735. The Visibility Strategy That Turns Scrolls Into Sales | Live Coaching Session

Summary

Episode Summary: The Visibility Strategy That Turns Scrolls Into Sales | Live Coaching Session

Podcast: The Product Boss: Business Coaching for Product-Based Female Entrepreneurs
Host: Jacqueline Snyder
Guest: Jill Barnum, founder of The Clover Exchange
Episode: 735
Date: December 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into visibility strategies for product-based female entrepreneurs with a live coaching session featuring Jill Barnum, founder of The Clover Exchange—a brand focused on bold, sarcastic, and relatable sweatshirts for women reclaiming their voices after years of people-pleasing. Jacqueline walks Jill through practical tactics for amplifying brand visibility, optimizing what's already working, and overcoming imposter syndrome as a business owner putting herself into the spotlight. The conversation is filled with actionable social media tips, mindset reframes, and examples, making it a valuable resource for product entrepreneurs striving to turn online attention into real sales.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jill’s Business and Current Strategies (02:34–05:45)

• Jill describes The Clover Exchange: Statement sweatshirts/tees for "recovering people pleasers,” with funny, bold slogans (e.g., “Absolutely Not,” “Corks Are for Quitters,” “Recovering People Pleaser”).
• Core customer: Women 35–55 "done people-pleasing" and looking to reclaim their voice and sense of humor.
• Sales split: Roughly 50/50 between Shopify and Etsy.
• Traffic drivers: Instagram, word of mouth, and micro-influencer outreach (via Social Cat)—no paid ads yet.

"It's clothing, it says it so you don't have to... every time I wear something, I get a comment." —Jill (02:43)

• Growth: Doubled revenue in a few months since joining the Sales Accelerator.
• SEO focus: Updating listings with keywords (e.g., “sarcastic, funny, gift for her”) to improve discovery.

2. Leaning into What’s Working Over Chasing Every Trend (05:45–14:24)

• Jacqueline counsels against overwhelm: Instead of adding new strategies, focus on amplifying what's already gaining traction.
• Refining descriptions and SEO: This led to more people finding Jill’s shop.
• Referrals and regular, authentic posting: Consistency trumps perfection.
• Instagram: Despite having a small following, Jill’s reels double her follower count in views, showing quality engagement.
• Content that resonates: Simple, sassy, and relatable content (“Corks Are for Quitters”) is shareable, drives engagement, and encourages word of mouth.

“Shareability is your new visibility. Repeat that content. It works.” —Jacqueline (10:49)

• Product focus: Simpler, straightforward sayings outperform highly designed/vintage styles.

3. Branding, Customer Persona, and Product Line Clarity (14:24–19:10)

• Brand voice: Jill’s customers are “classy and sassy”—women ready to show up unapologetically.
• Lean into authenticity: Her background as a lawyer adds “sophistication,” creating a multidimensional brand.
• Community-building: Product reflects the customer’s inner voice, moving from “selling” to “resonating.”

“When your product reflects your customer's inner voice, you've stopped selling and you've started resonating.” —Jacqueline (15:51)

• Limit distractions: Stop diluting focus with Irish/Midwest lines—stick to the bestsellers (sarcastic, funny slogans).

4. Content Creation and Relatability (19:10–21:00)

• Real-life moments work: Family antics, “real life” posts with kids or pets—relatable stories make content engaging and human.
• Authenticity sells: The “realness” of the Clover Exchange’s social media builds trust and connection.

“I was putting a sweatshirt on... my dog is in the background cleaning his butt. People relate to that kind of stuff.” —Jill (19:16)

5. Marketing Channels & SEO Strategy (21:00–31:48)

• Social v. Search: Only amplify what drives sales now, rather than diversifying marketing for the sake of it.
• SEO:
  • Use customer-focused keywords in product titles and descriptions (e.g., “funny sweatshirt gift” not just “cute sweatshirt”).
  • Simple blogs targeting trending search terms can lift organic discovery (“Gen X Wine Girls Trip” as example).
  • AI and AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) will change search—more mentions on other platforms = better discoverability.

“A well written product title or description... can keep attracting buyers week after week.” —Jacqueline (29:20)

• Leverage AI tools: Use ChatGPT (or similar) for keyword ideas and even blog outlines, but prompts must be clear and strategic.

6. Product Line & Brand Cohesion (31:48–35:14)

• Keep the focus: Seasonally themed items (like “Thanksgiving Up”) can fit if they stay true to the brand voice—sarcastic, bold, relatable.
• Brand signature: Consider subtle brand identifiers (e.g., a small four-leaf clover sewn/printed somewhere on each product to honor the brand name).
• Emotional selling: Customers buy for the laugh, the identity, and the sense of being seen—not just the garment.

“You're selling the vision, we're not selling the product... it makes them feel a certain way.” —Jacqueline (25:52)

7. Mindset & Imposter Syndrome (35:14–36:25)

• Separate self from brand: Clover Exchange is its own entity; Jill is its steward, not its embodiment.
• Move past imposter syndrome: Seeing the brand as distinct allows for bolder visibility and brand building.

