← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
This year I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol and so I decided to commit to Dry January to really kickstart 2025 and just test myself. Heineken 00 is the perfect companion for Dry January because you feel like you're still participating when you're out for dinner with friends, out for drinks, whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals. I'm a big beer fan so I also love the taste of Heineken 00 + being alcohol free you can enjoy whenever refreshment calls Heineken 00 local Heineken retailer or for delivery@heineken.com you must be 21+ to purchase. Enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with Dry January.
- [00:42]
Oz Velozian
Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join Us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:12]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls this January. Join me for our third annual January Jumpstart series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your All Access past To step fully into the possibilities of the new year, listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:43]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties in on all the behind the scenes tea stuff that didn't make it to the live TV taping. What went down in rehearsals, who said what? At the after party, you're going to hear it all. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:14]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New Listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here. Back for another episode. As we break down the psychology of our 20s today, let's cut straight to the chase. I want talk about creative passion projects, creative side hustles, creative hobbies, the things that we are called to deeply create and express and make, and basically how to find a balance between making time for creation in our busy world and also needing to work, needing to pay our bills. How do we find the balance between practicality and passion? How can we hold both of these things at once without feeling our creative endeavors are always the first thing to basically be sacrificed? I get so many questions about this, specifically from obviously people in their 20s who are facing this dilemma of do I pursue the thing that I'm really passionate about, some creative act, some entrepreneurial idea, or do I stick with what is expected of me, what is very traditional, what is very stable? And specifically the questions I often get are around how we can turn our passions into our jobs, when to take the risk and pursue whatever it is you want to pursue. Art, music, writing, podcasting full time, but also so many dms asking me for time management strategies, how to deal with creative blocks, how to know when financially you are ready to pursue your creative passion full time. So I really thought that it deserved its own episode because I can speak really deeply to this from experience. If you are new to the show and you don't know the origin story of the psychology of your 20s, this podcast started all the way back in 2021, so almost four years ago. And when I first started it, I wasn't working. I was fun employed, basically. I was convinced I was going to take a gap year and then I ended up working in a corporate job for around a year and a half, almost two years, whilst I was doing the podcast full time as well. So I was working a full time job and I was putting out this show and I was, I don't know, I don't like to say, building the platform. The show was just growing as I poured more love into it basically. And at some point I had to basically make the decision, do I leave the steadiness and the stability, especially the financial stability of my full time job for the podcast, or do I kind of just, you know, continue to make this my side hustle? And I really found that every single day I was so excited to get home and just work on the podcast and I really didn't care about work anymore and it was just impossible to hold both of those things at Once. So I decided to quit my job and to pursue what, you know, is a creative passion for me. Like, podcasting is actually a real creative force and there's so much creativity and inspiration involved in coming up with ideas. I find the research to be quite a fun process. So I want to really talk about what I learned from that experience and how you can maybe take my story and elements of it and apply it to your own journey with your creative project or passion. And maybe the goal for you is to make that passion into a full time career. Maybe it's not. I think, regardless, this episode will have a lot for you. I also want to discuss some of the many barriers, hurdles, boundaries that we kind of clash against in this space. When we are someone who is creative and passionate about something and doing something quite artistic with our free time. You know, there's going to be a lot of loud forces and voices telling you that you can't do it, or, you know, voices from within, doubting yourself, imposter syndrome, artistic blocks. Also things like money and time. There is a real limit sometimes onto where our creative passion can take us because of these boundaries and barriers. So I really want to use this episode to basically teach you how you can use psychology to take yourself from a place of perfectionism and fear, really, to a place of creation and abundance and consistency. I'm very, very excited for this episode. Some of the research and the surrounding, this is just fascinating. There is this whole area of psychological research that is focused on creativity and