← The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
The Product Boss with Jacqueline Snyder
748. The Identity Shift Required for Your Next Level of Business with Tina Tower
00:50:59
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- [00:00]
Jaclyn Snyder
Hey everybody and welcome back to the Product Boss podcast. I'm your host Jaclyn Snyder and on this show we help product based business owners grow the businesses of their dreams so that they can live the life of their dreams. Now I don't normally do this, but I was recently on my friend Tina Towers podcast, her Empire Builder and she interviewed me on some topics that I really haven't fully talked about out loud. In fact, over the last six months I've been in a program where I've been establishing a TED Talk and really stepping into some of my thought leadership and going through the journey that I've been on, which has been a journey of grief, a journey of loss, a journey of rebuild and rebuilding myself internally this business after I bought it from a co founder and really just this massive journey. And Tina's known me for years and she interviewed me on her show. So I was just so excited about this episode that I asked her if I could bring it to the Product Boss community and air it on this show. So you're going to get to listen to Tina Towers, her Empire builder or her Empire Builder by Tina Tower. And if you love the show, please make sure that you follow her show as well wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, let's jump in.
- [01:15]
Jacqueline Snyder
Hi, I'm Jacqueline Snyder and this is the Product Boss podcast. I've helped launch and grow thousands of
- [01:20]
Jaclyn Snyder
product based businesses, even one of my own.
- [01:22]
Jacqueline Snyder
And over the last 20 years, I've seen behind the scenes of businesses just like yours. Whether they are makers, manufacturers, artists or food and beverage businesses.
- [01:31]
Jaclyn Snyder
I have spent so many hours studying it all. I've discovered what makes them successful, what mistakes they could have avoided, how did
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Jacqueline Snyder
they turn their ideas into successful business
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Jaclyn Snyder
and what are the strategies that they have used to make more sales and
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Jacqueline Snyder
be discovered by more customers.
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Jaclyn Snyder
And this is what this show is all about.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to become a million dollar product boss, I'm here to give you the permission to chase your dreams no matter
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Jaclyn Snyder
how big or small. All you need is the right mindset,
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Jacqueline Snyder
a little courage to strategy and support and you too can be the next million dollar product Boss. Let's do this.
- [02:06]
Tina Tower
Hi friends and welcome to her Empire Builder Show. I am your host, Tina Tower. It is so great to be with you today. I have my very, very beautiful friend and incredible product boss and business owner Jacqueline Snider on the show today and while Jack is is one of the greatest business women I know, we are actually talking a lot about the mental game behind business. So this episode you will absolutely love if you have been looking for more meaning, if you have been looking for more of a way to feel aligned with your business and so that you can get more results and feel really great about the results that you get along the way. So Jacqueline Snyder is the founder of the Product Boss, bringing in over 20 years of experience to the product industry where she's launched and grown over 2,000 brands, including those featured in major retailers like Nordstrom and Target. She started her journey as a fashion designer with Cuffs Couture. She built a six figure business in its first year without ads or social media following. She's passionate about the mirror method, which is what we're talking a lot in in our call. In our chat today, Jacqueline believes that personal growth directly impacts business success, guiding her 100,000 plus students worldwide to achieve remarkable milestones including Shark Tank appearances and top seller rankings. With over 5 million podcast downloads, she delivers actionable strategies and mentorship to help entrepreneurs navigate the challenges of building resilient businesses that reflect their true potential. And I've linked to Jack's show her masterclass training, all of the good stuff that she has in the show notes below so that you can go and check it out. But I think this episode will be really, really good for your soul. So please enjoy my conversation with my beautiful friend.
- [04:10]
Jacqueline Snyder
Hello.
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Tina Tower
Hello, fabulous Jacqueline Snyder. Welcome to her Empire Builder show.
- [04:15]
Jacqueline Snyder
Thanks, Tina. I'm so glad to be here.
- [04:18]
Tina Tower
I wish it was in person. The funny thing is, is we're seeing each other in person next week and so we maybe should have just, you know, bought the phone and a couple of lapel mics. But we're doing it, we're doing it now.
- [04:28]
Jacqueline Snyder
We're going to do it because, you know, why not?
- [04:30]
Tina Tower
Well, because it fits my filming schedule.
- [04:32]
Jacqueline Snyder
It does. And it's like you're here anyways. I mean, behind you it's Palm Springs, I'm in la. It's like, you might as well live in Southern California with me, right?
- [04:40]
Tina Tower
I can't wait. I can't wait to be back. But I have so many questions to ask you because you are one of the most exceptional people that I have come across. I was lucky enough to meet you, oh, what, three, four years ago now? It's a while, like right after we got of out of the COVID bubble in Costa Rica and we went to, you know, the retreat together. And you always, when you get to retreats, like, look at everyone to try and like, are you my person? Are you my person. And you were straight away I was like, I like this girl.
- [05:10]
Jacqueline Snyder
You're my person for life, Tina.
- [05:14]
Tina Tower
So you have actually changed a lot since I met you on that day. One of the biggest significant shifts, I think was you built the product boss with Mina for years. Can you take us back to the moment that you knew that you were going to step into the next chapter because you ended up buying her out and leading solo. Like what was happening internally for you then?
