722. “I Had A 200K Business & Was Burned Out” Rebuilding for Profitability and Peace | Coaching Session

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Product Boss Ep. 722

“I Had A 200K Business & Was Burned Out”—Rebuilding for Profitability and Peace | Coaching Session
Host: Jacqueline Snyder
Guest: Karen Storr, CEO of Tangled Roots Herbal
Release Date: September 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, coaching-style conversation between host Jacqueline Snyder and Karen Storr, founder of Tangled Roots Herbal. Karen discusses her journey of building a $200,000/year brick-and-mortar business, reaching a point of burnout, courageously shutting down her retail store, and starting over with a leaner, online-focused model. The discussion centers on themes of purpose-driven rebuilding, mindset shifts, embracing messiness, and actionable strategies for female product-based entrepreneurs navigating business pivots or starting anew.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recognizing and Acting on Burnout

• Karen shares her experience of building a thriving retail business but reaching a breaking point. She explains how physical and mental exhaustion forced her to rethink her methods.
• Main Insight: Burnout is not failure—it’s often a signal to change direction.
• Jacqueline: “Burnout doesn’t mean you failed...burnout is often the wake-up call your body gives you when you’ve outgrown the way you’ve been doing business.” (08:02)

2. The Courage to "Burn it Down" and Rebuild

• Karen admits she had doubts for months before closing her store but delayed action out of fear and hope things would improve.
• Karen: “To be honest with you, I made the decision a long time before I closed the store, but I was too chicken to do anything about it. I was like, ‘well, maybe just one more month.’” (07:39)
• Jacqueline frames intentional “burning down” of the business as a brave, CEO-level move rather than a sign of collapse.

3. Mindset Shifts in the Messy Middle

• The challenging "rebuild" phase is likened to emptying a closet—messy but full of opportunity for choice and clarity.
• Jacqueline: “It looks like a mess, but it’s temporary. It’s a temporary cluster of, ‘what do I want? What do I not want?’” (12:21)

4. Celebrating Achievements and Focusing on Resilience

• Despite feeling like she’s “a mess,” Karen has already made progress: increasing prices, bundling products, strengthening customer retention (51% return rate), and regaining focus.
• Jacqueline: “You’re not a mess, you’re just in rebuild...You’re resilient and you’re focused and you’re determined and you’re courageous.” (12:05)
• Importance of reframing self-doubt and acknowledging one’s own resilience during transitions.

5. Trust, Action, and The Role of Self-Doubt

• Jacqueline uses the metaphor of ziplining: sometimes you must trust the process (“the equipment”) and jump, even when scared.
• Jacqueline: “Self-doubt doesn’t show up because you’re doing something wrong. It shows up because you’re doing something brave, something different.” (15:55)
• Self-doubt often signals growth and bravery, not incompetence.

6. Investing in Yourself & The Value of Support

• The conversation discusses the significance of investing in coaching, programs, or even small challenges as acts of self-care and business growth.
• Karen: “Part of why I closed the store was to invest in myself. And that included a lot of self-care...but self-care, to me, is also learning and applying.” (16:26)
• Jacqueline points out that paid commitments, even minor ones, often increase seriousness and follow-through in business development.

7. Pivoting, Focus, and the Excitement of New Beginnings

• Now operating online, Karen expresses both uncertainty and newfound excitement, appreciating the ability to focus deeply and rethink business direction.
• Karen: “I am definitely in that pivoting phase and it’s kind of exciting. It’s a little scary, but I love this—digging in and focusing and doing the work.” (19:57)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:26 | Jacqueline | “Only 12% of women-owned businesses make it past $100,000. Really?...That is crazy huge.” | | 08:02 | Jacqueline | “Burnout doesn’t mean you failed...It’s leadership.” | | 07:39 | Karen | “I made the decision a long time before I closed the store, but I was too chicken to do anything about it.” | | 12:05 | Jacqueline | “You’re not a mess, you’re just in rebuild.” | | 15:55 | Jacqueline | “Self-doubt doesn’t show up because you’re doing something wrong...it’s just a sign that you’re growing.” | | 16:26 | Karen | “Part of why I closed the store was to invest in myself...self-care to me is also learning and applying.” | | 19:57 | Karen | “I am definitely in that pivoting phase and it’s kind of exciting. It’s a little scary, but I love this—digging in and focusing and doing the work.” |

