← The Psychology of your 20s
Loading summary
Transcript28 lines
- [00:00]
Gemma
This is an iHeart podcast. This episode is brought to you by FX F has a new original comedy series coming out called Adults. Adults is a comedy that feels incredibly relatable. If you find any humor in the struggles of being an adult in 2025. You know, like remembering your full Social Security number or remembering to drink water, or perhaps the humor of having your third existential crisis a the month. The best part is that all episodes will be ready for your next weekend binge. Watch FX's Adults Wednesdays on FX. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. Have you ever felt that uneasy anxiety when the 4pm hour strikes? Like the creeping meal related distress that happens when you don't quite feel prepared? You know, the dinner dread? Let's get rid of that unpleasant feeling forever with one word. Stouffer's. No matter what happens, you'll have a dinner plan that everyone loves with Stouffers, some chicken enchiladas or a cheesy chicken and broccoli pasta. Bake is always welcome, whether it's Plan A or Plan Delicious. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. Shop now for family favorites. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed hey everyone, it's Gemma. So sunlight is essential for your health and Primally Pure's new Sun Cream, Sun Stick and Sun Lip Balm let you enjoy the sun safely. These mineral based, nutrient rich products offer broad spectrum protection without harmful chemicals. My favorite is the Sun Stick for on the go protection and you can use my code Gemma15 for 15% off at www.primallypure.com. that's R-I M A L L Y P U R E.com hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here. Back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. Before we begin, I wanted to give a shout out to my other podcast, Mantra. Some of you may not know that I actually, yeah, I have two podcasts. I have two shows. Mantra is basically how I describe it, like the spiritual, philosophical sister of the psychology of your 20s. Every Monday, I talk about a new mantra, something to guide you for the week ahead. Some of the recent ones that I have loved and that I think people will resonate with include things like, I allow myself to be happy with what I have. I make the best decision with what I know. Now I know that love won't pass me and so many more. Honestly, it is such a passion project for me right now. It allows me to talk about things from a less scientific point of view, but still go really deep. It's also incredibly meditative, and each week I include journal prompts and a weekly challenge and mental exercise to really aid you in a mindset shift. So I would really love if you guys checked it out. If you love the psychology of your twenties, obviously you will love Mantra. Just listen to one episode, try it out, tell me what you think. Because I'm also looking for feedback. I'm looking for mantras that you want me to cover. I'm looking for any suggestions for dilemmas or. Yeah, topics that you want me to look at on that podcast. So check it out. Today on the podcast, we are tackling a big question. Why do we grieve past versions of ourselves? Why do we grieve the past in general? Let's be honest. I feel like our 20s are mainly the decade in which we are comparing ourselves to others. Are we doing enough? Are we as happy as they are? Are we as successful? As beautiful? We can apply that to every facet of our lives. But what if the other person is actually someone that you once were? What if it is yourself, a past version of you? And even further, what if we look back and actually miss this person but don't know how to recover them? In other words, what if our life now isn't as good? What do we do then? It might sound a little bit dramatic, grieving version of yourself, like they're somehow, you know, dead. Maybe it can feel a little bit silly, but I think if you really sit with that feeling, if you reflect on who you were five years ago or even two years ago, you actually might find that quiet ache, a sense of loss. This person isn't coming back. There is nothing you can do to bring them back. Because, you know, that's the weird thing about growing and evolving. It always means shedding something, leaving something behind. And sometimes that shedding, that leaving it feels like a genuine loss. It feels like a farewell to a very significant chapter in the person you were, the environment you were in, the people you were around, what you spent your days doing. You're saying goodbye to that. We talk a lot about grief in the context of losing a loved one, and rightly so. But what about grief for our own past identities and our past aspirations, just the past way of being. So, my lovely listeners, that is what we are going to explore today. We are going to discuss why we feel this way, what it has to do with identity formation and life transitions. We'll look at why sometimes feeling a sense of loss for past versions of ourselves can mean that we get stuck in the past, even though our current circumstances may be objectively better. And we're also going to talk about that danger, that danger of romanticizing things that have already happened and romanticizing certain memories and certain versions of us that may actually not be as good as in reality. I also want to talk about the role of social media, how our narrative self is shaped by how we collect and store memories physically, online, in journals, in photos. But most importantly, I just want to leave you with some practical advice on how to not fall into the nostalgia trap when it comes to who you were before. How to really validate this form of grief and really accept that growing and evolving will involve loss. But that loss is essential to becoming someone better and to improving your life. I fully believe sometimes parts of us have to die in order to make room for other parts of us to grow. And we suffer so much when we think only about what we have lost, not realizing that we would suffer so much more if we had stayed the same. So how do we mourn, but also thank those parts of us we kind of needed to kill off in order to bloom into something more beautiful? Well, hopefully you will learn that in this episode. So, without further ado, let's get into why we grieve past versions of ourselves. So, before we really begin, let's just start with a basic understanding of what it actually means to feel this kind of grief. What does it look like? What does it feel like when it happens? Really grasp this. We need to understand that what we're experiencing obviously is not exactly the same as grieving that is associated with a real physical death. Think about it. You know, a past version of you hasn't physically died, right. But that particular identity, those specific circumstances, they're just no longer