← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Unknown Host
This is an I heart podcast.
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal Barnett.
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Unknown Host
And I discuss flight anxiety. What is not normal is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do.
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:35]
Unknown Host
From tips for healthy living to the latest medical breakthroughs, WebMD's Health Discovered podcast keeps you up to date on today's most important health issues. Through in depth conversations with experts from across the healthcare community, WebMD reveals how today's health news will impact your life tomorrow.
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It's not that people don't know that.
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Exercise is healthy, it's just that people don't.
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We don't know why it's healthy and.
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We'Re struggling to try to help people help themselves and each other.
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Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:06]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, sexual support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:38]
Unknown Host
So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.
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There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
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Left a woman behind to drown.
- [01:51]
Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [02:01]
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [02:11]
Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers believe in.
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I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.
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That's right.
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They gave you the answers and you still blew it.
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The Puzzler Listen on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:44]
Hey, it's Gemma and I have something really special to share with you. I'm hosting my first ever Virt video podcast. Not a pre recorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh and kind of just reflect together no matter where you are in the world. Plus, I'm hosting a VIP after party for my inner circle where I will be answering your questions and getting to talk to you guys even more. It's happening August 12th at 7pm Pacific Time or August 13th at 12pm if you live in my hometown of Sydney, you can grab your ticket now at Pave Live. I cannot wait to see there. Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we of course break down the psychology of your 20s today to just jump straight to the chase, we are talking about perhaps one of the most defining parts of our 20s, the overwhelming uncertainty of just being in this decade. If this decade had one word to describe it, one theme to trump them all, it would be uncertainty. We are lost in this very weird haze of not really knowing who we are, not really knowing what the future holds, what's going to happen with our jobs, with our friends, with our finances, with our love lives. And even once you think you have some part of it figured out, another part of your life suddenly crumbles and you're kind of just left feeling as lost as you were before. So I got this DM from a listener the other day that I wanted to to share, which really inspired me to talk about this because going back through the archives, I realized we have never sat down and done a full episode dedicated to this feeling, despite it being, I would say, universal. This is what her DM said. Hi Gemma, I'm in my twenties, like I'm sure most of your listeners are, so there must be others who relate to this feeling. My dilemma is that everyone tells me to just try something and that it doesn't matter what path I'm taking in my 20s, as long as I'm moving forward. What really paralyzes me though, is not knowing whether the path I choose to take will make me happy, or at least happier than any other path. When I visualize my Future. It just feels like a big, ominous gray cloud. And I can't help but feel like if I just knew one part of the story, I could decide once and for all what direction to take. How do I deal with my fear of uncertainty? It's the biggest thing holding me back. I just knew, like, instantly upon reading this, how many of us, and I can include myself in this group, can relate to that feeling? The feeling that our futures are not necessarily exciting, but actually really scary and really ominous. And a lot of that fear of the unknown really fuels indecision. And it fuels not making decisions that are important to make at this stage in our life, which, of course fuels later dissatisfaction. But I think when you understand why we feel such uncertainty to begin with, why it is human nature to turn away from the unknown, but also how we can shift our feelings about uncertainty so that it feels less scary, that is, when this sensation has less control of you, you know you're no longer fighting a losing battle against it. Uncertainty can become perhaps your sign that you're going in the right direction. It can be a sign of growth. It can be a sign that you are trying new things and you're expanding as a person. So you welcome it. You welcome the sensation rather than running away from it. If that sounds kind of implausible and out of reach, let me explain how exactly we can get to that point. If you want to get to that place, we're going to have to make uncertainty feel like an asset. And we need to have a better strategy for coping with this feeling. And so that is exactly what we are going to talk about today. How