polished. And you know, it's just kind of intimidating as a small business. I'm like, their stuff is perfect.
- [17:41]
Well, the thing is, is that for you, like, you're not gonna grow right now online the way that they did, because if they started a long time ago, they'd either running a lot of money in ads and that's just drawing attention. They've got a more established brand. So right now you're just gonna play in this playground the way that it's asking you to play, which is really what Instagram's really doing well with right now is virality. So what we want is things that people share with other people. They're probably not going to share these PJs, but we want the PJs to be there because when they come, I don't want them to think you're just like a whole gag thing. But we want that to be there, we want this to be here. But what they're going to share is like, like I share all the time with my best friend, like the crazy mom things or whatever. Right. And so I want you to just start to find what you're attracted to. I want to be helpful or I want to be like, haha, look how funny this is. Take pieces that are viral and just shift it to like a parent and what parents would want to see and then that'll start to guide you. Okay.
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Okay.
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So that's attract bond is going to be same thing. It might just be like new collection drop. This is bond. You know, like user generated content is bond meaning if you sent me stuff and I'm unboxing it or I send you a picture of my kid wearing it, that's content. This is kind of bond content. Like fun, like behind the scenes type content and then convert. Content is either yeah, join a giveaway or Black Friday sale or new product drop or new collection or anything like that. Okay. A good person to follow glass ladder. She doesn't do what you do specifically, but I just want to give you like another example. She's a student of mine, so she does these vegan totes glass ladders. Like a girl trying to climb the glass ladder to reach the glass ceiling. So they're vegan for women who work. But now she's expanding. She's very good at creating her own content. She is kind of the face of her brand in a lot of ways. But. And you can also tell like who her Ideal customer is.
- [19:40]
Right. Right.
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To look at from. She does know how to do viral and she also does these drops. So, like, she'll tell you, new collection coming out and she'll actually, like, start to, like, tease out what's happening. So she's just really good and fun to follow from a tease perspective. So where I want to take you back to here is what I want you to do is come up with a rhythm. So how often do you think, within your capacity, you can post on social?
- [20:10]
I could make time to do it a couple of times a week.
- [20:13]
Okay. Do we think that we can do five times a week, once a day for the five days and not the weekends?
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Probably.
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Okay. Let's just pretend we do. Okay. So if we're going to do that, I want you to do to attract two bond and one convert a week. So imagine you go viral in any capacity. Even you getting a thousand views is going to be bigger than what you've been doing. Right?
- [20:36]
Right.
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Thousand views, the algorithm starts to pay attention to you. Then those people who watched it that maybe follow you or they don't follow you, your content might still show up. So if, then the next day you post a bond piece of content that might show up, which starts to get them to know, like, trust and bond with you, you then send the convert one the next day. I'm not saying they're going to buy immediately, but they might see it because they're starting. And so what happens is Instagram's like, oh, these people are interacting with your content. I'm going to keep pushing it in front of them.
- [21:05]
Jacqueline Snyder
All right, friend, let's pause here for a second because I want to pull back the curtain on what's really going on for Ashley. So she's at the very beginning of building her audience, and maybe that's where some of you are right now, too. You've got the product, you've got the website, maybe even a giveaway here and there. Right. But it still feels like crickets on social. And I know, I know, I know, I know. This can feel so discouraging. But here's the thing. It's normal. It's totally normal. So whether you're just starting out or when you're just starting out, growing your audience to get customers will feel like pushing a boulder uphill. It does. And it kind of is at different stages of your business and what you want to do. And again, like I said, those algorithms, my God, we feel like we figured it out, reels were working, and then it's like oh, no, no, no. Now we want carousels. Which is why, you know, I never love to like fully rely on social, which is why I teach you all how to grow your businesses organically. But, but I know that we have to do this. And this is a formula that I've used to like, really, really grow my business. It's something that I've taught to my students over and over and over. And it's the formula to help you make progress. And it's just a framework that you can really hold in your head. So when you're thinking, how do I do this? You're like, hey, wait, wait.
- [22:21]
Ashley Terrell
It's as easy as the ABCs.