accessible to you in the present. They're gone, but not so much forgotten. They're still present in memory. They're still present in old photos, old or journals. And that makes the grieving process incredibly complex because it feels like I'm still alive, I could still be that person. But you also know that you can't. And you know, there's no clear funeral. We don't publicly acknowledge, we don't hold funerals. There's no universally understood ritual to help us process moving from one chapter of our life into another. And so there's no closure. You know, going from being a university student to being a full time employer, There's a loss there that we don't acknowledge. Going from being someone who was single to being someone in a relationship, even though that's a positive thing, there's still a loss. Moving away from a town that was really important to you, or a city or a place, even if it's for somewhere better, there is still a loss. And this brings us to a really crucial concept. It's called disenfranchised grief. Now this was a term first introduced by someone called Professor Kenneth Docker. He is basically the world's leading expert on grief and loss. And he essentially understood that there is a kind of grief for things that aren't openly acknowledged or accepted that makes the grief feel less valid. When we mourn things that aren't socially sanctioned or that people don't see as important to mourn, sometimes we have this dual feeling of loss and sadness and then also kind of shame and silliness like, oh my gosh, this is so dramatic. That was so long ago. No one actually died. I should just move on. We also tend to lack external validation for how we're feeling. When we do open up about it, people can be quite dismissive, like, what do you mean you're grieving a past version of you? There's real things to be grieving. And so that makes you feel even more isolated, confused, like something's wrong with you, like you've got a really serious problem that you don't want to talk about, but you also feel very strongly about. Something that is misunderstood about grieving past versions of ourselves is that we don't necessarily want to go back to that time. Instead, what's really happening is this internal emotional process that mirrors a passing. It mirrors this closing of a door of what you could have been, of different life paths you could have taken, of Certain emotions and feelings and experiences that were really valuable at that time that you realize you can't relive. So ultimately, what we're mourning is a discrepancy between who we were then and who we are now and how we see those two different versions of us as being different. What did they have that we don't have, that we therefore miss? And then the second punch that comes to us is acknowledging, like, oh, my God, I could never get that back. Does that mean that I'll never be happy in the future? Obviously, there's a huge emotion that comes into this, and it's nostalgia. Nostalgia with a melancholic tinge. You look at old photos, you listen to music from five years ago. Yes, it's a warm, nice, fuzzy feeling. But then comes the sadness, then comes the yearning. And that yearning, that longing is incredibly painful because an element of longing and yearning is powerlessness, is not being able to do anything about it. I think that nostalgia is such a complicated emotion. I honestly would go on the record as saying it is the most complex emotion that we experience as humans, because it is equally powerful and beautiful as it is despairing and uncomfortable. Like, what other emotion is like that, other than maybe, like, love and heartbreak? Nostalgia does have a role to play, right? It's an incredibly mentally protective thing to have access to moments in the past that made us feel happy and to have that kind of pool of joy and goodness to draw from in hard times. But when we let nostalgia have too much of a say, it can actually create kind of a Peter Pan syndrome where we fight against growing up, we push back against growth and evolution because we feel so terrified of having to say goodbye. We feel so terrified of the idea of things being over. A 2020 study actually found that nostalgia, in that way, can make us feel lonelier and more disconnected because it gives this sense of being pulled between two different worlds. Who we were in the past, this version of us we want to cling to, and the possibility and the potential of someone in the future that we might equally enjoy being, but who hasn't been discovered yet. But I do also think that nostalgia, if we really think about it, is just proof that you are living a life that you are proud of. You would not yearn for those memories. You would not yearn and long for those past versions of you if you didn't feel, you know, proud of them. If you didn't like who you were then, if you hadn't done things that really made you happy and excited you. I think living with constant Chronic nostalgia often means appreciating what it represents, that you have lived a happy life and that there are things you loved about the past. But you cannot let it convince you that just because there is good in the past, there cannot be anything better in the future. When that occurs, that is when our grief for the past dictates our actions in the present in a really detrimental way, often by forcing us to keep making the same choices and staying the same. So this grief brings about nostalgia. It also brings about confusion and mental disorientation. You might find yourself thinking, who was I then? Who am I now? How do I explain these different versions of myself to people? You feel very disconnected from old experiences. You realize that you've grown. But you also fundamentally understand that some people only know you as the version of you then. And so that can bring up the big R. The big R. Regret. Regret over how you behaved in the past. Regret that that version of you lives on. Regret that you didn't act differently. You know, how often have you wondered, how would my life have turned out if I just made a small, different choice? If I just knew what I knew now, If I just appreciated that time or that opportunity more? Maybe what we're experiencing when we grieve or we miss versions of ourselves is the ability we had then to make different choices, which we can't make now. But what you've got to realize is that you made the best decision with what you knew then. It's something that we actually talked about on a recent episode of Mantra the other day. How could you have known? You're judging your past self based on information you have now that you didn't have access to. So it's an unfair judgment. It's an asymmetry that is entirely unfair for former versions of you. They can't beat that evidence. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're judging them based on what you know now, thinking that they must have known it. They're not realizing how naive you probably were. But also, how do you know that the choice you're mourning wouldn't have led to a worse outcome that you have been saved from? There's this really beautiful quote that actually I wanted to pull out of that episode of Mantra I was talking about that I really, really love from Maya Angelou, where she says, do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better. And I think that's a really beautiful way of making peace with the fact that they did make mistakes, but you still love them anyway. This past Version of you didn't have all the information, but you have grace towards them, and you know that it's all a stepping stone into being a better version of you in the future. Keep your eyes pointed on the future. I think our investment, our fascination, our obsession with the past also occurs because of something that I've mentioned before, the Pollyanna effect. So this refers to our cognitive tendency to essentially remember positive experiences more than negative ones. And so when we look back at who you were before, who you were in high school, who you were in college, who you were with that person, often it is so much easier to recall and see the good experiences and the fun times and the things that we liked, rather than what we disliked or struggled with at the time. I need to talk about this experience I had recently. So recently I was on tour around Australia for my book, Person in Progress, and part of that tour brought me back to Canberra. Canberra is like the capital city of Australia if you don't know that. And it's where I went to university. It's where I started this podcast, actually. And I, in the lead up to going back, I was so nostalgic, and I was really quite sad that I was never going to be 18 again. I was never going to be 21 again in this little university town with all those people having, like, the time of my life. I had so much freedom, I had so much fun, and I was really getting in my head about it. And I went back. And when I was back there, I actually went back to my old college dorm, and I snuck into the building, which I don't think I was allowed to do. My intentions were pure. And I knocked on the door to my old college room, and this, like, wonderful girl answered. And I was like, this is so strange, but I used to live here. You can tell me to go away. But I carved my name into the back of the back of the door, the closet door. And I just want to see it. I just want to see if it's still there. And, you know, she let me in and she was so nice. Like, she was so lovely. And I opened the. The door and there it was. And I expected to just be, like, so overwhelmed with grief and sadness at the passing of time. And I actually just felt so unbelievably happy and grateful that I wasn't still there, that I wasn't still in that timeline. I was, like, instantly reminded in that moment of all the things that I had hated about that time in my life. Obviously, it was fun, but I forgot about how broke I was. I forgot about how unsure I was. I forgot about how little I slept, how much I was drinking, how terrible I felt all the time. I forgot about how lonely I was at times, how much FOMO I had. I forgot about the terrible meals that I would eat. I forgot about how cold it was. Our autobiographical memory is not a perfect video recording. It's actually reconstructive. So every time we recall a memory, we're not pulling it from a file, we're actually rebuilding it. And that process can be influenced by our current mood, by our beliefs, even by external cues. So that means that every time you pull out a memory, it becomes easier for you to erase the bad parts from your retelling of it to yourself. It becomes very easy to romanticize a period because the specifics have faded and our current feelings will often color our perception of the past. So if you're not doing well right now, if you're sad, if you're lonely, if you're really just struggling in your life, you go and you pull out a memory from the past. Your brain, given its current state, is going to make that memory look beautiful and wonderful, and it's going to convince you that that was the best time of your life, when actually when you were in it, it probably wasn't. Essentially, what that means is that you're not just grieving a past self. You're grieving the narrative and the story you are telling yourself about the past. And that can be really dangerous when you are, like I said, going through a tough time. It can really manifest in a difficulty accepting your current self, struggling to fully integrate the new you with the old you. And I think it really keeps you from living in the present. Okay, we're going to take a short break, but when we return, I want to talk about why this is so much more common in our 20s, and also how to deal with it, how to manage, how to stop romanticizing the past, how to live in the now. So stay with us. Hello, my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed are there any.
- [23:18]
Dexter Thomas
Pictures of you online? I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere.
- [23:23]
Erin Welsh
Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.
- [23:29]
Dexter Thomas
That database is now being used by police departments all across the country to match criminal suspect photos. And sometimes it makes mistakes.
- [23:36]
Erin Welsh
So in this one case, two of their search results that I think were in the top 10 of the search results were. Michael Jordan, a picture of Michael Jordan.
- [23:44]
Dexter Thomas
But cops are still using it to make arrests.
- [23:46]
Erin Welsh
Police, they are trusting this software to lead them to the right suspect. But you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.
- [23:56]
Dexter Thomas
This is not Minority Report. This is happening right now. People are getting arrested and doing actual time in jail after being picked out by a computer. I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, where every Wednesday we explain the right now of living in the future. You can turn off the computer, but do not let the computer turn you off. Listen to Kill Switch in the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:19]
Erin Welsh
OpenAI is a financial abomination, a thing that should not be an aberration, a symbol of rot at the heart of Silicon Valley. And I'm gonna tell you why on my show, Better Offline, the rudest show in the tech industry where we're breaking down. Why Open OpenAI, along with other AI companies, are dead set on lying to your boss that they can take your job. I'm also going to be talking with the greatest minds in the industry about all the other ways the rich and powerful are ruining the computer. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you happen to get your podcasts.