- [05:36]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, it was so interesting because we, we really fell into the product boss. So I started with a co founder back in 2017, 2018 and you met us both together. But I think as the business really started to rapidly take off, it was, it started as like a side hustle Fridays. We get to chat with each other. We love it, we love it. And then it massively grew up. But I think from a values alignment perspective, my. My mind, my heart has always been an impacting women. Right? Like I want to have my impact on this world is helping women owned businesses generate a billion dollars worldwide through their companies. Like I want to be the brand maker, I want to be the person behind that. And what we started to see as the company started to acquire more of us, our value alignment started to change. We both loved each other, we both loved the business we built. So, so when it really came down to it, where things started to shift in the company, we had to, we. It was interesting. We started to look at the business as an. As an external entity. It wasn't me and her, it was myself individually, her individually and the company. And it was like what was best for the company. And because of the vision that I had for impact on the world impacting women owning businesses, it just made sense that I, we both left it on the table. Either of us could take it. And actually I said to her, maybe you take it. And then she took a week and she said, I think you take it. So it was really worked through in that way and we amicably split up. Like our last episode together was when our paths diverge, we're still friends, but it was really having this big vision for the business and the vision of impact and how we would influence the world. And that's I think ultimately why it fell into my hands. Mm.
- [07:15]
Tina Tower
Yeah, I know that, you know, it. It was a big transition to go from like the we to me and doing that by yourself. Like what surprised you most with that change emotionally and practically?
- [07:30]
Jacqueline Snyder
I just did a talk on that this weekend because I didn't realize how significant it Was, it's so funny. I thought I got it right. Like I got it, I have the vision. And then my brother, I remember he messed with my brain. He called me, he's like, do you think you're doing the right thing? Cause I don't know if you know this, but it's a popular show here in America. It was Regis and Kelly or Regis and Kathy. Kathy Lee. So Regis always had another co host. So he said, do you think they're still gonna listen to you? Oh, he didn't mean to, but it really messed with my brain. Yeah, right. Because I was in master.
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Tina Tower
I know I had so many boxes from you in that time going like, it's so different. I don't have someone now.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, you were so supportive of it too. Because you've transitioned throughout businesses like you've built gigantic businesses and exited them. So I think that started the seed of doubt. And that seed of doubt then quickly went to. And the industry changed. Right. Like the course industry was changing. I don't think we knew it back then. And so as numbers started to shift downward, I thought can I do this? Is it me? Can I handle this? Am I breaking the company? And so, so much self doubt was being. I believe our businesses are a mirror. And it was mirroring back my self doubt because the strategy was staying the same. And so I think that that was. There's this massive. At first it was like how do I take, how do I from a brand perspective, step in, change it all to my face, change it all to I coming back to my story. Because when we would tell our story of the, of the iteration of the product boss, it was how we met and what we created versus I've been a fashion designer for 20 years. I started 2000 businesses as a consultant in the fashion industry. Then I came into the product boss. So it was really this, this one just taking the brand self identity, trying things that we had always done together and thinking oh she said this or what would she have done? And it's really truly has taken me, I think two years and a lot of internal emotional development work just worked on myself to get to the point of ownership of what do I want? What is the world require now? What is 2026 want? So it's, it's really been, it's been a process, but it's been a great process. Yeah.
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Tina Tower
And you said something then that you said the line to me yesterday as well and I went, oh, I like that is your business is a mirror. And I said straight away to you that needs to be the title of, like a keynote speech, because I think that. So I want to ask you a little bit more about that, because when we say your business is a mirror, I totally, totally agree. But it can be really hard, especially for women in the moment where they're going, you know, you're trying to do something that you've never done before, and you're trying to get yourself to a level of self leadership that you never have before. If you know that that's going to reflect back to you. Did you, like, act as if, did you fake it till you make it to get that to reflect? But, like, what did that actual journey look like for you? Because I would say watching you over the last couple of years, you have gone from where you were. You and Mina were very reliant upon each other to really, like standing very strong and quietly confident and stable in your own power and your own leadership.
- [10:34]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, well, it took bottoming out. Truthfully, it took, I mean, you know this. But over the last two years, like after we broke up, my dad passed away. After we broke up, after we broke up, because we did.
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Jaclyn Snyder
It was like a divorce.
- [10:46]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah. Um, my dad passed away, which was a lot of identity. And then exactly a year later, my mom passed away after battling cancer for five years. So it was almost like it almost took that. And I, I, I, I passed out and got a concussion the weekend before my mom ended up in the hospital. So the universe was smacking me on my butt. It was like, you will listen. You will listen. You will listen. Because I kept trying to do things
- [11:11]
Tina Tower
that I think women do not do. Like, you just gloss over that, but just for everyone to know, like, Jack was at an event where you weren't feeling well and you wouldn't admit or tell anyone that you weren't feeling well. And so you went to the part where you ended up passing out and then getting taken away in the back of an ambulance.
- [11:28]
Jacqueline Snyder
And everyone saw me anyways. I was at a table with 20 women. I was at the CEO Mama Mastermind retreat, mothers that were around, and I didn't even ask for help. So that's, I think, a great.
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Tina Tower
Why, why, why do you business is a mirror. Do you think now? Do you think now you would?
- [11:46]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yes, Because I think again, if we talk about the mirror work that's available to us in all, really, in everything, because whatever it's reflecting to you at home, in relationship self, relationship self care business, asking for support was weak. I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm Gonna do it by myself. Like, to ask for support. Made it that they were talking about a terrible birth story. And I've never gotten queasy. It was so weird, But I was. It was hot. Who knows? And so, again, I could have looked to the left. I could have looked to the right. Bunny was there. I didn't even ask Bunny. I had to text her from the floor when I woke up and be like, I need you to come help me. That's like, you want to talk about the lowest point? Yeah, that was pretty low. And then I'm wheeled out while they're all at the bar, and I'm waving, like, on this, like, EMT stretcher. Going. Going to the hospital.
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Jaclyn Snyder
And then Bunny, like, forced her.
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Jacqueline Snyder
I was like, I got it. I can go by myself. She's like, no, no. I'm going with you.