we can celebrate, rather than fear, the unknown, how we can integrate this feeling into our life plan. See it as a sign, but also some of the origins of why we feel this way. Not just in our 20s, but as a species. All of that and more, and so much psychology. So stay with us. My fear of uncertainty, I think, definitely shifted when I realized that uncertainty is the opposite of boredom and predictability. If I knew exactly how my life was going to turn out, if I knew what was around every single corner, the name of every single friend I would meet, my entire, entire resume until the time I retire, yes, I would feel less uncertain, but what would the point of being alive even be? I think the newness of life, the experiences, the surprises, they are really what makes this whole thing worthwhile, in a sense. You can't have surprises. You can't have unexpected joy. You can't learn. You can't have excitement and anticipation without uncertainty. It is a core ingredient in so many otherwise really amazing and pleasurable experiences. And that's what I'm personally learning to appreciate and focus on when I do have those very natural moments of being paralyzed by all that I don't know yet. I'm kind of jumping the gun here. Yes, uncertainty may have its upsides. We definitely can think about it differently. But why do we even experience it to begin with? And what makes it so freaking uncomfortable? That's really what we have to nail down first. Like I said in the beginning, uncertainty in our 20s are basically two peas in a pod for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I want you to give yourself some grace. You are doing everything for the first time ever. Basically. You are basically an adult toddler or an adult child who, yes, can read, hopefully, and can write, and is hopefully potty trained and all those things. But you are now experiencing the next level of situations, the next level of learning experiences that are emotionally complex and not straightforward. And as you're experiencing that, you also are without the same safety net that you relied upon when you were younger. And you're without the reassurance and the security of teachers and parents and a school system and a societal system that hopefully isn't going to let you fall through the cracks. You're on your own. And uncertainty therefore feels a lot more alarming because you feel like you're the one who is going to hold the burden. Experience the full burden of any poor decision or any poor outcome you made. It's all on you at this point. Another element of this is that because you are an adult toddler, you haven't had enough life experience yet to know that things are will eventually work out for you, even if they don't the first time, even if they are not working out right now. People in their 40s and their 50s and later, they know that the breakup isn't the end of the world because they've experienced them and survived before. They know making a major mistake or losing a friend or losing a job isn't the end of the world because they have evidence from previous life experience to tell them that. But you, you don't have those same data points. You don't have that same catalog of examples that tell you everything is going to be okay. Uncertainty for you and uncertainty for a lot of us in our 20s doesn't have a conclusion the way that it has for people who are older. Then, of course, just to add even more fuel to the fire, there's the fact that you're kind of living between milestones and this decade is definitely one of perpetual transition. You know, you're no longer a teenager, but you know, you don't really feel like an adult yet. You're not at that financial level, you're not settled in a career, you're not settled in a relationship the way that you expect adults to be. What are you really? It's what psychologists call a liminal space. The in between and liminal emotional spaces are by nature by definition disorientating because they don't come with a clear script. And of course, there's no accurate way and there's no one who's going to be able to tell you, like, okay, you're doing, you're doing well, you're doing fine, you are being, you are successful earlier in life. This is something I talk to people about all the time earlier in life. Your entire days, weeks, months are set up in a structure that will tell you if you are doing well. There are clear benchmarks for life performance, things like grades, things like passing to the next year level, things like a whole cohort of people in the same situation at the same time and the same age as you with whom you can mark your progress against. And they're probably all in the same environment. Like at school, you don't have that anymore. You don't have that same framework to look around and think, okay, I'm doing okay, or I'm not doing okay, and these are the areas I can improve, or these are the areas that I'm excelling. You don't have that anymore. And it might seem really arbitrary, but those social structures and those environmental structures and that context actually provides a great deal of, and a great sense of calm and stability. So you have, during this decade, almost suddenly lost a lot of what previously allowed you to stay grounded. Security, structure, direction. And of course, finally, what may feel like a curse, but certainly isn't, is the fact that as a generation, we have more choices than ever. We really do. And it's a beautiful thing. And everyone tells us we're very privileged. We also know that that creates a real paradox of choice that can be quite stifling. You know, it is amazing that when we're in our 20s, like 80% of the doors are open to us. Definitely there are some things that we probably can't do anymore. You know, unfortunately, you're probably not going to become an Olympic gymnast if you haven't been training since you were a child. But in general, you know, you're at the start line