- [24:49]
Gemma
I'm Erin Welsh, an ecologist and epidemiologist. And I'm Erin Ahmed Updike, also an epidemiologist. On our show, this podcast will kill you. We cover everything from the biology of deadly diseases to the weird history behind them, all with a healthy dose of humor. Like the time we made a surprising discovery about scabies. When you look at pictures of especially these particular mites, they look more like tardigrades, like water bears, than. They do, too. They totally do. Yeah, they're kind of cute. Or when we used a classic movie reference to explain allergy tests, an allergist will inject teeny tiny amounts of the thing that they're allergic to underneath their skin. It's just like I cane powder in the Princess Bride. But it works. And our COVID 19 series was even added to the CDC museum archives. So need I say more? New episodes drop every Tuesday on the Exactly Right network. Listen to this podcast Will Kill Youl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Grieving previous versions of ourselves is a process that is necessary. It's normal. It's also incredibly sped up and intensified during the decade that we're in. There are so many profound shifts and life changing, changing moments that happen when we're in our 20s and even our early 30s. It's such a period of big change and changes that happen one after another that it means that our identity feels particularly unstable where we are at right now. So there are more revisions and versions of ourselves to grieve than I think in any other time of our life. This is particularly because of physical environmental transitions that we're going through and how many chapters close and then open quite quickly in succession. I'm going to give you some examples of why this happens a lot in our twenties. Firstly, you will see a lot of people leaving formal education and starting careers. So you lose the student identity, the structure, the clear academic goals, the specific peer group, the sense of being on a path and you're really thrust into an adult world of work where the rules are different. You turn from being a student to a professional. It feels like there are certain things you can't do anymore, certain environments you can't access, you can't go and study in the library with your mates. Like it's all different to you. And so it's trying to reconcile who you were before, who you are now, and say goodbye to them. We also find that in our 20s, obviously a lot of us move away from home. So this involves the loss of family, proximity, childhood routines, a sense of belonging, and also a specific place or community that wants to find you as you're building a new home, a new routine, a new sense of belonging. It's beautiful. Beautiful. It's magnificent. There's so much growth there. There's also an appreciation of like, okay, I'm never going to be five again, I'm never going to be 12. It's never going to be a beautiful summer day when I'm 15 and I have no responsibilities. There's also changes in relationships. So typical experience in your 20s. Hopefully. You guys know this is drifting away from old friends who no longer share your path and you're also navigating new romantic partners. Starting significant relationships. Ending significant relationships. We know that relationships and connection form a great part of our identity. So if you've always had a best friend and now you no longer do, it feels like a part of you is missing. If you enter a new relationship, if you leave a relationship, it's actually quite a stressful thing to integrate that new label, single, partnered, girlfriend, boyfriend into who you are. All of this comes down to identity shifts. I also think we need to talk about significant personal growth and trauma that happens during this defining period. This could include overcoming major life challenges, experiencing profound shifts in who you are. For example, if you are someone who has recovered from a severe mental illness, a severe eating disorder, and you're no longer feeling like you're defined by that illness, you've shed that identity, that's going to feel incredibly liberating. You're going to feel very proud of yourself. It also carries the weight of acknowledging what you've lost in the process. Perhaps a familiar, albeit unhealthy, coping mechanism, perhaps a distorted sense of control, but also time. You've lost time. And part of that grief is really realising, you know, you're only going to be 17 once, you're only going to be 20, 21, whatever age it is, and you can feel like because of what you were going through, that that period was wasted. I know it probably doesn't help coming from me, as someone who doesn't know your story, doesn't know who you are. It wasn't wasted. You were working towards, you were battling against something very, very difficult. That is not a waste ever. And you've got to realize you're judging your previous self based on who you are now. And the person who you are now only came into existence because of the sacrifices and the difficulties experienced by your previous self who had to work through that. You have so much to be thankful for for them and how strong they were, how much they put into this journey, how much they put into this growth. And it kind of feels weird that you're like killing them off. But they had to die, right? They had to go for you to be where you are now. Whenever I feel sad about missing who I was before, I always think about these plants that my grandma has. So in her backyard she has these plants, I think they're called hydrangeas. Hydrangeas. I think that's it. And whenever I'm at her house, she always has me cut the old flowers off these plants. She has me basically butcher them and cut all these limbs off. And one time I asked her, I was like, why do you need me to do this? Aren't you destroying the plant? And she said, it's because those parts need to be removed for new flowers to come in. If we didn't do that, the plant would die under the weight of basically these old, dead parts of itself. And I feel like that is such a beautiful metaphor for my own personal development. It's why I feel more at peace now with aging, with closing chapters, with moving on with my life from old relationships, places, things. Old versions of me. I don't want to die being who I was at 23 for the next 60 years. I don't want to constantly try to relive stages of my life that are no longer representative of who I am. I think that that loss and that pain shows that you are on the right path. Perhaps the final reason that I can really think of that this scares us a lot is that the past versions of us feel very comfortable. There's something that is known, and there is a lot in the future, and that is unknown. There's a lot of mystery