how we as humans practice it, and also on how we make a living out of it and what that does to the relationship. So there is a lot to look forward to. Without further ado, let's get into it. So you want to put your creative passion basically at the center of your life. That's probably why you are listening to this podcast. And let me just firstly say that is amazing. That is amazing. I am fully supportive of this decision. I don't even know you and I still think it's a great idea. But before we talk about how to make this possible, let's talk about some of the difficulties that you might encounter or that you probably already have, because I think they bear mentioning. And let's just get them out of the way. Let's get the fear part out of the way. So the first big worrying thing that I think we encounter is naysayers. Naysayers, people who are pessimistic about your journey, pessimistic about your chances of success. There is always, always going to be someone who does not believe in you, who says that you should be more careful, you should be more realistic. Maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a partner. They'll call your ambitions, you know, cute. Or they obviously don't think you're capable. Maybe it' someone online of someone who calls themselves a friend. I know that sometimes these people, if we give them the benefit of the doubt, are genuinely worried about you. But don't let their doubts become your own. I think that for every person who does believe in you, there's always going to be that one person who has to voice every concern they have, or worse yet, who actively really does try to bring you down, truly gives you all their judgment and makes it your burden. And I really want to tell you right now, pay those judgments no mind at all. Because often if this is someone who does not know you or care about you, it is a massive projection and reflection of what they are feeling internally about their own capabilities and their own dreams. You know, the people who I have encountered, who have the most and the worst things to say and who did have the worst things to say about my own journey to quit my full time job to the podcast full time, most of them actually had grand ambitions of their own that they had abandoned. And you know, those are the people who expressed the most doubt about my goals. Because I think somewhere deep down they kind of wanted me to quit. They wanted me to join them in this boat. This boat filled with people who for whatever reason, and many of them were good reasons, but they had given up on their artistic, creative dreams. So this idea that naysayers are projecting their own insecurities around their inability to follow their passions, there is proof of this. And the proof for this comes from a study from the University of Alaska which examined 210 individuals and found that those who self reported higher levels of insecurity, they were more likely to openly criticize the work of others. And not only were they more likely to criticize, their criticisms were harsher than other people's. And often this is the very important part. Often the people they were most critical of were those whose work they thought was better than their own. So this is describing something called ego defense in psychology sometimes, often we criticize others as a way of protecting our ego from feeling devalued. You know, so even if my work sucks, if I can convince myself and convince someone else that their work also sucks and sucks more, well, then I won't feel so bad. Do not listen to them. My saying is, always prove them wrong with a Smile on your face. And that is kind of the sweetest revenge, I think. Everyone says you can't until you do. And then suddenly they will say that you. They were your best friend, you know, they suddenly have always believed in you. But you have to know that you believed in yourself the whole time. And you were doing it because you loved it, because you felt like you could rise above all of this judgment, all of these doubts, and just do it yourself. So, naysayers, that's a big one. Another big barrier to pursuing our creative passion, whether it's full time or part time or in our spare time, is lacking inspirational motivation. This is otherwise known as writer's block, creative block, artistic block. I think we've all come across this in some capacity. You know, you really want to make something. You finally have the time to do it. You've devoted time to your craft. You're sitting down in front of the blank page, and nothing is coming to you. So to understand why this happens and why so often, we can sit there and say, you know, I just want a big idea. I want to make something huge. I want to have this, you know, big thing come to my mind. We have to understand how the brain really plays a role in creativity. So at the forefront of our creativity is the prefrontal cortex. You hear about this a lot. It's basically the biggest cortex. It's right at the front, and it's responsible for decision making, abstract thinking, and that is really what generates new ideas. That and this other area of the brain called the default mode network. This is what is used during introspection and daydreaming. And these areas collaborate with our executive network to basically take an idea that we've had that's very, you know, abstract and not quite tangible and make it into something. However, when we are stressed, when our cognitive resources are drained by work, by our busy lives, by financial stress, by pushing ourselves too hard for too long, those areas of the brain are overwhelmed. And stress is the biggest factor in this