of pretty much everything else. All the doors are open. Do you know how utterly terrifying that actually is? You probably do because you're experiencing it. But it certainly does feel like with each decision you make, the more doors you seem to close. With no certainty around whether you might actually want to go back through that door later, and no certainty around what might happen next, Closing those doors seems a lot more scary than it does fulfilling. So you do nothing. You're paralyzed by choice. And the endless pro cons list that we know as decision paralysis, that's really the 20 something explanation for uncertainty. There's also a more human explanation as to why uncertainty in any capacity, not just when it comes to the big ticket items of our 20s, is so uncomfortable for us as a species. To firstly really state the obvious, Our brains, they are wired to seek out stability and clarity. Because when something is known and familiar, there are of course less opportunities for danger and threats. Now, the part of our brain that controls this primal urge, that there's two specific regions actually. It's the prefrontal cortex, so right up here at the front, and the limbic system, which is really deep inside our brain. It's part of what we call the old brain. A series of studies done in the early 2000s basically found that when we are exposed to ambiguous things like an ambiguous image or ambiguous scenery, the limbic system, particularly the amygdala, light up. Even when these participants were in a laboratory setting where there is no immediate danger, your brain is always going to respond over cautiously and overzealously to something it doesn't understand, Such as the unknowns of the future. But that feeling is also something that we can't suppress. It's automatic and for good reason. You know, we want that part of us that assesses danger to not be reliant on our judgment and to be able to act quickly, quick. And, you know, the reason that we have such an aversion to uncertainty is primarily rooted in the fact that we needed to in order to survive. When you face an unknown, you know your brain will immediately seek out as much information as it can, real or imagined, to fill the gaps. Our brain is wired to do this. You might know this by another term, which is catastrophizing. Your brain is trying to figure out what's every possible thing that's going to happen here. It's going to simulate outcomes, it's going to generate predictions. The problem is it actually has no idea what's going to happen. So it serves up all these situations, Some of them completely impossible, some of them may be more likely. We can't always discern or tell the difference between what is more likely and what is less likely. We are just receiving information from this very old, ancient part of our brain, and we're experiencing it as it comes. We're experiencing all the fear as it comes without being able to interrupt that and say, wait, how do I. Why do I think this? How do I know this is gonna happen? Oh, wait, I actually don't. So this brings me to a next point. A lot of our anxiety and our fears don't actually emerge from necessarily something having gone wrong in actuality, but from the question of what if? What if this happens? What if this even worse thing happens? What if the worst thing happens? This is because our brain will stay in this loop of providing us with potential outcomes that until it has some kind of resolution or closure, it doesn't want to switch off the alarm system until the reason for the alarm has been given meaning or it's identified what the problem was. And like I said in the past, that was useful. Now it's just plain old annoying. It's annoying. And your uncertainty is meant to feel that way. It's meant to feel annoying and awful and frustrating because again, it wants to keep you alert. It wants to grab your attention like a big shiny billboard or a big red stop sign. It wants you to be looking straight at it. It wants you to be directing its focus onto the thing you don't understand and that you're unsure about, so that you can provide it with a sense of closure. The thing is, if you give your anxiety and your fear of the unknown an answer, if you give yourself a reason for the uncertainty, more specifically, you give it a purpose, it will actually go away. We are going to discuss that more in a second, so just bear with me. But it's also important as well, before we move, understand that how you experience uncertainty in your 20s is not the same as how everyone else is going to experience this feeling. So you can't beat yourself up if you feel like you are struggling with it more than others. Psychologists in the early 90s, they identified what they called an intolerance for uncertainty spectrum. Basically, they found that where you sit in terms of your tolerance or intolerance for uncertainty will determine how much information you think you need before you make a decision. They discovered this spectrum almost by accident. They were actually trying to determine what personality traits caused anxiety. And in that research, what they kept realizing that was that a number of their participants all reported the same experience. This sense that they weren't necessarily scared about what was going to happen. They just really wanted to know what was going to happen. And these same people were the ones who would read ahead in books, even if they were excited by the plotline. They would read spoilers in the papers of movies that they were really eager to see, even though they knew it was going to kind of ruin the enjoyment. They would also, at times, make more impulsive decisions in their relationships when they felt something was fading or feeling off, not because they necessarily wanted the relationship to end, but because to them, and this kept coming up over and over again, a known bad outcome was better than an unknown own good