there. And so perhaps what is really intertwined in with this is a fear of the unknown, a fear of our future self. If the self is constantly changing, how stable is our identity really? Who are we? Who are we really actually, at our core? What parts of us stay the same? How do I know that I'm even the same person? So it's not just grief. It's very existential questions. It's questions of the self. It means that you're probably a very deep thinker. If you are sitting there and trying to figure out who you were then, who you are now, what does that mean for me? Who am I going to be in the future? It's a bit of a mind puzzle, actually. But, you know, if this grief goes unacknowledged or unaddressed, it can have less than desirable outcomes. It can contribute to prolonged sadness, even depression, especially if the feeling of loss is so intense that you isolate yourself or if it triggers an identity crisis. You can have difficulty forming new connections because you're constantly trying to revert to past relational patterns or struggling to adapt to new social environments. And I think, critically, idealizing the past can lead to chronic dissatisfaction with the present because you're constantly comparing your life to a romanticized version of what once was. One factor that has undeniably complicated this process for you and I in the modern age is social media is just actually, most digital technology. Think about it. Every single version of who you are now is probably immortalized online. Old Facebook posts, blurry Instagram photos, Snapchat photos from literally decades ago. Sometimes they serve as digital footprints, constant reminders of who we once were. And this digital archive can make it incredibly difficult to let go because it creates a perpetual comparison point. It's like having an old photo album that updates itself daily, showing you who you once were, even when you're trying to move forward. It's like when you go through a breakup and people say to delete all the photos of you with your ex because otherwise you'll look back at the photo of you on a nice holiday or having a great time and think that it was all beautiful. That's pretty difficult when it's you and you're trying to break up with an old version of yourself. The highlight reel effect as well on social media definitely amplifies this. Listen, all the stuff that you probably posted online was probably the best photos that you had. Probably the photos where you looked the hottest, probably the times when you felt the happiest. That's why they made it online. And yet right now, you're comparing a very messy, unfiltered version of your life with the version of you that was curated by past you. It's so funny, when we compare to people online, everyone always says, you know, social media isn't real. You've got to remember that for you as well. I often think about this when I look at photos of myself when I was smaller, like, physically smaller, when I weighed less, and I'm like, God, she was so fit. Like, she was so fit and healthy and like, I don't look like that anymore now. And then recently I found an old phone and I was going through it and I was like, oh, like, I remember posting that photo. And I went back and I found the photo, and then I found like the 20 other virgins in that photo. And I was like, wait a second. Like, I. Angles are everything. Poses are everything. I know that now. How come I'm not applying that to past me? Who knew the same thing? Let's also touch briefly on attachment theory. Now, obviously we often discuss this in the context of relationship with others, but here's the nuance. We form attachments not just to people, but to aspects of ourselves and our roles and our identities, even our routines. So losing these internal attachments can also evoke a similar form of grief to losing a person. The reason that you are so attached to a previous identity that you had is probably because you really liked that person and you felt safe and comfortable as that person. And so having to kind of rip two people apart, rip old you and new you apart, is going to feel like disentangling a whole lot of complex loyalties and attachments and insecurities and securities between who you were there, who you were then, and who you are now. So how do we navigate closing an old chapter? How do we grieve without getting stuck in the past? I think, firstly, it's so important to acknowledge this grief. And I was going to say validate it, but I know that some people hate that word. But you know what? Acknowledge and validate the grief. This is the absolute first step. These feelings are not silly or irrational. If you feel a pang of sadness or longing for a past version of yourself, acknowledge it. Say to yourself, this is a real feeling. I'm obviously very sad. I'm obviously feeling things that are complex. And I can just sit with that for a little while. I don't have to put it in a box. I don't have to resolve that feeling right away. What if you actually just let yourself for three minutes, three minutes right now, just feel really sad about who you were? Then I find that when I'm really stuck, I do really need to just put what's in my brain into something physical. For me, that's journaling. And I know it's such a cliche, cliche thing, but a problem on a page is a problem halved. One of the journal prompts that I find incredibly powerful is to write about what I loved about them, what I missed about them, and whether I feel like it's because I'm missing something now. Am I just reflecting on that time from a place of happiness? Or is there genuinely something that I want to change in my life that this nostalgia is trying to remind me of? Remember, this is a form of disenfranchised grief. So if other people don't understand it, if other people make you feel weird about it, if other people say, I know I've never experienced that doesn't really matter. It's an emotion that exists within you. Means it's valid enough. I think also part of this is practicing self compassion. Think about how you treat a friend who was going through a really tough transition. Think about what you would say to a sibling or someone you really loved who came to you and said, I just can't let go of who I was before. What advice would you have for them? What do you need to hear? The thing I always remind myself of that makes me feel better is that if I didn't Grow. I wouldn't get to experience the world. If the alternative that I would want is to go back to the past and relive certain points of my life. I would be avoiding so much beauty in the future. Growing older, experiencing new things. And that is the human experience. That is what I am here for. I'm here to observe, I am here to feel. I am here to learn. And part of that is learning