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• 00:00–02:00: Introduction of Karen and episode focus on burnout and rebuilding.
• 03:40–05:25: Karen’s achievements, revenue trajectory, and struggle with feeling “a mess.”
• 06:14–08:02: Reflection on the cost of burnout and the importance of sustainable business.
• 08:02–11:01: The mindset shift from quitting vs. intentional change; leadership in tough decisions.
• 12:05–13:38: The analogy of “organizing your closet”—embracing the temporary chaos of rebuilding.
• 15:55–16:51: The role of self-doubt in daring changes; leap-of-faith metaphor.
• 16:26–18:55: Investing in learning as self-care and a commitment to business growth.
• 19:57–20:20: Karen on embracing the pivot and her renewed energy for online growth.

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Resources & Where to Find Karen

• Website: Tangled Roots Herbal
• Pinterest & Facebook: @TangledRootsHerbal

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Episode Takeaways

• Burnout is a signal, not a failure. Listen to your body and learn to pivot when needed.
• Bravery lies in making hard decisions—closing, changing, or downsizing does not erase your achievements.
• Self-investment and focus are keys to regenerating a business with both purpose and sustainability.
• Allow messiness. Growth often starts from disarray and uncertainty.
• Self-doubt is a normal companion to change; it signals growth, not disaster.

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This episode is particularly powerful for product-based entrepreneurs confronting change, facing burnout, or caught in the messy beginnings of a new chapter. Jacqueline Snyder’s compassionate, strategic coaching provides actionable encouragement for anyone looking to rebuild both their business and their peace.

Transcript

[A]

So it's who you are that you're resilient and you're focused and you're determined and you're courageous. And now it gets to be what do you need to realize you're not a mess, you're just in rebuild. It's kind of like when you decide you're going to organize your closet and everything needs to come out.

[B]

You're just throwing things everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. And you're like, oh my God, I have to put this all back.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder, and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses and even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists, or food and beverage businesses, I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business? And what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers? And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dream no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strategy and support, and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. Hey, hey, product bosses. Today I'm bringing you a powerful conversation with Karen Storr of Tangled Roots Herbal. Now she is the CEO of a company where herbs meet everyday life with practical remedies and soul soothing teas. Karen built an incredible $200,000 business with a physical retail store. But when it began taking a toll on her health and her joy, she made a bold move. She shut it all down and shipped it online. Now she's in the messy middle, rebuilding from scratch, figuring out how to grow her online sales, and learning how to trust herself again. So if you've ever felt like you were starting over or questioning whether you're doing it right, this episode is for you. We're diving into burnout, bravery, and how to rebuild with purpose. So if you're ready, let's jump in. Tangled Roots Herbal.

[B]

That's me.

[A]

Alrighty. So current state of your business sounds like you've been shifting, moving things around. You close the company, but you have a pretty great business in terms of the revenue that you've been bringing in. So it sounds like your business is up and running.

[B]

It's up and running. So I did. I closed my retail store and transitioned to online only, which has been a challenge, to say the least.

[A]

True.

[B]

Even though I had been doing this work, you know, in the five, six years that I had owned the retail store, it's a whole different business.

[A]

Yeah. So just to ask you a quick question, Clarity. When you were presented with the option of joining the sales accelerator and you did not join, what was missing for you in that. That you felt like maybe this wasn't the right time for it?

[B]

Honestly, it is literally finances. That was literally the only reason why I'd be in it. If it weren't for that. If this was a year ago and I had the revenue that I had then, now I'd be in. All in.

[A]

Okay. So it seemed like it was. It was the right fit. But you're just. Because you shut down the store and you're trying to sell online, but online right now you're selling a thousand dollars a month.

[B]

Yeah. Between one to 2,000amonth.