- [22:22]
Jacqueline Snyder
And what are those? It's attract content, bond content, and convert content. Okay. It's the ABCs of content. Now this is a method I like to teach my students because it helps them get noticed on social media, it helps them go viral on social media. And they can also use this in the same way of sending emails or any bit of content that you're putting out there. And it really helps build and create trust and the whole point of awareness of your brand. Right? We're attracting the right customers. The right customers. We don't just need to grow for growing sake. We want the right people that will turn into customers and that they get that. No, like, trust, which is the bond. And when you nail both of those, the ultimate goal is that we turn these followers into customers. So Ash and I work together to create a rhythm for her social media content based around the ABCs of content. Just a super simple plan to consistently show up and start building because she wants to build a following from the ground up. And if you're listening and you think that's me too, just know it's possible. Okay, let's jump back in. Hey, friends. Okay, so I don't know if you anything like me, but sometimes it feels like my self care routine is slipping through the cracks. Because when I'm juggling and wearing all the hats in my business and doing all the things, I mean, the last thing I have to do is like really fulfill that self care routine that my daughter's talking about. She's like, mom, so listen. So when it comes to running a successful business, you can't really pour from an empty cup. And a lot of times that self care is like one of the first things to get yourself recalibrated. So that's why I want you to meet Glossy. Now Glossy is my favorite daily beauty supplement designed to transform your skin and gut health from the Inside out. And I'm actually an investor in this business because I so believe in this idea of science backed ingredients for digestion and skin. Hydration and glossy makes it really easy to look and feel your best without that whole 10 step routine in the mirror. The thing I don't actually have time for, all I have to do is simply mix a stick into my water and I'm good to go. So if you want to try this because I so believe in this business, I think it's amazing. It's done so many wonders for my skin and my gut, which are two things that I need help with. And you want to simplify your wellness and your beauty. All you have to do is click in the show notes and you can use the code Jaclyn Snyder. So it's my full name. Use the code Jacqueline Snyder and I'm hooking you up with 15% off your order. So cheers to glowing skin and a thriving business. Hey product boss. Okay, listen. If you have been selling but things feel off, like you know your product is good but your sales are just slow or they're unpredictable and you just don't know what's working. You don't know why your business isn't working the way you want it to, you feel stuck and you don't know what to do next, then I want to personally invite you to my brand new live workshop. From Stuck to sales, it's two hours and in that two hours it can change everything. We will walk through exactly why your product isn't selling the way it should. Then we're going to fix it fast. It's a workshop. We're going to do the work together in this workshop and you're going to leave with a simple, repeatable sales plan, messaging that connects and clarity about who you're really selling to. So if you've been feeling like something just isn't clicking and you want to make this easier, then my friend, this is your fix. All you have to do is head to theproductboss.com stuck that's theproductboss.com stuck and grab your seat. Now, are you unsure of what to say on social media or what to even send in your weekly emails? Well, what if creating content could be easy? Would you be looking for a shortcut to creating consistent content? Yes, consistent content. Because you know consistency is key. Well, let me tell you, you are not alone when you feel like you're struggling on what to post or what to write in emails. And we know that you have that product part of your business down. But as you're listening to this podcast, you probably already know that to get more people to your products, to buy your products, you need to create great content. Oh, I know. I see. I keep saying content, and that's the dreaded C word. And we can't tell you how many product bosses tell us that they want to create great content for their audience and their customers, but they don't know what to say, or they are so busy they can't find the time, or they really, really, really don't want to be the face of their brand. Well, no worries, because that's exactly why we created a year of content. It is your short cut to creating consistent content that resonates with your audience and brings more loyal customers who can't wait to buy your products. If you want to see how easy this is and how easy it is to create content for your audience and your customers, head to www.ayearofcontent.com.
- [29:33]
Ashley Terrell
So the problem isn't the product, the problem's not the price, and the problem's really not the photos. The problem is that you don't have the brand awareness. There's not enough people. Do you have an email list?