who I'm going to be at 32, who am I going to be at 45? Who am I going to be as a mother, who am I going to be as a grandmother, who am I going to be as a wife, as. As an artist, as someone older and wiser? That is part of the human experience. It's a gift. It's a blessing. And to be able to get there instead of viewing your past self as well as something that is completely abandoned or forgotten, you also have to remember that this is a foundational layer upon which your current self is being built. The old you is still part of your story. You've just expanded on it. You've just refined them. Think of it like a really beautiful building that has undergone renovations and additions over time. The beautiful original structure is still there. It's contributing to its current form and character. You're just adding to it. Yes, I know we've been using the word death a lot. Maybe the better word is evolution. What kind of small behaviors can you still recognize that you do today? And what kind of things did you learn in the past that are still with you today that shows that your past self is still very much alive and well? They're just not center stage. I think this really allows us to see identity development not as a threat to your stability, but as a very exciting opportunity for continuous learning, for mastery, for becoming. If you were who you were at 24 for the rest of your life, that would make you a finished product. That would make you very. Still, very stagnant, very bored. That's not a way you want to live. The pain of growing is actually quite a beautiful thing. And whilst it's okay to acknowledge the past, try to gently redirect your energy to who you are now. Ask yourself and sink deep into your current passions and goals. Something that I really, really think is important for everyone to have is a project of some kind. Often when we are experiencing intense emotions about the past, very existential emotions about ident, we really need something that's going to get us out of our mind and into our bodies or into a very active mental state, into A flow state. This, like really saved me last year when I was going through a very difficult time having very existential thoughts. I just realized that I spent a lot of my day, I gave myself a lot of time to think and at that point, like, I didn't need to do any more thinking. And there was nothing that thinking about my thoughts was going to get me. Like, I had done enough. What I really needed to do was start acting on something else. Acting on a different impulse, a different interest, a different point of fascination. So I got a project and that's how like my running journey really began. Now I'm running like four or five times a week and I love it. And I never thought I was going to be a runner, but I realized that I needed something else to think about in that time instead of giving my brain the opportunity to just ruminate. Part of me thinks that the reason I was so hung up on past versions of myself and thinking about the passing of time and change and all that was because I was just bored. Like, I genuinely think I was just bored. And my brain was like, all right, let's pull something out of the. Let's pull something out of the cabinet that will take you a lot of time to think about and come to an answer on, because there is no answer, right? Let's choose this. And what I really needed to do was like, say to my mind, okay, but how about we do this instead? And what this was was something real and tangible and in my environment, like I needed to do something with my hands and with my body. So get a project, get a self improvement project, Get a travel goal, get a fight. Like have a finance goal, a savings goal, go back to uni. Like have something that you work on, that you can care about and think about. Specifically something that is future orientated that can get you out of ruminating on the past, interprojecting good things, good energy, all your resources, your time into the future. This also might sound a little bit woo woo for some of you, but consider doing some sort of symbolic ritual of letting go or for celebrating evolution. Whilst they're not formal grief rituals, you can create your own personal ways to acknowledge the transition and to say, yes, I'm going to grieve here. I'm going to formally close a chapter and kind of make peace with it. This could be like writing a letter to your past self, thanking them for the lessons learned, saying goodbye to what no longer serves you. Or conversely, creating something like a future self vision board. You could also, I don't know, this sounds really strange, but find memorabilia and photos from a past version of you, past version of you who was in a relationship or who was a certain person at a certain time, and put them in a box, send them out to sea, bury them somewhere, do something like that that symbolically kind of cuts a tie. Mainly with parts of yourself that might not be helpful to bring into the future, but also parts of yourself that you're finding you are too actively grieving to move on. And you need to just be like, okay, cool, we aren't going back there. There's nothing that we can do to go back there, so let's formally say goodbye. I think there's also a celebration in that. Buy some champagne, get some cupcakes. Really, this is for the moments when you are super stuck. Say goodbye, have a funeral for the past version of you, and then celebrate what you are now. Celebrate this new chapter of life. You know, I read this quote that says every day you wake up is another little life is another. Another birth. And I just think that's so beautiful. I'm like, yeah, each day is its own little life. It's its own little lifespan. And that really helped me in, you know, feeling better about being in the present rather than feeling torn to the past, stuck in the past and constantly ruminating over the future, constantly thinking about it. Okay, we are going to take one more short break, but when we return, we have our listener questions for the day. So stay with us. Hello, my lovely listeners. By now, you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed.
- [47:09]
Dexter Thomas
Are there any pictures of you online? I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere.
- [47:14]
Erin Welsh
Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.
- [47:20]
Dexter Thomas
That database is now being used by police departments all across the country to match criminal suspect photos. And sometimes it makes mistakes.
- [47:28]
Erin Welsh
So in this one case, two of their search results that are. I think we're in the top 10 of the search results were Michael Jordan. A picture of Michael Jordan.
- [47:36]
Dexter Thomas
But cops are still using it to make arrests.