because it can really constrains what is meant to be a free exploration of ideas, and it stifles creative risk taking. But stress also just basically shuts down the creative parts of our brain because, you know, we do have limited cognitive resources. And if there is some bigger pressing thing in our life that is causing emotional distress or chaos or overwhelming us, our brain's gonna say, let's focus on that first, and we can get to the creativity later. You know, I like to think of this as like a business going through financial strife. The first like departments that are cut anytime you see a business failing are gonna be the creative departments. It's gonna be the areas that hire artists and freethinkers and marketers and all those things. And your brain is operating on that same, like, weirdly economic principle. But also maybe the brain, like these systems came first. Chicken and egg problem. Basically, your brain is saying, creativity is a luxury we can't afford right now. So here's what you need to prioritize in those moments. And it's not creation. It's not pushing yourself harder. It's getting back to basics, taking care of yourself. And that might mean not creating for a while, but putting all that time and energy that you would spend worrying about not creating and not doing enough into getting outdoors, into cooking yourself Nutritious food, getting 8 hours of sleep mo your body in ways that you like, hydrating, and more importantly, addressing those bigger stresses that are demanding your attention. And then once you have those basic needs, then you can add novelty. Novelty is the secret source of inspiration and creativity and everything that comes out of that. You need new, novel, fresh experiences to bring about fresh ideas. Simple. Very, very simple. But I think a lot of the time we. We feel like we're never going to be inspired again. Or we put ourselves in environments, mental and physical, that don't allow for inspiration because they're too restrictive. So if you're finding that you're having a creative, artistic idea block, go out and explore and be inspired and then come back. It's like, anytime I go on holiday, I always. And I'm like, I'll go on holiday and I'll say to myself, all right, we're not gonna work. Like, no work. Two weeks off, and suddenly I have, like, every single amazing idea that I've ever had that is really, you know, your brain finally being able to relax and making space for that. I'm kind of going on with these barriers, but I want to talk about this last one because it's probably the biggest, and it's money and time. If we only had a million dollars, if we only had 48 hours in every day, we would have so much more time to put towards our creative entrepreneurial endeavors. You know, I think every single creative person I know struggles with this balancing act between necessity and passion. You know, you want to spend all of your time focused on whatever you're working on, but you have to work, you have to make money. It's a real privilege, really, to be able to, you know, devote yourself full time to your creative passion. It's A luxury that not many of us have. But I want to say that doesn't mean that you're not serious and committed to what you're doing. There are so many people who find ways to fit their creative passions around the necessities of their life. You know, some ways that I've seen people do this, this is how I did it. I worked part time, but it was nine days, a fortnight. So instead of 10 days, a fortnight, I just took a day off every two weeks because I really couldn't afford to do anything more than that. And I would spend that extra day and I'd turn it into a long weekend, and I would have time that would be devoted to creation. You know, if you can do three, four days a week and have even more time for it, that's even better. Devoting one day of the weekend to your creative job or creative passion. I actually have a friend and I really love that she does this. She read an article, I remember her telling me about this. She read this article a little while back about mini retirements. So instead of waiting till you're 65, 65 to retire, there's this whole group of people who do infrequent retirement chapters of their life. So they'll work really hard for a couple of years, and then they will retire for six months and go and travel or do something creative or put that time into their business or whatever it is that they're doing. And it's kind of like an alternative to just waiting till, you know, you're perhaps less able and a bit older to do all the things that you wanted throughout your life. She works really, really hard for six months, and when I say really hard, she works three jobs at once. And then she takes two to three months off to paint and to go to artistic or creative retreats. So there are ways to do this. And you are, I really want to stress, you are no less creative because you have to put your ideas aside every now and again. You are no less capable of realizing your creative passion because you have to work a job, you know, because you have to work a job you're not passionate about to make money, to do what you're really passionate about in your free time. Like, sometimes I feel like we think we're cheating or we're failing at being a creative person. I don't think the creativity and that spirit ever goes away. I think it's something that we hold deep in us even as necessity, really. Cause so if you're in that position or you're afflicted by some of those aforementioned barriers. Let's really get into these five tips I have for you today for pursuing your creative passion. Let's start