- [12:41]
Tina Tower
So terrible what we put us. I remember with my previous business. So I Luckily. Luckily. I do think from experiences like that, we do learn a lot. And unfortunately, we can hear a lot about it and we can read a lot about it, but sometimes we have to learn. And, like, I know I called the ambulance when I thought I was having a heart attack, but I was just having, like, mega panic attack and was over the side of the road. Just, like, Just. But when I went to the hospital, it's like, I couldn't remember a time where my hands weren't shaking or I didn't have a headache or I didn't feel nauseous. I'm like, I've literally felt this way for the past two years and haven't stopped. And it's so sad that we do that to ourselves.
- [13:21]
Jacqueline Snyder
I. You know. Yes. And so I'll say, for me, the universe gave me little micro things, and I didn't hear it.
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Tina Tower
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Jacqueline Snyder
It gets a lot, like, getting louder and louder until it literally smashed me on the floor. And what sucks is the concussion. That weekend was my last weekend with my mom. So I was also. I remember picking her up, taking her. Was going to my niece's recital, and I was telling her something, and she stops me, and she goes, you know, you've already told me this because my mom's so British. She was, like, very blunt. You already told me this story. And I was like, oh, I have no memory. Like, my brain was not functioning right. Right. And I had sprained my neck and my hand. Listen. Cut to two weeks later, she's in the hospital, and I fall, and I actually sprained my leg and couldn't drive to the hospital. So it was like, again, so it's like all of these things happen, happening. And then when she passed, my mom was the strongest person I know. Like the day, the event that took her to the hospital, she had done pilates that morning. She. She was stage four cancer. Like, extreme. Like, she didn't. She was such a warrior even to the day she passed. And I really looked at that and like, she always prioritized self care. And I don't regret the time that I had, but I regret that I didn't see it sooner and that it took such massive loss to see it. So I think at that point I just said, I'm pulling it all back to the studs. I can't function. I actually physically couldn't. I was in grief, I was in loss. So I was like, my whole goal, I set a 10 week. I do this with my students. I set a 10 week game changer goal. And so in 10 weeks, I will have changed the game by doing something. And in my. In what I teach is focus and fix. So either something needs to be focused and fixed, or we focus and scale or multiply. Meaning because you can't do both, right? To fix a major thing or. So for me, I was like, I'm gonna do 30% less work with 30% more profit and no new offers.
- [15:09]
Tina Tower
I mean, that sounds great.
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Jacqueline Snyder
And I did it.
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Tina Tower
How in green, everyone listening now is like, going, yeah, I want to do 30% less work and 30% more profit. Sign me up.
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Jaclyn Snyder
I know.
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Jacqueline Snyder
And it was like, but that's the thing, right? Like, otherwise I was throwing spaghetti at the wall. I was doing all the things I was trying, different launches. I was like doing a webinar. All these new courses I was coming out with, I was scrambling.
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Tina Tower
Yeah, so you went more focused than trying to go.
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Jacqueline Snyder
And I had actually planned that before she passed. So it was like, beautiful that I was like, oh. Again. I was like, the universe was conspiring in my favor. And so for that, I was just like. What I knew that worked for me was my main program, which was the sales accelerator. I just rebuilt it. It was called something else. I ran it for years and years. A $2,000 program. And then our challenges worked. So nothing else but a paid challenge into that program. And then just every month, I repeated it. So people thought I was nuts to do a monthly challenge, but it worked. Yeah, but at some point, my husband didn't even know it was a launch anymore because it was so becomes normal. Normal and easy. And it wasn't changing things. The changing the iterations is like where the nervous system and everything gets messed
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Tina Tower
up basically, for sure. That in my mind, does a launch every week.
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Jaclyn Snyder
Yeah.
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Jacqueline Snyder
But it's crushing it.
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Tina Tower
Crushing it. Yeah.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Like on a massive level. And so that's what I did. And I think within. Because our profitability was dropping even in the breakup, which is why we also kind of had to reassess. And so my goal was 30% profit, and I got it back up to 30% profit within. I think it was like the second month within 60 days. And it just, like, it just. It was predictable and it was repeatable and it turned the corner. My. My financial advisor, he's like, I didn't even talk to you for four months and I can't believe you turned it like this. He's like, you did it by yourself. And I was like, yeah, I just stayed focused and.
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Tina Tower
Yeah. Doing the things that work and stop doing the things that don't work.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah. And stop trying to grasp. Right. And I think one. And I know a lot of people that listen to you are course creators and we are always hearing different ways to do things.
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Tina Tower
Yes.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Yes. And it's so annoying.
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Tina Tower
I mean, I feel that way after every one of our mastermind calls. And I know that, you know, your students would feel that way when they come to product box calls, and mine would feel that way when they come to her empire builder calls. That you will hear someone else going, you know, I just did this BSL funnel and we're converting it. There was someone in our mastermind that was converting at 12% and then doing. And I looked at all this, I've gone, oh, my gosh, Well, I have to do that now. Like, that looks amazing. And I do think that, you know, there's different things that do work for different people. And a lot of the key to unlock is what is your method going to be? And then when you're there to. To learn from other people, but also stay in your lane. Like, stay the course of what's good for you.
- [18:08]
Jacqueline Snyder
And that's the. That was the pro. When I, in hindsight looked back at why things fell apart, it was, let's try it like this. This person's doing it like this. Let's change it to this. Instead of what works for the product boss, what has worked since, you know, 2019. Yeah. And of course, there's other ways to do it. But then also, like you said, knowing my customers, like, my particular customers are either makers, so they might be making. Because I help people who make and sell Physical products. So they could be on Etsy or Amazon or in person markets or wholesale. And so they're just, they're not in the course creation world saying conversion or funnel to them. They do not understand what those words are. So it's just a different customer. And I think we all have to be aware of that. And then again mine need more time with me. The no like trust factor. So instead of you know, X amount of months later if I if really hard, you know, we know that our conversion comes to like 2.3 times being with us that they'll convert. But we do convert cold audience when they've spent five days with me and they're just blown away.