[A]

Okay. That's still really good for kind of feeling like that engine doesn't work. It's just like we get to dig in and say, like, what's working? What doesn't work? You know, So I get it. I mean, it looks like. So what revenue did you end at last year with the store?

[B]

I was at 190 last year.

[A]

Okay, so $200,000 business.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So when I asked you what your struggles are, one, you said, where do you start when you're a mess?

[B]

So it's. Yes, but I listened to you during the boot camp, and so what have I done? I increased my prices. I have. I even actually wrote it down so I would know what I was talking about. I've been crafting bundles and sets, taking the products that I already have and packaging them in different ways. I've been working on retention. Currently, my returning customer rate is 51%. So I've been. I put my head down, and that's what I've been working on.

[A]

Okay, so when was that? In July?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or August. July. Okay. It's September. We're recording this. It's two months. And you had shut down the. You had shut down the shop in April. So I love that you're like, I'm a mess. But look at all these things that I did that are amazing. Off of five days in a boot camp that was virtually free. Right. Like a challenge that was like, okay, what can I get done? So putting your head down and all that. What I want to Start with is kind of reminding you who you are, reminding you that you're not a mess. Letting you know, like, where you are right now is that where you are right now is perfectly here for you. Like, actually, I coached someone earlier today and she said things felt like they were really hard, and she just said to herself, what do I need to learn? Like, what am I learning in this moment? And so sometimes when things feel like they're crashing down or, you know, you feel like, oh, I feel like I'm like nearly bankrupt or like, I did this thing and I was you, my friend, have you had a $200,000 business? Which is no easy feat. Only 12% of women owned businesses make it past $100,000. Really? Yeah.

[B]

I had no idea.

[A]

Exactly right. That is crazy huge in terms of just what you've created. And yeah, there was something that didn't feel like it fit. So you're in a rebirth stage. You're in a. I'm going to burn it down and I'm going to rebuild this. Because your nervous system, your bank account, your margins, you're like, I just can't do it like this anymore. So, yeah, you're a bit in a founder stage. Right. It's hard to go from these numbers back down to, you know, from that's like 16, 15, $16,000 months to 1 to $2,000 months. It might feel like you're failing, but I want you to remember that these are the choices you made because something was no longer working. So it's like the ownership. What do I get to do? Who do I get to be? What do I get to create with this?

[B]

Absolutely, 1,000%. And it's the reason why I did this.

[A]

Yeah. So let's dig into that. Right. Like when you shut down the store, stepping into online, growing your business in this way, what was your vision like? What were you like? I'm done with this part of my life, and this is what I visioned for me moving forward. What was that for you?

[B]

It literally was. I can't. I was exhausted. I was mentally and physically exhausted. And it was actually impacting my health to a huge degree. And so it was a matter of making that choice to let go of all of that stress and anxiety and to maybe have a little bit more control and also to have a business that served not just my community, but it served me. And it was to have something that was not going to be 50, 60, 70 hours a week, that it might be 30, 40 hours a week, something along those lines, and home closer to home, that I could cut down on expenses as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So you saw that and you're like, this is not sustainable. This isn't actually what I want. Maybe it was something you wanted at some point and you were super driven and then you said, this isn't what I want. And the brave thing that you did was make a choice to say, this is no longer working for me.

[B]

Yeah, that was huge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To be honest with you, I made the decision a long time before I closed the store, but I was too chicken to do anything about it. I was like, well, maybe just one more month. One more month, it'll turn around, you know, it'll change. I'll do something different. I'll do. No, if I had done it back then, I think it would have been a whole different ball game.