“Separating those two personas is probably one of the best ways to get over imposter syndrome.” —Jill (35:24)

8. Actionable Takeaways and Closing Thoughts (35:35–end)

• Biggest takeaways:
  • Use models/creators who reflect the true customer.
  • Narrow product line for focus and customer resonance.
  • Follow what works and look for “breadcrumbs” of success.
• Don’t try to do all the things: Double down on what’s moving the needle, not what feels like busywork.

“You don't have to do everything. What you do need is a clear message, products that resonate, and the willingness to keep showing up even when the audience is small.” —Jacqueline (36:56)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Jacqueline:

  • “Shareability is your new visibility. Repeat that content. It works.” (10:49)
  • “When your product reflects your customer's inner voice, you've stopped selling and you've started resonating.” (15:51)
  • “A well written product title or description... can keep attracting buyers week after week.” (29:20)
  • “You're selling the vision, we're not selling the product... it makes them feel a certain way.” (25:52)

• Jill:

  • “It’s clothing, it says it so you don’t have to.” (02:43)
  • “Separating those two personas is probably one of the best ways to get over imposter syndrome.” (35:24)
  • “I was putting a sweatshirt on... my dog is in the background cleaning his butt. People relate to that kind of stuff.” (19:16)
  • “Narrowing down my product line to focus on... the voice of my brand, instead of kind of trying to be everything for everyone, just focus on my ideal customer.” (35:48)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:34: Jill introduces her business & core products
• 04:00: Discussion on traffic and platform strategy
• 06:56: What’s working—SEO and authenticity in descriptions
• 10:24: The power of shareable content
• 14:24: Branding clarity and customer persona
• 19:10: Real-life content and relatability
• 21:00: Social vs. search channels—focus on what lifts sales
• 28:01: Deep dive: SEO and using customer perspective in keywords
• 31:48: Product line, brand “signature,” emotional selling
• 35:14: Mindset, imposter syndrome, and separating self from brand
• 36:56: Key takeaway—simplify, follow momentum, and stay true to brand identity

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Final Takeaways

1. Double down on what’s working: Amplify channels and content that already generate sales and engagement—don’t chase trends if they don’t move the needle for your business.
2. Lean into shareable, relatable content: For social growth and discovery, authentic, funny, and “real life” moments outperform perfection and polish.
3. Stay true to your brand voice and core customer: Don’t dilute your product line or messaging for the sake of variety.
4. Use SEO smartly: Think like your customer and optimize everything from titles to blog posts using real search phrases.
5. Separate yourself from the brand: This reduces imposter syndrome and helps you see objectively what your audience wants.

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Where to find The Clover Exchange:

• Instagram: @thecloverexchange
• Facebook: The Clover Exchange
• Website: cloverexchangeshop.com

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Challenge from Jacqueline:

“Look at your own brand: What’s working, what’s gaining momentum, even if it’s small? How can you lean into that instead of adding more to your to do list?” (36:56)

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This episode is packed with tangible advice for product entrepreneurs seeking to turn scrolls into sales: Focus, authenticity, and clarity matter more than doing everything at once.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, hey product bosses. And welcome back to another behind the scenes coaching session. I am so excited for you to meet today's guest, Jill Barnum, the founder of the Clover Exchange. Jill's brand is all about bold, sarcastic and seriously relatable sweatshirts and tees for women who are done people pleasing and they are ready to reclaim their voice. In this episode we are going to talk through how Jill can get more eyes on her brand, how to lean into what's already working and maybe most importantly, how to how to get comfortable with being visible. Because sometimes it's not just about getting people to find you, it's about feeling confident when they do. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about now. I'm Jacqueline Snyder. I am the host of the Product Boss podcast and your mentor in growing your small product based business into a real business. So whether you sell on Etsy, Amazon, in person, online and more, our strategies work for any product anywhere you sell. Now this episode is for you. If you've ever asked why isn't more happening yet? Or if you've made progress and now you're wondering what's next. So let's dive in and help Jill build the brand that's not only going to be scroll stopping, but solo aligned. Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of product based businesses, even one of my own. And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists or food and beverage businesses. I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did they turn their ideas into successful business and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and be discovered by more customers. And this is what this show is all about. Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter how big or small. All you need is the right mindset, a little courage, strength, strategy and support and you too can be the next million dollar product boss. Let's do this. What you want to cover is SEO, how to reach more people and getting over imposter syndrome. So two kind of like one's like how do I get people to find me and help me with my brain?

[B]

Right. I want to be comfortable with people finding me.

[A]

Right. Okay. Ooh. Yeah, I like that. Okay, we are going to dive into all of this. So kind of getting started in this, I want you to just tell me a little bit more about your business. So what do you sell, what your best sellers are and where you're currently selling?