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Tina Tower
Yeah, yeah. And what do you think like over the last couple of years what has been the biggest belief that has shifted that you have about yourself?
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Jacqueline Snyder
This is a good one. So I'm going to stair step this backwards. A lot of people there's a feeling of worthiness, right? There's this, there's this base feeling of am I worthy to receive? Am I worthy? But before worthiness, I think the question before is am I enough? Am I doing enough enough enough. Am I enough of a mom, enough of a business owner? And before that I think is trust. And so I think the biggest thing for me has been self trust. Because of course like again if we go back to comparison because comparison has been a killer for me. Like not in a good way. The killer of old joy, killer of everything. Like this person's doing it like that. Why are they having million dollar launches still? And mine don't convert at a million dollars anymore. Let's say we do still generate. It's just taking. Our friend Sean said this in our mastermind the other day. He said it takes, he's like, it feels like we have, we have to do two times the work for half the results. And if when we're talking about comparing even to 2023, 2022 course. So I think there was a lot of comparison and the comparison led to trust. And that started with again, I'm buying the company. Do I trust myself with the business? Even though before I was an entrepreneur at 26, 27 I didn't have anything because compared to I just made it up. Even the product bosses kind of made
- [20:42]
Tina Tower
up with such bliss.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Beautiful. And we had nothing, nothing to maintain. We were just growing. There was no expectation of it. So I think that my biggest lesson has been finding the micro things for trust. Whether it's self trust or trust in others. I haven't even Told you. But my nervous system needs a bit of a reset. I haven't stopped since my mom passed and there's just a lot. And so I decided this week to just call out of work completely. Like told my team, cancel everything except two things. I've got a first call for my new cohort and a conversion event, a webinar. I'm going to keep those two things on Wednesday and then this with you. And I basically like deleted Slack from my phone. I'm not on my email. And it's trusting that whatever the team I've built, they'll execute whatever needs to happen because I really need this, this reset. And so it goes both ways with self trust and trust and then also. And then that then leads to if I can trust myself and there's these micro moments of that then I am enough. Of course I'm enough. Everyone's enough. And self worth. But you can't get to worthiness until the trust is established 100%.
- [21:59]
Tina Tower
I would totally agree. And it's those micro things too. Like I think when people are there and they're letting themselves down all the time because they're not following through on the things that they say they're going to do. And I think even you just valuing yourself this week to go, you know what, I'm going to take myself a break. Like what a radical display of self trust.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah.
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Jaclyn Snyder
And it's.
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Jacqueline Snyder
And like you said. So where we are, where it's an interesting part is where we erode trust is as simple as sleeping in past our alarm. When we said we were going to get up early and do something, getting sun saying we're going to, you know, just if we all think about the micro moments that we let ourselves down in that erodes the self trust. So even just the not the whole day of craziness, I'm going to do this. You know, I'm going to walk 10,000 steps in weight training. All the things. Just a little thing of I'm going to get up and journal and start there. And you're like, oh, I trust myself to do that. And then you add on the next thing. And also the micro trust in people around you. Like I did this really cool thing yesterday. So I graduated this program and everyone was singing this song from Rent, the Seasons of Love.
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Tina Tower
Have fun.
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Jacqueline Snyder
And I was like, I didn't want to tell them that we knew basically the majority of the original cast on Broadway and the director. But I texted my husband I was in session so I had to have my phone Off. I texted him. I was like, we had like 45 minutes. I was like, can you text all the people we know and see if someone will send a video congratulating our group? Our group is INI is what it's called. And it's like congratulating us on our graduation. Turn my phone off. Completely off. Just trusting whatever happens is going to happen. And turn my phone back on. And there's a video from Adam Pascal, who's one of the original actors in Rent, leaving a video for all of us and blew everybody away. And my husband later said, thank you for trusting me with that. You know, so it's like trusting other people as well and trusting. Just trusting the process, trusting the universe. Just trust it's going to be how it is. So I think those are just two really good examples of trust.
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Tina Tower
So speaking of that, what support structures have you got around you now to enable you to do life? Because I know that you have, you know, you just mentioned your husband, who is an actor, which means he is either gone and working a lot or not at all. And so it has that like, up and down sort of lifestyle in there. And what sort of structure have you put around to help yourself, like manage the family and manage the business? Because it is, I know for a lot of women, a really big weight of responsibility and holding all of that risk and all of the financial responsibility in there as well. So how have you managed the load?
- [24:36]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, so fortunately and unfortunately, like with acting, when we were living in New York as a big Broadway actor, there'd be. I remember doing bedtimes by myself every night because he'd be in a show. The kids were a lot younger. My kids are 10 and 13 now, so it's a bit easier. You know, they. They get themselves up in the morning. So I really, we. We together. Good partnership. And he carries a lot of the parenting, actually in a lot of ways of getting the kids to school, picking them up. That is going to be my transition, though, now that I'm allowing for team and also the focus where I'm not constantly creating every week changing things up. It should allow for more spaciousness. The loss of my mom did affect, because my mom was the obvious of supporting us. So I've actually, you know, the hardest thing for me is to ask people that don't. That I don't pay to help me, like to lean on community or family members. And so my stepdad, he's been, he's like every Thursday he picks the kids up or when James is out of Town And I actually it was hard for me at first but I was like, can you help me get the kids to school? Because I had some launches that were starting at 8am my time. It's time kids had to get to school. So he'll come pick them up at 7:30 in the morning. And so just I think asking for support is the first part. I finally got an EA that I don't want to fire
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Tina Tower
which I think a lot of people can relate to that of the difficulty of that so hard.