[A]

Burnout doesn't mean you failed. Let's just be clear about that. Burnout is often the wake up call your body gives you when you've outgrown the way you've been doing business. So for Karen, she built a thriving six figure retail business. But behind the scenes, it was taking a toll. Emotionally, physically, energetically. And here's what I want you to hear. Choosing to walk away from something that's no longer aligned is not quitting. It's leadership. When you're in it, when you're exhausted and you're overwhelmed and your nervous system is just screaming at you to slow down, it can feel like giving up. I know, I've been there before. But what it really is, it's giving yourself permission to do things differently. So Karen made a CEO move. She didn't burn out and she didn't collapse. She burned it down on purpose so she could build something better, something that fit her life now. And if you're feeling the weight of burnout, I want you to ask yourself, is this sustainable? Is this still serving me? Because sometimes the bravest thing you can do instead of pushing through it, is stopping and starting over and stepping back in. And if you think of yourself as like the source energy, right? Like you're the sun to the universe, the planet, the. Everything grows and lives because of you. Like your source, not. Not dependent on you and everything you do, but just being, then of course things are going to reflect that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If it's a cloudy day and we can't see the sun and the sun is like hiding behind the clouds, then that's the day that it is. And when it's a bright, shiny day, it's that. And so for you, it's like trusting your gut and making the change, that's hard. P.S. like, this is not an easy thing. So again, what do I need to learn? What did you need to learn in that time? But I've coached several people who have had really big businesses, and then whether it was on purpose or not, have burnt it down to the ground without realizing they were. And then we reflect on it and we say, okay, because I'm coaching someone else right now. Same thing. She had a huge business on Etsy. Million dollar business. Now it feels really hard. And Etsy, slow down. Being reliant on an algorithm like that is like being reliant on social media. It's hard. And so she's like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? But then when we talked about when she was the million dollar business, she's like, I was miserable. I looked miserable. I was. I was so unhealthy. And it's like, oh, you burned it down because it was not sustainable. So your subconscious is the thing that kind of shifted it for you. So who do you get to be now that we get to be in this rebirth, regrowth time? What's possible? And so she switched out of that feeling of, like, victim to circumstance and ownership of her future. And that's what I think is so important for people to realize that we get to own our future. Like, the past is the past is the past. And. And we get to check in and say, what, like, one did the universe to God send me a lesson in this. Yes. Thank you for these speed bumps and these roadblocks so that I get to learn through it so I don't do this again.

[B]

I have no regrets for closing the store. None.

[A]

Yeah, none.

[B]

I'm a little scared about my future. Won't lie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I have no regrets about doing it.

[A]

Yeah. And being scared about your future is just because you don't know yet how or you don't know what's to come because it's a different playground. The same way that when you opened your store, you did you fully know how you were going to open it and run it, or did you just figure it out as you were going?

[B]

I actually bought it.

[A]

Oh. So it was operating? It was already.

[B]

But I had a huge learning curve. Huge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was.

[A]

But you were excited about learning.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what I want you to do is step into this side of being like, oh, wow, Karen, you're making one to $2,000 a month without massive social media, without you Know all these things like operating so well that. And you're still doing well. You have a $24,000 business. Okay. Yeah. Very different than the 290. But there are people who will listen to the podcast and be like, oh, my gosh, I wish I could turn that around that fast. So it's who you are, that you're resilient and you're focused and you're determined and you're courageous. And now it gets to be what do you need to realize you're not a mess, you're just in rebuild. It's kind of like when you decide you're going to organize your closet and everything needs to come out.

[B]

You're just throwing things everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. And you're like, oh, my God, I have to put this all back.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, and so it looks like a mess, but it's temporary. It's a temporary cluster of what do I want? What do I not want? What do I get to throw away? What do I get to keep? What do I get to cherish? Right. All this. You may look at me like, I don't need half of this. This is nothing that I need or want anymore. Get rid of it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So I want you to look at it like from this perspective of you pulled everything out of the closet. You're building this thing in this way that you want to build it and then you get to choose now, what do I want? How do I want to build it? Well, how will it feel good in my body and in my nervous system to, you know, for you, it's like, how do you focus and fix what you're already doing, which you just told me you did through a five day challenge bootcamp with me. Right. Yeah. And then you've started to work in that way and it's like focus and discipline. But the other place that you stopped was seeing I financially can't afford it and I'm not going to get help, I'm not going to get direction, I'm not going to invest in myself. Because you're still in that version of you that feels like it's not possible or like it feels too hard or it's self doubt. It's not the program, it's the self doubt that's going to make it so much harder to move at the speed in which you can move.