[B]

So I have a statement sweatshirt and tea brand. It's called the Clover Exchange. I, I say it's for the recovering people pleaser. It's a lot of funny, sarcastic old statements. Like one of my best sellers is Absolutely not Corks are for Quitters has been a huge seller lately. Hard pass. Like just kind of funny statements. I'd homebody. I actually do have one that says recovering people pleaser. So basically it's for women, you know, 35ish to 55ish that are kind of have always put other people first, maybe their family or parents or whoever, and now kind of want to back away and say I'm done. People pleasing. I kind of want to take a little time for myself. So it's clothing, it says it so you don't have to. So it's kind of every time I wear something I get a comment. People are like, you know, people get a little smile on their face or they like it or oh my gosh, where did you get that? So I feel like I have a good product and I feel like it resonates with a lot of people. It's just, you know, how to get more people to find me is kind of my struggle. I'm on, I have my own Shopify website and I am also on Etsy and I would say it's about 50, 50 with my sales.

[A]

Okay, amazing. So Shopify and Etsy, 50 50, how are we getting people to the website to buy from you?

[B]

On Shopify, I am mostly using Instagram or word of mouth. I have not done any paid ads. I just started with Social Cat. So I'm going to see how that pans out with the micro influencers. I send them a sweatshirt and they put it on their stories and make a post. So kind of trying to reach other people's audience like you teach. So yeah, that's mostly how I'm doing it. I have not ventured into any ads, although it's definitely something on the horizon I think for me.

[A]

Okay, great. And size of where you are now to where you want to be in terms of revenue and sales.

[B]

Okay. So I just started last year in 2024. So I guess my year to date in 2025, I just got on Etsy last November. I'm at about, I'd say 10 or 12,000. Not awesome, but growing well when you.

[A]

Filled out the form, you were at 6,600.

[B]

So, yes, I. Yes, I felt some.

[A]

Yeah, doubling. Let's just put it this way. So you joined in July in the sales accelerator.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's October. Not sure when you filled out that form, but somewhere between July and October, you've doubled what you made this year.

[B]

Yes. You know, Etsy's changing its algorithm and they want you to change your titles. And there's all this SEO stuff. I've definitely done more. More SEO training, and I feel like my keywords. I do feel like more people are finding me. I started a newsletter, and I have, you know, definitely people I know on it, but I would say at least 30 to 40 people have come in through Instagram. It's a slow process, but yes, definitely in the last couple of months, it's been really good. Better than it has been.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we can talk about the past or we can talk about what. What you've been doing right now, because again, to make another 6,000 or so, let's say 5,001. August, September, October. So about three months or so is a huge lift. So you're saying that Etsy and the algorithm and all the things which are kind of dependent on another platform, but what changes do you think that you've made? Because what I want to do is I want to refocus you on the idea of success. Leaves clues. So sometimes we're always looking at more things to do, more things to add, instead of what's actually started to work. And the overwhelm comes with, well, okay, like, there's this, but then I gotta do this, and I gotta do this, and it's like, actually not necessary. If you just shared these results with me, even if you were, you know, at $3,000, like, it's still. It's still more than what you. What you were generating on average. Because I think at some point you said Your average was $300 a month. Average revenue goal. We're blowing past that. Mm. So tell me what you've done that's working for you. Things that you've done that are working for you, that are different than you were. Were doing before they're doing now that you're like, oh, I can see measurable results from that.

[B]

So one thing I think I've done is change a lot of my descriptions on the website and on Etsy. Just gotten way more keyword savvy, including that in, you know, in the descriptions and the titles. I would have, like, absolutely not sweatshirt, but now it says like, sarcastic, funny, absolutely not gift for her. You know, like, I really, I feel like I'm getting that and putting that in the descriptions and I think that's helping people find me. I've also gotten referrals, which I know really isn't anything I did, but I've gotten some big custom orders from people that know of me, so that's been helpful too. I've also, I guess I've gotten more regular on social media. I don't love it, but I'm just, I'm doing the whole done is better than perfect. So instead of spending two hours on a post and like, you know what, just post consistently. Just keep it up so people see it. I feel like in the beginning I felt like it was going to be so annoying to people, but now I'm like, you know what, something's working. I don't know, you know, if it's that and in combination with the SEO and the algorithm, but it's something obvious. Say something's starting to work.

[A]

And you know, looking at your Instagram, there's, you only have 275 followers, so. And I say only, which means you've been growing it, which is fantastic. And I want you to think about the impact that if you keep doing the things that are working. It's a snowball, right? It's this, it starts somewhere and then it snowballs and snowballs. So if I look at your reels for the amount of followers you have, you're at least on a lot of them, you're at least doubling the views than the followers that you have. And so it's really starting to look at. So I think that one of the things I want you to anchor back into from this call, moving, moving into the next stage for you is think what's working. So even with content, what kind of content is working that people are liking? And how can I take that content and do a very similar piece of content? Because what we all get to do is stop centering ourselves our product business. So what does that mean? You, Jill, you exist as Jill, Complete, whole, perfect, wonderful over here. And then your company, right, Clover Exchange exists over here. And even though, yes, you're the face of your brand and you are the one creating the content and stuff like that, we have to really think, like, what do customers or humans see and what do they like? So the algorithm is going to show it to the people who follow you, but then in stuff that starts to resonate, it will start to show to more people. So really it's you hooking into what it is. So if it's like, corks are for quitters. For example, that shirt in three different versions of it, right? Like you with a glass of wine wearing the shirt saying, corks are for quitters. A graph. Just the T shirt corks are for quitters. There is a shirt that I. An embroidered shirt that I love and I sent to my husband. So I'm not even buying it, but it was a shareable piece of content. Where I saw it and I sent it to my husband, I was like, this is so me. It says, everything I love hurts my tummy. And it has embroidered ice cream, cheese, bread, pizza, milk, like, embroidered around it, because I have a food sensitivity thing. And so to me, I'm like, I'm not going to wear this shirt, but I'm going to send it to my husband. Which Instagram is really favoring. Content that's shareable.