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Jacqueline Snyder
I, you know, I've probably gone through the last like I'd say seven months of. And then eventually it was just like I was waiting, I was like okay, we're gonna find the right person. So I have an EA that she's still on onboarding and training but I think that there's help there. And then hiring people especially in the world that we're in now, like yes to leadership. But the size business that I have, I want leaders that also do. I want people who hold the outcome of their quote unquote department, hold the outcome of customer success, hold the outcome of marketing. Because that's where my crash out was in the beginning of last year was things weren't working and it always felt like it came back to me. Even though I was paying people, I had two people on multi six figure salaries and still if a launch didn't go well it's like all eyes are back on me. And I was like what is happening here? So really establishing accountability and allowing for them to hold their parts and come to me for what they want. So I would say that. Oh, and then I do have someone who helps me clean the house three times a week. I have not done laundry in years. It's so significant for me. So one thing I teach is the blend. I think balance is B.S. juggling means something's gonna fall. So I talk about the blend. I'm actually maybe drinking one of the worst smoothies I've made in a while. It's so watery. I didn't do it right. Oh look, doesn't it's got greens in it. It's a whole thing. But so someday. So it's the blend. So some days today is for me and I have a full afternoon with the kids with like kid things that have to happen sometimes I'm fully in launch and I'm there and I think it's allowing for the nature of the date and your commitments to dictate instead of the rigidity of it looking a certain way or feeling like we have to balance something. Like balance is very hard, but blending means someday might be more bananas, someday might be more syrup, someday you might throw in some dates. I don't know, you know, if the eating of dates. And so that's the thing that I think is important. It's like I think asking for support. We used to live in villages because we weren't meant to do this all alone. And women never held the vastness of responsibility that we hold. Can I speak to that really fast?
- [28:21]
Tina Tower
Yeah.
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Jacqueline Snyder
Okay. So this is a first time I'm seeing this publicly. So we'll see what kind of what happens. But we know that only, well, I don't know. We talk about the 2%. So 2% of women owned businesses make it to a million dollars. 12% make it to 100,000 a year. So think about that. It's absolutely insane.
- [28:38]
Tina Tower
It's insane.
- [28:40]
Jacqueline Snyder
It's insane. And then we're always talking about the glass ceiling, but I believe the glass ceiling only exists when it's in somebody else's building. But we're entrepreneurs. We built our own building. We have our name on the door. So the question is like, how high is our ceiling? Is it really low? Is it really high? And so part of what I think is of course there's all the reasons why women owned businesses aren't. There's investors, finance opportunities, the seat at the table that have affected those numbers. But I also think we have a lower ceiling for ourselves. Even lower than the glass ceiling.
- [29:13]
Tina Tower
Yes.
- [29:14]
Jacqueline Snyder
And partially because especially you and I were in our same age as like in our 40s. We didn't grow up with examples of women, quote, unquote, doing it all, running multi million dollar brands and, and raising children and taking care of themselves and living longer. And so it's this idea of like expansion and modeling it for each other and showing it. But also we can't do it alone. And that's the, the biggest breaking point I think that we're at.
- [29:44]
Tina Tower
I 100% agree. I. It bothers me all the time that statistic of the lack of women making over a hundred thousand a year. Because when I started her Empire Builder, my goal was to get everyone to a million dollars a year.
- [29:56]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah.
- [29:57]
Tina Tower
And then I realized two years in that my goal was completely unrealistic. And a big part of that was that a lot of women didn't think it was possible for them. They just did not like that ceiling that you talked about was so low for them. And I think that is because a lot of the time women are Just so damn tired. And they're like, I can't imagine being able to do all of the things that I need to do in order to achieve a business of that level. Because I can't say yes to support or I don't have the support available, or I'm racked with guilt if I do it.
- [30:28]
Jaclyn Snyder
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yes. And I think there's two. And you probably see this also in your community. There's two massive fears that come up. If I tell a client, like, let's get you to $100,000 a year. There's two fears. Because I agree, $1 million is really stretchy. If I even ask my community, do you want $1 million? Because so many of them are makers. They literally are like, there's no way I can make $1 million.
- [30:49]
Tina Tower
There is no reason that every single female business owner shouldn't make over 100,000 a year.
- [30:55]
Jaclyn Snyder
No reason.
- [30:56]
Jacqueline Snyder
$8333 a month on average. Yes. A million percent. I'm there with you, so. Well, we're going to change the world, you and I.
- [31:02]
Tina Tower
Yes. This is our new floor for everybody.
- [31:06]
Jacqueline Snyder
Everyone. And so I think there's two reasons there's two fears. One is a fear of failure, which is the obvious fear. Well, what if I shoot for it? What if I try and it doesn't work out? There's, you know, I'm going to lose my money. I'm going to waste money. I'm. What are people going to think of me? Right?
- [31:23]
Tina Tower
I mean, I get that I launched yesterday. Welcome to adulting. My new program.
- [31:27]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yes.
- [31:27]
Tina Tower
Nobody bought it for three hours. And I got like three hours in and I was going, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, is it going to tank? Is nothing going to happen? I'm like, oh, this is going to be embarrassing. Okay, what are we going to do here? But my husband was laughing at me going, I think it's, like, hilarious that you never entertained the thought that it couldn't work. In my mind, it was always going to work really, really well. And so it's like, a lot of people wouldn't be disappointed or so surprised. I'm like, I expected to go like,
- [31:57]
Jacqueline Snyder
ping, ping, ping, ping.
- [31:58]
Tina Tower
Anyway, luckily, overnight it did, which was. Which was great. But for that moment, I think that fear would. Would stop a lot of people in going, you know, when we hit go on something, it's. It's like you said, that mirror is coming back of whether or not, like, did we win or did we lose.