with possibly the most important one in my mind, which is don't focus on perfection. Focus on just making something in any form, even if someone else is doing it better. I was talking to someone recently, we were seated next to each other at this dinner about this business that they really want to launch. And I'm not going to give up her business idea because it's very, very smart. But she kept hitting this roadblock. She was telling me there was this mental roadblock that kept coming up for her, which was that she wasn't ready to fully announce this brilliant thing she'd been working on for years unless it was entirely perfect, because if it wasn't perfect, she was going to fail. So she kept taking a few more months, a few more months, a few more months to really work on it. You know, the timing had to be right. Her product had to have zero faults. And maybe you can guess where this story is going, but by the time she was ready to launch, someone else had already done it and they had, in her mind, done it better. And she really fell into what I call the perfectionism fallacy. And this is a cognitive bias or a mistaken belief that something is either perfect or it is worthless and anything that is not perfect is entirely unacceptable, does not deserve to be seen, does not deserve to be acknowledged. This belief really afflicts those of us who have a real deep sense of failure, who really adopt a lot of all or nothing thinking, who have a lot of excessive, negative self talk. It also affects those of us who have often tied our worth to tangible achievements. So I'm thinking, you know, our classic overachievers, gifted children, straight A students. Creative endeavors are often really difficult for people like us because there is no rules for what is good and bad. There's no grading scheme, there's no way to tell if you're doing well. And even if someone says, you know, wow, I really like your art, I really like your music, I'm really inspired by you, I think you're amazing, we still have this tendency to not believe them because we can really see all of our faults. You know, we can see every tiny mistake that they have missed. You know, that's what the spotlight effect is in psychology. It feels like there is this big mental beam shining down on every thing that is not perfect. And can't everyone else see it? You know, everyone else is going to see that, of course, there's also a bit of an element of comparison and maybe, if we can admit it to ourselves, a bit of envy here as well, a belief that there's someone else out there doing it better, so why should we even try? I want to tell you this. Humans have basically evolved to compare and judge ourselves against others. There have been so many studies showing us that by our third birthday, children start comparing themselves physically to others. And around the age of seven or eight, they start comparing themselves based on characteristics like athleticism, intelligence, humor, and they also start to become competitive. Now this occurs regardless of culture, country, ethnicity, religion. There is some element of comparison that is hardwired into us psychologically and socially, and it is a huge, massive killer of creative pursuit and passion. Because if you think that someone is already doing it better and that you can't do it unless it's perfect, why even try? So I want you to take that mindset and shift it, because perfectionism is basically procrastination in disguise. So what I want you to do is set yourself a challenge. A challenge of consistency over perfection. So this is your challenge for the next month. Are you ready? Every day, I want you to make something. Even if it is the worst thing you have ever made, even if it is a doodle, even if it is an Instagram post you made on Canva, even if it is one line of a lyric, one line of a book, commit to this one thing that every single day you are going to create. Even when you think you don't have time, even when you can't be bothered, that is your challenge. This is the advice I always give people who message me and are like, oh, I want to start a podcast. They always say, what's your biggest tip? And what I say to them is, choose one day a week that you want to post and post something every single week. Even if it is a three minute voice memo on your phone. Because this challenge, this activity, gets you past the mental roadblock of needing to be particular and perfect and needing to ensure that everything is polished before you show it to anyone or before you say it's done. There was an amazing paper that I stumbled across in researching this episode, published in 2015, and it's called your best life. Perfectionism is the bane of happiness. And actually, it's not a psychology paper. It came from an orthopedic surgeon talking about perfectionism in the medical community. And he also dove into this discussion around how creativity, joy, inspiration are all so much more abundant when we don't let our perfection you know, caution or regulate us when we give ourselves mental permission to make mistakes, even if it's just for 30 days, suddenly you give yourself the gift of an internal environment that is free of judgment and that is full of acceptance. So basically, what you say is, okay, you know, we can go back to being a perfectionist and hating ourselves and shaming ourselves for things not being perfect in 30 days, but for this period, this just challenged period, I'm just going to be focused on making. That is my goal. And it really forces you to overcome what is often a mental challenge to creativity. It also prioritizes regular incremental progress, which