- [29:43]
I do. I do have an email list. I have about 25 people on it. And most of them, to be honest, are probably family and friends. What else was I going to ask? I was going to ask if ads are even worth it. You know, I obviously do a little bit of research in various places, listen to different people and their thoughts on it. And some have said it's worth it, you know, but you have to put a lot of money into it for it to be worth it. Some have said you need to build your organic audience first in order for it to even be effective. So just kind of curious, is it worth it? Since I'm not getting the organic traffic to my page.
- [30:20]
Yeah, it is the fastest way to grow. You have a product that isn't super cheap, meaning, like the average order value could help compensate for the lead because you pay for the lead, right? So if it's 35 bucks, but it costs you $25 to acquire that lead and they only buy it for 35, then you're only making $10. The goal then would be like, either we need them to come back and buy again or they buy more. They add more to their cart because you're paying for lead acquisition. But it is the fastest way. It just depends on if you have a budget. So, like, if I were to say it could cost you $2,000 a month to pay for the ads team and then they would want 2000 ish dollars a month to play with to start like to run ads. Would that be within your budget or not really?
- [31:07]
Probably. I probably can make work. I mean I do outside of this I have a 9 to 5, so I have to, luckily I have, you know, some flexibility. I work in cyber security so I work remote. But I spent a lot of, you know, time trying to make this work because I do want to walk away one day, you know what I mean? Like I love it but I would love to walk away and just focus on my baby saints than Ivy. But you know, just, it's taking time and I'm trying to figure out what's the right direction to go.
- [31:40]
I don't really want, I mean you're in tech so you could learn how to do your own ads.
- [31:47]
Jacqueline Snyder
Now that we've helped Ashley understand how to grow her audience, who her customer is, how to fix this whole part right here, then I know that she's going to be set up better for the road to success. Because we can't sell to everyone. And now this is where the magic really happens. When we start to define who Ashley is talking to and how she wants to show up for them. This is the thing, this is how we go from stuck to selling. This is how we go from stuck to people finding us and being discoverable. Because the truth is, is Ashley's pajamas are beautiful and the mission behind them is powerful. But right now what's missing is that clear connection between the brand and the customer. You gotta know your customer. We've got to build the product for your customer. We've got to build the brand for your customer. And then we got to build that bridge between the two. It's not about being just another pajama company. It's about sharing why these pajamas exist, why they matter to your ideal customer, why they're for them. Exactly. And how to really meet them where they're at. Like are we solving a need, a problem? Isn't an identity thing where they want to feel seen, which is a hundred percent what it is here. Right? It's feeling represented. It's the feeling, it's the way that the customer feels when they interact with your product, when they buy your product, when they discover your product. And so for Ashley, that means leaning into her story. It means sharing the heart centered reason behind her designs. Like why she wanted her daughter to see a brown skinned ballerina on her pajamas or why representation matters so much. To her as a mom and as it should, let me tell you. I know that sounds funny. I'm half Middle Eastern. I am a first generation American. And growing up in Los Angeles, you know, we know it's like, I just, I didn't know what makeup to wear. I didn't know how to dye my hair. You know, I couldn't get more blonde because I was a brunette. And I'll tell you, the Kardashians, yes, I know I'm bringing them up again, but they were the first people that, you know, they're Armenian. And I was like, oh, I kind of can see how I can wear makeup and how I can dye my hair and I can do things because there was representation outside of what was typical. And everybody wants to see their representation and they want it to matter. And so for her, it means getting really specific about her ideal customer. You know, it's about this busy mom who is not only looking for soft, high quality, easy care pajamas, which is great, it's great about the product, but the true thing is how it feels, how not texturally, but how it makes the customer feel, how the mom feels that it feels special to her, that it's meaningful for her and her children. It's not just another pair of pajamas, but it's one that celebrates culture, identity and family. Can you see here how when we start to define her brand and make this connection and we're really leaning into the customer centered business, how it starts to make her pajamas so much more than just pajamas. This is where building a brand is important. And it comes in. This is because you are going to connect. It's this, this invisible bridge between your product and your customer because we're speaking in their language and we're speaking to things that matter most to them. And when we do that, that's when the connection happens. And that connection, that connection is what leads to conversion. It's what leads to sales.