outcome. These same individuals were also, surprise, surprise, more likely to have a diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder. Most people in society and in our world will score in the middle of this spectrum for an intolerance for uncertainty. But people who score higher, probably like you and I, tend to spend a lot more time ruminating on the future than being in the present moment. And they just can't help it. Someone with a high intolerance for uncertainty, they might make lists repeatedly. They plan out conversations in their head. They look at food menus well before they're going to a restaurant, just to make sure that they know that there's something they're going to like and they know what they're going to order. They triple check driving routes. They do all these things basically to calm this sense that if I don't know well, then something's going to go wrong. This cloud ahead of me, it can only be dangerous. If this is you, your 20s are naturally, and I'm sorry to say it, they are going to feel a lot more stressful, and they're going to feel harder than someone who can naturally go with the flow because you are constantly being bombarded with unknowns. And it's not you, it's this decade. I promise you, I'm going to give you some good news and some solutions in just a second. But I do want to talk about what can happen if we let uncertainty force us into a corner or force us into a place of inaction. Because uncertainty is so uncomfortable. It can be a very powerful maladaptive motivator, I. E. Something that motivates us to do things that are actually unique, against our interests. And it's really important that we are aware of that so that when we pause and are choosing whether to act, whether not to act, we can carefully examine whether this is in our best interest or just because we are scared of an outcome that is no more or less likely than any other outcome. The ways this shows up in our 20s could be a very long list, but I'm going to keep it brief. I don't want to scare you. I'm just going to touch on two of the big consequences of letting this feeling rule your life. Firstly, you accept what you don't deserve. And also, less than what you're capable of and less than what you've actually worked for. It's like what I said before. A known bad outcome over an unknown good outcome is what you prefer. And how that might look like is accepting the first grad offer because you're scared of not getting another, even though you don't really want the job. Accepting the first person who I don't know starts talking to you on hinge because you're scared that no one else will talk to you. And you're scared of what it will mean to be single after a certain age. You choose the first apartment you see, the first car you try out. You go to the same places on the same trips over and over again. Because an uncertain outcome, even if there is chance that it could be amazing, you don't want to take that risk. Bear in mind, I have no judgment on this. I have done this myself. All of that is basically anecdotal. All that is basically my lived experience, because I am someone who is in the same boat with you. The second consequence of a failure to embrace uncertainty in our 20s is that we actually don't act at all. We don't choose any job, we don't choose any partner, because what if it's not the right one? You know, in the first scenario, we chose the first thing. In this scenario, we don't choose anything at all. It probably won't surprise you that perfectionism and the fear of uncertainty are actually, in fact, sisters. They are. They're incredibly aligned. In fact, I personally think that perfectionism is basically just the fear of uncertainty with a different name. It's like a sub genre of the feeling. Perfectionism often disguises itself as ambition or high standards or great expectations for yourself, but underneath, it's usually just fear. It's just a fear of the unknown, the fear of what failure might bring, the fear of making the wrong move. It is actually less about doing things perfectly and more about trying to eliminate the possibility of regret. That's what makes it a close relative of uncertainty. They both come from a deep discomfort with not knowing how things will turn out. Think of perfectionism in this case as kind of like an emotional armor. If I just plan enough, if I delayed the decision long enough. If I do everything just right, then maybe, maybe I can avoid disappointment. But what you're really doing is just trying to outrun uncertainty. A 2022 study actually looked at a group of students to determine whether perfectionism meant people were less quick to act when it came to making a decision. They asked these students to complete a questionnaire which would essentially rank each student based on perfectionist tendencies. So the most perfectionist down to the least perfectionist. And then they asked those students to consider a bunch of would you rather questions? So would you rather, I don't know, this or that? Would you rather X or Y? There was about, I think, 50 of them, 50 scenarios. And they measured how long it took them to complete these entire range of scenarios. The top 25% of Perfectionist took the same amount of time combined to complete the exercise as the remaining 75% of students. They took so much longer because they were sat there considering, wanting to make the perfect choice. The thing is, opportunities don't always wait for us to make up our minds. Big decisions aren't always going to let you delay them. They will find the next person or they will disappear. A big part of our 20s is being able to say yes to that thing. That feels really scary. Yes, I'm gonna try. Yes, I don't know what's gonna happen. Let me just do it anyways. But when you are battling the fear of all fears, the fear of the unknown, it's gonna be a lot harder for you. Finally, I'm here to give you some good news. This is actually something you can change, and it's something that many people have proven to themselves that they are able to overcome. So I want to explain exactly how you can do this, including something you could literally do in the next five minutes if you wanted to that will allow you to better act on your dreams, on the opportunities, on the desires of our 20s. So we're going to talk about all of that and so much more after this short break. Hey, it's Gemma, and I have something really special to share. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a prerecorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time, face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh, reflect, and honestly just kind of be in it together, no matter where you are in the world. If you've ever hit play on an episode of the psychology of your 20s or mantra and thought, I really wish I could just talk to Gemma about this right now. This is your chance. We're diving into the messy, beautiful chaos of your 20s, your 30s, of life and beyond. And yes, you get to be right there with me. There's a live chat so we can talk in real time. And afterwards, I'm hosting a private VIP party, my inner circle, we would call it, where I'll be answering your questions and getting even more personal. It's happening August 12th at 7pm Pacific Time, or August 13th at 12pm if you're in Sydney or Australia. So mark your calendar, tell your friends, grab your ticket now at PAVE Live. I can't wait to see you there.
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Maria Hinojosa
When I became a journalist, I was the first Latina in the newsrooms where I worked. I'm Maria Hinojosa. I dreamt of having a place where voices that have been historically silent would instead be centered. For over 30 years now, Latino USA has been that place. This is Latino USA, the radio journal of news and cultura. As the longest running Latino news and culture show in the United States, Latino USA delivers the stories that truly matter to all of us. From sharp and deep analysis of the.
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Unknown Host
Most pressing news, they're creating this narrative that immigrants are criminals. This is about everyone. Freedom of speech. Nobody expected two popes from the American.
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Maria Hinojosa
Continent to stories about our cultures and our identities.
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Unknown Host
When you do get a trans character.
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Like Emilia Perez, the trans community is gonna push back on that colorism, all of these things that exist in Mexican.
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Maria Hinojosa
Culture and Latino culture. You'll hear from people like Congresswoman AOC.
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Unknown Host
I don't wanna give them my fear. I'm not gonna give them my fear.
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Maria Hinojosa
Listen to Latino USA as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever your podcasts.
- [29:12]
Unknown Host
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy. Truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in.
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I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.
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That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say it was rigged?
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Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they give you the answers. Right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they give you the answers and you still blew it.
- [29:51]
Don't miss Jeopardy. Legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of the Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:12]
Radhi Devlukia
Hey, I'm Radhi devlukia and I'm the host of a really good cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Dr. Julie Smith. Julie is a clinical psychologist, a best selling author, and one of the most trusted voices in mental health online. She was one of the first therapists to use TikTok as an educational platform and since then she has built a global audience of nearly 10 million people by making emotional support accessible, honest, and deeply human.
- [30:36]
Unknown Host
You know, resentment isn't something that the world owes you, it's that, you know, something that you need to work on. I would say with this stuff is look out for those feelings of resentment because they're a sign that there was some sort of boundary that wasn't held before. You know, that. That if you're not asserting your own desires or wishes or needs and then resenting your partner or your friend for filling the space for you, then it comes back to, okay, well, what do you want that's not this.
- [31:06]
Radhi Devlukia
Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:13]
Unknown Host
So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.
- [31:17]
There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [31:23]
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [31:26]
There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News, it's teddy Escapes Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become President?
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Capaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
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And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.
- [31:48]
The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [31:58]
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [32:08]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [32:11]
Unknown Host
Through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life.
- [32:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us.
- [32:27]
Unknown Host
Us.