I think we all know is a much bigger contributor to success than waiting for the moments where you can just make huge, big actions all at once. The person I actually think of when I think of this consistency challenge is a creator called Casey Neistat. And if you know who this is, drop a comment in, like, the Spotify box right now and say, I know who this is, because he is amazing, and you might be familiar with him, but if you aren't, please check him out. Back in 2014, 2015, I remember watching his videos, and at the time, he committed to posting a YouTube video every single day for a year. And he went on to do this for, I think, three to four years. Honestly, it's incredible. Just actually, he started off as a really good filmmaker, but over time, you can also see how his craft improved and he starts to have more ideas and not to judge those ideas, because he cannot wait to perfect them. He cannot wait for a better idea to come along, because part of this challenge was that he only had 24 hours to execute it to action this idea. So that really put him. And from an observer's point of view, it put him in this place of real creative joy and abundance and inspiration and also motivation, because it was like, okay, I have this challenge that I've set that kind of makes it fun, but also puts the pressure on. And now I have freedom to just make something because it doesn't need to be perfect. So I would really, really ask you to do that. My second tip is also, if you are still struggling, it's to create a ritual around whatever creative thing you do, something that can help put you in the right mood and make you feel inspired. So this could be lighting a specific incense to prime your brain. I did this when I was writing my book. I would light this specific incense, and I would basically say, I have to write for as long as the incense is burning. And often by the time it was done, I wouldn't even notice because I was so in the zone. You can also create or have a specific place in your house that you can make cozy, that is your creative space, or have a specific cafe or a desk in your library that you go to create a studio, a class, some environment, some ritual that is associated with the behavior that you want to perform, which is to be creative. So this is actually called context based learning or motivation in psychology. And researchers actually discovered this and the benefit that it had by looking at students, specifically high school students, who would study in the same spot every day and how those who did this really helped their brain to actually lock into study mode so they could get started on whatever they were doing faster and they could maintain that focus state for longer because of the context that they were in. It was priming them to study. Basically that was their study spot. Their brain was focused on that when they were in that space. And you can use those same principles to lock into the creative process. Some other ritual ideas is having a specific outfit, like painters. Have a smock or have like overalls, have a specific creative playlist. Go for a run before you want to, you know, make music or write or paint or do ceramics or whatever it is. Go for a dance to get into the right headspace. You know, I've used all of these techniques and they really do work. Okay, so I have been rambling for a long time. We're going to take a quick break, but when we return, I have three more valuable tips for you, maybe even a sneaky fourth one actually. To do with finances. To do with money and what I wished someone had told me about managing my money as a creator and as someone who is pursuing their creative passion before I quit my full time job. So stay with us. You know, I love having a cheeky drink with friends, post work, or a beer with dinner. But this year I have committed to completing Dry January to start the new year off fresh and to really kind of kick start the lifestyle I want to have for the next 12 months. Heineken 00 is the perfect companion for this journey because it has 0.0% alcohol. So I can still socialize, enjoy myself, get out there without feeling like I'm missing out. Plus, it genuinely actually tastes very, very delicious. My fridge is now stocked with Heineken 00 and friends of mine will even join me for an evening or for an afternoon going alcohol free. Free. If you are also taking part in Dry January this year or just looking for your new favorite drink, Heineken 00 is it Heineken 00 is available at your local Heineken retailer or for delivery@heineken.com you must be 21+ to purchase. Enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with dry January.
- [30:24]
Oz Velozian
Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Os Velozian, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical but obsessively intrigued.
- [30:35]
Nikki Glaser
And I'm Cara Price, the other new host and I'm ready to adopt early.
- [30:39]
Oz Velozian
And often on tech stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.
- [30:50]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a big, very rough proxy for a complex reality.
- [31:00]
Ed Zitron
How is it possible that the world's.
- [31:03]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
New energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
- [31:08]
Nikki Glaser
Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you.
- [31:13]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
Understand how tech is changing our world.
- [31:15]
Nikki Glaser
And what you need to know to survive the singularity.
- [31:18]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
So join us.