- [35:11]
Ashley Terrell
So your ideal customer is a mom looking for convenience. And your price point is not Hannah Anderson price. It's like you're at a good price point that's competitive with other people in your market. So we really have to figure out what is your brand, how do you stand out in the market, why your stuff? So what did you see that was lacking that you decided that you were going to come out with pjs, since there's so many other pajama companies?
- [35:37]
For me is, I actually wanted to. This was my first collection. But the vision I had for it was to allow my culture and things that I've experienced to bring that to the forefront of my brand. So being able to use little and I haven't found this, and this is probably the problem, but being able to. I could see, like doing prints that had, you know, the African American Santa Claus on them, or being able to have the prints where I have little ballerinas, but they're brown skinned girl ballerinas, you know. And I think that's where it kind of came from is I remember getting my daughter pajamas. And you know, no offense, but we're looking at pajamas for Santa and Santa's like, you know, doesn't look like I.
- [36:23]
Don'T even get the Jewish pajamas. So don't even worry. We couldn't enter.
- [36:27]
I'm like, well, why don't they have, you know, a brown skin Santa? Like, what's wrong with that? You know? And that was kind of the triggering thing for me. And I was like, I want to do something about that. But it's also very hard to find illustrators that are kind of good with that, which has been my struggle. But that is like the end goal is I would love to be able to bring more of my culture, things that are relatable to my children into fabrics and clothes that they get to wear.
- [36:56]
Okay. I love that so much. This season, Michaels, I don't know if you saw it, but Michaels had a lot of black Santas. Did you see that? Like, no.
- [37:06]
Like Michael's.
- [37:08]
Yeah, Whole sections of it. I think it was a little, not so much in home goods, but Michael's, I was like, oh, you guys are like, doing it, you know, like the standup ones, like everyone. Or even nutcrackers. So I was like, huh? Like, because I hadn't seen it. It wasn't in Target. Like, I hadn't seen it anywhere. So I like that and I like it so much better than you competing with all the PJ companies. And you're right, they're very like white leaning that Instagram is my daughter. Whenever I pull out the stand, like, I'm going to be a Utah mom. Like, I'm not. I'm so far from a Utah mom. But like my joke.
- [37:41]
Jacqueline Snyder
So.
- [37:41]
Ashley Terrell
And I agree because, like, I also feel excluded culturally. A lot of times when it comes to the holidays and things like that, it's like. So luckily people started making, you know, some Hanukkah pajamas. So I see that right now with the 500 units, you can't do it yet, but then that's what I want you to do. I want you to then show more representation of the kids that you want to serve and the families you want to serve. So right now, your site is so cute, and it looks like some of the kids are like. I don't know if they're Asian or.
- [38:10]
Yeah, they are.
- [38:11]
Yeah. And adorable. But we might need to go just a little bit more extreme where they, like, they don't look like they could be, like, mixed. Does that make sense? Like, yeah. I want you to lean in so that you feel like you're being seen. That's what I want you to do. I want you to lean in, like, the same way with, like, pattern with Tracee Ellis Ross, her hair brand. I've started buying it because I do technically have curly hair, but. But she made it for black hair, and then she'll show it curl kink. You know, she has, like, the different levels of it.
- [38:41]
Right.
- [38:41]
And so I'm actually like, she's not making it for me. But I'm like, well, nobody really makes curly hair stuff that works. So let me try her stuff. But she's leaning in. She doesn't have white models of curly hair. Right. Maybe they're mixed, but, like, they have the hair that. She's trying to sell the product as a solution. So I want you to kind of, like, I'm not saying redo your website or any or your photos, but maybe even in the social media, you post the remixes. We're not posting white families to, you know, like, white mom, like, blonde moms. Like, we're not doing that.
- [39:15]
Right, Agreed. Yeah.
- [39:17]
Share stuff that you feel like you're being seen and your family is like. You see the representation that you're looking for. Right.
- [39:24]
I gotcha.