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Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real Time each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:11]
Unknown Host
Okay, so we are back talking about uncertainty in our 20s, and luckily for us, we are actually not the first generation to feel this way, nor will we be the last. And that's good news because it means that a lot of people who have come up with some really amazing approaches to this feeling that helped get them through this period of discomfort and which will hopefully help you as well. The biggest thing we can do for our uncertainty in our 20s, and I've been hinting at this for the entire episode, is to basically assign it a purpose because that satisfies our deeper desire for a reason, a meeting, and kind of just a sense of why. Why is this happening? The purpose you assign to your uncertainty, it could be that you see this as a learning opportunity. It could be that you view uncertainty as a rite of passage. It could be that uncertainty is a sign that you're opening yourself up to new things which are scary. It could be a call to surrender and just to accept life as it is. It could be a real spiritual thing. It could be that uncertainty just makes for a really good story. And you value a good story, and you can't have one without uncertainty. Whatever it is, whatever makes uncertainty feel meaningful to you, hone in on that. Anytime you feel overwhelmed by the feeling, remind yourself, okay, but this has a purpose. This has a meaning. For me. I personally think of uncertainty as a sign that I am about to really grow as a person. And. And for lack of a better word, I'm about to level up. Every time I have ever felt scared, lost, uncertain, it has always been the beginning of something just over the horizon that I haven't been able to see yet. Like, it always signals to me that, like, something really big is about to come that way now, now that I know that's its purpose, I actually almost get excited when I'm feeling that way. I feel like I get kind of giddy. I'm, like, ready to be surprised, and I really feel like I'm in preparation mode for whatever is about to happen next. The reason this worked is because when we assign a role to our uncertainty, this actually gives us a cognitive framework through which we can accept it, through which we can just let it exist and actually focus on what we need to focus on. We give the annoying voice a job. It's like when a toddler. I don't know if you've been around kids a lot, but when like a toddler or a child is being really annoying. So you tell them they have to rearrange all the pens or they have to divide up all their dolls or pick up up something like rice, I don't know. You give them a job so you can get to work. You give the annoying voice someone else to talk to or something else to do. The second way to really confront your uncertainty is also to look for stories of people who didn't have it all figured out or whom dealt with supreme uncertainty and came out the other side, rather than just looking for people who seem like a natural A to B success story. The natural success stories are all we seem to see these days. So you would think that most people who you admire have never struggled the way that you do and that you have. That's false. It's a huge lie. It's a big myth. When you start collecting these stories, you will find that almost every single person who has made something of themselves has an uncertainty story. Dochi, for example, that's one I've recently added to my list. The woman of the hour. She posted a YouTube video back in 2020, only like five years ago, about how she got fired from her job. And in it she's like, tomorrow I'm just gonna door knock at a bunch of studios and just see if they will give me an internship. She just won a Grammy five years ago. She was completely unsure of where she was gonna end up. And she ended up in the right place. Cause she lent into it the founder of Spanx. She's another one on my list. She used to sell fax machines like door to door. Now she runs a billion dol. Stephen King, he's another one. His like draft for his book Carrie, which is now a cult classic, a favorite of so many. He literally threw that manuscript in the trash after it was rejected 30 times. And that book is a cultural icon. I even think of my mom like the. My mom is the one that often comes to mind for me. You know, she was kicked out of university because she got such poorly bad grades. They basically expelled her. And then she took a year off to travel. She did really know what she wanted to do. She came back, she did something different, and she graduated with a top job. And now she's like this incredibly powerful, successful girl boss. All these people and you have something very important in common. In their journey to success and to wherever they ended up, there were moments when they had absolutely no idea what was next and they just had to bet on themselves and they just had to trust that they were capable and. And once you start searching for these stories, you will see them everywhere. You will see them constantly, until one day you'll have your own version of this story, your own version of how you overcame uncertainty, how, in hindsight, the path is actually so clear the entire time. Another small thing you can do, and it's going to sound so minuscule and silly, you might be tempted to skip it. Please don't. I want you to make a playlist that you feel represents yourself, and play it whenever you feel uncomfortable or confused as a way to really just bring yourself back and center yourself. Even if it doesn't necessarily help you feel less uncertain, it can just help you with the general feelings of discomfort and strangeness that you may be having. And just as like a fun thing to do, a fun