[B]

Okay, that's good to know.

[A]

So let's talk about something that's become a huge needle mover in 2025. Shareable content. One of Jill's best sellers is a sweatshirt that says Quirks are for quitters. It's cheeky, it's bold, and people love it. But here's what's really working. It's shareable. It's the kind of thing someone sees, they laugh at, and they immediately forward to their friends or they post it to their story with a this is so me caption. So Instagram is really prioritizing that kind of content right now. Not just what people like, but what they send to other people. And Jill's brand is perfect for this, right? Because her products have captions on it, and people are forwarding these captions and they're connecting and they're sharing. So if your brand makes people laugh, feel seen, or nod their head and say, yes, that's me, I want you to lean into that. Create more of it. Say it louder. Because in today's digital world, shareability is your new visibility. Repeat that content. It works. You bring it back again. You put it on trial reels. Like, there's so many different ways that you can take some of the pillars of content that you're creating because your stuff is shareable, which is why you're also getting word of mouth, why people are sharing you with other people. People see it, they identify with it, and they feel like, I see me in that or, that's so funny. Where'd you get it? Word of mouth does have to do with you because it has to do with the fact that you're creating product that deeply resonates with people. People. And people want to share it. And that's what becomes a brand. Not just another T shirt, not just another necklace. It's the stuff that people are like, oh, I love that word. You get it. And someone is so ready to tell you, oh, I got it from blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Like you say too, people buy from people. Right. The things that seem to do the most is when I put myself on there, whether I'm wearing a sweatshirt, whether I'm, you know, making fun of my kids doing dumb things or whatever it is that seems to get people like the most views or comments or likes. So it's trying to find a good mix of. I'm not selling myself though, I'm selling a product, right?

[A]

Yeah, but you're selling a brand. A post that I see that's really funny is Gen X vibes. And he said 1995. Celebrating when a fake ID scored me shots at the bar today. Feeling pretty cool that I passed the vision test at the dmv. That kind of humor is the same humor as quirks are for quitters. Same person, same end customer, kind of sarcastic, doesn't take themselves too seriously. Could be around the drinking culture because there's, there's different cultures. Like if we were to go to young kids these days, Jen, I don't know, is it Gen Z or whoever's pre after millennials, they're not drinking. So alcohol and bars and stuff like that. But Gen X is like, pour me a big glass of wine. So that's part of you honing in on who the ideal customer avatar is and who's going to resonate with your stuff. We don't need to get a 20 something year old wearing corks or for quitters. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're buying and even who they're attracted to on who they're buying the brand from. So you being a visual representation of your brand and it seems like it's natural for you, it's kind of just who you be. You're like promise and spam. Just sass if you're sassy. But then when you're creating your products around it, it's also this idea of like the graphic tees and the things that they look for that it also feels like a brand. So there's parts of your brand that to me look like a little bit like vintage surfer, which is a different kind of brand than just like the words on the shirt versus like you're absolutely not. It's just super, super simple, simply printed. So I think there's also this level of you starting to really think about, like, okay, if I'm going to do funny things on a T, does it need to be super designed or is it, like, what is actually selling? Are people just buying the really simple, you know, whatever the font is on the shirt? Because, like, you've got the 1975 vintage. Do people buy that one?

[B]

A few, but it's definitely not a bestseller. It's the simpler the better. I think people just want straightforward, funny sayings that people get right away, you know?

[A]

Yeah, that's where I. You said you like one clean eating, dirty, dirty martini. And it's like in a little bit of a different font, but still could go with the other one. Like your quick surfer quitters. Or you're absolutely not like, simple fonts, you know, really, like, maybe they're in solid colors on, you know, solid tees or tanks. Because you want to think about how she dresses in full. Is she wearing it with her Lululemon leggings? Is she wearing it with sweats? Is she wearing it with jeans? And you just have to think about that Persona, even how you're represented to me right now. Like, I don't know where you live, but to me, you're like, slightly Connecticut. Like, where do you live?

[B]

I'm Chicago. Chicago, okay. Yeah.