- [31:19]
Oz Velozian
Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:24]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details. I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners and dish. What happened backstage? What went down? The things people are already talking about. The things that people should be talking about. I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes. What went down in the rehearsals? Who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm gonna spill it. All secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [32:17]
Ed Zitron
Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of The Better Offline Podcast and this January we're going on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada to cover the Consumer Electronics show, tech's biggest conference. Better Offline CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or the biggest trends, but an unvarnished look of what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in 2025. Interrogating their narratives alongside a remarkable cast of industry talent and award winning journalists, we'll have daily episodes on the ground, interviews and special panels covering everything from the BS of AI to the ways in which race and gender play into how people are treated in the tech industry. And at these conferences I'll be joined by David Roth of Defector and the writer Edward Ongueso Jr. With appearances from behind the Bastards, Robert Evans, It Could Happen. Here's Gare Davis and a few surprise guests throughout the show. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcast from. And check out betteroffline.com.
- [33:15]
Unknown Speaker (possibly a podcast host)
One thing I wish someone had told me when I went full time with the podcast was actually how lonely it was going to be. About three months in I really had this realization. You know, I think we tend to romanticize, you know, making our creative project or our creative passion our full time job and how much freedom we're going to have. We romanticize it and we forget that, you know, there are days where you will not talk to anyone. There were moments when I would not talk to anyone but myself, obviously until 6pm when my roommates would get home and I would literally be almost sitting at the door like panting like a dog waiting for them to come in and like play with me because I was so starved for connection. So I definitely think that when I was working a full time corporate job, I took for granted the community that was really innate in that space and which was essentially formed by being trauma bonded or in the trenches together. I remember that same time around three months in, I met up with some friends of mine who are also podcasters and we met up for lunch and I looked at them and I was like, are you guys really, really lonely? And both of them were like, yes, I am so lonely. We are so lonely. So tip number three for pursuing your creative passion, whether it's full time, part time, casually, it can get lonely. So create community to keep you inspired and motivated and seen. I guess. So why is this community so important? I think community is just at the foundation, at the core, at the center of our purpose. And our needs as humans. And whilst you may have community in terms of family and friends, you can also really benefit from a specific community who are operating towards the same goal, or this, or the greater ambition as you are, but also who you can share your problems and your rants with. You know, oh, I'm getting so stuck at this point. I'm getting rejected. I'm struggling with hate online, I'm struggling with this specific technique. Sometimes you want someone who gets it the way that you've experienced it. There is an amazing article by the Harvard Business Review that talks about how community can be a quote, survival tool and a way to get through challenging things together. And often a lot of the research on this does look at the workplace. So many studies are done in this space because it's where people have a shared interest, a shared industry, shared skill level. But we see time and time again that when you have people you care about and who care about you in a workplace, staff turnover reduces, burnout reduces, people are happier, there is greater employee retention. And we can take that example within the workplace and we can apply it to a creative community. When you make friends and you have so called colleagues, you will be better for it. That advice, obviously it means nothing if I don't give you practical tips. So I'll tell you how I would do this if I had to do it again. I would join workshops. I would go on a retreat, like a small. Even if it's a weekend retreat with other people in the space that I want to work in, I would email people who I admire saying I love their work and ask to collaborate. That's kind of really giving that meme, you know, it's like, why don't you just call Taylor up? But I mean, more like people in your city, people in your community who you think are doing cool things like network the shit out of it. And Instagram, Instagram is like a creative's best friend for building community. And I truly mean that. Follow the people that you love, send them a dm saying, oh my, you know, I really admire your work. If you want to get coffee or anything, I'm down. Go to those community events that are centered on your craft, you know, a market, go to a play, those kinds of things. And, you know, nowadays I have a small office space that I pay like $50 a week for with four of my friends. And all of them are also podcasters, authors, designers, writers. And it is so nurturing. I've noticed a massive shift in my mental health, in my emotional well being, from Basically addressing the creative loneliness and the loneliness that is innate in creative