- [47:38]
Erin Welsh
Police, they are trusting this software to lead them to the right suspect. But you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.
- [47:48]
Dexter Thomas
This is not Minority Report. This is happening right now. People are getting arrested and doing actual time in jail after being picked out by a computer. I'm just Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, where every Wednesday we explain the right now of living in the future. You can turn off the computer, but do not let the computer turn you off. Listen to Kill Switch in the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:10]
Erin Welsh
OpenAI is a financial abomination, a thing that should not be an aberration, a symbol of rot at the heart of Silicon Valley. And I'm gonna tell you why. On my show, Better Offline, the rudest show in the tech industry where we're breaking down why OpenAI, along with other AI companies, are dead set on lying to your boss that they can take your job. I'm also going to be talking with the greatest minds in the industry about all the other ways the rich and powerful are ruining the computer. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you happen to get your podcasts.
- [48:40]
Gemma
I'm Erin Welsh, an ecologist and epidemiologist. And I'm Erin Ahmed Updike, also an epidemiologist on our show. This podcast is Will Kill you. We cover everything from the biology of deadly diseases to the weird history behind them all with a healthy dose of humor. Like the time we made a surprising discovery about scabies. When you look at pictures of especially these particular mites, they look more like tardigrades, like water bears. And they do. Yeah, they're kind of cute. Or when we used a classic movie reference to explain allergy tests, an allergist will inject teeny tiny amounts of the thing that they're allergic to underneath their skin. It's just like iocaine powder in the Princess Bride, but it works. And our COVID 19 series was even added to the CDC museum archives. So need I say more new episodes drop every Tuesday on the exactly right network. Listen to this podcast, Will Kill Youl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we have some amazing listener questions for this episode. When I went to Instagram and said, what do you guys want to know? What dilemmas are you facing in terms of grieving past versions of you. A lot of you were like, I really need to hear this. I really need to hear this episode. And here are my. Here are my thoughts. So thank you for sharing. Let's start with this first question. How do I actually know when it's time to leave a past version of me and step into a new one? What are the psychological signs? Oh, I loved this question. I was like, I could make a list that goes on for days, but I'm going to just leave you with three things that I think are really telling. Firstly, you feel an inner sense of restlessness. You feel like your life currently makes you feel very highly strung, makes you feel quite anxious, makes you feel like, like your mind is racing, uncomfortable. You feel this sense of like, I want to be doing things, I want things to change, I want things to move. You don't know what it is yet, but you know something needs to change. So you're really craving different things. I think also you might find yourself thinking, there has to be more you, there has to be more to life. What if I'm meant for something else? What if this isn't who I want to be for the next 10 years? Could I imagine myself here for the next five, 10 years? And the answer keeps coming back as no. So there's this low hum of discontent, this low hum of restlessness. Secondly, the old version of you feels kind of like self abandonment. You notice that you're constantly saying yes to things you don't actually want to do. You're constantly finding yourself bored in situations that previously made yourself, made you very happy. You can't talk to the people you were friends with during that time. You feel like you're hiding parts of yourself. It just feels like a betrayal. It feels like these people aren't really matching up. And finally, I think that you can tell it's time to close an old chapter. If it feels like it's taking more of you to keep the door open than it would to shut. So what I mean by that is that it's taking more effort for you to keep returning to this old life, returning to this past version of you, than it would to accept the future. I remember when I first moved to Sydney from Canberra, I would go back to Canberra all the time to see my friends, all the time to just be in my old neighborhood. And I was like, wait, it's taking me so much effort to try and maintain this former life. Maybe this is a sign that, like, I need to move on, like, I'm not meant to be here. Anymore. That's a really important sign. I think the second question is around forgiveness. How can I actually forgive my past self? The mistakes that I made when I didn't know any better. I grieve the fact that she could have made better choices. Oh, gosh, don't we all? There is something that every single one of us regrets doing or not doing. I promise you that. Hold it in your mind right now. There's something you regret, there's something that you cringe at. So I want you to know it's a universal experience. First of all, people are just better at hiding it. People also aren't going to come out and say and talk about their regrets. It's this weird thing that we don't do. I think the fact that you can acknowledge that you made a mistake or that you didn't make a good choice is all the evidence that you need that you have grown. The version of you back then who made that mistake, who did the wrong thing, would not be able to acknowledge that she did the wrong thing and she wouldn't be able to handle, you know, the humility that that would take. So you've obviously taken a lot of responsibility. I also want to remind you, you have. You had no idea back then of how everything would have turned out. You really didn't know her. You made a mistake because that's the only way to grow. Literally, the only way to learn is to do the wrong thing or to have someone else teach you who has done the wrong thing. So you really need to have some grace, have some kindness towards your past self. I also want you to stop and focus on your life right now and think about four things that you are incredibly grateful for that have happened in the past six months. Four things that probably wouldn't have happened if you weren't on this timeline and if you weren't on this path. Think about it. You have a lot to thank this person for, this past version of you for, for making a mistake. Because even if you didn't like what she did, even if you are frustrated by her stupidity or her naivety or whatever it is, it still meant that you. You came across and you