[A]

But like, there's this, like, sophistication to you. You're very sophisticated. But also when I look at your thing, it's like there's also this level of you being relaxed and chill and like, you know, you're just classy and sassy. Oh, I like it, Jack. Right.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So think about your customer as that she's classy and sassy.

[B]

It's funny because I am. I'm actually a lawyer, but I don't practice at all anymore. My former life before I had kids. But it's so funny because people have said, oh, my gosh, you're like these two different people. Like this. I'm like, right, But I'm not a lawyer anymore. I mean, I am, but not really, you know. So I think it is like, you're.

[A]

Always going to earn that. So let's just jump into that one. You went to law school. You passed the bar.

[B]

I did, I did. But yeah. So it's just like the fun part of me, you know, Now I can explore, like, the creative fun side.

[A]

Let's talk brand identity. Jill's brand is for women who are classy and sassy. They're Women who've spent years being the caretaker, the yes person, the one who holds everything together. Do you know who I'm talking about? And they're finally stepping into their own voice. So Jill described her customer as someone between 35 and 55 who's done putting herself last. And now she's ready to show up in a bold, unapologetic way. And here's what I told her. When your product reflects your customer's inner voice, you've stopped selling and you've started resonating. And that's when people start wearing your message like a badge of honor. That's when you build community, not just sales. And think about it. You probably have a product that's like that for you. And Jill, she's walking into this thing, this beautiful way that she gets to bring sophistication, and she's building a brand that doesn't just look good on a sweatshirt. It feels like empowerment. So if you're building a product based business, ask yourself, what truth does my product speak? Who is it giving permission to? And then I want you to build from there. So I have a student who works another product boss. She works in corporate. I think she actually works for the government.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

From video calls like this, I would never know how tattooed she was. Oh, how she likes to wear, like, do boudoir shots. Oh, how kind of like, sexy and like, like, I'm like, do you, like, ride a motorcycle? Like this other Persona. So she does have these two Personas. So that's another side to what you're creating here that you get to build in is like, there's like the weekend you and the week you. Right. The. Like when you're at home and you get to just be yourself and tell people who you really are. That's what happens with these shirts. Shirts that say things on them. And I know you do sweatshirts, but T shirts with words on them really grew was when we kind of started the Twitter idea where we set things in 141 characters or less. When we all started to have Facebook profiles, because people started to identify themselves through, like a photo and a caption. Yeah. And that's when I really saw shirts, graphic tees like this take off because they were a walking photo and a caption. You see them and you're like, oh, I. I know about that person based on what their shirt's saying.

[B]

Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I'm going for. And yeah, also, like, I think I need to stick. I have like an Irish line too. And then I Have a Midwest line. I feel like I'm kind of get all over the place. But what really sells are the sarcastic, funny things, by far.

[A]

So just because you can doesn't mean you should. So that's where you get to check yourself. And if you're really creating for an alternative. Jill. Right. Maybe it is Jill, who's still an attorney, who on weekends is like, just pour me a glass of wine and let's just have some fun. Right? Like, I think the theme of your coaching right now is what works. Keep looking at what works. What resonates the most. You do not need to create new, new, new, new. You don't need to create a St. Patty's Day line or a Midwest line unless, like, you're doing a Midwest show and you want to make funny things that people local get. Great. But it doesn't have to be inhale, exhale. It doesn't have to be mom life. It doesn't have to be any of that. Like, just be true to who you are. And even if you ran the same eight shirts and tried to grow with them, because going back to your algorithm, what works, what content hits, make it better, create more of it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do different versions of it in trial reels and see what social puts out to trying to pull people in.

[B]

That's probably why, like, one I have, my son was watering the flowers in Chicago in the summer, and he's wearing a winter coat because he's worried about the bees. But it's, like, so ridiculous. And people are like, oh, my God. And then he got mad at me for putting it on there, you know, and it's like the whole, like, well, this is real life. You really do wear a winter coat outside. Or the OR one I put out there was. I was putting a sweatshirt on. It was the Slow Mo Club, which is also a good seller, top seller. But, yeah, my dog is in the background, like, cleaning his butt, you know, And I think people relate to that kind of stuff when you're like, oh, you're trying to make everything pretty. And my husband was videoing me, and then my dog sits down next to me and cleans his butt. So it's like, I feel like that is who I am. And I do feel like that resonates with people. Like, oh, my gosh. It's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's real. It's real life.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Not everything is shiny and pretty and perfect all the time.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's funny and that's interesting and that's entertaining, and it's like again, if she's a mom and she's got teenage kids or kids in their early 20s or whatever the ages, she's also going to get that. So she's, you know, if she's Gen X, she's In her later 40s, her 50s, she's got similar age kids, she's got similar problems. That's when you really start to hone into who my ideal customer avatar is and what kind of content they appreciate. And I've seen the biggest transformation in brands. I just coached this earlier. You're not selling the product. You're selling everything around the product. You're selling the vision. What you're actually selling is not the sweatshirt you're selling. The feeling, the laugh, the chuckle, the ownership, the identity that they get to have when wearing your shirt. They feel seen.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Just happens to be in the form of a sweatshirt.