life. Sometimes I think this is the fourth tip that we're up to now, maybe the fifth, but this one's very, very important. Please don't push yourself to a place of burnout or unenjoyment in pursuit of success. You know, when you start feeling like what you're doing is a burden, take a step back. You and creativity have a relationship. And I got that quote from a book by Elizabeth Gilbert called Big Magic. How many times have I spoken about that book on this podcast? I cannot tell you, but it's so true. You have a relationship with your creativity and it needs to be nurtured, like a romantic relationship. You know, those times when you and your partner are just constantly getting into arguments or with the parent, you know, or with a sibling or a friend or a roommate. You're just so obviously irritated at each other and you're so obviously frustrated. You don't try and fix that by spending more time together. You take a step back, you go for a walk, you spend the afternoon apart. And you have to do the same with whatever it is you're pursuing or creating. You need to respect the fact that sometimes you need space and stop pushing. You know, creative burnout, it happens in stages. You know, stage one is what we call the honeymoon stage, where you're kind of enjoying almost that feeling of pushing yourself until you get to stage two. Stage three, chronic stress, or stage five, which is habitual burnout. You are unable to escape a burnout cycle. So make sure you look out for those early signs, especially if you are self employed, feeling resentful to, towards what you're doing, not getting joy from it anymore, just wanting to be done. You don't care about the progress, the process, or the outcome. Like no part of it is happy or enjoyable to you. Stress, headaches, neglecting your own needs. When those things go unmanaged, it can really destroy your care for something altogether and you never want to do it again. I always use this case study, this example of basketball players and people in the U.S. basketball players in the U.S. who get paid to play basketball at college, who are on scholarships. Basically. So often those basketball teams are made up of people who are on scholarships and then people who just play for fun, but they're really, really good. And you want to know the biggest way to guarantee that someone will never play basketball or any sport again after they leave university or after they leave high school. It is to force them to play and to make them feel like they are obligated to play, to not give them space between them and the sport. And the same thing goes for your creative endeavor. I would also say try different mediums to keep it fun. Like we said, creativity thrives on rest and novelty as well. So if you're a jewelry maker, try ceramics for a bit. If you do illustrations, try doing some coloring in. I recently bought these adult coloring in books. They're really, really simple and like, I just cannot explain how much joy this brings me and how when I'm doing it, I get into this real flow state and my mind comes up with so many other ideas. If you play trumpet, maybe try writing the lyrics to a song. Keep those creative neural pathways active and alive and not entirely consumed and restricted by the need to produce and be successful in your chosen area and to basically just like keep trying to drag along an exhausted horse. I don't think that's a metaphor, but I think you know what I mean. Make sure that you keep it light and fun at times, even when things are getting stressful. Let's finally talk about the big M. Let's talk about money. We cannot talk about pursuing our creative passion without talking about how that is going to influence our relationship to our finances. Now, if you want to know specifically the psychology about this and what your money language might be and the psychology behind your relationship with money, we have a full episode on that. It's titled How Money Impacts Our Mental Health. I think it's episode 226. So if you're looking for the psychology, go and listen to that episode after this. But I specifically want to talk like practical advice that I have. Practical advice for managing your money in your 20s. As someone who also wants to pursue their passion project, this is the biggest tip I have. Save more money than you think you will need. Do not immediately quit your job. Go part time before you quit your job. This is a big one. The big, biggest piece of advice. If things are taking off for you, if you're really, really excited, just wait a couple of months and just go part time and just see how you adjust to it and save as much money as you can before you quit. Quit the stable job. Something that I truly believe in, it's a huge core part of my belief system about how to approach our 20s is that you can still take risks without them necessarily being spontaneous. Like you can take a calculated risk. You can think through the risk that you want to make. Be that quitting your job, doing your creative passion full time, just make sure that you have thought it through Put money aside continually through that period. Rule of thumb I had, and this is not necessarily what you should do, but I had four months of income saved up before I quit because I was like, if this totally goes to shit and I lose my interest in this, I just suddenly don't want this to be my job and I can't make money off of it. At least I have a four month buffer to kind of figure things out. That was really actually very important for me because I ended up, you know, not really making as like not really getting paid for different contracts for a while. So it was good to have that money that I could rest back on. And as someone who is self employed, this is more as a tip for people who are already doing their creative passion full time. Put money