- [39:25]
Yeah. That's gonna hook. It's okay to repel, and I say repel meaning, like, you don't need to bring everyone in. They all. Everybody has something else. And I might still think this is adorable and come in same with, like, pattern. Right. But you're really trying to pull in your ideal customer because that's where you saw the gap in the market. And if you try and wash it out, then you're not going to stand out. So let's lean heavily in and pull that in.
- [39:50]
Okay.
- [39:51]
Ashley, so great working with you today. If people want to follow you on social media, buy from you and support you, where can they do that?
- [39:58]
They can do so on Instagram at Saints X ivy, also on TikTok with the same handle. And we're coming to Twitter or X pretty soon as well.
- [40:09]
Awesome. And then it's scenes and Ivy.com, right?
- [40:12]
Yes, it is.
- [40:13]
Okay, awesome. It's a great website. So we'll drop all those links in the show notes, and everyone make sure to support Ashley and her new beautiful business.
- [40:21]
Thank you.
- [40:23]
Jacqueline Snyder
All right, product bosses, that's a wrap on today's coaching session with Ashley. And I want to take a moment, just a quick moment, to reflect on what we covered, because I know so many of you are in a similar place. Listen, I know it's easy to feel like your sales aren't where you want them to be. Something must be wrong with this product. The pricing, the photos, the website we're looking at, all that. But what Ashley and I uncovered today, and what I want to remind you is that sometimes the real issue isn't any of those things. I know. It's not about the product. It's about the person that we're selling it to. It's about the customer. And it's about getting that right customer, that one customer, that ideal customer, to know that we actually exist. Awareness comes first, connection comes first, and sales come later. But here's the good news. Awareness is something that you can build. It's something that we can do. We can do it together. It doesn't happen overnight unless somehow you've gone viral or something massive happens.
- [41:23]
Ashley Terrell
But.
- [41:23]
Jacqueline Snyder
But typically, it will happen when you show up consistently with the right plan. When you focus on attracting your ideal customers, when you bond with them, you're marketing to them. And marketing messaging, that makes so much sense. You've built this brand. And then after all that work happens. Remember, I know some of you are like, I grew up on the Internet and I never dated anyone other than swiping right or swiping left on an app. But back in my day, we'd go to a bar or we'd get introduced to someone. And, like, you see, I'm just thinking, like, I see a cute guy across the room and it's like, hey, cute guy, you're cute. Let's have a conversation. Now, if he opens his mouth and he sounds silly, then I'm like, bye, cute guy. I don't want to talk to you. But if it's like, he says the right thing, he's cute, he's nice. We're going to take it a little bit further, right? We're going to keep talking. Maybe we get a drink, maybe we exchange phone numbers. We don't get married that night. You got to think about your business in the same way, right? We gotta know that there's stages to this and there's these different connection points along the way. And when we do that along the way, that's when we start to see progression and when the needle moves. I've been with my husband for 21 years, so, you know, I think back to, like, decades ago, when people left their houses to meet people. But I just think it's such an incredible analogy because it just makes sense, right? We gotta be attracted. When they see your candle, your jewelry, your shirt, PJs, you want to attract the right customer, not everyone the right one. And then we keep taking that connection further and further. And that's what comes with knowing who you're attracting. Speaking to them through your brand voice, you know, exchanging numbers, AKA your marketing, making the right sale to them at the right time. All this is so, so, so essential. And so if you're thinking, oh, I haven't really done that, that's okay. That's why you're here. That's why I've got workshops and programs and the podcasts and all these different ways that I can support you in your entrepreneurial journey. I am here with you every step of the way. So maybe you're in those early stages, or maybe you're just feeling like these things, you know, things are just a little too quiet. And I want you to hear this from me right now and directly, my friend. Don't give up. Keep showing up. Stay consistent, because your audience will grow, your ideal customer, and customers are out there, and what you're doing matters. So thank you so much for listening today, for spending your time with me. Your time is so valuable. So thank you so much for being here and listening to the show and following the show. And if Ashley's story inspired you, I'd love for you to share this episode with another entrepreneur who needs a little encouragement on their journey, because let's share. Sharing is caring, as my kindergarten teacher once said. All right, as always, I'm cheering you on every step of the way, and I'll see you in the next one.