[B]

Spot on. So do you think, Jacqueline, that I should really lean into the. The sarcastic sassy collection as opposed. I mean, is it okay to keep the other ones on the website or on Etsy, but just not really be promoting them in case someone.

[A]

Are they pre made or you. Or do you make them?

[B]

I make every. I hand press. I don't like. That's another selling point is I don't do pod. I don't do print on demand. Like I design it.

[A]

But they're not designed by stock, they're not in inventory.

[B]

No, no, stop.

[A]

Stop wasting your time on all that. What. How easy would it be? How much simpler and focused could you be it be. And you be if you're like, this is what I sell. If you were on inventory, we'd be like, great, let's try and move that inventory. But because it's just. It is what it is. Now. What would it look like if you're so focused on who this woman is, you understood her so well and the products you made for her were this.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's huge. That's like. That's been looming over my head. So I really wanted to see like, I feel like the writings on the wall of what resonates with people. And it's not a shamrock sweatshirt you can get anywhere else. You know, it's. It's the funny stuff. It's the, the original design that might not be an original saying, but it's like the font that I put with the color or whatever. You know, it just. That's what sells. That's what catch people's attention and that's people are giving them as gifts and you know I've had people girls trips say I've had three or four huge orders for these girls trips that are quirks or for quitters. You know that that's the kind of stuff that's really, I feel like hitting home for people.

[A]

Yeah. That's what they buy. That's what they buy for group things that they do. I guess what I really want to bring through and clarify for you here is that you have so much data of stuff that's working that I want you to always ask yourself when you look at it, why is this working? What's this? What's the commonalities? What's the similarity here? Okay, I'm selling really well on Etsy. What's selling well on Etsy? Is it the same that's selling on Shopify or is it not? But then you can look at like we started here, we looked at your social and you're like this kind of social does really well and these kinds of shirts do really well on Etsy or on my Shopify. What's the through line? And you never said it was because it was St. Patty's Day even though you live in Chicago. Right, Right. So you're like, oh, sassy. Gen X. Me not taking myself seriously. That's a through line in the, in the product even.

[B]

Right. And you know what? I think that I started this because I'm a hundred percent Irish and that's why the clover exchange came to be or like that's how the name and I feel like I was almost train myself if I didn't do an Irish line. But I, I see now that doesn't really make sense business wise and I'm really not betraying myself myself.

[A]

No. And having a four leaf clover. Another thing, you know how lululemon and, and brands have like the little icon somewhere. This could be future but it could be that there's always like a little Irish. There could be a little four leaf clover somewhere always on the shirt that's green. For example, I used to be in bridal and I've made a lot of wedding gowns by hand for friends. When I was back post fashion, had no kids and all the time in the world. Okay. So what I love to do is I would take something blue and I would sew it into the inside. So whether it was a blue label or a ribbon or something that was like vintage, I would like, I would add the something blue so that their white gown had the something blue. They could buy something but it was incorporated into it and also just a sub to the brand is also. We all got a little luck. So everyone has like some sort of four leaf clover somewhere on it because you're blessing them with luck.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

That's, you know, even center, back of the back, neck, for example, because that'd be an easy place for you to print. Yeah. Or heat transfer. Or long term. It could be an embroidery, something. So then when we're walking around and we look at it, we're like, oh, I know that that's clover exchange. Because the clover is on it.

[B]

Wow, Jeff. I mean, that is. That's thinking big, right? I love this. Yeah.

[A]

It's how my brain works. Yes.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

You're like, I don't know. I don't know how to teach.

[B]

Go big or go home.

[A]

Yeah. I guess that I really always come back to. And what my superpower is, is thinking about the customer, thinking about the end customer and how everything we do needs to. To benefit them. And they're not buying the sweatshirt. I mean, yes, like, I wore a sweatshirt this morning and then I changed into a nicer sweater for now because I want to pres. They were both black. One was branded with another company's name on it. We're to the dog park, then I get to show up and coach you. So I put on a nicer sweater. So I just present in a certain way. They're both keeping me warm. They both have long sleeves. They're both made out of cotton. But how do I feel? One's my dog park outfit, the other one is my I'm going to coach you sweatshirt. Professional sweater. Yeah, I love that. So you're selling a feeling.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're selling how they feel wearing it. You're selling who they want to be. You're selling how they want to be perceived. We're selling the vision, we're not selling the product. The product is like the nice to have. It's because it makes. It's the same reason why someone buys a Ford or a BMW or a Range Rover. It's the same reason why someone buys a real Chanel bag or a knockoff version that kind of looks like the feeling of it, but they just want the look, not the brand. That's what we're selling. We're selling how they feel using your product or in the presence of your product. Yeah.

[B]

So that's what I probably really need to lean into, even on socials and stuff is like the, you know, like the sarcastic, funny, confident kind of vibe. And like, do you know that lady that. Do you follow That I. We do not care club that lady. That kind of.