- [32:14]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah. And also, how would anyone even know that it didn't work. Unless you know what I'm saying. Like, only you and your husband know what the pings look like or don't look like. And. Yeah, and so I think there's that fear of failure that limits people. And yes, I think you and I are cut from the same cloth where it's like, of course it's gonna work. So if it doesn't work the way we think.
- [32:34]
Tina Tower
Yeah, I'm, like, very confused.
- [32:36]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand.
- [32:40]
Tina Tower
This is not the way it's supposed to be.
- [32:42]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, it's obvious. But that's. But that's. That's amazing. But here's the other fear, and I think you've actually experienced it. So it's so important is the fear of success. What if it does work out? What if it gets so big that I can't handle it? I can't hold it. Because I hear a lot of, like, if it does do that one, I don't know enough. Which probably was a big. For me, I was vacillating between fear of success and fear of failure. What if I can't keep up? What is it going to take from me? That's a huge one. Like, if it's successful, I'm going to lose the parts of my life that I want. And so the glass ceiling again arrives because it's like, you're stuck in the middle. Where are you going? If you're afraid of succeeding, you're afraid of failing. You're actually just right there in the, like, not having the things that you want versus the opportunities of, like. We all know there's things in the past that we've done really well at. We haven't. But we learn from every single part of it. So it's. It's. It is. It's the mirror that's always reflecting back to us. That. That state versus, like, I was like, let's just blow the damn roof off the building. What if there is no cap to what we can create? Has a little bit of the naivete, how to get past it. Yeah, okay. I got a good tool. So our brains are always trying to keep us safe, right? So they're looking to the future and they're like, we don't know what's going to go on in the future. So all it has is detective keep pull from the past or our friend Mel Abraham. He said. He came on my show and he said, a lot of times limiting beliefs are caught and not taught.
- [34:20]
Jaclyn Snyder
Cool, right?
- [34:20]
Jacqueline Snyder
Because there's the stuff that your parents teach you and the world teaches you. And then the things that are caught. Example, I haven't seen women have multi million dollar companies or even let's go with a hundred thousand dollar a year revenue and raise families and take care of themselves and all the things. So there's a lot that we've caught and haven't been taught. So then we get to look, our brains are like, wait, don't go to the future. We don't know if you're going to fail. We don't know if you're going to succeed. So stop if you look to the past and I'll give you all a tool. I call it my power choice statement or a power choice statement. So you look to the past and you find an event in your life that you've made it through something hard that on the other side you learn through it. It could be something as simple as training for a marathon. I mean you were hiking
- [35:05]
Tina Tower
tallest peak in Australia.
- [35:06]
Jacqueline Snyder
Tallest peak in Australia. So let's, let's use that as an example. Okay.
- [35:10]
Tina Tower
It isn't actually that tall. It was like a nine hour hike.
- [35:16]
Jacqueline Snyder
It wasn't like an ever talk about that mirror moment of your. Like, it wasn't that. It was nine hour hike. Tina. An hour is a lot for people.
- [35:27]
Tina Tower
This is true. It was for me a couple years ago also.
- [35:31]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, but not a nine hour hike. So I mean I'll just give it as an example because I'm sure we could go into like other things. Like you know, when you had the, the business that, the franchise and all that. But as simple as hiking.
- [35:43]
Jaclyn Snyder
It could, but it could be made
- [35:44]
Jacqueline Snyder
it through a divorce. You left a full time job and went full time into an entrepreneur. A significant loss. So many massive events that have happened in our lives. And so you look back and then I want you to tell me five ways, like five versions of you that showed up in that way to make it through that hike. Like to train for it, to do it, to complete it. Like maybe you were brave, relentless, resilient, disciplined, joyful, powerful. So like what are five words that you would be?
- [36:14]
Tina Tower
Yeah, I would go all of those. I mean, yeah, it was surprising. You do do a lot of surprising things when you push your body, which I think is why people do crazy things like run marathons. I've never understood it before, but it does show you a lot about yourself. I'm not doing it anytime soon, but it does show you a lot about yourself and I think the discipline, like talking about self trust earlier that I would go for a two hour walk because I needed to get my training in to be able to do it. And keeping those promises was things that I haven't done in the past because I've gone, no work's more important. So keeping those promises to myself, like having that power, having that strength, having the optimism there, like the self belief, because every time I'd look at the hill and I go, I, I can't do that because in my mind I'd been trained, like I can't get my ass up that thing and, and now, now I can. Yeah.
- [37:06]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah. So it's looking back at that and the ways and I have like a whole process to take people through. But. But really it's looking back at the way that you were. Because again, our brains are trying to keep us safe. So if we give it something from past that it proves to you you did something really hard and made it on the other side and proved it to yourself, then you get to take that. Your brain there gets the, oh, no, wait, now that I'm on the precipice of change, I get to break through. It's that next level. If I could do and survive and thrive and come out on the other side of a better person doing that thing, then that's what takes you into this next version of yourself.
- [37:40]
Tina Tower
I love that. Yeah.
- [37:42]
Jacqueline Snyder
And it's remembering that. And that's the, that's so much of the, again, our limiting beliefs versus proving to our brains like, you got it, you've done it. Yeah, you need to trust yourself.
- [37:52]
Tina Tower
Yeah, I remember like a long, long time ago. So 2011. Yeah, I think 2011 or 2012, I did John Demartini's breakthrough experience. Did you ever do any John Demartini? He was like the personal development dude, like back then. And so I did a lot of his stuff. And he made us sit there like overnight. People were there till 2, 3 o' clock in the morning writing 200 reasons why. Like they've found proof that they could do the thing that they wanted to do so that it no longer becomes this, like, can I? But of course I'm going to. And I think like that practice is exactly why when I released welcome to Adulting that I'm like, there's nothing in my mind except success. Because of course it's going. Because it's. You get so used to spotting the things of the reasons why it's going to work out for you rather than the reasons why it's not.