into your retirement savings. Something that I think we struggle with in our 20s is thinking long term. We only tend to do it when we're really stressed. You know, we worry about the future and we worry where we're going to be and who we're going to be with and are we going to be successful. We don't necessarily think about what it's going to be like to be 65 and no longer really be able to work a job and how we're going to deal with that. I'm so fortunate that I live in Australia where we have something called super, which is like mandatory retirement, saving from your employer. But when you're self employed, that's your job, so make sure that you continue to do that. And as you're getting established as an artist, as a musician, as a writer, as any of those, you know, any of those careers and areas, insert your own. Really ask your family and friends to support your work as well. Now that can mean financially, that can mean, hey, can you buy my poetry book? Can you come to my reading? Can you come to my stand up show? Can you pay for a ticket? Ticket? But also emotionally and in their social networks. So I got a really amazing question from someone the other day on Instagram which was, you know, how do I start out as an artist who wants to sell their art online? And I said to them, please ask your family and your friends to share it wide and share it loudly. Ask your friends to just post a story of something that you've made for them or with a link to your Instagram page or to your Etsy or to your Shopify, share your song, share whatever it is. I think that word of mouth in the creative community and in the creative space is so powerful and also psychologically like who do we trust the most? It's the people who we know. So by asking your friends to share on Instagram, to share, share on Facebook, to share on LinkedIn, whatever it is, you know, people who follow them, who know them will be like, oh, I trust their opinion and, you know, I care about what they care about. So maybe I'll like this thing. Maybe I want to buy something from this person. Maybe I want to listen to this podcast, listen to this music that is just like a final tip that I really wanted to share. But I also just want to finish this episode by saying, I think that this is the time you should be doing it. In your 20s, you, you have so much freedom and space to make mistakes, and the most time you will ever have to fix those mistakes. If things really go south, if your creative passion really fails, well, you are never going to have more time than you have now to make up for it. I also think that you don't want to be in a situation in 30 years where it's harder to pursue your creative entrepreneurial passion and realize that you wish you'd done it soon sooner. The biggest regret that we experience is what we call inaction regret. It's regret over not doing something. So the best way to avoid that kind of regret is to surprise, surprise, do the thing, do the scary thing, do the hard thing, do the thing that the naysayers say you can't do. Do it small and then medium and then big. But just do it. So I hope this episode has been, if nothing else, inspiring. Hopefully you've actually gotten some practical tips from this episode as well, something that you can put into action. I really want to hear about this challenge that I'm setting for you guys. Your 30 day challenge to make something every single day. If you actually end up doing it, please DM me on Instagram. I'm going to give you huge kudos and make sure that you are following along with the podcast. If you're a new listener. If you're an old listener, we would love to hear from you, but also we would love to have you rate the podcast five stars stars. Leave a nice review if you feel called to do so. It really does help the show grow and reach new people. It helps make my creative dreams a reality as well. Speaking of that, I also want to invite you to send in any episode suggestions that you might have. My DMs on Instagram @ thatpsychology podcast are always open to hear from you guys if you have any comments on this episode or any further episodes that you want to want me to do on this topic or this idea idea. So I would love to hear from you. But until next time, good luck with your creative passion, stay safe, stay kind, be gentle with yourselves and we will talk very, very soon. This year I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol and so I decided to commit to Dry January to really kick start 2025 and just test myself. Heineken 00 is the perfect, perfect companion for Dry January because you feel like you're still participating when you're out for dinner with friends, out for drinks, whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals. I'm a big beer fan so I also love the taste of Heineken 00 plus being alcohol free you can enjoy whenever refreshment calls. Heineken 00 is available at your local Heineken retailer or for delivery@heineken.com you must be 21+ to purchase. Enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with Dry January.
- [49:22]
Oz Velozian
Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture and everywhere in between. Join us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:53]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties in on all the behind the scenes tea stuff that didn't make it to the live TV table. What went down in rehearsals? Who said what? At the after party, you're going to hear it all. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:24]
Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls this January. Join me for our third annual January Jumpstart series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your all Access Pass to step fully into the possibilities of the new year, listen to therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.