[A]

No, but see, that's because I know you're absolutely not. As a big design for you. I was just thinking of that one. So. Yeah, that's the same culture.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And that's like, yes for women. I just turned 50 last week, so it's like that whole vibe.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Well, thanks. Like, we're done. Like, we're not. We're not gonna be here to people, please, anymore. Okay. This is awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. So even that community, even you reaching out to her and being like, hey, I so align with this. Like, I'd love to send you a gift basket of these. Like, you know the weather's turning. Like, I love you. Thank you for giving me permission to that. Your Instagram's fine. You know the things to lean into because you already know it works. I don't want you to necessarily consider Instagram being the number one thing you do because but if you do see that it's driving sales, do more of it. So that's, I think, what I want you to take away from it. It's like, if it's not driving sales, then just don't worry about it right now. If it is driving sales, then you get to keep considering, like, how do I do more of what's working? Got it. Okay. So that's one thing to consider the product. Same thing. You know what to consider. You know what's working. You're gonna keep going with the product. SEO. Your question was about SEO, but it sounds like you're nailing it. Like you understand the words that are necessary to be found based on what someone's searching and the product description.

[B]

Yes. And what about product people doing a blog for SEO? What's your opinion on that?

[A]

Yeah, so I used to teach those. I don't think it's still in sales accelerator. I used to teach it as like a hidden blog. So what I would actually say to people is I. It's like it doesn't have to be a front facing blog that's on your site, but it could be blogs that are according to searches. So like Wine Girls Trip or Gen X Wine Girls Trip. And you could create four pieces of content. Like you can look up like really well searched words and you can create like four pieces of content or five or six that have search terms that people would find when searching. They'd land on it and then you'd have links to your product that they'd come back into. Got it.

[B]

And you, because you can do the Blog right through Shopify. You don't have to set up a separate like whole.

[A]

We're also shifting into a new time of AI. It's called aeo, not SEO. Oh, I don't want to overwhelm you with that but there's in the next six months it's going to be blogs, press more mentions of you in more places. So for example, being on this podcast will be another place that you're mentioned. And if you're using the right keywords, if someone were to go into ChatGPT and search, because Shopify just announced a collaboration with ChatGPT that if I'm searching for baby monitors, it's going to bring up baby monitors and then it's going to give you links to purchase. It's going to shift us away from Google. The more you can get to know your customer and what she would search for. Girls, weekend, wine, sweatshirts, even finding out on Etsy like what keywords do show up and are are good are things that you could look into Crafting blogs around and in sales accelerator. We do talk a bit about SEO. Now let's talk about SEO because what Jill is doing here is so good. Search engine optimization can feel like a long game and it's honestly it is. But it's also one of the only strategies that continues to work for you long after you post. So unlike social media, where your reel might disappear in 48 hours or leave the algorithm, a well written product title description on Etsy or Shopify can keep attracting buyers week after week. So Jill got really strategic, adding words that her ideal customer avatar is actually typing into their computer. Right? Like funny sweatshirt gift or sarcastic crewneck, not just absolutely cute sweatshirt. And guess what? People started finding her not because they paid for ads or she went viral, but because she spoke the same language that her customers were searching for when they typed into Google. So if SEO feels overwhelming, here is my advice. I want you to start simple. Think like your customer. What would they type in if they were looking for your product? So start there and then those phrases, add them to your titles and your descriptions and it will change everything overnight for you, just like it did for Jill. And that momentum will start to build quietly but powerfully over time. You can go use some other tools or use AI and say this is what I make. These are my best sellers. What would my ideal customer, who's Gen X, what would she be searching for?

[B]

Yeah, I love it.

[A]

And then say what blog would I create?

[B]

Yeah, I do a weekly newsletter and Chelsea is my AI's name. She helps me a ton and I always thank her. And I. I feel like we really know each other. I'm like my son who's in college said, well, that's great, mom, because they're going to take over the world someday and now you're going to be on their good side. So keep thanking them. I'm like, okay. Kind of scary, but kind of real. It feels like sometimes too they really know what they're doing. I'm talking about chat G B T.

[A]

But yeah, it gathers information from other places. And the. But the thing is is your GPT is only as good as the prompts you give it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And your GPT is only as good as how you train it. So while it answers generically for you or if you pay for it, it's going to answer based on all the things you started to feed it. People who really know how to use AI until like it gets gated and you know, someone sells you an AI. Like we might come out with an AI that's product boss AI where you get to ask me questions. But it's my AI self. Right? But I've trained it into that. I've trained it into my curriculum, I've trained it into that. And then, and then it's like prompts to that. So what I don't want you to get too hung up on is the thing, the things that aren't really driving revenue right now. We're going into a busy season. We are going into sweatshirt season. So even consider for the holidays. What would a mom or a woman at this age who is like so over it or kind of sassy, what would she want on her sweatshirt?

[B]

And do you think I could lean into that with like I have one that I designed that says Thanksgiving up like kind of the same, kind of the same vibe. Thanksgiving, like giving up. Like thanks. It's like the word Thanksgiving and then the word yeah, like it kind of goes with the same vibe. But it's seasonal. But it, it might work around this.