- [38:46]
Jacqueline Snyder
And it goes back to trust and self trust of you have so much proof of all the things you've created in your life that have gotten you to hear that. Of course. And of course it might be iterations and it may not work and you might fall on your face and everything that I've experienced. Yeah. I mean, if you're not, you're not trying hard enough, it's not a big enough stretch, it's not a big enough vision. And so I think that's the naive part. You and I both became entrepreneurs super, super young, and so we just were naive in starting it. But then. But it's the. That version of us that we're always that. And in 2026 and beyond, you know, I get, sometimes I get scared about AI, but I'm like, I've always adapted. I've gone through two recessions in the States, you know, and grown businesses. So it's, it's just trusting myself that
- [39:32]
Tina Tower
I've got a way.
- [39:34]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah.
- [39:37]
Tina Tower
How has the, the notion of success changed for you? What does success mean? Like, mean to you and your life?
- [39:44]
Jacqueline Snyder
I'm going through that still right now.
- [39:47]
Jaclyn Snyder
I'll say
- [39:49]
Jacqueline Snyder
originally success was have the money, make them like, have. I'm in my dream house, but like, have the house, have the money enough to save, spend, invest. Right. I wanted enough for all of it.
- [40:04]
Tina Tower
Yeah.
- [40:05]
Jacqueline Snyder
I think success now is like measuring it against what I know to be true. And this is why I had moved from the east coast back to LA was you can always make more money, you can't make more time. And I knew that the time that I had with my mom and my grandma still alive was that I will trade. I would have traded anything in the world to go back to those moments. And so for, for success now is am I living the life in alignment with why I work as hard as I do? And you're such a model. I'm Elizabeth. Like, what would Tina Tower do? I used to tell you that because it was like, because it was like, you can shoot for the number and not live a life aligned or you can shoot for the number that allows you to live the aligned life. And that's where I'm kind of shuffling back to. Of course I like the numbers and I. But it's like the profitability, the take home, the lifestyle, because I won't get time back. Your sons are older now, but I think when I met you, your sons were closer to my son.
- [41:07]
Tina Tower
Talk about it.
- [41:08]
Jacqueline Snyder
I know, I know, I know, but it's like, makes me tear up at the moment.
- [41:14]
Jaclyn Snyder
But time Is like, when we look
- [41:16]
Jacqueline Snyder
at our children, we look the same, of course. Like, actually better than we probably did five years ago because we're just like, you know, yeah, but. But our children measure time. And so, yeah, success is the time of the people we love and, like, the reasons why we're doing this.
- [41:31]
Tina Tower
Yeah. I do think, though, there is an element where we have to experience, like, the wrong version of success first. I mean, I know I was saying to Matt, my husband, the other day, going, so when our business, like you mentioned before, that we had a real peak in that 2022, 2023 area, like, it was just that back end of COVID the online industry was pumping. I had never had so much spare money in all my life, and I spent so much of it and I had so much fun. Like, those that say money doesn't buy happiness, I'm like, what are they doing with it? Because it's really fun. But then after I did that for, you know, probably about six months and then went, okay, that's enough now. Now I can make better choices and invest and do the thing. Mind you in saying that I didn't really, you know, I don't have designer handbags. I spent nearly all of it on traveling. Really?
- [42:27]
Jacqueline Snyder
That's your value, right? Like, value. I am a fashion designer, so I never wanted to invest in, like, designer clothes because clothes change, but bags to me. I remember when I was in my 20s, on the. I literally painted it on top of the doorpost inside of my office. Chanel ain't going to buy itself for kids. I wanted Chanel and it actually took Mina and I. I think it was 2019, we'd been in business. Chanel could be bought and I still didn't do it from. Again, mirroring. I have a lot of scarcity and so I could do it, but I didn't. So I remember rolling into. I was wearing Uggs and a beanie and I looked so not put together. And I roll into the Chanel store and I'm like, I'm going to buy a Chanel bag looking like this. Where they probably weren't taking me seriously. But I'm like, maybe this is what wealthy women do. Like, they don't have to dress up to go buy a bag. Nothing, nothing to prove. And so I took a picture. I still have this picture of myself looking all funny. I'm like, this is funny girl looking with the bag on my arm. And that was important to me. Now it's. I mean, I will say I treated myself recently to, like, A bag. Because I do love bags, but that's about. And I love travel. But the shift that I've had with exactly what you said, it's like. But I also really, because of the way I grew up, I really yearned for safety and security. So that's where I got to transition into. And also always. So my nervous system stays stable.
- [43:50]
Tina Tower
Yeah, I love that.
- [43:51]
Jacqueline Snyder
Love that.
- [43:52]
Tina Tower
Okay, my last question for you. If there is a woman who's listening, who's in the middle of a bit of a business identity shift, like, we know things are shifting. We know we all need to pivot and adapt. What would you want her to know?
- [44:07]
Jacqueline Snyder
I would say I want to get this tattooed on my arm. Trust the process. It's been a massive. There's like a few, a few lines that I use. I was in this transformation group, and one of the things that's. Trust the process. The universe is rigged in your favor.
- [44:20]
Tina Tower
Yes.
- [44:21]
Jacqueline Snyder
Little Woo. But like, I think trusting the process, meaning trusting the process of even the breakdown for me, trusting the crash out that I had, that I, I, I got to have that when I had it so that I could build something more sustainable.
- [44:35]
Tina Tower
Yes.