[B]

And I am not going to. I won't argue with you on that. I honestly, I feel it.

[A]

So what would it have looked like if you had made a different decision?

[B]

I think I'd have a Lot more confidence about where I was going. And I think that there'd also be some revelations. Like I had no idea that I could do this. Honestly, I do. I think that there would be some revelations.

[A]

Yeah. So the very first time I went ziplining was in Costa Rica. And I'm like, you want me to do what? Like, once they got us up there and someone told me like, when you're really nervous or scared, if you say I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm excited. It's the same thing in your body, the same like chemical reaction. But your brain, instead of shutting down and getting scared, goes, all right, I'm excited. What do I get to do with that? So I have a friend, Australian, by the way, so you would think she's just like, I always think like, I need to be with Alaskans or Australians at the end of the, at the end of the world because they're going to know how to survive off the land, so. Cause my LA New York self will not. So anyways, but so we get up there and all of a sudden she's gripping the side of the rock and she's like, she can't do it. And she's so scared. Even though I'm like, she's done so many amazing things in her life and she does not want to zipline off this, off this thing. So it's sort of like, all right, let's go. Like let's be excited. And the leader was like, trust the equipment. You got the helmet on, all of this. You just have to take a leap off the ledge and trust the equipment. Which for a lot of us that are control freaks or controllers of our destiny or like, what do you mean trust the equipment? Like I like, like we think that we have anything to do with, you know, it's like, well, you know, if I just say this prayer, we're gonna, you know, it's like just trust the equipment. And that trust is what? That blind leap of faith that like standing on the edge, being hooked to the zipline, holding on and jumping off and be like, I'm just gonna trust it and I'm gonna go. It's like the ride is awesome. It's wild, it's amazing. You get to the other side and like I did that self doubt doesn't show up because you're doing something wrong. No, it shows up because you're doing something brave, something different. And here's the tricky part. It doesn't always sound like fear. Sometimes it sounds like hesitation, sometimes like overthinking. Sometimes, like waiting for the perfect plan before you make your next move. So Karen kept saying, I feel like a mess, when in reality, she'd already made a bold and powerful decision. She had already taken action. But listen, self doubt will convince you that progress doesn't count unless it's perfect. So if you're feeling unsure right now, questioning whether you're doing enough or doing it right, I want you to just take a pause and take a breath. Because self doubt isn't proof that you're not capable. It's just a sign that you're growing. And you don't need to have it all figured out to move forward. Right. You just need to show up. Right. Show up as that version of yourself that's willing to do it and keep at it.

[B]

I think that you said something that really kind of just clicked with me as that investment in myself, and it's part of why I closed the store, was to invest in myself. And that included a lot of self care and things like that. But self care, to me is also learning and applying. So that makes a lot of sense.

[A]

Yeah. And so that's just where, you know, when I just want to reflect back to you that it doesn't matter whether you join a program with me or not, or you just listen to the podcast or you come to, like, the free bootcamps or the, you know, the cheaper challenges. Well, I don't even know. $27 or less. Right. Like, you join something like that. You know, it's not that. And a lot of times, like, you know, I will. I'll charge for boot camp because I used to do them for free all the time, and people don't show up. They just don't. And all of a sudden we are, you know, it's like, I've done 10, $15,000 or, sorry, 10 to 15,000 people in a group, and 6, 700 people out of the 15,000 people that have registered will actually show up, which is bonkers.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They wanted it. Yeah, they said they wanted it, but then where were they?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they're still going to continue on with the reasons why things aren't working, why things aren't flowing. So. So when people pay even as low as, like, 27 bucks for something, and I'll tell you, even on Those, still only 60% of the people show up.

[B]

Wow, that's amazing to me.

[A]

Yeah, like 40% of the people are okay with putting in money and not doing anything with it, which it doesn't matter. It could be a $2,000 and people won't do it. It could be $20,000 and people won't do it. That's why, like if you look at masterminds or group coaching programs or things like that, sometimes the numbers are stretchy. But that's because usually if it's free, they don't pay attention. Usually if it's mismatched, like if they have to manage it themselves, they're not going to do it. And so it's like, what when you know, if I'm going to run a mastermind for million dollar businesses, my mastermind's going to be $30,000 a year. Because 30,000 will feel stretchier to them.