thing to do to remind yourself of who you are of. Of who you want to be of what your core values are. All through music. These songs reflect how you see yourself back at you. And that is a very special, familiar, beautiful feeling. There's actually this brilliant 2014 paper from a researcher in Texas that talks about how music contributes to the formation of our identity and can help us trust ourselves more because it acts as a touchstone when we feel challenged. It represents all the times we have previously overcome challenges, all the times we previously experienced joy. And the music we choose really does reflect our values and says something about how we see ourselves. And so when you're kind of externally lost and don't really know who you are and can't really find your way back, music is this, like, beautiful anchor. You know, I have a playlist like this. The playlist is called if Gemma Was a playlist, and I was listening to it literally the other day. And it has songs from 2016 all the Way up to last week. And it's really a beautiful way to see how I have transformed, to be able to categorically see different chapters in my life and what was happening during them. And the music brings back all those memories and also just to see how far I've come. And so it's something you can literally take 5 minutes do for yourself right now. It's A fun exercise, I promise you. It will help you ground yourself during this, like, crazy chaotic period. On a much larger scale, the biggest antidote for uncertainty is really just this. Just try something, try anything. Choose something that interests you, to get good at. And when that thing stops serving you, choose something else. We have to let go of this idea that, that every decision you make in life has to naturally flow into the next and the next and the next. And that you have to have some step by step plan that you can follow for your life. Your life is not a recipe. You're not making a cake, you're not cooking sourdough. It's a series of experiments that take you to different places that you didn't even know you were going to get to. And when you give yourself permission to just try, you really break this cycle of needing to know. You break this cycle of needing to have all the answers. And you move as well from that rumination spiral of am I doing the right thing? Is this the best choice to just knowing that if you're taking action and if you're doing something, you are making the right choice. Even imperfect action, even the wrong choice, is still a better choice than not doing anything at all. And it also gives you data, it gives you experience, it gives you stories. A question to really ask yourself as well. If you're kind of thinking, okay, that's great, but which direction should I choose? Especially if you're someone who has a lot of hobbies and interests and passions and ambitions. The question to ask yourself is just what would make me most disappointed if I didn't do this? What would I be most regretful around not doing in 20 years time? This mentally makes you kind of compute how much you have to lose by not acting. Rather than getting you stuck in this spiral of how much you have to lose by acting. It reminds me of this quote. You could take a million detours to your destination and still get there faster than someone who never got in the car. And that's the idea I really want to leave you with today. Uncertainty in our twenties is inevitable, but it's actually a really profound sign that you are expanding and you are growing and you are reaching new spaces you haven't yet experienced. That's a good thing. Like, congratulations. If you are feeling uncertain, that is such a beautiful sign. And I wish I could give you all the applause for just trying and pushing yourself into new places and spaces. I know it feels uncomfortable, but I promise you that this discomfort has a purpose that you cannot yet see. Lean into it assign it a purpose while you're waiting and just act do anything, even if it's small things. I think that that's a great solution for avoiding a worse discomfort of looking back at your life and realizing that you never did anything because you were scared of the unknown. When the unknown is something that we always have to exist side by side with and the only way to escape the unknown is to create a known is to create a reality that you do really enj and that works for you and the only way you can do that is through action. So that's a rather simple message, but also deeply complex message if you think about it. To end the episode with I just hope that it brings you a sense of comfort that you're not the only one going through it and that I totally know it's going to work out for you. It's totally going to work out for you. I know that I can give you that promise right now. So thank you so much for listening. If you have made it this far, let's leave a little emoji in the comments below that represents how you're feeling about your life, how uncertainty feels in your body right now. Just so I know if you've made it this far. If you're one of the loyal listeners, make sure that you are following along or subscribed wherever you are listening on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple, whatever one and give us a five star review if you feel called to do so. It really does help the show grow and reach new audiences and new fantastic, wonderful 20 somethings and older. Also make sure you're following us on Instagram at thatpsychology podcast if you want to be part of future episodes. If you want to DM me Episode Suggestions if you have questions, dilemmas, you may even be able to be featured in an episode just like this one. So follow me over there and until next time, stay safe. Be kind, be gentle to yourself, especially in the face of uncertainty. We will talk Very very.