- [44:36]
Jacqueline Snyder
And in my own identity. Yeah. And then I think the other side of that is this concept of 100% as possible a hundred percent of the time. So yesterday, with getting Adam Pascal to make this video in 30 minutes and do it, it's like you're going to, they say, you know, you're going to miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So it's like, what if everything is possible? And this is what I work with, with my students is these, like, stretchy things that are almost unbelievable goals. I'll give you an example. We, in this program I was in, they had two hours and we had to set a certain amount of people. We're going to feed, like, the unhoused. We're going to go feed them. We could not, we could not use our own money to, to get the food. And we had to actually hands, like, we had to hand food to a certain amount of people. So originally we were like, there were 20 of us. We're like, maybe get 400 people, which is already stretchy in two hours. Then we raised it. Do you know how many people we fed in two hours?
- [45:29]
Tina Tower
How many?
- [45:30]
Jacqueline Snyder
20 people. 1200 people.
- [45:34]
Tina Tower
Wow. Well done.
- [45:36]
Jacqueline Snyder
Just my kids and I driving around, fed 30 people and raised $5,000 by ourselves in two hours. So these, these stretches of like, kind of things that you're like, there's no way. When you push yourself into the no way. You start to prove to yourself what's possible and you collapse timelines. And so what I want to tell the person who's struggling with identity is if you trust the process of this. And I came to you because I knew that you had already gone through a massive shift once in your life in this way. And I was like. And what I loved about what you did was like, it wasn't about like gigantic numbers and pushing. It was like, how does it. How do you have a. A life, like a beautiful life, living a life worth living? And you were living that. And you're always so joyful and happy and like, just, you're like. It's like the Dolce vita. Like, you just the passion in life. And so I think it's obviously if they're listening your show, they already. They're already attracted to that about you. But again, if we need to be modeled this, then it's finding community, finding women that inspire you, that model it for you, and to know that whatever the journey you're on is meant for you. So that on the other side, the same way that I talked about, because I go back to the power choice and it's this exercise, but at every moment, you choose to be that version of you that steps into that next version, and it's always on the other side of a choice and then be supported in it.
- [46:57]
Tina Tower
What a way to finish. Thank you so much. You're so wise and so wonderful. I'm loving this. I'm loving this Jacqueline Snyder 2.0 version.
- [47:08]
Jacqueline Snyder
Thank you. It's so good.
- [47:10]
Tina Tower
You're gonna. That's gonna be a keynote and you're gonna get out there in the world and help so many women with this. Because I think it is, you know, it's something that we need to unlock and the.
- [47:19]
Jacqueline Snyder
Yeah.
- [47:20]
Tina Tower
The floor of the. Let's. Let's raise 12% of women, like making $100,000. Let's get it to 100%. We can do that.
- [47:29]
Jacqueline Snyder
100%. We can't. And that's. And I think that's the shift that we get to make too. Instead of the 2%, it's like, let's go for the 12%. Like the lower hanging fruit in the way of, like, that can be so obvious. And.
- [47:38]
Jaclyn Snyder
Yeah.
- [47:39]
Jacqueline Snyder
And I'll say like, listen to the show. Listen to the product boss. Because there are also lots of conversations and episodes that are this mirror work and identity and transformation through our businesses. Of course, if you make a physical product, I'VE got all the strategy on that, but I have all the links underneath the separate. But that's really where I would like to go is this. And that's what you and I will talk about off camera. But like, really, this, this version, this next Jacqueline 2.0 of like, what's next for the impact that I get to have in the world.
- [48:06]
Tina Tower
Amazing. Thanks, Jack. I'll see you next week.
- [48:09]
Jacqueline Snyder
Okay.
- [48:12]
Jaclyn Snyder
I just want to say thank you to Tina again for giving us the ability to share this episode with our community as well. I hope you enjoyed the interview and really got to see another side of where I'm going in being your mentor and being your coach in the strategy that's really going to shift what the world needs. I believe in 2026 and beyond because truthfully, our businesses will only grow as much as we do and there's that limiting belief of the glass ceiling. And so I hope this episode was helpful. Please follow Tina on Instagram. I'll drop her links in the show notes and follow her show her Empire Builder with Tina Tower. And my friends, if you were like, gosh, I love this and I love this kind of, you know, this episode, please forward it to somebody, someone who needs and gets to hear this message that we shared about. Please send it to that person that really knows that they have a big dream on their heart, that they have a business that they wanna grow, but maybe there's some other beliefs keeping them limited. And if you're ready and you wanna work with mentors and strategists and really uplevel your business while also up, leveling, leveling yourself, I invite you to book a call with my team. So all you have to do is go to TheProductBoss.com BookACall it's TheProductBoss.com BookACAll and this is really for established businesses. So if your business is heading towards your first a hundred thousand dollars six figures, multi six figures or seven figures, go ahead and book that call. And my team is waiting on the other side to see how we can support you in blowing the roof off of your business building and raising your ceiling and really having this incredible business that you dream of. Okay, see you in the next one. Thank you for being here and listening all the way through the Product Boss podcast. If you love our show and it has helped you in any way in your business, would you mind doing two things for us? Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review. Reviews help other product entrepreneurs know that
- [50:05]
Jacqueline Snyder
this is the place to to be
- [50:06]
Jaclyn Snyder
to grow their businesses and realize that they're not alone. And we know that you all know that a five star and honest review helps you sell more products to more people so you know that your reviews help us reach more listeners around the world. Remember what we give is what we receive and we are all about helping each other in the product boss community. We are all in this together. We would be so appreciative of you if you could could take the time
- [50:32]
Jacqueline Snyder
right now to subscribe, leave a review
- [50:35]
Jaclyn Snyder
and even share this episode on social or someone you know so we can impact more lives. And remember subscribing means that you will get notified each time we release a new episode so you never miss a thing. You have helped us grow and climb into the top 10 of all marketing podcasts and together we can keep climbing. Thank you friends and remember there is
- [50:54]
Jacqueline Snyder
room at the top for all of us.