[B]

Yes, understood.

[A]

Than if it was like $1500 and they're like, meh, I'm fine with that. Right. And I know these numbers sound crazy, but it's just the way that things work for you, really. It's like whatever you choose to do moving forward, it's really seeing what does it look like when you put your head down. And I don't. I'm not going to give up on you. We're not. You're not going bankrupt. You're going to problem solve for it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're so smart, you're so capable. You just feel behind the ball.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I've been doing this stuff, I've been working on this. You know, I've worked with other groups and things like that, but I feel like I followed the steps, I've put my head down, I've done the work. Not necessarily to the extent I am now. When you have both an online and a brick and mortar, it's really hard to focus and know exactly where or know what the data is showing. Because when I used the data to make the decision to close the store, it was a combination of everything. So the data was actually flawed and not correct. So one of the challenges is I didn't have a lot of focus. I now have time to focus exclusively on this new business as I pivot from what I had been where it was much more metaphysical and apothecary and things like that to just. I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet. I am definitely in that pivoting phase and it's kind of exciting. It's a little scary, but I love this. Digging in and focusing and doing the work.

[A]

How can people buy from you, support you, follow you get all this amazingness.

[B]

All my stars, they can find me@tangledroots herbal.com find me on Pinterest tangled rootsherbal and Facebook tangled Roots Herbal as well.

[A]

Product Bosses Karen's story is one so many of you will relate to. She built a successful $200,000 business. But when the way she was working no longer served her life, she made the brave choice to change it. I've done the exact same thing when I was growing businesses in the past and I grew Cuffs Couture and it was no longer working and people no longer need because they didn't know where they were going to put their phone. And things just got harder and harder and I realized that the market had shifted. I changed too, and I decided that I was going to shift the way I did business. So if that's you right now you might be thinking, you know what, I'm not at a point that I want to shut anything down. I'm actually at a point that I want this to grow, but I want it to grow easier. I want it to grow with a step by step system. I want support and help, especially during the holidays, especially during the busiest time of year. So if that's you, I'd love to invite you because at this point, this time this year, the doors to the Product Boss Sales Accelerator are now open. So the Product Boss Sales Accelerator helps you get in front of other people's audiences. So if you want to grow your business, whether you want to sell online, whether you want to sell on Amazon wholesale, you want to do markets, you want to get off of marketplaces like Etsy and move online, then I invite you to join the Product Boss Sales Accelerator. We're going to help you grow your business step by step without needing a following, without needing to worry about social media, and without needing ads. So the doors are open until Tuesday and I'd love to invite you in because this is the season where you deserve to get support. This is the season where you no longer have to do this alone. I want you to think about this for a really quick second because some of you are like, but it's my busy season, Jaclyn. Well, I know, you know, if you watch sports, maybe it's football season. Do you think that those players get less coaching during the busy season or do you think they get more coaching? My friend, you deserve to be supported. You deserve to walk alongside other product bosses. You deserve to have me as your business coach. So if any of this aligns, check out the Product Boss Sales Accelerator. I'll drop the link in the show notes and I hope to see you inside before the doors close. See you next time. Thank you for being here and listening all the way through the Product Boss Podcast. If you love our show and it has helped you in any way in your business, would you mind doing two things for us? Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review. Reviews help other product entrepreneurs know that this is the place to be to grow their businesses and realize that they're not alone. And we know that you all know that a five star and honest review helps you sell more products to more people. So you know that your reviews help us reach more listeners around the world. Remember, what we give is what we receive and we are all about helping each other in the Product Boss community. We are all in this together. We would be so appreciative of you if you could take the time right now to subscribe, leave a review and even share this episode on social or someone you know so we can impact more lives. And remember, subscribing means that you will get notified each time we release a new episode so you never miss a thing. You have helped us grow and climb into the top 10 of all marketing podcasts and together we can keep climbing. Thank you friends and remember there is room at the top for all of us.