- [45:26]
Maria Hinojosa
When I became a journalist, I was the first Latina in the newsrooms where I worked. I'm Maria Hinojosa. I dreamt of having a place where voices that have been historically sidelined would instead be centered. For over 30 years now, Latino USA has been that place. This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and Cultura. As the longest running Latino news and culture show in the United States, Latino USA delivers the stories that that truly matter to all of us. From sharp and deep analysis of the.
- [45:57]
Unknown Host
Most pressing news, they're creating this narrative that immigrants are Criminals. This is about everyone's freedom of speech. Nobody expected two popes from the American.
- [46:08]
Maria Hinojosa
Continent to stories about our cultures and our identities.
- [46:12]
Unknown Host
When you do get a trans character.
- [46:13]
Like Emilia Perez, the trans community is going to push back on that colorism. All of these things like exist in Mexican culture and Latino culture.
- [46:21]
Maria Hinojosa
You'll hear from people like Congresswoman Aoc.
- [46:24]
Unknown Host
I don't want to give them my fear. I'm not going to give them my fear.
- [46:27]
Maria Hinojosa
Listen to Latino USA as part of the Mikeultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:39]
Unknown Host
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy. Truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in.
- [47:01]
I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.
- [47:04]
That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it, it was rigged?
- [47:08]
Yeah. Ever since I was first on, people are like, they give you the answers. Right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they give you the answers and you still blew it.
- [47:18]
Don't miss Jeopardy Legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of the Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [47:39]
Radhi Devlukia
Hey, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I'm the host of a really good cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Dr. Julie Smith. Julie is a clinical psychologist, a best selling author, and one of the most trusted voices in mental health online. She was one of the first therapists to use TikTok as an educational platform and since then she has built a global audience of nearly 10 million people by making emotional support accessible, honest and deeply human.
- [48:03]
Unknown Host
You know, resentment isn't something that the world owes you, it's that, you know, something that you need to work on. I would say with this stuff is look out for those feelings of resentment because they're a sign that there was some sort of boundary that wasn't held before. You know that that if you're not asserting your own desires or wishes or needs and then resenting your partner or your friend for filling the space for you, then it comes back to, okay, well what do you want that's not there?
- [48:33]
Radhi Devlukia
Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [48:41]
Unknown Host
Through something like that is a traumatic experience. But it's also not the end of your life.
- [48:47]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Trittate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space.
- [49:27]
Unknown Host
So.
- [49:27]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:41]
Unknown Host
So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.
- [49:45]
There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [49:51]
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [49:54]
There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News, it's teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?
- [50:09]
Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
- [50:13]
And he's not the only Kennedy to.
- [50:15]
Survive a scandal the Kennedys have lived through disgrace, race affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [50:27]
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. Are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed I'm Dr. Joy.
- [51:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Hardin Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel.
- [51:23]
Unknown Host
If flying makes you anxious.
- [51:25]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal Barnett.
- [51:30]
Unknown Host
And I discuss flight anxiety. What is not normal is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want want to do the things that you were meant to do.
- [51:40]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [51:46]
Unknown Host
From tips for healthy living to the latest medical breakthroughs, WebMD's Health Discovered podcast keeps you up to date on today's most important health issues. Through in depth conversations with experts from across the healthcare community, WebMD reveals how today's health news will impact your life tomorrow.
- [52:04]
It's not that people don't know that exercise is healthy. It's just that people don't know why it's healthy. And we're struggling to try to help people help themselves and each other.
- [52:12]
Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors, drivers of sexual violence, rewrite the rules on healing, support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leah Tritate. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:50]
Unknown Host
Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land Jeopardy truthers believe in?
- [53:07]
I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right, they gave you the answers and you still blew it.
- [53:12]
The Puzzler listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [53:21]
This is an iHeart podcast.