[A]

Time of year a hundred percent. And that's what. So Karina with her Halloween themed stuff, she sells Halloween themed all year. But it might be summerween, it might be Thanksgiving wean. Which means everything's gotta kind of has that spooky vibe. It's for someone who always wants to wear spooky and black. And then how do they represent that version of themselves throughout the year? So she doesn't only sell Halloween sweatshirts, she sells T shirts that they still represent themselves as. Like in all black like, we used to have Hot Topic, you know, like, kind of like the. Sometimes you call it goth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though it's not really goth, because it's also. It's also funny. It's almost like that. It's almost like goth meets Disney culture is how I. I see her stuff. Because it's fun and playful and whimsical. So it's the same thing for you. So it's like, thanks. Giving up. It's like, yeah, I get you. I get you, mama. Right? Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So stay on brand. You can. You can do things seasonally, but I just want to keep staying on that sarcastic, sassy, bold brand and stuff that.

[A]

She'D be like, I'm buying that when I'm cooking. Right.

[B]

Dinner or most likely to flip the bird or, you know, I have something like that, you know, just funny kind of stuff that you might. You're not going to wear to church, but it's going to be funny for your family gathering.

[A]

So the idea for you, I really wanted to stick to because you actually. You had a mindset thing. Let me just go check out what your mindset was when we started this. Getting over imposter syndrome, part of your imposter syndrome syndrome. And you're recovering people pleaser and other people's opinions and stuff like that. You get to integrate that into what you do. You get to be real about it, too, if you really want it to be, get to be in ownership of it. What I want you to think of is Clover Exchange is this. And Jill is this. Clover Exchange is not Jill. The same with your kids. Kids are going to do stupid stuff. Yes. You raise them, but at some point you're like, you did that dumb thing. Take ownership of it so you can guide it. You could love it. You could test and try. Like, you already don't take yourself that seriously, and you do and you don't. But, like, you're willing to put yourself out there and not take yourself seriously. So just start to think, like, how can I be the steward of Clover Exchange? What's best for the brand and the ideal customer.

[B]

I love it. And separating those two Personas is probably one of the best ways to get over imposter syndrome, because I am different. I'm separate from the brand.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

It's amazing. Thank you, Jacqueline. It's been so eye opening, and I just feel like I want to run away with all the millions of ideas you've given me now.

[A]

So what do you think? What's your biggest takeaway that you feel like, was the most helpful.

[B]

Well, just because it's right fresh in my mind is the, the models, like, they have to represent the look of my ideal customer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And narrowing down my product line to focus on, you know, the voice of my brand, instead of kind of trying to be everything for everyone, just focus on my ideal customer.

[A]

Yeah, it's huge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's the through line for most of what we talked about, which is follow what works. And then being able to, as a third party, look at it objectively and say, oh, I see the commonalities, I see the breadcrumbs that are being left. I get it now. And that's just you zooming out. That's just you stepping back a little bit and looking at what you've been creating. And so that's just, you get to ask yourself that question, like, what's the through line? What's showing up? That's why I talk about bestsellers or what you're known for. And that applies to everything.

[B]

Yeah. 100%. Awesome. Thank you so, so much. Really. Thank you.

[A]

Of course, if people wanted to buy from you, follow you all the things, how could they do that?

[B]

So I'm on Instagram at the Clover Exchange and then I have a Facebook page, the Clover Exchange. My website is a cloverexchangeshop.com Amazing.

[A]

Hey, go support everyone. So here's what I hope you take away from Jill's story. You don't have to do everything. You don't need 10 marketing channels or a viral reel to grow meaningful business or a meaningful brand. What you do need is a clear message, products that resonate, and the willingness to keep showing up even when the audience is small. Jill is building a brand with heart, humor, and a whole lot of honesty. And she's learning to trust what's already working to double down on what's getting traction. And instead of chasing all the new strategies and all the new trends every week. So, Product Boss, here is your challenge. I want you to look at your own brand. What's working, what's gaining momentum, even if it's small. And how can you lean into that instead of adding more to your to do list? Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you found it helpful, go ahead and leave us a rating or review or even a comment. And don't forget to share this with a friend who's building their product based business too. See you next time. Time. Thank you for being here and listening all the way through the Product Boss podcast. If you love our show and it has helped you in any way in your business. Would you mind doing two things for us? Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review. Reviews help other product entrepreneurs know that this is the place to be to grow their businesses and realize that they're not alone. And we know that you all know that a five star and honest review helps you sell more products to more people. So you know that your reviews help us reach more listeners around the world. Remember, what we give is what we receive and we are all about helping each other in the product boss community. We are all in this together. We would be so appreciative of you if you could take the time right now to subscribe, leave a review and even share this episode on social media or someone you know so we can impact more lives. And remember, subscribing means that you will get notified each time we release a new episode so you never miss a thing. You have helped us grow and climb into the top 10 of all marketing podcasts and together we can keep climbing. Thank you friends and remember there is room at the top for all of us.