ended up experiencing these beautiful things. So you do have a little bit to be thankful for. Let's talk about this third question. Now. I have a dilemma. How do I live with my family who still see me as a past version of myself? That's tricky. I feel like everyone expects continuity from us. It's like that experience where, like, your grandma keeps buying you the same presence Based on something that she found out that you liked. Like back when you were three. Like, I had this period in my life where everyone would buy me rabbit stuff and I was like, I don't even like rabbits anymore. Like, because I had a rabbit when I was like seven. And until I was like 16, every single Christmas I would get like, rabbit slippers, rabbit, you know, post it notes, like rabbit clothing. And it was very sweet. But it's kind of similar to that, but on a more intense level. You kind of want to hold people and scream at them and be like, I, like, can't you see I've changed? Like, no, me for me now. Tricky thing is you just have to let them be wrong about you. You just have to let them be mistaken. The more authentic you are, actually, the less you try and convince them, the more I think it comes across to them, the more it signals to them that you are different because you're living it and you're showing them it. And you are vibrant in who you are now and your. Your identity that you feel comfortable in. So spend less time trying to convince them because I feel like sometimes then we feel like we have to convince ourselves and more time just living in the present and living organically and authentically as the version of you that you really want to be. Our final question for the day. I gave up recently on a career that I thought would make me happy because I was going broke. But I still wish almost every day that I had done it. What is your advice? My advice to you is that it is not too late. It is never too late. You have all the time in the world to go back and try again. Maybe the time just wasn't right. Do you know how many actors, authors, musicians, sports stars, small business owners, anybody you can think of, have stories about them quitting? Almost every single one of them. Or have stories about setbacks? Every single one of them does. Maybe this is just part of the story. This is part of your origin story, the beginning of a really amazing, cool chapter that you're about to write of getting back on the horse. Also, there is this huge tension between passion and practicality, right? And I talk about this in my book, actually. This idea that people often think that if you've given up on your dreams, you are somehow, like, undisciplined or you don't actually want it. And what we have to realize is that practically money is important. You need money to live. You need certain things to be well and to survive and to thrive as a human being because you put your dream on pause for money. That doesn't mean that you are any less entitled to that dream. It doesn't mean that you deserve it any less. You just did what you needed to do. So my advice is to find small ways to keep practicing the dream career or the dream thing that you want to do on a smaller scale and just to keep at it and know that you have heaps of time. Okay, as we wrap up today's episode, I want to leave you with this final thing. The grief you might feel for your past self isn't a sign that something is wrong with you or that you are stuck. And it is certainly not a sign that all the good in your life has already happened and is in the past. It's actually a very profound indicator that you are growing. I fully believe discomfort is the first sign of evolution. You are adapting. You are learning. You are becoming this new person that you're going to be so proud of. Embrace this process. Embrace the pain. Embrace how messy it is. And remember that every version of you that fades does make space for a stronger, wiser, more real version of you. That's really what you're creating. You're creating space for them, even if they're not quite there yet. Thank you again for listening to this episode. If you've made it this far, I want you to leave an emoji in the comments that best represents evolution and growth for you. Make sure that you are following along wherever you are listening. And send this episode to a friend, a colleague, a family member, anybody who you think would really, really resonate with it. Make sure that you are following me on Instagram thatpsychology podcast so you can contribute to our listener questions, plus so much more. And make sure you listen to Mantra. I'll leave a link in the description below, but until next, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to your past, present and future self, and we will talk very, very soon. This episode is brought to you by FX F has a new original comedy series coming out called Adults. Adults is a comedy that feels incredibly relatable. If you find any humor in the struggles of being an adult in 2025, you know, like remembering your full Social Security number or remembering to drink water or perhaps the humor of having your third existential crisis of the month. The best part is that all episodes will be ready for your next weekend binge watch FX's adults Wednesdays on FX. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sexual that's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed are there any.
- [61:27]
Dexter Thomas
Pictures of you online? Then you could already be in a massive police database without even knowing it.
- [61:32]
Erin Welsh
Clear View scroll scrapes together images From Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts I'm.
- [61:38]
Dexter Thomas
Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now.
- [61:44]
Erin Welsh
Police, they are trusting this software with this magical ability to lead them to the right suspect.
- [61:49]
Dexter Thomas
In this episode, we dive into how cops are using AI and facial recognition and sometimes getting it wrong and putting innocent people behind bars.
- [61:57]
Erin Welsh
So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.
- [62:06]
Dexter Thomas
Listen to Kill Switch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [62:13]
Erin Welsh
OpenAI is a financial abomination, a thing that should not be an aberration, a symbol of rot at the heart of Silicon Valley. And I'm gonna tell you why on my show Better Offline, the rudest show in the tech industry where we're broken, breaking down, why OpenAI, along with other AI companies, are dead set on lying to your boss that they can take your job. I'm also going to be talking with the greatest minds in the industry about all the other ways the rich and powerful are ruining the computer. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you happen to get your podcasts.
- [62:43]
Gemma
This is an iHeart podcast.